How to Build a High-Performing Sales Team in the Trades with Ryan Groth | Ep 104

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Phil Risher. And on today's episode, we're diving into how to build a high performing sales team in the trades with Ryan Groff. Thanks so much for joining us today, man.

Thanks for having me, Phil. Glad to be here.

Yeah, for sure. So Ryan is the founder and CEO of stg, which is Sales Transformation Group, which is a sales coaching and training company serving trades and home service contractors. STG helps growing businesses build structured, high performing and scalable sales organizations. Ryan brings a competitive athlete's mindset to sales, viewing it as both art and science, helping owners transition from reactive to data driven sales leadership. I was very, very excited for this because most of you that listen to this show need to hear this episode because I preach it. We do marketing and it's always like the sales part is the missing piece. It's the secret sauce. So Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about how you got even into this and learned about the trades and sales?

Yeah. So super thankful the way I got into this. Coming out of baseball. I played Division 1 and then professional baseball with the Angels organization and I was like, super locked in on that. Right? No plan B. Trying to be the best you can make as far as you can. But, you know, things happen. My career ended, I was released, and then I was like, all right, what do I do next? I was ready to figure out how to make money and I turned the page, hung up the spikes, and, you know, got married. Before I had to figure out the money part, I was like, all right, I got to get married, want to have a family. Now I got to make money. So I had explored some sales jobs and I was actually working with a concrete restoration company that was doing like all the deficiencies on condominiums in South Florida. So, like there's a million of them, right? So they have spalling that happens from saltwater to the rebar and then it loosens up the concrete. And so there's just a ton of high margins, you know, repair work that you can do on in South Florida. So I was working for this company thinking, I'm going to go sell and have something I can drive forward and impact my career. But there was no path for me as a 27 year old who's talented, hungry, ready to take over the world and feed my family. There was no path at this company for me to succeed. And there was no sales process, no sales training, no no employment agreement, no comp package. I mean, it was just all handshake, like, trust us Brother, we're going to figure this out. And it was like, you know, three, three weeks later I'm managing projects, another two weeks later I'm putting concrete on the wall. And he's like, you need to know all this before you sell it. I'm like, dude, I gotta figure this out. I'm not gonna, I gotta make money for my kids. This ain't working.

Yeah.

Well, I later found out that that's very common in the trades. It's very common that there's not a path for people to have a professional sales career there. Until I met one of the most successful and smartest business guys in my area and he became my mentor. Very amazing guy and he actually built a sales management CRM system for pipeline management and managing salespeople for his own business. Very innovative. While combining the sales training of a franchise of a local sales training franchise. Well, a global one, but he had a local, there's a local guy. So I came in after have Lev left that situation and I got to spend four and a half years in this environment where I was being trained by that sales trainer and then selling the CRM outside or from the inside of what later became a $50 million, then a hundred million dollar commercial service and reroof company. So think like that's all brand, that's all relationships, that's not bid work, that's not like new con work, that's all like relationship based brand marketing service. And it required a set of sales best practices to get them to that scale. So what I got to do is sell the CRM that we built out of there and then I got to start to incorporate some of those sales training best practices. Now I later rewrote the whole sales training in a way that wasn't going to conflict and be copyright issues in a way that was for the trades. That was my first draft. It was called the stairway to victory is what I was. So while I was an employment employee of this company, driving the CRM business out of this large roofing company, I started combining the sales training. And I later found as I read the book Good the Great by Jim Collins, I found that the technology piece the that I was selling was only an accelerator of what was already in place. It was like great companies had tech that was accelerating the discipline, the best practices, the right people, the right seat, the right, the disciplined thought followed by disciplined action. It only accelerated that. And if they prod in technology and it wasn't being utilized well, it only exposed the fact that they didn't. They did not have disciplined thought followed by disciplined action and the right people in the right seat. So I found later, as I'm selling into these contracting businesses, that a lot of contracting businesses don't really have true sales type people in the sales type role doing the sales type things to drive business the way that I was seeing it in this roofing company and other good companies. So I had a really great contrast, a laboratory and a set of tools to work with to go make an impact. So after doing that for some time, I found that coaching was really my vision, my passion. And. And I just found a ton of fulfillment in it. And so later it just became a point after doing that hundreds of times, not necessarily fully hundreds of times, probably like 30 on sites with different companies that I had sold. And a lot it was like, hey, I think this is what I want to do. So we ended our relationship wonderfully. I started STG in 2018 and it's been, it's been off to the races, man. So.

Yeah, that's sick. So what you could you tell us, can you tell us a little bit about like, okay, the people listen to this are like 1 to 10 million. Maybe they have a salesperson which, you know, not really defined role or some semblance of this. Like, what would you come in and like coach them on doing or recommend that they do?

Sure, yeah. So the step one, I look at some data and see like what they've done so far. Like, cool. Like, how much have they sold? What's revenue been? Like, what are your products and services? What are you selling? Are you selling what you want to sell? Who's your ideal client, you know, and let's focus on like what's worked well. Great. This is, it's residential home repair and replacement. Great. Whatever that is.

Yeah.

This is the type of homeowner. Here's our average ticket. Here's our conversion ratio. Let's just look at this. Let's look at what we're dealing with here. Then I would evaluate their personnel using a third party sales assessment that we use that helps us understand where they stack up from a sales competency standpoint. How far away are they from elite? How coachable are they? What's the scope of work to get their sales competencies up? A lot of that is motivation. They're figured out. Factor their drive, their desire, their will. A lot of that is mindset. Their belief systems. Are they supportive beliefs or sabotaging beliefs that are gonna enable them to sell well or is it gonna impact them negatively and inhibit them from selling. Well, a lot of those beliefs they don't even know they have. So we're like exposing those and addressing them. And then we're also teaching them what are some of the core, like tactical competencies that they need to deliver on. So we assess them, we provide a, we work with them on a sales plan. So for example, if we want to go from 1 million to 1.8 million right over these next 12 months, what are the goals that we need to set and what are the KPIs that we need to put in place that would make us hitting that goal, an inevitable reality? So then let's actually have a visible, structured way of going about it. I don't know what CRMs they're using, but I would say the CRMs need to have a visible goal for functionality, to show, hey, hey, here's how we're doing against our goals. And then there would need to be. So those are some basic things.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And then we would talk about a sales process. Like, what is the sales process? Like, that's is it. Oh, lead comes in, go give him a quote. Awesome. No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what are the milestones that you as a salesperson are trying to get the prospect to walk through that will support the competencies that we know will make you elite. Some of those competencies would be prospecting effectively and hunting would be relationship building, would be consultative selling. So selling of value, qualifying well, presenting in the right context, closing. These are some competencies that we want them to be great at. Well, does the sales process that we want to establish enable them to do those? Well, we implement that. So now they're like, cool, I have a way of selling. I have a way that I go about every deal and I know it works. So I think that if they're bought into that and they see the future now, they're going to be able to have a consistent, predictable way of taking everybody through a process. You have to train them on it, got to coach them on it. They got to get good at it, they got to role play it. But the good news is there's some power in using that. And now they're like, okay, cool. I go about every prospect the same way. I'm trying to be consistent. Just like athletes are, Are they fundamentally sound with their, with their mechanics? Are they fundamentally sound with how they approach every situation? That's essentially what we're doing with sales is giving them the best practices. Obviously make it yours, but if you stick to these primary fundamentals, you will be, you'll be successful. And those are some of the base, the core things we do. There's more but like that's especially on the management side, like pipeline reviews, one on ones, ride alongs, coaching, recruiting, onboarding, playbooks, learning and enablement, things like that. But if you have those at the start, you're going to see. Okay, cool. I've transformed Phil from this order taker to. He's a, he's a sales guy. Like this guy knows what he's doing. He's getting better at it. His numbers are reflecting it. He's got a higher deal size, a higher closing ratio, a shorter sales cycle. Have better. Everything's getting better now. I can spend more money on leads because I got more money coming in. I can get more brand going and then I could hire more people to go do that too and fill up our backlog with great jobs.

Yeah. I think the hardest thing for specifically 1 to 10 million is that a lot of times the people are technicians prior and they've never like ran a full sales team. So it's like, how do I build out this professional sales arm? Like what you're saying with all this stuff when they've never done it or had someone to come alongside them and train them on how to do it. It's a huge opportunity for both the business and for you because they all need this thing.

Yeah.

What would you say? Like someone has two salespeople, they're kind of like they've been there for 10 years. You know, they're the things that you see, you know, like the old school guys, they don't really have numbers that they track them on and they're like, I'm stuck, you know, at $5 million, whatever. Like, I'm sure you've seen this exact avatar that I'm talking about all the time. Yeah. So when you, how do you go in and get them unstuck and get the new salespeople bought in or do they bring in new salespeople or what?

Like, yeah, you're, you're probably going to lose one of them or both of them. That's probably the reality because they're stuck in their habits. Like, habits got to be formed and changed over time. And what I would say is like, the good news is that if you can, if you have a process and you can train well, then you can onboard new talent that will have new standards. But you know, there are a lot of times with these people who have been like, man, I'VE been waiting for this for so long. I really like wanted to get trained. I'd never really been given these types of tools and that ends up working out well. So it depends. I would just say start the transformation. See who wants to stick around with the new direction and go from there.

Okay, cool. I, I think a lot of times it's, it's comfortable that you have these guys there, but there's no numbers to hold them accountable for no goals. And then it's just like you're just kind of like, I hope we hit our numbers. Hopefully they make their commission.

Yeah. A lot of times like they didn't even have like, not all the time, but in some cases they don't even have like commission like plans that give them like any desired future, like growth.

Yeah.

So we do a lot of goal setting with the sales reps themselves and say, cool, what do you want? Why we do we do something called the seven layer why? And that seven layer why Often gets them some, sometimes gets them emotional. Like oh man, I didn't even think about that. That's why I'm going to bed and getting up out of bed every day and getting after it. Like why? So we want them to be locked in and we want them to be able to make edits in their life to then therefore become somebody different, to, to have different results. And we know that that's, that's, that's, you know, it's, it's gonna, they have to become somebody different to get different results. They have to grow, change. So yeah, we try that, you know, and sometimes it does, you know, doesn't really work. Let's just, I mean it just, yeah, sometimes people don't want to do that. They're just super comfortable. But, but the ones that do, it's pretty cool. And then they're like awesome. We have a new direction, we have some change, we have some new habits, we have some new standards. And then new talent can come in that you're excited to bring on because there is that change in the culture and change in the norm and then they don't even know any different because they're new.

Yeah. So let's say someone is, has a couple of salespeople or they're building a sales team. What are the numbers that they should be looking at? Like average ticket, close rate. It was like the big two. Is there anything else that's like you.

Should total sales, self generated leads. That's another one. We believe that everybody should be asking for referrals and generating referrals from centers of influence and people who can influence people to buy. So networking and such, going to events. In some cases it's door knocking. In some industries, in some markets we teach that to knock the neighborhood as well. So self generated leads, total sales, average ticket closing rate. I do really like selling cycle depending on the space, like higher ticket or commercial businesses. We do a lot with you're not doing one call closes on replacement jobs. And so typically there's a, a number there. So we like to track that.

Okay, cool. And then you would build like a, like a scorecard or something and it would have all their numbers. Is this something you look at weekly with the, with the, with your, your team member? And then is your compensation based off all those numbers or what's the best practices for those things?

Yeah, I mean you want to definitely monitor them and update them weekly. You're probably looking at monthly in terms of seeing like those KPIs for sure. And then you know, sales meetings are going to look like very pipeline focused and then there's deeper accountability as well with one on ones if they're doing it right. I think compensation in many cases will be, you know, some sort of base or no base commission. And then we have spiffs that we encourage that will maybe incentivize different types of behavior that isn't being solved through just the commission plan. So that could be something we do by quarter. We just look at their current situation and say all right, let's incorporate this spiff or that depending on what we're trying to change and motivate. Yeah.

So it sounds like if someone has a sales leader you can come alongside them. But a lot of these companies, they don't really have a full on sales leader. It's usually the business owner that's kind of trying to do it, but they don't have the person. And it sounds like you help a lot with that. It's like each situation is a little different but we have to understand what you're doing and what you want to get out of it and then hold people accountable. And you can help with that.

Yeah, we, we either work with their sales leader in the supportive fashion or and train them or we actually do it in a fractional way depending on, you know, that's more expensive. It's, it's. But it's like you're not paying, you know, for, for a full time employee and you know, things that come with that. So.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I want to dive into the process piece because a lot of people have Their process. Right. Like that they are the number one salesperson. Just do this thing. But like, to train someone on this, there's got to be some foundational pieces that I would imagine is like, okay, when you build out a process, you got to do this, this, and this. Is there something that you can coach people on or educate them on that?

Yeah. So we. We have some foundational mindset things. So we talk about, like, expert Persona, you know, equal business stature, the gracefully assertive alpha dog, you know, abundance mindset. You know, we talk about that first. So we have to have like the right mindset going into sales opportunities, because if you're not in the right state of mind and you have a bit of like a desperation about you or a subservient selling posture, then you're gonna not navigate the sales process that we teach very effectively. So we teach more of, like an equal business stature type of Persona so that they're not afraid to ask tough questions or challenge and things like that that the best salespeople are good at. If not, you're just an order taker, you're just an estimator. Like salespeople, Sales professionals are not just order takers and just, you know, giving you a number. So with all that said, we teach something called baseline selling. So we actually take debate, a baseball diamond, and we lay out milestones across the base paths. And so we have a well defined set of milestones across every base path that if you do those and you understand why you do those and you're trained on those and you can do it well, it will increase everything. Everything will go up. So basically from home to. I don't know if you want me to get into all of the steps.

Definitely, yeah. I'm curious because I think for people to conceptualize their sales process and how they build it, it's going to be helpful because right now I already know. It's like, I go out, I'm the expert, so I can jib, jab, and like, talk through stuff and answer their questions. And they just want to buy because I'm so knowledgeable. And then I get another salesperson in and like, hopefully they can sell, but they just default to me for the, you know, that whole thing. I'm trying to give a framework so that it lands.

Yeah. So. So basically, so Phil would be like, home the first. Let's just say most of your companies have marketing generated leads and then their calls are booked for them, right? I'm guessing.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

So home the first would be the calls generated or it could be an outbound motion. But most, in most cases call generated for the company schedule is appointments been scheduled for them. I like to have them send an FAQ video like a piece of media content that they can consume that separates them and sets them apart. So that would be composed of several things. Could be what the process is, what to expect. Just some things that make you guys different to kind of set you apart and show that you guys are the best in the market and they're the best for them. I do have a, I do, I'm a big fan. Especially if you're doing some high ticket stuff where the rep or the tech calls and just does a confirmation call, tries to ensure both homeowner parties are there. Maybe asks a couple deeper questions so that there's just like man the experts on the other end of the phone. I don't need to call anybody else. So I just like to kind of play defense and get less calls and competitors from. With competitors by doing a few things in advance. FAQ videos, tech. So we do that. Then they're at, then they're on first base. On first basis you're at the home. Now some things that you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's some variables that we can look at depending on the company. If it's like a break fix model, like, like hey, it's a plumbing issue, leak great, or garage door issue, great. But there's always like this. I wanna like there's more to sell, there's more scope, there's more of an upsell. So there's a, there could be a different lateral like, sorry a linear motion of this sales process depending on the sales model. So does that make sense? We kind of need to tailor it.

Yeah. So if your technician's going out on site, something's broken and then they're going to upsell from there, then that's one thing. But if they're like here's a replacement and here's my comfort consultant come out and it's just like straight sale. That's what you're referring to.

That's kind of where I'm going. Right. So you could go fix the thing. But then while you're saying I'm fixing it, you find all this other stuff and then you go sell that. Right. There's. And then there's so. Or there's like we already know that I'm trying to replace this thing and then that's like a $20,000 replacement. You're already going into it with that mode. Got it. So all that said, you. You go in, you build some rapport. And rapport is something that most technicians don't find themselves being great at. So we teach on that and have best practices on building a rapport. We want to teach them about sales resistance, so how to keep sales resistance low and understand when there is, like, a resistance from the prospect. So we even teach them about that and how you can't sell into that or you can't match resistance with resistance. You got to lower it. And then. So we teach that, and then we talk about setting an agenda. So setting an agenda is you saying, I'm driving this thing, I'm in control, and you should trust me. I'm an expert. Here's what we're going to do, and I'm going to ask you a series of questions so I can be super helpful to you. Is that okay? Great. And at the end of that, you know, it'll lead to a decision of what you want to do. And my goal is to help you with that. Sound good? Yes. So then we would get in.

Quick question. Is the resistance? Like, hey, I'm only going to have you guys here to fix my water heater, and I don't want to do anything else or something like that.

Yeah, it could be like, hey, like, I don't want you to sell me anything. Hey, like, I don't have much time for you. Like, Got it. Like, stuff that's. And obviously before the call, you could set good expectations, and that's the idea. But in most cases, they're there. And if you're like a pleasant human being and you're smiling and you care and you're asking them questions, that's not. It's. It's gonna be good. You're gonna, you know, you're gonna be in a good spot.

So the resistance. Get over the resistance, then, hey, no worries. The first step that I usually do, and this is how it's going to go, I go here, I do this checklist. I do this thing and this thing, and then we'll come back and da, da, da, da. So you set the agenda.

Set the agenda. And then a milestone I'd like to teach is the current agitated state. So what is that current agitated state? It's your job to find out. So ask questions about what's going on. Why do they call you? What's the real issue? Get to the. To the pain. Right. And then I do want them to know and find out the desired state. So they're telling you what the Gap is. So you see me in this camera frame, right?

Yeah.

I'm taking this current agitated state is starting here. And then when I find out the desired state, I'm out here. Right. Well, when the sales professional has found that they've created a frame, guess who, guess who's on the other side of the frame?

Me.

I'm the guy who can help you go from here. Right. So you've, you have done a good job understanding that. That we also want to know their compelling reason to fix that. Like what's their real compelling reason? Why do they actually want to do that? So I like to have them hang out in the hot tub of pain. This agitated state, this desired state. And then the compelling reason to fix it. It's got to be an emotional thing. And we got to get down to the frustrations. How upset they are, disappointed, worried, angry, concerned. How anxious they are, how all that stuff, definitely that sells, that sells value. That makes you different. And guess what happens when the prospect is being asked questions that get that out of them. Are they annoyed? No, they're understood. They feel cared for, they feel heard. That is actually what happens. So you sales reps are like, I don't want to ask those questions. Like, dude, well, you don't want to sell because you are caring so much. When you do that, you're asking questions that they've never been asked before. And people are not just going to.

Come up to you and tell you all their problems. Like, that's just weird. So when you ask the question, it opens the door for them to then tell you all the issues.

Yep. Yeah. And then you can have a lot of leverageable ammunition and data points into your sale, right into when you're making the sale. So you do that. There's another secret step that I'll leave out.

Yeah, you're good. Gotta join the school community.

Yeah, they join my school community for that. So I'll leave out. And then, and then from there there's a, there's a really solid like amount of tension and like, hey, there's a gap here. What we do want to do from there is just make sure that they have the ability to buy. So I have, I have a several more steps that's like more of a checklist. Like, like qualify and then you go in, boom. Let's just find the issue, let's look at the issue, let's find the scope, let's write to get, let's write up an estimate, let's do an on the spot presentation and let's close Some business and solve some problems. So I have, I have other steps I just left out. So join us and you'll learn. But this skill is not something that is downloaded like Neo on the Matrix in like one, you know, session. Like this typically takes some reinforcement. But when somebody who has these skills and they've become buttery, velvety consistent, like man, can you just bring a lot of value? And it's like, it's pretty powerful. So we've seen some amazing results over the years of techs and companies or sales reps and companies follow this and buy into it and then seen consistent, predictable revenue come in every day.

Yeah, I mean, I can, I can imagine. I think a lot of business owners, they don't do ride alongs. They don't know what their salespeople are saying and they wonder why it's not good. And it's like, I would recommend like turn on voice memos, have your salespeople send you one of their sales calls recorded or something like that, and then just see what they say because you're probably going to be cringing and. Because there's no process and everyone has their own way of doing it. But that's not. Doesn't mean it's the best way. And to your point, you build a process and then you get the right people in there with the right process and you coach them and you hold them accountable and how can you not grow your business?

Exactly. That's, that's what we do at stg. That's our business right there.

Yeah. So good. I do want to ask you about objection handling just to get, you know, everyone wants to ask the sales guy about objection handling, but when you know, you get the price objection. Well, maybe you've distilled it down to several objections, but I think it's like price. Gotta talk to my spouse or someone else, the decision maker right now is not the time or something. Are there common objections that you hear and then common ways.

The price is probably the biggest one, you know, that are that when we coach them that they're saying yes. So a couple things about that. So we have a framework that we teach. So the first framework is the rule of triple elimination. Is it, you know, the product? No. No. When they say they need to think about it.

Right.

I don't know. Right. They gotta think about it. Great. No problem. Totally understand. Big decision here. Question for you. Can I ask you that? Yes. Is it the product and service? No. That looks really good. You guys are great. You know, is it the. Okay, is it the Price. Yes, it's definitely the price. It's way more than I thought. Okay, gotcha. Thanks for sharing that. So then we talk about that. Now we've identified the objection. It's price. It could be other things, but let's just say it's price. Then we have a framework called accscsc. So you acknowledge, and then you ask permission to have a conversation about consequences of not doing it with you. So consequential conversations. And then we solve it again and close it. That's SDSC at the end. However, when you're doing this, you have to know value. So you know. So selling value is basically when. It's. When you're good at selling value is that when that person you're selling to, they believe that they cannot get what you're offering anywhere else but with you. So if you think about what's valuable, it's like, it's something that's rare. It's something that you can only get one of, or it's not like there's not very many of them. Right. That's why it's valuable. So you have to be able to sell what you sell in a way that has the prospect believing that, man, I can't get this anywhere but with you. So whenever you're not lying, like, relying on price and you're trying to sell value, you have to know what that is. So then therefore, when you talk about consequences of the price objection, those consequences versus what you offer have to be so far apart to make the pain of that feel not like, you know, like logical sense for them to move forward with you. Right. So whether it's your warranty, whether it's your service, and then the biggest one is the tech. The sales rep is like, you're getting me. So they gotta get them to believe that, like, your expertise is what they're gonna get. The service. Right?

Yes.

I think other cool parts are like the core values of the business. The brand itself has. Has to represent something so that they feel the brand, the power of the brand. It takes a lot to get all that in. But you can compress all that in your presentation in a way where people are like, oh, yeah, you guys are clearly different. But what the sales rep has to be able to do is go to the consequence of that. So that can sound like this. Hey, Phil, good. Quick question. If somebody's like, cheaper, but for example, they do something way cheaper, do you know how they're able to be cheaper? And any. Any, you know, any ideas of how they're able to Be so cheap.

Maybe they buy their equipment somewhere else or something.

Okay. Okay. Any other, any other ideas?

I mean, maybe they subcontract the workout.

Okay, that could be a couple of thoughts. Yeah. So love to ask you some questions around that. Like if they bought their equipment, equipment for somebody else, I mean, look like maybe it's the same equipment. All right, now let's talk about they subcontract. What would be, like, what would happen if, like what. What could happen if they subcontract a crew that, you know, doesn't necessarily have the, the craftsmanship or the skill and they're working on your home and there's, you know, what could be potentially like cheaper labor and less experienced labor and poor craftsmanship on this project? What could happen?

Yeah, well, I guess it could break. Yeah, it could break. It could not work. It could not be under warranty. It could. Some of those things probably.

Sure. And oftentimes if they are cheaper, they probably don't have the warranty or the same quality of warranty. And then many companies don't stay around that long and they don't answer their phone. So like, let's pretend you go cheaper. There's, there's some sort of warranty that's not as good as ours. The workmanship isn't good. And then you need to call them back if something's not working right. So you may be saving a couple grand. But then what happens if they're not responding? What is that? What's. What would happen?

I would be very frustrated and mad.

And then financially, what would happen?

I would have, I would probably have to buy it again or spend more money, right?

Yeah. So, you know, we may be a little bit more expensive, but what are you getting with us? You're getting, you're getting a great warranty. You've seen the reviews, You've seen, you know, I'm looking me dead in the eye, got my cell phone number. We're going to deliver and you're going to have peace of mind. So ultimately you're not having the risk of having to pay for our service again, which happens a lot, unfortunately.

Yeah. I like it. I love it. I love it. Not just like it.

So it's like consequence based questions. I'm more question based sales guy than like, I teach, like just try to like push through and mow them down. There's a time and place to do that. But like, if we could teach a sales rep, a tech how to just ask questions about what would happen, it's like pretty logical. What would what the solution is, you know, so.

And it takes the combative nature out of it and it. And, and if you built a rapport up until that point, it almost seems like you're still asking them questions and coaching them through selling themselves on you, but not actually doing it, which is beautiful.

I love it. That's definitely the goal here. I mean, what I just did is hard for the average contracting technician to do. I made it look easy cause I do it all the time. But like the goal is if they could be half that good, they're going to sell more.

Yeah.

Right. And that's.

Yeah, for sure. Well, Ryan, man, this has been great. I think this is one of the most action packed episodes that we've done and I appreciate you just like laying it all out there and, and, and walking people through this. I hope that people got value from this. So where should people go to to learn more about sdg? You. We mentioned we dropped your school community, but anything else that they should do?

Yeah, check out the school community. I mean, we have some free sales training content in there and then, you know, you can chat with us. I even have an owner call that you can hop on that. I coach owners in a small group. So you're able to hop onto that. What else? Yeah, I mean you could find me on LinkedIn and Instagram. Just look up Ryan Groth and like, you know, I'm smiling. You see my face. And if you go to salestransformation group.com you can also find us. You might be catching me in the middle of a website rebuild. A website's honestly garbage. It's been like SEO has not been my thing for years. I've now I need to put some energy into it. So my website's okay. There's a lot more behind it than I. Even our website shows and then our YouTube's pretty good. You know, you can see some podcasting and stuff. There's have. I have a bunch of content on YouTube. So yeah, check us out and hit us. Awesome.

Awesome. Well, thanks, brother. It's good to get to learn more about your business and stuff and look forward to continue the conversation.

Yeah, appreciate that, Phil. Appreciate you, man.

Yeah, man.