#255 Access to Sustainable Energy Investments

Hey everyone. I'm extremely excited to talk to our next guest. This is Andrew McLean. He has 25 years in the entrepreneurial space as well as investment space. I mean, he has ton of experience in all sorts of various things. I'm almost excited because he's the creator, host and executive producer of something called the Eco Capitalist. It's the first green business TV series which aired on cnbc. It was both shown globally, was filmed on seven continents. All of these things really an amazing cool experience for him and what he's built here. He's also the executive producer of the first climate change documentary permitted access to US researchers in Antarctica. We're going to find out about these things and really what we're here for is that he's involved with this company, Invest Green. I mean, again, there's so much to what he's done, his history. Want to talk about Invest Green? Want to talk about his passion and his mission. I'm excited to talk to him today. Andrew, how are you?

I'm great, Peter, thank you so much for having me.

I'm excited to talk to you. I mean, we can go through history forever. I mean, I could have gone with that. This bio is like it's longer than probably anything else out there that I've seen, which means that you have so much experience in this space. But can you tell people today what.

Is Invest Green and then we can.

Go back into your story.

Sure. Well, I think that first of all, my bio is secondary to the team members who we have Invest Green. I consider myself to be, in terms of the green investment sector, the rookie of our team. And we've also got a number of people from, you know, the very pinnacle of mainstream finance who are part of Invest Green as well. So basically what Invest Green has done is assembled a team of experts in the space who have deep knowledge of the sustainable investing institutional grade knowledge. And we've brought in members of the mainstream investment community at the highest possible level. And our mission is to provide, you know, a place that you can go to as a retail investor, learn and perhaps have opportunities made available to you. But that's basically, you know, what we're doing. Everybody is involved in this, has had, you know, we've all had repeated success in either entrepreneurially or in corporate America in C suites of the some of the largest companies. So we're all doing this because we're passionate about it and we think that it's never been more important to engage and inform retail investors so they can be part of this, you know, for.

Those who are listening to this, retail, we don't always use that term retail investor. So retail investors typically, just so people know are, you know, pretty much people like you and me, people who are high net worth individuals, people who are passionate about something, who want to put our income to good use, want to make good smart investments, want to find good opportunities and access to these type of things. And we're usually not those people at the institutional level who are kind of working at a huge level, just like the hard working physician like you and me, who are trying to find good opportunities and sometimes these opportunities aren't always available.

Right.

I mean we don't even have access. And so you're actually one of the groups that, one of the few that I know of personally that allows again physicians, high net worth individuals to get access to some of these deals because these are usually done in, at scale in a different place. And you kind of mentioned your mission beyond that. But like what gets you so excited about I guess the space to begin with. I mean I'd love to hear more about like what gets you more excited.

About the future of sustainable energy?

What are the parts that you focus on specifically there? I mean, what gets you up in the morning?

Great, great and great point Peter, about retail investors. And of course that's sort of the nomenclature that we use when you're in the institutional space. But to your point, that's, you know, that's probably most salient these types of investment opportunities and the team that we have or the knowledge is never usually available to retail investors. Right. To accredited investors, to physicians who are looking for an opportunity to deploy that portion of their investment portfolio that suitable for venture capital in a green or sustainable fashion. You know, usually there are the opportunities are limited or that by the time you can participate the company's already gone public and. Or it's an open AI situation where they're turning down $100 billion. Right. And there's no one can get in. It's a closed opportunity. Right. So I think that's certainly something that is you need to invest dark green and that if you go to our site, I mean it's a democratized access to these investments. That's what we're doing. And I think but if you look at the amount of capital that's available that the physicians accredited retail investors have at their disposal, it's greater than the money that is being sourced for deals from traditional institutions and VCs and things of this nature. And I think that we need to connect with that audience because they're interested and they deserve quality. Right? They deserve quality, especially somebody that's worked so hard to be a physician, right. And is got that business, all that education. I think those are people who will appreciate the sort of level of detail and knowledge that we can share with them. And so that's one reason we're very excited about talking to you and your community. But what is happening right now, the biggest opportunity by far in this sector since the inception of sustainable or green investing is without any doubt the rise of the need for electricity for data centers. And those data centers have two sort of tasks. The billions and billions of dollars are being assigned to this. But basically AI is going to require massive amounts of data centers, massive electricity, crypto as well. So you've got two of these explosive trends right, in the investment sector that the key to their success is energy, and specifically renewable energy. And right now, according to McKinsey, and this is a study that just recently came out, in order to satisfy the demand for AI, the data center power demand, over the next 10 years, the US needs to double the amount of electricity that is produced. Right? So that is most likely capitalizing on that, looking at that as the picks and shovels, if you will, of the AI Gold rush. Energy is, I believe, we believe, the biggest investment opportunity certainly of a generation, if not maybe even historically, much longer period of time than that. And what also is kind of interesting, a lot of people are, oh, is this administration dependent and Green New Deal and whatnot? We have never been involved in any sort of investment that required government subsidy because that's something that's fickle. You know, the vagaries of that kind of funding are obviously very tangible and everybody can understand that. But if you look at the current administration, you know, the President has said that these data centers are the top priority for the United States and they should each have their own independent source of energy. So this is a big tent thing. This is not for people who are of any particular party. It's, are you interested in making money? And by far, renewable energy solutions for data centers and power, AI and crypto are absolutely huge opportunities. So that's where we're focused. And what we're focused on is sourcing quality deals at a stage where the valuation is still reasonable. And we're going to make those accessible to retail investors as a component of the investment. Any investment that we are involved in will have institutional investors participating. But the difference with us and what we're attempting to accomplish, particularly talking to your community and retail accredited investors, is to give them access on the same terms as institutional investors for that, those opportunities. So that's, that's what I think. I mean, I'm so excited about this, Peter, I can barely sleep. It's such a. And it's just, I mean, it's just mind boggling the size of the opportunity. It's recession proof. It's, it's just every day it gets, the demand gets bigger. So it's very, very exciting.

I mean, I have to say, first of all, I mean, I'm pretty new to this whole space in this new area. I mean, obviously I've heard about the crazy amounts of energy that we need to power up, all the new things that we're trying to build. And obviously energy really changes the way the economy runs, the way it works. And I know there's been so much talk about that politically and everything that's going on. Just so I can understand better again, because I'm kind of new to space. Like, what kind of companies are you talking about here? Like what kind of new technology? Because I hear about obviously solar, I hear about wind, I hear about things like that. Like what kind of companies are you investing in and what kind of new technologies just to give me some idea of what it might look like.

Well, I think the, the, you know, the clean energy is sort of the watchword, right? Clean energy, right. And clean energy can take forms that go beyond solar and wind. And you know, there's a host of different technologies out there relating to nuclear power. Right. And in fact, if you go to our, our website, I did my own little interview with the former Secretary of Energy, Spencer Abraham, who is, is ranked the number one expert on nuclear power, you know, in the United States. You know, that's the kind of access we have and we discuss that. So. And Sam Altman of OpenAI has recently backed a company that went public. There's two nuclear technology companies that have recently gone public and both have greater than $5 billion market capitalizations with no revenue. They're just developing potential solutions. So that's an area that I think we are definitely going to be looking at as well as a data center creates a lot of heat, right? And so there's a, there's a need for cooling, there's a need for can you recycle that heat into electricity, you know, things of that nature. So I think there's, there's a whole host of different ways to deliver power and a lot of capital is going into, you know, a variety of different solutions. I mean, there's A, there's a company that has a way to turn the steel infrastructure for building a data center into a thermal battery where you can then draw on that electricity, recycling the electricity, using it twice. So there are a host of different technologies we're definitely interested in, not just, you know, what people might think is traditional wind and solar. It's interesting, though, you know, you talk about wind and, you know, you go into the fracking Permian basin and there are windmills everywhere because the grid is so unstable in Texas that you need independent sources of power to drive even fossil fuel production. So I think there are a variety of different potential technologies. You know, our team is global. You know, we're working with access to a host of different solutions, but I think it's going to be something that is sustainable and will be deployed, you know, by data centers. But, you know, also there's another aspect too, about Invest Green I haven't mentioned, which is that we have corporations. So on the one hand, we're, you know, investors can come to us and learn information, but we also have corporate partners who are working with us because of our number one in the world expertise, research expertise for technologies that they can deploy. And so the household name partner that we have, our founding corporate partner, which I think legitimates the idea of Invest Green as a credible source of information, is Toyota. And Toyota is the world's largest automaker, and they also happen to have the world's largest data center. And they are expanding because Toyota wants to get really involved in AI and the whole sort of Internet IoT and having the whole auto infotainment system become much more than it currently is. So we are in a position not only to source different technologies, but to have huge customers for those applications. You know, we're not just sort of a group that's looking to find investors and then leave these companies. We're looking for technologies that our partners, our corporations that we work with, as well as investors, you know, can get interest in because we want to, you know, get hit the ground running with whatever we're doing and have, you know, customers for it. Because at the end of the day, revenue drives evaluation, right? And so we're looking for sustainable technologies, but we have the great and unique opportunity to deploy those technologies with huge corporate partners, you know, from day one. So it's kind of a holistic opportunity for any, any technologist. It'll be a dream to work with Invest Dot Green.

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We can't wait to see you inside. I mean I know the space is obviously growing. It's the future of sustainable energy. With that I'm sure there are tons of companies, businesses that are sprouting up to try to serve this need like you mentioned in different areas. How do you decide who to partner with? How do you decide who is a good investment? How do you decide who to put your hard earned money with at the end day? Because again, there's so many different companies and businesses out there. I'd love to know a little bit about how you think about this and make that decision.

Well, I think first and foremost what I was just touching on. Great question by the way. It seems like every day as you can Imagine being relatively high profile in this sector. You can imagine the number of inquiries we receive on a regular basis and many of whom, shall we say, have dubious merit or limited potential. I think that might be a generous description. So what we have done, this foundation of knowledge that we have to conduct research, you know, goes back 32, 33 years now, right. Our first and foremost, we have a lot of knowledge and then we have a lot of access. So people are coming to us with quality opportunities. So basically I think we are already aware of the solutions that we're interested in. We, we have deep contacts in whatever sector it might be. As I mentioned, nuclear, you know, not to name drop, but I mean, the Secretary of Energy, you know, is somebody that we have access to, not just him, several secretaries of energy, in fact. So part of what we are doing is utilizing that knowledge base and screening opportunities. We have a lot of deal flow, which is another positive. But going back to the idea of having a corporate partner like a Toyota, you know, we can go to them. You know, again, I'm a firm believer in revenue and customers more than anything else. Right. And despite the fact that some of these public companies have huge valuations with no revenue, very reminiscent of the dot com, not to date myself, but the dot com bubble. So we are looking for technologies that, you know, from our existing database of contacts, we don't need really new contacts to source more opportunities. And then we want to take them and talk to our partners, corporate partners, and say, is this something you could see yourself using? I mean, imagine, Peter, the value of that. If you're an early stage company, you're not going to have access to the sort of C suite that our team does. Right. I mean, Tarine Campton created Microsoft's multibillion dollar sustainable investment portfolio. I don't think there's a much bigger data center user than Microsoft. Right. So, you know, we have access to find potential customers. So we'll take a technology, a solution, a company, and then we'll go see how viable it is. And that's something that, you know, the value of being able to do that is what company might raise tens of millions to, you know, hire business development people and so forth and not have that sort of access. So our access is, is the key to determining whether these opportunities are viable. And then we'll try and find a customer for them if they're not already, you know, have having many, many customers. So that's sort of how we look at doing it. Access, information, knowledge equals opportunity.

First of all, thank you for Sharing that our community in particular as physicians and hardworking individuals, we create our income and we're usually looking for other opportunities for diversification as hedges for additional streams of income. That's what we're all about in this community. And we've talked a lot about diversifying into multiple different asset classes. So, you know, apartment buildings, different types of businesses, some commodities, some gold, all these different things that we talk about. And energy is actually something we've been talking a little bit about over the last few years. Like what's the overall characteristic, I'd say, of the type of returns that someone might get if they're investing in this energy space? I guess in kind of what you're doing so that people can understand what that does for them? Is that stream of income? Is it more like, you know, they wait for a big return at the end of the day after five, ten years? Like, what are people looking for when they typically come to you?

Fantastic question. We welcome, we're happy for anyone to come and register and learn. And if you don't want to make an investment, we don't, you know, that's great. We would love you to be educated and make your own decisions and stimulating general interest in this sector is very important to us. So if we can educate you and get you excited and maybe you decide to buy a stock that has nothing to do with us in a large public company because you've learned something, hey, that's great, we're happy to do that. But in terms of potential investments, when I mention opportunities in addition to knowledge that Invest Green provides, I would say first of all, as I'm sure you're well aware, I mean, you're a very sophisticated, successful investor position and I'm sure you know that diversification is key to your long term portfolio success. So I would say the rule of thumb that I've always gone by, and I think many financial advisors would go by, is that you should probably, maybe allocate no more than 10% of your portfolio to venture capital type of investments. And some people shouldn't invest at all in venture capital. Maybe they would prefer to put all of it into a multifamily real estate deal or a no load index fund or what have you. And that's fine. But lots of people want to get involved and stimulate this sector in particular with their capital. So let's say you've got a portion of your portfolio and you want to allocate it to sustainably driven venture capital opportunities. Now, what typically will transpire is first of all Those opportunities are not going to be available to you unless you're a investor with $5 million or more, right. Or you're an institution. So it's very hard to find the sort of value unless the valuation has gone crazy. You know, like when any, anytime a company goes public, you know, the valuation has been driven up so far. It's the initial investors who have the 100x return or the whatever X return, not the retail investors. Or you put money into a fund as a limited partner, right. And again, that usually requires considerable money. Even if you're wealthy, it might be more than you'd be, you know, comfortable investing. But when you put money into a fund, typically what's going to happen, a venture capital fund is you're going to wait a number of years until there's the potential for an exit. And so, you know, it's, it can be a very illiquid sort of way to invest your money, right. And with the potential for, you know, a staggering home run return, right. That's why people invest largely in venture capital and then there'll be some, some misses. So really the only thing you can do as an investor considering making venture capital investments is look at who you're investing with. You know, who are these people? What is their track record, right? So once you've decided that this is a viable group who you'd like to be part of, how do you get involved? What are the opportunities? And, and is there a chance for liquidity? And so what we've decided to do because we've done funds before and you know, those funds typically are a seven year duration and you know, your capital is tied up and the liquidity can be somewhat limited because these are private funds I'm talking about. So what we have decided to do based upon the just immense interest in the sector and they just crazy rabid interest on the part of the markets for these types of companies is we are working on deals that are going to be able to go public in the very near term, right? So we're looking for opportunities where when we get involved, basically within 12 to 24 months, that entity will become a public company and provide liquidity to the investors. So the way to look at what we have to offer, if you're a accredited investor is we have a potential route to institutional quality opportunities that have a short term horizon to go public. And in this white hot sector, I have investments I've made. I think I was just talking about one the other day that I made in 1998. I'm still haven't received liquidity from that. Right. So I'm very cognizant of the fact that liquidity is king. And I think right now there's a real tremendous opportunity to capitalize on the massive demand and interest by having public vehicles. So that is what we're working towards. If you were to get involved with us, there would be opportunities to participate in pre IPO companies, investments at the same or terms as institutional investors which have a clear and defined strategy for, you know, getting into the public markets as our near term objective. So I mean, what do you think.

The big risks in this whole space are? We like talk a lot about that. And so what are the things that may be on the opposite side of, you know, getting you up in the morning, what like, keeps you up at night? And then what are some things that I guess smart, savvy investors, by the way, I'm still learning myself. What are some things that some smart savvy investors like should ask about or in terms of risks, should look at before making these type of investment decisions?

Well, I think first and foremost, any venture capital investment you shouldn't make unless you're prepared to lose that capital, period. Anyone who comes to you and says this is a sure thing, you're investing in venture capital, it's going to happen 1,000%, you know, turn the other way, you know, I mean, you know, so venture capital is by definition something that has a risk attachment to it. Therefore, you should only put a portion of your portfolio that you're comfortable losing or that you're at least are, you know, not reliant on into any kind of, not, not just us, but any kind of venture opportunity or thing. It's not like buying an apartment building or putting money into an index fund or whatnot. So there's always an element of risk and it should be your risk capital that you're deploying for these kinds of opportunities. But so what keeps me up at night? I mean, frankly, and you know, we're agnostic. I mean, I mentioned Spencer Abraham. He is, you know, Republican. He was the Secretary of Energy under George W. Bush, you know. But when the, the whole election occurred in this most recent cycle, I thought is how is this going to impact our, our space? Right. Because you've had an administration that has been so talking about it constantly. And to my great surprise, the new administration has basically magnified the opportunity, particularly with the energy. Right. So it was just unexpected would be an understatement. And now we have just such positive energy, no pun intended, you know, and momentum, if you will, from the current administration. And ironically, like you take the Secretary of Energy now, you know, who's an oil and gas person, and, you know, talks about how it's important to have, you know, more energy coming from oil. Well, you know, there were 9,000 wells approved in 2021 to be drilled that have yet to be drilled in the United States. Right. There's no shortage of oil or oil production. Right. But that's not going to resolve the need for electricity. Right. So what's happening is in a sort of happy set of circumstances, this incredible interest in AI on the part of the current administration and just about everybody else, a byproduct of that is going to be incredible advances in renewable energy. Right. And who can benefit from that? Well, obviously investors in that space. So I think that was something that did keep me up at night and did for a little while until things unfolded. And then, you know, what else could potentially happen? Well, how are these relationships going to be between different countries and tariffs and things like that? But what I've decided to do is just do what we can control, what I can do. Right. I think it's very important to just focus on achieving success within things you can control. Right. So, you know, that's what we're doing. And it just, you know, it seems like we're in a very favorable environment right now, so we'll see. But I mean, every day there seems to be a new announcement and like now there's going to be a crypto reserve. Well, crypto, my goodness. You know, up here in the Northwest, there's crypto everywhere because the hydropower is so inexpensive. But, you know, it's not going to be that way forever. So it seems to me that opportunity is everywhere. And maybe the only negative is there's too much opportunity. So we have to really be focused on selecting the very best investments to be a part of. So hopefully that answers your question.

It does. I mean, it gives us a lot of insight into what the space looks like. I think a lot of people, especially in our community, have talked about getting involved in green, sustainable energy. I think people are really obviously excited about that in our space and understand the need for it. But always the problem and the challenge has been, what does that mean? Like, how do I actually get into the space? And what I love about what you're doing is when you mean democratizing, you're just giving access to reg. I believe regular folks like us who perhaps have some capital to invest in this area or have some interest, and it Gives us the opportunity to be.

Able to do that.

I think that's really exciting. What I'd love to hear is from you personally, like what, what else are you interested in personally outside of this, that you're passionate about? That I guess excites you from day to day.

You know, I love to work and I think it's, you're fortunate in life if you, you know what, you know the old cliched expression it's not a job or it's not work if you, if you enjoy what you're doing. So to me, getting up early, I'm an early riser. I don't know about you, but I'm very early riser. 5 o' clock is probably almost all.

Doctors are, whether they want, by the way, just so you know, so you're used to that.

But I like to get, I like to get up and get going immediately. You know, it's very important. Wellness is, I'm very wellness centric. You know, my whole lifestyle is built around wellness. And I also like to give back to those who, you know, need it and in whatever way I can. And just tangibly, my whole sort of philosophy in life is to, you know, treat people how you would like to be treated and show, you know, respect to everyone and everybody's whatever they're doing. You know, you don't have to be wealthy to deserve respect and to be treated with dignity. And you know, just the fact that I happen to have ended up in a business where money is the focal point and we're talking about investing, passive investment, you know, and making money, but you know, I'm very well aware that's not all there is to life, but making that money and then using it in a way to give you and your family a quality of life, but also to give back to the community and to just try and, you know, contribute something. Right. As opposed to just going out to make as much money as possible with no other end goal in sight, you know, so I mean to me that that's important. I like to just be very active and you know, I'm pretty much a non stop. Once I get up, I can't, you know, I can't wait to go to work, but I also can't wait to interact with people and learn about what they're doing. And I love, I love talking to people and just learning what their story is and what we're doing here, especially with renewables. In my opinion, it is going to make an impact down the road, you know, when we're no longer here. Right. And to me, that's important. And I know that even if people don't have a clear understanding of it, even if they're not investors, I know there are tangible outcomes for the future that this kind of investment is going to create. And that feels really, really good to me. But I feel very fortunate that I am doing something. I just love it and I, I love the people I get to collaborate with. And oftentimes I have to just pinch myself to believe that these are the people who are, you know, working with me. That's, I consider myself to be very, very lucky.

That's awesome. I mean, I know that some people are going to hear this and they're going to want to connect with you in some way. They want to get educated on this space. And I know you offer a lot of that as well. Where's a great place for people to connect with you and your mission and what you're doing through Invest Green?

First of all, Invest Green is the website. So not invest green.com but invest.green. green is a top level domain. And so I've kind of been involved with them trying to get that adopted for years. But Invest Green is our site and basically, like, especially for your community, you know, who, you know, we're so privileged to, you know, be able to chat to you and through, you know, your podcast, talk to them. We're going to do a webinar. So if there's an interest in this for the pimd, you can just go to Invest Green Register and we'll have our whole team. You'll get the opportunity to interact with the former chief investment officer of Microsoft, the former chief financial officer of Fidelity Investments, the former president of Robinhood Financial. They're all going to be there discussing and of course, Matthew Kiernan, you know, who's written books about this space. So we're going to do a webinar for your audience and that's a great way to learn and to meet all of the people I've mentioned, ask them questions and decide if this is something that you want to be a part of. And again, I think it's important to note that although there are opportunities, we're not here to sell you an opportunity. We're here to have you join the movement, learn and decide however it is that you want to participate. You know, it doesn't have to be with us, but we'd love to be a trusted source of information for you. That's awesome.

People should definitely check it out. There's a lot coming down the road here. Again, I appreciate how in the time that I've worked and interacted with Invest Green, what I appreciate about you guys is your focus and emphasis on the mission and also on education first. I think that's what we're about and that's why we align so well. So I want to thank you for taking the time to do this. You know, you're an inspiration in so many ways and thank you for the time again. I really appreciate it and hopefully we talk again soon.

Absolutely, Peter, and it's been my privilege to be here with you and likewise what you've done to inspiring entrepreneurially and education wise. I think it's fantastic.

Enjoy the show.

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