Interview with Rita Panicker and J.B. Oli, March 3, 2023

Hello, I am Rahul Prasad of the Butterflies USA Board of Directors. On March 2nd, I interviewed Rita Panicker, founding director of Butterflies, a child rights NGO based in New Delhi, India. Our online conversation features insights from Rita and her team on the role of US philanthropy in sustaining the organization and its programming. Butterflies USA is proud to stand with the India Philanthropy Alliance on its inaugural India Giving Day. By sharing this video with IPA's constituents, we hope to both attract new supporters and advance the India Giving Day goal of creating a sense of abundance over scarcity. For small but effective grassroots NGOs like Butterflyz, organizations which are exceptionally skilled at multiplying their impact by collaborating with the Indian government, particularly at the local level. Thank you for watching, and I hope you'll enjoy learning more about the remarkable work of Butterflyz.

We invite you to join us in this journey, helping children realize their full potential Actually, it came in at a time when we really desperately needed that resources, that funds. One, it was a time when the children were going through an emotional crisis because of the pandemic. And then the other thing is that we were Some of the kids, and in fact, everybody were very scared. And children were not understanding what was happening during that time. And so they were really emotionally, they were very disturbed. And that's the time when we had our counseling services, which we say social casework. And we got special permission from the government to be able to have this one-to-one sessions with the children because the The mobile, I mean, through telephonic counseling was not working. The fact that most of them had only one mobile phone in the house and to be sharing and living in a one-room tenement, there was no privacy. And therefore, it was important to have this one-to-one interaction with the children. And children needed to see their, what we call bhaiya didis. They're actually older sister, older brothers. their social workers. So they did, they wanted to see them, you know, and get that reassurance. So that came in because the mental health of the children, the families in the communities were really at, at a very low point. So the funds were utilized for that. The other is that the Government of Delhi had requested us to take in girls who were living alone or were found on the streets, or their parents had COVID and were hospitalized and there wasn't anybody. So we had a quarantine center for the girls in the state of Delhi. And we got these children from all over Delhi. And they were with us for about 15 to 20 days on batches. And this went on for nearly 9 months. And And we looked after the girls at that particular point in time. We also utilized the money because, as you know, that most of the— I mean, all the families and children that we work with are daily wagers. So there wasn't any jobs. So when it came to income, there was very little. And also, Because savings were so little, so it was a very—I mean, economically—a very depressing time for everybody and also for them. So we used the resources also to give cooked meals in the beginning, and after that we gave them rations, which included rice, wheat flour, oil, spices, as well as. vegetables that do not get spoiled, like onions and potatoes and things like that. And we also gave them hygiene kits so that they had soaps and toothpastes and toothbrushes and sanitary napkins for adolescent girls and women. So this went on also, that was also being used during this period with that resources. So it was I think it was such a blessing at that particular point because most of the funds that we have are so budgeted and they're all under budget lines. And this came to us at a time when we desperately needed that to be able to support the children. So that's what we did, utilize the resources for, for mental health, giving rations and for quarantine facilities for girls in the city of Delhi. When I spoke about mental health, I have to say that it's part of our, our Child Health and Sports Cooperative. And we have every year, we train about 172 adolescent girls and boys as buddies. And we, we give them basic training in communications and in counseling. They're not counselors, they're just buddies. And, and so they were able to reach out to the, to their friends, and they continue to do that because mental health intervention for butterflies is cross-cutting. It's not a standalone program. So in that, the buddies played a very, very important role during this period and continue to do that. As you know, children are, you know, very inquisitive, curious, and the training was that to tell them that don't ask, you know, kind of nosy questions and, you know, don't be, you know, too inquisitive, you know. So they learned, they learned how to communicate, they learned how to listen to their friends, and they were very observant too. And when they found that one of their friends was actually not speaking too much or not coming out and playing when they were in the playground, they knew something was happening. And they would then inform the social caseworker. So that's the, the Child Health and Sports Cooperative, which is a life skill education program, is, is, I think, a wonderful program. It's a lifeline for the children, teaching them how to live healthy and emotionally well. But we also have another cooperative called the Children's Development Khazana, which is actually teaching children financial management. And I must say that it came as a lifeline for these children during this pandemic, because they had the savings. They could reach out to their Khazana and ask for advances so that they could support their families during this time of real economic depression, when they really didn't have money, they had no savings to fall back on. It was this particular Khazana that really supported the children, and the children could really give the money to their parents to buy some of the most essential things. I have to say here an anecdote, you know, there was this kid who and his parents, father, who went back to the village, But the village was, was equally, equally struggling. And everybody were in a, in a, in a, in a really in a, in a hopeless situation. There was sickness around, there wasn't money around, there wasn't food around. And the father was very sad because he was not able to— he didn't know whom to ask, borrow money from, because nobody had money to give. And That's when this little boy said he called up. He used his his uncle's phone, called up the the advisory committee of the Children's Development Kazana and said, "Would you mind please sending me thousand rupees? You know, it's my savings and if any other advance." And they immediately they were able to send that money. And when the kid took that money, it wasn't much, just about ₹1,000. But the fact it was, it was a hell of a lot of money at that particular point in time. And when the little boy gave that to his father, the father embraced him and kissed him and started crying. And this is a father who's not emotional. He never hugs, he never kisses his kid. And this was the first time that the that he did that, you know, he really hugged him and he kissed him. And he said, you know, you are like, like a god fairy, you know, that who has come and then helped us at this point. And the father said, when I go back, I've learned a lesson from you. I'll also start saving small amounts of money. And the little one said that, you know, I'm gonna be saving a lot of money too, you know, because one never knows, you know, when this pandemic will Will you know it'll be there or not there? So you know, so it was also a lifeline for the children. The kazana. The other program of ours, which is the core program of butterflies, is education because we believe that unless children go to formal school. and study, there is no exit from generational illiteracy and poverty. So for us, education is a core program, and we support children to continue their formal education. And all those who complete their high school and they want to go in for higher education, we would support them for it. So it's a We now, right now, we work with, with young persons right up to the age of 21. So we do support some of these young persons who, and there are quite a few who are now in Delhi University studying. Some have gone for technical education. And Butterflies also has a technical school. We have a Butterfly School of Culinary and Catering. Where the children come and learn culinary, and we are really proud to say that all our graduates have got jobs in fine dining restaurants. And very lately, one of our graduates just wrote to tell us that he works with J.W. Marriott, that he has become a junior chef. He has been promoted, and he's now in Bangalore. We are so excited that he has become a junior chef, and his whole whole life. Life thing is he keeps telling me, Didi, is that I want to be a head chef. And we also have media. We have a radio program and we have online newspaper. The radio is called Butterflies Broadcasting Children. The children produce the radio programs every week. It is aired in All India Radio FM station. It's very popular. We get very good feedback from the listeners, and the children are very proud. Recently, the BBC, as we say, but they are Butterfly Broadcasting Children. They went for a program, and this little boy said, you know, I'm actually a journalist. You know, I'm from BBC. But not the real, I mean, not that BBC, but Butterfly Broadcasting Children. And that the original BBC had trained them. And when they asked, when the children asked BBC, can we use the name BBC? They said, sure, but the full form has to be different. So they said, okay, so we changed the full form. So it is Butterfly Broadcasting Children, but then it's BBC. So they're very proud of being radio broadcasters. podcasters. They're excellent. I wish you— I hope you all will listen to the podcast. It's translated into— is in English too. They pick up all subjects which they find interesting: environment, climate, mental health issues, about education. They— so they— it's a varied kind of topics that the children pick up. Sports and play is very important for us. So children are encouraged to go out and play. So that's another area of our work. I'll stop here, Rahul, because, you know, one can go on with butterflies. There's so much to say. One is that Like I said, education is very, very important for butterflies. And right now, with the learning levels having really dipped and dropped because of online schooling, it has become imperative for us to spend more time on the education. You know, earlier we used to be there in the field for, it would be 3 to 4 hours, but now you need to take extra classes. But we also need to have teachers who are subject specialists. in mathematics and science and languages. That's something that we would really want to do. The other area of work which we are very keen on, and is that this is again taking from mental health. We— technology, internet and social media has— is influencing the lives of children. And it is causing a lot of issues with children with it. And So how do we— by telling a kid, don't go into the social media, don't chat, don't put in, it's not going to work. Because as it is, the virtual world is unfortunately has become their real world and not the real world. So the human beings talking one-to-one is something that is happening less as compared to their virtual world. So one thing that we do is to see to it that they come out and play. And they have their sports, which is football and basketball, and they play that, and also all other games. The other is that what we are trying to do is, which is we are in, we haven't yet initiated, but we will, is to get children to read a storybook. So they have libraries, which is a mobile library, so they can read a storybook, they can ask questions, and maybe even change the story lion, you know? Why is it that the lion has to always be the king? You know, a squirrel can be a king too, you know. So you can be more imaginative, you know, and change, change the, the whatever the script has said. We're going to ask the kids also to be, to write, because some of our children are budding poets. So if they can write poems, they can write stories, they can do, write essays, they can do artwork. We will put it all together And every year we would have a literature festival where the children can share what they have written, and, and they could read stories, and we could invite some of the, the, the professors from the various universities, the authors in, in Delhi, to come and listen to them or see to them. It's a kind of an encouragement, encouragement for them, but also to get them off the mobile and to, to to go back to the romance of holding a book and reading a print, a printed page, rather than on the Kindle and everything else that you see. The children have written about their experiences during the pandemic. And my, my colleague Ollie is looking at it and editing it. And we're going to bring that out as a book. But we'll definitely be bringing out all the writings and the artwork of the children in a, in a book. book form. And that would, that would excite them, that would motivate them to know that, oh my, it's been published, you know. So maybe that will help them to pick up a book more than look into their, into their internet and social media, you know. So I— so if, of course, Rahul, it's this internet, social media, It's a challenge to have an alternate to that. It's not easy, you know, because the kids have so many friends on their internet. And the fact is that they follow so many of these YouTubers. And some of them are trying to be YouTubers and get followers, you know. So it's not— the world is quite— technology-driven. So for us to come with an alternate and say, pick up a book and read the book, you know, it has fantastic, you know, stories to tell you. It is a challenge, but if we do it the right way, I think we definitely will have a lot of budding writers and poets, and, and I hope that we can, we can show to the other kids, the middle class and the others, that look, these kids are poets, and they've, they've been able to write their poems and stories. So we are hoping that we can, but it's a challenge. But I think in every challenge, there's an opportunity. Yes. And that's what we'll grab at. And the other is in the We would like to work with boys, focusing on them. This is as a follow-on of the study that we did of boys being sexually abused, because normally when we speak about children and sexual abuse, one imagines it's— or thinks it only happens to girls, but it's not true. Boys also get sexually abused, and that's not recognized. It's, it's there's a big silence around that. So we want to break that silence. So we would be working with boys on sexuality as well as on masculinity, but also how to take care of yourself so that you do not get sexually abused. So that is one focus area, which is something that we will be doing. The other is that in the area of preventing children from getting into a conflict with law, the wrong side of law. So we want to work with the Delhi Police and, and in the districts that we work and zero in, in communities where there is a high incidence of violence and crime and see how we can prevent and give other alternatives to the adolescents and young persons that drugs is not an is not the way for you. Pickpocketing is not the way for you. For all you know, you may be a good sportsperson. You may be a theater person. You may be a poet. So we would like to, you know, have activities and programs in these specific communities so that we can draw them out from their risk behavior. So that is something that is on that we would really like to do it. And I must say that our media, children's media too, we want to expand it because there's a lot of requests coming in from different parts of the country. We have had children from Kashmir asking us about it as much as children from down south in Kerala, or Tamil Nadu, or the west or the east. But interestingly, we are also getting requests from West Africa, from Ghana, and from Madagascar, which is a tiny island in the east coast of Africa, and from Guyana, from the Caribbean. So we would be— we would like to also give that training to these kids so that we can have the children speaking and sharing their views to the rest of us. It's not children speaking to children, but children telling us adults about their worldview as to how they see it from their lens to that which is so different from the way we look at the world. So that is something that we would really like to go forward with, apart from everything else that we are doing. In these programs like the Children's Development Khazana or the Child Health and Sports Cooperative, I mean, these two are the flagship programs of Butterfly's and, and it's truly owned by children. And when I say that, I'm saying that with all honesty, they own it. And they are the ones who script the narratives. It's not us telling them what you should do, what you should not do. They know, they, they decide, and they, and they work on it. And they come to us for, for help when they are, when they want some to do something and they are not able to understand how to do it or decode it, then of course we come into it. Now, this is something that is a life skill, truly a life skill for life, to live a healthy life, as the WHO says, a body that's not only disease-free, but also mentally healthy. to be emotionally well is so important. And that's what the children are learning, because you can, you can have enough of money. But if you don't know how to live a healthy and safe life, that's not going to help you in any which way. Similarly, the Khazana is teaching you how to prioritize your need, you know, you don't need to be I, me and myself, you know, you don't need to be such a consumerist, you know, that You have a fantastic jacket. You don't need to have a second jacket. Your jacket is fantastic. You know, okay, your friend is wearing a beautiful red-colored jacket and you got only a black one and you want that red jacket. How about negotiating with him and loaning your black jacket to him and getting his red jacket and wear that for a week and, you know, maybe, you know, get all the hype that you want from your girls, girlfriends. I don't know. Because everybody wants to be, you know, know. And, but, you know, he looks so good. You can see all the girls, you know, I mean, they all look at his jacket. Okay, you know, I mean, but the jacket costs us money, but you have a fantastic jacket. Ask him, you know. So, so how do you negotiate with each other and also have, you know, walk around with that little style, you know, and catch the eye of your girlfriends and, you know, and other girls? So I don't know. But, you know, the, the Kids nowadays, you know, they're so style conscious, you know, right from their shoes to their jackets that they wear, you know, and their hairstyles, you know. So, so it is something that the Khazana is teaching them that do you really need that? You know, can you, can you, if you save that money, you're focusing on, so you can focus on a goal that you would like to do. So, and I have to say that we have this, this girl who's about 17 years old, she's from one of our contact points. There's a big market called the Okhla Market. And she's been a member of RCDK. And her goal is to get into the Delhi University. But she knows that the education is expensive. So she has been saving money and hats off to her. In the last so many years, she does part-time tuitions for some of the kids, earns that money, puts it in the khazana. She has now about 300,000 Indian rupees in her bank, you know, and how many of the middle-class kids would have that? They would just go to their parents who are their ATM machines anyway and say, Papa, I want this money, and their papa would give it, you know. But these are kids where Papa doesn't have the money, and Mama, but they've been able to. So she's done it. I mean, Samia is fantastic. I mean, she has become kind of an icon with us, with our kids. And anyway, oh, Samia, if Samia has done it, I can do it. So do it, you know. But then you have a goal you get focused on, you know.

What Mr. Prasad asked earlier about expansion, you know, I would like to add what Panicker has already mentioned is we work with the associate members in India. So we are working in 5 states and also directly we are working in Delhi and one other state, namely Uttarakhand. So, uh, in Uttarakhand, we so far we are working in a limited manner because we were working with the state government Department of Education. So our engagement was to just identify out-of-school children and then, you know, put them in school and for a year to supervise them so that they retain in school. So what now we are planning to do is we realize that, you know, in one year it is, it is is not helping them to remain in school after, you know, we leave them and shift to other locations. So, uh, that also has been our experience in working with children in Delhi. So what we want to do now is same program that we have been doing, you know, implementing in Delhi, we want to implement the same strategy in Uttarakhand as well. So we will have, you know, more longer engage, longer period of engagement with children. Uh, at least for 3 years we want to continue with the same group of children. And every year, of course, the state government will give us the new, you know, targets because they want all these out-of-school children to be remaining, I mean, to be put in schools. So, so new groups will be, you know, added every year as per the, you know, the Targets given by the state government. At the same time, we would like to continue with the existing number of children so that we can ensure that even if you know we discontinue, they they remain in school. So that we want. Even though government every year they run different programs to identify children, still because this state is a new state relatively and there has been a lot of focus in development investment and also migration is increased there. So the number of children who are coming there alone and also with the families to work in an organized sector, daily wage earners, and is increasing. So, um, it doesn't matter how much effort the government puts to put all the children in school, but New group of children come every year. Through our associates, we are, you know, implementing the cooperative program. So we are— one is we are, you know, supervising and also monitoring how it is being implemented. At the same time, we are also running, you know, technical and also professional training for the, you know, colleagues who are working in these all organizations. So it is about child participation and, you know, the cooperative approach to work with children and how to manage programs involving children and how to develop strategies which includes children as the agency and stakeholders and program development, monitoring, and evaluation. So that all technical Plus the values we are also transferring to other organizations. So at least around 12 organizations are there in India who have been in with butterflies for last 10-12 years. So all of them have now, you know, in their own program when they develop their own strategic programs and plans, the core values of children's participation, cooperative approach to work, and mental health. These are three. Concepts and core values that are included by them. So that is one. We are managing an alliance called National Alliance of Grassroots NGOs. There are 23 organizations who are working with children in different parts of the country. So they— we also, you know, share our knowledge, our, you know, experience and values with the alliance members. At the same time, we also learn from them. So through these 2 mechanisms, we are learning ourselves and also sharing our experiences and knowledge. We have not been able to do a big research to, you know, capturing bigger aspects and all. So one we are going to complete in this May is on therapeutic approaches, how the casework and family therapy therapeutic approach helps children to address their mental health issues. So this is going to be a major, you know, outcome which is going to be released during our international conference. About our new building, uh, luckily we found one of the renowned architects who designed this building considering the environment. And so from day one, this was the discussion that we had, that we want a building which, first of all, it should be the space for children, and secondly, it should be, you know, it should be environment friendly. So these were the 2 concepts that we had explained to the architects, the designers. The building is for children because all that, the space and the entry and exit and all the rooms and spaces are designed in such a manner that when a child enters the building, then roams around all the floors, then when the child comes, so the child literally feels that, you know, whether I don't know where I was. So it's like a, you know, puzzling, you know. So that is wonderful. Children really like whenever they come, they want to spend time, you know, just walking and, you know, coming up and down. So that is one. environment-friendly is that, you know, the, uh, you know, most of the things that, you know, in which are used for construction, the material is, uh, reused. For example, the all the wooden work, woodwork was reused from— it was taken from the old buildings which were demolished by other people who wanted to create, build their own new building. So The architect had contacted all these, you know, other architects who are going to, you know, rebuild other buildings. So he had requested them, if you can give me the details of how many buildings you are going to demolish and what other material is going to be available. So according to the material available, he designed the doors and windows and all the, you know, exit and entry points. So he first measured the available material, then based on that You know, all the windows were also designed. So that is one. Secondly, all the bricks were produced from the soil that was unearthed when we had to, you know, build the basement. So there was a lot of mud which was used to, you know, produce bricks within same space. So we didn't have to buy new bricks. So that is the second thing. And thirdly, we have the solar system fully placed on the top of the building. So around 50%, more than 50% of our electricity energy is supplied through solar energy. So all our computers, lights is run by solar, but only the Heating, if we need during the winter, and the air conditions during the summer are run through direct electricity. So that is how it is designed and it is functioning. At the moment, 56, all of us working in organization. So we have different programs, and one is education and life skill education. Then we have cooperatives, that is Children Development Khajana and Child Health and Sports Cooperative. Then we have mental health, and we have alliance and national alliance, and we have media. And so to run this program, we have— my colleagues who are heading these individual programs and managing. So, and under them there are their team members who are responsible to work at the front line with children. So, uh, for education we have, uh, 8 colleagues in Delhi and 16 in Uttarakhand. They are working directly with us. And under the cooperatives we have 4 colleagues. And mental health, there are 2, but we don't have anybody to head it at the moment. We are looking for somebody, we are interviewing, and we are hoping that we will be able to find somebody soon. Then media, also we have one, one person who is running and managing media program. And this is how we manage. And that is a program part. Then we have administration and finance part where we have colleagues who manage, you know, budgets, finance, accounts, everything. There are 4. And then we have colleagues who help us in logistics work. So we have about, I think, 7 or 8, including we have 3 mobile schools. So we have colleagues who run mobile school and also ensure that it is functional and the equipments are running. So this is how we manage. We have been managing Childline 109. It is an emergency helpline for children in crisis. It has been there for the last 25 years since the beginning of this project in India. And so last year, the Government of India, the Ministry of Women and Child Development, took a policy decision and they wanted to restructure Childline, how it operates. So earlier, the existing, the existing model of Childline is the Government of India provides the resources, allocates a budget annually, and it gives to an organization called Childline India Foundation, who is a quasi-government foundation. It is created by the government, but there are government representatives and also the individual from the NGOs. So that, that organization is responsible to initiate, manage, supervise, run 1098 services throughout the country, and the— in partnership with the local organization like Butterflies. So every district has one child line, so it's district-based child protection service. Uh, so it was running well, and there are more than, I think, at the moment 640 childlines in India, childline services in India. So last year the ministry took a decision that, you know, they, they would like to restructure it and also run it through the state governments rather than the NGOs. So, uh, the, the new, new proposed model is that the, the central government will fund state governments And the state governments have set up, you know, they have an agency at the state level, it's called Child Protection Society. So the funds will go to the Child Protection Society and the society will manage. They are expected to manage with the police. So police will pick up the phone and there will be some outreach workers and all. That is what the proposed model was, but And it was expected that this will be rolled out from the 1st of April 2023, next month. However, last one year government has been discussing and also, you know, piloting in some places, but they realized that it's not working because first of all, you know, having a child line with the NGO was the idea that, you know, the police cannot do it because it's a sensitive issue. Children need special, you know, different kind of, you know, you know, interaction, all police cannot do it. So, so this was in fact going back to the same model. So, but the police also felt that, you know, we cannot do it because we have— we, we are trained to do something else, not to take care of children who are in crisis. So there is a lot of, you know, resistance from police and also from the child— street child protection societies. Child protection societies so far are happy to manage the funds. They said that we can manage the funds by giving you— giving it to the NGOs who are already running, but we cannot, you know, have new system, new staff, new, you know, childlines under our control. It will be— it will be a lot of work for them. So that is— that's why it has not happened so far. And we— in fact, yesterday only we received a mail from Childline India Foundation informing us that the new system has not been started, so another 1 year will be our responsibility. So we are happy for that, but we want some kind of assurance that we will have some role, because we have colleagues who have been working with us for 15, 16 years at least, and they have been trained, and they are perfect to reach out to children in crisis and help them. So First of all, you know, their learning, their experience, their knowledge is going to be, you know, useless in future for government. That cannot happen because ultimately government invests so much money to, you know, train such a big number of child protection professionals. So they should be, you know, given some responsibility. That's one thing. Secondly, you know, uh, there has to be some kind of, you know, defined strategy plan and also You know, it has to be discussed with the child and who— I mean, the organization which are already running the program. But unfortunately, government is doing in such a secretive manner that we don't know what they are discussing, who is helping them to design new, you know, strategy. So we are very concerned about it. But next one year we are going to run. That is our responsibility. I would like to share one small incident. I mean, one small initiative we took during the pandemic. One is, of course, we are giving, you know, this, you know, cooked food initially. Then after that, you know, dry dry material. What we realized that, you know, a lot of organizations and government was also giving these kind of. Material to the families. And so we thought that we should do something different, and also it has to also help them to build some kind of plan for their future, and also they should learn from this experience of, you know, crisis, sudden crisis, big crisis, and they should learn how to prepare for them. So what we did is we collected data, all of our, you know, children and families will have data, so we had a meeting with the families, parents, and said that, you know, look, we had— we have some resources and we can support you for some time. We can provide you, you know, dry material for your food, uh, for 6-7 months, but we want some kind of commitment from you also. So commitment is that, you know, of course you don't have to pay anything to us, but whatever amount of money you are going to, you know, earn from whatever you are doing Of course, you are— you will be spending some money for your food that we are going to support you and supply to you. So you don't have to bother about your food for next 6 months. But in next 6 months, whatever money you are going to earn, how are you going to use it? You have to give us the plan. You prepare a 6-month plan of your budget, and this amount of money, you know, estimate how much money, minimum money you are going to earn for from your occupation. So you give us a plan, budget plan. So household budget, so minus food. So they had prepared small plans like, you know, this money I, I'll be earning this amount of money regardless of what situation happens, but at least this is what I am going to earn. So this money I am going to use in this manner. So in that, we also ask them, so how much you are going to save in your bank account, or where are, where are you going to save it? You cannot use this money even if it's a very small amount. But you have to save. If you don't save, we are not going to give you the, you know, resources, because without commitment we are not going to. So 6 months, every month we were following their earning income and what they are doing. So 6 months we did. It was such a remarkable response from the families, you know. Uh, what did they do is, you know, some of them even put, you know, save around ₹15,000— ₹10,000, ₹12,000, ₹15,000. They They saved in their bank account, and some of them had taken borrowed money from their relatives during when they didn't have work during the lockdown. So they were under debt small amount, so they could pay, and we verified that they are actually paying and they are indebted. So we verified all that. So now we did recently we had a small again after six months we had a discussion and. Collected some data whether they are actually practicing now or they have forgotten about it. So a number of their families, at least 60% families, are now doing household budgeting, and they ensure that some amount of money is saved for future. If there is a crisis, at least they will have some money for 1 or 2 months. So, and, uh, we are helping them to open bank accounts and also have recurring deposits and all that, all financial management what we were teaching children during— through our CDK, we thought that parents also should learn about it. So that has helped, and we could do that because of the resources that we had from USA Foundation, USA Butterfly USA Foundation. So these are the, you know, this is one example. Similar, you know, we want to, you know, do different things with the parents, what parents and families and, you know, communities, teachers And children in the school. So a lot of ideas are there, so we'll be using, you know, resources. So this is what support we would like to have.