How to have the right mindset for making cold calls? | Ft. Maryada Bawa || Episode 13||

If you want to succeed in life, you need to ask a lot of questions and more importantly, ask the right questions. Our today's guest is an SDR leader who was also my first ever SDR hire when I was building the team and asked the right question to clear the interview. She was a natural. Smashed the targets month on month, would not shy away from making 150 dials a day, do whatever it takes and even work longer because she was hungry for success. She's also the first person I had rehired because of her skills and attitude. She got promoted in less than six months. Proved to me that I was right in hiring her. Today she leads a team of 20 SDRs at one of the unicorns from India. She can actually finish two pound steak in one sitting. It will take me at least two days to do that. Today she spilled the secret of her success and much more. I welcome Mariadha Bawa.

Come on.

Welcome to episode 13 of Sales Spin. And today we have an exciting guest on the show. Her name is Mariada Bawa, also known as Mariata as our American people call it. She was my first SDR hire ever and I can confidently say the best one ever. Everyone else who's actually listening to the episode, don't get offended. You're all are nice. I all, I always like everybody. But yeah, she was the first sdr and I think I got to spend more time with her than anybody else. We have, we have known each other for a long time. I think we got to again say same, same story kind of, you know, resonates with her as well, where she was so nice that I had to work with her twice. So I kind of hired her again at charge B and today she's leading a team of 20 SDRs. Not one, not five, 20 SDR. I think that's like the highest. I think I haven't managed 20 SDRs ever. I think the maximum manager is probably 15. So as you can imagine, she has already, you know, the student had become the master. All right, without further ado, I would want to welcome Mariada on the show. Welcome, Mariana.

Thanks, Rahul.

All right, so today's. Okay. First of all, I think this is a question which I started to ask all my guests. Why did you agree to be on the show?

I think one of the reason is maybe to have a good conversation with you. Yeah. The top most would be to share my journey. I think Most of the SDRs today struggle, you know, or they have a lot of questions regarding this role or how they can be successful. So I thought it'll be good to share my journey, my learnings and yeah, share some best practices with everyone.

Oh, I think I have a list of about 10 questions that could go actually more so. Don't, don't, don't, don't get scared. These are all around your role, what you've done and I think what people should learn from you. So I think we, we started working about three years ago, if I remember correctly, about December of 2017. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's close to three years. But yeah, since we haven't worked in the work together in the last one year so that like two, two and a half years we have been touched offline. So I think I know a lot about you, but I'm pretty sure all the viewers who are watching this, they do not. So I think the floor is totally open. So feel free to be as candidate in answering all the questions. So the first question I want to ask is why did you choose to, let's say, lead in the role and not take the traditional route to become an ae? Because that's what is kind of predominant right now whenever an SDR starts in the role.

I think that started, if I have to talk about the real answer, that, that was really stupid answer. That was maybe four years, four years back, I think six years back. If I go back to 2015. You know, when I joined the company Azuka, I started there as an SDR. I always used to see a spending, say good 45 minutes or one hour or even one and a half hours on the product demo. So I always thought that was actually one of the reasons that, hey, I can't focus on or can't be on one call for one and a half hours. That's not me. I really need to get up in between and get the blood pumping. That's who I am. But that was just the beginning. I think a silly reason, but what really hit me was when I was doing the SDR job, I knew how, you know, how much hard work goes into making that role successful or even getting one opportunity every day. So I felt that hard work wasn't getting recognized. Everyone was looking into, say, moving into the account executive role. And that really hurt me that, you know, my hard work or my team's hard work, you know, all the SDRs, you know, with their, their hard work is not getting recognized. All the attention was going to the account executive team. So that really hit me. And also I felt that there's a reason why not, I think why everyone is not looking at you know the SDRs in a certain way because not everyone was successful. They were trying, they were giving up, or they didn't really see the hustle that they were going through. So I thought it'll be. And I also felt what, you know, what actually helped me succeed. Not everyone got that opportunity. That was a good guidance in the beginning when I started. So I thought if with that guidance I could be successful, I want to, you know, paid Forward to the SDRs and, you know, make this team really successful or make this role really successful, that in future, you know, nobody is really giving all the attention to the. To the account executives, but to the SDRs as well. And I think with time, that is changing. So people are say companies are investing in their SDRs, giving them the importance, the attention that they need.

No, I like that. I like the candid answer. Appreciate the honesty. I think I was not expecting this answer. I was expecting something else. I don't know. But, yeah, this is absolutely candid. So thank you for saying that. So from what I gathered from this whole conversation so far is that you want to change the world. You think the world is kind of bad when it comes to, let's say, SDR space. People SDRs are not given the attention and the respect that they kind of deserve. And you think by stepping into the leadership role, you think you might want to change that. And you're saying that you've already started seeing some changes while companies are kind of investing in their training and the way they're recognizing the SDRs.

Yeah, so I think I would say that is still happening. I mean, a lot has changed in these six years. I know, as companies who are investing in the SDRs in terms of their learning or giving them the respect that they deserve. So I think, yeah, things are changing. And again, I think it's. We're still not there. I mean, where we want to be. We're still trying and get all the attention to ourselves. That's. And also, if I talk about the SDR as well, it's not just about us investing in the SDR. It's about SDRs actually feeling the importance. Usually what happens is if, you know, if I'm speaking with someone from my team or if I'm hiring a new candidate, the first question is, hey, what about the growth plans in your company? Right. When can I move to the account executive role? So they are looking at SDR only at the. As a stepping stone to move to another role.

Right, Right.

So one of the reason is they don't really feel as Important as they should.

At the same time, I think that's the way I would say it's our fault, it's company's fault, because that's the way we have portrayed that role for a long time. This is kind of an entry level role. This is kind of a stepping stone. And the only natural path for you to grow from SDR would be an AE path. And at the same time, we have also positioned in a way that, hey, in case you want to make more money, the only way is to become an A. I think I was in a leadership training recently where they said, if the only way your people can make more money is, let's say, by being into a certain role, that means the way you are structuring the way you're, you know, the way your whole company is growing is probably wrong. Right?

So, yeah, I think I completely agree with that point. In fact, that was on, you know, on top of my mind as well. I think one of the reasons that they look for that role is some they genuinely want enjoy that role or they want to grow in their professional life, but I think mostly it's the money that they're looking for. So I think when I started again, I don't say blame the company then, but I think that was six years back, the pay structures were different. Definitely I was getting underpaid. But now if I talk about. You were never underpaid, Mariana, you don't know about 2015. I definitely was. But if I compare that in today's time, I see, you know, starting with myself or, you know, my company. We're ready to invest in SDRs because I want them to be successful. One, it actually takes some time. It's not three months or six months game. You join the company, you join the new role, and then you're going to be successful. So I have to give them what they need, you know, in return in case I want performance or I want them to be with me. So I think that's very important.

Makes sense. Makes sense. How is it like to manage such a big team of 20 SDRs?

To be honest, I'm still learning. I got promoted recently, but prior to this I was elite, but I was managing a team of 12 that was still manageable. Now it's 20. So, yeah, I do have my share of sales, say, craziness. I have those days when I get exhausted. But I do have the support from my two team leaders, so I think that's helping me.

You said when we were talking offline that you're still hiding Right, Yes. So all the people who are all the SDRs or all the, you know, people who want to get into tech space, if you think you want to make it at a unicorn company. And I'm sorry, I did not mention that. So Rugby recently became Unicorn from India and that's like a big achievement. Yeah. So look at the happy face. So she's still hiring and I don't know what her limits are in terms of like she want to make a team of 50 or 100, I don't know. But yeah, the doors are still open. Reach out to her, apply for the position. There are multiple ways to do that. And Maria. So let's talk about this. So what are the few key qualities? And I noticed that since I keep a tab on everybody, I noticed that you recently, you guys recently hired people without any background in SAS or let's say sales at all. So could you maybe talk about how can other people, let's say, who want to get into tech space, how can they apply for the charge? B. First of all, that's their role. And what are the few quality, let's say, which you or your team leader would be judging on, based on which they can prepare themselves? Well.

I think one would be, firstly, get a clearer understanding of the role. It looks very fancy, it looks very easy and it's actually not, to be honest. So do your research. That's very important because that's one of the main parameters actually to be successful as an sdr. When you're reaching out to your prospect, you have to do the research, do the thorough research about the SDR role in case you have any questions. You have Rahul here. You can reach out to him or reach out to me. I'd be happy to answer any questions regarding that. But yeah, one thing I really look for is the, I mean, they're open or they're ready to fail. I think that is very important.

How do you judge that? During the call? I'm sure people would want to know that. I'm sorry to cut you short because when you say that, let's say people are open to fail. Open to failing. Right. And when you, when you're in an interview, nobody would say, hey, you know what, I don't like failing. Everybody would obviously talk about their highest achievements, you know, best possible qualities, best positive rates. How do you usually judge that? That if they're open to failing?

See, I have my own certain set of questions. If, if they're trying to say give me a fake answer or, you know, wrong answer, I have My own, like again, follow up questions. I make sure that, you know, if I'm not convinced, I keep asking those questions in case it's an act they've put on. They will, you know, that will draw better time. But in case they're genuine, it's okay to fail, but it's okay to, it's really important to own your mistakes and ready to try new things. If they're not doing that, if they still say maybe being successful or maybe they're still trying just emails or just phone calls, you know, to be successful in sdr, I don't think they're open to say trying new things.

No, I can, I can vouch for that because I remember your interview when you had with me and I think that was the shortest interview when we were able to hire you, given that you were able to ask the right questions like in the first place. So I'm pretty sure you can do the, you can do a great job. I'm sure finding this whether people are faking it or not.

Sorry I said it feels like yesterday. I still remember the entire conversation with you.

I don't remember. I'm just faking it.

That was like, okay.

In your first role when you were in sdr, when we started working together, I remember we were kind of only banking on, since we, since we were catering to like a certain niche and you were reaching out to a certain audience. We were. And which, which were not active on LinkedIn and LinkedIn was not such a big thing at that time. We were kind of relying only on calls and emails. And I remember you, along with other USDRS, were able to make 120 to 150 calls a day. I want to understand where a lot of people are struggling to even make 50. How were you able to make 150 calls and how did you mentally train yourself to do that? I mean, if there are any tips and tricks people can learn from, I think that'll be great.

Sure. So it's not that, you know, when I started this role, right from day one, I was making 150 calls or 120 calls. And I'm not really a person who believes in quantity. I believe in the quality work we should do, even if it's 30 calls or 50 calls. There were those days, you know, maybe those peaks as well when I did 150 calls. But to be honest, that wasn't my every everyday thing. I wouldn't make 150 calls on a daily basis. So what I believe in was doing the quality work. Start with Less. It's not just about making hundred calls blindly and not getting any results at the end of the day. So I thought let's start with small and then maybe it could be 30, it could be 50. Start with that and see what's happening on those calls. Right? Are you able to say, get any connect on the call? Are you able to hold a conversation with the prospect, make 10 calls and see what's the outcome of that? Was there any connect or not? If there's no connect, try to understand if you are, say, reaching out to the prospect as per their time zone or not, or who you're reaching out to and accordingly call them. And then, yeah, if you see there's no connect, try again, you know, again, go after, you know, set of 10 calls. If you see that you were able to connect with a prospect and there is still no result, just try understanding, you know, take the time, take a break and see what. Why were you not able to convert that into a demo or a meeting or if you could even hold a conversation or not. So this is what I used to do and if you think that you messed it up, it's okay. I think accept your mistake. Take some time out, listen to calls. This is something I really used to do. I would take my break and spend some time in listening to the call calls, live calls. It could be only one side of the conversation. You know, maybe the person SDRC left to me, to me, behind me, next to me. I would just make sure that I do that and there is some learning. And what I would really focus on was it's not that, hey, what different they're doing that was there. But at the same time, as an, as a prospect or as an audience, if someone is saying that to me, would I respond to that? So I was trying to be the prospect there and see few things would be like, hey, wow, if you know, someone says that to me, I would definitely respond to that. And few would be like, hey, I'm definitely not going to try that. So I started with that. Once you have that confidence and once you know that, you know, if you have a prospect on the call, you will be able to hold the conversation no matter what. With time, I think you should be able to see results. When you're getting more results, you get greedy. You want to get more you. And then you slowly start from 50 calls to 70. There might be some days when you're making a hundred calls and you're not getting results, but that's okay. Don't give up. So it's not always about the number of calls. I would say it's just the quality work. But yeah, if you're doing three, you know, if you've scheduled say three meetings for the day, which is a lot, say for an sdr, especially outbound, if you've done that, then, then you definitely want to keep going, keep the momentum going and see if there's a, you know, chance you can get another one. If you can say, make it four and then you want to, you know, make calls. The only way you can do is, you know, pick up the phone, dial more. And I think that's what kept me going.

That is, that is some advice. I'm sure that's going to benefit a lot of. And I do remember a few things when you were saying that, you know, used to happen when we were working together. I think one of the other aspect of this is while you're getting a lot of meetings sometimes, um, you. Those are not able to convert to opportunities or deals. Right. And I think it has and it, from my experience, it has to do a lot with how you deal with your account executive, the way you set your expectations right with them. And you feel free to disagree with this. I would like to understand how do you think that was true, that, you know, your relationship with your AE would actually benefit you. And when I say benefit, it does not mean that, you know, they will accept all the other, you know, opportunities which are not supposed to be there. But if you're setting up three, you know, and this is, this is, this happens with most of the companies where one SDR is able to get a conversion, let's say meeting to conversion at a 70%. Some, some people are struggling at 50 and some people are even below 50. So do you think an expectation setting or your relationship with AE has to do anything with that?

To be honest, I think good relationship with a. I think is only going to help you understand what is good for the business. And I don't think when I am, you know, setting up meeting or most of the sdr, they're setting up the meetings, I might be going or diverting a little away from the topic. But I don't think we are just thinking about, hey, I should get my conversion right. When you've spent some time in that role, you want to think about, you know, think about this from a business perspective as well. Is this going to get some business to the, you know, to the company? If the answer is no or if you have a good report with your, I think account executive, good relationship with them, of course they. You are open to share, you know, to get the feedback. They can share some feedback with you. You can also say set the expectations right. That, hey, because what happens is these two teams work time don't work well together as well. SDR has always complained the account executive is not converting the lead and the A is saying he. The prospect is not ready to buy right now. So I think they both need to understand, both need to have the right expectations. It's not that. It's sears, I think, responsibility to understand what's good for the business and then push it to the account executive. Because if you try to put yourself in an account executive shoe, you know, and then think, would you be able to sell this customer? Will he really buy? I'm not saying everyone should be ready to buy, but if there is a small opportunity, you know, to sell to that prospect, then only I think you should be pushing it to the account executive. And at the same time, the account executive should also have the right expectations that if it's outbound or even if it's inbound, the prospects are not ready to, you know, sign the check. They will still have to put in the efforts and nurture the lead. And then it's gonna say get converted. But coming back to your question, I don't think that will help any str. Say with a better. Better say conversion. Because at the end of the day, maybe once or twice the account executive can do that, but at the end of the day, he or she will also have to say, show their pipeline or what's happening with their deals. So I think maybe sooner or later that is going to stop.

Fair point. How did you transition? So. And okay, so I'll come back to the question later. I have another question. So as I know you and as I, as other people know you, you are someone who's very dedicated and you would not shy away from putting in 14 hours, 16 hours if you have to. Right. I think a lot of people kind of struggle with that, where they kind of clock in, you know, and complete the eight hours and simply thinking of, you know, leaving the work, whether they were able to achieve that something that day or not, irrespective of that. So what I'm trying to understand, and this is what I really enjoy finding in people, where does that come from? Like, did you grow up maybe seeing your parents work that hard? Or is that. And that could be something. That could be something different entirely. That's what I'm trying to find out from. You.

See, I don't want to set a wrong example of working for 14 hours or 12 hours or 10 hours, but yeah, I think I was able to do that because, and I'm going to be very honest here, because when I started in 2015 as an SDR, I just knew what my responsibilities were, to be honest. Maybe I didn't do enough research or I didn't take the research seriously, that this job is really tough and, you know, it's, it's gonna require, they're gonna be rejections, you know, I, there are gonna be times when I'm gonna get demotivated. So I did not take that too initially. And then I landed in a place where I was like, it's not working. And that was only like five days after my training. I was like, this is not working out. If I share a genuine experience, I think people are gonna go crazy and they're gonna definitely think this girl was really stupid at that time. So what I did, there were days I will think I'll call the prospect. You don't get the response. And I was like, okay. And it works, right? That time, you know, because I was a girl, you leave a voice message, you tend to get a response back from the, you know, prospects. So I was, I used to get a lot of responses. So I used to think, oh my God, if I'm not around my desk, one of my experience, they might respond, you know, answer the call back for me and they might be able to convert it. But then I figured that's not going to work out. I have to accept that. I, you know, I, I. There's a lot that I don't know. And I can either say ignore that, you know, I don't know a lot, or I can do something about it. So I chose to do the latter. I actually always invested 14 hours because I had this thing. I'm very competitive person, to be honest. And I really like achieving because there was a time, and I think this comes from, from my past because I did after my BTech in say 2007, I did work for a good two, three years. I was successful. And then there was seven years gap. There was already a seven years gap. And I did not want to say, you know, delay my progress or growth any further. So I thought what others are doing in seven months time or one year's time, I have to do it in at least six months time, the maximum. I had a timeline set for myself. I didn't know if I could meet that timeline or not. So I started. And especially when I, when I was like feeling initially in this role. I knew, knew that I had to put in a lot of efforts and I didn't like feeling in terms of my role. I mean I'm open to try new things, trying new things and then fail there. But no, not in my role or you know, not in the road. So. So what was happening is I thought there only. There's only one way to do it. If I cannot one year, then I have to do double the work in six months time. That, that is where I think that dedication or that 6, 14 hours or 10 hours work really started. But I think that is something that I was doing hard work and that's not necessary in today's time. You can be smart. There are a lot of information is available out there. I think when I started maybe I wasn't aware of that information or too much information wasn't there to be honest. But now I think we don't really have to spend 14 hours every day. Unless you have goals like me that you want to be successful in one year or six months. But then you.

No, no, I totally get that. An interesting answer. I did not mean that, you know, you have to work that long. I meant to say that, you know, you're generally a hard worker. So I wanted to understand where does this come from? So I think I got the answer because.

Yeah. And why I'm still able to do it because it worked for me. Then I was able to say get the promotion in six months time. And that kept me going. And then my next target was all becoming a manager. Now usually again I did my research how much time usually a manager takes or kill to manage promotion would take. Then I set a realistic timeline for myself. Hey, I'm gonna prepare myself or be ready with all the expectations that is there from. From a manager in this much time in this time period. And after that, of course an opportunity needs to be there as well. But I told myself I'm gonna be ready within that time for that role. I still do that. I got promoted to the SDM manager in Jan, but I'm already thinking about my next goal. So yeah, that what keeps me going.

Okay, interesting. So I'm not sure if you realize that, but I'm pretty sure people would be able to guess your age by the time this interview goes out.

Some of my gray hair there is this. It's all visible. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I don't mind, you know, talking about my age.

This was truly interesting. I think a lot of people can definitely make good use of it as to when especially people who are actually doing this role for the first time, they can get this thing straight. Like, you know, it's not about always the hard work. And like you said, it's. I think people are kind of inundated with a lot of information. So while we say there's a lot of information out there, but if you don't know how to use it, then again you will end up working hard. So hard work is for me, smart work is investing, knowing you know where to put your hard work. Right. So that comes with a lot of experience. Sometimes that comes with either you can take either. You can, you know, do what you. What you did. For example, your life is by your own, your own mistakes. Or maybe maybe learn from, let's say a podcast like this or people learning from people who have already been in those shoes and not may make the same mistakes again. Right. That actually brings us to the last part of the interview. Mariadha, which is the famous, you know, rapid fire. Okay, let me know when you're ready. That's. That's the whole purpose. You don't have to be prepared for it. I'm going to start with easy and then we're going to be going to begin to pull the lever. Okay, ready? Okay. What's your favorite movie?

I. To be honest, I don't really have any favorite movie. I feel that.

Okay, what's your favorite series? TV series?

I. I do like Avatar series. I really like it.

Yeah, there's series two for Avatar.

No, it's not the movie Avatar. It's a different series.

Okay. It's a different series. It's like anime or something.

Yeah, it's animated. Correct.

Oh, okay. Got it. Okay. One thing you love about your control. Sorry, you were saying?

No, I was saying that is something I can go back to and keep watching again. But yeah, I don't really have anything specific. Favorite. What do I like about my current role? I think enabling my team to be more successful. They are already a bunch of great SCRs, but pushing them to do even better day after day or month after month. That's what I enjoy.

Okay, that brings me to the next question. What do you hate about the role?

I don't. To be honest, I don't. I don't hate anything about this role. It's just that what I hate about. It's not the role. It's just that I am not able to balance, you know, where to, you know, stop or the. Especially with the pandemic going work is the only thing, you know that interest all of us. So I think I'm not able to draw like, you know, line between the person and the professional life and it gets too much. So, yeah, I think that's something I need to work on. Nothing regarding the role, I think I.

Already know the answer to this. But let's say for the sake of audience, what's your favorite food?

Food? Anything non veg and anything with cheese.

Okay. One city you have to live in for the rest of your life. What would that be? Okay. Yeah. $1 million to spend in one day. What would you do?

See, it depends upon when you ask me that question in today's time. If it's today, I'm not really. I mean, I'm a big spender, to be honest. If you give me, I would love to save, buy something fancy me. And I know I'm gonna say, forget about those things, say one hour later, that kind of person I am. But in today's time, if we have to talk about it, I think especially the conditions that we have in India currently, maybe to help someone, you know, use that money in a way that can help someone save someone's life.

Wow, okay, nice. That may other change for sure for this time.

Otherwise I have my stuff I want to buy.

No, I'm pretty sure error.

And you ask me that question again, you're going to get a different answer.

Sure. I think the final question I'm sure everybody is probably thinking is how can they contact you if they were to apply for the SDR role and how does the typical interview process look like?

I think firstly learn about the SDR role. What is required, what would an SDR do and what would you do? If I'm your prospect, how would you try to reach out to me? Do that research and you can find me.

Okay. Maybe the best way to contact you is in LinkedIn.

I mean, it is there, but I didn't want to say because that's obvious. And if you are say really what I say, you know, stand out, reach out to me and figure out a way how you want to do it.

Okay. I think, yeah, let's keep that. That way is kind of open. Interesting.

Some SDRs who are doing it for the first time. Yeah. Reach out to me on LinkedIn or. Yeah, we also have job opening on LinkedIn, LinkedIn or on our company website. You can find it.

Sure. Let's not give them the email address. Let them find it for you.

Yes.

Okay. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, Mariada, for being on the show. We truly, truly enjoyed it.

Thanks for having me around.

Thanks for watching this video. If you like the video a teeny tiny bit. Would you like the video? Subscribe to the channel and tell me what you like. Throw your best insult at me. If you did not like any part and you would want me to improve. I promise you will not offend me. Seems like too much work, right? Let's start with subscribing and let me know in the comments what I should cover next. Thanks again.