Comfort Zones with Allon Khakshouri

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Hi, this is Dr. Patrick Cohn with Peak Performance Sports and SportsPsychologyTennis.com I'm talking with Ellen Khachori. Today. Alon managed three world number one tennis players, including Novak Djokovic. And he's also organized his own professional ATP events in three countries that attracted Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Thanks for joining me, Elan.

Thank you very much. I'm really honored to be a guest of your show.

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So you've been around some of the big wigs in tennis, right? A lot of the guys. Do you feel like those guys have big egos when they're off the court or are they pretty cool guys?

I would say they're very different. You have very many different types. Let me give you an example. Rafael Nadal, he's such a warrior on the court, but he's probably one of the nicest people off the court that I have ever met. Definitely. I've met some guys with huge egos. I've met some guys who are relatively humble. They're all very exceptional personalities, that's for sure.

And it seems like Novak is back on top of his game. He's playing good a game. He kind of went through a slump there for him. He kind of went through a slump little bit. And now he's regained his form.

Yeah. You know, I think in London, I think that was a bit of a setback for him. But he started the year quite strong. We shouldn't forget that. He had an injury. He was out for a while and then he came back super strong.

Yes.

He also has a family, he has kids. You know, like it's, it's not easy to keep that intensity and that consistency.

Yeah. So let me ask you about that because that's pretty interesting topic in and of itself about when players get married and they have, have kids. Do you feel like the priority changes for those athletes like Nadal? He's still unmarried. Right. Or he's actually got a fiance, but we know just got married. Okay. And then we know Federer and Djokovic, you know, they have families now. Once those high level players have families, does the priorities change? In terms of will family really becomes first? Does that affect the motivation or drive, or is it just the opposite? They're more driven, you know, once they have that team around them in terms of their family, their wife and their kids.

I think it's a case by case situation. But let me break down into two parts. First of all, I'm now a father of two kids, and we all know that comes with huge responsibilities and it's a big life change. So I'm sure a lot of players, they struggle doing all those things together and often the priorities can shift and family comes first. I think for guys like Federer and Novak, it might even give them more meaning and purpose being tennis players. And it might also take off the pressure. And I know that you've talked about it, and I call it the paradox of winning. You know, on the one hand, we really need to have big goals. We need to be obsessed about doing well. On the other hand, when we step on the court, we need to kind of detach from any specific outcome. Otherwise, like, the pressure can become too much. And I think having a family, having kids, puts tennis into perspective. And in some twisted way, it allows us to enjoy the struggle even more.

If we talk about the top players, the top 10 players out there on the tour, the ATP Tennis Tour, maybe the top five, the big four, if you, you will, we know there's talent, we know there's work ethic, but what about from the mental game? What separates those guys? Because, you know, I know Federer when he was a junior, he was a hothead. You know, he's a self professed hothead when he was younger, but obviously he looks like the most cool, calm guy out there. Just generally from the perspective that you know, of the players, what is it that separates them mentally from guys that are top 100?

That's a great question. You know, I've had the fortune to see very, very gifted, talented kids who adopt the next superstars, never make it in professional tennis or never make it big. And I've seen guys who were a little bit overlooked, who became absolute superstars. And I think mental toughness has several ingredients. But I think what really characterizes guys like Roger, Rafa and Novak is this relentless desire to improve and to do whatever it takes to become better. I think that's what separates them from everyone else. Of course, there are details and mental toughness tweaks and strategies that they do better. But what really fascinates me with these guys, they're always thinking, how can I get another edge? How can I Play even better in the upcoming season. What can I do to improve physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally? And I can share with you, for example, Nowak, you know, there were different stages. He was a decent junior then, quite a good junior, then an early top hundred player, top 50 player. And I remember in 2010 he was playing Nadal at the US Open final and he had won one Grand Slam. But generally speaking, the guys like Federer, Nadal were better players. And he lost to Nadal in the final of the U.S. open. And you could see how devastated he was. And he realized that he had to change something to become a better tennis player. And then later we heard about him changing his diet, changing his fitness coach, starting mindfulness exercises. So again, it's this relentless desire to keep wanting to improve.

Wow. So, as you know, I work with a lot of junior tennis players, young, up and coming tennis players, not on tour, obviously, not even really playing anything substantial, but just banging it out in the juniors. Right. And I deal with a lot of parents as well. Let's talk about a couple specific issues that I see quite a bit that I'm sure you're very familiar with. One is players who tend to, they have a hard time playing younger players or players that are not as highly ranked as them. So I find a lot of players get the most nervous when they have to go play someone that's underneath them that's, that's not as strong as them. Have you seen that dynamic? And what's that all about?

I have, I've, I've had some, I managed some top junior players and it was interesting when they did quite well in juniors, but some of them never won junior Slams at the age of 15, decided they didn't want to play junior tennis anymore, they wanted to play ITF events. And of course you and me know the reason, because they wanted to avoid the pressure of playing young players and avoid the pressure of being expected to do well. And I think one thing we struggle with is when we have high expectations of ourselves or other people place high expectations on ourselves and we can't control the outcome. We can't determine for sure if we will win or, or not. And that causes a lot of pressure. I read a very interesting study which is a bit unrelated, but I think it's interesting. It's from an Israeli sports psychologist called Michael Bar Eli, and it's about soccer, so bear with me for a second. He made some statistics and first of all, he realized that in soccer the safest place to kick a ball is either the top left or the top right corner. Sorry, but very few players are presented. Wise players don't hit, go for those corners that often. Because what he found was they were scared to miss the ball, to hit above the goal rather than in the hands of the goalie, and that would make them look foolish. And on the other hand, one of the safest places for a goalie to stand was not to move, because often players would kick the ball relatively close to the middle and then the goalie would have a good chance to catch the ball. But nevertheless, goalies would often or usually pick one side or the other because they didn't want to look lazy. And what I'm trying to say here is that one of our biggest fears is to look foolish. And because of that we do irrational things. And for some reason we have this perception. Losing to a younger player will make me look foolish. And of course that can make us feel very nervous.

Yes. So it really comes down to the embarrassment. Worry about what others think, feeling that others are going to think that they're underperforming if they can't beat that player.

Exactly. And we often also think we can mind read other people and we imagine all the things that people will think and say about us if those circumstances happen. And often that's not even true.

Okay, so what have you told those players that you've managed? How do you get them past that?

Look, and I'll do another tangent before I answer your question directly. Every player I've ever worked with had a situation where they faced a lot of pressure and they struggled. Now, some people, some players get over this quicker, some slower, and some never. And ultimately, and this is a concept that is hard to grasp, but it's actually quite simple. Ultimately, a tennis player has to enjoy competing. Competing means sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The only thing you can control is your own attitude, your ability to learn from setbacks, to build confidence from wins. And once you understand this and once you can really start thriving for the battle, like enjoying the competitiveness of a match, that's when you stop worrying about all these things. But as long as you depend on a specific outcome, then of course you're going to worry what happens if you win or if you lose. And I'd like to add one more thing, because parents, you mentioned parents, and I know you work with parents. It is so crucial for parents and coaches to create a psychologically safe environment for a tennis player so that a player knows, regardless of how he plays, regardless of his mistakes, he'll always be accepted for who he is. And he can always express his fears. He can always feel physically safe around the people he cares and that they have his best interest in mind.

Yes. Super important how athletes are raised and the interaction that they have with their parents and how supportive the parents are. Yeah. Another scenario I see quite a bit in tennis, and I think we see this at every level. Juniors to ITF to college players to even the pros. Sometimes I put it under this category of comfort zones, meaning sometimes athletes, or in this case, tennis players, will get up by, I don't know, 5:2 in the set. Maybe it's their second set, maybe they've won the first set, or Maybe it's their 52 in the first set, and all of a sudden they change their style. They go into protect mode. They slam on the brakes and they try to just start. They start hitting the ball down the middle, not wanting to miss, waiting for the opponent to miss. So they go into this protect mode of just kind of, oh, I'm just going to coast it in from here, or I don't want to make a lot of mistakes. And so I put it under this category of a comfort zone that they're a little bit uncomfortable with that type of lead. And I think a lot of the fear is associated with, oh, it would be so awful, it would be so embarrassing if I blew a 51 or a 52 lead and let this guy or gal come back on me. Have you seen that phenomenon a lot? I see it a lot in tennis.

I see it all the time. And it's the classical scenario of choking. And what happens is that a player cares so much about winning that suddenly he has all these thoughts, oh, my God, I don't want to mess this up. And as you know, these tennis players, they play a very natural game. They train so hard, they don't need to think about how to hit a forehand or a backhand. But in these moments, they start to overthink. They start to think, okay, now I shouldn't do a double fold. And they start thinking about the motion of their serve, which naturally happened that natural. That usually happens naturally. And of course, what happens, they tighten up. And it's like when I tell you, don't think of the pink elephant, you start thinking of the pink elephant. So when they think, don't double fold now, they start double folding. Or when they start thinking, don't make a mistake, they start playing very defensive. And what happens? A, they lose the aggressiveness to their game, and B, they start making more mistakes. So it backfires in two ways. And so in those situations, of course, it's again important to do what I call the paradox of winning, which is to completely detach from a specific outcome and to just focus on being present, being in the moment, and enjoying the competitive environment and putting things into perspective. I know this sounds weird, but telling oneself when one is really nervous. This is just a tennis match and all I can do is give my very best.

Yeah, yeah. I tell them, you got to continue the game that got you in that winning position. You got to continue to play aggressive, go for your shots, close out the points quickly, continue to play aggressive and don't go into that defensive mode. But you're absolutely right about detaching yourself from winning or losing. And I think so many kids are have their head wrapped around winning like they need to win. So many of my clients that I work with, it's all about, I gotta win. They don't understand that it's focusing on the process that brings winning. It's focusing on one set, one game, one point at a time, that's actually going to bring that about. So they tend to go about their competition in a backwards way.

Absolutely. And one book that I recommend, any young player and any parent of players and any coach, is the book Mindset from Carol Dweck. And have you heard of Carol Dweck?

Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Maybe, you know, one of her famous studies was that she took a group of kids and they got a very easy riddle. It's a four part test. And half of the group, they were praised with a growth mindset. They were told things like, wow, you work so hard. You see, when you work hard, you can achieve whatever you want. And the other half were praised with a fixed mindset. They were told things like, you're so gifted, you're talented, you're the best. Then all of the kids were offered either a difficult riddle or an easy riddle. And the kids from the growth mindset, most of them preferred the hard riddle. They wanted the challenge, they enjoyed the challenge. Those from the fixed mindset, they preferred the easy challenge because they didn't want to mess up. Then in the third part, all the kids got a very difficult challenge, one that they wouldn't be able to solve. The kids from the growth mindset persisted longer and enjoyed the challenge more. The guys from the fixed mindset gave up earlier and they didn't try as hard. And then the most interesting part, in the end, they all got a very easy riddle Again. The kids from the growth mindset did better this time. The kids from the fixed mindset did less well than the first try. And so just the way how we praise ourselves, the way how we think about success, whether we see it as the result of hard work and effort or fix natural traits that we have to be born with really can affect our performance.

Yeah, super, super important. And I love the stuff that Galloway came out with. I mean, he was like one of the first people to come out with books on the mental game, the Inner game of tennis. Such a great book talking about self one and self two. He was a pioneer, really. He was a pioneer with that approach and talking about how the overcoaching, the self coaching, the overthinking can really get in the way of playing freely and playing athletically out there on the court.

Absolutely. And what I like to say is we need to think less on the court and more off the court. Because off the court, what I realize often is that players, they don't align enough to their goals. They don't have clarity exactly what it is they want to achieve. For example, one of the biggest, best motivators, I think, to play tennis and one of the biggest benefits is something that Jim Lehr talks a lot about. It's about character development. If we really see tennis as a means to develop the character traits that we want to develop, whether it's personal character traits or performance character traits, then that can be such a amazing intrinsic form of motivation. And regardless of if we win or lose, we become winners.

Yeah. Excellent, excellent tips, excellent ideas. If you'd like to find out more about Elan, check out his website. He's got some blogs there on the mental game of tennis. And that's exactly the name of his website. Mental gameoftennis.com Alon, thanks for joining me today.

Thank you so much. It was a great joy talking to you.

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