"Locker Room Power" with David Sammel

Welcome to the Tennis Psychology Podcast with your host, Dr. Patrick Cohn. Dr. Cohn is a mental game of tennis expert. Do you want to improve your mental toughness for tennis? Then join us on the Tennis Psychology Podcast sessions with Doc.

Hi. This is Dr. Patrick Cohn with the Tennis Psychology Podcast. Today I have a special guest. His name is David Samuel. He was named a world top 50 coach by Nike from 96 to 2002. He's also been named the national coach for the Men Lawn Tennis Association. Currently he's at the Academy, the High Performance Tennis center in Bath. David, thanks for joining me.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Bath is an academy in the uk, in England.

Right, right. I'm not sure we have a bath over here, but we may somewhere. But yeah, so that's great. So you do a lot of your teaching, a lot of your coaching there out of the uk?

Yes, yes. I went to college in the States and then played professional tennis and met my wife, who is English and eventually settled in Britain. I played a lot of club tennis in Europe, certainly in the 80s, unless you were a very top pro. The way to make a living was to play German and French or Dutch league. So I played for Dutch club for many years, which was, you know, the stability of my income whilst I, you know, played, you know, tournaments around the work. I mean, the playing for the club.

And so you coach amateurs and professionals today?

No, I work well, yes. I mean, I work with some international juniors that are part of our program, but the bulk of my work is with professional players.

Okay, great. So let's get into it. You're the author of a new book, I assume, that came out recently, called Locker Room Power. Talk to me a little bit about the philosophy around locker room power, which I'm understanding is really more of the mental and the mental game components tennis.

Yes.

I think the easiest way to explain locker room power is this is my contention and belief, and I've seen it manifested many times, is if a young player is coming through and they play against a top player, so, you know, against a Fedra or Nadal and they hit an approach shot and Federer hits a good passing shot because it's Roger Federer hitting that passing shot, there's a little bit of panic, a little bit of hesitation that, oh my goodness, you know, what a great shot of my approach. And I contend that if, if he was playing against Joe Bloggs, he would instinctively just go for that shot and, and, and, and make the volley. So but because of that very slight hesitation and almost like panic that Such a good shot has come because it's Roger Federer and, and I call that Roger Federer's locker room power. And it's the mojo, you know, the, the, the aura that, that top performers have around them that actually create nervousness and fear an opponent. And you can actually actively work to build your locker room power.

So it's almost a level of intimidation. Would you say that other players, when you have locker room power, you're going to feel some level of intimidation being around these players?

Yes. And in Agassiz's book, he talks about the time he goes to Paris for the French Open, and he said, you know, walk in the locker room, I knew I was the alpha male, I was the guy to beat. And, you know, it's almost an aura of slight invincibility which Novak Djokovic has at the moment, where everybody is fearful of that player.

But what actually gives them and gives.

People locker room power? Well, I'm a very big believer that the first thing if you want to build locker room power is you need to know what your strengths are. And I think a player, you know, needs to have a minimum of two weapons. And if you're working with a player as a coach and, or if you're a player, it's very, very important to work on your weapons until they are so good that at whatever level you playing, they are the two things that people will talk about that you have, and they're the two things that people are afraid of. So if you take someone like Nadal, you know, every player goes into a match against Nadal knowing that you're not going to out effort this guy, you know, he's going to be there from beginning to end. Okay? And if you happen to lose a first set, seven, six or something like that, the road back is so, so long and hard because this guy is not going to give you anything from beginning to end. And that mentality is in itself a weapon. So it doesn't always have to be a stroke. You know, in the, in the case of Sampras, for sure, the serve was major weapon. You know, his movement was a big weapon, you know, as were his volleys. So, you know, players have, you know, weapons, and everybody in history, in all sports are always remembered for the things they did incredibly well for their weapons. They're not really remembered ever for their weaknesses.

So you have, you have your formula. You talk about the desire plus weapons plus belief plus results equal locker room power. So, yes, so the desire sounds like it's more on the practice habits, the desire to be the best that you can be. And then the belief to me, you've addressed the weapons. The belief to me sounds like belief in your ability. A belief that if you're down in a match, you can come back. If you're up in a match, you can close the match out. But you're also adding this idea of you got to get results. You have to have results to have this locker room power. What about if you don't? Sorry, what about if you don't have results?

You have to keep working at your weapons, getting better to the point where you start to get results, because, you know, it's all about improving, you know, and going through this process and getting better and better at what you do till you get results. Because ultimately in life, if you are very good, but actually never, ever win, you're never going to create any fear in anybody. Yeah, he's got a great forehand, he's got great footwork, but when it comes to crunch, he never wins. You know, she never wins. So you cannot create fear by never winning. You do ultimately have to get results, but I'm saying the pathway to those results is in building your weapons and creating fear in opponents, or at least nervousness in opponents because of what they know they're going to get from you. Now, I don't say never work on your weaknesses, but I say this. Your weaknesses only have to be good enough for you to actually be able to use your weapons as long as they can keep you in the points long enough so that you can use your weapons.

You know, if.

As a boxer, your defense is good enough that you. That you don't get knocked out really early before you can use your great upper, you know, left hook or whatever it is that they've got. Your weaknesses only have to be good enough to keep you in contention so you can actually use your weapons. Now, if your web, if your weaknesses are so weak that, you know, you know, as an example, I'd say, like, you know, Andy Roddick in his time, you know, everybody knew the backhand was, you know, a much weaker side. But most against most players, they could not exploit his backhand well enough or long enough for him not to be able to use, obviously his serve and his forehand. But there were players that were able to exploit that weakness to the point where he was not able to use his weapons as effectively and, you know, wasn't able to beat certain players like Ephedra, you know, as much as he would have liked.

What happens when you have two players, David, that have the equal locker room power like we saw with, you know, Federer and Djokovic, I think in Rome. Do they play the finals in Rome? When you have, when you have two, two greats clashing, how does the locker room power play out in.

In my opinion that during the course of the tournament, one of the players starts to get just a tiny edge. They're either playing very, very well, very, very much on the top of their game or they're just little things that go on, you know, behind the scenes in terms of confidence in that where one player has just a slightly greater belief in what they're doing at that moment in time to, to, to have a slightly bigger locker room power or, and this is where sport is just spine tingling. You get two people with amazing locker room power, both at the peak of their powers and you just get a great titanic battle. And it's either a little bit of luck or in the final moments of that match, one player finds just a little bit more, you know, belief or certainty or just takes a risk that comes off and you just have this magical match. And we've seen some, you know, amazing, you know, finals. I remember the Nadal Fedra Wimbledon final toe for hours and hours and you know, you've had Nadal Djokovic toe to toe for hours and not neither play or bend. And then it's usually actually just a little bit of momentum or like, you know, in the key moments that, that decide the match. And I think that's what people really love to see when you get two players at the peak of their powers and, and neither one will bend. And that's why, you know, with these top players, if they lose a match like that, the very next tournament in the same situation, they don't feel like they're the underdog in any way. They just know that on the day the matter will be settled.

But I would venture to say that.

The lower the levels that you go, the more matches are decided before players even walk on the court.

You said one aspect of locker room power is this idea of how to prepare like a pro. What are some of the tenants there of preparing mentally for a match? How do you boost your locker room power in essence to get ready for a match?

These are the steps that I think are incredibly important in the mental preparation. First of all, you need to be clear in your head what your weapons are.

And then it's very, very important to plan what I call statements of intent. So for instance, if you have a very good two handed backhand early return, I would say you plan in your mind that the first time you get a second serve to the deuce court, you're going to take on that second serve and follow it to the net and tell the guy, I'm coming at you. Any second serve, watch out, I'm coming at you. And if you plan these in your mind before you go on court, there is much more chance that you're going.

To actually do it and use your.

Weapons as statements of intent.

It's like a match plan.

Yes, yes.

But I think it's always very important to get in your head that you have to hurt your opponent and use your weapons to make a statement early in a match that says, this is.

What I've got and this is what.

You can expect if from this situation.

You know, and you know, it's like.

If you've got a very big serve, don't start the match serving three quarter serves, you know, I'd say first point.

Of the match, you know, put one through, you know, right at him as hard as you can.

If you've got a huge serve, just.

To let them know I've got the heat and it's coming straight at you.

You know, and then obviously you got to be smart in how much you use the big heater and stuff, but you've always got to let people know that with a statement of what you've got.

I could see some players overdoing that. In other words, going out there and trying to hit the big serve, trying a little bit too hard to display their weapons.

Yes, absolutely. And that's something that we call experience and in learning exactly when the best.

Occasions are for you to use your weapons.

And you know, this is something that all players have to learn through experience, you know, to not overplay their weapons because players will get used to it.

So if you got a great big.

Flat serve and you keep hitting it, you know, by probably the end of the first set, middle of the second set, you know, the guy will be reading you a little bit and keying in and hitting some great returns and really negating your weapon completely. So, you know, the player has to learn that even if you've got a great flat T serve or whatever, you can't use it all the time because they'll get used to it. So, and that is, you know, the coach's job to help the player learn the best ways to use their weapons and the player also to learn this through hard earned experience. You know, there's no shortcut in top sport to learning experience. And you know, I do Have a saying that to be a top competitor, you need to be 28 in your head. Now, you know, somebody like Rafa Nadal was 28 in his head at 18. Some people are 28 when they're 28. And this is on, you know, on maturity in the sport. And as coaches, you're trying very hard to get players to that age of 28 as soon as possible when they're 22 or 24 or 26, that you're trying to speed up that experience and mentality of a player, obviously as fast as possible. And some get it a lot quicker than others.

Is that part of winning the game before it's begun, that maturity?

Yes, I think.

I mean, one of the things I.

Also will say is this is most players, especially when they're trying to break a different level, underestimate themselves and overestimate their opponents. And I think another big part of preparation is for the player to really try to get themselves to a point where we say, look, I'm not going to prejudge this. I'm going to go out and play hard and find out how good this guy is or this girl is. And this is a mental discipline that players get better and better at to the point where they just go out and play tennis as hard as they can and see what happens on the day. And, you know, the great competitors are able to do this better than. Than the less sophisticated competitors. And, you know, so many players will just assume if somebody's seeded or their rankings a lot higher, that they will be better than them. And they go in as the underdog without actually knowing for sure if they are the underdog, they just assume it because of the ranking and therefore often overestimate the opponent and underestimate themselves. And in trying to overplay and feel like they've got to play better than normal to beat this person, they overplay and don't actually take test not only their opponent, but where they actually are. When I talk about belief as well, someone like Novak Djokovic, when he first played Rafa Nadal, I don't believe for a minute he was thinking that he was going to win the match, but he would play that match with the belief that he could win it and.

Put everything he knew on the court.

To find out the. How good Nadal was. So, you know, as an example, he plays Nadal, he loses pretty comfortably and. And he comes off the court and says, I think I know how to beat this guy. And people, you know, laugh at him.

You know, you know, you got killed.

How can you say. But he's thinking in his mind, if my backhand down the line was better, I think I can hurt this guy. So he goes out and practices and gets a better backhand down the line. Then he plays Nadal again and plays the backhand down the line much, much better. And Nadal comes up with a great cross court backhand more often than he would like. Still loses the match, but he finds out that Nadal's backhand cross court is better than he thought it was, and that backhand down the line needs to be played even a little better and maybe not so often. And slowly figures out how to beat the person each time playing them, believing that he's opening the door to beat this person. But he finds out exactly where his game is versus a Nadal and slowly builds his game to the point where he actually does beat Nadal. And you know, as a player, you have to accept that there is often a process of learning how to, how to beat somebody. And it might take three, four, five times, but if you come off the.

Court and you feel like, oh my.

God, I've lost the game, what can I do against this guy?

You're not really thinking clearly about what.

Happened out there and say, what can I improve in my game that's going to trouble him some more and get better at that so that the next time you play him, you are an improved player and it might not be good enough the next time, but slowly but surely you close that gap and in the meantime are becoming a much better tennis player yourself.

Well, one of the challenges we see in junior tennis is an athlete or a player that will lose the first set, say 75 or 76 in a tiebreaker, and then the second set, they lose.06.

Yes.

So what's up with that in terms of locker room power? Obviously, not a lot of locker room power if you just kind of give up in the second set or tank.

Yes.

Well, the thing, the thing again is.

Is when, when players understand locker room.

Power, then on the court, they, they.

Realize and hopefully will understand that if they chuck the second set or withdraw effort and don't really fight to win the second set, that they're actually losing locker room power and therefore making their job harder. Locker room power makes your job easier. For instance, for a player to win a tournament, let's say it's five matches to win the tournament, it's a lot easier if two or three of those matches you win before you go on the court and you have to fight like hell for two if you've got locker room power, that happens a lot. If you don't have locker room power and every single person believes 100% that they can, they can beat you, you now have to fight through five matches and that is very, very energy consuming.

And a lot, lot more difficult.

You know, I have seen this as.

Players go up levels is you get.

To a point where you win enough matches at a level and the better players at that level, it suddenly becomes okay to lose to you.

You're one of them. And therefore if they're not feeling that.

Honored on the day and you're playing well and they get behind everything like that, they, they don't fight tooth and nail. But if they, if you've got no locker room power and they don't believe you belong at that level, in their mind they're thinking, I can't lose this guy. I got to just fight and fight and wait for him to lose his way or get nervous or choke. So they just hang in and hang in and hang in. And that makes them much more difficult to beat. So going back to the junior, they.

Need to understand that if you fight.

From beginning to end, even if you, you can lose a set six love, but your opponent knows that that was.

Not an easy six love you were.

Fighting the whole way.

And that helps build your locker room.

Power because when they play against you the next time, they know that you will try from beginning to end. And you know that that is, that is important first step to building locker room power. Sorry, go ahead.

Sorry to interrupt.

Yeah. The second thing I would say about a player that fades like that is, and, and it's a crazy phenomenon. You know, in tennis and sometimes in sport, a player will lose 7 6, 76 or 7 5, 76 and be absolutely gutted that they lost. Disappointed, tears a lot, yet they'll lose 6 2, 62 and be almost okay with it. Like in getting much closer, it hurts more to lose than if you get killed.

Yes.

And you know, I will often say to players, hold on a second. The whole point is to be close. And if you lose 757 6, you are so close to beating this person. It's a wonderful place to be.

Not saying it was wonderful to lose.

But it's a far better place to.

Be than getting killed.

Turn two, where you're actually quite a long way away from that person. And try to explain to players that losing a close match means you're close to that person. And the next time you play them, if you're a little bit better you got a very good chance of beating them. You should really be more upset if you get killed because it means you've got a lot more work to do and you're a lot further behind than possibly you thought. So, you know, in getting these perspectives into players, and I'm by no means saying this is easy because, you know, I've been around a long, long time. It sometimes takes players many less, many times learning the same lesson before they actually learn it. But you have to persevere as the coach in trying to get these perspectives into the player that, you know, 75 means you were really, really close. Make the Guy beat you 75 again, and you know what you might find? You know, he's not ready to fight that hard for that long because you don't know what's going on in the other person's head. And, you know, if you go four or five all with him again, he might just suddenly blow and have had enough or get tired or. There are many things that can happen. The longer you stay out there, you're giving yourself a better chance.

One last question. What about those players that don't have the locker room power yet, and they have to go up against a stronger player like Serena or someone like Nadal, and somehow they beat them. They put Serena out early or they put Nadal out early in the tournament, but they didn't have the locker room power that the top players did, but they were able to break through. How is that so? Or is it just the player with a lot of locker room power is just not playing well?

What I find generally in these situations is the player at a lower level who is performing so well is playing as well as they can play. And the player with a lot of locker room power, the great player, is a little off their game. And, you know, the margins are not massive. The margins are quite small. So if. If, you know, if a player, you know, like Darcis, when he beat Nadal at Wimbledon, is playing at the top of his game and Nadal is not, and you know, a top player will always wait for a player to blow out. So if they're playing lights out, they hang in and hang in and say, he's gonna get nervous, he's gonna wake up and he's gonna start a miss, and then I will take over. And that's generally what happens. But you get the odd occasions where the player does not lose their momentum. They keep playing lights out and.

And then the top player can panic as well. Is like, you know, this shouldn't happen.

He should, you know, throw in the.

Odd double fault or you know, that.

Backhand should miss and, and, and in that panic the player, the, the top player gets a bit tight and, and you get the upset. What I will say for the difference between what I say, a one off upset and a player that's genuinely coming because when a younger player beats a top player, so like a Kyrgios beat Nadal last year at Wimbledon, the whole tour sits and waits to see if that person's for real. In other words, are they going to back it up? Are they going to keep coming out and you know, not always winning but playing with the same enthusiasm, the same desire. Are they getting better all the time? Are they looking like they're building, building to be part of an elite group and you know, the tour will watch and see if they for real and if they keep backing it up then eventually they get, you know, the ranking rises and they get accepted as one of them and then it's kind of okay to lose to them. If, if they're, if they're playing, you know, really, really well and, and, and, and they're a little off their game, you know, they will fight because these are champions that will always fight. But it's a different fighting against a player that you really feel you should not lose to, to playing somebody who is your peer who just on the day you know, seems to be, you know, just playing extremely well. And maybe it's just better on the day they're a little bit more accepting of that than, than losing to a lesser player. So a lesser player, I mean that's the hard hump to overcome is you've got to back it up and get enough results that whatever, whatever level you break into, people start to realize that you for real and that you're there to stay. And that's the tough part. You know, breaking through is one thing, staying there is another, you know, and proving that you belong there consistently.

The website is Locker Room Power Simply Locker Room Power.com Locker Room Power.com youm can go read more about David's new book on the mental game. I've been talking with David Samuel. He's been coaching top juniors and professionals for over 25 years and he's currently coaching at the High Performance Tennis center in Bath UK in partnership with Bath University. David, we could go on all day, but I'm sure you don't have all day. I really thank you for your time and being on the tennis Psychology podcast.

Thank you very much for your time.

And thanks for having me on the.

Show and best of luck with everything.

Same to you. Thanks.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the Tennis psychology podcast with Dr. Patrick Cohn. Discover the secrets to superior tennis confidence. Visit www.sportspsychologytennis.com for practical mental strategies to improve your mental game of tennis.