134. “I make $24K a year but my truck costs $1,600+ a month” (Part 2)

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I mean I'm nervous about like the financial stuff. I don't want to do that the rest of my life. Like always have a credit card. I never know where the money went. Always just kind of climb up a ladder for no reason.

It feels like I am in a position where one I am having to prove myself like that I'm worthy of being a partner, that I have to show him that I can be responsible with money in order for him to want to build a life with me. I feel like the root of the problem is that like I don't have a good, a really good sense of like who I am. Like I feel very lost. I don't know, like it's my fault. Like I'm not worth marrying foreign.

Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Becky and Dustin. Just to remind you, at the end of the conversation last week I found out that Dustin made $24,000 last year and yet he bought an F350 that's a huge truck with six tires and I hit my hand on the desk because I was cracking up so much and the video cut out. That's the first time this has happened in over a hundred episodes of this podcast. So we're back. And as a refresher, Becky wrote the application to me. She's frustrated because she moved across the country, moved in with Dustin. She's frustrated that their money is separate, frustrated that he doesn't seem to have money to renovate the house, which is important to her. Frustrated that he hasn't proposed. But Dustin is frustrated because Becky is not keeping up her end of the bargain and paying off her credit card debt as she agreed to. Before we dive into the episode, look back on this year. How well do you think you lived your rich life? I think at this time of year, it's natural to start thinking about our New Year's resolutions. But often we miss an important step, which is to look back on the year and think about what we loved, what we wish we had done more of. I call this an annual Rich Life review. And my wife and I do this at the end of every year. Our rich life reviews have helped us make amazing plans for the upcoming year, like spending months living in New York, traveling, being more generous, and just getting control over our Money. This Saturday, December 16th, in my newsletter, I'll be sharing how to do a rich life review. And you can only get it by signing up@iwt.com podcastnewsletter Here is Becky and Dustin. All right, now listen, I did a little research, okay? A lot of truck guys out there. I'd like you to know that I know what a dually is now. Like, that's what you see on Yellowstone. They're hauling around like 10 horses. Is that true?

I mean, that is what it's for.

Okay. I love that big smile on your face. Like, yeah, that's what it's for. And then what do you haul in your truck?

So, like, skid steers, excavators, materials, what?

I don't even know what any of that is. What's this? What is an excavator?

Heavy machines that dig swimming pools and just earth moving equipment.

All right, this is not getting me the answers that I thought I was going to get, but all right, fine. You got the F350 since we talked, which you filled it up with 200 bucks of gas on Monday. How much have you put into it since then?

Oh, shoot, that was probably two Mondays ago and I just filled up and it was like 180.

1 80. Okay, okay. All right.

It's a lot of money.

What do you do while you're filling up the gas for, like, 25 minutes each time. What do you do while you're. While it's there pumping?

Cry.

All right, so I still don't understand how somebody can afford a $65,000 truck on a $150,000 gross income.

So, no, that was. That's. That's net, what I brought. That's my money.

What?

That's not what the whole business made. That's just my portion of it. That's all the profit.

150 you made? Yeah, last year.

Yeah.

That's different than what I see on this thing.

I mean, I own the business, so, yeah, I mean, I made it. It's my money at the end of the day.

And where is it?

This is the problem in the business.

Account, and I took some of it last year.

How much?

I don't know.

Am I being punked right now? What the hell is happening?

This is the problem. This is why, when we sat down to split our finances, he doesn't know what's his and what's the businesses, and he kind of just takes a little as he needs it.

More than a little, sometimes as I need it or want it.

Okay, and then what about when you need to say, eat?

Used to I would just use the company card and just eat.

So you're taking the company card, you're, like, going up to Chick Fil A or whatever, and you're like, all right, eight bucks. Yeah. Okay. And how does your bookkeeper feel about this?

Oh, it. It's been a fiasco.

They don't like that, huh?

Oh, that's all right.

So you said you netted 150k. You. How much did the business make? Top line or growth?

Top line was 4.99.

Wow. How long ago did you start this business?

10 years.

Okay. That's impressive. Half a million dollars doing pool installs. And. And that was in one year?

Yeah.

So you're making half a million in the last year and the year before.

What was it the year before? It was probably 2 to 250, 300 range. I'd have to look, to be honest.

Okay. Impressive. All right. And you got a nice profit margin.

Okay.

You got the truck. Sounds like the truck's necessary. Fine. This is helping me understand what's going on. I got you. No problem. All right, now you. You yourself. You said you yourself netted 150. Where's the 150?

Some of it's probably still in the business. Some of it's probably in my savings, about a Jeep, things like that.

Okay, your savings has $70,000 and of that, 67 is yours.

So some of it's in there, yeah, should be. Yeah. All right. And then spent some of it, I'm sure. Bought stupid stuff and went places and lived.

Do you mean the Jeep, or is there other stupid stuff?

There's probably a lot of other stupid things.

Okay, we'll get to that. But can we fix this number? Because this is all. You do not make $2,000 a month. That's ridiculous.

I mean, honest. So all this year, all I've done, it automatically drafts to 2000 to cover, like, my fixed expenses.

This is the way that you do it. Okay. We're going to uplevel you here a little bit. Let's just say for easy math, that you would make 100k salary. Let's even say you'd make 150k salary. Okay. On the open market, that's your market rate. And you go, hey, I don't want to pay myself full market rate. I want to pay myself 100k this year. But when I get my business a little bit bigger, I'll pay myself full market rate. Okay? That's how entrepreneurs do it. So you go, all right, I need to give myself. Well, we know exactly how much you need to give yourself, because guess who else in this relationship makes exactly $100,000? That's right, Becky. So why don't we go ahead and just literally copy and paste her information? So now you make 8333. Wow. This actually makes things really easy. Now, I'm not saying this is how you got to make your final numbers, but this makes my job a lot easier. And I'm all for making my job easier. What do you say?

I'm with it.

Ramit just copies and paste, and then he calls it a day. He goes, wow, great job, Ramit. See you later.

So, like, right now, we're gonna say I make $8,300 a month. What if I'm not making the money like I normally like? This year, I'm probably going to be close to, like, 250.

That's a problem.

Do I maintain the same eight grand, or.

You need to pick a number that you can confidently deliver on.

Okay.

All right, watch. So you're. You're both. Your gross is 8,333, for a total of 16,667 per month. Bringing us to. How much is your annual GROSS Household income?

200.

That's a lot of money. Where do you live again?

North Carolina.

How do you all feel about making a lot of money in North Carolina.

Becky probably thinks we don't.

Oh, that's. That's pretty. That's really good.

It's pretty good. Why are you looking like that?

I guess your reaction was a little. I. It kind of caught me off guard because it doesn't feel that good sometimes.

Oh, it doesn't? No. And how much would feel good, Becky?

I don't know. I guess if I was, like, over the hundred mark, I would feel better, you know, like, if I was closer to, like, 120 or 1. Like, between 120 and 150, I think I would feel a little bit better. I don't know why. I don't know if that's a number I made up in my head.

Yeah, you made it up. What do you see on screen right now?

A calculator.

Okay, watch this. I just love what you just said because this is amazing. Watch this. $8333. And you said, you know, I need to be over 100 to feel good. Can we just look at how much? If we add it all up, you make $99,996 per year. You want me to hand you $5 right now? I'll literally venmo it to you. Will that make you feel better about money? No, it won't.

No. I guess in my head, I always thought when I first started looking into going back to school and I saw, like, the range of income, I think a part of me was like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm going to make 100 grand a year. Like, that's a lot. I feel like growing up, like, in the late 80s, early 90s, it was like, you made six figures, like, and I guess now, like, having it, and I still feel like I broke most of the time.

Yeah.

And, like, again, I mean, the logical part of me understands that I'm broke because of my actions. Like, what I do with my money, not what's coming in. There's still just that piece of me that's like. If I just made, like, another one or two grand a month, it would just make such a huge difference.

Can you put that cup down for one second?

Yeah. I'm sorry.

That's okay.

That was my emotional safety cup.

That's okay. So you just said with my head, etc. Etc.

Etc.

Put your hand here. Tell me what you feel about your money right now. $99,996 per year. What do you.

I think I feel a little embarrassed.

Keep it there.

I feel ungrateful.

Ungrateful to whom?

Myself.

Okay, keep going.

I feel, Yeah, I just feel like. Like I'm very fortunate to not only probably make that kind of money, but make it doing something that I genuinely enjoy and that the only thought I have about it is if I had more, I'd be happier.

Wow, that's honest.

Thank you. Think you ever realized that before?

Not that specifically. I know I struggle a lot with just gratitude in general. It's like something I know is really hard for me or that I know causes a lot of my own self inflicted issues, but I didn't realize I specifically felt that about what I make.

Seems to me a lot of what's going on here is about how both of you feel about money individually and with each other.

Yeah, 100%.

I'll suggest some things that I've observed just in this conversation about money. Becky, I think that Dustin doesn't trust you with money. If we're just cutting to the chase. Yeah. And I think that, Becky, he has some legitimate reasons not to trust you because you overspend and you haven't told him about the spending problems for a long time. Stop me if I'm wrong, please. I want to make sure that I'm not saying anything that's inappropriate or inaccurate. Becky, your thoughts?

Fair. Okay, that's fair.

Dustin.

Yeah, I feel like that's fair. When we first met, she said, I'll just give you all my money and you take care of it. She doesn't believe she's good with money.

Exactly. Yeah. Becky, do you see these feelings of self worth, of connection, of do I need to prove myself? They're deep. Nothing we can tackle on one call, but something that you will work on for many years and it will be worth it. There's so much for Becky to dig into here. Personally, I love the opportunity that she's going to get to discover more about herself and her own behavior. What a gift to get to study the most interesting person in the world, yourself. That's the way that I want us to all think about self development. Whether it's coaching, books, podcasts, therapists. This is an opportunity, it's a gift to learn more about herself. So I'm excited for Becky. It's also important because the way that she talks about money and behaves with money and feels about money is being colored and distorted by the way she sees the world. And that includes her own self worth. I really want her to tackle these things because as you heard from her comments about feeling good about money, if she made 100k, quick reminder, she makes $99,996. That's just not true. And much of this is not simply a money problem. It almost never is. We'll be right back. Real question for you. Do you know how often you're supposed to see your primary care physician? How about the dentist? How about a dermatologist? A lot of us just wait to get a text from the dental hygienist to know it's time to make an appointment. But your health is important and we talk about going from defense to offense with your money. What about with your health? Why not make your life easier and Book this year's appointments today with ZocDoc ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. They have over 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health, dental, primary care and more. Just filter for the doctors based on your insurance, your location, even ratings and find a doctor who's a good fit for your needs. Plus Zoc talk appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. Instantly click through your options, book the appointment and you are good to go. If I needed to find a new doctor today, this is what I would use. Stop putting off these doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com ramit to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z O C-O C.com Ramit Zocdoc.com.

Ramit.

When I talk to new business owners, I hear a lot of the same motivations. I want to make extra money. I want more freedom. I want flexibility. But I will tell you something that I've never heard. I want to start a business so I can fill out a bunch of tax forms. That sounds like my hell. The good news is you don't need to be a tax expert to start your own business. Instead, you can use Gusto. This episode's sponsor. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one, it's remote, friendly and it's incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. They offer automatic payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, workers comp 401k matches, you name it, they can help. Plus, it's quick and easy to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data and get up and running fast with no hidden fees and no surprises. Try gusto today@gusto.com ramit and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll@gusto.com ramIt once more. Gusto.com ramit now back to the show. All right, and then down here we got guilt free spending. So this is where the lies happen. How is it possible, Becky, that you went on all these trips and you're telling me you only spend $500 a month on, on this?

Yeah, I probably just added like my, my monthly guilt free spending, like things that are like on automatic. I don't think I went back and.

Looked at like, well, we're definitely not accounting for all your expenses here, which is a real problem. And I suspect, Becky, that's probably where a lot of some of the issues lie. How do we start actually getting accurate numbers here?

Yeah, I guess when I was doing it, I was just thinking what comes like regularly. I didn't even think to add up.

Like holiday trips, anniversary vacation, one off expenses. Yeah. Mistake fees, all that stuff.

Yeah.

Well, let me tell you something, Becky, I think this is important. One of the reasons you feel anxious about money, among others, is that essentially your fixed costs are 71%, which is a lot. And that means by the time we get down here to your guilt free spending, you actually, according to the math, only have 500 bucks a month to spend. And so, you know, what you're doing is you're basically like, I don't care about that. I'm just going to spend what I want. Right?

Yeah.

And then how does that make you feel?

Anxious?

So what do you want to do?

I guess I have to get my fixed costs more comfortable and I probably need to be more aware of like my guilt free spending.

I think that's right.

But what if you got like once you pay off your credit card, you'll have a thousand bucks right there.

Yeah. Which was the whole. The hope. Right. But I mean, I have to get there, which I mean, shouldn't take very long.

You don't do you know?

No, I mean, I have to do the math.

Should we just do it right now?

Sure.

How much you owe on credit cards?

Thought it was like seven something.

Yeah, seven. Just under seven.

And how much are you paying towards those?

I mean, I guess I'm kind of taking the Dustin approach. I try every PayCheck to put 4 or 500amonth or a paycheck.

Excuse me. Do you try to brush your teeth in the morning? Try.

No, I do brush my teeth.

Okay, so then why are you trying to pay off your debt at a certain amount? It's actually easier to automate your debt than to brush your Teeth. What does the word try have to do with paying off debt?

I mean, it doesn't.

Why would you set it up automatically?

I think when I went to do it, I was like, well, I'm going to put it at this amount. And then I had it there for a month. And then that made me nervous because then I was like, know there was already one time where I was like, when the payment was about to come, I didn't have the money. So I was like, I'll just do it when I get paid. Every time, every payday.

Why didn't you have the money? You get paid the same amount every month?

Because I had already spent it on something else.

Ah, guilt free.

Guilt free.

Right, Becky? Yeah, that's true. You had spent it on something that. That was guilt inducing. But part of the guilt free category, you're not paying yourself first. Paying yourself first is talking about savings and investment. And Your debt at 27% is draining everything else from you. So we got to pay that stuff off first and whatever's left. That's why it's at the bottom. Guilt free spending is at the bottom of the CSP because that comes last. Okay, let's look at this. Your monthly payment, you're paying for a thousand dollars a month. You're trying to. Which I don't like trying. I'd rather have you automate $800 a month instead of trying to do a thousand. I don't want trying at all involved. I just want it to happen. All right, let's look at this. I'll do a little calculation here. 7,000 bucks is your balance. I'm going to say 27% on your interest rate because it's probably around there.

There's zero right now.

Really?

They're zero for another six until next July.

So like six, seven months. All right. Okay, that's cool.

Well, let's.

We'll put that in. Let's see what happens. And you're paying a fat wall. This is going to be really good news. So you're going to pay it off in seven months if you pay $1,000. It's just simple math. Okay. But I want to show you what happens if it's 27% interest, which, by the way, if you don't pay it all off, they might retroactively go back and charge, which we do not want. Okay, That'll take you eight months. It's not a huge deal, but you would pay 700 bucks in interest. That would suck. And let's say you're. You end up like sort of doing it, but sort of not. Some months you do, some months you don't. So it ends up being 500 bucks a month. You want to see what happens? It sucks. 18 months to pay this stupid debt off, and you pay over 1,500 bucks in interest. What? Do you notice, Becky?

A lot.

Yeah.

So what's the conclusion?

Just commit to the $1000 and be done with it?

Correct. You want to set it up automatically right now?

Sure.

What's stopping you? I want to make sure I'm not pressuring you into anything.

Nothing. I. I can do that. I can do that. Do I do 500 on each of them? I have two credit cards. Or do I do a thousand on one until it's paid off?

Okay, don't confuse yourself. Hold on. Just listen to me. Listen to me closely. What's the balance on each of them?

One is 3,001 is 4,000.

So does it really matter? If you put five, you have zero percent interest, so that's not a factor. You have seven months to pay these off. So both of them are going to be paid off at $500 a month, right?

Yeah.

Becky got there a lot faster than I did. But we're both here. We're ready to click it. Go ahead. Set up automatic payments. Read it to us.

Becky, you set up automatic payments for your credit card.

Wow. Round of applause. Take the win. What do you say, Becky? How do you feel right now?

Fine.

Wow. All right, well, one of us. One of us had a good time. All right, Dustin, how do you feel?

Great.

All right, we got another one. Becky. Yes, go ahead.

I don't want to pull this one up for you. Not because of the amount, but because of where it's from.

BankofAmerica.com. wow, wow, wow. I couldn't script it better. This is one of my least favorite banks, second only to Wells Fargo. I can't wait for Becky to pay this debt off and close her account so B of A loses yet another I will teach you to be rich customer.

Oh. I mean, it feels like a little bit of weight off my shoulders, just like that's just what it is, and that's where that's going to go. And I don't need to think about it.

Right. All right.

And come June, July, when that's paid off, what are you going to do? What's going to change in your numbers?

Oh, I mean, $1,000 probably going to go to 50%, 55% maybe.

What will that mean for you?

I'll have more guilt Free spending or more money to save. Probably more money to invest.

She.

She means spend.

I mean, you don't need to lie to me. It's your money. It's not going to affect me. I want you to choose. You're going to do what you're going to do. All right, so we're going to take this down to 400. Your fixed costs are now 53%. Now that we're looking at her numbers, without the debt payment, things feel a lot better. We increased her guilt free spending in, increased her investments and her savings goal. But you'll notice that she still doesn't feel good about money. We'll be right back after this. What comes to mind when I share these specific moments? Renewing your passport. Scheduling a dentist appointment. Replacing that light bulb that's been out for six months and you're not sure what's the right bulb. We all procrastinate on weird stuff and taxes are usually right at the top of that list. We wait until the last second, then we get overwhelmed, we gotta pull all this paperwork and we're panicked because the deadline is approaching. That's why I recommend Gilt. Now that tax season's over, this is actually the best time to get ahead. If you run a business or you filed for a tax extension, one small move right now could save you thousands later. Gelt is not just another CPA firm. They helped one of my colleagues rethink his entire tax setup. Now he's saving more than he spends on tax prep. With G, you get a proactive year round strategy, not just a one time filing, credits, deductions, business structure. It's handled. And their tech platform makes it easy to stay organized. You'll also get access to G's full tax library with guides on retirement plans, QBI and more. So if you've got a business or you filed for an extension, this is the window to take control of your tax plan. Head to joingelt.com ramit to book a consultation. And as a member of my community, you get to skip the waitlist. Again, that's joingelt.com ramit join G-E-L-T.com ramit taxes don't have to be a task with Gelt. They can be a tool to build wealth. I know that some of us think better when we write our thoughts out. But for a lot of us, including me, I'm better when I can think out loud. If that's you, I recommend you check out Whisper Flow to save you tons of time to bring your ideas to the page. Whisper Flow turns your voice into clean final draft, writing inside whatever app you're already using. Email, Slack, Docs, even text messages. And it works on Mac, Windows, and iPhone. So instead of spending all of your time responding to messages, especially while sitting at a computer, you can hit a hotkey, speak, and the text appears. It's accurate, it's fast, it's all formatted so you can get back to work. Here's what my friend said about it. Whisper is amazing because it learns the way you speak. So you can send this rambling note as a text message and it kills all the filler words and it perfectly formats it for you. They said it's much better than using the Apple voice to text feature. The spelling is way better. If you want to buy your time back and get back to what matters, check out Whisper Flow. Try it for free at whisperflow AI Ramit. That's whisperflow AI Ramit W, I, S, P, R Flow AI slash ramit. Or click the link in the description below. Now back to Becky and Dustin.

I feel like this is the responsible thing to do. And it will make me actually feel better in this moment right now. I feel a little bit like a little kid who's like, that's not that much fun. Money.

Tell me what you really feel, not what you think you should be saying.

Yeah, I mean, I. When I look at it, I'm just like, that's gonna go really? No, that's not true. When I look at it, I'm like, that's a lot of money. That should be plenty of money to like, spend and have things that I, you know, like and do things we want to do. But there's definitely a piece of me that's like. But I feel like that's gonna go really fast.

And. And how would it go fast? Lay it out for me.

I mean, it's probably, like, frivolous things with me. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't. It's not like I have any.

It's.

It's. I don't know. Dustin would say it's coffee, right? Dustin loves to blame everything on my coffee purchases. But it's probably just mindless. It's not intentional spending. It's just. I just buy things when I think I need them or I want them. But there's no real, like, joy or intention behind it.

The way you're talking about it seems, like, so insulting to yourself. Like, would you talk about a friend like, oh, it's so mindless and you don't Even think about it and it's not even like conscious. Would you say that to a friend?

Probably not.

So why is it so easy to say it to yourself?

I mean, I've mastered self criticism over the last 42 years, I guess.

Yeah. And does it get you anywhere?

I mean, sometimes I feel like it's, I've, you know, accomplished a lot of things probably by telling myself I should do them or should be somewhere, but not particularly.

I hate that word should.

Yeah, I tell my patients not to should all over themselves all the time.

Oh, so you have, you have really good advice that you tell em, but you just don't do it.

Yeah, all the time.

What I hear from you is a lot of self deception. And it makes me sad because for me, if you want to make a change with your money, one of the first things that you have to do is accept what you have been doing and deeply understand why. So when I ask like, hey, how do you feel? If I were you and I was looking at this, I would say I feel like a little child. Which you said. That felt really true. I would say I feel like this is gonna be no fun. I'll say I feel like I can't do this. I feel like I'll be able to do this for two months and I'm gonna go right back to where I was. And I don't know if I believe in myself to be able to do what's on this page.

Yeah, that probably feels more accurate.

But you gave me all these other things. I probably should do that. It's probably responsible. Why'd you give me that? I noticed you're crying as we're talking about this.

I, probably because I'm, I probably a little bit of a now I guess I'm a little bit of like a, like hater, like a people pleaser. Like I, I'm pretty good at giving the right answers or saying what I think people want to hear.

You're not here to impress me. Why are you here? You wrote the application. I mean, you, you have the application here.

Well, for me. I thought you were going to be a lot harder on Dustin. I didn't know.

I know you did.

Yeah, I mean, because I want to change. I, I, you know, it's like I have good self awareness in some ways. Like I, I know that, like that's the problem. I know that I overspend. I, these things. I just, I feel like the root of the problem is that like I don't have a good, I don't know, I have A really good sense of, like, who I am, which sounds so lame at 40 years old, but, like, even, like, trying to go through the workbook and stuff, like, what sounds perfect? Or, you know, it's just like, I don't know. And I think that's probably why, like, it's kind of triggering that I'm just so surrounded by Dustin's house and Dustin's life and Dustin's family, because it's just. I feel very lost. So I think sometimes the spending is not very intentional because I don't really know what, like, really lights me up or brings me joy.

Like, what am I missing? Why am I not happy if I just had $4 more or $4,000 more, if only XYZ. Maybe it's Dustin. Maybe it's this house.

Or is it me? Yeah.

What have you done? As you hear these. These voices in your head, you see these feelings, they kind of circle once in a while. What do you do when you feel those things coming close?

I mean, I don't know. I guess I probably. Sometimes I lash out or.

How do you do that?

Pick a fight?

In your application, you told me that you feel like you have to do everything on Dustin's timetable. And you told me that he had even gone a long time before he said, I love you. How long did he go?

Almost four years.

I want to mean it, and I'm scared. Like, I mean, I'm nervous about, like, the financial stuff. If that's. I. I don't want to do that the rest of my life.

Do that means.

Live that, like, always have a credit card. I ever know where the money went. Always just kind of climb up a ladder for no reason.

Okay, and when you say that, you mean you don't want Becky to have credit card, right? Can we be specific?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I don't want Becky to do that. And that's not like a just for my benefit thing. It's for the team. You know what I mean? Like, because I know she feels certain ways, and there's a lot of stress around. Like, every time she signs on every two. You know, every two weeks to look at her debt, well, maybe she spent more money on it. And now in the morning, I'm going to be in trouble because I slept in.

You find a correlation between the credit card debt payoff and you two getting in fights?

Not necessarily, but possibly if I looked back and had a calendar of, like and jotted it all down, it might correlate. You know what I mean? Okay, so it's like that's alive. I live when we don't have to.

Right.

I got you.

You're not married. So if we're being honest here, each of you cannot control what the other person spends. And so, Becky, what does that make you think?

I don't know.

They.

We have separate decisions to make.

Might it be that you are struggling to make decisions together, but actually it turns out that everything in your life is fairly separate when it comes to your finances?

Yeah, 100%. I didn't know anything about how much he had. I didn't know his business made half as much money this year until five minutes ago.

What? What?

No, I had no idea that he was going to make half as much money. So that's what. I mean, it's like, we just. It's very separate, and I have no idea at any moment what's going on. And he talks sometimes like, we have all this money and we can do all this stuff. And then the next minute, he's like, telling me that I want all this stuff, and I'm gonna put him. You know, I'm gonna drain his bank account for things, you know, that we've talked about spending. Like, it's just very confusing.

Okay, well, why don't you.

Would you like to ask him some questions to clarify? Because if it's confusing, I'm here to help facilitate. I don't want you to be confused. I think you might not like the answers you get, but at least I want you to have some clarity. Are. Are you ready to get some clarity?

Yeah, that's. You know, that was. I kind of became here, I guess.

All right, what do you want to know?

Well, I guess first and foremost, like, why. Why are you gonna make half as much as you made last year?

Because I didn't sell as many pools because of the COVID Times were really great.

Do you genuinely feel like you tried hard to sell pools this year?

I've tried to sell all the pools that people have called me to sell or.

But you didn't do anything to do any marketing. You just. You took all the business that came to you by. By happenstance, but you didn't do anything.

I've never done anything to get to this point.

So just because you've never done it, like, that's okay, that if I just told you tomorrow that I'm going to just work 20 hours a week and bring in half as much money? Like, I mean, is that okay?

No, because we're. My financials are different.

Okay, but what about next year?

I feel like this for me, this is, this is a given thing. Like I could have spent $5,000 and maybe sold three more pools. That's cool. But did it really get me anywhere? No, I've never advertised, I've never spent money on any of that. So I just do what works.

But it didn't work this year. If you made half as much as you made last year, then it didn't work. How do you think that makes me feel? Especially like when, I know we joke about it a lot, but like your hours that you work, work are pretty lax. And so to like find out, like there's other ways to sell and try and make more money than just paying for marketing. I mean, you said yourself last night like, you know, you could do fencing or like, I don't know, like that, that doesn't feel good. Sitting over here knowing that and knowing that you're home every day at 3:30 in the afternoon sitting on the porch. Okay, I'm sorry if that's mean, but that's just like, that doesn't feel good.

And I understand that, that I'm home at 3:30 because I've made half the amount of money because I don't have the work. And I'm trying to figure out a few other things, like where to spend money, like do I hire another guy so I can make a bunch of money or do I want to enjoy my life. And like there's, there's a fine balance. With more money comes more problems, you know. So it's like for me, I'm trying to obviously grow and learn. And also nothing about what I made this year has affected anything in our life. Nothing.

So I guess going forward, I mean, like, what are you going to feel comfortable committing?

I told you the other day, I told you a couple weeks ago, I'm probably going to do 4,000amonth and then I'll write myself a big check at.

The end of the year.

I told you long ago, whatever you want to put in an account, let's do it. If you got five grand to put an account tomorrow, let's go put five grand in an account tomorrow. And if we put 50 cent a week in an account, that'll be our money and we'll put it where we want to put it. I, I've said that multiple times. Like I'm willing to do my portion. I'm not going to bring all of mine to the table to piss it away. I'm not going to wake up in two years and be like, oh, I wonder if we pissed my Money away. And I wonder where it went. And we don't know because that's what's happened for two years. We've made $180,000 and we have nothing. Except you live with me in my world that I help facilitate, take care of things and try to make your life easier for no, for nothing. For you to sit here and say you're going to make half as much money.

Can I step in here for a few. Is that back and forth more typical of the type of conversations you have?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dustin, what would you say? Is that more typical?

It's probably more real. We normally don't get that real. What I would want from it is to understand why me making less has changed drastically our life or something like I don't understand why it's.

What do you want from the relationship?

To be a team and.

But Dustin, the way you described it when you were speaking to her was I don't want to put my money in some. Any more. Money that's going to be pissed away.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to be a teammate with someone who approaches money like that. Okay. Would you. If your partner said, I don't want to put my money any more than this much because it's just going to get pissed away. That's what's been happening for the last two years.

That's. I guess I would understand where they were coming from, that they don't want to just throw money away.

Do you think that there might be a way to say it that can, if you truly want to be a team that might actually make your partner understand you more?

There's probably definitely a better way.

I agree. And I think that the way you said it actually pushes her away. I know it. I could see her body language. Becky, I just want to check in with you. Did that push you away?

Yeah.

I wish I had stepped in earlier. That conversation was frankly a little mean. And I did strongly recommend that both of them see a therapist to help them communicate more effectively. I hear what Dustin is saying, that he wants a partner who is financially responsible. But the way that he approached it and you could see how quickly that escalated, that is no way to communicate with a loved one. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsors. There's this myth that if you rent, it means you haven't made it. I don't really believe that I rent. And I want you to know that you are not a failure if you choose to rent. In fact, I want more freedom right now than buying a 30 year mortgage. But If I'm spending thousands of dollars a month, I want to get some of the perks that homeowners get. And that is where BILT comes in. BILT is a loyalty program for renters. You pay your rent through BILT and you can earn points for it. Think about it. You're earning points for your biggest expense every single month. And you can redeem those built points towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, or even future rent payments. BILT has evolved into a complete rewards ecosystem where you get rewarded for the first time as a renter. And it's easy. Almost any payment method is compatible, so you can start earning right now. I wish I had had this when I first started living in New York. Plus, BILT recently announced that homeowners will be able to get rewarded the same way on their mortgage in 2026. So stay tuned. Join the loyalty program for renters@joinbuilt.com Ramit that's J-O-I-N B I L T.com Ramit and make sure you use our URL so they know that we sent you. AI is supposed to make work easier, but now it seems like you have to hire an AI consultant just to figure out which tool handles what. Are you using AI for writing? Or is there another one to use for meetings? What about one for project planning? And they actually don't talk to each other. That's when things start slowing you down instead of helping you move faster. But Notion, the sponsor of this episode, can help solve that. With Notion, everything is in one place. Clean, simple, easy to use. And now, with Notion AI built right in, it's even more powerful. Enterprise search can pull answers from tools like email, Jira, even PDFs. Research mode writes full reports in minutes and meeting notes, captures and summarizes everything so key decisions don't get lost. No more bouncing between apps, no more guessing where things live. Just one system that keeps things moving. That's why more than half of Fortune 500 companies use Notion. Try Notion AI, the best AI tool for work by going to notion.com ramit that's all lowercase N-O-T-I-O-N.com R A M I T notion.com ramit let's get back to the show. I'm trying to give you the tools to be able to actually connect emotionally. Trust me when I say that you getting some spreadsheet together is not going to change anything about your relationship. Do you both see that it's not the numbers that are stopping you from being connected? Becky could pay off her credit card debt in exactly seven months, which she will. It would not change a thing about this relationship. Dustin could double his business income. Would not change a single thing about this relationship. Why?

That's not about the money.

I guess that's how I really feel, but I'm probably not good at conveying it, obviously. Yeah. Because that's how I feel. Like I feel. I guess it just makes me anxious. Like, just doing it and then not knowing and not having the plan and my understanding and everybody being on board. But what.

What I didn't hear is, like, what you actually want. You're anxious. Things feel bad. But what I heard you is fixating on all the bad stuff and not talking about any of the good stuff. All right? So if I were on the receiving end of that, I would feel like, oh, my God, like, is this relationship even meant to be? Does he want to be in a relationship? Always telling me, is all the things I've done wrong, and I don't hear any love at all. I have no. I hear no care, no nothing. All right. I want you to reflect on that for a minute. Okay? Yeah. I'm here to help. I'm here because you both showed up. I love that you're both engaged. Engaged in this conversation. And I'm here to help as much as you want me to. I think that there's so much behind what you've said today. If I zoom up, I see a woman who's craving connection, deeply. Connection with your family, who lives across the country, connection with your partner, who didn't say I love you for years and who won't talk about money and therefore won't talk about a future together.

Yeah. I mean, it's. I'm lonely.

And the spending.

It's probably like, the one thing that. Or, you know, one thing that kind of, I don't know, makes me feel good at the moment.

Okay. How you doing, Becky?

I'm okay.

Stuff is hard to talk about. The least of it is the numbers and sense, honestly. Right.

Yeah.

What is it? Money reveals so much about us. Right. What. What do you think it's revealing about you and Dustin and your relationship right now?

Just thought there's, like, a big disconnect where we're at and where we're going and how we kind of both want to get there.

Okay.

Where you're at today is what. Let me ask both of you. Today, where you're at is Becky separate?

Huh, Dustin? Yes. Two individuals, basically. Okay.

And where you're going as on your current State, if you keep going the same path. Where you're going is where Becky not together.

Yeah, seems that way.

Okay. Where you want to go is Becky.

Together, to the team together.

How do you want to get there?

I mean, I wanna. I guess I wanna, you know, have like a. A plan or what? I mean, how do we merge together a little bit and not be just two individuals living in the same house? I obviously, like, want to do a little bit more me stuff so that I can be a little bit more content as myself, so I can be a better contributor to the relationship.

I think we sit down and like, figure out how we come together. Like, what does that look like, money wise? Or you know what? We got to start somewhere. So we just start and have a plan and move together in that plan.

Well, you guys have me with you right now, so is there a better time than right now?

Let's do it.

I like you to start by spending at least 30 seconds talking to the other person saying something that has nothing to do with money. Who wants to go first?

I can go. I do love you. I know. It took me a while. I 100% believe in you. I've believed in you since I've met you. I admire a lot of things. I don't want to get too emotional. I admire so much about you. In, In a way, like, I look up to you. I wish I could be more like you. In many ways, I think you're amazing. I think you live way too much inside of your head, to my detriment sometimes maybe. And I try to navigate the best we can and, you know, kind of play my position in that. And I, I truly want to be a team. I. I've told you, like, we, we. We can do it. Not overnight, but we can. I can get you everything you've ever dreamed of and most of it that you haven't. What's that? 30 seconds?

That's the best thing you've said since we talked. Dustin. Thank you for being so honest. That was amazing, Becky.

I mean, it's. It's really nice to hear. You know, I. It's just not funny. But it's, I guess, kind of sad because everything you just said, like, I feel the same. Like, I admire you so much and, you know, I try to tell you that all the time about you. Like, you did something that most people can't do and something that I don't feel strong enough to do. So it's like I admire you and look up to you so much and everything you've done and accomplished. And I just want to be part of, like, taking it to the next level. And I think that we can build something really beautiful. And what I want is you. I want you to open up and I want you to feel safe, like, being vulnerable and emotional with me and not have to hide behind kind of the silliness and the jokes and like, that's what I want from you. I. I want a partner. And, you know, that's. That's really all I'm craving. And I. You know, I. I love you. I adore you.

I'm.

I'm here, and I want to be here because I. I think we could have a really special life.

I believe all that. And I. I agree. I mean, we can.

You two are at your best when you are being honest, when you are sharing what you love about your partner, when you're also admitting that there are things you don't know how to do or things you want to change. You can do all of those things, but you can't do any real changes until you are connected to your partner. Jumping into numbers. Do you now see how trivial it is? Do you see how pointless it is if you're not connected to your partner now? The feeling you have about each other. Do you think that we can make a plan together? Yeah. Yeah. Because there's a reason. There's a love, and it's out here. You don't need to keep the love secret. If you love your partner, tell them. If you love things about them, tell them. And now that it's out there, now we can make a plan.

I want us to find a way weekly to have a real conversation about. I would really like us to sit down weekly and have a conversation about, like, what the next week looks like and what. What our plans are and what we want and, you know, like, some reflection time every week. That's like, serious. That's not joking. That's not goofing around. That's like, hey, this is how my week went. This is what was hard for me. This. This is what I want to do next week. Like, I don't know. Like, I. I guess I want to trust myself because then I feel like Dustin will in turn trust me.

You want to trust yourself. I love that. How are you going to do that?

By sticking to the plan that we put together.

Dustin, take the ball. She's bouncing you the ball now. Go ahead, catch it. And how do you want to respond to that?

However that looks. I mean, we go out to eat a few times a week, so maybe one of the times. That's what we are doing. I mean, that's our agenda. Kind of like we know we're coming together once a week and we're having that conversation. I love that Wednesday is every Wednesday.

Okay, done. Wednesday at seven or whatever. Sunday at four is Wednesday at seven. The real number.

You.

You pick it right now. I want it to be real.

It's Sunday night before the week starts.

Ask her how does she feel about that?

How you feel about that?

I think our weekends get in the way too much. I think we know we eat out once a week, and we know that's gonna happen. So, like, I like, we'll just. Let's just make Wednesdays our night out. It's the middle of the week. We'll just know that's the night we're going to dinner. Let's just make that the day.

Love that.

And okay. This was so cool. That was so great, you guys. So Dustin threw it back. He said Sunday, which is actually a really common answer for couples. And then I love that Becky was like, hey, I actually don't think that works for us, but why don't we try Wednesday at 7? That was awesome. Teamwork. And then I love that Dustin was like, yes. And he leaned forward and wrote it down. Right, Dustin?

Yeah.

Awesome. Round of applause. That was teamwork. That was fantastic. Take the win. That was awesome, you guys. It sounds so trivial, but that's how we build a partnership together, one decision at a time. I'm hopeful for Becky and Dustin, but I also recognize how difficult their journey will be. The fact that in our conversation, they admitted they have never really said anything positive to each other, that's a tough sign. The fact that they keep their money separate and have difficulty communicating about it, that's tough. And the fact that they have expectations of each other, but they are not being forthright about them, that's also difficult. But with all that said, I did see glimmers of hope, where with a little bit of help, they were able to communicate and say something nice to each other. And you could almost see their partner melt. It's always in there. The question is, do they have the skills and the desire to be able to connect regularly when it comes to money and their relationship, and that is what I hope for them. So, Becky and Dustin, thank you for coming on here and sharing. Now I'd like to turn it over to their follow ups, which they sent me shortly after our conversation.

We greatly appreciate all the time you spent with us and everything you taught us moving forward, doing A whole dinner date once a week, kind of going over everything financial wise and, you know, in efforts to build a connection and more trust that way. One of the biggest key things I learned was, you know, how to separate the business from my personal income. So I've kind of know what I'm working towards, you know, personally so I can enjoy my personal money and that the business is going to be fine. You know, that's kind of a big weight lifted off my shoulders. One of the things I was really surprised by was that we don't really effectively communicate, so we therefore don't really get to a solution. So, you know, trying to put measures in so we gradually get to our solution and we don't just spin our wheels, you know, constantly not really getting to anything. Really appreciate everything you did for us and taking your time with us and we'll forever be indebted to you for that.

It was a really great experience. It was, it was definitely very difficult, way more difficult than I anticipated. I was just really surprised at how much emotion and kind of, you know, just emotional things were tied into this issue that we've been having that felt like it was over the numbers. And even though I watched the show and listened to the podcast and I just. You just don't think it's the same when it's you until you're in it and you're getting asked hard questions that, you know, I personally have probably been avoiding answering for 20 years. Um, and I just didn't really realize how much my financial behaviors were really were driven by this like, kind of, I guess almost like a little bit of hole in myself that I've had for a long time, that I've felt for a long time, but just didn't realize it was manifesting itself that way. So that was definitely really eye opening and again, difficult, but, but, but in a good way. What I learned is that it really wasn't as scary as I was making it. When I sat down and redid the CSP and just looked at the numbers and just, it felt so much better. I just avoided it for so long and that made it so much worse. And you know, going forward, I'm going to be able to have the one card paid off by the end of this week. Going to have, be able to have the other one done by March at the latest. So, so that's just really exciting. And I think when we looked at that together earlier today, it was just a big relief off of both of us and a really good step in the right direction. For us in our relationship.

Well, that's as good of a follow up as I could have possibly hoped for. Becky and Dustin, thank you for coming on the show. I want to encourage you to get help so that you can connect, communicate effectively and talk about about money and your rich life. I think this conversation was great and I also think it was just the beginning of your journey together. Thanks again. Thanks for listening to I WILL TEACH you to be Rich. I'm Ramit Sethi. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't read I will teach you to be rich my book. Pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I will teach you to be rich system into your personal finances.