22. “I’m quitting my job, but I’m worried my husband doesn't support me”

If you've recently discovered this podcast and you've wondered, how can I get Ramit to answer my specific money question, There are two ways to do it. Number one, you can apply to be on this podcast, although we are already full for the rest of the year. Number two, you can join my Money Coaching membership in this program. We do a ton of cool stuff I want to make sure you know about it. We do a monthly live call with me where I cover some of my favorite money topics that I can't go into publicly in as much detail as and I break down our members conscious spending plans. Plus I answer your questions live. We also have tons of virtual events coming up that cover every aspect of living a rich life. For example, our new event Money for Aging Parents is coming up at the end of October that is included for all Money Coaching members. You get access to our library of all past calls like how to find an extra thousand dollars a Month and how to do a Rich Life annual review. Plus we have a Money Coaching community group where you can see inspiration how other people are spending their money and get your own questions answered if you want to get help. If you want to meet amazing other people in Money Coaching and you want to build your rich life faster and bigger, you should check out Money Coaching today. Go to iwt.commoneycoaching to join right now. That's iwt.com moneycoaching.

I very much feel that whenever I want to spend money on myself, it is an asking for permission and I'd rather not ask permission. So I just go without. I have a question. Do I get any budget for things I need or do I need to wait until I'm earning my own money to be able to have my own budget for things I want to spend on myself?

That's a question. That's my answer there, right?

I know there's things underneath the surface for both of us that we're not saying to each other. We maybe just harbor a bit of resentment towards each other.

Hi, I'm Ramit Sethin.

Welcome to the I Will Teach youh Be Rich podcast. Today I'm talking to Alex and brandon. Alex is 33 years old and she's jumped from job to job for years. In fact, she just recently quit her latest job. Brandon is 34 years old and he brings in $135,000 a year. Now, the reason that they originally reached out was Alex felt resentful over having to ask for money. Almost like an allowance little bit of context. Brandon brings in $135,000 a year. They have about $85,000 in savings and investments. They also have $78,000 in debt. But this relationship is unlike many others that you've heard of because Brandon and Alex were previously married. Then they got divorced, and then they got remarried. In today's episode, you're going to hear lots of fascinating variables. You're going to hear so much indecision. They talk around issues. You're going to hear them admitting that they've basically done what others told them to do for most of their lives. But now Brandon and Alex are realizing that they don't really know what they want for themselves at times. Today's episode is going to be very frustrating to listen to, but the layers here are quite fascinating.

Listen in.

When we're making financial decisions, I wish I would stand up for myself and say, like, yeah, but hold on, I want to do these things first. Or can I just, you know, put some. Put some input in there and not that again. Brandon never says I can't. I just. I just don't offer it up.

So can we talk about those things right now?

Sure.

What are the things that you want to do?

So it more so has to do with health and wellness, like, for myself, of, like, wanting to go get acupuncture or see a chiropractor or buy supplements for myself on a monthly basis or go take recurring exercise classes. So things that have a recurring monthly price tag on them are the things that I find challenging to advocate for myself because it means incorporating it into a budget and making it like a known every month thing that I have to say. I'm taking this for myself.

I noticed that you're talking about the things that you want to ask Brandon. Do you think you could just ask him right now?

I could, I could, and I kind of have. I've hinted at it, and he's always very generous and welcoming, but we never have an actual conversation. And I think because in my mind, it needs to be a numbers conversation. It can't just be me asking and he says yes or no, but it's like we actually then have to sit down and really, really think it through and figure out where that money comes from and how we allocate it. And then that's the conversation I don't.

Want to have because.

What?

Not that I don't want to have it. I do want to have it, but I feel guilt because I know one of the answers is that I could earn more money and pay for it myself. And then that's the answer. So I just shouldn't ask because it's on me.

Sounds like you have a lot of stories that you're telling yourself.

Yep, that sounds right.

What do you think those stories are?

I think one is that while I keep saying I don't make money, I can't make money, it's hard for me to make money. So that's a story that's recurring. I very much feel that whenever I want to spend money on myself, it is an asking for permission. And again, not that Brandon set that up. I've kind of work that into my own mind. But yeah, it feels like I need to ask permission and I'd rather not ask permission, so I just go without.

Alex has been talking around a specific example for minutes and minutes now. It's getting a little frustrating. Candidly, when I asked, do you think you could just ask him right now? Did you notice what she did? She just started spinning. She started giving me a 50,000 foot view of what's going on instead of just asking him the question. You'll notice this a lot. A lot of people resist giving specific examples because they're afraid if they get specific about what they want, they're going to be seen as demanding or selfish or even a bitch. But I think details and specifics are where our rich life is created. That's why I push so hard for them. So I'm going to use a principle now that we call from the clouds to the street, which means I want to take her from the clouds, all this theoretical meta level, hypothetical stuff, down to the streets where we reside. Real examples is what I'm looking for.

Top of mind is I want to be able to purchase supplements for myself every month. And I would say that totals like 150 to 200 if you're getting like high quality health supplements for yourself to start with, I've just been buying them little by little as I have money in my account. And then the goal, I guess or idea was that I would be able to talk to Brandon and be like, how can we fit this into our budget, like in a monthly thing? But other.

Ask him, he's right here.

Okay, but I already. Okay. Brandon, would it be okay for me to spend between 150 and $200 a month on supplements for myself?

I think like we've, well, like we've always talked about, if it's something that you really want to do, I'm all for it. I say let's go for something that's 150, 200 bucks a month. I Do think that that warrants looking at it and like, talking through, like, is that a monthly cost that we can take on and that we're comfortable with and are we going to get the benefits from that? You know, that warrant, that kind of a cost? 200 bucks a month is pretty heavy for a supplement routine. But at the same time, I'm never a yes or no. I don't make the decision. I want you to run with it and do what you feel you have to do. And I think that as we go, we just need to check in with each other. But that's again, something where, like, I don't really want the job to say I hold the money. Yes or no? You can do it. I'd rather like we're partners. If you feel it's right, let's do it. And then when we hit a problem, maybe we'll take each other aside and talk about it, you know?

Hmm.

Okay. Brandon just said a lot of words, but what did he actually say? Think back to what Alex asked him. She wanted to know if she could spend money on her health supplements. His response in plain English was, well, sure, but maybe not. But I guess it's not my place to say, really, and I'll leave it up to you.

What is that answer?

This is a textbook example of being non committal and indecisive. Remember earlier I pointed out some of the reasons that people resist asking for specifics. Well, people also resist being decisive.

Why?

They're afraid or they're inexperienced with making decisions. Sometimes they feel the need to do more and more research. And most of the time they don't understand the costs of kicking the can down the road. I want you to listen for this indecisiveness as the episode goes on. It is everywhere.

Alex, how clear do you think Brandon was in his answer to your question?

Pretty clear.

Really? What was his answer in one sentence?

Oh, it was, yes, let's spend, but also have a discussion beforehand to make sure.

Really? So can you go out and go get those supplements right now?

No, we need to have a discussion first.

Well, how many discussions are we going to have? We're trying to have 10 levels of discussions here. So again, I want to ask you the question. How clear was his answer to you?

Okay, maybe not as clear as I had hoped.

No, it wasn't clear at all. He didn't say anything in response to your question. You asked him, can I get these supplements? Here's how much they cost. And his answer, Although it felt neutral or slightly negative, it didn't actually answer your question, I suspect that this is something that happens a lot. You two talk around it. Because we spent the first 20 minutes of this call talking about having a conversation. Do you guys want to have the conversation right now?

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay, so who wants to take the lead?

Oh.

What'S that? What's that sigh?

It's. It's like, I don't even know. Like, I know there's things underneath the surface for both of us that we're not saying to each other because we care about each other and probably don't want to bring up any tension. And so we do the dance on eggshells, walk across each other, but then we don't get anywhere with it. We maybe just harbor a bit of resentment towards each other, and that's not good either.

I noticed that when the two of you speak, it's almost like magnets repelling. Not in a bad way. I'm not saying that there's not love and respect between the two of you. There clearly is. But I noticed that you both dance around each other. Yes. I never want to be the kind of person who says this, but we should talk about it. And of course, I'm not the decision maker. She's the decision maker.

But.

And on and on. And the truck. And on and on and on. So ultimately, you circle and dance, but there's no fulfillment. There's no answer. Sometimes the worst thing in life is to not have clarity. I don't care if I have to do something really hard.

Just tell me when.

Tell me how long it's going to last. I can do it, but I just need to know which direction to go. Yes or no? Brandon, do you see how you are playing into this as well?

I do. Yes.

Tell me.

It comes from a place of not really actually knowing what to say, you know, because that question that you asked Alex just a minute ago, how would that feel if Brandon said no or yes? How would I feel in that situation is I wouldn't feel good either way because I don't want to be the all powerful keeper of the money and say yes to this, no to that. That's not a partnership, and that's not what we've always talked about creating.

So, Brandon, I'm hearing that you don't want to accept the mantle of being the holder of the purse drinks. You don't want to be the person who's saying yes and no to money. Okay. How do you make decisions?

I just buy it.

Hey, I appreciate the honesty.

No.

Okay.

How.

How do the two of you make decisions, Brandon?

I think that Alex and I make decisions on the large things.

How?

Describe it to me as if you're describing McDonald's standard operating procedure. You come in here, you put the fries for 45 seconds. What's your SOP for making financial decisions.

Step one is Alex puts together a pros and cons list, you know, on a big decision.

Okay, so what do you write it on paper?

Yeah, I'm all about the notebook and pen.

All right, and then what happens, Brandon?

And then we. We talk through it, and I think that we have a pretty good dialogue. I. I'll totally honest with you. I've taken a couple projects to Alex where I'm like, hey, there's this old motorcycle, this old car on Craigslist. I think that we should jump on it. It's a great deal. And we talk through it, and then at the end of it, you know, sometimes it nets with, I bought an old motorcycle. But more often than not, it nets with a look. That's not something we need to take on right now. We have other priorities that we need to take care of.

Okay, great. You have more of a refined decision making process than most, so I want to applaud you both for that. So if you have this SOP or this way of making decisions, can we connect that to this question about supplements?

We could. I think it's because it's not a joint thing. If it's something just for me, that's where the hang up is, is because he's not benefiting in any way from this. This is just me getting something I want.

So, Alex, what is the SOP for making decisions when it's just for you or just for him?

If it's just for me, then it's do I have enough money to cover it or not? And if I don't, then it's a don't buy it until you have enough money.

Okay. Very straightforward.

I can't tell you how many times I've told her, go buy the jeans, go buy the shoes. Just do it. Just buy that stuff. Because I think that she feels bad about spending any kind of money on herself. And I think some of it is some family inherited stuff of just preconceived ideas. But I think a larger part of it is the contribution thing, because it's been an issue for Alex and I in the past. You know, we've had conversations, we've had fights about this, and. And I think that her mind constantly goes back, and I don't think that we fully resolved that when I look at our finances, I consider them to be a team effort and it goes into the pool and that's our money. You know, like if I'm not just like, right on that, that sounds great. Let's do it. Buy those supplements. Then she feels automatically I'm feeling resentful. I don't want her to spend this money because a part of me feels like she's not contributing.

Uh oh, did you hear the C word? It's the word that comes up almost a hundred percent of the time when one partner earns way less than the other. That word contribute. Lower earners are obsessed with the word contribution. How much do I contribute? I want to contribute. There are other ways of contributing besides making money. Who's contributing now? The dynamics of a higher earner and a lower earner are very tricky. I've covered this in previous episodes of this podcast. But one general rule is the higher earner must be aware of these dynamics and and take on the responsibility of making the lower earner feel comfortable. For Alex and Brandon, one of the biggest driving forces behind their problem is simple. Alex doesn't earn enough money to live the lifestyle. She wants to live that lifestyle. She needs Brandon to help fund it. Well, my question then is why did she just quit her job?

Real question for you. Do you know how often you're supposed to see your primary care physician? How about the dentist? How about a dermatologist? A lot of us just wait to get a text from the dental hygienist to know it's time to make an appointment. But your health is important and we talk about going from defense to offense with your money. What about with your health? Why not make your life easier and book this year's appointments today with zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. They have over 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health, dental, primary care and more. Just filter for the doctors based on your insurance, your location, even ratings and find a doctor who's a good fit for your needs. Plus Zoc Talk appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours instantly. Click through your options, book the appointment and you are good to go. If I needed to find a new doctor today, this is what I would use. Stop putting off these doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com ramit to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z O C d O C.com Ramit Zocdoc.com Ramit what comes to mind when I share these specific moments? Renewing your passport. Scheduling a dentist appointment. Replacing that light bulb that's been out for six months and you're not sure what's the right bulb. We all procrastinate on weird stuff and taxes are usually right at the top of that list. We wait until the last second, then we get overwhelmed. We got to pull all this paperwork and we're panicked because the deadline is approaching. That's why I recommend guilt. Now that tax season's over, this is actually the best time to get ahead. If you run a business or you filed for a tax extension, one small move right now could save you thousands later. G is not just another CPA firm. They helped one of my colleagues rethink his entire tax setup. Now he's saving more than he spends on tax prep. With G, you get a proactive year round strategy, not just a one time filing. Credits, deductions, business structure. It's handled. And their tech platform makes it easy to stay organized. You'll also get access to Gilt's full tax library with guides on retirement plans, QBI and more. So if you've got a business or you filed for an extension, this is the window to take control of your tax plan. Head to joingelt.com ramit to book a consultation. And as a member of my community, you get to skip the waitlist. Again, that's joingelt.com ramit join G-E-L T.com ramit taxes don't have to be a task with Gelt.

They can be a tool to build wealth.

I want to know if you've had discussions about Alex quitting her job.

So this most recent one was not as much of a discussion as it was like, I just need to get out of this. Previous times this has happened, we did have conversations. I'm now realizing that, like Brandon's used to this perhaps.

How many times has it happened?

I've had like 10, 15 different jobs. Like I.

What?

I've done so many different things. It's kind of crazy.

Why? Why 10 to 15?

I mean, maybe that's thinking back too far. That's not since graduating college. It's like from high school through now, I've probably had like 15 different jobs. Yeah, life has just been w. I think for a long time I was trying to fulfill other people's ideas of who I was. And then I've also tried to like do things that I think this is who I am. And then I fluctuate and try different things and don't just have one set trajectory. And then when I thought I had a set trajectory, that's when we got a divorce. And then that threw that out the window as well. And so everything just got tossed up in the air again.

What age were you when you both got divorced?

So we got divorced in 2015. I was 20. We were like 27.

And then how many years until you got back together?

It was like two years until we officially got back together, but there was back and forth in that two years as well.

And what was the reason that you got divorced? And is that reason still present in the relationship?

I think we got married very young. We got married when I was 21 and she was 20. And, you know, we were playing out this fairy tale story. And I think at a certain point we just kind of hit a wall where at least, and I'm speaking for myself here, of like, I was just like, what the hell am I doing? I'm grinding, making zero money. And, you know, we got married so young. We aren't fully formed people. We need to be going off and doing our own thing. I think separating and then being apart for a while, we did kind of realize that we are very good together. But I think that a lot of the issues do kind of exist. Of like, we both had that thing of like, we got out of college, we felt like we were just like fulfilling these steps that were already laid out for us. Like, it was just everybody assumed, oh, you guys are going to get out of college. Brandon, you're going to get a job, you guys are going to have kids. And I think that we both kind of got out of that. And we're like, hey, that's not us. That's not our decision.

Okay, you two are not sure about $200 a month supplements.

What do you notice so far? One pattern I notice is that they describe their lives almost as if they're watching themselves float down the river of life, not as an active participant, but just as an observer. It's like they're Patrick Swayze coming out of their own bodies in Ghost. And I see this a lot, the idea that life happens to you instead of you being able to influence it. In my experience, this habit of being passive is extremely difficult to change.

Maybe part of the problem is we let life decide for us.

Tell me.

Yeah, we kind of wait and see what happens, and we have tentative goals or things we think we want in life, but we wait until there's a Sign or something happens that allows that to be possible and then we jump on it versus, yeah. Deciding for ourselves what we actually want and then going for it.

Tell me a time you let life decide for you.

I think that's how I roll pretty much. Even with all the jobs I've had, I throw a wide net at a bunch of different things and then I see what comes back and then I go with it. That seems to be. Yeah, quite a repeating pattern in my life. In general. It's people pleasing. I very much am concerned with how I'm viewed and what other people think about me, and that is what informed a lot of Brandon Mind's relationship. In the beginning. The whole reason we got married to begin with was actually because other people didn't like the idea of us living together. And parents and even friends chimed in saying, like, well, you shouldn't live together before you're married. And so we kind of did a double take at each other and like, oh, oh, my gosh. I get. Yeah, you're right. I guess we shouldn't, you know, live together before we're married. And so we got married.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

This is so.

I've heard stories about this happening because.

I had friends in high school, but I've never had the chance to meet an actual couple who did this. So when I understand everything up to the moment where you looked at each other and you go, I guess we should get married. So you're young. You're, like, in your late teens, early 20s. And was there a moment where you said, let's just not live together? Let's just, you know, we'll date each other, but we're not going to live together. Was there a moment where you had that conversation?

I don't think so. Bran, do you remember?

I don't think so. I think. I think we were fully bought in on this storybook story, and we were just, in a way, content. Just, like, playing it out. Playing out.

Where did it come from?

Parents.

Religious.

Religious, yes. We got married in the Catholic Church. Neither of us are Catholic anymore.

Right.

Was it unusual for you in your peer group to get married that young?

No. Weirdly, no.

Catholic.

Is that what it was?

Catholic and then also, like, Mormon friends. Those are the other group of people doing that around that.

I think parents were one thing. I think we were just very young and kind of swept up in this thing of, you know, we're high school sweethearts, we're going to get married anyways. My instinct was kind of like, oh, we've always been Told that we're the good kids. Like, we're the good kids. This is just what you do.

Wow.

It's almost like you're just following a path that has been created for you. And not surprisingly, a few years later, you both start to ask yourself, did we ever intend to go down this path? Were we ever intentional about it? Okay, okay, I'm understanding now. So you divorce you then get back together. Now, here's the question. Do you still have some of those same beliefs that caused you to go down other people's paths? You still have some of those same beliefs today?

I think I do. And I think that's part of the problem, is even though logically I can know and understand certain things and not want to repeat patterns, it's like there's a subconscious block that's there that I need to work to get rid of. And I think one of those stories is that the husband is the provider and the woman stays at home and has the kids. Because that's what my mom did. That's what Brandon's mom did. That's what our grandmas did. Like, that's. The women in our family was. That was the role. They weren't career oriented. They didn't have jobs. They stayed at home with kids.

These are great examples of invisible scripts. All of us were raised with beliefs that are so deeply held, they're invisible to us. Alex saw the women in her life staying home with kids, not having a career, and so she believed it. How many ways do you think she absorbed the message that working is not for women? Think about the specific times she might have picked up those messages. Maybe her mom once said, that's what men are for. Maybe her aunt once said, why would you work? Maybe her grandma had her own phrases. These are the types of messages that we invisibly absorb. For years and often decades, we're all guided by invisible scripts. And sometimes those invisible scripts are positive.

Like working hard gets you good results.

But other times, those invisible scripts do not serve you anymore. Now for Brandon, recall his lack of specifics, his inability to make a decision. I want to tackle that. You think we can make a change on that?

I know that some of us think better when we write our thoughts out. But for a lot of us, including me, I'm better when I can think out loud. If that's you, I recommend you check out Whisper Flow to save you tons of time to bring your ideas to the page. Whisper Flow turns your voice into clean final draft writing inside whatever app you're already using. Email Slack Docs, even text messages. And it works on Mac, Windows and iPhone. So instead of spending all of your time responding to messages, especially while sitting at a computer, you can hit a hotkey, speak and the text appears. It's accurate, it's fast, it's all formatted so you can get back to work. Here's what my friend said about it. Whisper is amazing because it learns the way you speak. So you can send this rambling note as a text message and it kills all the filler words and it perfectly formats it for you. They said it's much better than using the Apple voice to text feature. The spelling is way better. If you want to buy your time back and get back to what matters, check out Whisper Flow. Try it for free at whisperflow AI/ramit that's whisperflow AI/ramit w I s p r flow AI ramit or click the link in the description below. When I talk to new business owners, I hear a lot of the same motivations. I want to make extra money. I want more freedom. I want flexibility. But I will tell you something that I've never heard. I want to start a business so I can fill out a bunch of tax forms. That sounds like my hell. The good news is you don't need to be a tax expert to start your own business. Instead, you can use Gusto, this episode's sponsor. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one. It's remote, friendly and it's incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. They offer automatic payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, workers, comp 401k matches, you name it, they can help. Plus, it's quick and easy to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data and get up and running fast with no hidden fees and no surprises. Try gusto today@gusto.com ramit and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll@gusto.com ramIt once more gusto.com ramit.

If you were to say no to Alex no, you can't buy this. Would it make you the bad guy?

Yeah. Oh my gosh, there it is. I've never thought of it in that way before. He doesn't want to be the bad guy and tell me no. And he's operating with that story in the back of his mind and that's why he dances around. Or we don't quite answer it.

Brandon what would happen if you were to say no, play it out for me.

I think that if I was to say no on my side of things, I would feel hypocritical. I would feel misogynistic. In a way, I feel overbearing. And then on Alex's side, I feel like she would feel her belittled, lessened. Like that her voice isn't strong and as. As worthy as mine.

What do you get to become when you avoid making a decision?

A good guy.

So you're doing everything to fulfill the idea of being the good guy. I'm not the one who has to hold the checkbook. It's both of ours. I love you. I trust you. You make the decision, you're the good guy, because it's not up to you.

There's only one problem.

I think the problem is the input. If I'm providing, does that mean that I need to assume the responsibility? Or does it mean that I have to find in myself the ability to buy into us completely as a couple, as a team, to say whatever I produce in this world is a hundred percent mine and Alex's. We share.

Well, I don't know the answer to that. But you two do. You haven't had the courage to confront it. You earn the money. Brandon, that's not. There's nothing misogynistic about saying that you are the earner for this family. Fine. You've accepted that. Fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that you make all financial decisions for the family. That's a separate issue. Let's first acknowledge you are the earner for the family. Can we all agree on that?

Yes.

Okay, so you tell me, how do the two of you want to make small financial decisions? Let's start there.

For the. For the small decisions like the supplements.

Yes.

I. I want. I want Alex to come to me and say, I want to spend on this. And then we both look at our. Our bank accounts and determine whether or not that's the way forward.

Okay, well, she did that. She came to you and said, I want to spend $200 a month. So you have all your finances in front of you. Now I want to watch the two of you make this decision.

Okay. What I would say and what I've been hesitant to say or don't say to Brandon is that I feel this is a reasonable ask. Because if I'm to tally up the amount you spend per month on yourself or on the things you. Yeah, you buy just for you, this is minimal comparatively. So it's not that much. And I should be able to Just get it. But I also want you to know that you spend this much more than I do.

Yeah.

I think I could find, you know, the little things that ebay purchases, you know, the things here and there that all add up that I'm not spending on myself.

Yeah.

And. And that's fair. But I think it all comes back to. I think both of us need a framework to work within, because you've got the. You've got the supplements. And believe me when I say this, I want you to do everything because, again, like, I want you to feel empowered to do these things, and I want these things for you.

Absolutely.

But you do have supplements, dance classes. You know, we. We spend a good amount on some kind of upscale groceries to buy certain things. So there's just, like, when you start to kind of stack things up and I do the same thing, it becomes a lot. And then all of a sudden, we're in the zone where it's scary because we don't save or like we're spending more than our means, you know, and we're not chipping away at our bad debt that we need to get out of here. So a $200 a month thing, I feel like, is just, you know, that's definitely something we need to consider. It really has to be beneficial to. To us as a family. So I want that. I just. I want to step back and take a look at that and say, is there a good reason to be spending this money on a monthly basis? Alex, I want you to. To contribute to our bottom line so that when we have these discussions, we can come to it as equal partners.

I understand it's important to you that I am contributing to this. It may not be at an equal amount, but something. And I'm aware that's important to you, and I want to be able to provide that. I'm sorry I haven't been able to do it to the level you've worked. The other thing I want is, I do want us to look at all the finances. Like, my first step in this dance is I want us to read Ramit's book together and go through it and make sure we're on the same page. Even though I don't have the contributing finances yet, I want us to start off on the trajectory of knowing where our finances are at. And then when I have the income to provide, we're just that much more prepared and ready to allocate everything accordingly.

There's this myth that if you rent, it means you haven't made it. I don't really believe that I rent and I want you to know that you are not a failure if you choose to rent. In fact, I want more freedom right now than buying a 30 year mortgage. But if I'm spending thousands of dollars a month, I want to get some of the perks that homeowners get. And that is where BILT comes in. BILT is a loyalty program for renters. You pay your rent through BILT and you can earn points for it. Think about it. You're earning points for your biggest expense every single month and you can redeem those built points towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides or even future rent payments. BILT has evolved into a complete rewards ecosystem for where you get rewarded for the first time as a renter. And it's easy. Almost any payment method is compatible so you can start earning right now. I wish I had had this when I first started living in New York. Plus, BILT recently announced that homeowners will be able to get rewarded the same way on their mortgage in 2026. So stay tuned. Join the loyalty program for renters@join built.com SL Ramit that's J-O-I-N B-I-L-T.com Ramit and make sure you use our URL so they know that we sent you. Okay, let's try to guess what you got your mom for Mother's Day. Was it a gift card to Starbucks? Was it random chocolates from Ses Candy.

Or a pair of slippers?

And you said here mom, keep your feet warm. They cost $3 at Target. Guys, don't you think generosity is a core value to have, especially for Mother's Day? Well, if it is for you. If giving great gifts is a part of your rich life, especially to your mom, I recommend checking out Aura Frames. This episode's sponsor. Aura is a wifi connected digital picture frame that beautifully showcases your photos. You can add unlimited photos and videos straight from your smartphone using their app. Aura Frame was named the best digital photo frame by Wirecutter and featured in 495 gift guides. And because they only take two minutes to set up, it's easy. You can even send her photos straight from your phone no matter where you are in the world. My coworker gave an Aura Frame to her in laws and this is what she had to say. They absolutely love it. Now that they spend the winter in Florida, they don't get to see their grandkids as often. So we fill it with photos of the kids so they can see what they've been up to as the year goes on. The photos look like framed photos. Highly recommended. Aura has a great deal for Mother's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off plus free shipping on their best selling Carver Mat frame. That's a U R A frame frames.com promo code ramit Support the show by mentioning promo code RAMIT at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Brandon, what did you just hear Alex say to you in one sentence?

She wants me to be on board with her vision of managing the finances.

I feel like I'm feeling resentment like you don't like that it's my vision that maybe you have a different idea that you'd want me to hear.

Yes, I want us to be aligned on a compromise of yours and mine. Mine I don't want to manage to a fine point the granular finances. I work a lot in a stressful environment and I don't want to chase down every dollar. I wish that I was super financially savvy and like with the stock market and I could do all that. But my brain doesn't really work that way. And I want you to take ownership of the finances for us to include paying bills and all that. But like Ramit said, I, I have serious concerns about some of the freedoms within that income that I'm bringing in that I, I'm concerned with that I will lose the freedom to exercise some of the things that feed my, my soul after working a long day. Okay, pause, pause.

This is great, Alex. He just said a lot. What do you take away from that?

It makes me so excited you saying that you would want me to, like, pay bills and be on top of this. I'm like, yes, and guess what? You haven't read Ramit's book yet, but I know his ways. And all you're talking about is Ramit's rich life, the things that are important to you and you want to spend money on. I'm not going to nitpick those things. If those are the things that truly bring you joy in life, I'm going to put that in the rich life category. And we're going to figure out all the other expenses and budgeting and other areas that are less meaningful to us. So it will all be okay. And you don't need to worry about being limited or cut off in the areas that are important to you. And that can be conversations we can have.

I feel entitled to that release because I work hard and I think it is just like, I work, I work hard and it's stressful and there's a lot going on. And so sometimes I do feel entitled. Like, if I want to go on ebay, I've earned that and I'm going to do it. I'm not going to ask anybody. I'm not going to explain myself to anybody.

I get that.

Validate him, Alex.

Yeah, Bran. You do work really hard. You work incredibly hard. You are a great leader in your work and I'm so impressed by all the things you do and you do deserve that. Time to. Yeah. Kick back, relax. Work hard again in your own way in your garage and your projects.

Yes.

This is great.

One thing that I'm afraid of is we go through Ramit's strategy and then we find that, like, look, there's 100 bucks at the end of the month. That is like free use. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, I can't do anything with that. You know, like, my projects need more than that or whatever.

Ask a question, Brandon.

So how. How do we go through this process but retain my ability to exercise my hobbies?

That's a great question. I'm not exactly sure, but I think it might be making adjustments in other categories.

If you had $100 a month. Brandon, is that too little?

That's too little.

If you had $500, is that too little?

$500 could do it.

That's it. All we had to do is ask two numbers and we got the answer.

Maybe. Let's bump that up.

Pick a number.

It's not my budget, it's yours.

I'm thinking about larger projects and then I think about, okay, well, if I need to do something heavy, I gotta save over the course of like, three or four months, you know? And how do I do that?

Just give me some specifics here. I'm dying for some specifics. You guys are going to walk out of this call feeling really good, and.

Tomorrow you're going to wake up and.

Realize you have no plan whatsoever. And it's going to be like another conversation you had where nothing gets solved. I am dying for specifics here. Please.

$500 a month would be a workable budget.

Lovely. 6,000 bucks a year.

Buy all the car parts you want. And motorcycles.

I love it.

I'm so happy.

Of course, you can adjust that number if you want. Perfect.

This isn't set in stone.

I have a question. Do I get any budget for things I need or do I need to wait until I'm earning my Own money to be able to have my own budget for things I want to spend on myself.

That's a question. That's my. My answer there, right?

It's not mine. Unless you want me to allocate your money for you, I'll be happy to do it. You might not like what I allocate it to, though.

For me, I have to be the good guy, so you're going to have to take this.

No, no, no, Go ahead.

The answer is just as I have a budget for my stuff, I want you to have the same budget for your stuff.

Is it an even budget, or is it a minimized budget because I'm not contributing as much? Like a. Do I not get as much? I know you're saying equal, but I'm giving you the opportunity to speak your truth if you really think that it shouldn't be even, and I will respect that.

I don't know. I don't. Not that I even. Because of input. Again, I'm doing my absolute best to look at all this as equal partnership. Ramit came to me and asked, what was my budget? What's your budget for your stuff that would provide you with the stuff that makes you happy and fulfilled and feel like you've got what you need for the month.

It might be around that $500 mark. Also, if I'm. If I'm, like, living my rich life and really like the things I want to do.

Okay.

I don't know if we have a thousand a month to allocate to this. I kind of feel like we don't. So we're thinking kind of lofty here, but once we go through everything, we'll know for sure, and then we can talk then to find what the real number is.

Okay, I'm loving this so far. I'm loving this. I love a couple of things about this one. I love that you're both asking each other these very crisp, candid questions. Hey, how much do you need to feel good about your hobbies? Well, okay, I gave you my number. Now I got to ask you the same question. How much do you need? I love that. That's a pretty pointed, direct question. I love that you both have the courage to do it. The other thing I love. Alex, you said, I don't know if we actually have this much money, but let's at least take these guesses and.

Go figure out the plan.

That is a beautiful way of thinking about it. You know, the most important thing you're doing right now is coming up with some basic frameworks for Your finances. Now you need to go test it against reality and see how much you have every month. But guess what? Maybe you don't have enough to do it. Okay, you both cut your number down by 25%. Great. Oh, you know what? That's not going to let me have enough for my motorcycles and I really want it. I'd like to discuss with you that I want to have a little bit more. And Alex, I think for the time being, I'm going to need you to take a little bit less. Of course, when you earn more, we can discuss xyz whatever is your framework.

I love that you're both getting into.

Making decisions right now. Brandon, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling good.

I think what you're going to realize when you finally check all these boxes is how much of reality you've been ignoring. The numbers are. The numbers. They're already there. They're happening one way or another. It's just that you haven't been intentional behind them. I think you're going to realize how indirect you two have been with each other and how just setting simple rules, like, I want you to manage the conscious spending plan and I want you to pre read before we come Sunday at 11am it's clarified so many things. Finally, I think that you are going to both start to realize, yeah, okay. We have a long road ahead of us in terms of paying off our debt. Maybe I can't spend as much as I wanted to on the things I want in the short term, but we actually have control of our money. We can decide if we want to pay off our debt faster. We can decide if we want to live somewhere else. We can decide if financially we want to have kids. We now have control of our money. We can see more than 450 yards ahead. That is an incredibly powerful feeling.

Incredible.

Most people, believe it or not, most people would rather not know the truth, even though it feels painful. You know, every day they're fighting and da, da, da. But they don't want to know the truth because they have to look at the whole picture. And it's scary. You two are showing a lot of courage. You are courageous enough to confront reality, to look at the numbers, to really build some bridges in your own relationship. And the answers are going to be scary. Yeah, you have a lot of debt. Yeah. You might not be able to spend as much as you want, but you are in charge now. The world isn't passing you by. You are in charge.

That's right where we want to be. Foreign.

Thanks for listening. To I Will Teach youh To Be Rich. I'm Ramit Sethi. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. To find our entire back catalog of podcast episodes, go to iwt.com podcast I'm giving away a signed copy of my book. Send me a screenshot. Show me that you're following my podcast on Apple or Spotify, and I'll pick one listener to send a free signed copy of my book right out to you. Here's what you'll find next week on the I Will Teach youh to Be Rich podcast.

Getting into the house, there was more things that needed to be fixed that, like, more, more than met the eye originally. And it was overwhelming to me. I felt that same horrible feeling like, oh, gosh, the spigot has been open. The money spigot, and it's never going to stop. Like, the faucet's never going to stop.

I said, no amount of money that we make will make you feel secure. Because if we're making a million dollars a year, you're going to think, oh, we need 2 million or a million and a half, and it's just going to keep escalating.