OG DoneDiddirty | My Environment Was Worst Than Prison

The people that you see me close to are like family. When I speak about Terrell's Diane, his mama was in the emergency room when, uh, my mama gave birth to me. His mama and my mama been friends since they was young, bro. Yeah, she know my daddy. Shit like that. And so them niggas is family.

Yeah. Life is too short, bitch.

Now turn that corner. Real player, real player, dream chaser.

Life is hard. Anybody tell you life ain't hard, they lying to you. Life is hard. But you know what? Keep walking. Yes, you gonna turn the corner. Today we got somebody who I love dearly, like a little brother, brother from another mother. Um, been through some shit and been through a whole lot of stuff and had some ups and downs, some forwards and backwards, and went forward, had to bounce back. But he is another person that I say is the ultimate person who has turned the corner. Y'all welcome my little cousin Anthony, Motherfucker the Coaster. What's up, boy?

What up though? What up, Kenfolk?

What's up?

What's good with you? What's good with you?

You good, Red?

Yeah, man, I'm good.

So let me just ask this right here. For the, for the sake of this interview, I want to make sure I respect you. I want to make sure I respect um, what you go by. I know you by Anthony, but other people might know you by Do Dirty. By Do Dirty.

Yeah.

Okay, so before we get started, I'm gonna need you to speak up a little bit. But why or how did you even get that name Do Dirty?

That name came about when, uh, Everybody know, for the people who know me, they know I'm from the East Terrace or whatever.

Okay, so this is a global podcast. Most people don't know what the East Terrace is.

Yeah, the East Terrace is a neighborhood on the east side of San Antonio, Texas, that I was actually living out there when I was born, and I've been raised out there periodically. We done moved out before, lived in different neighborhoods or whatnot, but for the most part of most of my life, our residence was East Terrace.

Okay. And I didn't even know you was— I mean, born in East Terrace?

Yeah, Hornet Street.

Okay.

Yeah, at the bottom of the hill.

Okay.

The old East Terrace.

Okay.

And that was one of the reasons why we moved out, because they was— oh, go ahead.

No, you keep moving.

Oh, because they—

somebody watching, you're gonna be like, why, why he keep doing it right there? Oh, you're good.

That was one of the reasons why we moved out, because they was rebuild, uh, building up or remodeling or refurbishing some apartments. So during that time, we had a stint where we lived in the Reedsby. So I had to— okay, fortunate living out in the Reedsby.

And the Reedsby is what?

The Reedsby is some other, uh, apartments on the east side of San Antonio, off Reesby, off Israel.

Okay, yeah, okay.

Uh, most people know me from the East Terrace, and when you think about the East Terrace, most of the people gonna say East Terrace Gangsters, which is a gang that formulated out there in the East Terrace. But doing the, uh, formulation of this, because I was there with, uh pretty much everything was taking place. And, uh, one of my big homies, somebody I call a big homie— you know, a lot of people nowadays, they don't believe in big homies, but I still got some homeboys that I respect and I love that were older than me, and I considered them forerunners or whatnot. And so I still respect them as such, you know what I'm saying, especially if they ain't never done no fuck shit. But one of the big homies, you know what I'm saying, he started calling me that. And, uh, I think it was a, uh, he was talking about something, but I forgot what exactly, why he started calling me that or whatnot. But he started calling me that and it just took off.

So you've been having a name for how long then? Because I know, you know, people know you by that name.

Yeah.

So how long you've been having that, that name, Do Dirty?

Since I was about 13.

About 13. Okay, because I ain't never had a nickname. Like, you know, I always wanted a nickname. I gave myself a name. Now, when I started fighting a lot, that's where Can't Get Right came from, because like, this nigga can't get right. Everybody think it came from the movie. But my thing is, you know, I think you got a cool nickname, you know what I'm saying? You know, but yeah, you know, it's funny because you said your homeboy gave you that name. So Ray, being raised in the East Terrace there's people that's not from San Antonio, East Side San Antonio, uh, you can either say Martin Luther King, you can say Commerce, you know what I'm saying? It was, it was kind of rough. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? How was it growing up out there? Because we all got different memories of the East Terrace, man.

When you think about East Terrace, like I said, uh, we moved out of the East Terrace periodically as my mom, you know what I'm saying, kind of got us to a better situation. Because most people don't— the East Terrace is a project or whatever, we call it a project, you know. A lot of people from different places don't consider our— but it's a project to us because, you know what I'm saying, it was hood, it was ghetto, and we witnessed a couple of things that you would normally see in the projects or whatever. But during— it was, uh, particular times to where we got to where we could, uh, I guess, experience a better situation, you know what I'm saying? And so we will move out periodically. So we actually had 4 different addresses in the East Terrace. We lived—

okay, okay.

Hornet Street. I was born on Hornet Street. We moved out and moved to the Riggsby. We had a little stint And the reason we did, when the new apartments was ready, we moved back to the East Terrace and we stayed at the top of Del Rio Walk, you know what I'm saying? At the top of, right around the corner from the bootleg corner. And we moved out, no, my mom got our first apartment and we moved on Frederick Walk. And then we moved out, we even moved to the Glen. For a stint, you know what I'm saying?

Why you start laughing?

Yeah, because you know, that's when we was doing our shit, you know what I'm saying? We moved to the Glen and then we moved back to East Terrace, Del Rio Walk. And my mother lived out there all the way up until the point to the— I got arrested and went to the penitentiary in the Glen. No, in the East when we moved back the last time.

So let me ask you, um, Are you the youngest, the oldest, the middle?

I'm the youngest out of 5 kids. I'm the oldest out of 5 kids.

I'm about to get you. I'm like, I'm drunk, I'm drinking.

No, no, but I'm the oldest out of 5 kids.

You know, I'm laughing because I know carefolk now, they're gonna be like, what, this nigga tripping?

Yeah.

Uh, so you know, you know, you're the oldest of 5 kids? Yeah. Did you feel pressure growing up, like maybe you had to set the tone? Did, did you feel pressure? Because, you know, we're cousins, but we was separated as far as like we saw each other but we didn't see each other, you know what I'm saying? So did you feel pressure from your uncle now to be kind of out there in the streets, or that was just a natural thing because of the environment you was in, man?

My uncles was cats that were known in the streets, the street cats. Yeah, but they would never pressure me into no streets. For the most part, what I can remember, even when I was on the cusp of making the decision to start running the streets or whatever, Neither one of my uncles ever, uh, pressured me to do what they did in the streets or follow them. In fact, shit, they always tried to deter me in one, uh, particular way or another. They always tried to deter me from the streets. I remember times, it was when, uh, my Uncle Rodney, he was kicking it with our cousin Danny all the time. This one, Danny was doing his thing, you already know, but when Danny was doing his thing and they would pull up And Danny had a, uh, he had a slamback Seville. I never forget, it was like burgundy. Him and Rodney would pull up on me in the East Series. I'll be out there. This was when I was just jumping off the porch and stuff. They'll pull up on me like, man, nigga, what you doing out here? You know what I'm saying? He'd be like, man, you got some money in your pocket? All of those type shit. They'll reach in their pockets and give me their little money or whatnot. But they would always tell me get my ass from up there by the basketball court. And this was before gang banging just really, really, really crunk up. And so everybody that I ran across that, as far as a male that was, um, even if they even had some business in the streets, they never wanted to see me out there in the streets. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? They always deterred me.

So that's— and I'm asking it for a reason, because oftentimes we try to say our family pushed us into certain things, but I know our family. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And shout out to the people that you, you just mentioned because they've changed their life. They're doing great, you know. One was a pastor, he's doing really good or whatever. Um, Rodney, my— just hate that. I just hate him. He's there, big mama house. He used to— him and Elwood, they used to beat me up, you know what I'm saying? You ain't gonna be no— you know, whatever, because we drove Witnesses I was square, whatever. But just the fact that to say that, I appreciate you saying that, because oftentimes people say, well, if this person in my family was doing it, then it was just a personal decision that you made, you know, from, from what it sounds like, man.

How it is, is weird how it happened with us, uh, most of us from when the inception of the, the East Terrace gang thing, or the street thing for us, started taking place.

We all—

the core, it's a, it's a core group that we already had relationships with one another because, like I said, we was giving birth to in this particular neighborhood, and we still got relationships right now to this day. Uh, like when it comes to people like me, Terrell, Damone, Blue, and, uh, it's many, many more I can name, you know what I'm saying? Buddy, uh, Graylin. It's many more, many more I can name, but for the sake of time, I can't just name all of them. But most of us, we was pretty much born out here in this, and our moms had relationship with one another. Yeah, so we was already— so y'all's family, we was basically, we was already like family.

Yeah.

And then, uh, I guess during the inception of when the, uh, Crip and Blood thing started popping off or whatnot, Deuce was already in the streets selling dope, crack, or whatnot. Crack had already hit, so I had already been familiar with the crack scene because I also had a time where I lived in the sticks in the Els Village, you know what I'm saying? This was before the gang thing though.

So let me ask you right here, what time frame, what time frame are you looking at? Because I remember for us when the Crips and Bloods— because it wasn't Bloods, Crips from what I remember. Only ones I remember gang members was Raw Dawgs and Fly Riders.

Well, in the East Tears, the Raw Dawgs Okay, Fly Riders was Pop Nym from the Rigsby.

Okay.

And you know, Pop Nym had also been out there in the sticks where the Elks Village, uh, uh, Morningview Oaks is the new name that it was, but it was the Elks Village back when we lived out there. We lived out there two times, so I have relationships with those dudes. Pop and my Uncle Rodney was best friends. Do know my Uncle Rodney was right there when Pop got shot. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And so I knew them dudes. I was running around up under the first thing I learned about drugs was from Pop.

New school skills, we won't hurt your pockets, we all have bills.

Clients are special, clipper are sterile, next level barbers will take you to the next level.

And I'm not saying this for to give it a bad name, but he taught me a good principle about it, you know what I'm saying? But that's a story within itself, I can go in.

Yeah, but yeah, well, and the reason I, I, I kind of wanted to say that because there were times where from the Wheatley Courts— and this is San Antonio, y'all, this is, this is people that's from San Antonio understand, especially a certain age bracket, they gonna understand what we're talking about— it wasn't Reyes against East Terrace or the, the Wheatley Courts against the Glen. We all was cousins. Most of us was kin to each other, whatever. I can go out and spend at your house in East Terrace. I can go to Huntley Park, you can go to Skyline, you can go Dalecrest. Like, it wasn't none of that. But I remember when it first started getting crazy. Yeah, is when that I remember. I'm saying just my personal experience. Y'all didn't have that experience, that's, that's on y'all. But when Colors came, when the movie Colors happened, then all of a sudden I remember the actual colors. People were saying, you can't wear this, you can't wear that. And I'm like, what y'all talking about? You know what I'm saying? Because like you said, before that it was just the Raw Dawgs and the Fly Riders, you know what I'm saying? Shout out to my boy, who rest in peace, L Smooth, you know what I'm saying? Let alone, like, it was cast ahead, out back, and then, you know, we was in the Glen. Yeah, we was on what we call Nigga Street, Glen Mist. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So all that stuff was just different back then. And then it seemed like the pressure came because crack came. Yeah, the gangs came. The guns got bigger, you know what I'm saying? I remember, I think it was 1994, San Antonio, '93, '94, I think we passed up LA for drive-by shootings.

Yeah, it was one of those years earlier, but I was in the penitentiary by then.

But, but I'm, you know, but I'm saying that it has started to get bad. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So what I want to talk about with you is when you went to jail, when you went to prison, what age did you go? We don't want to talk about what you did to get you there. Yeah, because we don't want to bring up any bad memories for somebody who might be associated with that situation. All right. Yeah, if that's fair. Yeah, but what age were you when you went and how much time did you get?

I was 17 years old when I, uh, got locked up for the charge I went to prison for.

Okay.

And I received two 30-year sentences, uh, ran CC.

What that mean?

Concurrent. It was two sentences at the same time, because a lot of people don't know that I went down for actually two M's.

Okay.

And, uh, I mean, I got two 30-year sentences ran concurrent, meaning that I was serving both of them at the same time.

So the way that works, and I'm only asking for myself and for people who may not know. Okay, when it's concurrent, what that means is you got a charge, you got two different sentences, but they run at the exact same time. Yeah, because correct me if I'm wrong, if they didn't run at the same time, it would be like basically 60 years. Yeah, am I saying it right?

It'll be stacked, and they consider that— they'll tell you consecutive.

Okay, okay. So you're 17 years old.

Yeah.

I, I want to ask you this right here because this is Turning Corners and it's, it's really important for me to educate people that's out there in them streets that thinking that this shit ain't real, that's thinking that when you get in there, you know, this is all fun, you know what I'm saying? 17 years old. And I say this out of respect, you've never been the biggest cousin that I had. Your Uncle Rodney was one of the biggest cousins that I remember because he was so stacked up with muscles. Edward was— he's— Edward is 100 years old, he still stopped, you know what I'm saying? Your brother Jermaine, you know, is still— I'm sorry, D.R.— still a big, you know, big dude or whatever. So we come from a family of, you know, whatever. At 17 years old, you wasn't really a big dude. And I'm saying this out of respect. How is that? How is that going to prison, 17 years old, not being the biggest dude? Now I know your heart's always been a lion, no doubt about it, but how is that going to prison at that age, having to deal with that?

Not only am I gonna say I was, um, I ain't gonna— I don't want to use the term conditioned for it, but being from the East Terrace, regardless of what anybody got to say or what they think, but just being from the East Terrace, and when you really East Terrace prepares you for— I don't give a damn what it is you, you, you gotta face, it prepares you for it. So I'm not gonna say that I was prepping for the penitentiary or whatnot, but I was prepared for pressure, put it like that.

So at 17, mentally, you was, you was conditioned. And I, and I'm not— I don't like that word.

That's why I say, but yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because the shit that you see and the shit that you experience, the shit that you may do, the shit that somebody may attempt to do to you or do to you in the streets when you from the East Terrace, from that area that I came from, shit, I mean, shit. And you stand tall and you get through all of that. I mean, the penitentiary, regardless of how rough it is It ain't gonna never trump that to me. Yeah, and somebody else from a different hood may have a different opinion, but my experience through these tears and what it taught and what it gave me, the penitentiary was a cakewalk.

So before we get into the penitentiary, one of the myths that, that I hear people talk about a lot is that being raised in a certain community, there's no pride, there's no family, there's no love. I hear people who've never been in those environments talk about, I can't believe they live this particular way. It's hard-pressed for me to find a person in San Antonio that show more pride for the East Terrace than you. And when I say pride, I'm not saying— and I'm not— I'm just saying from who I know. I don't know them. Yeah, right. But what I'm saying is it's not as bad as people say it is, because when you in it, it's family. When you're in it, these people— I love you, you love me, we struggling together. We might not have what y'all might got on the other side of town or whatever, but it's love.

I think with me, Kenfolk, it's like you hit it on the nose when you talk— when you say family. A lot of the people that you see me close to are like family. When I speak about Terrell's Diane, his mama was in the emergency room when, uh, my mama gave birth. To me, his mama and my mama been friends since they was young, bro. Yeah, she know my daddy, shit like that. And so them niggas is family.

Yeah. Yeah, and you know what, I, I think, I think it's important that, that people understand that just because you may not have blood, the bond that you have— because, because let's be real, sometimes going through shit create a better bond. Because I know you don't— you're not there for that bullshit. You're not there because I got something. You're not there because you know, you can use me for, you know, my brand or whatever. Nigga, you there, you my dog, you know what I'm saying? You know what's crazy is people don't understand the love that people have, especially when you're going through something, because something about when you go through stuff it seemed like the love stick a little harder, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, because, because, you know, sometimes people use you for your stuff, you know. Sometimes people use you because they feel like they can maneuver something, you know. I, I've been used by some women. I've been used by some, some dudes in this industry or whatever, some people that just wanted to use my name to put on the flyer or whatever. Like, I even had people put me on the flyer, didn't even pay me. Like, nigga, wait, I ain't say yes, you know what I'm saying? But they sold tickets, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, um, shout out to your family, man. That's, that's thicker than blood, you know what I'm saying? Thicker than blood. Yeah. Um, so I do understand that the environment that you came from helped shape and mold you getting into— once you got to the penitentiary, like, you may not have been as afraid as somebody else.

Yeah.

But at 17 years old, there had to be some type of uncomfortable moments, just at least going in saying, I'm gonna be away from my family. Like, when the judge told you you had that much time, do you recall what was going through your head? Because I can't imagine somebody saying You got 30 years, nigga.

I'm not gonna lie to you, and it ain't no cap, at 17 years old when they told me I had 30 years, you know, they pump your head up. At that time they was doing, uh, 1/4 of your sentence at TDC, so they was pumping me up as to where I was only gonna be gone for 7 years. So I was looking at that like I'd be home by the time I was 24 or 25. So it really wasn't no big thing because I— you gotta mind you, I was— I'm a 17-year-old gangbanger now at this particular time when this happened. So in my head, I was gonna go down there and do 7 years, as we see— as we used to say back in the game, uh, standing on my dick, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I can do 7 years on my dickhead. That's how I feel. I'm not gonna, uh, lie to you.

Wow.

Okay, that was my mindset. But had I known they would have sat my black ass down for as long as they did, yeah. I think I would have had a different outlook, different perspective, yeah, you know what I'm saying? But I was just at that particular— the mind of a 17-year-old gangbanger. Shit, nigga, I'm finna go down there and rock the hood, come out and be back in the mix.

So when you, when you caught chain, you know, you know, you caught and you went, what was the first place that you went after you left Bexar County?

The first place that I went after I left Bexar County was, uh, my first unit was French Robinson, okay, in Abilene, Texas. It had, uh, recently been open. It had been opened up for a couple of— about 1 or 2 years or whatnot. And so that was the first place I went.

Did you, did you know anybody?

Like, yeah, we actually had somebody in common with us.

Chico was up there, my cousin Chico.

Yeah, but they called him Zigzag. For real? Yeah, man. When I first pulled up on that motherfucker, I'm in the, uh, I'm in the, uh, holding cell transit. When you first get there, they put you in transit till you see classification, and they classify you to see where they gonna put you at. So I'm you got to be in the house, uh, 23 in, then they let you out for a shower, and then you got to go back in the cell or whatever. So I'm in the cell, some dude pull up on me, SSI, which is a janitor. He pull up on me and he talking about, man, who, who over here named Doo Dirty? I'm like, what's up? He say, man, here, and just went to sliding all types of, uh, food and shit talking about, that's from Zag. Whole time I don't know what the fuck— who the hell Zag is, right?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. So I just— because I've never heard this story.

This is—

so you in a cell?

Oh yeah.

And Zig Zag, our cousin Chico?

Zig Zag? Well, I don't know this is our cousin Chico at this time.

Okay.

I just know him as Chico.

Okay.

I don't know he Zig Zag.

Okay.

But Some strange fella pull up on my cell. Now mind you, I've been conditioned about the penitentiary. You don't take nothing from nobody. You, you see a honey bun on your bed, you better not eat it, all this old type shit, because the dude gonna try to get you and all this. And some strange fella come sliding some stuff up under my door talking about this from Zag. I don't know who the hell no Zag is. And so I immediately start kicking all that shit back up under the door. You tell whoever the hell Zag is catch me out there on the run, right? And so he looking— dude standing out there looking at me, he like, no, come on, little brother. And then he kind of like opened up. He like, nah, little brother, Zigzag, man, he say he your cousin. I'm like, man, I don't know about no cousin up here. He like, man, Chico, Chico, that's what they call him. I'm like, Oh, my bad, Chico.

He said I didn't—

my bad.

He said his whole government name. Yeah, he don't use no government names on this damn podcast.

So, uh, he like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's him, you know what I'm saying? He like— I'm like, man, oh, that's my fam. He like, yeah, he heard you was over here, you know what I'm saying? And he shoot you some shit. And so, shit, Chico was over there. Oh my, my kids—

I gotta say this right. Shout out to Chico, he's doing a great job with Boys football. Shout out to Chico, I gotta put that out there. Uh, go ahead, I'm sorry, I just, I just had to put that out there because he's doing really good.

Yeah, but it was a couple of people over there that I knew. Uh, BB from the Willie Courts— well, I didn't know him, but I knew of BB because BB was kind of older.

So, so let me ask this right here. When you get locked up in on a situation like that, even if you're enemies outside or you're from a different set outside— and I'm asking because I'm really ignorant Yeah, say I'm a Blood outside, I'm a Crip outside, I'm from East Taylor, from the Wheatley Courts, whatever. We're not really cool, but we locked up, we from the same city. Do y'all mount up together or there still be— because, you know, I mean, I don't know how it works.

It, to me, from the times that I've been in the vicinity of something like that going on while I was incarcerated It depends on the level of the beef in the streets, because I done been on the unit when the Wheelie Courts and the East Terrace was, uh, beefing at one time. I've been on the unit with a brother from the Wheelie Courts, and, uh, we were sticking steves because we knew each other from the streets. But, and so we had a good rapport in the streets. And that brother used to hang with us in the streets. A lot of people fail to realize about me is that when I got locked up, we really didn't have no major beef. We had specific things that was going on, but we really didn't have no major beef because with a lot of those things jumped off as— nah, they was Wheelie Courts and we was East Terrace. It's just that for the most part, we all family.

Gotcha.

You know what I'm saying? When you get some, some main characters and shit, when you look at that shit, we all family, you know what I'm saying? And so like one of they main hitters, rest in peace Lil Quincy, my stepdaddy married to his mama right now, been married to him. And so, huh, quit rocking.

Oh, somebody watching, they gonna be like, this nigga is—

my stepdaddy is married to his mother right now and they've been married for Gears and Miss Florine or whatever. But, uh, LaQuince was like a brother to me, a brother to me.

So even though, even though you're from a different set, different hood, yeah, down there it's kind of like everything, like, even if you're not —horizons and more.

I work hard all week, it's time to unwind.

Give me a drink and a peace of mind.

I need to go to where the grown folks play. 30 and up only, no kids today.

Only one place I'm going.

Great crowds for sure, meet some good people. Horizons and more. Gonna dance tonight, I'm on the patio. The vibe Hey, Mr. DJ, yeah, you play my song. Been in the house for way too long, gotta let my head down, have some grown folk talk in the safe town streets. Now follow me, let's go, let's go.

But so say you hooked up with a vato that's from a different set or whatever because you're from San Antonio. You still cool? Or is it— I mean, I'm just, I'm curious. Like, like, like, say if you're not Black and say you from the West Side, do you just click up because you from San Antonio, or that really don't mean anything?

I mean, you can. I mean, you, you can. It, it, it does happen because I had a, uh, uh, uh, ese that I knew that was real, real cool. And, uh, me and him got to the point that we was damn near like brothers or whatnot down there. You know what I'm saying? So you can't— I mean, it just depends on the individual, you know.

Everybody's experience is different. Yeah. You know, do you think going so young was a benefit for you, or it hurt? You know what I mean? Because say, for instance, if I go at my age right now, I don't know if I could mentally deal with it because life has— is different for me.

You know that old saying that we was always taught, that, uh, you know, I always heard that they say God ain't gonna give you a burden that you don't have the strength to bear. I kind of look at that and I gotta say that, uh, I'm not gonna say destiny, or it was meant for me to go through those hardships, whatever. I mean, that was my experience, you know what I'm saying? From the penitentiary to the juvenile, whatever I did or whatever I went through. And, um, up until this point, it didn't got me to where I'm at right now. Gotcha. And so I don't know if, uh, I'm not gonna say death destiny for people or whatever.

I, I, and I don't even mean destiny, I just mean because, because it seems like, and I, and I could be 100% wrong, I've heard people that go at a younger age and it seems like they're adjusting more quickly because they was young already. And then I hear people that on the other side of it went maybe 30 years old and they had already went through certain things. Like, for instance, at 17, I'm like, did you even have a driver's license at that time? No. You know what I'm saying? Like, had you even learned how to drive at that time? Yes. You bad. You do— it's in the cards. Yeah. Yeah, shout out to that Chico character too, as I caught my first case.

Uh, taught us how to steal cars. He taught me how to steal cars.

He taught me the same thing. He gonna find both of us. Okay, okay, so let's go here for a minute. So you went, you did, you did your time. Are there any stories that you want to talk about while you was down there? That either good or bad that might, you know, just kind of give people some light on it?

When it comes to, uh, prison stories right now, it's like it's a, uh, a smorgasbord of dudes on YouTube and the internet sharing all these different prison stories and, uh, Initially, I wanted to come home and do that in the attempts to kind of like shed some light on certain things and whatnot. But then after seeing the, uh, industry is kind of like flooded with it and it's all seemed like the same, and it seems like all them dudes is trying to do is all trump who did the better time or whatever, or who was more gangster or whatever. Yeah, I don't want to be a part of that, people. Per, uh, that particular, uh, crowd when it comes to these, uh, prison stories and shit. So if I say a story, it's gonna be a lesson that I was taught.

Give me a lesson then.

I'ma say one of the most important lessons that I learned down there was travel the path of least resistance. And ironically, it was taught to me by a, a brother who a lot of people see kind of like as, as a clown. Uh, I had been in the penitentiary for some years right now, and I was doing— at this particular time, I was kind of doing good. I had kind of like shied back away from the gangbanging lifestyle. I had actually picked up the Quran and became Muslim, and I had invested myself so much in Islam that I, I had reached the level to where— I had reached the level to where I was considered like Imam. I taught myself Arabic, so yeah, I know, I know Arabic. I taught myself how to read, write Arabic, speak it, understand it, all of those uh, while I was down there, you know what I'm saying?

And, uh, you know what, we just real quick, I think it's interesting. One of the things that always gets me, and this is not on the notes or whatever, this is just something that always gets me. When people go to prison, a lot of them, they, they have a certain way of thinking because the environment that they're in, they whatever. But then when they come home, a lot of them are really smart. They didn't learn how to play chess, they didn't read the, the, with the Laws of Power and all those stuff. They, they, they are really intelligent. And because they have had time to think and reflect, oftentimes they're a little smarter than the average cat who's still going, going, going on this rat race. I've always thought it was interesting that these people who were our youngest soldiers are the ones that kind of we need to listen to because they have some knowledge that we don't have because they've actually had time to sit back and unplug from the Matrix, you know what I'm saying? And they've been— they've been able to learn some things that we haven't. Yeah, but because they have that mark on them, because they've done some time or whatever— although we don't say that about the president— we kind of like dismiss them. But I know for a fact, because this is, this is in my notes, you've gotten degrees, you've gotten educated, you've got— you've turned the corner. This is turning corners. You've turned the corners. And now I didn't even know that you speak Aramaic. Yeah. Why is it, is it, do you think that people kind of dismiss people who had a rocky past, not knowing that they could actually be the keys to, to your, to your healing?

I can't answer from the perspective of the person that is opposing, but I can only answer from my, uh, understanding of what I feel like now. Because when I first came home, I'm not gonna lie to you, fam, it was a bunch of people who was willing to, uh, invest in me and, um, sit up to be a resource because they felt that I had the potential to do a certain amount of things, but they got afraid. And, uh, one of the biggest reasons why they got afraid of me, because they felt like I was too, uh, I'ma say, uh, connected with the East Terrace, okay, in order to, uh, provide me with their resources or whatnot to get up my— off my feet and get my ground and push forward to where I could, uh, sit back and, you know, dispense information or whatever, because that's all I can do. So you think they was afraid of you because they felt like I would have been a, uh, a hindrance maybe? No, just I would have been a waste of time because I was still too connected to these areas, and they were just looking at it as from the gangbanging point of view.

Yeah, you know what, and it's interesting you say that because that coming home— first of all, let me say this, like, I gotta, I gotta ask this. I've always wanted to know this and I've never asked anybody. What did it feel like when you knew you had a date to come home? Because I, I don't know what that's like to know that Okay, I'll be home for Christmas this year. I don't know what that's like, you know. I have no idea what that even feels like.

I had got in the— to the point to where I had felt like, all right, nigga, you finna do the whole 30. I'm not— I'm not gonna even lie to you, no cap. It had already— I had set in my mind that when I hit my 25-year mark, it's set in my mind that, nigga, you finna do the whole 30. So I had— so Hope was—

Hope was gone for early release parole, man.

Come on.

I mean, I don't know.

I've been gone since 1992, and here it is, I'm 20 years in my sentence, 25 years in my sentence. And they still ain't let me go, and I done been up for parole all these goddamn times. See what, uh, what the system play games so much to where they play semantic with words, and if you don't know no better, you'll get caught up in the trap. My sentence was non-affirmative finding of a weapon, being that non-affirmative finding of a weapon. Okay, that was my judgment. I never heard that shit before. Meaning that it was considered in Texas what they call non-aggravated. This is before they had all the 3G laws and all that shit. Meaning that non-affirmative finding of a weapon is not aggravated, saying they're not going to treat it aggravated. Meaning that you, after you do— I forgot what percentage amount of time you supposed to come home— you eligible for parole. Don't mean you going to come home, it just mean you eligible for parole or whatever. And so they basically tricked my dumb ass into— when I got convicted, they tricked me into signing, uh, for a cap or whatever, because they was talking about life, but they tricked me into signing for a cap, for a 30-year cap on my sentence, meaning that no matter what happened during the sentencing phase, they can't go higher than 30 years, you know what I'm saying? Even though they gave me the max. So they have a lawyer? Yeah, I had a lawyer, but it was old court-appointed lawyer, you know.

Uh, I mean, I don't know, I'm asking.

Oh, court-appointed judge. Uh, uh, he was a good dude though, you know what I'm saying? But he did what he could or whatever. He did what he could or whatever at the end of the day. But, uh, they swindled me, but I guess it was all in the plan or whatever. And I signed for a 30-year cap, and meaning they can't— no matter what happens, I'm going through the sentencing phase, but no matter what happens, they can't go no higher than the 30 years. And then, like you said, like I'm saying, I'm not stupid, nigga. I'm facing two M's. One of the M's I can't do nothing about because I don't even want to get into that, right? But the one everybody know that from the basketball court, I'm like, nigga, this was broad daylight.

So let me ask this right here then. Let me ask this because we want to talk about the other side of it because we was talking about you coming home, right? When you knew you was coming home. Let's talk about the first time you're at home, because one of the cousins you talked about— and we're not going to say his name again because he gonna curse both of us out— uh, one of the cousins that, that came home, I actually picked him up from the bus station. Me and rest, rest of us, so my aunt Alice, we picked him up from the bus station and He thought I was selling drugs. I put him up in a Mercedes. I'm like, yeah, I'm working. Like, you know, you've been gone for a while, you know what I'm saying, Kifo? What was it like hitting back home? Were you nervous? Were you excited? Like, the first time you seen your people, were you like, damn, everything has changed? I'm asking because I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, I was, uh, I was excited. I'm not gonna lie. I was excited to, uh, see my people. And, uh, the first person I saw in the family was my mama. And, you know, that was a, a blessing, a, a beautiful thing. And I actually got— because I had to go to a halfway house, and so I actually got to ride the Greyhound bus all the way from Abilene, Texas to San Antonio, just me and my mom.

Oh, so she came up there?

She rode the bus all the way to Abilene, Texas to be at the bus station. To where— because where I was, yo, they dropped me off. They drove me from Brownwood, Texas, because I was in a, uh, 6-month, uh, facility. Okay. For the, uh, the parole stipulation that I got, I had to go through 180 days of re-entry programs before they put me in society. And so they sent me to this facility in Brownwood, Texas. And so the, uh, biggest place where they had a bus station at was Abilene. So they drove me to Abilene and dropped me off from there. My mama rode the bus all the way up there to meet me in Abilene, Texas, and rode the bus all the way back to San Antonio with me. That's cool.

That, that, that's cool.

So, uh, that was the first person I saw, and I was, I was excited.

So I remember, and I'm only going off of memories and He would probably have a different memory. When I took him home, we stopped at HEB and on Foster Road, and I remember him looking around like, like, I mean, you know what I'm saying, like, like a little kid, man.

Look, when they dropped me off at the bus station in Abilene, my mom and them hadn't made it up there yet. My mom and my mother and them hadn't made it up there yet when they dropped me off. So I had a little time. Now the dude, the TTC officer that was in the van, he was telling me that he couldn't leave or whatever, and he was trying to convince me. It was a Walmart and an HEB like right across the street from the bus station, and I was like, man, I'm gonna go to the Walmart and buy me some t-shirts and hygiene and stuff. I know I gotta go to this halfway house, right? And so he was like, well, get in the van. And I'm like, nigga, I'm not TTC property. Fuck you. You know what I'm saying? You can't do nothing. So he calling the warden of the unit, and the warden telling him, technically he right. You can't— long as he— we just supposed to, uh, be here when the bus pull up so we can let the people know whether or not he got on the bus or not. That's all our job. You technically though— so I I walked across the street to the HEB.

And when I— so wait, hold on, so he was trying to stop you from like—

no, he felt like that he was, he was a TDC officer, and so his job was— I done made parole already, so technically they ain't got no hold on me, but he was supposed to sit there and— because TDC done paid for a bus ticket for me to get to the halfway house to Corpus. And so I had 24 hours to get to the halfway house in Corpus. And so TDC looking at it like they have to, uh, they said the dude was sitting at a— when the bus— my bus come because I had a 2-hour layover. I'm waiting on the bus to come. So the dude, uh, uh, uh, was sitting there to either make sure I get on the bus when the bus come or don't get on the bus. And all he report back because TDC didn't spend money on the bus ticket for me. So he can report back and what— well, he didn't get on the bus, Ward. And so I guess they can get their money back. I don't know what it is, but he had to— he told me he had to sit there until my bus came. When my bus drove off, he can leave, but he had to watch and see what I do when my bus came.

So he didn't know it was a layover?

Yeah, he knew it was a layover, but what I'm saying, it was— he was still employed. He on the TTC job. Gotcha. And so I'm still technically not under his watch, but he need to just sit there. They told him when my bus pull off, that's when he can pull off. Gotcha. And he just need to report whether or not I got on the bus or not. Gotcha. You know what I'm saying? And so I had walked across the street to the HEB, and when I was just walking down the cereal aisle and I was just looking at all the goddamn different cereals and shit, I'm like, man, The fuck? I'm seeing all these different flavors and shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm laughing. I apologize.

I was only used to Corn Flakes, a box of seed flakes on that motherfucker. Damn, dog.

Damn. So, so can I ask you a question? Oh, I've heard people say, and I don't know how true it is, they say that when you, when you are locked up at a certain age Mentally, you already see where I'm going with this. Mentally, that's, that's where you stay at until you become free. Am I, am I saying it right? And you said it right, because, because a certain person told me, one of my customers told me, he said, I got locked up at this age, 20 years later I came home, I didn't know how to talk to a woman my age. Because I was only shooting at guards. So I had to like, damn, how do I talk to a 40-year-old woman but I got locked up at 20?

I was— what I was— am I saying what I was finna say? And, uh, it depends on what aspect of life you're talking about. Now if you're talking about a relationship, of course. Now of course we can have a relationship through letters with different females or whatever. And of course we can have a relationship through— if we was to happen to be blessed with the opportunity to have a relationship with a female guard or a nursing staff member or something like that, of course you can have it. But you would never get the full experience of a relationship unless you was, uh, in a particular position where you didn't have restraints or shackles and Of course, TDC is a shackle or a hindrance on a, uh, relationship from thriving, you know what I'm saying? So it just depends. Certain aspects of life, yeah, but it— in other certain aspects of life, you can excel or whatever. But in certain aspects of life, yeah, you're still mentally that particular type of individual at that age that you got locked up at.

I want to talk to you about coming home and adjusting. We, we, we almost finished, but I, I, I, I recall our, our run-ins because I was like, you know, I'm not that same Ray from the Glen. Yeah. And you was like, and then you was talking about certain family members. I'm like, you like, and I remember this, man. I remember this like, like, oh my God, it's You was like, man, family ain't— why ain't we doing this? And I'm like, bruh, the time you've been gone, family— some family members have screwed over other family members. This person don't mess with this person. This person did drugs. This person messed with this person's baby mama. All the different things that happened. And I remember you was so disappointed, but you don't know this, you made me come home and think. I'm like damn, it must be nice to still remember the good old days when like, you know, Big Mama was alive and different things. But it was like you didn't see the fuckery or the fuck shit, as you know, that went on with certain family members. And of course I'm not saying nobody's name or whatever, but when you come home, that adjustment gotta be hard as fuck because you remember me as big cuz. Yeah, you didn't see the '20s, the '30s, you know what I'm saying, the, the different shit. You've heard stories probably, but you didn't see that. How the fuck do you adjust to that, especially leaving at such a young age and then coming home, you like, man, we ain't—

family don't fuck with each other like this no more.

Like, what the hell?

For me, um, I mean, I just saw— I'm gonna say, uh, cross— I mean, I don't want to say cross-section, but I just saw fuck shit. Yeah, experience from all different types of angles. But I don't know, I can't talk about nobody else in our family.

Yes, and I want you to. I actually—

no, I'm not gonna name no specifics, but I actually had the opportunity to be raised up on the Big Mama. You know, I actually lived at that house.

We know, you spoiled motherfucker. Uh, I'm sorry, I cussed like that.

My bad. Big Mama, um, had a, a hell of an influence on me, and it was certain principles that she taught me that sticks to me to this day, and one of them is family. You know, family gonna fuck up. And there's family that you got to cut off at the neck. She told me that. I'm not gonna even hold you. Big Mama told me that. But also Big Mama told me that, uh, family is important. And so I, I just— people gonna be them. I don't know the experiences. I've been gone, and I just love to enjoy the, uh fun memories that I have of our family, you know what I'm saying? Everything else that I, I'm not— I don't want to shit on them or whatnot, but I just don't wanna, you know what I'm saying? And so I still see us as who we was when I was a kid in so many, uh, ways or whatever. I had to learn that a lot of people don't accept that or, uh, want to live with that. But I'm, I'm not tripping. You, you have your reasons, and more power to you. Long as you love me when I show you love, I'm not tripping.

It, it, it's, it's, it's, it's important with what, what, what message— and I know this is a loaded question What message— why you laughing at us? What message would you give a 16-year-old Anthony at your age now? What, what message would you— if you, if you had a machine where you can go back and say, hey bro, what message would you give? I'm talking about before going to prison or whatever. What message would you give to yourself back then, knowing what you know now? I know it's a great question. I'm good at what I do.

It— there gonna be times in your life where you feel like, uh, things ain't gonna turn out good. But just keep pressing forward and make sure every situation or every experience that you get in, whether bad or good, you dig into it and, uh, filter out the lesson that you was supposed to learn. Because I feel like everything that you go to go through in life or life experiences, they are teaching, uh, lessons for you to learn in order to prepare you to the next level or whatnot. So yeah, it's gonna be all right. But I mean, you gonna go through some shit, but every— it's gonna be all right. You're gonna make it through, you know what I'm saying? Because I like that.

I like that. I mean, no, no, no, I love that. I love it. Uh, I think Tupac said, make it through the night, there's a brighter day. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Um, So, so because this is Turning Corners and I'm so proud of the man that you are because I've seen you part of your journey. I hate when people say I've seen your journey, bitch. You wasn't there at 3 o'clock in the morning, you know what I'm saying? But I'm going through shit, you wasn't there, you know. But I want, I want to ask you a question. What part of your life did you say, okay, now I've turned the corner? Because since you've been home, you are a different person. You are, um, you have to go through that adjustment period, you know what I'm saying? Coming to the barbershop, that ugly-ass cowboy shit on, you know what I'm saying? Fuck that. Fly Eagles fly, you know what I'm saying? But when did you feel like you turned a corner? Because I see you now. Your mindset is different, your attitude is different. Um, not in a negative way. I'm not saying that you was bad then, but you was adjusting, right? When do you think you've turned the corner?

I kind of got, uh, outside of myself where I felt like I was crossed by somebody that was close to me. Gotcha. Yeah. Uh, when I saw the things that I was doing or whatnot, uh, as a result to what I felt, the offense that had occurred to me, uh, I realized that a lot of the shit that I was doing wasn't really, um, manly. Gotcha. You know what I'm saying? I was doing some bitch shit, put it like that. You know what I'm saying?

So You went through some shit.

You said it, I didn't. I'm just—

so don't jump on me.

Niggas, uh, like to say they keep it 100 or whatever, and a lot of times niggas don't want to keep it 100 though when it's dealing with themselves. You know what I'm saying? They want to placate their ego and emotions. Yes sir. When you really about progress, you know what I'm saying? If you, you being a bitch, you gonna— nigga, you was being a bitch.

Yeah, you was being a bitch.

You was being a bitch. And so, uh, when I just really thought about it— and this happened a couple of years back, this ain't even no recent shit. No, no, that's happened some years back. Yeah. But when I just really thought about it, I said, you know what, you was a bitch.

You know what, you said that shit, I didn't. And make sure I put that out there. I ain't say none of that shit, so don't fuck me up. I can't fight, I got asthma. Um, so what's one thing— can't vote— what's one thing, and I ask every guest this, what's one thing, one part of your life where you just can't get right? I don't give a fuck, it can be cooking chicken, It can be you can't iron, it can be you can't parallel park. What is something that you just can't fucking get right? Oh shit, here we go.

I want to be, I want to be honest, but I'm not— I want you to lie. I'm just, I'm just not sure about how honest that, uh, say it, nigga, say it.

We here.

Okay. Let me be honest, you know, when you in the penitentiary for as long as I have, and me and one of my homies, we talk about this shit all the time. Uh, one of our biggest downfalls that we can't get right, we, we don't know no other way to give a woman some dick But the relationship kind of dick— see, there's levels to the dick that you give.

Okay, I'm listening.

There's levels, you know. You got relationship dick to where when you just— they, they, they feel like y'all, y'all, y'all in love. I'm talking about it could be the first you could met in 30 minutes, but if you give it a relationship dick, y'all in love. And then there's just wham bam thank you ma'am, you know, going on about your business. When you in prison and, uh, if you ain't had the fortune to, uh, have relationships with female guards and staff members or all that, I don't know what I'm saying. And I was fortunate in certain areas and whatnot, and I was able to do a little bit. But you know, some niggas have where they hold prison time, they doing that. But me, it was just here and there. But all you be thinking about is when you get out and you put that hammer on somebody. And so the only way we know how to do it is relationship. It's just relationship, dick. We, we be putting down all the way, nigga, man.

So, okay, so let me just understand it.

That's why I just can't get right.

I'm slow. So even somebody that you don't have no feelings for You give them the relationship dick. So you creating chaos. What?

I understand. That is my problem. That's what I can't get right, brother. Okay. I cannot get it right. I be whispering sweet nothings in their ear when I'm on top. Okay, baby, we gonna do it. We gonna get it on, baby. Yeah, baby, it's me and you. And I wake up in the morning and I don't feel that way. And now she in her feelings. What? For no awful ties.

No, no, you can't, you can't do that.

But that's why I can't get right, because you're making them feel some kind of way. I, I feel that, but I'm just saying that. But do you tell them you lied later on after it gets up? Yeah, after your windows are smashed and it's too late by the end because I didn't already went through all the drama and shit. But that's the part of my life that I have But if you know—

hold on, hold up! If you have learned your lesson from the chaos that he brings, why keep doing it?

I haven't learned my lesson to this point but previously my one lesson that I had no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Hold on, hold on, I ain't gonna let you get away with that. Cause I just asked you what's something that you can't get right, and you said this. That's why I couldn't get right. No, I ain't saying something you couldn't. That's past tense, nigga. You educated. You said I can't, so that mean you still doing that shit, lying. No, I, I've been chilling lately, I ain't gonna lie. You can't put the thumb in the booty and tell me you love her.

I'm sorry, I mean, I've been chilling. I've been chilling lately, been staying at home and, you know, yes, staying out the way.

So yeah, don't get your ass— that's the one thing, man. Oh man, these stories can load, but I don't even get to go there. But listen, okay, before we end, I gotta ask the question that's important, probably one of the most important questions I'm gonna ask you tonight. What the fuck you think about LeBron going to Philly, man? Do you care? You know what I'm saying? Because I'm Spurs all day.

I really don't care because I'm a Spurs fan. But when it comes to LeBron, because I be having this heated discussion with our good folks, even Kip Fogerty, I had this discussion, you know, they LeBron fans, uh, or whatnot. And I don't dislike LeBron or whatever. But I just don't like his— how he play basketball. I mean, it's as simple as that, you know what I'm saying? To me, Jordan was all there is when it comes to basketball.

So who's the GOAT?

I just—

to me, Jordan. You put Jordan over Kareem? Ah, ah, ah, right.

And I'm just— the reason why I'm saying that is because Kareem, to me, his style of play was— I mean, He did what he needed to do. He got the business done. And I'm not saying that he's a trash player, as well as I wouldn't say LeBron is a trash player or whatnot, but his style of play, sky hook, uh, block some shots, uh, it wasn't something that I'm just wanting to just—

so when it came to MJ, so, so hold on, because I'm, I'm a Kareem. To me, that's my GOAT. All right, greatest in high school, 4 championships, greatest in college. Championships. They told him you can't dunk. He created a style that to this day you can't stop. LeBron ain't created nothing. Jordan ain't created nothing but, but some, but some great shoes that I'm— I got on, you know.

Yeah, man, Jordan had everybody wearing one, uh, the thing on that one leg with the, uh—

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he had— no, no, I'm not saying Jordan wasn't Jordan, but let's be honest though.

If I could be like Mike.

No, no. What? First of all, uh, I'mma say this: Michael Jackson dunked on Jordan.

That was a commercial, bro.

Life is too short, bitch.

Now turn that corner. Real player, real player, dream chaser.