Building the Future of Internet Products

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The beautiful thing about community based products is it's a very organic way to build product. You don't really need to have. Like this is how I think I'm going to build a billion dollar company. Because you're going to be hearing not whispers from your community, but screams from your community that this is what they like, this is what they don't like. So I also think another cool part about community based products is, is it's the least risky way to build product.

I need some traction. You need some traction. Let's get some traction.

Hey, what's up innovators, entrepreneurs, visionaries and disruptors. This is your Traction podcast host Lloyd Lobo. We're a community of over 100,000 people just like yourself on a mission to help you get the methods, the money and the madness to explode your business growth. Featuring stories and tactical advice straight from those who've done it before like Shopify, Twilio, Asana and many more.

Super excited to have fellow Canadian Greg Eisenberg today with us. Greg is the co founder of Late Checkout. It's a venture studio based on community and Web3 products and he's going to tell us all about it. He's the venture partner at Indicator Fund and a growth advisor at TikTok. Previously he was the head of product strategy at WeWork and founder of island and Five By. Thanks for joining us at Traction Greg. How are you doing? Where are you tuning in from?

So I'm tuning in from basically the woods. So I'm staring out on a bunch of forests. I'm in nature originally where I'm from. So just yeah, spending time in nature in Canada, definitely.

Canada is beautiful. And where you're at and you're in the woods in Tremblant, you said.

Exactly.

Montreal somewhere.

Exactly outside Montreal. Undisclosed location.

It's gorgeous there. Awesome. So firstly introduce us to late checkout. And what prompted you to start the company?

So my core thesis is that community based products outperform non community based products and I'll define That for some of the listeners. So what is a community based product? Either the community is the product. So for example, if you're a clubhouse, if you lose the users you're going to lose a lot of that value accrual or if you have a lot of users, you're going to get a lot of value accrual. Or the community enhances the product. So for example, Bored Ape Yacht Club board. Ape Yacht Club would be worth zero if it wasn't for the network and the community around it. The more valuable the holders are, the more value accrues to the, to that actual product. But the product itself isn't a community. So had this thesis, had been working and thinking about it for the last 15 years and said what would a Berkshire Hathaway of community based products look like? And started late checkout and that's what it is. We have three business units. We've got a fund where we invest our own money in startups, community based products. We've got a studio where we're really passionate about a niche. We'll go and actually incubate our own ideas and fund it ourselves. And then we've got an agency which is the leading product design agency that, that works with most of the products you use every day and we're behind actually supercharging those communities through products.

That is amazing. And I agree with you. You know, I've studied from Harley Davidson to HubSpot to Gameside and every major community out there from the big brands to tech products and I found that ultimately if you build a community, you won't become a commodity. Every product eventually becomes a commodity.

Right?

Like the GPS was this massive thing you couldn't get your hands on and then it was an auction. Yesterday's innov becomes today's option and then eventually becomes a commodity with now that CarPlay. But if you build a community, you won't become a commodity. The community keeps you going and fueling innovation and ideas and growth.

Yeah, I'll tell a quick story here. In 2014, I was on a flight from Warsaw, Poland to New York and the person sitting next to me was wearing all leather. He looked like a biker, he looked like a Harley Davidson guy. If I'm going on a flight, I'm not trying to wear all leather, tight leather pants, leather jacket, like that's I'm wearing like the complete opposite. Like sweatpants, cozy maybe hoodie. This is a long flight. And I asked the guy, I was like, dude, why are you wearing that? And he turns out he was the CMO of Harley Davidson. And he was like, I'm a Harley guy. And he told me the story about like basically how identity is so important to Harley Davidson fans and how it really is a brand play. And he would rather wear this because he wants other people on the plane to notice that he's a part of that community.

That is fantastic. The company almost went bankrupt in the 80s and then came back and refocused and strategized and rebuilt around the ethos of community, starting with their writer club. Then everyone went out there. So that is probably one of the most OG examples of community and that has created an iconic brand with a lot of raving fans today. But how did you get into community? Maybe give us your backstory.

Sure. So I'm a nerd, really. We were trying to schedule this call not because like I had back to back meetings, but because I've got a set of hobbies that I really like to do and they're important to me. So I'm one of those people that has just been very into different communities and niches as a kid and today and oh, and like you, I didn't grow up in New York City or Hong Kong. I grew up in a smaller city that didn't have access to the people that potentially shared my hobbies. So what I found really cool about the Internet was the fact that you can pull together. People talk about the metaverse today like the metaverse is the Internet and we could basically go on to this thing called the Internet and get to learn about something, get to do something, get to play with other people and have this fantastic experience around self discovery. So that's just always been why I think the Internet has been so cool. It just so happens now I do it as a profession.

For me, my first experience with community was as a refugee of the Gulf war. So the 90s, the Gulf War took place. I was like 8 year old kid and everyone split pretty much. And so the community came together and that was no phone, no email, no Internet. The community came together and helped evacuate the people. Right. Every, every apartment building effectively became a sub community. Somebody would come down, look concerned, others would join. They're like, hey, we gotta do something about it and then organize. Okay, you're going to come and handle security at this time and I'm going to bring supplies. And eventually it came together and buses came together to evacuate people, community leaders and whatnot. It was like probably one of the biggest case studies in community, especially when there was no cell phones, no Internet, none of that so yeah, man, I can totally resonate with being not in a major city with all access and needing the community help. Help you through and really help your passions come to fruition, really. So how do you define community in your experience? Because a lot of people say we have community, but really what they have is an audience, not really a community.

Yeah, exactly. So to me there's a difference between. I think of it as like a funnel, basically. So at the top I see audience, which is basically just people who have an interest. So for example, I like spaghetti. I might follow an Instagram account with Al Dante spaghetti. It doesn't mean I consider myself a part of the community of spaghetti lovers. Let's say deeper to that is a community, which to me is almost like a lifestyle that you have. If you live and breathe spaghetti, like you're actually rolling and making your own spaghetti or spaghetti, maybe you own an Italian restaurant. The lifestyle around it and the fact that I, a community is a place where I can have many to many discussions with fellow people. So I think about it as a temple or a church. Like there needs to be some central gathering place where people could go. And then at the bottom of that, I think of it as like a product. There usually is some sort of product or service at the end of it. And, and that's where I see the life cycle of community based product. So you have audience at the top, you have community in the middle, and then you have a product that you can create. So Harley Davidson using that example, like the bike itself is the product, like they sell the bikes, but the community is those people. For example, the people I was on the plane with. And the audience might just be people who, for example, a cousin of mine who like I the other day was like, hey, I see a motorcycle that's cool, but isn't really a part of that community.

I like how you broke that down as a funnel. Starts with an audience who are passively following, maybe somewhat engaging. Then they come together and with or without the brand, they're interacting with each other and then eventually they buy the product. That is fantastic definition. You advise a lot of companies, you build a lot of communities. For those starting from scratch, what are some concrete steps they could go about implementing? Building a community. It's all the rage these days, right? Everyone's saying the boardroom conversation is, hey, third party data is going away next year. You got to own your relationships, you should have been building a community. VCs the flavor of the year kind of thing. And community led growth is finally getting Its day in the sun or in the light. So what advice do you have for people that are just starting out? What are some steps?

I think if I was trying to build a community, the first place I would start would actually be to build an audience. So I would build, let's just say Harley Davidson, right? I would build a meme page with just Harley Davidson memes and stuff like that that are really relevant to that community. Try to get 1,000, 5,000, 25,000, 50,000, probably TikTok followers to start. Because I feel like TikTok and Twitter are probably the easiest places to gain a following today. So build that audience first. Once I have that audience, then it becomes way easier for me to build a closed community of some of those hardcore fans. So I would go and then say, hey, like, why don't you come to my discord? Or hey, maybe I'll build like a custom experience on my website that brings these people together once a week or twice a week or every single day. So I would actually go and start posting on my TikTok, start posting on my Instagram and being like, hey, like I have a thousand spots for people in this community. That's how I would start. Can you start with the community? Yeah, absolutely. You can start with the community. I just. It's a bit more easy to start because the social platform start with the audience. Because the social platforms, obviously, they're designed for things to go viral.

What's funny is for traction, we started with email. We weren't so active on social and we had a small curated bunch of people that we sent an email to saying, hey, we're hosting pizza nights. We're failed founders ourselves. So we're going to do this off the record conversations and every pizza night. We do it with great cadence and more and more people would show up and eventually the corking space kicked us out. Dude, you can't have 200 people here. And that evolved into a conference. But when I think about that funnel model that you so beautifully conveyed is like the audience is the people who just passively engage with the newsletter. Maybe that's the hundred some odd thousand people, but then a very select group of them come to the regular live webinars and come to the conference and pay and buy the ticket. And ultimately the conference right now is the product. But maybe in the future that could be another product, right?

Totally. And I think your model sounds very similar to how the Product Hunt story, which Product Hunt started really as a newsletter of people interested in products. And then Ryan Hoover and team Used to throw brunches in San Francisco for other product builders to go and just talk about product. And then they needed a home, they needed their own church or whatever. So they ended up building what is now known as product hunt the experience. So the beautiful thing about community based products is it's a very organic way to build product. You don't really need to have. Like, this is how I think I'm going to build a billion dollar company. Because you're going to be hearing not whispers from your community, but screams from your community that this is what they like, this is what they don't like. So I also think another cool part about community based products is it's the least risky way to build product.

You get to make a bunch of friends and relationships and they tell you what to build and then they try it out. And because they told you what to build and they tried it out, they're invested in helping you become successful. And I found that myself. Right. With traction helping boast Bootstrap. And we were a product built for founders, helping them get government funding. Now, as you're looking at these communities, right, and you said treat your community like a product as well, what are some metrics to track or companies should stay on top of or community leaders should stay on top of?

Yeah, I think for community to work, you're going to see two metrics go up and it's going to be retention and engagement. Retention because people are coming back more to the temple or the church, right? Because there, there's now daily habits or rituals that they want to be a part of. Like for example, those product hunt brunches or the daily product hunt just showing up on the website, your attention goes up and then your engagement also goes up. Because not only are you there at the brunch or not only are you there on product hunt.com but you might also see a product you like. You might want to upvote it, you might want to comment on it, you might want to send it to a friend. I'm also just a big believer in pick one or two metrics. Don't pick like 100 metrics. Just focus on retention and engagement. Because if you nail retention when people love coming back, then your life just became a lot easier.

Definitely. And a lot of people focus on growth. But growth without engagement and retention is like empty calories. It feels good, but it does nothing for you. In many ways, engagement is that leading indicator for retention. Because if people are not engaged day in, day out or on the cadence that you set, likely they're not going to stick around as well. What are some great examples, some other great examples of community based engagement? You've seen where people get this first try at a community and they're like, wow, I'm going to come back. And then they're engaged and then they bring their friends.

I think the most like one that comes to mind just now is what happened with Clubhouse in the early days, the first two or three months. I don't know if you were on it in the first two or three months, but it was like the start of the pandemic. We're all quarantining at that time. And they made it very difficult basically for people to get in. But once you got in, it felt like freedom. There's a quote that we use at late checkout a lot. It's actually a Studio 54 quote that says Studio 54 is a dictatorship at the door, but a democracy on the dance floor.

And I love it.

That's how we generally like to design our communities. And I say this not to be like, oh, we're creating like scarce, not inclusive environments. There's a difference between exclusive and exclusionary. And we focus on, we think that exclusivity is an incredible leverage when creating community based products. So we all, we often try to create exclusive products but bring in a diverse group of people. And I think what was cool about Clubhouse when it first launched was it did have that feeling of exclusivity. And then once you got in, the product was so well tuned, like they had been building it for like a year and a half before or whatever and just fine tuning the product. It just so happened that the timing played really well and they figured out how to. They understood the human psychology around exclusivity.

When I first joined Clubhouse, I didn't want to join another social tool. I'm like deleting my app so I can spend more time with Emily. But when I joined it, they had a phenomenal onboarding experience. As soon as I joined, I was clubbed in a room with a bunch of people. Someone was in Dubai, someone was in Philadelphia, someone was in Canada. All friends of mine who didn't know each other. And my first thing was like, hey, do you guys even know each other? And then we got into a conversation and much later that I realized that they didn't know each other. Clubhouse just pulled them together to welcome me. So that was a wow experience. What do you think happened there though? Like, why did it all go down?

I think when you're building social products Especially horizontal social products like Clubhouse raised a lot of money. $4 billion valuation. I think if I remember correctly, basically consumer habits change. Like we went from being quarantined to not being quarantined. We went from having no audio room products to Twitter and others having audio room products. And I think habits changed. And I actually saw that they've announced they're changing where they're going right now. And they're, I think they're, I forget what they're calling it, but they're pivoting now into this new space and I think that's what you need to do. When you're building consumer social technologies, you always have to be a few steps ahead around where you think people's heads are at and where they're gonna go. Like, what's the social zeitgeist right now? And as an example, like one of the social apps that's really taking off over the last few months has been bereal. I don't know if you've used that product yet, but just, I think it just got a $650 million valuation. And it's this app where every single day, you don't know which time, but every single day you get this notification that's bereal time. And you take a picture, it's a front facing picture and a rear facing P and it's just, it's not like a, a curated selfie or anything like that. It's just like what you yourself and what you're looking at really quickly and then you can just see all your friends in a feed in that way. And I think that really speaks to the zeitgeist of people don't want curated Instagram type moments now. They want more casual, like in the moment type pictures, especially Gen Z. So going back to Clubhouse. Yeah, like I don't think they kept up to date and I think they probably are a few months ago realized that and are now pivoting. And let's see where they go from here.

A lot of people try to build communities. What are some lessons you've seen from communities that fail? They start with a bang and then they fall apart.

I think keeping a close eye on what the lifestyle actually I would say what the milestone is like. When people come into a consumer experience, they have some sort of mission or some sort of milestone that they want to achieve. And I think as founders sometimes we lose sight of that because we log into Google Analytics and then we start just seeing numbers and there's people behind those numbers. Like they're legitimate Real people. And so it's just don't get numb to that is a big mistake. And always think about what are the different milestones that people are trying to hit. Because the best community based products all have milestones. I want to lose 10 pounds. I want to ride a motorcycle every day with one new friend a week or a day or whatever. There's always some sort of goal that people have. Yeah. Don't lose sight of the goal.

Yeah. People want outcomes and if you enable them to do that and become successful, then they will be engaged for the long haul. Right. Like in the early days, HubSpot, before they even had a product, they had this product. Then they built the community of practice around digital marketing. I was an engineer working in product at a startup. I needed to go online and learn everything about digital marketing. We had no marketer. Everything I learned about SEO and digital and everything was from HubSpot's inbound marketing. And then one day they came out and said, hey, we have a product if you want to streamline all of that. And so then I became a HubSpot user. Let's switch gears to Web3. Your agency and they check out is big on Web3 as well. What do you see as the intersection of Community and Web3?

Yeah. So when Web3 started getting popular a few years ago, it wasn't even called the web three crypto and NFTs and this whole new world, we saw it as just a way to potentially supercharge some communities. The thing with we just talked about outcomes and missions and milestones. The thing, what Web3 does really well is it adds an incentive layer on top of some of these community based products to get people to do certain things. We see it as an incredible rewarding mechanism and rewarding layer for the Internet. That being said, do I think every community based product or every product needs to be Web3? Absolutely not. We're not like die hard in that sense. But I do think that when you're starting to think about incentives for the product that you're going to create for your particular niche, it's worthwhile to consider, hey, what is my incentive layer? That's my first question. And my second question is, does that incentive layer include a crypto element and why or why not? So I think that number is probably small today for most products maybe that's 1%, 5%, 10%. I always think about these things like the arrow of progress. Where's the arrow of progress going? I think it's moving towards Web3. So I think in five years, that number might be 20% or 30% or 40%. So that's why we're excited about Web3.

I've read a lot that people are saying, especially Web3 enthusiasts, DAOs are the future of community.

What do you think?

What's your view here?

Yeah, to me or what is a dao? A dao is basically just a group chat with a bank account. Cooper Turley once said that and I completely agree with him. And what is the team? A team is a community in a lot of ways. So for example, like I work at late checkout. There's a bunch of people, we have these. We have an outcome that we want to achieve. We have a lifestyle, we say certain things. We've got custom Slack emojis, there's history there, there's short term goals, there's long term goals. Like it has all the recipe of a community. So it makes sense that a dao, a decentralized autonomous organization, would work well. Do I think daos are like the future of community? I think that's just like a big narrative. Do I think that having crypto incentives and smart contracts associated with some companies makes those companies extremely strong and fast moving and interesting? 100%. I think you're going to. Again, it goes back to what we were talking about with Web3, which is now what.00001% of all companies today are daos. Maybe even less, probably less. Do I think that number is going to 10x or 100x over this year? Like probably. Is it going to continue to do it? Yeah, probably. And do I think that number is going to be 1% or 5 or 10% in 10 years? Like probably so I'm excited about the experiment of daos. I think that it's interesting. I love the idea of having also daos that have part time employees that are bounty based. So the way a lot of daos works is like, hey, if you design this app logo, I'll give you a hundred late checkout coins. And those late checkout coins could be redeemed for USDC or Ethereum or something like that. So I love the idea of like you log into this dashboard and you have these, you wake up, you're like, here's some tasks I can do for a team that I'm passionate about and it doesn't make a difference if you're in Dubai or Denver, like you could get paid.

Yeah. And like from a traditional community standpoint, a member's view is probably like you're Harley Davidson fan or a red Bull fan or a community member, you're earning points and rewards and all of these things, but they're not tangible money. They're things. Right. What are some other differences from a member point of view? This is like real tangible money. I'm earning like crypto that I can exchange later versus maybe I'm earning points towards merch.

Okay, so why some daos have failed is because you're a part of this dao and you earn a particular coin, and that coin either is extremely volatile or has no liquidity. So even if you're a member of that, let's say you spent all this time designing this app icon or building this website, or building this app. Like you get. Maybe you thought you were getting $10,000, but it turns out you're getting potentially nothing. And I think we've learned a lot of that over the last 12 months because of moving from a bull market to a bear market. So I think members need to be careful of the type of currency that they're getting. They should know that how they could spend it. Yeah. To your point, like a popular way is things like merch or other products, but I think the future of a lot of these daos are going to have way more liquidity. Not to get like super into the crypto stuff, but things that are traded on things like Uniswap that are automated market makers, which allow you to just switch whatever coin you have instantaneously into something more stable, like USDC or Ethereum.

What are some web3 communities that you're excited about right now and why are you excited about them?

The classic example of this is Friends with Benefits fwb. This is a great. It's a community I've been a part of since November 2021, I think, or actually before that, maybe before that, summer 2021, I think. And it's just a group of interesting people building interesting things. They just did a. I wasn't able to make it, but last weekend they did. I think it was called Camp Idlewood, which basically they brought together all the different members or many different members from the community and had this camp experience where there's music and art and all really DJs and stuff like that. The Idlewood, California community, I think, called it Crypto Woodstock, which I thought was hilarious. I love that. I love that community because it started online and they're bringing it in person. As much as we love to spend time on screens and stuff like that, and we love the Internet, there's nothing like being face to face with members of your community.

I've also found from my research and talking to a lot of people that anytime you incorporate more than two senses, you start to build stronger connections. Right. We're sight and sound right now, but if we're in the woods together and we're jamming on a bunch of stuff, then we're going to probably stay longer, eat together, drink together, taste, touch, smell in addition to sound outside, and then you start to build stronger bonds. And that's very relevant to building communities. Like you said, right. The online stuff only goes so far. The in person adds an additional layer of authenticity and bonding.

Totally. And there's no replacing breaking bread as well. Like I think there's nothing. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's your point. It's about the food and the smell of it and just like eating with someone, like if I'm comparing even like drinking coffee with someone or eating food is going to be like tremendously better. You're going to remember that more.

Now from your View, what will Web3 not change about community building? Sometimes it begs the question that is web3 and DAO and all this sort of a solution looking for a problem when it comes to community. Because at the center of community is just person to person connection and doing that on a cadence around a certain ritual or an activity. Right? Is that even needed? Is it. Are we just. Is everyone jumping on the Web3 bandwagon just as a solution looking for a problem?

When I look at products like Roblox or Fortnite or Minecraft, you have literally hundreds of millions of people logging in daily to almost a Web3 experience. Like the ecosystem around Roblox is fascinating, for example, where people are creating virtual assets, buying and selling them. It's not on Ethereum and it's not. You can't take your Roblox hat and bring it to Fortnite. I still would consider that Web2.5 experiences. Now whether these platforms end up being Web 2.75 or Web 2.8 or eventually Web 3, we'll see. That's what my hunch is, that it's the arrow of progress is heading towards that direction. But I think like this is happening, this is happening. When you think about like games 30 years ago versus games today, like it's progressively just like moving towards this direction. And that being said, I think they'll talking about gaming. I don't think all games will need to have virtual items and digital assets and crypto payments. You'll still be able to play games and enjoy them. But there will be some games that will have more of this Metaverse Web3 experience.

And especially with larger communities of play, let's call it where people are already creating digital assets. It adds a huge incentive layer right. Beyond just like your merch. And I think to your point, you can't go and exchange your Roblox hat at Miami crap, but you can with a crypto asset.

Yeah. And I think when you think of the real world, if you go into a store and you buy a New York Yankees hat and you love it, it would be weird if you left the store and then all of a sudden your hat disappeared. That's the reality of the Internet we live in today. And we just accept that because we're like, oh, that's how the Internet works. But I think we're going to look back at this time and be like, that was weird that we weren't able to transport some of our digital assets. Two different environments.

I completely agree. Now, as you talk to more and more communities, what are your top tip for scaling community? Like maybe three or five.

The thing with community is there's something called Eternal September, which I'm going to be butchering this because. But basically, like in the 80s, there was these bulletin boards at some university, and every September the bulletin board would get lame, basically. And there was a study on why, like, people would get so upset in September and they realized, oh, of course there's new undergrads who come in and they ruin the vibe for the bulletin board. And there's the quote, marketers ruin everything. What are marketers trying to do? They're just trying to increase that number as much as possible and grow that group of people as big as possible. And that's what gets a lot of them excited. But I think it's really important to scale sustainably and responsibly when you're building communities. Because you don't want the internal September issue where you get a bunch of new people and it completely ruins the experience. When you look at companies like Reddit has grown for many years, sustain, you know, sustainably. Or companies like Facebook groups, like, when you look at the. Or products like Facebook groups, Discord. A lot of these products have grown sustainably for many years. And why have they grown sustainably for many years? It's because they have been pretty. They've given tools for people to create and scale, but scale responsibly, because they know that if they created tools that all of a sudden you could invite a million people into a discord really quickly and spam your note, your SMS that those communities would die very quickly. So my biggest tip would be just scale responsibly. And the only way to do that is just focus on, focus on the outcomes, focus on the milestones, deepen those connections, be present. I think it's really important to have community health that's high because one or two bad people could poison a community and ruin it for everyone. Those are some things I think about.

And to that point clubhouse could be an example of that happening as well. Right. When it got open to the masses, everyone got invited and I was inundated with every chat row with spammers and coaches and get rich quick schemes. And it like a few weeks of that just turned me off and then I deleted the app. And so maybe that could be an example there with Clubhouse. And yeah, grow responsibility responsibly. Everything doesn't have to explode into millions. Right. You gotta do things that don't scale, maintain the love with community. I think that's really important when the world goes buffet. You gotta keep a Michelin star experience to keep the love alive.

Totally. Harley Davidson doesn't have that many customers in the grand scheme of things. So you can build a big business just by focusing on thousands, not millions.

A hundred percent. What are your favorite tools for managing community?

I wish there were more tools. I think we're early and I think there's an opportunity for some entrepreneurs listening to actually go and build community infrastructure tools. So go and do that because there's probably a lot of products to be built but there are some tools like I think Comsores, a really interesting one. On the management side, there's a company I invested in called Homeroom Club which is really interesting in terms of having someone manage your community as a service and there's some insights there. But yeah man, go look. I still think that there's a lot of, there's a probably a hundred times more products for social, social and ads and stuff like that than community.

Unfortunately 100%. All the tools that are being used in community were designed for marketing and demand gen. They weren't designed to retain and engage your community and grow the love. Right. So you're still using the same old email tool, you're still using the same old event marketing tools, right? The event management event marketing tool. And then comsor is newish but really like you're using the same tools which were built for marketing. And like you said, sometimes marketing ruins everything.

Right.

I had Jeff Lawson on the show not a long time ago and he said when you a b test everything to the nth degree. Every site becomes a porn site. You lose some of the love and so it's important to focus on longer term things instead of short term gain. This has been awesome. Greg, thanks for joining us. I learned a ton and it's gotta go on our YouTube and podcast and we'll use some of the excerpts for the community led growth book. Thank you so much.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

This episode is brought to you by Boast AI. Each year the US And Canadian governments give out billions of dollars in R and D tax credits and innovation incentives to fund businesses like yours. But the application process is cumbersome, prone to frustrating audits, and receiving the money can take up to 16 months. Boast AI gets you access to research and development tax credits and innovation funding opportunities without the headache and red tape. Join thousands of North American Companies leveraging boast AI software to maximize cashback. Check out www.boast AI.

I need some traction. You need some traction. Let's get some traction.

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