Kelly Hoey - Author and Speaker, Build Your Dream Network

Can you as a career professional make the leap to entrepreneurship? The answer may surprise you. Chances are you're already executing like an entrepreneur. Today's guest is going to walk us through her journey of starting a career as a lawyer in New York City to today being recognized as one of the most influential Women in Tech. 3, 2, 1. Today on Founders journey, we've got an amazing woman, an entrepreneur, a author and all around great human being, Kelly Hui. She's the author of build you'd dream, forging powerful relationships in a hyper connected world. She's been lauded by Forbes as one of five women changing the world of VC and entrepreneurship. Hold on, there's a lot more accolades coming here. Fast Company, one of 25 smartest women on Twitter. Business Insiders, one of 100 most influential tech women on Twitter. And Inc's one of 10 most well connected people in New York City startup scene. She's also EBW's 2020 included on the list of 100 Most Influential Global leaders empowering women worldwide. Not only is she a woman of distinction, but like I said, she's an all around amazing human being and my friend. Please welcome Kelly Hui to our show.

Hey Ray, don't forget, I'm Canadian too. Not just that New Yorker stuff.

A proud Canadian fighting the good fight in New York. Helping entrepreneurs, helping women, building venture capital, building a better world for everybody. What else are you not doing?

Oh gee, how long do we have to talk about what I, you know, and no time for looking back and saying what you're not doing. You can only focus on the staircase ahead of you and the adventure around the corner.

Thanks to you, I was invited to this new burgeoning conference in Aruba. I forgot what it was called.

Is it Tech atec?

Atec, still going strong and really opened my eyes to a lot of the activity that's happening in entrepreneurship in South America and just some of the great people around the world. That was one of the catalysts that helped me start getting around the world and talking to different startup ecosystems. I was always very insular and focused on Vancouver in particular and then focusing on the west coast. But that, I gotta thank you, was one of the opportunities that really got me going and wanting to go around the world and connect with startup leaders and tech leaders, investors in smaller markets and undiscovered markets.

Well, you just realize how much we have in common when you do that and some of the challenges that are the same. But also, I don't know, kind of gives you an encouragement for what you're doing at home. And I'm also thinking about it because I think we really connected because, yeah, the Canadian consulate got me to Vancouver and we sat next to each other at a dinner. And then the Canadian Digital Media Network got me back to Canada, going to various startup communities and sort of, as a Canadian, I'm thinking, oh, man, it's the only reason I've gotten to places like, let me see, Edmonton, got back to Winnipeg. Let me think.

Let me think.

I did. Maybe I got to Sault Ste. Marie. Yeah, I got up to the Sault. I got to St. John's Newfoundland.

I mean, yeah, I remember falling following your Instagram stories while you're out there.

But there's a lot of things that people have in common and sort of having those sort of shared experiences, but at the same time discovering what they're doing differently and why they're doing things differently so that you can sort of synthesize and figure out what you should be doing in your own community.

Yeah. And I definitely want to talk about a lot of the entrepreneurs in your network and the people that you've helped. But first off, I want to talk about you and your entrepreneurial journey. It's been an interesting one. You've got this amazing book. It's the best seller. I've seen you doing a lot of talks and workshops. But what got you here, what is the journey that is Kelly Huey, who.

Knew that studying law at the University of British Columbia, you know, and being in a very lockstep, you know, kind of linear career path. You know, graduate from high school, you know, get a degree, get another degree, get a job. I never imagined that I would be where I am now, but sometimes life throws you those opportunities. And the biggest opportunity for me to see a bigger version of my career and bigger opportunities for me came from being involved with a global business network for women. So I think about people who might be watching this and thinking, oh, gee, I want to get, you know, I'm looking for something new or like, to try something entrepreneurial. You know, think about the role you're in and how you can. You can think and act entrepreneurially in your company. Like, I really did kind of probably sort of surprise to people, kind of like develop some entrepreneurial skills and approach. Because of my years as a lawyer, you know, in terms of the client relationship, in terms of the marketing. And then when I was working in management for a global law firm, I was often given really big, tough program projects with no resources, no staff. Like, here's the idea. Make it Happen. Okay, how am I going to do this? Right? And as an entrepreneur, you need to be resourceful. You know, you don't. You have big ideas, but you don't have everything to make it happen. How do you make it happen? But.

Or the vice of that is as a business leader, you have been forced to be entrepreneurial. Yeah. You never journeyed out to be an entrepreneur. And this is a lot of our audiences is from Asian communities. And I know from an Asian background, there's a lot of pressure and expectations of, no, you gotta be a lawyer, you gotta be a doctor, you gotta be an accountant, and you have to work this linear career. But as we both know, a lot of the best professional entrepreneurs that we know. Sorry, entrepreneurs that we don't have, started off as a professional journey and realize that they don't want to sit in this box anymore and they want to venture out. Right.

Well, and also too, within those professions, you often have to be entrepreneurial. Like if you want to make partner, you know, in a professional services firm, you have to build a book of business that's being entrepreneurial, like head down. Doing the good work is not going to get you very far. You know, in any corporation, in any organization anymore, you have to think entrepreneurially. You think about the charity Red and they operate entrepreneurially. You know, it's probably why they have been so massively successful. And you think, oh, Red, right, The iPhone that you could get and then part of the proceeds went to that, you know, charity. Well, yeah, even, even not for profits, have to think entrepreneurially and have to think about operating differently. But for people thinking, oh, where can I get a chance to maybe see if there's something bigger for my career, for my possibilities? For me, like I said, it was being involved in the global business group for women, but it's because I rolled up my sleeves and got involved. I didn't just become a member and show up and listen to some talks and hope someone picked me and thought maybe I had potential. I really got involved. And that opportunity and someone seeing something else in me, really, for me, Ray cracked open the opportunity to, you know, think about something other than continuing on a management track career.

And what was there? What was the inspiration within that group? Was there somebody that mentored you or did you see other people performing? And it's like, hey, I can do that. Why shouldn't I be the one doing that? Or what was the catalyst that got you the story?

What? The story?

Yes.

So. So as I said, I was in this management role I was like, when I was in management and I was in a management role, I was given a really big responsibility to build out a global alumni program for a law firm. And I was given no staff and no resources. Swear to God, like, it was like, here, Kelly, it's the most important thing. No staff, no resources and failure. And saying I can't do this were not an option. So I needed to look around and say, right, where has someone built, you know, a successful, vibrant alumni type community based on the enthusiasm of the membership who has done it with limited resources? Because that's the model I need. Because I can't build a business model of an alumni program that relies on having a lot of staff or having a lot of resources. Can't build this based on having like a lot of staff, lot of resources. I didn't have budget to send schwag. I did not have like anything. So I had to see, right, what does the customer want? So I had to go and interview, you know, all my alums for this law firm and see what they wanted. And then I want to say, I was like looking for parallels and I fell upon this global business group for women. And well, I could have just said, oh, hey, founder of said global business network for women, tell me what you did to build this. Instead, I became a member. Like, I did my research, I like, observe the membership, right, Go to the meetings. I checked out their website and I didn't check it out once I used it as a member like I was. I threw myself wholeheartedly into this network as a full blown member, you know, got involved in organizing in the New York chapter, all these things so that I could really understand how this thing operated, to see what pieces of it I could use and replicate for this internal alumni program. And in the process of being so active, in the process of being, I want to so, so engaged and so contributing to this global business network. The founder, it was like sort of six, nine months in Janet, she called me and she said, who are you and what are you doing? And at the end, like, you're asking good questions and at the end of an hour long phone call, she offered me a job that had previously never existed. I don't think she planned to offer me a job at the beginning of the phone call, but by the end of the phone call, she created a job and asked me if I wanted it. And I sat there and I'm thinking, and when she offered me the role, it was like the compensation would be equity. No paycheck, nothing, just some equity And I sat there and I thought, what do I have to lose? What do I have to lose? I've got skill set and I've got a network. I can come back to the job or a similar job to the one I have now. What have I, you know, what I got to lose. So when I think about people listening to this story, you know, think about the things you're involved in. You know, are you just showing up in name only, or have you just, like, got a membership and like, oh, I'm a member. Like, oh, yeah, I mentored there once, you know, two years ago. But I still say I'm a mentor. Like, how do you show up? And if you're thinking about, oh, gee, I'd really like to do something like this, go and get involved. Go and show people what you're made of. Show about how responsible or innovative, creative you are. Show what a collaborative person you are. Because who knows, it might create an opportunity that didn't exist previously.

Yeah. Like these groups, similar to like we do at LaunchCam, they'll open up doors for you, they'll create a platform for you, but it's up to you to actually walk through that door and make something happen. You have to extend your hand out, shake people's hands, want to learn from them, want to engage with them, want to partner with them, collaborate with them. Sometimes it does require volunteering, other times there's opportunities to get into business adventures together. But it's on you. The onus is on you to make something happen out of it.

Right, right, right. And sometimes, you know, you'd find ways to get involved. You can find opportunities by watching, observing, and filling in the blank space. By watching and observing, you can create opportunities. So let me give two examples. An in real life and an online. In online, when I did an event for Creative Mornings during COVID one person took it upon themselves. I didn't ask, they just did it. Every time I was mentioning some resources and saying, oh, I'll get some links and circulate them later, this person went and found the links and was serving them up in the chat function to help other people.

All in real time.

All in real time. And I'm like, whoa, Right?

Like.

And so all of a sudden you're taking notice of this person and then you're following up. I was following up with the organizers after and like, could you please connect me with them? Like, I want to thank them and, you know, who knows who else notice that? Right. So some of this in terms of saying, what do I do? Don't just show up and say, hey, Ray, I really want to get involved. What can you give me to do? It's like watch and observe and see where the blank space is and then run to it, you know, or run to the task that no one else is doing because that may create opportunities. The other example I think of, and it was part of a case study in my book, and it was a real life event. And Jen Johnson, who had to build a new book of business in an industry and in a city that she hadn't lived in before, you know, she accepted the job on a Tuesday and started like the following Tuesday, you know, moved from Dallas to New York City and started a new, new line of business. Had to meet everybody. She went to the event where she figured all the clients she could possibly need were attending. And she was correct. Correct. And she arrived and the name tag table was a hideous mess. Like, it was just completely disorganized. And so she looked at the organizers and said, can I help you with that? And they were like, yeah. And they ran off, leaving her with the name tag table. And she organized these name tags in a way that she had to hand everybody who came in their name tag and introduce herself. And she left that meeting with 80 business leads.

Yeah. What a hack, right? You basically just hacked away to network with everybody before they even have a chance to network with anybody else. And your first impression, right?

Hey, I'm so and so great to meet you. Where are you at? Oh, wonderful. I'd love to follow up. Like, boom. She's like, how am I going to get some business leads for my line of business in the legal recruiting space? Oh, there's how you do it. So, you know, some of this is you sort of thinking, oh, gee, what? You know, don't wait for someone to hand you something. Like, look at the absence as an opportunity to show how, what you can do and then run towards that opportunity.

Yeah. Now adults stress, like, don't be afraid to take risks. Like, you might see, hey, what if I tried this? And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. No harm done. Like, you, you can learn from that mistake or that missed opportunity and use it to identify a new one. But the last, the worst thing you can do is not do anything.

Right, right, right. I mean, I sort of think the, you know, so the opportunities in life are going to come because other, like, people are going to help you. Your skills, your experience is going to take you. So far it comes down to people helping you. So the only Mistake you can make in life, in my humble opinion, is not, you know, building connections. Not being that you know, kind of collaborative, helpful, generous person within a network. The failure to, you know, like, no one goes it alone. I mean, we love the hero's journey. We love that solo entrepreneur, that myth. But no one goes it alone. And so don't assume that you can do it by yourself. Bring other people along on your journey, be part of their journey. And the only mistake you make is not building those networks and those relationships.

And speaking about networks, build you'd dream network is a best selling book. What led you to writing this book? What's that journey look like? I know a lot of people listening, see a lot of other entrepreneurs writing books and memoirs and whatnot. What sparked you to put this book together?

And over it was like I felt like signory Weaver and alien. All of a sudden I was pregnant with this idea of writing a book, and I could not shake it. Like, you have to want to write a book. I think Stephen King wrote a book called on Writing, and it's his. It's not a horror story. It's his career. It's his, like, resume. It's his biography. And I think even if you don't want to write a book, it's an amazing book to read because it really talks about his obsession with his craft and his obsession with doing this thing. And maybe that's why writing a book is kind of like entrepreneurship. You really have to be obsessed with doing it right. There's not fame or fortune to be found in writing a book, unless you're Stephen King and then think about how many books he's written. So I just was overwhelmed with this, like, burning desire. But part of that came from listening to my network and what were people always asking me. And finally there was. When was it? It was like 2000. Yeah, 2014. I had two other authors come to me, really pushing me to give them ideas on networking for their books on networking. And I sort of paused and thought, maybe I should write the book on networking if I'm the networker's networker. Like, if I'm their networking guru. Hey, Kelly, you're the guru. We want to know if I am the guru. Maybe the guru should write the book. So that's finally what. And once I had that idea that maybe I should write the book, like, these other people are coming to me for my insights for their project. Maybe I should claim my area of expertise. Once I kind of knobbed onto that one. Like I said, I was obsessed it was like I had to do it. It was like so obsessed I had to do it.

And obviously it's an amazing book. What have you really tried to nail home for the readers of the book? Obviously we want our listeners to buy the book and read it. But if you really start to dive into why is networking so important?

Ideas without a network don't scale or grow or launch. I mean, pure and simple, you know, you can have the best idea in the world. But if you don't have a network, if you don't have people who are going to, you know, who are going to get enthusiastic about it, or people who are going to mentor you on it, or people who are going to, you know, champion it, you know, it's going to be that great idea that gets built in garage and no one ever uses. So, you know, ideas get spread. I want to say, you know, team members are recruited, VCs are introduced to. Everything happens because of networks. And so the sooner that you realize that this is how things are done, not just in some beautifully crafted elevator pitch or a pitch deck, but in the relationships and that relationships open doors. Like, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can start looking after and nurturing the network that you have.

And what are some of the biggest missteps you see entrepreneurs taking? What are the fallacies or the negative approaches to networking? I know personally, a lot of times people, especially in tech, it's give and take. You have to be willing to give back and contribute. Where there's a lot of people that I've seen that just take, take, take and they don't give back. Well, you might get some initial results and connections, but that is very short lived because people quickly realize, okay, this person's just out for themselves. Right.

I think the biggest mistake, I mean, biggest mistake in networking is people only kind of show up for their network when they need something. But I particularly think in the startup community, the big mistake that founders make is not building the connections with their peers. And their peer network is critical in terms of people who are going through the same challenges around at about the same time you are or they just been through them or they were, you know, they've had, you know, they're resolving that thing, they resolve that thing that you're, you're struggling with, you know, last month, so they can give you a fast track answer this month or they can give you insights because they pitched that vc, you know, last year. They have the, you know, the kind of, they have your back and people treat their peers in the Startup community as such competitors, you know, kind of like nice to your face, but, you know, and I'm like, bad move, really bad move. I mean, particularly here in the US What I know from the venture capitalists who I really respect, where they look as their pipeline for future investment, yes, it's from their network, but they pull pay particular attention to getting inflow of deals from founders, not from, you know, LPs and investors like me, from founders. So these startups who aren't building relationships with other startup founders, it's a grave error in your success.

Yeah, I always like to say misery loves company. And so make sure you surround yourself with those people that are focused on, faced with the same challenges and problems that you are. And hands down, learning from somebody that just went through those problems a month ago, six months ago, even two years ago, is far better than trying to butter up and get close to somebody that started their startup journey 10, 20 years ago. Yes, that person may be super successful right now and they've got lots of accolades, but when they were at the stage that you were at, the world was so different and completely different.

Yeah, completely different. I mean, and what it's supposed to be like, sort of useful or charming or flattering to go and. No, no, go and talk if you want. If you're looking to answer that, go and talk to your peer.

So, yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people don't realize that we've had seasoned entrepreneurs that have been very successful, exited their companies, come to launch academy to start a new business, and you think, well, why is so and so that's so successful, want to join an incubator because they're starting from scratch. The world of how to build a business is so different now and they want to connect with those peers. They understand the fastest way for me to be successful is to talk to Joanna or Samantha who just went through these issues three months ago, and I can ask them and get closer to them and leverage them to build my business.

Exactly, exactly. You know, and then the diversity of the networks and the pipeline of where people are coming in from. Yeah, I mean, if you're seeing, if you're seeing an incubator and you're seeing some seasoned entrepreneurs in there, you know, that's sort of like run, run there fast as you can be part of that.

Exactly. And so having the book come out, going around, doing your book tour, talking at conferences, working with all these entrepreneurs around the world, what have you learned since the book has come out? Is there anything new? Anything that epiphany for you or common trends that you're seeing that you may not have expected or seen before?

Well, you know, the good news is people still kind of suck at networking, so I get to talk about the same thing. You know, you sort of like, hey, will your topic or your book become obsolete? And it's like, good news. No, you know, the one. The one thing I sort of think about is we all have a lot of the same pain points around connecting with people. And I say in my book, networking needs a rebrand. And, you know, maybe 2020 is giving that, you know, or has given that to us. And, you know, my biggest relief, Ray, in terms of all of this stuff is, you know, the message that I put out in 2017 still holds true today. Few. Because I haven't had that burning desire feeling to write another book yet. So I'm like, until I have that feeling, I'm not even thinking about another book. And so I'm kind of relie. I could still talk about the same thing. You know, it's sort of like a startup that creates, like a project. Like, they have. They have the best solution, and then the government changes the law, and then you're like, great, now my product's, you know, obsolete. You know, oh, look, we discovered cars. We don't need a buggy whip anymore. Thank goodness I still have an evergreen.

Yeah. Humans are lazy. Humans are timid. Actually, that's a great question.

We're squirrely and weird. That's what makes networking hard. It's not the first. Not whether we're introverted. It's not that we might be scared about this. Humans are weird. And what we may want today is not what we want tomorrow. And your job when you're networking is to connect with another person. And how do you do that when one day they want, you know, chocolate ice cream and the next day they tell you they only like vanilla? Like, what do you do?

Yeah, we're weird. And are people weird equally across the world?

Oh, yeah.

Do you find pockets or is there any nuances or any distinctions of networking in different parts of the world or.

There are. There's. There's definitely some. There's definitely differences. But I think you have to look at that on, I want to say on a very micro level, you know, like, you could say, oh, startup communities are. And you're like, hold on. But the startup community where. Or you could say, oh, Americans are like this. And I'm like, yeah, but there's a heck of a lot difference between how we talk to People in New York or how you would address someone in New York to, you know, get some advice from them versus the west coast versus the Midwest versus the South. Right. So it's very, I would say hyper contextual as opposed to sort of blanket generalizations. But, you know, that's the kind of thing, you know, fortunately in this day and age because of the Internet is you can become part of communities before you're there physically. So you can watch and see what's going on, what's the conversations they're having, what's happening, you know, what are the ways people are talking to each other, how are they being addressed? You know, like when, when I do presentations in this country and you know, depending on, you know, back when we could do them in person. Well, and online as well is, is, you know, which parts of the country can I drop the F bomb and which ones I can't, you know, where can I get away with my jeans ripped and my open toed shoes and where can't I do that?

Yeah. I also find that no matter where you're in the world, there definitely are cultural differences and there's different nuances, but just being genuine, being a good listener and being open to feedback, criticism, suggestions or whatnot goes a long, long way, especially if you don't know the language or if you're not really as familiar with the culture. A smile is that universal greeting, the one thing that connects humans around the world. We all like to laugh, we all want to see great prosperity for the people around us, the people that are close to us. And so being genuine and being transparent is key, right?

Being considerate, being kind. Exactly. You can sit there and have, you know, debate and conversation on whether or not you need a business card anymore. You know, things, you know, those, you know, back in the day when you used to shake hands or you know.

Like now it's a fist bump or I use the Vulcan.

I like that. I like. Yeah, that's what I. We're going with that from now on. But otherwise it's sort of like, right, if you're considerate, if you're kind, if you're like, okay, this is the way I communicate, but how do people communicate here? Like understanding the context of the networking room you're walking into, whether that is a different country, a different social platform, a different meetup, and just being self aware of how other people are engaging so that you have the possibility of connecting and being heard by them.

Yeah. Just highly encourage everybody to go out and buy this book, read this book, if You've read it, share it with somebody else, pass it along to somebody. The more people that are able to digest the knowledge that Kelly's put into this book, the better the world's gonna be. Kelly, I want to kind of wrap this up with two questions. There are standard questions. The first one is tell us about an app or a tool that has been valuable for you on your entrepreneurial journey, and it helps shape who you are today.

Email. I mean, it's just, like, funny, you still dig around and, I mean, people hate email, but that's probably the app I use more than. Well, maybe not. Maybe I use Twitter. No email more than Twitter, I think. But, you know, you can just see such a history and conversations with people sort of buried away there in email and how and where you've kind of grown and transformed. But also, who's been on that journey with you based on all of the conversations that get buried away in that app?

Yeah, I know with a lot of younger generations, they're looking at instant messaging and whatnot, but when it comes back down to business, email is probably the most dominant medium. And like, I know from our Traction Conference, like, we've done social campaigns, online campaigns, trying to sell tickets, trying to bring in speakers or whatnot. Hands down, the most effective tool for us has always been email for the last seven years. And we do probably 80% of our sales and negotiations and dialogues all through email. And I don't see that going away anytime soon. And then if you were to start a new business today or if you were mentoring a new entrepreneur, what's a piece of advice that you would give them about starting a business in today's world?

You know what? I'm going to give the advice that I got from a mentor who, when they asked me what I was up to, and it was after. Yeah, I think maybe my book had just come out, and people knew me for doing so many things, different things at the same time. And I looked at this mentor and I said, I'm just focused on my book. There is no plan B. And this mentor looked at me and said, good, you shouldn't have a plan B. Because if you've got a plan B, you're not putting 100% behind plan A. So I would say, any entrepreneur, you got to go all in. You got to go all in. And you got to go all in believing completely and wholeheartedly in your idea and that you were going to pursue it. Like, it's like the only thing. You're not going to pursue it. If somebody else. Oh, if this happens, I will pursue it. You've got to believe it. And you got to go in 100%.

I think that's the title of your second book. I'm all in. All in with Kelly. Huey.

Or no plan B.

No plan B. Kelly, this has been an awesome conversation. I really enjoy our talks. I want to give you the reins here and give you a chance to shoot your call to action. What is it that our audience, our viewers, our listeners can do for you?

Buy and read. Build you'd dream network there. It is simple. You've been hammering them over the head to read and buy my bucks. So I'm going to say the same thing. Read and buy my book.

Yeah, we're going to have links in a bio, we're going to have screenshots and whatnot. And we're definitely highly encouraging people to get that book. Follow Kelly on Twitter, on Instagram and all the other social channels. You're going to. You're definitely not going to regret it. There's so much wisdom coming out of this woman. And again, all around great human being. Love that smile. Proud Canadian in New York fighting the good fight. Kelly, thanks for joining us today. It's been an awesome conversation.

Thanks, Ray.

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