Startup Harmony: The Role of Friendship in Business Success with Cecelia Zhou, COO of ICTUS Audio

3, 2, 1.

We are back with another episode of Founder Journey. Today I have Cecilia Zhao.

Hi.

With us from. I keep calling it, calling it ictos, but it's Ictus Audio and there's a unique meaning behind that name. It's actual industry term. But. Cecilia, welcome. Thank you for joining us on Founder Journey. Please tell us about Ichtis Audio and the company and why you're so passionate about what you're doing.

Okay. Hello everyone. Hello viewers. We have a podcast of our own but like not many viewers, so we like to start off with hello, hello. And Ikta's Audio started off as a music post production company mostly. So iktas is actually a term in conducting. It's kind of like when you do that move and then the all music will start. So it's kind of like a emphasis.

So if anybody's ever been to a.

Opera concert podium, you have seen the.

Conductor with a little. Yes, the tar.

Have you watched TAR recently?

I personally haven't seen it, but yes.

Yes, but anyway, so we started off as a music production company. We mostly focus on composing sound design for all kinds of media, including short film, films, commercials, VR and xr, like spatial audio kind of stuff. Very edgy and techy. And then as we go on, there are students come to us. They'd be like, hey, can help me to get to Berkeley. Colle of music. Most of them are Chinese, I would say, because back then it wasn't really a choice for Chinese students to study contemporary music in the States. And then they really don't know how to start and what to learn. So they come to us and we start be like, okay, we'll give you like private one on one lessons to help you to audition, to audition for Berkeley and get in. And that's how the music education part of the company starts. So right now it's a combination between music post production and contemporary music education.

Okay. And obviously if anybody's watched a movie, music plays a big role in any type of experience, visual experience, a lot of. At times it's underappreciated. If you ever watch a movie without music, it's really boring. But when the music underscore comes in, it really adds a big impact. And so you were teaching people how to get into school into. Into Berkeley, and then now it's morphed into an actual studio that's helping people understand how to do that work themselves.

It's actually more, more to that because like the first step for us is trying to educate both students and parents. What is contemporary music education? Like, right, what is the current music industry? What are the job occupations out there? Right. As you just said, like scoring. It's like a whole topic on its own. But like a lot of Chinese students or like Asian kids study like piano or cello or violin since the age of five. But then why are they studying? Right. They never think, oh, what can I do with violin? Or what can I do with a piano? And then for us, the first step is always to tell them what you can do afterwards. What are the jobs in the music industry? And then we'd be like, what are the ones you're interested in? Right.

So correct me if I'm wrong again. Asian family, Asian parents. Music plays a significant role in the child's upbringing, but it usually is looked at as a form of discipline, a form of education. And rounding out, but as you mentioned, not really a career choice. And that's where you're coming in and showing, hey, those 10, 12 years of piano lessons can actually turn into more than just being a concert pianist. There's a whole other industry out there.

Yeah, the self discipline is absolutely like among one of the top reasons why parents their kids play a instrument. Right. But if you really think about it, there should be more to that. Right. You want your kids to be creative, being able to express themselves through music or enjoy music as a form of art. So that is what a lot of classical trained students are lacking, or at least from some students who came to us and be like, I want to study music, but they don't know what they actually want to study. That's kind of the taboo we were facing. And then once we have that down and there's like a whole structure, like it's kind of like a three step kind of approach. Right. The first approach is for the students to identify what is the area in music that they want to study. Right. That's kind of like, I would say career mentorship, almost like exposing, expose them to all those jobs and then how to get there. And what do those technicians or engineer kind of jobs in the music industry do? That's the first step. And then the second step is to help them to develop a transition from classical music to contemporary music. A lot of times. So there are terms that's different, there are harmony that's different. How to build a solid contemporary music core foundation, to compose, to create. That's kind of the second step. And then the third step is to help them prepare for Berkeley College of Music if they actually decide to pursue music as their career, if they want to make a Living from music. That's the approach we're using right now.

And again, most people default when you hear career music is as a performer.

Yes. They think you're a performer. They don't know, like, say we're filming this podcast right now. Right. And then there need to be someone who's gonna adjust the eq, who's gonna balance out, like, cancel all the noise and then edit it and then publish it on, say, Apple podcasts or, like, Spotify. Right. That is a job. And then when you're at a recording studio, there are, like, recording engineers. There are so many mics, right. Which mic is best for recording? Piano? Which one is better for mixing? So there's all the. I wouldn't say it's kind of like science and also, like, terminology behind it that is a whole different major. And then, like, scoring, as you just said, like commercials, films. You cannot watch a silent movie or, like, play a game without any sound. Right. When you shoot a zombie, you are expecting a sound, some sort of sound. So, yeah, that is kind of the areas we're trying to make people more aware of. You can become one of those.

Sound engineers.

Engineers.

We're lucky here at Launch to have our own mad scientist, Samson Lee, as our music and podcast grew. He's also our community manager, rock star, and many different fronts, but he does a lot of the mixing and editing. And it's not just something that we threw at him. It's something that he's actually is passionate about. So it is a career, and there are people out there that really are passionate about the subject matter.

Yeah.

So there's the education side of the business, but there's also the music production side. What are the different categories that ICTAS is really involved in and what gets you really excited right now?

So I don't think I shared this before, or we, like, publicly announced it, but we were the. Do you know, Ken?

Yep.

So they actually launched a XR Unit. Right.

So for the audience, that's not Cannes. Cannes, France. Cannes Film Festival. Music festival. There's lots of stuff happening in Cannes, the award shows.

So they launched a XR Unit. Where you going? And put the Quest on. And then it's kind of.

The Quest is the VR headset. The VR headset by Meta. Facebook. Formerly Facebook. I think it's back to Facebook now.

Yeah, it is back to Facebook.

Yeah. So Facebook's VR headset called the Quest.

You put the Quest on, you enter a portal, and then that is actually down here at Vancouver by Chris Immersive, which is Our long term partner. So we were the audio director of that section of cons.

I'm pronouncing it wrong too.

So okay, forgive me, my French listeners. So yes, so we were the audio director of that platform called Alexandria where you can socialize with people and also watch 360 VR films. So that is kind of the specialty of our music production. We do a lot of spatial audio and VR music, game music, like non stereo.

So Iktis came in and did the whole audio component of that experience.

Yes. So when you actually someone calls her name Ray on the street, you can actually tell where she is coming from, how far she is and which direction it is. So we added this component in our composing step. So our music actually contain that information. Whereas when you just listen to music on Spotify, it's like binaural. Right. So that is kind of our specialty. And for Kong we did the music composition and a lot of the sound design. When you like enter a movie, like you will hear cue and we write it. So that is kind of our role in Kong.

So a lot more complicated than people would assume it is. Because it's not just straight.

Yes. It's not just music and composing. There's also actually like coding the spatial side.

Again, if you're standing in a VR environment that's replicating a street corner, like you said, if somebody's calling your name, you need it to come from a certain direction for that person's walking and a distance. And all these different layers need to be coded in. So that's what ICTIS does.

That is our specialty, I would say. And then on top of that we also do scoring for linear mediums like films, games, commercials, a lot of commercials. And also we have spatial albums that we hope to launch NFTs. And we also do a lot of research related to game in terms of blockchain. Web 3.0, those are kind of the technology and music combined fields.

So when you're talking about blockchain, is this a layer of rights management and understanding, a chain of title or is it the assets are on blockchain or is it more about like the NFTs and building experience?

It's actually more about the NFT. So we were thinking to publish our albums as NFTs, but then also also a lot of like research stuff. Right. How many customers are going to buy their music on asset nft. Right. Who's our market? That is the thing we try to do research on. And also with like especially nft, a lot of them are related with VR or xr. Right. So what are the big brands that are willing to create such experiences and how can we compose music for different sorts of media?

Yeah. So I think there's two sides to that. One is you could definitely be the music underscoring and NFT experience. But the other side is all the library of music and audio that you've created can be put on chain blockchain and you can manage the rights management like royalties and chain of title as people start using that library. A whole other world that we can talk about there.

Yes. It's like a standalone episode.

Yeah. But you said something about games being linear. Is a game experience that you're coding for.

Are they games? Not linear. That might be misspoken. So linear are things you don't interact with. Right. But like films, you just watch the film. But then nonlinear things are like games. When you trigger a collectible, there is a sound to it and then like as sound designers, you really don't know when the player is gonna collect that thing. So that is non linear. Anything you interact with is nonlinear. So that also have like Siggraph or like live installations. Those are all non linear.

Yeah. When you said collect a collectible, the first thing that popped in my head is Super Mario jumping up and hitting.

The question box as a demo for a lot of our students as well. It's see like good music in those long non linear media. They're stuck in your head.

Yeah. And you don't realize how complicated the world around music and audio is. But without it, those experience would be nothing.

Yeah. It's more technical than like musical for like those fields, I would say.

Hello fellow tech startup founders. I just want to quickly interrupt this episode to tell you about us at launch. If you're looking for a community to help you take your business to the next level, consider joining our Launchpad program. As a member, you'll get access to investor connections, programming workshops, mentorship and over $400,000 worth of perks. Also, don't forget to check out our other podcasts, Launch AMA and Bits and Bytes. For expert advice and stories from the tech community in Vancouver and around the world. Visit LaunchAcademy CA to learn more and start building your dream business today. That's LaunchAcademy CA.

Let me take a moment to shout out our longtime sponsor, Smythe. They are a leading independent VC based accounting firm specializing in providing financial services and consulting for tech companies across North America. Smythe has supported our program and our alumni throughout their early growth stages by helping them structure and set up their businesses all the way to helping more established businesses with cross border operations and M and A. They combine industry knowledge with a proactive collaborative approach, empowering you to make more informed decisions as your business grows. So if you're looking for a trusted partner to help you drive your business's success, reach out to one of our Launch Academy's longtime mentors, Camelia Ho. For more information about how Smyth can support your growth, you can find Chamele's information on Smyth's website at smythcpa.com that's s M-Y-H e cpa.com along with more information about the various industries they support and the services they provide. So before we get into the real layers of Ichthys, I want to go back to you as Cecilia. Your journey because you helped mold ictus into what it is today. But you didn't join from day one. You joined the company. Why don't I let you talk about it? Tell us your journey to where you are today with Ichtus.

I am surprisingly a chemical engineer major.

I studied another mad scientist.

Yes, I love baking because nothing will explode in your kitchen hopefully.

But you haven't seen me bake.

But yes. So I come from a hard science background. I studied a lot of hard sciences. I'm not the best singer at all. But then I always share this passion on education. So when I was in high school I co founded a non profit in China. So most of what I did back then was to help a lot of rural Chinese primary schools on their books and like libraries I would say. So I would fundraise money and books and other resources if needed and then transport them to those schools. And then I visit a lot of schools on a monthly basis I would say. And then after funding like 15 ish libraries in those like countryside, I started to realize there are more that's lacking that's other than books and infrastructure. It's more about some of the education component that's missing. So those schools are very small in size. It's like 15 people with only one teacher. And then those 15 kids would have different grades. So it's a complex teaching method. In Chinese it means that one teacher has to teach different grades and different subjects all at once. So that is kind of where my passion belongs. But in college I was like oh, I need to study a major that's easy to find a job. So engineering, here it goes. But then I also did a lot of like education education psychology courses and then those were really interesting. And then after graduating I moved to Canada. I started living with my best friends who back then has already started ichtas on their third year. So it's founded in 2018 here in British Columbia. Like in 2019 it started in Boston, but we weren't officially registered. And then in 2018, that's when it officially started. And then 2019 they had a visit back to China. We were catching up. And then that's when I started giving Sherry, who visited here before, advice on students mentorship.

So for the. Sherry is a co founder of.

Sherry is a co founder of ICTUS.

And happened to be one of your best friends?

Yes. Since 2009. Yes. So in 2019 she went back to China and she was like, hey Cecilia, there's this one kid I've been mentoring. And then what do you think I should say to her on this, this and that? I'm like. I was like, okay, if this is the case and from my experience, it might be about helpful if you do this, this and that. So that's kind of started. I would say like, what is the right term for it? It just like I've been giving a lot of suggestions for to Sherry and also like other students in general. And then how to deal with like Chinese parents, I would say, because like they are my. They are our clients to some degree. Right.

So kind of like coaching, mentoring advice.

I wouldn't say like mentoring because like it's more like peer advice, I would say. And then that's how we started. And then I moved to Vancouver in 2021 to finish up my master's because I do want to live in Canada in the long run. And then that's when I landed. And then once off I graduated, I was like, okay, what do I actually want to do? I want to be in a role that's like people facing. Right. I don't want to be stuck in a lab doing experiments that will probably lead to nowhere. And then I was starting to look at project manager roles and then once I got a job offer, she was like, if you are gonna work for anyone else, you should work for us. Because that would make the most sense because you are capable of doing anything. We need to expand on right now, like a lot of outreaching, marketing, management. And also I need to be biling. I need to speak both Chinese and English. And then I really need to have a strong work ethic and someone they can trust because it's a family business. It's just Sherry and her partner at the time, the other co founder. And that is how I officially joined. And then after five months of doing what we were doing, we really grew a lot in that even five months. And then that's when we were ready to bring up the business to the next phase. Right. We're determined to transform from a, I would say prestigious tutoring to fully equipped academy.

So I want to talk about. There's a lot of things to unpack there. One is working with friends and joining an existing business that needs to go through a transition, the relationships there. But let's focus on when this was proposed to you. Like, hey, come and join us. What went through your head? What are some of the qualifying criteria that you had to go through yourself mentally? I know they're your friends and you're familiar with the business, but what is it that went through your head? Say, okay, do I really want to become a partner in this business or do I want to go get a job somewhere else?

My, my biggest like question back at the time was like, what do you guys want me to do? Right? Because giving advice, even as a friend, like, you will always get it. Like whenever you come to me, be like, hey, Cecilia, I need help on this round. I'll be like, oh, here's what I think, right? That, that will always be available to both of them. But then to me back then, it's like, you guys are working a lot and then obviously I don't, I cannot teach music at all. I don't know any instruments well enough to be a teacher. And then I don't think I can do a lot of post production job that they do. I was like, what do you need me for? That's kind of the first question. And then she told me, basically they're kind of at capacity right now because it's just the two of them, right? Then you, as founders, you need to take care of not just teaching and business, but everything behind it, like accounting, right? And then you need to prepare all your contracts.

So at this time it's still just a prestigious school.

It's a prestigious, like it's a very high end music production and prestigious, like boutique style tutoring academy. But then it's just the two of them.

And was the vision to take it beyond that already there? Or is that something that came together as you joined the team?

Are you. Sorry, can you rephrase?

That was the vision to take it to where it is today as the academy. All these different layers, focusing on all these different industries and putting in that structure where you have multiple teachers or core curriculum. Was that already a plan with Sherry and yo or was that something that as you joined the team, the ability to build something bigger became reality.

So I would say when I joined, they do know that they need to transform or expand in some way. Because initially it's more like two freelancers that happen to work together. Do you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like one gig comes in. If it's your expertise, you do it. And if it's like I'm better at it, I'll take it kind of work dynamic, I would say. And then once I joined, we're like. Because they were working at a crazy hour, I think it was like 40, 50 hours a week minimum, right? There will be like 10 days with no day off. That's kind of the norm when you are like freelancing musician, right? You need to bite onto every opportunity that's available. But then they are being maxed out. You can't work like 80 hours a week. That's just not possible. And then you need a third person to take care of time management or project management for the whole team, like who's going to do what and then how to get work done more efficiently. And is there more systematic approach to some of the things we're doing. And then like bookkeeping, that's kind of the first thing I added to the company. Before that it was like year end or like monthly Excel sheets. Right now we have like a online bookkeeping system. And then when you have a receipt or a transaction, you do it on your phone asap. And then at the end of each month you will have like those reports for you and that's like ready. And it also takes care of like invoicing and stuff. So like it's one after one minor adjustments like that that shapes us to where we are right now. So like it's kind of, we figured.

It out on the long run as you went along. And then for you again, going back into Cecilia Labian proposed this opportunity, making the decision, deciding, okay, I do want to go ahead. This is something that probably some of our listeners have had like there, there's as you mentioned, like they were freelancers coming together, startup form. They know they want to build something they're doing together, but they're just doing whatever it takes to address what's coming in. And then there's this opportunity to build something bigger. And obviously with you on the team, that brings the capacity. But there's a lot of things that need to be fixed before you can do those things. And we were talking a little bit before the podcast about corporate Governance and restructuring and things like that. So maybe we can dive into what that experience was like for you. As you came on board, you started to take the reins on some of the operational sides and you realize, oh, I gotta fix some things here.

Yeah. So the first thing is I remember the first year I did the annual return, right. And then that's when I realized we do lack the basic structure of a corporate sometimes because you need a file cabinet, right. We don't have that. And then you should be able to memorize all your CRA logins and whatnot. But then it just auto saved on desktops. So that is not the most structured way to run a company. And then like the shareholder agreement was kind of messy. And then like even the, the financial front of the company, like we had money just sitting in the bank with like, no, not even on the high interest accounts. Right. So those are the things you really need to think or like no one will ever tell you that when you start a business, except for doing the business itself, you need to take care of your business, like do proper. I'm sorry to bring up bookkeeping again. That's like really like.

Well, I'm an accountant so I'm okay with it.

Yeah, it's really painful at some point because like.

Well, especially for founders that are not business oriented and not number centric. Yes.

Both of them are musicians and there's one joke between us. Like if you're a musician, you only need to count to four, like 1, 2, 3, 4. That's it. But then I double majored in math and also chemical engineering. So like I was like a lot of, of things are just counterintuitive to me. Right. There's no way we should be doing this that way. So like bookkeeping and then like I would say like there are like period of time when you just keep working, working and working, but there are also time when you need to stop and look what you are lacking so that you can build a stronger foundation so that the company will grow better in the long term. So that's like another thing. And then corporate cleanup, it's kind of like a lot of legal documents you are lacking. And then all the contracts you are signing with either like students or parents or like clients. Right. Those should be reviewed by a lawyer. Right. That is something I did in 2021. So yeah, a lot of those things were.

And as you started diving in, did you think to yourself, what did I get myself into? Or was it the opposite of okay, here, how do I address this challenge? Or how do I take on this challenge?

So, like, yeah, that brings back to like, what do you guys want me to do? That's kind of the first question I asked Sherry. Right. Because like, if you work for a company, you have like a supervisor or a manager. But like, I don't have one because essentially you're self employed. You need to treat it as your business. How do you want to grow it? If you want to diversify your revenue stream, you need to come up with new products. That's kind of the first task. What am I going to do? What should I do? There's no instructions or whatnot. So I need to figure out what can be improved and then what else can we do without overworking ourselves, essentially.

Okay. Yeah. Like I said, some of our audience members might have found themselves in the situation where they've been asked to join different companies or friends on a journey. And as you know firsthand, you got to be careful what you walk yourself into. But part of that is the journey with friends. And so let's talk about that. And I know a lot of people don't like to talk about the challenges. Co founders. So many people say you should never do business with friends. There's a lot, lots of horror stories out there around that. But it is possible you can do that. A lot of times in your scenario, it's friends that you were friends with before, but sometimes your co founders become your best friends moving forward. Talk us through that experience and what went through your head when you proposed to join your good, close friends on their journey.

Yeah. So I do want to say two prerequisites we had before becoming business partners. So like, one thing is that all three of us lived together for two years during COVID and then there weren't even a big fight at all. Right. We each have our like, specialties or like expertise. And then when you are lacking, you just ask for help. So like, I feel like overall it's the. We communicated really well and then there's no fights. When there's a disagreement, we talk it out. And then that is one thing. And the second is that Sherry and I were friends. Are friends for I would say almost 15 years now. So we're kind of like each other's siblings. We're both the single child. And then throughout the years, it's always long distance. Either she's in Boston, I'm in China, or she's in China, I'm in the States, or we're in the States, but, but, but in different cities. Right. But throughout the years we grow at the same rate, right. Every time we talk, there are people who drifted away once you were adults, but we did not. And then we share, fundamentally we share the same understandings of the role and family and friends and also like money. I think that's really important. And then for us is to openly talk about anything. Especially when I first joined, right? So we kind of sat down and had this talk. Do I really want to join? Like, is this the best option for me at that point, right. Or do we actually need a third person? Right? And then do they have a better option other than me? Those are like very openly discussed between the three of us, like repeatedly, right? So we sit on ideas and then we communicate with each other. So that is one thing I think everyone should do. And then another thing is that we have like different trials, right? There is like one month, three months, five months. And at each timestamp you look back on what you did in the past months and if there are, if there are things that can be improved, say it. And if you did something really well, also say it. So like, communication is the key. And I think we did really well on this front. And another thing that helped is that we were actually so, so busy. And then at like a hundred day or something, when we look back on the we accomplished in those 100 days, it kind of reassures all three of us that me joining on board is the right decision for them as business co founders at a point, and me as a partner and me as individual and of course Ichthys as a company overall.

And so obviously communication is very, very important between co founders, let alone friends that are co founders. Now what else are tactics that you used for conflict resolution? Because in a business there's always good days and there's always bad days. And some of those bad days lead to conflicts. What is it that you as a team do to kind of overcome those conflicts?

So I think there are like two scenarios, right? One thing would be, it is obviously someone's expertise. Say, if it's like a spatial audio related topic, we will listen to Yao almost 100% because most of the times it will be her work solely and she has a say in that period. So when those conflicts arrive, when those conflicts are more like personal preferences, whoever made the biggest contribution has the say. I think that's really fair, right? And then the other thing is the other kind of conflicts is more general or like business decisions. If it's like large decisions, we will actually sit down and make sure that everyone is on the same Page, no matter how long it takes, or you might need to explain 1.3 times to make the others on board. But we do it, Even if it's five times, 10 times, whatever we need to do it. And then the other things are not so important decisions, then the majority rule. If two people agree on the same thing, then we just proceed. And most of the times, looking back, if two persons think it's a good idea to do it this way, most of the time is. And then, yeah, I think that's how we resolve conflicts. So far, it's been like three years. I think two, three years. We don't fight, period. We don't really fight.

And are you guys working remotely?

For the most part, we live together.

So you still live together.

So during COVID we live together, we work together, we eat together, we hang out together, we drink together, we. We basically do everything together. And then that is when I joined. I know, like, things couldn't do. Couldn't go horribly wrong because I know them so well.

So if you're able to survive together.

Well, we can survive a kitchen together.

Yeah.

We can survive a business together.

Right.

That's kind of my mentality back then. And then. Yeah. Sorry, what was my question?

Well, the question was like, are you. How often are you communicating? And so I guess that kind of answers my question. Because you guys still live together. Yes, because that's one of the challenges, especially in today's world with the remote work. People are in different countries, different cities. So how often are you guys getting together to actually talk about conflict resolution?

Oh, they actually moved to Boston, so they are now both Berklee professors at Berklee College of Music in Boston.

Okay.

So during the fall and spring, they go to Boston to teach, and when it's summer or like winter break, they come back to Vancouver. And then when they're away, we kind of. So in a week, we have one day that's everybody's day off, Right. It's like mandatory day off. You cannot work on that day. And then on the others, on their 13 days that I know they're super busy in Boston with teaching. So I will like kind of arrange my meetings and then mostly meetings on those days. And then there are like two or three days that we know for sure. It's open for discussion. We just call each other all the time. And then one thing we did that really helped is that we have two different group chats almost. One is for like friends talk, and then the other is for like, business related talk. And then a lot of emails are used in business related subjects like CC each other in the loop. So that's how we communicate.

That's important to also have like you've got your different WeChat groups where, hey, this is just us as friends. No work conversations here, but we have another one that is specifically for work conversations.

Yes.

That's really insightful, Cecilia. I really appreciate the insights that you've given us to the world of audio and the world of your Invictus. I want to get your thoughts on a few things before we wrap up here. The first one is AI and the AI in music. There's been a lot of talk about it recently. What are your thoughts? Where do you see AI coming in? Are you going to offer courses on AI in music? Where does this go?

We encourage our students to use AI. So in our academy, of course. So we would be like especially. There are two separate topics. One is AI and music. Right. So we've actually tested AI to write lyrics or chose some movies based on those type of movies or preferences. They do an okay job. Even in lyric writing. How good the lyric is is highly dependent on what is your input, what's your guidance for AI, how you teach the AI to write lyrics. So if you ask us, do we think that AI will replace a lot of future music related jobs? Yes, they can even write poems, right? So on the creative front, it's not top notch, but it's mediocre or okay ish music. But then we always encourage our students, what we say a lot is that who replace you, those that will replace you, is not AI, but musicians or like persons who can use AI to increase their productivity. So that is our take on AI in general, but we use it a lot. I actually use AI back in last December when they first come out to help me write like rents and a lot. So it's very efficient. It boosts your productivity a lot.

Yeah, and I've heard that quite a few times now where the fear is not about, oh, is AI going to take my job? The fear is who is the other person that has learned how to use AI more efficiently in their role that is going to take my job. And the other side, again, there's a lot of generative AI that's building lyrics and whatnot. But where do you see AI coming in on the education side for your organization?

I think a couple things we're already using. The first thing is the closed caption function. Right. When you teach in Zoom, especially when your students, when English is not their native language, the closed Captioning really helped a lot. And then that is one thing we use. And then we always encourage students. When you are writing something, writing a story or lyrics or you have a idea overall, talk to AI it might spark you in some ways. So I think AI might change education in terms of efficiency, but the core of music, for us, like music education, at least all the time we've been saying this to our students. Music should be a tool for you to express yourself and how to get to that next level. Connectivity between you and your work is the core essence of our music education product. And that thing, I don't think AI can replace it. But then harmony. Will AI be able to teach students harmony one day? Maybe. But then will AI guide students to find their inner self, talk to talk to their inner self, and then, you know, Mentor them? I doubt it.

So you're not going to have robotic educators, but it's more tools in the.

Education process, Core music stuff, Yes. I think AI might be able to replace it one day because it's very. Anything that's very repetitive and mundane, AI will be better at it. But once it comes to creativity and mentorship, AI so the fundamentals can be.

Taught by AI, but when it comes.

To the artistry, it's just like playing pianos, right? When you get the techniques right, it doesn't make you a great artist. It comes with how you convey emotions in your playing. So that's kind of the difference between AI music teacher and us.

Okay, this has been really, really insightful. Cecilia, can you please give our audience some parting words? What are your advice and tips, tricks or strategies for the founders out there that want to build their own business?

I would say first thing is to communicate really well. If you are building a company with your friends or anyone else, do really have things written down and revised or checked by a lawyer. That's kind of the safe vault you always need to do. And the second thing is that you really need to lay a strong foundation, especially at times when you just started, you feel like, oh, I need to say yes to this, I need to do this and that, but really do focus on what good in the long term, right? Be really insightful on your decisions. Like decision making is the most important thing in terms of entrepreneurship. And then the third thing is that I would say really do profitability analysis and then really think about the numbers you are making, especially you are on the creativity or freelance route. You really need to know how much money you are making per hour for any kind of gigs you take and combine them wisely.

So that would be my back to accounting. Know your numbers, know your numbers.

It's serious, it's really important. You can't really hold on, hold off to like numbers at the year end. You need to revisit them at least every month, right?

At least.

Yeah, at least every month.

Cecilia, Very great insight. I appreciate you taking your time to join us today on Founder Journey and all the wisdom that you you part gave to our audience.

Hey there fellow tech startup founders. This episode of Founder Journey was brought to you by Launch Academy. If you're looking for a community that can help you take your business to the next level, look no further than our Launchpad program. As a Launchpad member, you'll have access to everything you need to succeed, including investor connections, year round programming, workshops, offline socials, mentorship, office hours, and over $400,000 worth of perks. Whether you're just starting out or looking to scale, we have the resources and support you need to achieve your goals. But that's not all. At Launch Academy, we also have two amazing podcasts that you can check out, Launch AMA and Bits and Bytes. At Launch ama, we bring in industry experts to answer your burning questions about entrepreneurship, fundraising, marketing and more. It's a great way way to stay on top of the latest trends and learn from those who have been there before. And on Bits and Bytes, we highlight the tech community of Vancouver, sharing stories of innovation and success from people who are driving the industry forward. It's a great way to stay informed about the local tech scene and connect with other like minded individuals. So why wait? Join Launchpad today and start building the business of your dreams. Visit LaunchAcademy CA to learn more about our programs and how we can help you achieve your goals. And don't forget to tune in to Launch AMA and Bits and Bytes. For even more great content, visit LaunchAcademy Cat.