002 Laurie Finkelstein Reader on Operationalizing People Over Profits

No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

For insights into starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team, we're talking with Lori Finkelstein Reader, a few fun facts before we get started. Her team has served more than 7,700 families in sunny South Florida, generating nearly 3 billion in sales volume over the years. They're currently number one in South Florida, number three in the state and top 40 in the nation. A business coach herself, she's been mentored by Gary Keller and earlier this year realigned her team with Keller Williams. Thank you so much for talking Team OS today, Lori.

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here. And that was quite the intro. I loved it. Thank you.

Good.

All those nice things you said. I give all those props honestly to the incredible company that we have and all the humans in it.

And I just your care to take a moment to share that I think is going to is representative of, I think with the some of the ground we'll cover in this conversation because you strike me as a very culture oriented, pro human oriented leader and I think that's going to be a theme throughout. But we're going to start Laurie, where we always do on this show, which is a must have characteristic of a high performing team. When you think back about your team building journey, what is, what are one or two must have characteristics?

I love your question because if people can really get in touch with those characteristics, it makes things a lot easier and a lot more fluid to build what you're trying to build. And you know, I come from a family, I was raised that you serve others right and that the more you help others get what they want, the faster you'll get what you want. So a characteristic, very clear characteristic, is one that says to you that not only did you enter real estate, you know, because you want to have a great career and make a living, but you are really here to build a relationship with the other person and that you genuinely care about their outcome. Right. A lot of times in sales, you know, you hope that you have a salesperson that genuinely is invested in your outcome. I don't know that that is always the case, but it is a very important characteristic to have.

Absolutely agree. And I think what I want to dwell in for a minute with you is this idea that it's really Easy to put up sales goals. We need to be goal oriented, we need to be production minded, we need to have an eye toward profitability. But all of that is enabled by our fulfillment of other people's needs and interests.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, Ethan, when I got into sales, like, I was born into a real estate family. Family. By the time I was 10, both of my parents were brokers. I always say my first open house was when I was 11 or 10 or 11 years old. But, you know, definitely understanding that when you enter the business, it's our job, it's, it's, it's hopefully that that is a passion that you have, that you have empathy, that you understand that people who are transacting in real estate, my experience has been 50% of the time it's a happy event, and 50% of the time, it's a very unhappy event. And being able to connect with human beings and meet them where they are at that time in their lives is critical to really become successful in our industry. I mean, I run a very relational business relationship. Business versus transactional.

Yeah. And so how do you operationalize that? It obviously makes sense when it's Laurie Finkelstein reader and it's you and you're delivering all of the surface and you're, you know, you're one person delivering the service. How do you, how do you scale that across 10 people and eventually 100 people? Is it a. Is it a matter of recruiting? Is it a matter of ongoing training and coaching? Is it a number of these things? Is it. Have you had to send people out of the team who aren't willing to operate in this manner? Like, how do you operationalize that?

So for starters, Ethan, I have not sold a house in nearly six years. So I came out of production and decided to work on the growth and development of the team about five to six years ago. And one of the ways to make sure that your culture's intact, to make sure that people are delivering the same level of service, Because I'm asked this all the time, how do you scale that? How do you duplicate it? You have to have standards, right? Very clear, defined, refined standards. And sometimes, you know, I've met agents that have come across my path and they're very high producers, but culturally we are not aligned. And not that they're bad people, they're great people, they're great agents, but we're not, we're just not aligned. And you have to be committed to that standard. The standard cannot have a wiggle, wobble. The standards like concrete, right? So you're either meeting the standard or you're not meeting the standard. And I think the toughest thing for leaders, I mean, I always say I'm a work in progress when it comes to becoming a great leader. It's really hard because especially in, in my space in real estate, like, we genuinely just love people. Like I love everybody. I mean, you and I met and I'm like, I really like this guy, you know, just super easy. But so I let the standard manage the culture and I let the standard manage expectations. In terms of any agent working with a buyer or a seller. Like you just, we just have a standard and either you meet it or you don't. You know, it's, it's, it's very black and white.

Yeah. How do you talk a little bit about that standard? Not like what it is or where it's set, but you know, are you sampling other people's engagement? Do you have like a layer of folks, like, like team leaders, like within the team kind of how, like just one step deeper on like the practical side of standards.

So it all falls back to training, right? I mean, I'm a huge believer that no matter where we are in our career, we all need coaching, training. We need to be held accountable. If we're not, we're not growing. And I'm also a big believer that the data, all the data within your company, whether you're a two person company, 200 person company, the data will give you a lot of information, you know, and having I run an 8:30 morning meeting, I'm about 15 years into this meeting, so 8:30 every single day without fail. It is now on zoom since we sailed through the COVID thing, but it is on zoom now. And that meeting is very heavily based off of training to help us and give us tools so that we can continually meet the standard. And honestly, I'm looking to beat the standard. Right. I want to keep getting better. We talk about a five star experience. Like five star. Everybody's giving five star. We need up our game. And it has to be a language that you speak within your company. It's behaviors, it's how we treat one another. It's. Do we have any tolerance for people who don't treat other people correctly? You know, I don't have that tolerance. You know, I had, I had an experience really quick just to tell you the level of standard. I had one of my coaches, they were, they were coaching me in a, in a, on an entrepreneurial side of our business and we were in a meeting and it was a leadership team. And I didn't appreciate the way the coach, who was a fantastic coach, spoke to one of my leaders. And it really rubbed me the wrong way. And I got to see who she really was potentially. And I had to part with them because I'm very married to how, how you make people feel. Do they feel included? Do they feel a part of it? Do they feel equal? Like that is a non negotiable for us. And let me tell you, people know how we're built and who we are, and we're not for everyone. And that's okay.

Yeah, really good. I mean, that language that you just closed on there, how you make people feel super resonant for me, for about four and a half years and over 270 episodes, I hosted a show about customer experience. And I would ask everyone to define customer experience off the top. And it really, you know, there are all these mechanical parts, you know, like in real estate, you know, there are all these kind of stages of the relationship, stages of the transaction we can organize around. And that is the experience at one level, but it's the mechanical level. Ultimately, what I learned by asking hundreds of business leaders from a variety of roles and positions that exact question was that customer experience boils down to exactly what you said, how you make people feel. It's that emotional resonance, that feeling that people leave each transaction with, with. And that's why I appreciate so much you isolating one particular example of a moment in which someone left your agent and you feeling less than you desired to be or deserve to be in the moment. And so high degree of sensitivity that I really appreciate go kind of high level. You can take this wherever you want. I mentioned some accolades off the top, hard earned. I'm sure you've talked a little bit about the culture of your team, but just characterize your team however you like, the market that you're in, the size, the structure. Just talk for a minute about your team at a high level.

I would love that. I want to just back up one little inch and respond to what you were saying about how we make people feel, how we make the consumer feel. So when you're running a business, a real estate team, in my case, and you've got a hundred plus people in your company, and we want to grow at 200-00, that real estate agent and your staff are just as much your customer as the consumer. And it's just as important to me that our staff and our agents feel the same, right? That they feel that they are respected, that their views and what they believe in and how they choose to live their life. That we respect them, we honor them, and they are no different. That is a passion of ours. And I mean, I feel like that just described my entire company, but high level of who we are. We are in the south Florida area, which encompasses all of Miami, Broward and Palm Beach, St. Lucie counties. We are about a company of around 90 to 100 people right now. We're going through some transition, which is really exciting. We'll get to tell everybody about that in about a month. But we're going through a little bit of a transition. We are what I consider that are a high producing team, a mix of agents that work their own business and they also work. Our team leads, everybody. A lot of people join us because they love the idea that we genuinely enjoy giving back. Right. We just celebrated our 10th year of our back. Our 10 year of our backpack drive, where we sponsor about 1000 to 1200 precious little adorable kids who maybe otherwise wouldn't have that opportunity to return to school with a backpack stuffed with everything you need. Right. Because to me, it's like building any child's confidence, putting a smile on their face, getting them ready to go and crush the year. So we are very passionate about giving back, taking care of others, not just our clients. I'm talking the community. And we do all kinds of. We do all kinds of different things that connect us to the community. We don't want to just be the real estate agent that gets to be in your transaction. We want to be the company that is a resource. Right. So that you need something, you're stuck. You know, that you can reach out to us and that we're here for you. We've been in business. I've been in business 25 years. So it's been. It's been a ride. It's been a long time. It just become. It just keeps getting more fun for me. So I would just tell you that I give all the props and credit to where we are and what we've accomplished because of the human beings inside of the company.

Yeah. That comes through very, very clearly. How. And I appreciate the commitment to these community events. Is that you said 10 years on that. Is it. How did that emerge? Like. And is this, like, whose responsibility is it to kind of coordinate this stuff? And I do, going back to your. Kind of, like, how we make people feel. Customer experience and employee experience, or in this case, you know, client experience and agent experience are two sides of the same coin. I like that you bring in the Community at large as an additional stakeholder in the business. And part of the way that you define success, when did that occur to you? And like, do you have someone who's part of their job is to coordinate these things or is it like, does it emerge naturally out of the team, like for folks that want to bring people together and do this kind of community engagement?

So, number one, I feel a responsibility and have for many, many years that sometimes we have to help others learn how to give. Right. Not everybody grew up in a family where they were taught how to give back, how to help others win. It's for some, it's something we have to teach. I'm very passionate about that. I've had the experience, experience that when you teach someone how to give and they become a part of that, then they go and teach somebody else how to give. And it is a very much of a pay it forward, pay it forward environment that you're creating. And I can tell you, we going all the way back to the beginning with backpacks, it was like, hey, how can we get a group of us, let's just all go out and buy 50 backpacks and stuff them and help some kids go back to school. There's not one human being that can own any of these types of. Of undertakings. So what has happened now that you're. We're doing this thousand backpack. This year, our goal was a thousand. We got to 1200. I was mind blown is that you do have someone who is heading it up, but then we have lots of people who opt in to be part of that panel. And then honestly, everybody is. Is kind of like scrapping to say who gets to deliver the backpacks, who gets to stuff them. When you're part of that culture, it's a natural, right? It's not a. We're not pulling teeth. Everybody is like, hey, like, where are we in the backpack drive? Okay, I'm going to five below and I'm going to buy five more backpacks. You know, we also do a toy drive and when we got to deliver the toys last holiday season to a foster home or it's a foster environment, like a whole ecosystem. The lady told us no one ever, ever in the life of their company had delivered that many toys from one per. From one group of people. So. And you know what's really cool, Ethan, is that there's so many people in our community that want to make a difference, but it's hard to do it on your own. So when you open it up to the community and let's say Mr. Smith, he's like, wow, I can go and buy four toys and drop them off, but I'm part of delivering a thousand toys. Right. So you get to connect to something so much bigger. You know, South Florida, we have a lot of hurricanes, unfortunately. And we have been known to put together some of the fastest, most amazing hurricane drives. We just know how to mobilize. Like, you know, that's just. We can sell houses.

Yes.

We're great at that. But we know how to help people. I always tell them I'm far more impressed by the number of toys we delivered, the number of backpacks we delivered, the number of people we could help than I am by how many houses we sold, to be, to be honest with you.

Yeah. And I think again it's, I see it as mutually reinforcing. Yeah. I think turns. It brings people to life and it makes us all want to do more. Not just do, just do more, period. Including on the business side of it. So this brings me up to, you know, in these conversations, we kind of talk around something I describe for myself as a decision point and with you, I thought it'd be interesting to really go into this idea of people over profits. Profits. It's on some of your social profiles. I think what you mean by it has already come through in this conversation. We're only like 12, 15 minutes in what I do.

I mean it's simple. It's win, win or no deal. Okay. Either you and I are going to win in the transaction or no deal. Right. That could be myself and another agent, myself and the consumer, myself and the staff member. Doesn't matter. It's like we are going to figure out a fair and equitable way to leave this situation and it's going to be about our relationship. Far more important than the money we're going to make that is attached to that. Right. Most people, it's money first and then relationship. We are relationship first and then money.

So that's, that's where exactly where I wanted to go is. I feel like it's a leap of faith for some people to trust that that's the case. As much as people use, you know, relationships over transaction as a language, I just don't feel like it is a true decision making filter for a lot of folks. Would you observe the same and if so, why do you think that's the case? Like why can't more people get to this place where you are without a great deal of hand holding or guidance?

I think that because there was no policing and it was permitted. People could get away with things. But not anymore. Right. You know, no one's going to work with you without reading your reviews, without going, checking you out on social media. And I just think human nature, human nature, people will typically do the least that they need to do. Right. If somebody says, you know, you get the, you get to, you get the carrot if you take two steps and you get the carrot if you take 30 steps, everyone's taking the carrot with two steps. So I just believe that now if you're in the real estate space or any space, I don't care what space you're in and people are reading your reviews. I mean, I have thousands of reviews and it, it matters to me. When we're working with someone, I'm thinking the whole time is, am I earning a five star review? Because if I'm not, I better, I better step it up. Right. So I think that before we were not policed, people did not need to. And now we are. And you must.

Yeah, very fair. And, and, and policed by the market in general. And that information is out there.

Right. If the consumer is really in charge, I mean, you and I, no matter what we're doing, no matter what we're buying, no matter what we're, where we're traveling, it doesn't matter, we're going to decide and we have options. And so if we don't like option one, bink, we're going to click to option two. So we've got to do the right thing. And I like the policing because it helps everybody behave better.

Yeah. Can you think of just to like really bring this home for some folks? Can you think of a time when something wasn't quite win win and you either A, modified the situation or B, just backed away from it? Like I want people to understand what this looks like in real life.

Yeah. I mean there's so many. I'll just give you personal. So as a real estate agent, you know, I would go on listing appointments all the time or I'd be working with buyers and I got in many situations where maybe a seller would ask me to do something that I didn't feel was the right thing to do and it didn't align with my standard or my culture or who I was and I was not going to stay with that situation just because for a paycheck. Right. I, I walked away. I would walk away repeatedly. And we teach our agents the same, you know, listen, if someone is not showing you respect and they're not treating you right and they're not, you know, they're just disrespecting you to a high, high, high level. Maybe that's not the right environment for you. You know, maybe don't focus so much on the paycheck. Focus on making sure that you're so leveraged in your business that when somebody is not treating you right, you can walk away. Right. I'm not, I'm just not for sale like that, Ethan. You know, I've had agents with come in my company. Here's another great example. Fantastic agents that can sell houses, but necessarily, maybe their behavior, maybe the way they're treating others is just completely disaligned with the company. The company might lose a couple hundred grand, but that's okay because that person, I've watched it with my own eyes, could potentially poison lots of people. So you have to be really connected, not so much to the money, but more to your reputation, to what you believe in, to who you are. The money always comes. The money is the easy part.

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Yeah, people get confused and they think that the top performer in the company is the definition of who you are. But really the definition of who you are is how you made the person feel, how you treated them, how did you make their experience exceptional? Right. That's who you are. You're not a number of transactions.

Yeah. And that's kind of another zone I wanted to go to, or at least how I was going to tee it up is like we look at a successful entrepreneur and business builder, team builder like you. You know, an organization of 100 people. You know, nearly 8,000 families served nearly 3 billion in sales over the years. And it's easy to look at that now and make some assumptions about it. I'd love for you to break that down, like, take us back. How did this start? What was your initial ambition as you started getting your feet under you? I mean, it sounds like you had a little bit of a jumpstart because of, because of your family and some of maybe what you. And learn from them intuitively, not just about the business, but about the way to treat people. But take us back, you know, 20 years or something. Like, what was your ambition at the time and when did the team occur to you as this is something I really want to do and build?

Yeah. I love telling this. It's because I want other people to know that what it takes and that everyone's got the potential that wants to do it. Well, number one, I got into real estate because I found myself going through divorce and I was now a single mom with two kids. I was on the no option plan, right. And I got into sales. I thought to myself, I am not doing real estate because I watched my parents do it. No chance are you getting me in real estate. And my mom, who still till this day tells me what to do, she's like, honey, you're going to get your real estate license. You're going to love it. So I said, no chance. She signed me up without my permission, which is my mom. And I got my real estate license. And about six weeks in, I literally went to my parents and I'm like, why didn't you tell me to do this sooner? This is the greatest thing ever. Like, I'm getting to help people and meet people and you know, I. You mentioned growing up in real estate. I. I think I learned from my parents how to serve and take care of humans more than I did anything about, like, the details of sales. I don't really think I had a whole lot of sales training and then got into the business, had two small kids. They were three or three and six. They are now 32 and 29. And they have each made me a grandma, which is the greatest thing on the planet. But, you know, I started out as a very naive, no clue what I was doing. ETHAN REAL ESTATE AGENT and the thing that seemed really accessible to me, not having any leads or having anything, was to work people who needed rentals, right? People needed to find a place to live. And I started helping renters. Maybe one day I can tell you the most greatest rental story on the planet. It's the best. Started doing rentals, and I didn't know any different. But to treat a renter that maybe I was making 50 or $100, I didn't know any different to treat them if I was making $1,000 or $2,000, right? So to me, it was just like build a relationship. I honestly didn't know any different and started building relationships. Worked really hard at, you know, I sat in open house five days a week during. When I dropped my kids off, I'd find vacant home. I'd find it. An experienced agent, hey, can I sit in your vacant property? I'd set up shop every day until my kids got out of school. Started meeting people in the neighborhood, found some buyers. Buyers became sellers, renters became buyers. And pretty quickly, it only took me about maybe 24 months, my business started to grow. It was growing not because I was a great realtor. It was growing because I had built so many good relationships and people wanted to refer me. They appreciated me, they knew I cared about them, and I was coming from a genuine place. So I started getting lots of referrals. And then I realized, whoa, like, I can't. I can't manage all this, you know, got my first assistant, and right away I got a buyer agent. And something I've been. I've done really well in my career because I've mostly done things really wrong, but something I've done really well is I've never been that person to try to hoard business and keep all the money to myself, right? I understood that you can win through and with other people as well. So I brought on a buyer agent, and they started working on my buyers. I stuck with the sellers, and organically, it grew. It just. The more people we helped, the more knowledgeable I became, the more I gave back, the more my business was growing organically. And that's. That's pretty much the story.

And so buyer's agent first. I think that's relatively common. Any missteps in, say, your first 5, 6, 10 team, I'm sure there are.

I Mean, maybe we don't have enough time for my missteps.

Maybe characterize briefly or share a tip, for better or for worse, in that period between the beginning you've got a buyer's agent working with you and up to the point where you first started thinking about getting out of production, because I think that's where a lot of folks get stuck is at that point of can I afford to move out of production? What could people be setting up along the way to prepare for that moment?

I, I never wanted to get out of production. It happened because the company was growing and we as a company at that time, we were able to sit down and talk about like what would be best for the whole. And there were people who had been there for me. I have an agent that's been with me for 18 years. I'm like, I have a lot of longevity in my team. And you know what? We decided that it was time, it was a group effort and I came out of production after 20 years. But if somebody's entering the business, look, I don't care if you're in the business six months or six years, depends on, depending on where you are. I know I've said this a few times, but relationships and database. So these are the two, these are the two non negotiables, right? Every human being that you meet, that you have a conversation with, that will walk away from the conversation trusting you and your, your, your, your opinions, they should go in your database. And that's something I didn't do in the first five to seven years. I, I wasn't collecting data. No one told me to collect data. I had no idea, you know, so I just looked at the whole county as my database, which was crazy. So every person you meet, take the time to build, you know, have conversations with them. I built my business on the soccer field, on the hockey, at the hockey rink. You know, there's so many different ways. I could give you 50 ways to build your business, but I would say collect the data. More than just collecting the data, you must positively, unequivocally, you must romance your database, right? Having names and numbers and email addresses and all these types of things is useless if you're not going to do anything with it, right? So it's really building a plan. And this can be for a brand new agent from the day you get your license and doesn't matter where you are in the career is having a very refined plan. Like how often you're going to send a handwritten note. Yes, we still do handwritten notes. How often are you calling? How often are you going to do a pop buy? How often are you going to break bread and go to lunch or breakfast or have a coffee, you know, and then really identify maybe five people that are like your star clients, the people who are going to send you business throughout the year. And then you really want to get together, want to make sure. So I think what I didn't do was I didn't collect the data early on. I have, obviously, for the last 20 years, but in the first five years I did not. And the other thing I did wrong, well, a lot of things I did wrong. But I think this is really good. It'll help. Whether you're in a small team or just two of you or 10 of you or 20 of you, is you got to learn when to say no and walk away. Like I said, I love everyone. So I would hold on to relationships, other team members, maybe staff members. I would hold on because my heart hurt to separate from them. The business piece, like, honestly, Ethan, like I said it before, the business part's easy. The money's easy. But for me, emotionally, someone leaving me or me having to remove them, that was. Hurt my heart. So. But you have to be able to walk away from people. And I learned many years ago now that when someone comes into my life, I really celebrate them. And. And when it's time, if that happens, I celebrate that season ending. But it takes time to get there. A lot of us want to hold on much too long, and that can really damage your business.

Yeah. You made me think about something very, very subtle that I imagine happens to almost everyone who's in a position like you, where you are the. You're at the center of the business. You maybe have one or two or three people around you, but it's still you. It's your brand name, it's your network to date. And you have to start passing some of these people off. Like, I've known this person for X amount of time, or this person was in my wedding or so and so's wedding or whatever the case may be. And so talk a little bit about that because that's like a little bit of a hybrid. It's not like this person is no longer good and healthy for me or the people around me or my business. This relationship's over. It's. I can no longer handle your business directly. I'm going to give you a team member. Talk a little bit about the grace around that a little bit.

I mean, that's a really great question. You know, and for us, it was very. That was actually one of the things we did really well. I had a small group of agents that I had fully mentored that I had coached and trained and led. And when it was time, that decision that I mentioned that we made for me to come out of production and work on the business versus in the business, I was confident that they knew exactly how to handle that and the way we would pass that off, because, of course, I have still till this day. Lots of sellers and buyers want to work with us. We never had a situation where they weren't just so happy for us and respected the fact that I had grown into a CEO role and that I had taken the time and the years and the effort to train people to be able to give them the same level of service. There's a few times never happens anymore. But in the first few years, maybe I had to jump on a call and they'd be like, lori, but I want you. You know, like, you sold my house. And I'd be like, well, I want you too, but you really don't want me. I don't even know how to access the MLS anymore. You know, and you just have conversation with them. You know, it's one of our agents, the Matt Weiner. He's so funny, Ethan. He. They say, well, I want to talk to Lori, and you're not Lori. And he's like, but I'm little Lori. And like, they all make fun. He. He tells Sellers, well, if you. If you went to Kentucky Fried Chicken, would you expect the Colonel to come out? You know, like, they kind of make fun with it. But if you have spent the time and effort to make sure your culture is intact and your standards are intact and that you really poured into these people who are taking over your book of business, I mean, it should be pretty seamless.

How do you set that standard on the folks that you bring into the organization? I'm sure, again, some of it is natural attraction. You put out a ton of video content on social, and so people probably are attracted to the way that you talk about the business and the way that you reflect some of the things that are going on, the way that you celebrate the team and the team activities. So you're probably attracting people that are good fits. But is there anything else that you do to make sure that you have the types of people who you are. Just to use the language you offered a minute ago, you know, where you can turn over some of the relationships and the opportunities in your own book of business that Obviously requires the right kind of person, a high degree of trust. People that are able to fulfill your standard share a little bit about that process of, like, who's a good fit, who isn't, how do you welcome them in? How do you kind of protect the brand and the team from people who aren't?

Right, right. So that's really interesting, and that's a big hurdle for real estate teams, and I'm sure many, many businesses. But, you know, when you go through the interview process with people and you get to know them, you really don't know until they enter the team. They go through onboarding and they start, you know, getting their wheels and get going. And those that really follow the system in the process, they start to attach. And those that don't, typically it's because they're really excited to be part of the company, but they don't want to do the work. As far as my book of business like that is definitely with agents that are super seasoned. They've been there for a period of time. And the thing I love is that those seasoned agents train the newer agents. So this is a culture that's being, you know, passed along. But you. You just don't know Ethan until somebody is in your world and you can see the activities, you see their dedication and commitment to their businesses, and, you know, you try in the hiring process, but quite frankly, you don't know. You don't know until you get in. It's different than hiring. Hiring a W2 employee.

Oh, dramatically, radically. It's one of the things that always excited me. I've never been a real estate agent, much less a team leader, but I've worked alongside many over the past 12, 15 years or so. And it's one of the things that I always respected about is that unique dynamic and some of the challenges that it introduces, also opportunities as well. Just like that dynamic is a very unique one relative to a lot of other folks who are working professionally at anything. Cover for me. I'm asking you to do a lot here, like something concise, but like, you know, from the time you left production five, six years ago to today, today, the organization is obviously larger and even more successful. What are one or two things, whether that's a system, a tool, a process, a person, or a role? What are a couple things you have in place now that you wish you maybe had in place, you know, three, four, maybe even five years ago?

Well, I don't wish I had anything different because everything we've done has been part of the journey to get where we're going, we have very big goals right now. We're hoping, you know, in the next 24 months to hit around 250 real estate agents and really start to grow our business. So really interesting. I don't tell this to my team, but as soon as I came out of production, like the business was explosive, right? So it got even better. And this is what I was referring to earlier. Sometimes you need to step, step aside and let these people go and do what they, they want to do. I had, you know, 20 years, 20 years in the field, you know, and it was time for me to go work on growth and development, which I, I am obsessed with, right. I just love it. I love what I'm doing. Like, you know, I love my relationships with these big companies that I'm in a relationship with. I get to sit in rooms with multi, multi billionaires and learn from them. I mean, I love what I do. But in terms of what got us since I came out of production to today, I'm going to have to tell you that's easy and it's clear and that's certain people. It's not a system. Look, I got a lot of systems. Follow Up Boss being one of them. I could sit here and Name to you 50 systems that we're running to make the wheel go round and round. But it's the people. My chief operating officer, Camilla, who I believe you know, actually she and I will get to speak together on the stage at Follow Up Boss. We're really excited. Last year she spoke, my daughter was having a baby and I couldn't go. So I'm excited. But she's been such a catalyst in our company getting to where it is today, right? Some of the agents that have been here for years have been a catalyst in getting us to where we are today. Some of our administrative staff, I cannot tag a system and say it got us here, right? It's the people. It is the people. As a matter of fact, when your business is collapsing and your systems are firing, because I believe I've got the best systems, bar none for real estate. But when things aren't working, you're usually missing a person, right? So I tell everybody, look at your business. Like if you've got all the systems and this is working and that's working, but you're missing something's, you're not getting what you want. You're missing a human. So I would tell you that it's the people all day, every day. I would put my, put my money.

On it, really Good. I. Slightly different, but partly related. I imagine there are many solo agents listening to this right now who would probably be better off as team members. Would you identify that that's probably the case. And if so, kind of. How would you guide someone to think about is the team environment right for you? Let's see. Let's just say, you know, I think the hard charging, super successful solo agents are the ones that generally create so much opportunity for themselves that they wind up needing to bring in a buyer's agent, as you did. But speak to that other person who's like, they're not good at all the things they're trying to be good at.

All the things they're getting good at all.

Yeah. Right. No one can be. And that's exactly what you just shared in that past response. Camilla does things that make the business work in a way that you could never do without her.

Correct.

Or someone like her, but probably her. So anyway, speak to that solo agent that is probably suffering more than they need to in a variety of ways, whether that's lifestyle, production or some other factor. How should people be thinking about joining a team who are not right now?

Yeah. And I think that what I'm seeing, and I've been seeing it for about two years now, and I think we're going to see it more and more and more, is that the consumer is pretty much demanding that their real estate agent have access to everything. Right. They want this seamless transaction. Right. I have. We have to have like a specialist at every piece of the transaction. And as a single agent, that can get really cost. That can be. That can really cost you a lot. I think that some people are just not made for a team and they prefer to be on their own and like, full respect for that. Go for it. But I think that people who are single agents and they want massive growth or they even want a little bit of growth, I think it's good to interview multiple teams to figure out where you fit. You know, I think a single agent feels like they're waving the white flag and they're caving in and giving in because they joined a team. And I see it the opposite. Right. I see it that, hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I want to serve my consumer at the highest level. I want to run 50 transactions or 100 transactions. I want to make a million dollars a year. Am I going to go out and hire all these people that are gonna weigh your payroll down, have to pay for marketing and all of this because, again, the consumer demands it, or am I Gonna plug in somewhere and win on my own effort. So I do think we are heading more and more and more and more into teams. I do think there are agents that are not suited for a team, and that. That is that one particular solo agent. I think that's awesome for them, you know, to do their thing. But you're not giving in or you're. You're like, you're not using the team as a fallback. You're using a team so that you can grow a business. It's not. It's not because you suck as a single agent. It's because you want more for your consumer, you want more for your clients. You want client events, you want listing management, transaction management, marketing, hr. I mean, you know, we got a department for everything.

Yeah, really good. So much useful advice in there. Obviously, the theme that you open and close down is that you're not giving up to join a team. You're actually probably creating a more profitable opportunity for yourself because of all the things that the team provides. I think a lot of people probably get hung up on the split a little bit, but it's like, you know, if you weigh it against your current situation, odds are you're going to come out ahead in terms of what it enables you to do. I also appreciate this call to interview different teams. Like this is, you know, not every team is the right fit. And so I think that's another thing that happens too. If someone goes into a team, they don't have a great experience and they just assume that it's the model. But in fact, it could have just been a culture mismatch.

I also think that the single agent potentially wants to be a team leader, right? They're looking to grow their own team at some point. And my advice for that person is a couple things. One, you know, maybe join a team and spend a year or two and kind of see how that runs so you can get an idea of what that looks like. And I get the call all the time, Ethan. Or different people that I'm coaching, like, you know, hey, I really want to grow a bigger team. I really want to grow a bigger business. And I say to all the people who want to grow, I think that's awesome. We need more leaders out there. I always say, like, you know, when you wake up every day, you know, you need to ask yourself, like, and you better be able to answer the question, like, why do people. Why will somebody trust me and come work for me? I'm still asking myself, you know, hey, why don't. Why does my staff stay with me and not instead of somebody else? What value am I providing? Why will agent A, B or C come work for Lori Finkelstein? Reader Real estate versus Blank Real estate. What are we doing to raise our leadership led to be better, to give more, to bring more value, to help people be the best versions of themselves. If you can't answer those questions, then don't start your team yet. Because most people, when I say to them, because in, in the people that I coach, Ethan, they are usually hiring me to help me help them grow a team, right? The people come to me either because they've got like a small team, midsize team, but they want massive growth. So when they, when I say to them, so first tell me why someone would. Would want to work for you. It's a homework prod, a project. I mean, it takes time for people to answer that question. Usually they'll say to me, well, I just want to make more money and I want to work less. And I'm like, oh, really? Well, me too. But that's not happening. So, you know, it's, it's, it's very introspective. Like, you need to know why someone's going to trust you with their livelihood. Right. When I wake up in the morning, it's like, okay, these 80 or 100 people, they're trusting me to turn the lights on. Yeah, right. So I think for the single agent who wants to do that, I honor them. I am excited for them. But make sure you can answer that question.

Yeah. Essentially a value prop question. Lori, this has been awesome. There are so many things I want to talk to you about that we did not cover. So we'll have to do this again.

I would love. Before I let you go, Lori 2.0.

Yeah, totally. It's going to happen.

I love it.

Before I let you go, though, we close these out with a fun set of questions. You only have to answer one. So the first one is, what is your favorite team besides your own real estate team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of besides your own real estate team?

My favorite team. Can it be a sports team?

It can be any kind of team you want. I've had sports teams. Yes.

Let me think about that for a second. Ethan, this is a great pop quiz. My favorite team doesn't have to be a real estate team. I love the team that I'm on with my, with my other coaches, with the coaching company I'm with. I love the team. We're here for each other 24, 7. Doesn't matter. Middle of the night, my phone goes off. I get up, I answer it. Somebody needs me. I love being a part of that group. I'm learning. I'm becoming a better version of myself. They call me out when I'm not a better version of myself. Yes, I'd say the group of people I'm with, my coaching company.

Awesome. What is your most frivolous purchase? Or one of them, or what is a cheapskate habit that you continue to hold on to even though you don't need to?

Okay, so I'm super coupon friendly. Okay, so if I'm buying anything on the Internet, I have in my little tool ball toolbar up here, and I click, click, click, click, click, looking for all the discount codes I can find. I'm not embarrassed of that. I love a deal, Ethan. Like, love a deal. So I buy Eddie. I'll buy lots of little things on the Internet that I'm sure I don't need. But I'm always looking for a coupon, and if I can't get one, I'll start hunting for it. And I might not buy it if I can't get the coupon until I find the coupon. My most frivolous purchase. Wow, that's a good one, Ethan. I would say maybe buying myself a super beautiful designer bag.

All right, I. I'm with you, by the way, on the cheapskate thing and the thing like, I'm. I'm not as aggressive about it, but if you are.

If I'm a cheapskate with the coupons, I have money for the designer bag.

Of course there's a middle way in all things for me. It's when the coupon code box shows up on checkout. I'm like, oh, yeah, I should be looking for a coupon. That's so they. A lot of. A lot of checkout scenarios remind me of it. I'm not super aggressive about it. Last pair of questions, and you only need to answer one. What are some of the ways you keep learning, growing, and developing? Or what are some of the ways you really enjoy resting, relaxing, and recharging?

Mmm. I'm gonna have to go with question one because I love learning, developing, and growing. My favorite thing to do is to get myself into rooms, like different masterminds, different conferences, interviews, all. Any room where I kind of feel intimidated. Like, gosh, do I belong here? Am I really. You know, these people are so far and away advance from me, and then I know I'm in the Right room. Right. I don't care if I sit in the back and I'm putting a little hoodie on or something, but I'm gonna get myself into rooms where I feel like I don't belong because eventually I'm sitting in the front of that room.

I love it. I love that for two reasons in particular. One, the physical proximity with other human beings. I like being in the room with other people. And this other one, too is just generally getting out of your comfort zone is where so much it initially provokes perhaps some fear or imposter syndrome for some people. But that is the beginning of a new growth process. So love that. Well done. For folks who've made it this far into the conversation, they may want to learn more about you or your team. Where would you send folks who have enjoyed this?

I would send them to my personal Instagram at Lori Finkelstein reader. Super easy.

Awesome. I will link that up immediately adjacent to wherever people are watching and listening. So no matter where you are watching on YouTube or listening to your preferred podcast player, that link and some other links will be immediately adjacent. Lori, thank you so much for this. I appreciate it. I learned a lot. And again, I have more questions for you.

I love it. Ethan, you're awesome. You know, I've had the privilege and honor to do quite a few podcasts and webinars, and I really enjoyed getting to meet you and you're just such a kind person and I'm excited to see you. I think we'll see each other in about two weeks in Los Angeles, so I'm excited.

In fact.

Yes, me too.

Thank you so much for the positive feedback. I appreciate it very much.

It's a pleasure. Have a great day.

You too.

Take care. Bye.

Bye.

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