006 Kris Lindahl on Putting People in Positions to Win

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Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team.

Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

For insights into starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team, we're talking with Chris Lindahl. A few fun facts before we get started. He's been nominated Innovator of the year several times by Inman News. Be generous is a core value for the team, an apparel line and the spark behind the Chris Lindahl Foundation. And he's often recognized as the arms out beyond the billboard guy. And you might see people do the Lindahl at a Minnesota Twins or Minnesota Wild game. Chris, thanks for talking Team Os today.

Awesome. Thanks for having me. That's quite the introduction.

Yeah, you know, I try to get a lot of ideas into one compact intro and there's so many things we could share about how you got where you are. But to get started, I'm going to ask you a question I've already asked you once before and that is what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

And there's, there's so many. I'm trying to think of what would come to the top. I think the, the market that we're in today is the ability to pivot. Right. If, I mean, I, I, you look at the world that, you know, that we just came from and where we're headed, if you don't have the ability to move and navigate, it's going to be tough.

Yeah. How do you advise anyone to stay in touch with what's going on? Localize it, because obviously every local market has some nuance to it. And then also share that within the team. Like how do you make sure that your team members who are representative of your brand and they're representative one another collectively, how do you make sure that folks, I mean, you're driving some of that pivot yourself. But then there's also like this needs to be executed out on the street with buyers, with sellers, with partners. Kind of. How does that flow go for you? Like, how do you stay in touch and how do you make sure that the team is in touch with it too?

It comes back to one of the things that anyone that's any sort of leadership position or has been a part of any framework, it's the right seats, conversation, having people in the right seats. And so first it's gathering that information. Right. What is it that is happening in the world what are the indicators of where we're going? You know, what measurables are we using? Like, what is our scorecard, right? What, what is it that we're, we're actually trying to achieve? And then looking at what is the, what are the macro things that matter to us and then really distilling those at a local level, right? We know what rates are doing, we know what jobs are doing, we know what the bonds are doing. Like, those are all things that we know. But how does that impact us at a local level? Then we've got to get into, you know, supply levels. I mean, I think in today's world, that's a very big one, looking at days on market which has a direct correlation to price reductions. And so you get all that information and you've got to have someone that can gather that and they've got to be, you know, that's got to be someone that has that research, you know, detail orientation that can put those things together. And then you've got to have someone that can deliver that to the team. Right, Right. I think one of the assessments, we use a lot of them, one of them is working genius, which you and I have talked about before. But you got to make sure that you've got someone that can not only deliver that to a team, but stay with them, right? So if you have galvanizing to get them all excited, but you're not willing to stick, stick with, stay with it. Well, then you've got to find someone on the team that is in that seat to do that. And so that's a, a critical piece for us is making sure that you've got the, the, the right people in, in the right seats to be able to not only get that information, stay in tune with what's happening, because it changes by the, it seems like by the minute today, like a new report comes out, something changes and then the market goes crazy, rates go crazy, like consumer confidence gets impacted and like, and then you need to know what to do with it. And so it really comes down to the people aspect because so much of business and especially with what we're doing, it's all about the people. And we're only as good as is where we put them. And, and the place that they, the, the place that they're best served and their genius really comes down to the framework that we have. And so as long as we have the right framework in place and everyone's true to, to really what they're doing and we've got the right scorecards and accountabilities then we set everyone up to win and then that's how you get to that next level. Even in a, you know, the macro headwinds that we have today.

Yeah. It always delights me to hear the word scorecard used in this context. For honestly, I like I'm gonna ask this on be like someone's like okay, scorecard, tell me more. Just give a quick go to scorecards for folks who aren't familiar with that language.

Yeah. So you've got your company, you know, you've got your company scorecard which I think is the. I mean none of these are easy to assemble, right. I mean they're, I mean it's really challenging. It's taken us years and we also, we still have a lot of work to do. I mean, by no means do we have it all figured out. It's evolving and ongoing and changing and everything. You can think the priorities that we thought were the business six months ago might not all be the same priorities today or of the future. And so it's, it's changing but it's really getting down to what are the ground level activities per position? Right. I think a lot about sports and you think about football like the wide receiver in most cases isn't going to do a significant amount of blocking compared to the offensive line. There's going to be some blocking that's going to receiver. They're going to be in motion and crack back, which is kind of illegal now in football. But a lot of those things are going to be position type like the, the running back isn't going to be throwing a lot of passes, but the quarterback is. Right. And so, and so really getting down to that one. What are the key responsibilities per person on the team and if everyone does those things? Well, I mean you could look at it from a stoplight report like green, yellow, red. Or you could be on track, off track. If all of those are on track. Well, you know, already know that the company metrics and scorecards are going to look good. But if you only have the company ones and you don't have the individual ones. Well, when the company ones are off track, you don't necessarily know exactly where to go. Right. There's in the, the numbers. I mean this is coming from a super high vision person that doesn't like to be in the weeds of tracking and dashboards and spreadsheets and all the things that go with that. But the math and the numbers actually tell you where your problem is in most sales organizations. Right. You can see like, okay, where is our problem at? Like, and, and then you. And then you've got to be able to, then you've got to be able to run quickly towards that. Whether it's, you know, in, in some cases in businesses like ours, it might be just a temporary band aid. Well, we can build out bigger process, you know, to, to fix it long term, right? So it's like, it's like the boat. It's like plug the hole, right? It's like, okay, now do we need a new boat? Do we need to refurbish the boat? Like, what do we need here? Right? And then we go back and assess. But you can only do that really well when you have the right seats, the right people in the right seats. And I think that's critical. And I. Growing up, I think and I just. Actually we had our, our all day with our leadership not too long ago and I. One of the things I mentioned there is like I want to be a part of a company in an organization that feels like the highest level sports teams that I ever played on, where the 66 center doesn't think they're going to be the point guard and dribble the ball up the court because they don't know how to dribble. They're really clear on, you know, what it is they do well and what they should not do. And so when you can get an entire organization and it's not easy to do because we're all human beings, right? We have our blind spots, we have our weaknesses. Like there's all the other factors that come into play with this. And so just really getting everyone to put the team before the eye and putting that all together is, is critical. And I, and I think that's how we've been able to do that well. But it hasn't been easy and there are a lot of challenges. And I think some of what I said there might sound a little easier said than done too.

Yeah, it is a long work in progress and so we're documenting where the company is going. The way that I've done them in organizations I've been is we're usually throwing it out. Kind of a 10 to 20 year like big vision thing. Throwing it out 3. Throwing it out 1 and then looking at the quarter ahead. And then the other benefit of having individual scorecards with clear expectations. We'll kind of get to this later in this conversation is makes hiring easier. It makes expect expectation setting easier. It's clear communication. Hey, this is what we agreed was going to be important to both of us in this position. And so like it just creates this clarity and alignment that you spoke to before. We get.

I want to just add one really quick thing that you mentioned there that I think is really important. What I found is that most people want that too.

Yes.

Most people want that scoreboard, most people want that accountability, they want that purpose. They want to know what they're driving.

Towards and how am I helping the team.

Yeah. And so there's nothing that drives most human beings more crazy than wondering what does, does what I do even matter and how am I impacting the greater good in the whole of this entire thing? And so the more you can show, like, how does this all play out? You're actually going to get more from people. It's going to set up stronger one on one conversations of like, Ethan, like your numbers are off the chart. You're crushing it right now. That encouragement keeps you going. And, and on the other side of it, if there's a few numbers that are off track, like we can have some productivity conversations, some coaching sessions around, like Ethan, I, I see an opportunity here where I can help you grow. You're going to, you know, surpass your numbers and two weeks from now we're going to look back and if you implement these little things, it's going to make a big difference. But when you don't know those things, it's really hard to have the conversations. And I, I found, I mean this, like being a super high vision person, a lot of times my vision outruns the operations of the company and that's, that can be healthy, but it also can be dangerous at the same time. Right. It's like when you're so far ahead, you start making decisions that the back end is not ready for. And so it's really important that as you look at all of the metrics and you look at all the things that are happening, that you have at least an understanding of where things stand operationally before you make decisions. Because most really high vision people tend to make decisions more on intuition and gut and less on data and facts. Right. It's like, oh, this just. And in a lot of cases, that high vision person with the high intuition is more often than not right, they're not wrong. But sometimes the operations side of like the, the details and the facts of the entire thing cannot keep up with that level of vision and intuition. And then you add in, you know, quick start and all the other things that go into it. But that's where the more information, even for me, that, that I Am a really heavy intuition, personality. Just as I just want to see the details like really fast, like they help me, like just. I just don't need, I don't. I want a really high level. I want it really quick. It just helps me really quick validate how I'm like, is my intuition right? Oh, wait, like I thought it was this, but now I'm looking at that like, oh, that must be that. And so the two together work well.

But.

But you're never gonna see me in the trenches digging through numbers, trying to figure out how the facts can sell my intuition.

Man. We're okay. We're in it now. So I think it's especially important. I mean, you mentioned like having coaching conversations with salespeople. I think for your admin team where they don't have an as easy a scoreboard, this. Am I winning? Am I losing? Am I contributing? How am I contributing you? You know, the scorecard is especially helpful there. So now you make me want to double back. You just mentioned an all day with your leadership team. How often do you do that and what does that day look like?

Yeah, so we do quarterly all days. We do a two day annual and we do weekly leadership meetings and have for a long time. And then we also do quarterly state of the companies. We do one for the employees and one for the agents. Like, where are we at? Like, what did we do? You know, what did we, what do we get to celebrate? Where do we, where have we identified the opportunities are for the next quarter? Right. It just, it's, it's a, it's a way for people in the company to get a pulse on where things are at. Right. Because so often, you know, you know, when we're, we're in a company like this, you know, you're just, you know, your head down every single day that you don't really come up for air to see. Like, how does this actually all look? You know, like a 360 view of the entire thing. And so it's just really good for people to hear that. And one thing that was, you know, you were just talking about that I, that I thought about too, a lot of times people with higher vision. I say that because there's a lot of people, you know, that are, they're going to consume this, that are probably team leaders or agents that maybe are transition team leaders or broker owners that likely have some vision. So not every single person has vision. And so this, the things that I'm describing that we have implemented into our company really help people with little to no vision, right? The things that we can see or that we know are going on. You might have other people in the company that are, that do super well at their job, that cannot see how all the other dots are connecting, like, hey, I wonder why they're putting this in place, I wonder why this is happening. And they have zero idea how this is all going to come together someday. Right? And so when you can articulate that at a quarterly and you've got your leadership meetings and we also have our weekly department level meetings as well, that you know, a lot of those issues and things roll up ultimately to the leadership meeting, but it keeps everyone in tune with where you're going. And the more of those conversations, that structure that you follow, the more that people are in the know of like, what are we doing here? And especially, I mean, I think now more than ever market changes, right? Things are changing. Like, you know, I bet a lot of companies, I, I'm just guessing, but I would imagine finance departments of brokerages and teams are like, where are the commission checks at? Right? And so if they don't, you know, I mean with you got significantly less sales and they just came from an environment where checks are getting processed like crazy and their deal flow is at an all time high to that just slowly going down for most companies and all of a sudden they're like, whoa, like are we still going to be in business? Like what is this going to look like? And if, and if they don't have any clarity to anything else that is happening and, and, and really just like a slight education on how this is all going to be assembled in a, in a new way and in a new world, they assume the company's going out of business tomorrow. Right. I mean if they don't have high vision and most people in finance, they're high execution, right? And so, and so those things really make a big difference because just like the economy overall, there's a consumer confidence, there's also an employee confidence level, right? So how do employees feel about the company? How do they feel about the mission, the vision? Like do they still believe in the direction? Because the minute that you lose that faith, well, they're looking for a new job, right. And so I think those things are really important to stay in tune with that and recognize that, that everyone consumes and understands things very differently. Some people are super fast, you give them a couple of words and I get it all makes sense and others need to hear it like four or five times and it doesn't make anyone better or Worse or right or wrong. It's just we all see the world differently. And so you have to make sure that you have a structure in place to, to really adhere to all the different personality types and the different types of humans you have in the company. Otherwise you're going to have some people that are feeling slightly lost in an, in an environment like this.

Really good call out again, especially on this idea that it's not for better or worse. We just have different strengths and weaknesses and these are the mechanisms that allow us to operate as a maturing, growing company even when we face headwinds. I would also add that the, the regular cadence there. I mean you talked about some weekly activity. The quarterly all company, the quarterly planning and the quarterly all company communication, the annual leadership planning. All really critical. Not to skip any of that stuff because that's how we keep it all moving and it creates norms and expectations for those people that really need those to feel comfortable and confident. Okay. Before we get too much farther, I would love for you, Chris, to characterize your team however you like. Market size, structure, personality or culture. Like however you want to characterize your team. I'd love for you to do that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. So the reason we've been able to do what we've done is because of our people like number one. That's our, one of the biggest strengths that we have. I mean, I think there's some other things that, that, that come after that. I mean we have a really well known brand. I mean we're consistently the number one team in Minnesota and Wisconsin, which rankings to me don't mean much of anything. I think there's a lot of other things that are far more important. But of course that might be something, you know, easy to say from someone that's that, you know, for us that been number one so many times. But, but I think, you know, when I look at our company today, it's very, it's a team. It's all run as a team. 90% of the business, through our entire, the, the entire production, our company comes generated from the company. Right. Which is very rare. So we don't have, in our model, we don't have a lot of agent source business, meaning agents are going out and prospecting or going to their friends and family. They are coming to our company because we are providing them with opportunities and we've created a very intuitive, streamlined process to allow them to focus on the things that they love to do. And we've taken care of the things that I learned from my own journey of being an agent that I didn't love to do and I wasn't good at. Right. And so we're constantly implementing different things into the structure that make life easier for the agents. That, and I think often agents don't even know the things that they love to do or don't love to do until you get a chance to step back or step out and reflect and go, gosh, what portions of my job do I really not like or am I not really good at? And that's what I had the opportunity to do is when I stepped into that team leader spot, I started realizing the things I was like, gosh, I really wasn't good at this. I really struggled here. And if we could just build some of these things for all the other agents and the things that they're going through will save them the future pain that they don't know that someday they're going to have. And so that's what really what our journey has been. And it's set up a lot of other things that we've now been able to implement and put in place. And you know, the branding is, I think, what most people know us for. We've created one of the more well known brands in a, in a local dmas and I think that's what's pretty cool. Like, you know, we're, I mean, Minnesota and is not a small. Minneapolis St. Paul is not small. Not the, not, you know, not the mega size, but I mean it's in the top 15. Right. And so that, I mean you talk about getting to a point where you have millions and millions of people that know who you are. Like, like top of mind, that is not easy to do. You know, I think there's some luck that we had of riding, you know, an economic wave in an industry that was going up. And so I don't know how many more companies you'll see do what we did in the near future. Like, the economics just aren't there, right. With the conditions and everything that's going on to be able to go all into the level that we did. So I mean, I think of course we have a lot of great people. We had a lot of, you know, there was a lot of skill that went into building this brand. But I'm going to also acknowledge that we were going straight up at the same time in the economy and in the industry. So that definitely didn't hurt. But all of this now put together with the changes that have, that have come have created a lot of opportunity for us. Right? And that's what, that's the most exciting thing of all of this is I think most companies, most agents, most brokers are sort of where they are at right now. Like that's where they're going to be brand wise for a while. Like there's not going to be a significant amount of musical chairs happening. Like you either have a brand or you don't. And you're probably not going all in to create one in the landscape that we're in today. And if you are, you better have a big bankroll and be comfortable like going in the red for a long time before you get ahead. And there just aren't a lot of people I think are going to stomach that to that level. And so, so that's the exciting thing. And we're starting to see a lot more of the agents in our markets recognize that and come to our company because they're not in a position that they were several years ago to go take risk to get leads where now the sales cycle or the customer, you know, moving cycle is now 12 months as opposed to before it was 30 days. Right. So now if you're an individual agent and you're buying leads, you're not getting your money back for 12 to 14 months. And so you have to have a really deep savings account to be able to spend forward to that level as whereas we've got this machine running and been in a lot longer. And so agents are starting to see that because there are also still a significant amount of agents. Agent count versus the number of transactions so per agent deals is really lowering quickly.

Yeah, a lot there. I especially appreciate that 90% team generated, that's super powerful and I can see why that'd be really helpful in a market like this one in particular. And I feel like the key lever to the whole thing speaking to the broker, the team leader in this scenario is that the margin is gone and therefore the ability to reinvest is going to put you in the red. If you want to build brand and generate leads in different ways besides just straight up buying them.

Yeah. Initially anyone building a brand is deficit spending. Right. I mean, I mean anyone that is really building something substantial you look at, I mean they are always spending ahead, they're always spending forward. Like and in an environment where there's uncertainty or you're, or, or you're not, there's not a clear picture of like I always think about the Wayne Gretzky puck of like skate to where the puck's going to go. There aren't a lot of People right now in the world that know exactly how this thing's going to end and what the next chapter is going to look like. And so to, to dive deep into creating a brand and doing all these things when you don't know where the puck's going, you, you don't actually even know where the puck is on the ice, right? And so, I mean, every day it changes. One day you're like, it's going to be the craziest recession. The next day it's like, oh, it's going to be the softest landing and everyone has money, right? And it's everything in between and, and so you just don't know. And so we've been a little cautious because we caught. Because we don't know exactly what it's going to look like. But we have that luxury to be cautious because of what we have built. And I really think that in the next several years, like the branding piece of this is going to be everything. Especially when houses aren't selling as fast, when things aren't moving as fast, consumers go to the names that they know and trust. And that's exactly why companies market in brand is for trust. And so in a downturn, when things aren't flying off the shelf, you have a lot of people that are inbound. We're. I can already tell the market changes that are happening in our market based on the calls that we're getting, based on the areas that they're coming from, based on the price points in the style of home. I can already see where the market is fracturing. I can see it like, I can see where the problems are just on our inbound. Right? And those people are calling us because they can't sell their home. Right? They're struggling now and what they thought and a lot of them still aren't at the level of, they're still somewhere between what was three years ago and, and where we are today. And they're not really willing to do the things it's going to take to sell their home today. And I, I can see all of that happening and, and I always knew that like the downturns are where companies really make the traction and when you have a brand to do it, you're set up and set. You're so uniquely positioned. Right. I mean, I saw first, when I first got into real estate, most of the agents that I met or saw, like no one knew who they were. Right? I mean, they're cold calling and door knocking and they homeowner's like, wait, who are you like, they didn't even know what they did or where they were, where they worked or anything. And there's. And in a market like this, that's tough. Like, it's tough to. To call someone that doesn't know who you are, doesn't know your company, and you're trying to sell a solution, and they frankly don't trust you. And so we see, you know, newer agents that are getting in the business or just got started and transfer over to our company. The lift that they get is so insane and it's so fast because they're able to be. They could be brand new to real estate and people recognize the brand that they're with. And so pair the right people coming to our company with our branding, and those two things together are rocket fuel.

Yeah, man. Gosh, a lot of really good stuff there. I want to. I want to double back a little bit into, you know, you're talking about when you became a team leader and you recognize some of the things that you were not great at. I also want to acknowledge a lot of the macroeconomic conditions that have been thematic throughout what you've been sharing so far. And I would love for you to tell the story of, you know, kind of the window in your career when you decided to step out of production and to start leading the team full time. And you're here. I know that you'll already do it for the benefit of someone who maybe has recently made that decision and is wondering, should I go back in light of, you know, I was 35 or 42 or 28 or 51% of the production, and then that all kind of like, went away and the rest of the people aren't as productive as I was, because that's the nature of the person who tends to start a team. But tell the story like, where were you in your, you know, in your personal arc? How did that, like, when did it dawn on you? How did that decision go? And. And kind of will from there kind of get into, like, advice for other folks based on the anticipated and unanticipated consequences of your own decision.

Oh, that's a big one. I mean, that I wasn't good at it. So just to start there.

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Like, I wasn't good at it. I don't know anyone that like has like, does that transition real well. Like, it's hard. And you know, for me, like the, the last years of being in production, 2013 was, was the second to last year for me and I sold 147 homes with an assistant. And this is before any of the portals, right? And before all where you could just buy. I mean, 2013, I mean there weren't a lot of like, you know, real estate portals are like, here's 100 leads, here's a bunch of appointments. Like you had to grind it out, right? And then my, my last year of being production was 2014, where I sold 175 homes, which is like a home every two days, right? So with one assistant. I mean, I was running wide open and, and, and I think this is a fundamental difference. It's really critical that everyone listen to what I just said there because this is how some make it out of production well and others don't. What I didn't do is say, oh, the. There's an opportunity to go buy leads and I've got a credit card, so I'm going to go get leads and then I'm going to go find people that will take the leads and I'm going to collect the arbitrage. And that's what most teams have done over the last seven years. And now they find themselves in a position where they're not really in a good place financially. And, and so I built our team out of necessity. Like, I'm capped out. I can't do any more. And, and when I, when I started the team, which was in January of 2015, I had all of those. I started May 2009. So January 15th I started the team. I had all of these families and supporters, like so many of them that were willing to support me, that I had built deep relationships with, that I hosted community events that I gave back to the community. It's it's funny, right before I got on the phone with. Right before I got on this with you, Ethan, I was on the phone and I was talking to a lady. I won't give away her title or company, but there was something that I was working on and should we have this entire conversation and the last two minutes of the conversation, she's like, yeah, I actually know you fairly well. I was like, oh, yeah. She's like, I used to come to all your pumpkin events. She's like, I live in the community where you started. I love everything that you're doing. That was the last thing that she said that was that all those things that I did when I started were years and years and. And years and years ago. Right? And so it's critical that when you're going to launch a business like this, that the foundation is super solid, right? That you have those, you know, and there's all kinds of different books that talk about the advocates and the people that are like, who are those people that are going to support you no matter what? They're going to go. Like, I've met him, I've been to his events. I've seen how he gives back. Like, you need those. Those people supporting you and telling others about the mission that you're on. And so that's the. That was a big fundamental difference. But the part of getting out of production was that was just one piece of it. Like, I can't. I can't do it. The other thing is, is I tried several times and I was terrible at it. And I panicked and had to go back into selling because our numbers were going down so significantly. Right. I remember getting out the first time and going like. And. And I was so bad at it that I would hand off the. The opportunities. Like, someone would call to list their home. And I go, and Ethan's, you're on my team. I'm like, hey, Ethan, here's an opportunity. Go, go list it. Well, you would show up. I didn't tell the customer that Ethan's coming, and they're like, where's Chris? Like, oh. And like. And then our salesperson's got to overcome that objection of someone that either knew me or knew someone else that knew me. And it was a warm referral. And so it's just a really poor handoff. But once we started saying, like, hey, Chris hand selected Ethan to show up, like, then the level of confidence went up. Like, oh, Chris is aware that I'm selling my house, and he put the right person on the job. Then it was a way easier thing. But before we educated the customer about the way that our model worked and why Ethan is showing up, it didn't matter. And the thing is, is in most cases in our company, Ethan's a way better real estate agent than I am. But the customer doesn't know that because they only know me, right? And so, so that navigating that and that transition was really hard. And then what would happen is I wouldn't give Ethan any of the tools or systems to succeed. Like, I like Ethan. I like you. We're friends. Like, you seem like you're good at sales. Like, here's 20 opportunities, man. Go, go have fun. And I would do. No, I would. I would provide no training, no information. I'd have no structure, no accountability, no process. I had a process. It was in my head, and I never delivered it to anyone else. And I'm like, ethan, why can't you convert any of these opportunities? You're like, well, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do. Right? And so that's. That was the, that was like, that was my. The early days of trying to get out of production. And looking back now is like, I didn't have the skills, I didn't have the training. I wasn't seeking out any of the right education on how to build a business, how to lead other people. And no wonder I couldn't get out of production, because I didn't. I wasn't even doing any of the right things to get out. I thought the decision to get out production was like, I'm out, you're in. Like, I thought that was like, hey, this is like, really, like, I made the decision. I'm out now. This is going to work perfect. Until it didn't. And then, and then I had to constantly rewire. And then I thought I had it right. And then I like, oh, this. And it's hard to stomach the, the. The losses because no one's going to do it your way. No one's going to do it as well. It's going to take people longer. You know, I had, you know, the thing is, is, like, I had to remind myself that I'm six years into this. Like, and I have been selling at a really high level. I've seen a lot of different things. I've got that wisdom and that market knowledge that I can't expect most people to have because of the volume that I was doing. And so, so with that, I also needed to have patience, which I'm not very good at and right. So I expect people to, like, pick it up. Right? Like, why don't you understand? I don't get it. Like, you should be able to do this right now. And so all of those things together create a very challenging situation to get out of production. And I think that's what. What happens for most is they get stuck right there and they don't actually get to the other side. They just step back in and they think, I don't know if I want to have a lot of people around here. I don't know if I'm a great leader. I'm not sure that, like, this is what I want to do. I just love selling. And then they actually never get to the next level. They step right back in because they're too afraid or they don't have a path or a blueprint to follow of, like, how do I actually get there? Right? And I've been there. You're totally lost. And it's a. You're. You're 100% out of control. Like, you're like, like this thing is a mess. Like, I don't know if I'm not. I wasn't born to run a business or maybe I'm not an entrepreneur. I might not be a leader. Like, all those thoughts are going through your head because things are crumbling every single time that you attempt to do it. And there's not a lot of information or knowledge out there of how to effectively transition into that space. And so I was just fortunate enough that as this was happening, I started meeting people that were a lot smarter and had already done different things, not even necessarily in real estate. But just scaling a business right, was a big part of it as I didn't really understand what that meant to me. High vision person. Scaling a business meant just going and buying more leads. Like, I thought that was scaling a business. I didn't know anything about training or process or people or structure any. That none of that came to mind. I thought, like, you just go get more of everything on the front end and then it's just going to. You're going to scale it on the back end and you quickly realize that, you know, that's. That's not even close to the truth. And so once I got out, once I. Once I got out the last time, finally, it was like, I'm going to sink or swim here. Like, I. My back's against the wall. I've made a commitment. I've got to figure it out. I'm terrible at hiring. I see the best in everyone. I think everyone can do the job instantly. Like, yep, you're in. I love you. Like, let's go right now. Like, so I'm hiring people that might not have the right skills. I'm also not doing them any favors because I'm giving them no education. And finally you realize, like, okay, like, the problem here is me. I'm the common denominator between every single person that hasn't succeeded. And so then you're like, all right, I got to go on this path of becoming a better person, becoming a better leader, getting educated, and doing the deep work that's required to inspire and lead other people to have success not only for themselves, but also for their community, their family, and everything else in the world. And so that's when it all changed for me. As I got beat up so many times, I'm like, I can't take anymore. Something's got to change here.

Okay, man. Lot of really good stuff in there. And you're right. There is not a lot. I mean, that was one of the reasons that I was privileged enough to be sent off on this mission to talk to people who've been. Been there or even are in the middle of it and just start opening up this conversation, like, because you're right. And I. I have a feeling that a lot of people listening are like, oh, yeah, that was me. That's me. That was me last week. Or, that was me last year. That was me three years ago. Or whatever. Like, your journey is not. I mean, it is unique, but it's not completely unique.

Oh, and that's what you also realize, too. You. You know, when you're in it, you think that your problems are so specific to you.

Totally.

Right. You're just like, no one else understands, like, well, so I'll give you one.

For my own career. So I ran marketing teams. Sorry. I created marketing campaigns inside local television stations. I'd, like, like, make TV spots and ads and things and stitch them all together into, like, a proper campaign with this thematic and has all the different, like, sequence, touch points and all these things. And then I started. I had the opportunity to start running a team of people doing the same thing. But I was kind of like a player coach, where I still also had to produce, but I also had to run the team, but no one prepared me for it. They're just like, well, we need a team leader. You're a great producer. You should run the team, and we'll give you a raise. I was like, awesome.

Sounds good.

And just like you described. And just like, so many people watching and listening, experienced. I didn't have any training. I thought it was just like the same job but a little bit more and it paid better, like, and it was just not the same job at all. And, and so the other thing you shared, you talked about having a solid foundation in making the transition, and that was more from like a market, you know, and relationship and database and like strength of reputation and brand. But then you also, you know, the missing piece from foundationally that you also described was I was really good at cranking out tons and tons and tons of deals and I had done it over a, you know, sustained period of time, but it was all in my head. And so I think part of that strong foundation is also the documentation. So like, give a little bit of color to like, how, how did you close that gap?

Yeah, I'll tell you what you just said there. That is the most overlooked piece of, I think in business in general. And it's the word process. When people hear the word process, they naturally, most people go to like corporate like, and the bureaucracy of all of that. And process doesn't necessarily mean some written, documented thing. There were a lot of processes that I had in place that were in my head. It doesn't mean I didn't have process. It just means it wasn't documented and we weren't running the company based on a written, documented process. And I think people get that confused all the time when they hear that word. They assume that means you're going to get tangled in all this stuff and can't get out and it's death by meetings. Yeah.

We need to add chapter 6B to the 852 page documented playbook.

Yes. So that's where I think, that's where I think the, the opportunity is. Is that for, for anyone, you know, tuning in? Like, a lot of this is around getting what's in the head of the team leader, the broker, owner, the visionary, and get it documented over time. Right. Because the founders in a lot of cases know a lot about the business. They have a good idea of, you know, where do we want to go, what's our purpose? Like a lot of that stuff when you're early, like a lot of that stuff is coming from the founder or some of the founding members. And that really becomes the foundation of where that company is going. And, and I, and I found for me, like getting that, that all that process down is really critical. Otherwise people are trying to read your mind and no one's real great. No one's really that good.

At that.

Right? And I think that's what I found is, like, every time that we had an issue, I'd always go back to my communication and I'd find that I was a poor communicator. Like, I would leave out details. I wasn't real clear. Everything was very abbreviated. I assumed people were catching on to what I was saying. And I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't close the loop quite right on everything. I wouldn't, you know, follow back up. And so I started realizing, like, these things were happening. And now I love having people around me that are asking specifics and getting really clear on, like, what am I actually saying? What do I mean by this? Like, what does done look like? Right? So, like, getting a little bit more specific. Specificity is a big part of all of this, right? I mean, it's really understanding how do we all. I mean, so much is like how we all communicate together, right? And so when you get a team, whether you're very small, a couple of assistants or. Or really large, like, all of this comes down to the human element. And that's the piece that I. I love about all of this because, I mean, I love the people aspect of it, and I love learning and growing and the challenges and. And being in the trenches, right. With so many great human beings of like, we've got to figure this out. And that's the. To me, like, that's the secret sauce to this. When he talked, when I talked at the beginning about, right. Seats, that also includes you, right? And so, like, what seat are you supposed to be in? Just because you are the team leader or the successful agent or the broker owner, doesn't mean you're supposed to be the visionary. Doesn't mean you're supposed to be the integrator. Right? It's really honing in on, like, what is your skill set? What are you great at? Like, what is your genius? And put yourself in that box and remove yourself from all the other ones. And. And it doesn't happen overnight. And no one has an unlimited budget, but at least have a plan that you're working towards, right? So when. I mean, forever, you know, I was in four or five boxes when we were really small, and I was doing probably one of them super well. And the other four I was terrible at. And so, like. But. But I knew that we were working towards a different level of revenue, a different level of profit to be able to go out and get the A player for that box. And you. I don't think you ever actually get there you never arrive. Right. I mean, you're just always working towards that. And then you add in, you know the business is changing and you know the business is always changing. Right. There are different needs and you got to figure out what the priorities are. You know, what you thought was a priority or a box that mattered may not matter. I mean, a prime example of that is when everything went virtual, right? Like everyone thought everything needed to be like office space in person, all this. Well then over the next several years, like office space and getting together wasn't the priority anymore. And so you may have had boxes that had a lot to do with events and gatherings and things like that, where now all of a sudden that all went virtual and the person that maybe was really good at events in person might not be the right person for hosting Zoom happy hours or get togethers or breakfasts or whatever it may be. Right. And so, so that's where you know, you, you have to stay in tune with the business as well because it has different needs and demands at different times.

Yeah. Talk a little bit about so, so getting clear on what processes are important, how to document it, how to teach it, how to hire to it, how. How have you over the years evolved, like how much of that stuff you pack up in like an onboarding thing versus how some of it trails off into like ongoing formal education. Like, because, because I can see someone taking all the stuff that they think of someone needs to know and jamming it into one package and praying that everyone A, consumes it and B, understands it and then C remembers it, which is D impossible. So like, like talk about that tension a little bit like getting people to do it the right way, the Lindol way, let's say.

That's hard. Yeah, I would say that we still don't have that completely figured out. There's so many components to what you just shared there. And I mean, it starts even before it even gets to that point. And that is, are the right people coming in? Right. So from a talent evaluation standpoint, if you have people that love accounting or love operations and you're trying to bring them into a sales real estate agent role, it's probably not going to work very well. Now there are outliers to every exception. And, and I have seen people that are introverted and very detail orientated that have been able to make real estate work. So I'm by no means making a statement that it's across the board, but if you want to give the person the best shot to succeed, put them in the spot. That they're naturally supposed to be in, right? But if you don't have the right recruiting process, the right onboarding process, the right vetting process, you may end up in a situation where you have a lot of people in a training, whether it's sales training, whether it's skills, whatever it may be, you may end up with a lot of people in the room that shouldn't be there. Therefore, your results of the training structure that you have are unlikely to succeed because you're going to have people coming in that aren't right for the job and you're going to train them, but they're not right. And so now all of a sudden you've given them a bunch of information when that's not what they're naturally gifted at and your outcome is probably not going to be the best. But whereas if you really focus on bringing in the right people for the right seats, including real estate agents, and now you bring people that are naturally gifted and it's the area where they're the best. Now you give them training and the likelihood that they're going to succeed goes up, way up. But that's then only if the training is right. So you're just. It's no different than the way that most people think about funnels and where you're at in the process of a funnel. It's the same thing here. They come in to the organization, the agents do, and then the sales training. Now here's the big question, and we've went through this a million times and there's a lot of arguments you can make for a lot of different positions on this. But you bring people in and some people are like, they need to know all the systems, right? You get an operations person or someone on that side of the business, they are going to fundamentally believe that, that new agents coming into your company must understand the systems inside and out. That could be follow up CRM, that could be any part of a tech stack or documentation or workflows or whatever it may be. But then the next thing that happens is you're like, hey, we've got this great person that understands systems inside and out, but they don't know how to sell, they don't know how to overcome objections. So now you have this sort of cart horse debate going on where you've got a new agent that is trained in highly proficient in systems but doesn't know how to sell and you hand them appointments and they can't actually get face to face, right? But then if you go sales first now they don't know anything about systems and so they can get the appointment, but then they don't know what to do when they get the appointment. Right. And so, so there's something in between both of them. Mentor programs are a very common thing. It's that, you know, there's a bunch of follow different ways that you can shadow or follow, you know, a high producing agent, assuming that high producing agent is doing it the way you want to do it as a company, right. And so they're, they're going to follow along and you know, one of the things is, you know, I do it, you know, we do it and then you do it, right? And so, and so maybe you go on three appointments and the first one is, you know, is you're doing it and they're just watching, saying nothing. And the next one you're doing it together. You're going to walk through the house and I'm going to do the presentation or whatever, mix, mix it up. And then the last one is, all right, I'm coming with, but you're doing it right. And that's how you really create that growth. And so now you have the sales training, now you have the mentorship, but then you also have the ongoing systems training, which it's just like going through that entire streamline process of a customer journey, right. Each step of the way there's something new that's going to be introduced. It's the same thing with agents, like, okay, let's get them up to speed on this. And then we know when they meet a customer now they're going to need this. We know when they get an accepted offer, we know they're going to need this, and so on and so on and so on. And so really mapping out the journey of an agent in the company is super critical. So you can find out, okay, where are the gaps in the current process when someone comes in and I think that's super important to, to evaluate and look at. And that's what I just said there is easier said than done and takes a significant amount of time. Everything that we think of and including me, takes a lot longer than I think every single time, right? Every single thing that I.

Classic visionary.

Yes. Yeah. So I think, I think that, that, you know, unpacking that training has a lot of complexity and I could even add another level to that as well, which is, okay, you brought in the right people, you gave them the right training, but if you have zero accountability, you're still probably going to have a problem, right? So if they don't know where they're running and meet most successful salespeople. They want a scoreboard. They want to know like, what are the points at? Where are my points? Where are my sales contests, what's the gamification? How am I know if I'm winning or losing? Right. They want to know those things. And so if you don't provide those, you're just another step down the journey of where your problem's going to be. Right. And so it's super complex. And, and you just, you take, you know, that's why we run in 90, 90 day increments. You take one step at a time and you just keep getting a little bit better each day. You take one step forward, one step forward, one step forward. And over time, you know, you. Pretty soon you'll have the entire thing built out.

So one thing I want to, I want to plus up there in the Cause this was like kind of, it was exciting for me the first time I heard someone articulate it that does this kind of work. So we have this customer journey, right? Like we kind of outline what are the stages of the journey, what are the stages of the. And we often stop there and just teach that to people and expect them to follow the rest. This idea of building, and you just spoke to it, this idea of building, the language I'll use is a service blueprint. In order to deliver these types of moments in these types of experiences across this journey, we need to make sure that our organization is designed to be supportive of those moments. And absent that, the idea of being able to deliver consistently across that journey is so much lower. And the layer that you added to it that's super smart is. Well, you don't necessarily have to teach everyone everything up front. You can teach it immediately in front of these experiences. And then of course, from an accountability perspective, we reinforce it over time. Last kind of big zone I want to hit here before I have some fun questions for you to wrap us up. Hiring. I mean, this goes back to all the training stuff. The first piece is if you have the wrong people in the room at the time of the initial training is just all broken. So one thing I want to ask you about. I know you use multiple personality tests. I think the most common one is disc. I would love for you to give a quick go to when did you layer these things on? Which ones are they and why do you like these as well or better than any of the other ones?

Yeah, so assessments are, you know, are a big conversation. There of course are a lot of People that think you can't assess human beings at all. And then there are others that, you know, run their entire, you know, business or life on assessments. I think assessments get you close, but that doesn't tell the entire story. But there are different parts of assessments that do different things. And not everyone succeeds at a job just because of their skills. Some. It's their heart, some are. It's something that happened and they grew up. Someone may have said, you can't succeed. You might not be able to do this. Some sort of chip on their shoulder that's like, I'm gonna show them I can do it. And I truly believe that anyone can do anything they want if they have that. Like, if they. If they're like, I'm gonna prove them wrong and that thing is sitting with them every single day. Like, that person just won't stop until they win. Right? And so it really. Understanding what some of those things are, are super important. But then building profiles, right? And building profiles for the job. And now I would say, I would add this, you know, from an employment side of things, you know, there are a lot of local laws, and I would highly encourage anyone to, you know, to talk to an attorney about what you can and can't do when it comes to assessments. And, you know, if they're for informational purposes or whatever, I. I would just recommend that we. We've obviously run and vetted everything through that. And so, you know, my answer is going to be slightly different based on the, you know, the. The recommendations that we received. I just want to say that because I think some people don't think that way about them. And the word assessments is kind of thrown loosely around there. And they're all sorts of different levels of assessments, and some are, you know, very light and surface level, and some are really deep. And what you do with that information varies in different places. So, but. But really connecting the dots between multiple things, and I think that's what it's really important is understanding, like, who someone is so that you can have conversations in an interview around what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses? Like, tell me more about that. Like, I, you know, it. It guides you to make sure that, like, you're making the right decision, because there's nothing worse than making the wrong hire, and it's actually worse for them than it is the company. Right? There's. I mean, I know from my life being in a place where I'm super uncomfortable or I'm not good at something is a miserable feeling, right. Whether or not I say anything about it is, is, is debatable because I see a lot of people throughout life that are in, in a place that there might not be in where they really want to be, but they don't say anything. And so you'll end up in a situation where you might put someone in a, in a box in a company and they might not say anything even though they're miserable. Right. And especially if it's someone that's newer that you don't know as well, you might not have as good of a read on, on them. You might not be able to identify that they're really unhappy. And I think the goal and the purpose of assessments and all of this stuff around human beings is to help people get to their happy place. Right. And if you can do that and you can get people where they're really fulfilled and they have joy and passion, that type of cohesiveness will last forever. The companies are just, in a lot of cases, companies could potentially be temporary, but the friendships and the relationships that are built when you have people that are in that space lasts forever. And so the more that time that we can spend on the front end of understanding who we are, and that starts with me, like everyone that, that, that is interviewing for the company needs to understand what my strengths and my weaknesses are as well. Right. So we have to lead from the front in a very vulnerable state of like, hey, here's where I'm really good and here's where I'm not so good and here's likely the way that you'll want to communicate with me for us to work well together. Like, I think it's really important to have those open conversations because the best teams that I've ever been on are where people are super self aware who they are. And, and the ones that, that I've been on throughout my life that aren't so good are where everyone's putting a mask on and pretending to be someone they're not. Right. And, and, and at some point that gets exposed, whether that's, you know, unhappiness, whether that's someone that quits or, you know, moves on. And so I'm just a big firm believer of really diving into assessments to have those vulnerable conversations up front so that everyone's on the same page and all the cards are on the table so there's no guessing. And I think being in an environment where you can get to that confrontation first, not in a disrespectful way, not in a super uncomfortable way, but like, let's have A healthy conversation around how we are able to do this together. Right? How are we able to connect? How are we able to like, really change the world, you and I, Right. And I think the deeper you can get there, the, the, the, the possibilities are endless. Right? And that's, and when you get to that place, you're, you're, you're likely have earned the trust, right? Which is, you know, you look at, you read Lynion's five Dysfunctions of a Team. I mean, you look at those components of a team, like those things are must haves. If you don't have that, like, and things are broken, your company isn't getting to the next level. Like, it's just. There's no possible way. You just got to be really deep with, with all that stuff. And I've learned a lot about myself and I've seen a lot of breakthroughs in other people when they've been like, in a lot of cases, just feel very justified for who they are. Right? Like, yeah, that is me. That is me. There's a lot of people that don't really know who they are in the world. And the more that you can create visibility into that now all of a sudden you've got people that are super empowered to go like, you know what? That's me. Like, that's where, that's my lane. That's what I do. Yep, that's me. That's not me. And the more you can have that, that communication piece is, is everything like, it's. And when you see people really start to make that transition to truly understanding who they are, it's where all the breakthroughs are.

So these things are tools. We need to use them not as like, what is the result, but what does that result mean for us in our relationship and our continued learning and growth? That's fantastic, man. You've been super gener. Generous, as your hat says. For people listening, his hat says be generous. As I mentioned, off the top, super generous with your time. I appreciate it. Just a few fun pairs of questions and you only need to answer one of the two and you already kind of teased a couple of them, so. So the first one is, what is your favorite team to root for besides your own real estate team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of besides your own real estate team?

Best team that I've ever been a member of.

I would say four favorite team to root for.

Yeah, I mean, you, you. I love that you ask me two questions and say I can answer one when you know, that I would just answer all three of them. So I like the specificity of that. So the, the big one for me is that back in sixth grade, I played for a basketball team as a traveling basketball team. And we traveled all over the, all over the country. We were like, unbelievably talented. I barely made the team in my eyes. I had no organized sort of background in basketball. I played at the park, you know, at recess of, of elementary and the start of middle school. And I tried out for the best team, one of the best teams in the country. And I made the team. It was. I still to this day remember the shots and the things that happened in that tryout. And I don't know how any of it happened. I mean, it was unbelievable the things I was doing. I was like, wow. Like, and I remember making that team and it, it all changed for me because it was the first time in my life that I'd really been a part of like, crazy level of winning. Like, I mean, we would run teams out of the gym and we win by like 50 or 60. Like our, our center, this is sixth grade. Our center was six, six in sixth grade. Throwing all you dunks, like just throw it up. 360. Like it was crazy. And for everyone that, that, that understands basketball, we would full court press the entire game and our in, our center would be on the ball at 6 5, like covering almost every single passing lane with his arms and hands. And we would then trap him in the corners and we would just run. I mean, we would run all out. Our coach believed that you never stop. Like, you, like, we don't sub anyone in. We don't like, pull back on the throttle. We actually hit the gas harder when we're up by 50. Like, it was crazy. Like, I mean, some of it was maybe a little excessive, right? I mean, you're looking at the other teams and like, they can't even get the ball past half court and you're just scoring one after another. But it was that level of intensity and winning that I, that's where I first experienced like, those feelings of like, this is what winning like, feels like. And you know, and then throughout, you know, after that, you know, throughout my journey, I mean, I played for that team and then everyone kind of went their different directions and different schools, so it all split up. But then I was on some teams that weren't as good. And so then I started to sort of learn how to lose too, which sucks. No one likes the feeling of lose, but the lessons to Unpack from the losses. There's a lot more valuable information in my eyes to get from losing than there is from winning. I mean, winning's an amazing feel. And, you know, all the different chemicals that are released when you're like, yes, I'm holding that. Another trophy. We had trophies. Like, I had so many trophies in my room, I couldn't take on any more trophies. I mean, there were medals, trophies, like, anything you can think of. We were winning all of them. And then all of a sudden, I got to another team. I was like, wow. Like, whoa, we're not as good. Like, we don't have that six, five, you know, center to put on the ball. Like, we don't. We can't actually press the whole game because we don't have the right people. And so I started to see, like, the things that we mentioned, you know, on. On this today. Like, I started to see, like, the. The cracks. I started to see the problems that we had some with me, too. Like, all of a sudden I started, you know, needing to get in boxes that I wasn't really good at. Right. And so it all started changing, and then it's. Momentum's such a crazy thing because you can go really crazy with momentum and losing, and you can also do it with winning. And so I saw things start to sort of spiral out of control after that team on the losing side because they were missing components of the people and the leadership. The coach. Right, the coaching. And. And then I found that again. So that was sixth grade. Then in eighth grade, I found it again with. With another coach, and it was really, like, phenomenal. Like, changed my life.

And.

And we won, but it was a different level of winning. Like, it was. There was more empathy. There was, like, more, like, There was, like, more purpose to the winning. The other one was just like, we're gonna run you all over. And this one was like, we're gonna run you over, but it's gonna be very graceful, and we're gonna pick you up at the end. And so I got to see different leadership styles as well. And it's also why, like, I went to college to be a teacher and graduate with two degrees to be. To teach is because I saw what mentorship and coaching did for my life, and I wanted to do that same thing. And now fast forward, and I am doing that same thing in a different way. That isn't what is, you know, I would say is the traditional, like, in the classroom type teacher. But that's always what has drove me. And so throughout this entire Thing we've talked, you know, a lot about people and structure and assessments and all these things, but there's also like, what is it at your core that you're passionate about, right? What is it that you like that, that you're going to do on this planet to change the world? And for me, like, I love educating and giving back to people. Like that like drives me, ignites me. Like that's what I like. And so you couldn't put someone in an educational coaching box if they didn't have a passion for that, right. They wouldn't get any energy from it. And so, so it's funny how like life comes full circle, right, that being on that team and then now here I am today. A lot of those lessons I've, I've, I've taken with me for where we are today and where we're going in the future.

So good. I love the layer there. I love the humility lessons learned in between the two winning teams and the difference in the two styles of winning. So much good stuff in there. By the way, for folks listening in your podcast player, that is why you have a 30 or 60 second back button. Click that thing a couple of times. You can hear that again right now. What is one of your most frivolous purchases or what is a cheapskate habit that you hold on to even though you probably don't need to?

Oh, frivolous purchase. Oh, I gotta, this is a good one. This is, this is a good one. So a couple weeks ago I went, I went fishing with some friends down in, in California. We went tuna fishing. So I, I get on the boat and you know, one of the guys has got a Starlink WI FI box, but like nothing I've ever seen before. It's like, I mean it's got rivets in it. It's like fancy, you know, like high density plastic. And it's like just a knob, just a switch on the side. And I'm like, I didn't even know what it was. I said, well what is that? It looked like, it looked like a fish fillet board. Like you would fillet fish on it. Like, I didn't know, like, looked like a cutting board almost. He's like, oh, that's a Starlink. And I went, what? So I started looking at it and I was like, I need one of those. Like I got, I gotta, I have to have that thing. So he referred me to the company that built this housing around the Starlink satellite. And so I'm just a few days away. They shipped it and I'm going to have it shortly. And I'll. I'll have Starlink Internet for the couple of trips that I make in the ocean, I'll have high speed Internet or when I go up north to the cabins and different things. I, I have this now little Starlink box. And I, I never thought in a million years I'd have a Starlink Internet with Internet at home, but for some reason in that moment, fishing, I'm like, all right, I got to have that.

Yeah, really good. How do you prefer to keep learning, growing and developing? Or how do you prefer to enjoy some resting, relaxation and recharging?

I mean, fishing's the big one for me. I love to fish. Everyone's got to find that thing, right? Whether it's a hobby or something that they are truly passionate about, that just gets their mind off of everything else going on in the world. And the reason why I love fishing so much is it, it takes all of my attention. So, you know, high vision, brain, always going, ideas, all kinds of things. Like when I'm in that moment of fishing, like I'm just out in nature and I'm focused on trying to catch fish, and it's like everything just sort of shuts down and I'm just in this very calm state, very focused and, and it, I just enjoy having that, that sort of refresh time to do that. It recharges me. And I think I've seen, and I would just share this. I've seen this in a lot of parents where you have kids and so much of your time is consumed around taking care of the kids until they go to wherever they go after high school, whether that's college, where they go right into a career, whatever that may be. And now their entire identity and purpose was around this person. And they've neglected any hobbies whatsoever. And now they're trying to find themselves. And so I just share with everyone, wherever you're at, it's super critical to take care of yourself too, right? The thing that plays in my head and has forever, and it's the easiest one I can think of, is getting on the airplane and putting your oxygen mask on first, right? And if you don't put yours on, how can you take care of anyone else? And so having some scheduled time away and being super diligent around making sure that you do it, because high performers have a tendency to just reschedule the passion in the hobby things like, oh, yeah, I was gonna go here, but instead I'll just go do this and so making sure that you protect that space to recharge is critical because, you know, a lot of people, especially with everything that's happened in the world and, and going on, like, you can burn out really quick. And so it's critical to have those. That. That time for yourself too, man, with.

You completely on that. For me, it's just walking around outside or running around outside.

I love it too.

Like.

Like, that's probably where I'm going shortly. Yeah. Awesome.

For people who've spent over an hour with us, Chris, and again, you've been very generous. Thank you. If people have gotten to this point, they may want to learn more about you or about your team or connect with you. Where would you send folks to follow up on this conversation?

Yeah, so I have like a URL connectwithkl.com that has all of my, you know, all my social media handles and all the information that anyone can reach out to me. I always love when people reach out to me. You know, I think when I was early on in my career, I always thought like, reaching out to someone that I was like, bothering or as a burden. But what I love about it is, like, when people reach out to me, I learn too. Like, I mean, I don't have it all figured out and there's still. I've got a lot of things that we still have to get dialed in, a lot of things in my. That I've got to figure out and grow. And so, you know, having conversations with other people and staying connected to the communities is important to me too. So I would highly encourage anyone that might have had a thought or maybe said like, oh, I didn't, you know, he didn't really close the loop on that. Or I wish he would have went deeper there. Like, you know, I, I'd love any messages that, you know, that anyone that's. They got something that they're like, I wish I wanted to go deeper here. Like, send me a message, I'd be happy to help.

Awesome. Appreciate it. That's connectwithkl.com that'll be immediately adjacent. If you're watching on YouTube, it's in the description. If you're listening to podcast app, it's in the description of this episode. Connectwithkl.com Chris, you are awesome. I appreciate you so much. I hope you have a great afternoon where however you decide to spend it and. And go twins.

That's right. Thank you.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Team os.

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