014 More Deals From Your Database With (Or Without) An ISA with Travis Halverson

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With an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team.

Here's your host, Ethan Butte. For insights into starting, growing and optimizing your real estate team, we're talking with Travis Halvorson. A few fun facts before we get started. He's the person other people turn to when they want to learn about the inside sales function inside a real estate business. He coaches and consults on the ISA function with chat Black digital and with easy home search. And he's the co host of the Conversion Code podcast. Thanks so much for talking Team OS today, Travis.

Thank you so much. I'm actually super excited to be here. It's excited for this opportunity as well, so thank you.

Yeah, no problem. From my understanding, you've heard or watched some of these episodes. By the way, do you prefer to watch or listen to podcast episodes?

Well, listen, I can't, as we were talking about earlier, but like the whole video aspect of it, like, I. I don't know why, just because of like my whole twitch background and stuff, like just watching people even play video games now. I just can't do that either. I mean, anymore, but like listening to it. I'm always in the car, driving, always different places. So I have to have something playing and I'd much prefer a podcast and music right now. I don't know why, it's just kind of my thing.

Yeah, same. I kind of ebb and flow on that a little bit too. And it's. It depends on what I'm like fascinated in at the time and what I want to learn about. And for me it's usually like walking around housework, yard work, shoveling snow is what's going on right now at my house now.

And then I. The snow. That's why I moved. I moved away from Idaho Falls for a reason. I can't do snow. I moved literally 35 hours away just to get away from all of that.

Love it. So you're in Myrtle Beach.

Yep. Myrtle beach now. Yep. I love it here.

Good for you. All right, so here we go. You know, this one's coming. The rest of it will be an open conversation about inside sales. But what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

To me personally, Accountability. You have to have accountability or you won't be a high performing team. Just because 10, I mean, I hate to say it, but 1099, independent contractors. I mean, they're there. Like I think a lot of people really choose that whole route just because they like the freedom of being an independent contractor. And if you don't have someone really holding you accountable, it's really self accountability. And not a lot of people are born with self accountability. I mean it's something that you kind of need someone pushing you to do. I mean it's something that I really need a lot of the times. It's kind of why I took the role that I took because I like having my day to day structured out and I like being able to send my metrics to someone and someone being like that's exactly what we needed from you. You know what I mean? Like that's exactly what it is. And I was able to hit those things. As an agent you really have to have that self drive. And I think that's one of those things that comes from the very top of a team. Like a CEO, team leader, Team leader level accountability for sure. It's number one thing.

Yeah, really good. There's so many layers to it and you already hit on a couple of them. But this idea of doing what you say you're going to do not just for other people but for yourself is really the key. I think that's where it starts. It's like this self accountability.

Oh yeah.

When you make promises to yourself and you don't fulfill them, it just starts breaking everything down and there and then, you know, as other people start asking for or expecting things of you because of the structure and try to hold you accountable to it, it's gonna be even more difficult. I think it does start with the self. So I appreciate that. How did you get into real estate broadly and maybe some more specifically how did you find yourself in an ISA function?

So when I was in college I got like, I guess My, my second job, my first job was with Target, but my second job was with DirecTV. At the time when DirecTV was a thing, I took like inbound tech calls and like just phone calls, just back to back to back. There was no pause. Like they would be like we're in the red, you gotta get on the phone. You know what I mean? Like that's what it was. And I ended up working my. Cause I didn't want to be on the phones at the time. I really didn't. I did not like taking those calls or enjoyed taking those calls. So I did whatever I could with to get off the phones and I stepped into a trainer role. Um, it was a program ready trainer. PRT is what it was called at the time. And I stepped into that position and did it out of the fact that I didn't want to be like that guy on the phones just because I didn't enjoy it. So I didn't. I didn't do it because I was like, I want to train people. I did it because I just didn't want to have to do what I was supposed to do. So when I ended up stepping into that role and doing that sort of thing, the more I started to really enjoy what the calling aspect was, and the more I started training people to do it, the more I realized, like, there was, there was a good side of it. Like, you know, I mean, there was. You're really helping people. You're really enjoying helping people solve their problems. And when you help someone solve a problem, like, you felt that relief, you know what I mean? So when we ended up getting bought out by AT&T and turning into AT&T DirecTV, I ended up traveling a lot to like, Costa Rica and El Salvador, where I spent a year over there. And I trained call centers. I actually helped build call centers of like, hundred plus people to just start taking those calls as well. And like, I started doing that. And that's where that whole aspect of the phone call comes from in me. Like, that's why I don't shy away from the phone call. That's why I enjoy that lead generation side. But when I found out that there was a position at my. Not the team that I'm on now, but my most recent team a couple years ago, my mom was a part of that team as a transaction coordinator for about 16 years. And she was like, hey, why don't you just come over and be an isa? I'm like, well, what's an isa? Had no idea what it was. And so then the CEO reached out and had a conversation with me. He's like, you'll be able to make this much money, this what you'll be able to do. And I was like, that sounds awesome. I was like, I'm making no money from getting yelled at on the phone. I was like, you're telling me these people don't yell at me? They're like, no, not at all. They just. They want to buy a home. I'm like, I can do that. I can help them with that for sure. So, yeah, that's kind of like my journey in a nutshell.

Love it. I love that you started, of course, on the phones, but then had that trainer dynamic already, because it just. Your story just Makes so much sense to me. I feel like just to kind of like, I don't know if it's elephant in the room. I don't want to overstate it. But like in general, call center and lots of phone calls in general doesn't have a great reputation necessarily. I think, um, I think a lot of real estate organizations position it as maybe a temp or a part time thing. Like, well, this is where you're going to start and then you're going to go into something else. And then of course this idea of a call center, like, oh yeah, and then a call. And then I'm just in some kind of a call center. Like I know just from having heard you talk about it and even where we are in this conversation right now that it doesn't have to be that way. And my gut or my guess is that's part of what drives you is like there can be a better culture around all of this. Speak to kind of like the, some of the negative connotations of call centers and high volume calling just like right off the top of this conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. And so the thing about it in the way that I always look at it and you're absolutely right like that then initial position when you get into real estate. I was always told that being an ISA was like the stepping stone into real estate. Like that was it like there was going to be no career that I could make out of being in isa. I was told that from the very beginning. Like, oh man, are you getting your license soon? Are you going to go sell houses? Is that what you're going to do? And I was just like, I don't, I don't want to do that. I was like, is that, is that what I have to do? Like, can I not stay in this position forever? Like, well, you can go make this much money if you just become an agent. I was like, yeah, but I don't want to. Like, I say it as a joke. I was like, I don't want to sit in my car like 8 o' clock at night, like eat a Nutri grain bar, like a Hot Pocket, waiting for a client to show up. I like, I like my 8 to my 8 to 5 and answer the phone calls on the weekend or after hours. Like I'm more than happy to take a 20 minute phone call and get paid for it or a five minute phone call and get paid for it. You know what I mean? And that's what I always tell people is like, that's, that's what I enjoy to Do I like to do that. I like to sit at my desk and help people. But I always say it comes from when you help a client find their home, as an agent, you're really helping that client find their home, like, you know what I mean? And like that's filling up a cup. Like that's filling up someone's cup of happiness, love, whatever way you want to look at it. But as an isa, I can help not only the client find their agent, but I can also help that agent better their life as well. Because anything, anytime that I take setting that appointment for that agent is time that that agent was able to take. Doing other things in their life, whether it was focusing on other deals to make sure it goes through or focusing time on their family and friends, that sort of thing was able to help. So I'm able to fill up two cups in a sense. So that's kind of my whole mindset behind it all. And that's why I always think like, it's just got a bad rap, but like the more you work at it, the easier it becomes for you. And it's like you just do the same consistent action over and over again. You're just helping people every day.

Awesome. We're going to get into some of the very specific tactics, but I want to stay here a little bit high level and I want to start first by calling out two things I really enjoyed about what you just shared there. One is the idea not just of listening, learning and helping a client, but this idea of putting an agent in their best position to win. You're taking something off the plate of an agent that either A, they don't have time for and or B they don't enjoy and or C aren't good at. And so this idea, this is the thing that's so compelling about the team model is specialists at various stages of the relationship and, and transaction and around various functions that need to happen for the team to be successful. And this is one of those specialties. And, and a lot of agents would really be better off if this was not on plate. The other thing I really enjoyed was the call to Nutrigrain bars and Hot Pockets in your car, 8 o' clock at night. It's very visual, I can see it. And, and it's a thing, it's real. So you actually, when you started, when you created your llc, you called it just an isa.

Yeah. Yes.

Which I think is a playful take on the same spirit of like, oh, you're just an isa.

Like, yeah, that was always that that thing that I always just would kind of like refer back to is like, I would kind of use it though as like a place of, like, I guess, comfort. And the fact that, like, oh, I don't need to know this. I'm just an isa. Like, you know what I mean? I don't need to be. I'm not responsible for that. I'm just an isa. I get started out from that point of like, oh, man, I can hide behind that as like, oh, I don't need to know really what interest rates are right now. Like, I'm just an isa. I just have to have a conversation with these people and just help them get to an agent where they need to know that stuff. But then it kind of turned into one of those things where it's like, wow, not a lot of people are just ISAs. You know what I mean? It's like, wow, so you've been an ISA for six years. I'm like, yeah, like, I guess I'm just an isa. But like, you have a Travis. You're more than that. And the fact of you do all these other things, like, you help other people and like, you are able to help teams, you're able to help agents, you're able to help dsa. It's like, that is what it comes down to. And it's like, yeah, I guess, yeah, that's really what comes from. So. But yeah, that is my. The name of my company is just at isa. So I mean, that was the LLC that I was able to set up, but I just did it because that was at the first fubcon. I even said it on stage and people were like, you're just the ISA guy. And I was like, oh, yeah, that is me. That is who I am. Yep, that's it. So I kind of coined that term.

So love it thing what I want to do now for like a few minutes is have you give some definition to. To inside sales in general isa and then maybe walk through and we could do this in stages. You don't have to do it all in one response, but like walk through a little bit of like, what the date, a day to day, week to week when you were an ISA or some of the ISAs that you've. You've led and guided. What does a day to day look like for an isa? And then what does it look like day to day, week to week when you are a leader of a team of ISAs. So give a little definition, then walk through kind of like what the job looks like for an isa and then eventually for an ISA team leader.

Yeah, for sure. So really what it came down to is, like, especially me as an isa, where I was always paid off of, like, the percentage of a closing. I mean, it never really shut off for me, which is always why, like, my expectations and standards really are kind of high for the position. Just because, like, I know there's a lot of ISAs that are just like, Friday hits, they're done. You know what I mean? Like, at five o' clock hits, they're done. I'm just like, well, I'm paid a percentage off of a closing. Like, it's never done. You know what I mean? This isn't just a. This isn't a base salary job for me. This is a. This is a sales job. And a lot of people kind of tend to forget that. So, I mean, I always try and push that towards people and kind of educate them on that of like, yeah, that's what it is. And they're like, well, we all don't have a Travis who just has that motivation to do so. And I'm like, hey, that's fine, but you got to just make sure that they understand what it is from the very beginning. And, like, these are the standards in place, and that's how I've always had a position to me is like, these are the expectations that need to be met as this position. See, it was one of those things where I was obligated to answer my phone. Like, I see it pop up on my phone, and I have, like, when a sign call came in at night, like, you know what I mean? Like, it had dollar signs. I made it show dollar signs. I mean, it said, answer me. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have money calling me right now. I have to answer this. Like, that was something. I even talked to one of my clients today, and I said, I want you to change that number in your phone to that. Because you look at it and you realize, like, oh, man, it's just a normal number you're not gonna answer. But if you look at that number, that's a sign call number, and you see it says, like, answer me, dollar signs. You're so likely to answer that phone call because, you know, and you put money towards that and you realize and that your brain switches and, like, you're like, oh, man, I should answer this. So that's always one of those things that, as a lead ISA, I wanted to instill into the ISAs underneath me of like, hey, do this exact same thing. You'll never go hungry. You'll never be. You'll always be fine in this position. And that's that speed to lead aspect of it that I talk about and making sure that you're always available because you are being the keeper of the leads. You're that first initial person that talks to all the leads when they come in the database. Like, that's just who you are and what you're going to do. And I always say that to people as like, if I was to step out of being an ISA leader, like, the next person is going to preach that same thing that I said because I want them to understand that's where it really comes from. Like, that's where you win. Speed to lead, speed to response, speed to relationship. Those are the three things that you really have to focus on. And that's just three again, it's speed to lead, speed to response, and speed to relationship. It's one of those things that you really want to make sure that you double down on and make sure that those are the things that you're really doing at a high level and hit a coach. And if you just do that, that's something that you just memorize. Like, that's something that I have always said over the last six years. Those are those things that we're supposed to really focus on. And all ISAs coming into that, they. It's just something that they'll hear me say thousands of times. You know what I mean? Because you hear it over and over again. You don't realize what it is until you realize that, like, wow, I missed that opportunity because I didn't respond to them. Or I missed that opportunity because I didn't call them quick enough or I didn't answer the phone fast enough. Just little things like that. And you'll. You'll realize because, like, I've seen so many missed opportunities because of that. So that's just one of those things that I like to understand as the ISA rule.

What I'm hearing, speed delete is like, obviously new lead comes in and we want to do, say, a call, text and email, and we want to do that really fast, which is now the consumer expectation. I get freaked out when I fill something out or I buy something online and I don't get the confirmation that it happened within like a minute. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, you know, it doesn't have to be so. So, like, this is the consumer expectation. So I get the speed to lead piece is speed to response. Like when someone reaches out or responds and wants to connect. Like, is that farther down the line than the initial lead and then is in by speed to relationship. Are you speaking, you know, engaging with the database in general, or am I misunderstanding that? I want you to break those three things down.

Speed to lead really comes down to when a lead registers on your website exactly what you said. Whatever the source came in, whatever the flow it came in, when they did something, they put their information somewhere. It's a speed delete as like an automated email or automated text message. Something goes out. And that's what I always come from. And people are gonna, people are gonna burn me for this. But I, I don't necessarily believe that you should be calling at the very, very, very, very, very beginning. The email goes out, the text message goes out. You give them within the first five minutes to respond to those two things. Because the thing is, if they respond back and my first initial text message goes out and it asks them for their preferred method of communication, like I'm asking them what they prefer to talk. If they prefer to talk to me via text or email, perfect. I won't call you and bug you, but if you say, if you don't respond to me, then I'm calling you, because then you might want to talk on the phone. You know what the thing is, I never just wanted to make the assumption of that, because I can tell you, Ethan, nobody woke up this morning and says, I cannot wait for Travis Halverson to call me. Nobody says that. Nobody says that. And no person that puts their information is, wow, I can't wait for that person to call me. You know what I mean? But if they can respond to a text message and say, oh, I prefer to talk via text, it's like finding your love language with a client. You know what I mean? It's like everybody has their own way of doing things and they all have their way of communication. And I want to make sure that I do it the way that they want it. It's not my right to determine how they want to communicate with me. Now if they ghost me on one of those other communication methods, then they're getting a phone call from me. But like I said, that's just the way that I've always looked at it and positioned it as. But yeah, speed delete is something that we're an automated. Something needs to go out and talk to them. If you don't have any automation, I mean, you gotta be very good at what you do. Like you, you get a notification, you're literally manually sending the text Message in the email. Like, you gotta be fast.

Yeah. And you also want it to feel like a little bit natural. I mean, you wanna honor the speed. Delete this idea of like three things going on. It reminds me of woof.com, the office. I don't know if you saw that episode.

Oh, yeah, I've. My. My family, die hard Office fans.

Yeah. So like, like, that's not. That's not a thing. And I also appreciate the call to like your preferred channel speak to speed to response. When you say that, what do you mean?

Whenever you send anything out to anyone, you should be under the mindset that they're going to respond to you within the next 30 seconds. Always. Like, that's. If you're sending something to someone, you should be in a place ready, willing and able to respond to that. Because that's just rude. You know what I mean? Like, you don't just send. I don't just. Like, it's like the whole mindset and it sounds really bad, but like it's the whole thing of like when I send you a text message, I say, hey, can we talk? And they say, oh, what? Like, what's it about? And then you don't hear from me for four hours. Like, what do you think that person's doing? Like, you know what I mean? Like, why, what was the point of the text message to begin with? Like, yeah, of course we can talk. I'm calling you now. And it's like, but then I don't hear for you for four hours. Like, you can't do that to someone. That's just not normal. That's not natural. That's not how humans want to communicate. No person wants to talk that way. And like, that's the place that I always come from. I do a lot of that. Like, my mindset comes from those places. I like, how do I. Would I be okay if I send a text message to someone to get a response back five hours later? Like, probably not. So if I send a text message or I send an email or I make a phone call, I should be in a place where that I am ready to take that call back or respond to that text message, like within the first five minutes or respond to that email within the first five minutes. Because that's just natural. That's just how it should be be. That's why I don't like the whole. There's such a thing as too much automation, like automated drip campaigns and automated text campaigns and things like that. I get that they go out, they're there to help. But you better have someone there that's ready to answer to them if they respond back to you. Because then it just looks like a robot and you don't want that. Especially in this game of real estate where it's relationship matter.

Yeah, man, I love that call. I, you know, for me, you know, I came up as a marketer, not like serving real estate folks, but not in the real estate business directly. And built a ton of campaigns, including a lot of automated sequences. And as I went further in my career, slash, as the all of this technology matured a little bit, the more I would break the sequences down into shorter pieces and make them very specific to a particular type of engagement. So this idea of setting up like a, you know, an 18 month nurture sequence in my mind is a little bit silly.

It's insane.

I like three or four or eight touch sequences over a 30 day period of time. And because something else happens or because their status fell to a particular thing like this became true, whereas this remains true. That's false. And this number is between this range, therefore it's going to initiate this thing to try to move them back over to another like so like shorter, more modular and with the whole goal. And that's why I like your speed to response with the whole goal of just all of this stuff is just to produce a conversation.

Exactly, exactly. That's. I mean you're building out a lot of your campaigns for conversation, not for like action. I mean a lot of the times people always ask that like, oh, send them over listing alerts. It's like I use my listing alerts to get some sort of reaction from. That's why I text it to them. I'd send them a link and say, hey, let me know what you think about these properties. You know, I thought of you and I saw these. Let me know what you think. Whether or not that's templated, that can be fine. But the thing is, is you are still sending something one to one, you know what I mean? And you're having that and you're hoping that they're responding to you, you know what I mean? You're hoping that they click on that. That's a form of engagement, you know what I mean? And like there's a lot of that stuff that people don't realize is like, wow, man, we sent out a hundred thousand text messages yesterday, we got so many replies. I'm like, okay, how long is it gonna take you to respond to all those things? So like the thing is like when you're responding to number eight, 900. And it's been three days later. Like, it's just. It's silly. You know what I mean? Do things in, like, do things in moderation, but at the same time, you want to do it with, like, with intention. You want to make sure that you're really. Because, like, a lot of those people don't realize that, like, oh, man, look at our database. It's popping off. We're getting all these responses. I'm like, cool. Who's talking to them? Who's responding to those? Who's making sure that those people, especially when you send them a text that says, hey, is this no longer Ethan? And he says, yes, it is. And all of a sudden, four days later, we're getting to. Awesome, Ethan. Great. Were you still looking at. It's like, what are you doing? Like, I don't understand that.

Totally off. Are we dwelling now in the concept of speaking speed to relationship? This idea of being a real person developing some rapport? Is that what you mean by speed to relationship is like, when can we actually click and feel like we're actively communicating here and we're kind of beyond the automation? Or how do you think about speed to relationship?

Yeah, no, you said it perfect. Like, when. As speed relationship is, there's like a statistic and I always butcher it. I don't necessarily know if it's real, but I always joke around and say, like, I think it's like 75% of stats are always just made up in general. So. But I think it's like 45% of clients will use the first agent that they meet face to face with the first person that they feel as if that is my. That is my agent, I'm going to use them. So the first person that can make a connection one way or another, whether it's through phone call, whether it's through text message and email, someone that can really get off the surface level of just one or two text messages deep, that can really get to understand their motivation, that is the relationship. Now they feel much. It's much more likely that they will actually use you as an agent or as like as an isa. They'll use your team, they'll use your brand. You know what I mean? So the sooner that you can get to that and really uncover their wins, like their wants, their interests, their needs, like, the sooner that you can do that, the easier it becomes for your journey. Regardless of their buying today or 10 years from now, they know that they have a relationship with Travis Halverson and that they're going to buy with Travis Halverson in the future, you know what I mean? Especially when I put them on, find out all their crazy things that are happening in their lives. And I know that they're feeling four years out from buying, but guess what, you're now on a, you're getting the listing orders now for four years and every single time they're going to see my name. They're going to know no matter what, Travis is my dude. And we're going to, we're going to work with Travis. Another agent reaches out in the future. Like, no, no, no, I already got a guy, I already got a guy in that area. Travis, he's got it. So yeah, you know what I mean? Like they don't want to have to keep re hashing conversations with agent after agent after agent. They're like, nope, Travis heard me out first. He understands all of this stuff. This is great. So that's, that's kind of what it means to have a speed relationship. You know what I mean? That's kind of where I come from.

Really good thoughts on video in this process or AI. I know those are dramatically different but like just forward looking technology. Like what are you excited about? What is the difference? What is the meaningful difference at like here at the start of 2024? Like what is the meaningful difference of AI versus automation sequences? Any other tech that you're excited about right now?

Well, I told you about when you sent me a video back and I was freaked out because I didn't know if you were real or not. And I was like, I replied you and you sent me an email back and it was you on and you're saying my name and everything. I was like, I saw this video. Someone did a video like this where they were saying the name and it was very human. Like, and I'm like, hold on a second. So I mean I'm excited for stuff like that to come. I mean not because like I will never know what's real and what's not real, but in the fact that like that will help you get a point across and you will be able to sell more houses and you will be able to help more people and you will be able to do those things. You'll be able to be in places, in a sense you'll be able to be in like multiple places at once. Especially when you are growing as an agent or you're growing as a team. That stuff is exciting because like I said, a lot of agents just are looking for leverage that AI helps Agents give back time to their families. Being an agent is not a, not a fun. I mean it's not a, it's not a glorious job. I mean it is a glorious job when you help people find their dream home and things like that. But I mean it's a lot of hours. Like it's not a 40 hour a week job by any means necessary. And I understand that. And especially as an ISA who will always say that I've never sold a home before, which I haven't. So I don't necessarily know like what they go in on the days in, day out of it. But I know that AI can give back to the agent time with their family and their loved ones. I hate seeing families not have time with their family because their, their dad was out showing a home, their mom was out showing a home, someone was out showing a home in their life that took them away from the dinner table. You know what I mean? Like that, that sucks and that pains because the thing is, is the more that they can use AI to leverage that stuff out so they can give back time in their life, like that's, that's huge. Like that's why I always try and push people. Just use things like chat gbt, like just even use that to respond to text and emails. Because when you're over here trying to chicken peck and formulate a text message, it's very easy to just use ChatGPT to do it for you. And it sounds better than you and you know what I mean, it sounds better than me. So it's like, why not use that stuff to better your life? So I mean, that's what I'm excited for.

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There's not any really like actual like product and or service that like I have like really used. I mean I try to keep my life very simple. I'm not the whole shiny object person where I'm like, oh, look at this one, this one, this one does this one. And I'm like, oh, guess what, ChatGPT is fine for me right now. So it's like I just use those things to give back time in my day because I don't want to have to have 5,000 conversations. I can use ChatGPT to really help me formulate my day and like respond back to a lot of people. So that's why I try and coach agents to do as well.

Yeah, I appreciate that sentiment. I'm the same way. Like I'm not looking for tools until I have a problem in most cases. I mean if and, and you know, we, we all have that person in our life who loves that stuff and that's. I, you know, I do some learning that way too. And so sometimes I'll go the reverse where I try identify whether or not I have the problem based on someone introducing a tool to me. But I certainly don't implement it until there's a match between those two things. I appreciate that. I'd love to go to a new kind of zone now, which is when does a team need an ISA? When does an ISA need more ISAs and when does an ISA team need an ISA team leader? And is that typically. Would you recommend, I mean, have you seen or would you recommend or do you like the idea of like player coach in that role or do you think it should be like a team leader full time? So I know that was a lot layered in. Let's start with Winch. Let's say it's a, you know, a five or six person organization, you know, a few agents, one or two staff, you know, they're looking to grow. What are some signs that they should start thinking about a dedicated ISA function?

So I was going to pull up something here, but I won't be able to share my screen. But I'll kind of tell you the reason why I think about it is the size of the data or, sorry, the size of your ISA team and the size of how many people in your ISA team and like when is the good time to look at it is all comes down to the size of your database. I mean ultimately that is really what it comes down to because the amount of leads that your ISA can handle is going to determine on what they could do at a daily basis. Like, for instance, like month to date with our three ISAs. Like, we've already had. We're 12 days in, and we're at 91 appointments, 103 conversations. That's two minutes or more, 1,347 call attempts, 7,533 text messages, and 3,966 emails. And that's only 12 days in as an ISA team of three. So the thing is looking at those numbers and determining, you have to have a database size that can handle that volume. So our database size, like 72,000. So you know what I mean? Like, that's. That's barely scratching the surface of that database, you know, I mean, and I tell them all the time, I was like, we are still missing opportunities in our database, guys. So, like, we have to figure out a way to spend and you know what I mean? Like, at that certain point in time, you know how just agents need leverage. ISAs also need leverage. They need to be able to find a way to be in multiple places at once. So where they have to start utilizing AI and things like that. So the database size is the most important thing you want to look at. Because if I was to join a team of like a thousand leads in their database, I'm going through that today, this afternoon. Like, I'm going through that in about an hour, you know what I mean? Like, that's just. Well, not an hour. That'd be insane. But, like, I'm gonna do that in a day. You know what I mean? Like, I'm hit everybody today, and I'm gonna figure out where they're at. And then at that point, you're gonna turn into lead exhaustion, which is something that a lot of teams don't realize is a thing. When a PPC lead comes in your database, you do it just a basic generic 10 days of pain. But then after that, 10 days of pain, you do another 10 days of pain, and then another 10 days of pain. Now you're on 30 days of pain. And that lead is like, stop, please stop. Like, this is insane. Yeah, exactly. You have to have a pretty large database that they can be spending time on the backside of it, or that lead's been in the database for 45 days, 50 days, and they haven't had a text message or an email given time to grow or like, cultivate as a lead. And people don't realize those numbers and things. And I wish more people would look at that.

Yeah, really good. So. So it's. It's some Level of like, how many new leads are we generating? So, for example, if you hook up a new lead source and it's, it's prolific, that might be something where you would put someone on it. But the, but the bigger deal is how many people are in there in the database and how many different ways can we try to spark conversations with those people in a meaningful way? So it's not just, I'm tired of making phone calls, let's get an isa.

Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. That's. I always say that's the worst thing about it is, like, guys, that's not where you want to come from as like the place of value for the isa. Because the thing is, you don't need an isa. And I've seen it happen before where they've, like, I've, I've, I've had friends reach out back, hey, I'm looking for a team to join. Like, hey, that's great. And I'll kind of put an ISA with a team. He's like, Travis, the team has like 600 leads, man. Like, I didn't realize, like, that's why I always coach my ISAs that are trying to find different, like, places to work for. Like, people like buddies of mine that have, like, I've been with a team for so long, like, I'm moving or whatever, and I'm trying to join a different team. I'm like, what are the questions you want to ask? Like, ask them how big their database is, because that'll determine how long that keeps you around. Because when they realize that you've already gone through the database and they don't have anything really else for you to do, like, it's kind of hard to say. This is like job security wise, you know what I mean? So it's always size of database for sure. And I always tell ISAs to have at least like 2,500 to 3,000 active nurtures in your database. Personally cultivating under your name. So on a daily basis, you're no matter what, going to talk to a minimum of 200 people that you've talked to prior to, kind of push that needle forward a little bit more. Like, that's what I always tell them as well. And it's like people like 2500, 3000 tries, that's bigger than my entire database. I'm just like, well, yeah, that's what my ISA is having their name right now. Like, just cultivating, you know what I mean? Like, that's just a place that you want to think about and come from.

So really good. How about the balance between new lead flow and existing leads? So in my mind, like how so when you're just say you're coaching one of these buddies of yours. Yeah, of course they've taken on a new opportunity as a new ISA in a database of, let's just say, you know, 12,000 people as they're trying to figure out the best way to spend their first couple months setting things up. How would you cut that? Like you obviously have new leads that are coming into the database. You have some people who have been in the database for less than a couple of weeks. You have some people that have been in there, you know, for 30 to 60 days and some of them have responded but not gone anywhere and others have never responded. You have people that you transacted with, you know, five to 10 years ago, 10 to 15 years ago. Like what are the different ways you would coach someone to kind of chop up or assess a situation where, where I am right now is that that that productive solo agent who has a pretty healthy database and or a team that has never really looked to turn their existing database into real conversations in any kind of a thoughtful, methodical human fashion. How do you chop up a database? Like what are some of the main categories and buckets you think about? Because I would assume that that's the precursor to what kind of communication flows are we going to design?

Yeah, exactly. No, this is actually huge because I was just, I just did probably three calls, three coaching calls today for that for my check black clients. But it was great because they're also, they're in the same exact pivotal part of their database right now. They all just, they're brand new is that were just brought into the database and they were saying like hey Travis, how do we chop this up? And I'm like well this is what we're going to do. So glad I asked a good question. No, it's great. I was like wow. It's like I wrote that and gave that to you. So really what the way you want to look at it is and as I said before, lead exhaustion. You know what I mean? Like I always say things simple automations and the things that you want in your database the first 10 days need to be automated for an initial text and an email to the leads regardless. And like I pull calling out from all of it from the very beginning just because I want to just make sure that text and email are always handled because that stuff could be easily done. So a lot of the times I always tell them is hey, let's just take a look, make sure some sort of automation set on the first beginning 10 days of the leads coming in. So that's handled, right? And then after the 10 days, where do they go? Well, they need to go somewhere in the database, like in a pond, like a holding pond that you can always attack. And there you say like, alright, great, I have hundreds of leads coming in every month or I have thousands of leads coming in every month. That's great. But we have these 11, we'll say these 11,000 leads over here as you said. Are these 12,000 leads in this pond? I say, great, what you're going to do is you're going to chunk it up in two different things. You're going to do create a date more than six months, create a date less than six months. So now we've divided those two pawns, okay. Now we're going to come up with a very nice text template and an email template and we're going to attack both those, both those portions of the database. Something very generic like, hey, it's been a little bit since you've been back on the website. I know a while ago you were kind of throwing around the idea, let me know, is that still on the back burner or is that something you're still going to do? And then like on the front end I'm going to have them pick up something similar but something less like where they're still fresh, you know what I mean? Not something so like, so personal where it's like, hey, I know a while back you're trying to do this because those are all leads that have probably gotten stuff before. Less than six months are probably leads that probably haven't gotten a lot of stuff before. So then I want to do something where it's like perfect, tell me what your timeline is, please and thank you. This is where we're at, this is who I am, this is what we're trying to do. And I'll have them just cut their database down like that into two different things. Because realistically from there you're going to put those into those two big buckets, into maybe four or five smaller buckets where you can then formulate good responses to those four or five smaller buckets, where you're then going to take those buckets and make them into smaller buckets and you're literally just tearing your database and you're just chunking it down and you're moving those people into basically yes, no's, maybes. Who is this you're getting? Not interested you're getting more than six months, less than six months. You're getting within the next 12 months more than a year out from buying within the next 90 days. Like you just write all those things down which didn't follow. Boss, come down to your stages, right? So you have your hot warms, nurtures your colds, your unresponsive, you're not interested. You're getting all those different categories to the point where now you've gone X amount of days sending texts and emails to all those leads. But now we know that there's three forms of communication. So then you finally are able to take after all of those text messages and emails that you sent out to the database, you're able to take the true unresponsive leads that you've engaged with. You can move those into a call list, throw them in the fall boss dialer and just hit them on all three forms of communication. So now you know that you have actively engaged with everybody. Now you're trying to take away the engagement aspect of it to find out what the people that have engaged back with you. So that's how you really want to kind of chunk down your data. And as you see, I probably got really excited about that because it's my favorite thing to do, a fresh database. I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm so hyped. So it's just, it's one of my passions that I love to talk about. But that's literally how I look at databases in a weird way. I don't know why, but that's just how you chop it up, I guess.

How about a solo agent who needs to do some of this stuff on their own, give some like, like empathize with that solo agent who doesn't have an isa. They need to do their lead response, they need to do their prospecting in their own database. Like, what are a couple of tips for people who don't have the benefit of an expert such as yourself, who's been doing it for years and tried and failed at lots of different things and really, you know, develop some legit best pract such that you're invited into a variety of rooms to, to, to serve people in this way, give a couple pieces of advice for that person.

So I mean, I always say it, it's kind of funny because those types of people, the solo agent that's out there doing it on their own are my favorite type of people. It's same with the CEOs that are still actively selling homes. And I mean like I said CEOs that aren't still actively serving, like they're still great at what they do and they're doing what they do because they love what they do. But still, I talk to a lot of CEOs that are actively selling houses right now. And even in this tough, tough, tough market, they, to get back into it, those are, they're dogs. Like, you know, I mean, like those are the people that are getting it done. Like, those are the people that are trying to manage a business while also selling houses, which is not easy. So I say the same thing to them. I really say, hey, I want you to come up with something whether you did it or not. ChatGPT, however you want to do it, come up with two really good templates or text templates and email templates that you feel good about that you would be comfortable sending out to your database on two fronts. The people that are old, the people that are new, and then just attacking it those ways and really start chopping it up yourself. Because once you segment out your database and you move them to like a, like a hot, warm or nurture now you know, like when you come in every single day, you have your hot warms and nurtures and unresponsives. But you know, if you just hit your nurtures today, you're gonna have that same conversation over and over and over again. You're attacking the nurtures based off of what they've given you to be a nurturer. You're attacking your warms based off of what they've given you to be a worm. You don't have to go like just had a great conversation with this hot lead. I jumped into a nurture lead. Now I'm jumping into an unresponsive lead. You know what you're getting out because you've segmented your database and put it into a bucket and you can really attack your database that way. I say the same thing to a solo agent because those people are just the same thing as an, just as they're their own isa, they have to be, you know, I mean, they're not going to get, it's not going to sell any houses if they're not doing what I do on a daily basis. So that's what they understand though. And the thing is those agents do it better the most because they've taken upon themselves to be self sufficient, self accountable. They have to do that as a solo agent.

Something else I often wonder about is quality versus quantity of touches. I'd love your take on that. I Mean, you need both. How do you think about the quality of the message? Because again, what I'm picking up on, because I love what you said for the solo agent, there's a message you would be comfortable sending to your database. Like, it needs to reflect you. It needs to be in your spirit, it needs to be in your brand. Generally speaking, it needs to come from. It needs to sound and feel like it's going to be like when they actually talk with you. So there's not this, like, weird disconnect. But you also can't afford to dwell in this stuff and try to imagine the perfect message. So, like, talk about quality versus quantity. How do you think about that in terms of touches, broadly speaking?

The funny thing about it is I do a lot of a B testing with a lot of the text templates and email templates that I do and stuff. And like, it all comes back to how you want to sand like how you want to sound. And you're right about trying to figure out what is the best message. Because whenever I do these things, I can tell you, like, my tone from when Evan and I say the beginning has kind of changed. I mean, obviously the more I've gotten more in tune with like, AI and stuff and been able to adjust my templates and things like that. Originally my text templates were literally just, hey, I sent you a text. Did you receive it? I don't want to be a bother. Like, that's what my original, like, that was like my third text that I'd send. Like, like, you're my. My second text message. Hey, I just sent you a text message. Did you receive it? Didn't get a response. Don't want to be a bother now. It sounds something like, hey there, Hope you're having a great day. Just wanted to double check that you received my previous message. Don't mean to be a bother. Just want to ensure that we're on the same page. If you need any further assistance, feel free to let me know. Take care. Knowing that's completely different than how it originally sounded. So a lot of that time is you want to make sure that you have these things and like that, for instance, just that text message alone, I know that I send that after I've sent a text message that they didn't respond to. So, like, I have not only automated the way that I do follow up, but it's not on an automation. I've automated the way that I do work inside of a CRM. Like I have workflows where I have to manually send this text, it's day one. Perfect. I send day one text message. Oh, it's, it's the seventh day. I send day seven text message because the thing is, I don't want day seven text message to go off when I'm out of the office. You know what I mean? I don't want it to go out to them when it is like that's not the time for them to receive it. I also have it like in my head. It's like, oh, this lead told me they're more than a year out from buying a home, but they just looked at and favored at a property but I know they're not going to buy for more than a year. I don't want to just send off something like that says something crazy, but you know what I mean? I want to still send something. So I come from the mindset of value value. Ask where you send out two forms of value, whether that's a valuable text message, a valuable email, then I've given myself permission to ask for information back. So I give them two forms of value. Then I ask for something like, hey, more than happy to show you this home, more than happy to like give you information about this property. Has your timeline changed? You know what I mean? Like that is like me giving value, giving value, asking a question that I hope that they can answer for me. You know what I mean? And it's like a lot of people understand that mindset of it because they understand like, wow, okay, you've kind of given yourself permission to ask that brutally honest question because you've tried your best to provide value to them. So that's kind of where I come from when it says like using templates and automating things is like kind of automate your brain and automate the way you work as opposed to just doing automations just because you want to be in the driver's seat when you send these things out. You don't want to be not in control. Especially when this person's like, well, I never heard back from you. I texted you but you texted me, I texted you back, you never replied like yeah, I was actually on vacation. And so yeah, that's not good ever.

Yeah, it's so smart. And another reason that it's great to work in a team because if you are going to go on vacation, someone else can pick that up. And if you are going to go on vacation or you get sick or something else, that's a less fortunate reason of course. Yeah, things is it is that it's, you know, the communication, the patterns, the rule sets, the smart lists, like all these things everyone's familiar with. It's another reason to work in a team environment is to have that kind of backup. I really appreciate the sensitivity to. I don't want to send a message that doesn't fit with either A my availability against speed to response or B doesn't acknowledge what I already got from that person, what they already were kind enough to share with me, which is kind of the speed to relationship piece. Like you want to. You're like you're a person trying to serve another person and you shouldn't let, you should use automation to help you but not get in the way of it. I really, really appreciate that. What is, what are some good handoff points when you're trying to help a team set up a system? Like is it a qual qualified appointment set? Like I've, I've communicated with this person enough and now you know, based on this, the kind of the systems that we have set up inside our team, Jennifer is the right agent to connect him with. And so the qualified appointment set is when it's you, the isa, who's been working this conversation, working this relationship, hands it over to the next stage. Like what, what is, what is a, what are one or more good handoff points? Like when does it make sense for you to say I've done my job here and I'm giving it on to the next person and maybe related. When does it fall back? Like oh this, this isn't happening, let's give it back to the ISA team. Like how should people set those things up?

So the short answer really comes down to being like obviously timeline. Like I mean really what it comes down to is going to be the timeline of things. If someone is not buying within the next 90 days. Like I always tell ISAs to hold onto it. Like don't, don't let an agent. Because anything outside of 90 days to me personally means that they're not going to get a follow up task or a follow up notification every 14 days. And a lot of the times we see most missed opportunities with agents come outside of 14 days. That's when they go back to like the portals, you know what I mean? That's when they go back to those different websites and stuff. So that's what I always try and coach them to is anything outside of 90 days you hold on to. If it's inside of 90 days and they have a very good motivation, send it. But if they're inside of 90 days and they don't have any motivation to buy or sell. Really ask the deeper questions, you know what I mean? You're not going to force someone to buy in a market like this. And you're really rarely going to be able to force someone to buy anyway. So anybody that doesn't have good motivation just isn't gonna purchase a home, you know what I mean? And I always tell people that just focus on that, make sure that you understand that they have a good meaningful motivation. It's the reason why I changed my whole LP Mama structure is like our motivation column is just like a giant white page of like motivation just has like four questions that you have to ask to get this thing. Like what is motivating you to make this move? You know what I mean? Like just basic questions like that. Or like is there anything that could get in the way of you making this decision? You know what I mean? Like asking those big motivational questions. Because the LP Mama portion on the right hand side, that's just like, oh, location, price, oh man, are they pre approved? Like oh man, what are they looking for? Criteria wise that's gonna come up no matter what throughout you asking just motivational questions. And ultimately any good agent that gets a client that has a good meaningful motivation and are looking to do this within the next 90 days will lock that lead down. If I gave an agent someone without motivation and just said, hey, here's their budget, here's their location, here's what they're trying to do, they're like, okay, awesome. They said they're within 90 days, but like why do they want to do this? Like I don't know, they're just coming to Myrtle Beach. Like that's just. I had to get really serious about motivation, especially here in a, in a market like this, like a second home market. Because I realized I was at my first like couple months being here, I was wasting agents times and I just couldn't do that anymore. I was just like, dude, these people don't have extra motivation. Like I'm not asking the right questions. So I had to go back to the drawing board and really figure out what I was saying. So motivation and time frame are those two big key factors. And like I said anything if all of a sudden an agent meets them and they actually have a good conversation with them and realize that this person is outside of 90 days and they kind of told me wrong. And then I'm like, hey, send that back. I will be more than happy. Just reintroduce me as your assistant. I will take care of them until they're actually within 90 days. Because they told me within 90 days. I want to make sure that you aren't wasting your time because that's where the opportunity gets missed is where they think that they can't send it back to me.

Yeah, I really appreciate this motivation. The way that I, the way that I've thought about what you're describing is the four motivational questions myself. Like, like multiple layers of why now you can't, you can't, you can't talk to a potential buyer, seller like they're, you know, like you're a five year old kid. Like, but what? But why?

Exactly.

But why? So, so the motivation questions are more graceful way to do that. But a, that allows you to, I mean some people need to be coached. They think their timeline is one thing, but when you start pressing into the motivation, their timeline, it might be in their best interest to slow it down or speed it up, depending on what they're trying to do. So I really like that also allows you to have a more meaningful conversation. I, I would, I hate to make this assumption, but I would assume that let's just say you're using like a national portal. There's a chance that you're maybe having communication with, with two or three different, you know, organizations, whether it's a solo agent or separate real estate teams or whatever that's, that's possible that that's happening. I feel like these motivational questions are a real differentiator between the way that you're engaging in the way that an average person reaching out who you know. In a lot of organizations, I would assume it's like this pure, simple, straightforward automation rather than anything nuanced, like some of the nuance you've offered in this conversation. So the idea of standing out against competitors, should you wind up in that situation, I feel like these motivational questions allow you to do that and allow you to build that relationship sooner and faster and be. To be of better guidance and help them make the right decision.

Exactly. No, and it really is, it's one of those things that can really make you stand out compared to other people, especially those, especially those organizations or those ISAs that are just really in it to, for like you know, for a buck. You know what I mean? Like those, those big, big people that are like in it for a buck where they're just like, oh man, I'm just going through the whole calling, texting, emailing, just hoping to get someone to respond. Like they're just like perfect. What is your Location, what is your price? What is your thing? And onto the next one. You know what I mean? It's like, that's not. It's not beneficial. You're going to end up with that lead back again. Which is why a lot of people's conversion rates are really low. Because they didn't find out the motivation. They didn't ask the questions. I always just say, stay curious. Ask for the motivation. Like, understand what they're looking to do and why they're looking to do it.

Let's say I'm a team leader. I feel like our lead flow and our database is at a point where we need someone to spark those conversations. Let's call that an Isaac so I can keep my agents more often in their best place of strength and preference. What are a few things I should look for in an isa?

Someone with an entrepreneurial mindset. Like someone who, as I said before, is. Doesn't look at a salary and get excited. Someone that doesn't want to. Someone that understands that this is a sales job. It's just a different type of sales job. Someone that really takes pride in what they do and someone that is going to show up every day and like. Like work hard. Like, someone that you give them something to do, they do it extra. You know what I mean? Like, that's one of those things where it's like, I always coach even. Even just base level ISAs that are like, oh, I'm just an ISA. I coach them now to take on the role of what I took on as like, hey, awesome. But if your CEO asks you for a. Asks you for something or asks you a question about the database, you need to be ready to answer that question. And always, because you are the person that's in it, you are the keeper of the leads. Like, you are the only person probably logging in every single day handling that stuff. So be ready to answer that or even go above and beyond and offer that. Say, hey, I was going through the database and I was looking at these things. These are some of the metrics I saw that I think might be pertinent to you and the rest of the organization to know why we probably aren't as profitable as we should be. Because Agent Y isn't responding to lead number five. You know what I mean? I can show that stuff and find those things. It's the best part about Fallout Boss is you can really get in there and you can. You can uncover a lot of missed opportunities, which is why I love it so much. So it's exciting.

The Entrepreneurial mindset, I think is key. I think you were really unique in that. A, of course that was part of who you were, but B, you had worked the phones in a hardcore way and eventually run teams of people doing that. So you came with that specialist layer of qualification. But I think that curiosity that you ended the last response with blended with this entrepreneurial spirit and this empowering someone to be. This is your zone. And perhaps creating an incentive structure. Again, I like this caution of, like, pay attention. If someone is just super excited about a fixed salary, that's going to be problematic because it really is a database is just full of opportunities. And I think that, that the blend of curiosity, entrepreneurial mindset, and no fear of rolling up sleeves and, and, and in dialing and engaging and responding is, Is probably the recipe.

Oh yeah, for sure. No, it really is. And I think that's something that just a lot of people always ask that question, like, what's. What makes a good isa? And it's like, if you put all those things together and understand and find someone, like, don't just hire him. Because it was like a friend's son who was like, oh, can you get into real estate? I'm like, that's. That's a terrible idea. I was like, I have fired more coaching clients than like, brought them on recently because I'm just like, first initial call. I'm just like, this person is not going to cut it and I don't want to waste someone's time and, or money, especially if it's someone I'm coaching. Like, that's just not. I would rather not do that. I don't want to just put all my time and effort in this person. Them just not get it because that's not their passion. It's not something they want to do. You know what I mean? Like, I hate that for everybody. So, yeah.

Setting up ISA as a temporary position. Yes. No. Or it depends.

Temporary position. What do you mean?

As in, like where we were much earlier? Like, well, if you do this for six months and you do it really well, then we, we can get to do this. Is that he's like, I actually have.

A good answer to that because I always get told, I wish, I wish every agent, every agent before they became an isa, or sorry, before they became an agent, started as an Isaac. I always say ISA isn't the stepping stone into real estate. But the thing is, I would love it to be for people that wanted to become an agent. It should be a standard. I think any team says, like, you have to be an ISA for the first three months of you being here. And you have to set appointments for other agents and you have to make sure that you close one or two units because you'll realize the heartbreak when you set an appointment for an agent and that agent didn't go on the showing. And you'll never want to be that agent. You'll say it, you'll say, I don't want. I would never, I would never do that. And it's like, okay, all right, I'll remember this. I'll remember that. When I set you an appointment, you. You tell me and you know what I mean? I wish that was a standard that was set. So part time position. Yes. For someone that wants to become an agent. Temporary position or a part time ISA that doesn't work Monday through Friday? No. Because when I come in on a Monday and I tell someone I'm gonna call them on a Tuesday but actually don't work until Wednesday, it's a really weird world to live in when they didn't get a call on Tuesday. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Good advice there. I really appreciate. I can definitely see that being a standard in an organization that has an ISA team, you maybe have two of those positions that are, you know, you're going to step in and do this for three months. This is just what everyone does. Love it. Okay. You've given me tons of time. I so appreciate it. I think you know that these questions are coming first. What is your favorite team or to root for or what is the best team you've ever been a member of?

Best team I've ever been a member of. I'll probably do that one. Best thing I've ever been a part of. My original team, Anderson Hicks Group is in Idaho Falls. They, they taught me to. They taught me everything I know. Realistically, they're like a 280 million dollar team. And it was something that really pushed me to do and take on more like it really is. It inspired me to be the ISA that I wanted to be. Just because I wasn't in a position I was very, very, very new and I wasn't in the type of position to be a leader. And you know what I mean? And it made me realize that I wanted to be. So going into my next position with my next team, I made, I made it a standard from the very beginning that I was just going to step up and be that person that that team needed.

What is a frivolous purchase you've made or what is a cheapskate habit that you hold on to even though you probably don't need to.

Oh, man. I still, I still have, I guess. I guess I guess I still have. I still keep change all the time in my car. I don't know if that's just a bad thing that I would always have done. Like, I still like, I. But the thing is, like, I just keep it in my car. I never take it out of my car. It's just like in the coin thing that I'm just like, the. This has got. Now that I say it out loud, I probably should really go. Go take that stuff out. But it's just like, I wonder how much. How many quarters are in there now. It's just a thing that I've always done. It's not like I have a front down car or anything. I just. It's came from last rundown car to now my new car. And I'm like, well, here's now the coin spot. It's just what it is.

It's so funny. I actually have a little sack of coins that I took out of a car that I just traded in.

No way.

Yeah, I do. But I'm glad I'm debating, like, because I don't know if they're parking meters that take quarters anymore. I always gave pennies and nickels and dimes.

Oh, they. They do.

To my son's piggy bank. But like the quarters I always kept in my car.

Myrtle Beach, I trust you. Right across the street we have a bunch of parking meters. They take quarters. Or you can do cell phone now, but like, they still take quarters. And I always ask, I'm always, like, I said, I don't use my cell phone. I still have the quarters. So I'm like, I'm. This is what it's here for. This is great.

That's awesome. That's funny. Final one. How do you prefer to continue learning, growing and developing? Or how do you prefer to rest, relax and recharge?

I learning would definitely be podcasts. Like, I listen to a lot of different podcasts. I try to type in everything, like inside of like Spotify and Apple to find out. Like, I always type in inside sales or I always type in lead conversion or always type in like some sort of conversion, anything, regardless of if it's real estate or whatever it is. Like, I always just try to find those and listen to as many things as I possibly can on it it. Which is how I've been able to kind of find my own identity in it all. Like, I've Been able to blend everything that I've learned into that. But definitely, like, I guess, I guess both, if I answer both, is just probably hanging out with my girlfriend Catherine and just, like, doing anything that she wants to do. I'm the type of person that won't leave my house once I get home, but she's the opposite of the person, like, let's go do this. And I'm like, you're absolutely right, we should go do this. We absolutely should. Because, like, without her, I would probably say no to every invite ever. And so she's the one that gets me out of the house, so keeps me. Keeps me sane and in my lane. So for sure, that's how I spend my time. Relaxing is by not relaxing is by going out more with her. That's awesome.

Sounds like a really healthy balance. I also love that pro tip of searching your podcast app for topics. I've done that with people. I've done that a bunch. Like, someone will recommend a book and I'll like, just search the author and listen to the author being interviewed on two or three or four podcasts and it'll either a say, oh, oh, I've learned enough about this. I don't need to read the book or say, gosh, I really want to read this book. So, like, I've done it around people, but I haven't done it around topics. And it reminds me of an old fashioned thing I used to do because I'm a lot older than you, which is buy magazines on topics that I didn't know a lot about and just immerse myself for, you know, an hour or two in, you know, like, I don't know anything about fly fishing, but I just picked up this magazine. I could teach you magazine. I'm sure you can.

I love that.

Yeah, that's amazing. You know, so you just immerse yourself in someone else's world and their language and stuff. Like, I used to do that now and then, especially when I was traveling in Barnes and Noble. Was like a big deal. They were. Oh, yeah, they were in every city.

Books a million.

Yeah, yeah. But they had that massive magazine rack. And so you, like, you just walk that thing. Be like, I'll go into this for a minute anyways. But now the podcasts are the way to do that. I'm with you on that. Okay.

I love that.

If someone has gotten to this point, they have probably said, gosh, I might want to reach out to Travis or learn more about what he's doing. What. What are some spots you send people who've enjoyed this conversation probably just like.

Probably my Facebook or my Instagram. I mean, that's probably the only two places that I'm really at. I don't really have any other socials except for those two things. So, yeah, those two things for sure would be the best way to find me.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you not just listening to these episodes or watching them, but also taking time to record one with me. I really appreciate the expertise you've developed. I feel like you're in your right spot. You are just an ISA in the very best way.

Hey, I love that. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor.

Cool. Thank you.

Bye.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Team os.

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