066 Outsourcing Operations with Jen Dillard

No matter how long you've been building your real estate business, I know you're familiar with the one step forward, two steps back dynamic that you're likely to encounter many times. I know Jen Dillard certainly is. She started in real estate selling condo conversions in Seattle, but started over in a market where she knew absolutely no one. When she and her family moved to Hood River, Oregon, she built up JDRE team and refined her role as a producing team leader, but found herself back doing all the things and wearing all the hats when she lost her marketing and operations leaders. Get the specific strategies and tactics she used to build her business in a brand new and relatively small market. Learn how she's completely outsourced operations rather than rehiring in house. And learn how pleasant persistence landed her an exclusive relationship with an important local builder. All that and much more right now with Jen Dillard on Real Estate Team os.

No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

Jen, I'm super excited to get into this conversation because you have had multiple roles specifically in residential real estate, including broker, principal broker, and you're a team leader. You've been a brokerage co owner. I think we'll maybe get into that a little bit. But you also participate in a number of different ways as a developer and investor and you've even launched a business that came out of solving a problem that you were facing as a team leader that we'll also talk about. So with that set up, welcome Jen, to Real Estate Team os.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Ethan.

Yeah. I'm going to kick this off with a standard opener that we have on the show which is what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team.

A must have characteristic is drive. Just that hunger for being able to not only sell but also help other people. I think that so many times agents are, you know, they come into the industry and they just don't have the drive and the hunger and the passion to be able to, you know, to go out there and find new business and they find themselves just sitting and waiting for their team leader to give them business and it's just, it doesn't work like that.

No, it doesn't. It might start like that in some teams depending on how they're structured and what their lead flow is and what, you know, what their, what their value prop is and the business model they've designed, but it can never stay that way for the long term. How coachable do you think that quality is? Or is it just you have it or you don't?

I do think in some people it is coachable, but they have to be willing to learn, they have to be willing to take advice and to implement. And what I found is some people don't have that characteristic. They're so stuck in their own ways that they just are not able to get out of their own way.

One thing I've observed is that one of the reasons we've all seen the statistic that, you know, 75% of agents fail in their first year comes from the NAR. I double checked it before I shared this on a stage, so it's pretty, still pretty fresh for me. And then within five years, half of those that still remain are also gone. So within five years, another half of those that made it that 25% are gone. It's 87% fail in their first five years. And one of the things I observed about that through all these conversations I've been having with you all, you all being people who are building businesses, leading teams in real estate, is that I think the biggest one comes down to, and it relates to this, is that there's kind of a lack of an ownership or entrepreneurship mindset that almost everyone new to the industry is coming from some type of position where they were probably salaried or hourly rather than like you just straight earn it. I feel like anyone who came from 100% commission based job probably makes it real estate. They're probably in that 25% and then ultimately the 13%.

I agree with you. I think it's really, really hard for people that have never had a sales background or never had a background where they had to really like eat what they catch and to just, you know, come into this industry and have to do just. It's really hard to be able to. I mean, that's something I feel like is very challenging to teach.

How do you suss that out when you're welcoming someone, an agent onto the team and like entering into a business partnership with her or him? Like, do you, do you specifically probe it or do you just like feel it? Is it just intuitive? Like this, this person's got it.

Part of it is intuitive, but I think that the other part of it is that I ask questions like, you know, how do you imagine that you'll find business? Where do you, who do you think you'll get that business? From. And, and what are you planning to do to like, how many transactions do you plan on doing? How many people do you plan on helping? And how are you. But how, how are you going to do that? Because so many people, they come in and they're like, I'm going to do 20 transactions this year. And I'm like, okay, but how, how are you going to get that business? Are you going to wait for me to give it to you or are you going to go find it?

Yeah, it's not just, it's not exclusively the power of positive thought. There needs to be some planning execution there. Yeah.

Yeah, my lap.

Yeah. So how did you get into residential real estate? Like, what were you doing before that? Or are you, you know, third generation? And what was going to happen?

I am a entrepreneur through and through, so my, my dad has, has always been an entrepreneur. So I learned, you know, the ropes of that early on. And I used to, you know, I lived on a golf course growing up, so I would, I would go and collect golf balls at night on the golf course and sell them back to the golfers, use golf balls. And I made a killing. It was great. So I got the sales it. But then, you know, I got into property management on a whim and started in that industry. And then just, I started with selling condo conversions in Seattle and doing real estate. And then I took a big break. I took a break. I got my license in 2007. The market did its thing and I got into telecommunications and did telecom sales, which, I will be honest with you, I had no idea what I was selling, but I could sell, sell a T1 line like nobody's business. And so I did that for a while and I had a couple babies. And then I. In 2015, my daughter was six months old. And I said to my husband, I just miss real estate. I love real estate. I want to get back into it. And he said, then go do that. So I did. And I haven't looked back.

Cool. Run us through. I kind of teased it a little bit in that, in that brief intro, but, you know, run us through, like the first five years of that re entry into it, you know, 2016 to say 2022.

Yeah, that was a wild ride. So 2015, I got back into real estate. I was doing really well in the real estate market in Seattle. And in 2017, my husband and I decided to do a major plot twist in our life and pick up everything and move to Hood River, Oregon, a small town. And we did that. And I thought, I mean, I've sold real estate in Seattle. I can sell real estate anywhere. But what I, I was, it was a rude aw. I started a. Like you mentioned before, I started a brokerage and with another, with a couple other partners and it was only. The brokerage only lasted for a year. We decided to part ways and so I went a different direction. I went to a couple different. I, you know, tried out a couple, couple different brokerages until I found home. But it was so hard just getting back into the industry in a new place, not knowing anyone and having to build my business from scratch.

Okay, you've opened up a number of pathways for me to go. One of them I wanted to go to anyway because I feel like Hood river is a pretty unique, like every market has its own kind of unique characteristics and the more people you talk to around the country, whether it's a large market or a small like. But the idea that it's an hour outside of Portland, my guess is that there's probably a lot of second home activity there. Maybe not, but it's on the river. It's, you know, one of the pathways to Mount. I'm a big outdoor recreation person, so when I saw it on map, I was like, that looks like a great spot. I don't know how broadly appealing that is, but what I want to do here first before we get into kind of. Because where we'll go right after this question is starting a business from scratch in a market that you just moved to where you didn't really know anybody, just for a few lessons from that. But as much as you're willing to or able to share what didn't work about that partnership, like just were you, were you or some of the other folks blind to a particular thing on the way in or did you like, was it communication issue? Like, as much as you're willing to share? I think it'd be informative for folks because people are entering into, entering into partnerships of all kinds at all times. And I think the more open eyed we are about it, the better off we are.

You know, I think, honestly I think we just didn't really know each other. And I think that that can work. I think that not knowing each other isn't a necessity in starting a business. But our personalities were so different. You know, they had the personality of like, this doesn't work in a small town. This doesn't work in a small town. And they kept saying that to me and I had big ideas. I'm like a small. Just because it's a small town. Doesn't mean that you can't have big ideas and implement them. And so it felt like it was just holding me back from what I knew that the area needed. And so we just parted ways.

Thank you for that. So how did you get going to start fulfilling your vision in a market where you were brand new?

Well, first of all, what I noticed right away is I didn't know anybody. So in order to do business, you have to have contacts. And so I found myself really depressed. Honestly, I was so miserable. And I am such a social person. So not having friends for myself, for my kids, not having that outlet of, you know, just people in our world was really challenging for me and really sad. And so I said to my husband one crazy morning, like, one morning, I had this crazy thought, and I said, travis, we're throwing a holiday party. And he was like, what are you talking about? We have no friends. How in the world do you, like, how are we supposed to throw a holiday party? Like, I don't know, but I'm gonna figure it out. So we. I ended up just going to the local coffee shops to business owners, and just, like, random people on the street that had kids. My kids. I'd be like, hey, I just moved here. I have kids around the same age. We're gonna throw a holiday party. You're welcome to come. And people came, they showed up, and they went to our party, and we had this great party. It was hilarious because it was like an episode of Seinfeld. I mean, people were like, hey, how do you know Jen? And they're like, I'm here for the charcuterie board. I have no idea who Jen is. And so it was very funny. But that's where I met my first clients, my first friends. And I really started to realize that in order to build a business here, I just needed to pour into the community. I needed to be myself, and I just needed to be more open to having more conversations.

Cool. Any other specific, like, tactics or techniques that you implemented to, like, really. Because you ramped up pretty quickly. I mean, we'll get into, like, when and how you started the team, but I'm sure whatever you did in those earliest days of getting going from the holiday party on allowed you to be in a position to have a, you know, you know, 10 +ish person team.

Yeah. So I started just that. That triggered this whole idea of having community events. So I started having community events regularly, and I would sponsor anything and everything if there was an opportunity to put my name on something or give back in some way, I was there. So that was one of the ways. That was one tactic. And then another tactic was just I want people to say. Actually say the words, I see you everywhere. And so I started doing mailers, I did social media. I recorded videos, and they were terrible, but I just posted them. I just went for it. And I. I found areas where there was a gap, there was. Staging was not a thing here yet. It was not. There were not. You know, very few people were staging homes. So I took it upon myself to get a warehouse, fill it with inventory. I bought somebody else's staging inventory who was going out of business in Portland about their trailer, about all their inventory. And I started staging our listings as a complimentary service to sellers and marketing that. And so it was just doing video. That was not something that was happening. So just taking ideas, like seeing where there were gaps in the market and filling them.

That's great. When in this journey, did starting your own team occur to you?

It was super organic, so I didn't have the. I didn't think about starting a team that wasn't on my radar. It was just being a solo agent like I'd always been. But I was at a coffee shop one day, and there was a guy that was working there, and he was the barista. And he was so personable. Like, just the way that he talked to the customers when they came in. He knew everybody's name. He was so friendly. He was so engaging. He and I just sat down. I sat down and I said, hey, come here, let me. Tell me, what's your story? I love your personality. I love how engaging with the customers you are. And so we started talking, and I was like, have you ever been in sales? He's like, yes, I actually used to be in sales. I lived in Portland. I just moved back, and we got into his story, and I was like, well, I think you'd be an incredible real estate agent. If you ever wanted to do that, I'd love to mentor you. And he did. He got his license, and he called me and he said, okay, I got my license. I'm ready. And so he was my first agent. He's still on my team. And that was where I first. I mentored him and saw him having the success and being able to buy his first home and do all of these great things and support his family. And I was like, this is cool. I would love to be able to do this for more people.

When did more people occur to you? Like, how many agents did you get into it before you brought in like admin or an assistant or, you know, any kind of a, you know, marketing or TC support or whatever kind of support you needed at the time?

Yeah, so it would just. It was just, you know, slowly people would reach out. Agents would reach out and say, hey, I'm thinking, I would love to join your team. And so we'd have a conversation and if it was a good culture fit, then they would join the team and it would just happen, you know, as it. As they came up and we grew to about four agents. And then I was like, okay, I need an assistant. I need some help here. I'm. This is getting a little bit out of control. So I got an assistant and then I slowly started hiring admin in house.

Why do you think those agents were reaching out? Was it because you had brought maybe like a fresh energy and fresh brand to the market and they were doing business with you or another agent on your team and it just felt different than what they were doing? It was interesting. So they wanted a conversation. See what your contacts are doing on Zillow. Monday, December 8th join follow up Boss for a sneak peek webinar where you'll be among the first to see how to get Zillow searching, browsing and saving insights for the contacts in your database directly inside. Follow Up Boss. So when a past client of yours gets that late night and extra bedroom would be really great right now. Kind of feeling you'll know before anyone else who's showing high intent to buy or sell insights about what's happening right now so you can deliver a personalized touch at scale. See what your contacts are doing on Zillow. Monday, December 8th at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific. Learn more and sign up through the link in the description below. You're in your podcast app. Check out the description of this episode right down below. It's the first line and the first link. Now back to the conversation. Was it that simple?

It was that simple. It was attraction marketing. I mean, it was just seeing what I was doing, wanting to learn more and wanting to do something like that for their clients, and that was. Yeah, it was that simple.

The one gentleman you brought in fresh to the industry, although he had a sales background, sounds like some of these other agents had some amount of experience, but at the same time, the idea that they wanted to join you meant that they were looking for something. How did you manage yourself as a parent in a young family, someone doing your own production, and now having surrounded yourself over what, maybe a year's period of time with like multiple people who also needed and wanted some of your time and attention.

I didn't do it well, honestly, I. I was burning myself out daily. I was, I was, I was, you know, trying to be the best mom, the best wife, the best team lead, the best agent. And I was doing an okay job at all of it. And it just took doing that and getting, like, getting. Wearing myself out and realizing that there needed to be some changes in order for me to make those changes. So I had to. I had to live and learn.

One of the challenges that you were going through at the time is figuring out as you are going to make some investments in growth, which is, you know, I'm going to, you know, eat some of that bottom line by bringing salaried people in in house. How did you decide what you needed? Like as you were taking hats off because, you know, there's some things you like doing, some things you're really good at doing, some things you're really efficient at doing, some things that you think maybe are so important. I know this is a problem for me personally and has been throughout my career. Some things that are so important to you that you. That you don't want to delegate those. How did you. How did you decide, you know, of all the demands on my time and all the activities that are in front of me, which ones I was going to hire someone to take responsibility for?

You know, Ethan, I had this. I had heard this advice from somebody that I really looked up to, and they had said that you should create a position around a person. And so I did that. And I just don't think that that was the right move. So I would have, again, like, super organically, people would reach out and want to join the team as operations, as marketing, and I would build the position around the person. And it didn't work out very well. I was. They were not the right skill set for the position. They were not the right culture fit for the position. And then because I'm such an empath, I would keep them in. In the position and keep them on the team and I mean, compensate for their weaknesses and compensate for their weaknesses and put more on myself. So I wasn't actually getting the relief that. And the support that I needed. It was more just like these bodies that were filling these roles and they were doing some of it, but not. Not all of it and not, you know, super well. So I think that if I could do it all over, I would hire c. People that had those specific skill sets that I lack.

Yeah. And probably even designing the position with a blank slate, no face, no name, no nothing. Like what, an avatar? Yeah, yeah, exactly. By the way, quick promotional plug, episode 63, just a few episodes back, I had Harvey Jurgen on. He's an EOS implementer. He was also a licensed real estate agent at one point and still runs a property management business. But we had him on. And you talked about, Jen, like starting over. But for folks that like, are in the middle of this and you're in this situation, he breaks down specifically how in implementing eos, the entrepreneurial operating system, you do your best to take faces and names off these positions and redefine it all. And you might wind up with a person who doesn't have a seat or a seat that doesn't have the right person in it. And you deal with that at the time. But if you're going to move forward, you really need to be clear on, you know, what the business really needs right now. In addition, what the business owner needs at some level too. So characterize your team as it is today for us, Jen. Like, you know, we already established you're in Hood Rivers. Feel free to talk about the market if you want to, but like market size, structure, culture, like what is the JDRE team today?

Today the JDRE team is 11 agents and we have, I have a TC, a transaction coordinator, and I have an executive assistant and everything else is outsourced. You know, I lived and I learned, like I said and learned that that was the, that was the right path for me. Our market is with 10,000, a population of 10,000 and a lot of agents. So it is very competitive and the JDRE team holds their own small but mighty.

This is probably true in a lot of markets right now given what we've seen in transaction volume across the country and across North America, like over the past, let's say 18 to 24 months. But regardless, just set that aside. I feel like what I heard you say was that despite that there's still, you know, a large number of agents for the market. Why do you think that is? Is because it's just a cool place to live and people want to, you know, keep their license and try to make something happen or I do.

I also think that Hood river is really known for people having multip different jobs. So there's, you know, they'll be a kite instructor and a real estate agent, a coffee shop owner and a real estate agent. And so I think that that's why they're able to do that and to keep their license and, you know, whatever works yeah.

Has that worked for you? Have you used or used. Have you had part time agents on the team?

I have not. I am not. I do not think that part time agents. I think that it's just really a detriment to the client. I think that in order to be a successful agent and to really be, you know, do the, do what's right by your clients, I think you really need to have, be a full time agent and have your finger on the pulse of the market, on the ins and outs, what's going on in the market on a day to day basis and do a significant, significant number of transactions. You know, you learn by experience and by doing and there's just, there's so many changes in the marketplace that are happening in the industry that are happening and just being able to be in it every day I think is really important.

Generally the market agrees with you. I've certainly heard some exceptions to that, particularly in the team environment because the team can provide so much support that maybe you wouldn't get as a part time agent in a more traditional brokerage that has maybe less culture, less camaraderie, less direct, you know, set of demands, standards and accountability, let's say. So walk me back to the period where you realize you needed to outsource a lot of your functions. I mean, the way that you quickly described it to me in a previous conversation that you and I had was that you had someone running operations, you had someone running marketing, that for some reason that feel free to share or not was became problematic. You had to let those folks go. When did you wake up to that reality? Just go to that moment for us and kind of describe it. Because I know folks will be able to relate to it already based on what you've shared about bringing people on because of who they were and trying to figure it out and realizing that you were going to have to compensate for them yourself. And it actually created as many headaches as it solved.

Yeah, you know, I actually didn't let them go. They chose to leave and I was devastated. I felt like my business was going to crumble and I was going to crumble and you know, like this is it and everything I've worked for is going to go away. And my goodness, was I wrong. Like I am so grateful that it happened the way that it happened. Although at the time it felt like a nightmare. It was the best thing that could possibly have happened to my business. I learned that the, you know, having these people in house and having them not be the right fit. I learned what was the right fit? And I went searching for an answer. I mean, I was like, okay, this is cool. I just, my, my profit margins just went up a lot. That's cool. But I'm also wearing all the hats again. And that.

You had to put them all back on.

I had to put them all back on. And so wearing all the hats again, I was going back to that place of like, I'm doing all the things, I'm not doing any of them well. And so I went searching for an answer.

What were, what were some of the options on the table at that point? I mean, I can think of a handful of them myself. You know, one of them being, let me define the jobs properly and, you know, go out to my network and see if I can find someone. Let me see if I can do this virtually. You know, there are a number of options on the table, including some, you know, back end in a box type things as well. Like, what did you look at at the time and what kind of decision did you make? And what was that? How long was that period of time? So I know I just asked like four questions in one, so I'll break them apart again. So these folks leave, you're enjoying a nice profit margin, you're already overwhelmed again, and so you start looking for solutions. So like, what was the period of time from realizing this is not sustainable, I need a solution to. I now have a solution. And what were some of the things you looked at between then and having the solution?

Yeah, so I looked into hiring again. I looked into, okay, what would it look like if I was to hire a sales manager? What was it? What would it look like if I was to hire a marketing, you know, marketing director and an operations director? And those are very expensive salaries. And as a small business, it just does not make sense. And so every way that I tried to slice was me having to sell a lot more real estate in order to compensate these people. And I don't want to do that. You know, I, I don't want to have to have that stress on myself to, to do that. And so that wasn't going to work. So then I looked into virtual assistants. You know, there's a lot of different virtual assistant companies to choose from. So I started down that rabbit hole and it just felt like there's, I could piecemeal it together. I could have someone here, someone there, someone here. And that felt overwhelming too, because then I have to manage all those people.

Yeah, yeah, you're still the GC on the big project versus turning the project over to an expert.

Yes, exactly. And my. What I really was looking for was like, how do I take this off my plate? How do I get some support where I can do what I do best, which is, you know, help support the team and sell real estate and have somebody else that's doing the rest, another team behind, you know, doing the rest of it.

If you want to outsource the back end of your business, there are a bunch of directions to go. Like, how did that process go for you and where did you land?

What happened was I was, you know, a few friends had mentioned, hey, have you talked to McKenna at Boutique Coo? And I looked her up and was like, oh, my. Yeah, I remember this. I've met this woman before, and she. She runs a company that does exactly what I'm looking for. So I reached out to her and I started down looking into that, and she said, like, let's just put something together for you and start taking some pieces off your plate. Let's go in baby steps. And I said, okay, I like that. So they started helping me. Boutique COO started taking on some of my social media media, my marketing, my, you know, operations. And I felt such a huge, huge sense of relief. I was like, oh, my gosh, I can go on vacation. I went on vacation and I didn't work the whole time. I was like, what is this life? And so that was incredible. And then I thought, you know, I can't be the only real estate agent that's feeling like this. There's no way that I'm the only one that's having all of this feeling, all this stress and needing this support. And so I ended up reaching out to McKenna and I said, you know, have you ever thought about going more niche with your business and offering support for, you know, in a specific industry? And she said, I have, but I just. I don't know where to start. And I said, I do. And so we decided to partner and start Brick by Brick Collective, which is a support services company for real estate agents. And so I am basically, I created what I want, what I wanted in a business in. In support services, and I created it. And we created it for. For all real estate agents, teams and brokerages.

You know, I think about, like, communication. How does communication go differently or the same accountability? You know, like, what does accountability look like? And so we can maybe peel into each of these layers or you can introduce other ones that you think are interesting too, or that. Or that folks have asked you about, because I know that you're Kind of coaching around the country as well. You know, visibility. Do they show up with the team? Like, how do these folks that are doing some of the marketing work interact with the agents or the agents just fill out a form and it magically comes back, you know, is there like, is there a relationship there? Like, how do they integrate with, you know, your leadership and your strategy and these kinds of things. So like, talk about working with an outside group that I assume could also be scaled up or down based on your needs. It sound like you really wanted like some operations and some marketing and marketing operations work, probably some marketing creative as well. But break down any of those layers that you thought were interesting, like communication or accountability. How do you hold them accountable? What's their visibility to the rest of the team? Or what visibility does rest in team have? Is that even desirable? Do you want them to have a relationship and how do they follow your strategy? Like in integrate with what you're trying to do?

Yeah, I don't have them have visibility with like with the team. I don't have them have communication with the team. The reason for that is I want, I don't want the team to. I don't want the brick by brick team to get inundated with too many cooks in the kitchen. And so we've developed a system where they like, they fill out a form and that form goes to the team. They create the content and they push it back to them and they can make adjustments. They can, you know, and that's. And that works beautifully. And so, for example, if somebody's going to have an open house, they just send a message that they're going to have an open house. Can you get me the flyers, the social media posts? And you know, this is, this is the address. The photos are in this Dropbox file. And it just, it all gets done for them. So the turnaround time is super fast. And what's cool is we create a team around your team. So, you know, if you need an operation, you have one account manager and that account manager manages your team. So I have operations, I have marketing, I have an executive assistant all through brick by brick. And they all speak to each other and they're my team. I mean, it's incredible. And so it's. And it's so much more efficient. Yeah.

Do you do like daily standups or like weekly meetings? Again, this kind of like strategy integration, where are we kind of conversation? Like, what does that look like? Does it look like it normally would? It's just done remotely.

Yeah. So once a week I have a, we have a, you know, call with marketing, the marketing team, like, you know, where are we at? But also I have insight into that. So we use notion and we keep, I have everything in notion so I can see what they're working on and I can see where we're at. And that's super helpful. I just have to go in and approve and make any comments or tweaks that I want. And so it's just their system set up so that I just can oversee and I don't have to be in the day to day. And yeah, it's, it's very, very efficient because we have put the systems and process processes into place. But it didn't take like this was something that I had been working on, trying to create for years and it took a matter of like weeks to get the systems and processes implemented and it's a lot less. I'm not paying somebody 40 hours a week.

Yeah, you're paying them kind of as needed or prioritizing as needed. So let's talk about some of these systems and processes. Like what did you need that you did not have? And, or maybe, maybe what did you have in your head that didn't exist for anyone else's benefit? Or like, you know, what were some of these things that got that were able to be, I assume, pulled out of the way that you were working and maybe coaching your agents to work and turned into more formal systems. Hey, thank you so much for listening to these episodes of Real Estate Team os. If you're like me, you're listening to a podcast conversation and sometimes you have questions or you want to go deeper or it reminds you of something that someone said on the same podcast two or three weeks earlier or two or three months earlier. Good news for you. If you go to realestateteamos.com bot, that's/bot. You can tap into the collective wisdom of every single one of our guests. Use text mode to type back and forth and get your questions answered. Get 5 tips to improve your recruiting, for example, or go to voice mode and you can talk to it back and forth, interrupt it, redirect it, ask follow up questions. It's totally free. It's available to you@realestateteamos.com Bot. That's realestateteamos.com bot. I know you'll find it just as useful as the rest of this conversation.

Yeah, you know, I think it was just as simple as, you know, the person that was in the role of operations was also doing some of the marketing at one point and we've had several different, different iterations of what our, what our brand is. So that was kind of clunky and, and graphic design wasn't their skill set. And you know, so we have somebody that's specific to graphic design, that's specific to social media strategy. And so all of those different, those are different skill sets. They're not. It's really hard to find one marketing person that has all of those skill sets. So we've been able to implement you having the same look and feel across all channels. We've been able to have, you know, consistency throughout all channels. Be able to have like, you know, if a listing comes on the market, it's, it's just, you know, the, the social post goes out, the newsletter goes out, the email goes out. Like everything's just, it's seamless. And that is something that I have been working on for a long time to find. Not only are we putting out the content, but it's good. And there's a group chat so we have just like jdre marketing group chat and it's me and the account manager and anybody that's you know, part of that marketing group and they'll say, hey, check note. Can you please check notion when you have a chance and approve. So then I know I just go in there and I approve the ones or I make comments on the ones that need adjustments and, and it gets done.

I think about where you are with 11 agents, you know, a couple staff in house. I assume you're still producing.

Oh yeah.

Yep. I love. Yup. And so, so, you know, you've got, you, you are, I feel like probably an ideal candidate. Not that there wouldn't be tons of candidates. I think, you know, some of the larger teams I've talked with, you know, have built all of this stuff in house over years. You know, when you have 100 agents or 200 agents, it might actually be more efficient due to. Not necessarily. And it could be done like on an as needed basis. But I do also see the potential for it to scale down where you know, a solo agent or that person who's got like a part time assistant, two more buyer's agents alongside them and you know, they're struggling to, you know, manage that because that's just not their strength or their interest. You know, they'd be able to offload a lot of, a lot of that is anything I characterize there especially resonant or maybe false.

Yeah, I mean we have clients who are solo agents and they maybe they're just starting out or maybe they've been in the industry for a while and they just want, they just want some support in being able to post more content or build a voice. They don't have a brand voice. They're just posting things as they come up and posting templates and it's like just listed, just sold, just listed, just sold. And they need to, you know, people work with people they know like and trust. And so if you're not, your social media presence doesn't support, you know, doesn't have show your credibility, your availability, your authenticity, I mean then you're not, do you need, you need to work on that. It needs to something, something that you need to, you know, adjust. And so it's just so daunting for so many people to figure out how to do that. And then it's just like little things like your CRM people. So many people have a CRM, but are they using them and are they using them to their full capacity? Not. Most agents are not. And it's, if they did, imagine how much more business they would be doing.

Yeah, I mean the general rule of thumb, it probably varies, but I've heard as low as 2 and as much as 5% of your database is going to transact in any given year. And so if you look at a thousand person database, are you getting what you, what you should out of that or a 5000 person database or an 8500 person database or a 15,000 person database? And I think especially for a solo agent that maybe has built something like that over time, the answer is probably no.

No. No. I mean, I would say the majority of the agents that we talk to are not using their CRM. They're using it to just place people's names and contacts into. But they're not, they don't have nurture campaigns sent up. They're not, you know, doing regular outreach with their clients. And so guess where their clients are going? To other agents. So it's unfortunate, but that's what's happening. And so, you know, we can help with that. And then, but also there's big teams. There's, you know, I talked to a team leader the other day who has 28 agents and she's like, I just need help. For me, I'm drowning. I can't. Like she was, she was. I said, I know, I, I understand. And so I'm like, let's get you that support so that you can focus on the things that you do best.

Your coaching and your connected. I obviously across the Continent. What kind of themes are you hearing when you talk with team leaders in general? Like, what's the mood out there as we record this here? You know, toward the end of Q1 of 2025? Like, what's. What. What are you feeling that you're hearing? Other people say back to you, and you're like, I've been feeling that. Or like, what are you hearing now? You've heard it for the third time, like, oh, I guess this is a thing like, what's going on out there from your perspective with team leaders, like, large and small.

So I think there's a. There's really. There's two types of situations that are happening right now. It's either business is really slow. They're having a hard time getting things to kick off for the year. And it's because people are, are waiting. They're waiting to see what the spring market, summer market, what it's going to look like because we haven't had inventory for so long. They're like, what will that look like? Will there be interest? Inventory? Should I wait? Should I wait for the right one? You know, all of that. And then there's the opposite where business is flooding in and they're super busy, but they're. They're drowning. They're trying to wear all the hats they're trying to. And they don't have systems and processes in place for them to be able to run efficiently and effectively without. Without killing themselves. And so there's really those two very drastic different types of attitudes that are going on right now. And then the marketplace, you know, it's slowly starting to pick up. I'm seeing things slowly starting to pick up. I feel like, you know, what I've seen as an agent myself is that people are starting to come off of the sidelines. They're going, okay, the election's over. Interest rates are not going anywhere. We're not going to see a drastic dip in interest rates. So I might as well just go for it. So we are seeing things start to pick up.

That, that kind of brings me back to where I was in the beginning. Tell me a little bit about the market. Like, you know, you, you had sold in a. You know, I don't know where Seattle is, but let's say a top 12 or top 15 market in the United States to a. Again, like an hour outside of Portland. Talk a little bit about that market just as a real estate market in general, not necessarily like seasonally specific, like, you know, who's buying there, what's going on There, what do you, what was, what was what you hoped it would be about that market, as a sales professional in that market or what was like. Oh, I didn't, I didn't know it was going to be quite like that.

Yeah, you know, when I moved here it was so there were so few million dollar plus homes. It was like that was hard to find. And it's changed so much over the last seven, almost eight years that I've been here. There are the, that higher luxury price point. High end price point is definitely more. There are more 1 million plus opportunities available, nicer homes. There have been newer builds, things like that. This, when I moved here as well, there was this. The second home market was very common. It was very common for people to own a vacation home here because they could short term rent it. But our laws here have changed and so short term rentals are really there. It's zoning specific and it's a very small pool. And so we've found that that's actually shifted quite a bit and it's not as much of a second home market. It's more. Yeah. Long term.

Have you as a team done a lot of work with builders or developers as part of this, you know, construction? I don't know if boom is the right word, but you know, a lot of the new inventory obviously or a lot of the inventory I would assume is new, newly constructed, especially on the high end as you described.

Yeah.

And if so like talk like, like formal partnership where you're like, we're going to do all of your marketing for you, like and if so, how did that go for you? Like and any tips for anyone to kind of break into that who is not doing that right now?

Absolutely. So there is a builder that has been building homes here for decades and I tried since the day that I set foot in Hood river to work with him and to be his agent. And he so had every other agent in the area. And so he never, ever, ever used a real estate agent. He would use one here, maybe use one there, but it was like they just did it all themselves. And I was consistent and pleasantly persistent, as I like to say. And I just stayed in front of him and showed my value. And you know, I knew, I asked a lot of questions and identified what exactly that they needed in order to be successful. And I filled, you know, put together a pitch and filled that void and presented to him one final time. Probably not a final time or probably would have presented more and more, but last year and we actually did get that exclusive contract so we're doing all of their, all of their builds.

And how does that go into the team? I assume that like you're not, you didn't work it just to give yourself a ton more work. Like, how does that, how does that work inside the team? Do people qualify into that opportunity? Were some people like part of the strategy from the beginning?

No, I, I secured that on my own. And then I have. You definitely have to earn your way into working with that relationship. And not just because, you know, it's a great relationship, but also because I need to make sure that you're going to give that client the level of support that I do and that you are going to be an extension of me. And it's because that's, I mean, I.

Worked hard, they said yes to you and all the expectations that you set and, you know, the way that you fulfilled it in the process of building that relationship.

And they expect, they expect open houses, they expect video, they expect everything and as they should. And so, yeah, so I have agents host open houses and I have agents on our team. I co list with some agents on our team just, you know, based off of, of how, how they're showing up. You know, if I see that they're really hungry, they're trying hard, they're out there and creating their own opportunities. Opportunities, then I reward that.

Yeah, makes sense. It's really good. What advice do you have for an agent who is watching or listening, who's thinking about starting a team? Like, what would you share with any advice or cautions or even, or it could even be a question, you know, if you have some questions.

Like, you know, I think that having a team comes with its pros and it comes with its cons. I think that if you're looking to create a team because you want to make more money, I don't think think that that's the way to go. It can actually. Teams can actually be not very profitable. And so I really recommend that you think long and hard about why you want to start a team. I think that having a team is great because you're able to bounce ideas off of people. You're all, you know, you're all working together towards the same common goal. You have somebody to yourself, supporting each other and hosting open houses. If somebody goes on vacation, if, you know, there's a lot of benefit to the relationship. So I think that those are some reasons that you would want to start a team, but definitely not for the reason of I just want to make money because that goes right along with Selling because you want to make money, and being a real estate agent because you want to make money and then you have commission breath and. And nobody likes that.

Yeah. No. How about for an agent who's curious about joining a team, like, you know, who's a good fit, who isn't a good fit and. Or what questions should they be asking themselves or someone else?

I find that some of the agents that make a great fit for a team are somebody who's been on a team before. And I don't mean a real estate team, I mean like a sports team or that understands the dynamics and what is necessary in order to be a team player. I found that agents that are, you know, out for themselves and they want to just. They don't want to come to meetings, they don't want to do team events, team dinners, things like that, that's probably not the best fit. And if you're somebody who's more like recluse and you don't really like to be around people, might not be the best fit for you. So, you know, that's definitely one piece of advice. But I think that if you're going to join a team, I would ask questions like, what's, you know, what kind of support do I get from being on the team? What kind of trainings do I get? Mentorship, you know, what are the commitments? What do I need to. What do I need to commit to if I'm going to be on the team? Do I need to be in the office often? Do I need to go to sales meetings? Because just having those expectations set up front will. Will let you know if it's the right fit or not.

Yeah, really good. You also, you did two things for me here. One, you reminded me of all the questions I did not ask you in this conversation, which is how does all this go on your team? But then the other one you did there is kind of team me up for the first of my three pairs of closing questions for you, Jen. And that first one is, what is your very favorite team to root for besides JDRE or brick by brick or what is the best team you've ever been a member of?

My favorite team to root for is the Seahawks because I'm from Seattle. So go Hawks. And then what was the other question?

The other one was, what's the best team you've ever been a member of?

The JDRE team. But aside from the JDRE team, the best team I've ever been a part of was coaching my kids T ball team.

Awesome.

What age when they were in second. My daughter was in second grade.

I love it. It's just like learning the base path is enough.

At one point they're just all over the place and it just is such a mess. But it's the most beautiful mess.

Yeah, it's awesome. What is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you hold on to even though you probably don't need to?

One of my most frivolous purchases is probably a handbag. I love a good handbag. Or shoes. Not too.

Is that an opportunity situation or is that like a reward situation? Like when I achieve this, I'm going to get or when I encounter this thing and it's desirable enough, I'll just get it.

Usually it's a reward for myself. Yeah, I usually wait to reward myself with something that's going to be that frivolous. Yeah.

Cool. How do you invest your time in learning, growing and developing? Like what are you doing or what are you doing when you're investing time in resting, relaxing and recharging?

I am constantly learning and growing. I love to learn. I read like crazy. I listen to podcasts, I go to events and I surround myself with people that are smarter than me or skilled in areas that I'm not and learn from them. And yeah, just I really love to surround myself with like minded people but that are doing things that inspire me and motivate me.

That's awesome. In terms of books and podcasts, how far afield do you go from real estate? Like and I'm asking mostly for myself because you know, I almost exclusively read nonfiction and it's almost always like in the business vein, which is pretty wide. I mean there are a lot of directions you can go there. But I also read real estate specific podcasts. I subscribe to probably five or six hardcore real estate podcasts. Like that's all we talk about here, but then also like 15 or 20 other ones. Like how does that go for you as like a. I see you as an entrepreneur as much as a real estate professional. How, how wide do you go?

It's what it's, it's wide but it's not crazy. Like I don't listen to, you know, the murder mystery or anything like that. I'm very much an entrepreneur and I love to learn. So it is business, real estate and then you know, some just not self help but just motivation. You know, I love Mel Robbins, I love Jay Shetty. So things like that just that help me to just be a better person. I just want to always grow not only as a real estate agent, as a business owner, but also as a. As a human.

Yeah, really good. That's been a background theme in all these conversations almost from the very beginning, which is, is the more that I grow as a human being, the more the business grows because it's, you know, I'm so, it's so much a part of me and I'm so much a part of it. And yeah, people follow my lead. So this has been a pleasure, Jen. I appreciate you so much. I appreciate you spending all this time with me. I wish you continued success in all of your ventures. We didn't even get into your own development and investing work either. A lot of ground to cover. Maybe in another conversation, but with this, I want to say thank you so much. If anyone's got any here to this point in the conversation, they might want to learn more about you or connect with you or follow up on some of the things that we talked about. Where would you send people?

I would just go to Instagram. En Dillard J E N D I L L A R D awesome.

She is Jen Dillard. I am Ethan Butte E T H A N B E U T E on Instagram Real Estate Team Os on Instagram. Jen's Instagram is linked up right down below. Whether you're watching in YouTube, listening in Apple podcasts or Spotify, or watching or listening on the website, it's linked up right down below. I'm already following you and everyone else should too. Thank you so much for your time, Jen. Appreciate you.

Thank you. Ethan. Thanks for checking out this episode of Team os. Get quick insights all the time by checking out real estate team os on Instagram and on TikTok.