[Inside The Team] The Will and Skill Behind Agent Productivity with Justin McLellan

Welcome to episode four of Inside the Lawton Team. You've already met the founder, the chief operating officer and the leader of multiple team leaders inside the organization. Today you'll meet Justin McClellan, the head of agent productivity.

I think I am a little bit of an in between on the operations side and what is the sales side of our org.

Productivity, according to Justin, comes down to two key things, the will and the skill, engagement and effectiveness. He breaks all of that down in great detail. You'll find it very help breaks down the multiple lead sources they have, how they invest in and distribute those leads across hundreds of agents in multiple offices. He was also a high school teacher for nearly 15 years before joining the team. So he talks about the shared passion that drove that work as well as the work he's doing today. Enjoy this conversation with Justin McClellan. Justin, an absolute pleasure to sit down with you. I love what you're doing with the team and we're gonna get into what that is. But before we do, I want to ask you what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

Must have characteristic for a high performing team? I think a community that works well together and is willing to fail and then find the solution to overcome that failure.

I love that. It reminds me of my conversation with Billy as part of this kind of Inside the Lawton team experience. Um, the use of the language. Pilot really. And we talked about some things that worked great and some things that didn't work great. Like I absolutely see it and hear it within the team.

Yeah, I think, I think the pilot is definitely a term that we use frequently. And I think at any given moment we probably have anywhere from three to six to eight different pilots going on. And every single pilot helps us learn a ton. Whether the pilot was successful or not, it learns. We learn a ton to take on to the next challenge and ultimately continue that, the evolution. So pilot is a really good word of trying things.

Scope that a little bit because I did not ask that to Billy. Scope that a little bit. Like we identify a problem or an opportunity, we develop a thesis about it, we decide how we're going to go after it. We maybe define some. What is success, what is not success? Or like you like, like what is. Yeah. How long should it last? Like, what are some other factors if someone wants to start doing more piloting or experimentation to. To. To optimize the work that they're doing? A, this needs to be constant, I think. And B, did I like scope that up a little bit? What's a pilot?

I Think a pilot could be anything really. It could be something that's a massive investment or it could be even like a scripting that you're going to evolve to it. I think it starts with the idea of saying we don't think we're maximizing an opportunity. So then what's a variation that you could come up with to create that and then you start moving through it. I think the size and scope and length of pilots changes quite frequently. I think about a lot of things that we did early on in some of my experiences where we just piloted even initial phone call script that prioritized getting a face to face opportunity completely get rid of all the qualification questions that are coming into and put the highest priority is that face to face, the belly to belly opportunity and how do you get that on initial call and working through that process. And then so I think that's some of that scope and working through that is then you have to get adopters who's willing to give it a shot and jeopardize a lead because the value of a lead is significant and then trusting the process to say like hey, we're going to continue to work through it and mold it and yeah, so I think that's some of that scope of that pilot piece and how we operate through it is just, it's just a version of AB testing ultimately. And did this one work or should we refine it? Should we take another evolution and keep going?

Yeah, I like that who layer that you added to. Like who should we include in this?

Yeah, it's good.

I think that's the nature of trust and relationship there. Before we get too much farther, I would love for you to kind of like define and scope your role a little bit and kind of who are your key connections inside the organization? Like who are you talking with every day, who you're talking with every week and who do you need to check in with every month?

Yeah, so my role within the team, I guess my existing title as it is is is head of Agent productivity. I think I am a little bit of an in between on the operation side and what is the sales side of our org. I have a lot of operation connections through whether it's Billy or Julia or having those conversations about different tracking and reporting or ways that we can increase efficiencies and capacities to the agent. I also have conversations with George about what is our productivity and where our KPIs are leading to as far as our lead and our lag indicators. Michelle, all the way down to our team. Leads and even individual agents to say boots on the ground. What's really going on and what is that true experience? That's I would say that's a lot of my role is there's probably nobody within our organization that I don't want to have some kind of conversation with. Yeah.

Cool. Am I characterizing a lot of your focus correctly when I talk about lead sources and lead distribution?

Yeah, I think lead sources, lead distribution, yeah. And then I would say the efficiency of capitalizing on the opportunities and managing those KPI pieces of productivity.

Cool. Let's break those down then. What are some of your key lead sources? How diversified are they? Which ones are newer, which ones are older? You know, just set that scene for folks.

I think obviously all the aggregate sites we have opportunities from all those. I think in that opportunity that one of the key focuses that we have is like yes, we can bring in opportunities. One of the key focuses is how do we set an appointment or get that at that to an agent. So they come in through a lot of different funnels. I think probably the most primary one is Zillow just because it's a top, really top of funnel opportunity or not top of funnel property but down funnel opportunity. That's top of mind for a lot of our agents. Where we get them and how we funnel them in. And that's where some of the instruments of what our follow up boss helps to get them to that appointment opportunity for an agent. So all over the place but trying to put them into one similar funnel.

How if you were to categorize them because you know, I hear things like oh these leads are great or those leads are terrible. And you often hear some of the, you know, aggregators names associated with like that doesn't seem like it's fair.

If.

You were to cat like if you look at all the different lead sources, like are there categories of, you know, you mentioned like these are a bit more down funnel. Right? Like higher intent or something. How do you categorize those in terms.

Of.

Bridging into the two other kind of buckets we mentioned? How they get distributed out into the team and. Or whether they're held with ISAs. I'm not sure how that goes. We haven't had that conversation yet in this series. And then, and then how you coach and train to different buckets or categories or you know, depths in the funnel by lead source so that agents are being really efficient with those opportunities. So I, I know that I kind of asked a lot there but like are there types of leads that Are kin. You know, this came from here, this came from here, this came from here. And they're kind of all. We coach to those the same. But then over here, these came from here, here and here. And we coach to those differently.

I think in my mind all leads are created equal.

Okay.

Right. I think on the other side of that lead, whether it got kind of direct push in and all of a sudden a notification popped up or it's a phone call coming in, there's a person on that other side that needed support and they were looking for an advocate. Like that's at the end of the day what it is. How do you get that connecting point? And a lot of that either it's. It goes into your site, you either have an ISA or it goes direct to agent and. And they're reaching out outbound calls, or it's through text or it's through action plans, establishing those things. At the end of the day, we want to get it as, hey, we have a conversation. I think that's really where we have worked to create different automation systems and processes to get that actual conversation with an agent. And then that's that handoff to that agent is really where I think that magic happens that an agent has. Is in a position to really change somebody's life. Especially in the world of real estate, homeownership is like a gateway to generational wealth. So we really hyper focus on those initial conversations and then those next steps that follow up it. I think one of the things you talked about was you asked about is like, how do you view those conversations? How do you evaluate, how do you see those conversations going? Getting really, really gritty with it. As a leader, to support agents within that process means that, that you're listening a lot and you're giving feedback a lot to opportunities. I think there's been months, seasons, quarters that I'll look at it, that I'll probably listen to a thousand phone calls. That puts me in a really unique position to add value to agents because they don't get the opportunity to listen to a thousand phone calls or 150 different agents, how they handle different objections or how they respond to different consumer questions and things like that. So I can take that from one piece and pivot it over to another agent that needed that support. That would have been really helpful and that allows them to help them to grow and take that next step. Maybe not on that initial call, but on the next call they get. So I think the success of those opportunities really gets in the weeds of getting in There and listening to those calls and really getting side by side, those agents to help them take that next spot.

Okay, I listened to a thousand phone calls and here are some of my top observations. Because I assume that when you're listening to these calls, you kind of know the outcome as well. In some cases at least, like, you know, this resulted in an appointment or this didn't.

Or sometimes I typically go into the call not knowing the outcome.

Okay, cool. Well, regardless, if you were to. Because I don't think many people watching or listening to this episode could say, in my career, I've listened to a thousand real estate agent phone calls with potential buyers and sellers. And you're doing that like as part of your day to day, week to week. And so what are some things you observe, like things that you wish you never heard again and, or things you wish you heard a lot more often and then how you. And specifically, I guess to turn into something tactical, how you kind of give that back to the agents.

So I think that to understand where an agent is developmentally, to see how you can better support them listening the call, I think there's no better way to really assess where an agent's at and how you can support them, I think.

Except sitting behind like hiding in the corner on a listing presentation.

Yeah, because. But then that's not, I, I don't think that's as authentic.

Correct. Yeah, because they're being observed because they understand that.

So I would say one, we, we created a playbook. I think initially there's old school, a lot of old school traditional real estate, that, that there's a lot of qualifying questions that go in with any client. I think we were able to get a small handful of agents to completely disregard the qualifying question and prioritize just meeting a face to face. So when you get somebody on the call, are you asking for an appointment immediately and are you doing it in a way of excitement to say, oh, let me come along this journey with you? Or oh my gosh, what a great property, when's a good time to go check it out? And offering that appointment, because that's the end, that's the end game goal. And understanding that's the end game goal of every single call. Right. I also think about it in terms you may not get a yes right away, but do you take a step back and kind of, does that dissuade you from your goal of getting a face to face and meeting this person? Or do you circle back? Maybe they have questions. So then how do you work through those Questions. How do you build trust, gain trust, gain credibility, become that figure of authority and then how do you reintroduce the idea of seeing a property? And then at that point, if it's still not there, well, maybe we're not there yet. And listening to the cues of what that consumer is. And maybe it isn't about seeing a property. Maybe it's more about the questions on the real estate transaction process. Well, let's sit down and maybe put together a strategy session about what this could look like for next steps. I'm absolutely all about being your advocate in this scenario. Right. And I think those are things. So creating a playbook, I think is number one. So when we look at it as number one goal is understanding. It's all about meeting the person and it's all about being their advocate. I think about it not in sales, I think about more in social services. We're serving people. And then how do you do that? You got to build some trust. Right. And trust means that you actually care about what they're looking for. And it's not about the price point of the property. It's not about a commission coming in. It's about really what, what do you need in your life? It's a needs assessment piece. And then I think the other piece is, is being the professional, like what separates you from somebody else. And you got to be able to drop a couple things and speak confidently and that's going to get you to actually have that face to face and then seeing where they are in the buying process and actually listen, to be an active listener and listening and then providing some value that might come out of that. I think when you listen to the calls we have, we have a ton of agents that are absolutely amazing on it. And then there's some others that maybe go into more of like, ah, gosh, that property is under contract or all, you know, I'm not the listing agent or. Yeah, this is a, this is a timeshare or co op. Well, when they called, they may not. They didn't know that they're just somewhere in their home journey.

Yeah.

So kind of pivot off of that and saying, where do, where can I support this person? As they're looking for a home, there's a need there and you just got to find it and you got to be willing to ask a few questions to get there sometimes. Sometimes more than others.

Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting. This advocacy piece makes me think a lot about asking more questions. So. And even in these dead end zone, they weren't all dead end zones, but like, you know, this one's under contract. You know, what would. I haven't done this before. But you know, you know what was interesting you about this one, you know.

Yeah. We'll call your eye about this property. Right. Why are you looking? Is there something about this area that's pulling you to this location? Do you really appreciate this city? Is it, you know, you're, you're relocating and then all of a sudden you're getting into, is it the school zone? All right, do you have kids? So now you're building some rapport and you're interested more in who they are as people, not just about the transaction process and listening.

Yeah. So you're taking a lot of this knowledge that you're collecting directly and by observation, you're turning into a playbook. What is a playbook and how does it get shared and turned into real value in the Asian population?

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So for us, we go through an onboarding process and we look at that initial conversation as being one of those key pieces of success. So a lot of our team supports the back end to getting them to an actual conversation and then handing that actual conversation over to the agent. The agent takes that. I think that's a key piece. I think when you meet them at the property, that's a very key piece to be like, hey, who you were on the phone? Are you actually that person in person in a live situation? And then working forward to actually finding them a property that they feel comfortable writing an offer on. So I think the playbooks, those are the playbook, I guess gateways that you look at is the initial phone call, the Initial meeting and then ultimately getting them comfortable enough to write an offer. And each one of them has a playbook. So the onboarding process, we walk through that, helping agents understand each one of those pieces. And then we have consistent coaching and training that gives support to each one of those spots. We also do a lot of reporting so everybody can see where they stand. And then our team leads are really, really empowered to have those conversations. To say, we're, where's the, where are we tripping up? And then let's pour some more resources into you there in that one specific spot, as opposed to just blanket statement like let's really identify where you're at and where you have the greatest need to get you where you want.

Yeah.

So agent productivity, it's your, it's in your title. What are, what are like? If someone's like, gosh, you know what, we really need to focus more on that. What are like, you know, if someone is going to start baselining to say, you know, is this new batch of agents more productive than the batch before them? Or, you know, if they were ever trying to discover anything about agent productivity and improve it, what are 2, 3, 4, 5 measures that are a good place to start?

So things that we, we look at is we look at agents engagement level. So are they taking opportunities, are they working to create opportunities? Or if an agent. So we look at it and saying an agent should be getting and creating, working to create anywhere from 10 to 15 opportunities a month. If an agent's only working or taking or creating two opportunities, then the level of engagement, it's like if I, if I go to the gym two months, two days in a month, probably not going to see much of an impact. So we want to make sure that you're engaged in doing the things to gain that momentum. I think the other piece is effectiveness, which comes down to conversion. Right. Are we converting? And then the way I look at that breakdown of the conversion is there's certain thresholds like what is your appointment rate, what is your met rate, what is your showing rate, what is your, your, your offer rate? And that's how I would say, are you, are you, is this agent productive? If they are engaged, so they're taking the opportunities, they're demonstrating the will, that's what's happening. But then their conversion is lower. All right, so maybe there's a skill piece. Okay, so now let's back into those skill piece because the conversion is a, is that lag indicator, but what are those lead indicators that are getting there? Appointment rates fricking awesome, out of the park. So they're doing those things. They understand that playbook. Their met rate may be like insanely low. So what is that delta and what create is that? Creating that delta. Now you listen to call reviews and you see, all right, they're driving the appointment and then they're off the phone or they're too much of a driver. There's no rapport building, or they're too assumptive language. And then at that point, you get some coaching, some guidance to that, some structure, and you're like, all right, now let's get out there and practice this. Let's do some role play. Let's work through that. And now odds are. And you got to set targets. I think that's another piece of. It is like when you look at it and saying, all right, met rate, I think, is the biggest thing. Can we increase that by 6% by end of quarter or whatever's a reasonable piece. You got to take this many connections that'll move that lever and you just work down the funnel, and that's ultimately going to get that agent productive, where they want to be productive. And I think that's the will and the skill aspect of how I look at it, along with the lead indicators.

Yeah, interesting how who's. I assume you're looking at both of these. I mean, obviously you have these numbers in aggregate and these numbers by agent. And if you want to segment agents between those two things, you could do that too. Coaching is best one on one, but there's also, like, the aggregate piece can help. You need both, you know, to run an organization of the size that you're operating at and to keep getting it better and better and better. Where do you spend most of your focus and. Or where do you, you know, do handoffs and like, because I'm. I assume that you're not coaching 200 agents directly. So, like, you know, where's that handoff? Like, how are you taking what you're observing and. And how. Like, what's. I assume there's some form of, like a relay in this that's constant where, you know, someone's observing this stuff. Someone's, you know, talking about targets and to get down to the agent level.

Like, I guess within my role. I started in my position with 10 agents, and it was the 10 agents that were kind of mixed about all our regional teams. So it wasn't like a core group and it wasn't my sole ownership. I kind of helped those 10 agents increase productivity in a specific area. And then as we grew our lead flow in different areas that grew to about 35 and that's where I was listening to the thousand calls. So I had a lot of that. And that was the creation of a lot of these playbooks that we put into play that I think are somewhat timeless. I think it's interesting, the question between focusing on the individual agent versus focusing on the source, if you will. My belief system is if you can perfect the playbook for one source, that should be somewhat universal. There might be some tweaks about other sources about how you do it. But if you can get the core value of saying my sole goal is to help somebody and get face to face with them and that's where I can be really, really effective. Whether it's an open house, an agent generated source, whether it's an aggregate site, or whether it's FSBOs and expired, it doesn't matter. Having those conversations and understanding the priority is getting a face to face. Let me walk you through that pathway. So for me, I think focusing really on the agent behavior is the absolute key thing because once you unlock that within an agent, then they can apply it to different things. And that's also where I think leveraging company opportunities and providing really, really specific KPIs to focus on and helping them grow allows them to leverage those company opportunities to perfect a science that then they can apply to their agent generated business. So I think those are things and then with those initial 35 agents at that point in time, to your point, not really scalable because there is a limitation in what you have. So we had the structure of regional teams and at that point I'd helped support the regional teams taking on that coaching piece, basically utilizing the playbook. So kind of going through a team lead training of how you run that playbook, the expectations of the playbook, and how to read different tells that you can see when you're looking at call reviews or different agent activity, distributing leads.

Across a population this large, I'm sure, you know, it's a, I heard George say this is a very local business. And I assume that the, you know, the, the offices here across the valley are probably distributed in such a way that there's a geographic component for starters. But like what are, so what are the other key factors for figuring out quantity and you know, matching of, you know, opportunities across all these different sources? Yeah, company, company gen sources, of course.

Yeah, we, we've been in a unique position where we have a lot of opportunities and maybe not as many agents. And that's that's saying something in the fact that we, we have 250 agents, but we still have a really healthy amount of connection.

By the way, is there a, is there a ratio, a lead per agent per month number you're looking for?

The target for company generated pieces for me is, is that 8 to 12? That would be for a company target. I think also you have to take into consideration what an agent generated target is. Yeah. So depending on how they want their blend of business, whether it's company generated or agent generated, like they're going to have different pieces. A brand new agent might be more leveraged into company generated opportunities where a seasoned agent might be looking to pivot differently. So but for a company generated piece, I think the goal is 8 to 10. And that really continues engagement. Anything lower than 8, they may not be fully engaged in what that process is. Over 12. Then you start to think about what is the efficiencies and capacities of that service that they're providing to those agents. So that would be the goal. So within that, I think that's one goal to have that. But how can you help an agent become really efficient within their time? Phoenix, if you go corner to corner, you're probably driving in your car for about an hour and a half. I don't think that's the model of efficiency that we're trying to maintain. And it's a limitation and it's quality of life for agents that just is not ideal. And then also you're looking at it and saying like, gosh, that's a big city that you are supposed to be the residential expert in helping somebody find their next home. So one of the things that we've created systems and structures on is we want to regionalize our opportunities. Our goal is to have every company generated opportunity be within 30 to 40 minutes of an agent's home. So we do everything by where they live and saying we're going to separate our regions into that, that function. The amount of leads plus the amount of agents that are in a region. Basically we map the formula to say is this an acceptable range between 8 to 12 connections per agent per month in this defined region?

And that probably affects how you spend as well.

Yeah, absolutely. And where you want to hyper focus. So then there becomes, I don't know, like, I think I would be gassing it up too much if I called it an algorithm. But we'll go through different processes of evaluating the zip codes that I think we're most effective in and that changes. So we'll do audits of what we feel are our most effective zip codes for us to be targeting. Right now we have 78 zip codes that we target and out of Those we have 18, I would say are like the higher echelon zip codes that we're really, really super emphasized in. So. And then that's based off of our agents strength in those areas. But I think it comes down to too, the regionalization allows them to be that neighborhood expert of a 30 minute window around the home that they live in. So that really. And that's going to provide a better experience for that consumer.

Yeah. And it probably, especially for the newer agents, it probably gives them a lot more confidence. They know the street even though it's only a two block, you know, court or something, you know, like. Yeah, I know that and I feel, I feel better about it.

They know restaurants, they know the high schools, they know they can speak to different things. And that confidence breeds more confidence.

Yeah.

And then at that point they can expand if that's something that they want to do. But it's, it's really about advocating. So the same way we ask our agents to advocate for the client, like our job is really to advocate for the agent to say where, how can we help them get to their spot?

Yeah, really good. I know you've spent a number of hours focused on Zillow Flex. I would love for you to break down, especially for someone who doesn't have a lot of exposure to the, they just know the words. What's the benefit to this process? What is required of you and the Lawton team in terms of, you know, give back and, and like. Because it's a true partnership. But I'd love for you to kind of like break down at a high level what this partnership is and what it takes and what it, what it provides.

So one of the things that I talk about agents as they onboard into our team is that the average consumer searches on Zillow for 12 weeks before they actually press contact agent. 12 weeks is a long time for somebody to be mulling it over in their mind about what, what is that next step? I think when somebody presses that button, I think it's a, it's a moment of vulnerability. I think it's, somebody could be guarded in that because it's like, for me it's like going to a car mechanic. I don't know what they're going to tell me. I have no idea how to, how to verify that. They're throwing it out to the Internet gods to say connect me with somebody that's going to help me with the largest transaction of my entire life. I think about how scary that is. And they're going there for a reason. And if they had anybody that they trusted or respected in their life, they wouldn't go there. Right. If I had a friend of a friend, I would call that person. If I had a coworker, I would call that person. That's a huge responsibility for the person that picks up that call to serve that person at a higher level. When I look at it and say that person not only got introduced that agent not only got introduced to that one person, but they got introduced to an entire tribe of individuals that didn't have a real estate professional that anybody trusted or respect to give that name. That's a very powerful thing in the world of real estate. If you're trying to build your database and build your imprint and build a long term business. As you asked the question about what is the power of what it is? The power is infinite and it's how you view it and how you capitalize on that and how you value that. If you're valuing it as one transaction, I don't know if that's the way to go. Right. I think you got to be thinking more long term because it's incredibly powerful in that way. So I think that's the first part of the question that you were asking. The partnership aspect that I feel within this is. So I've been able to be part of that partnership for about five years. I consistently reflect on some of the early conversations, like I have no idea how I got looped into some of these meetings or how I got to seat at one of these tables because I had no clue what I was doing. But I remember having conversations and hearing some of those goals that they were having five years ago and being involved in a lot of pilots that they roll down. It's been very consistent towards a goal of a much more down funnel opportunity to an agent in the fact that conversion targets I still remember in the initial conversation, is it possible to get a lead that's converting at 20 to 25%? And that was the mission. And over the years you see the decisions that are being made and the things are being rolled out are in an effort to create a lead that is converting at 20, 25%. So how does that partnership work? It works through a lot of collaboration, a willingness to make mistakes and understanding that mistakes are going to happen. Feedback, direct feedback about the truth. Like I'm not going to try to candy coat what's going on. If it's a negative experience, like, hey, we've got to solve this. Zillow is a massive organization and it may take a little more time to sometimes resolve some of those different things. Patience is a piece of that. But I can't say that there's been an opportunity where feedback wasn't welcomed and even encouraged the challenging feedback and then there wasn't a solution that came. Like, I don't think that's one thing. With those big organizations, pretty much anything's possible. So there aren't a ton of walls that are restricting you.

And the reporting factor probably helps a lot. I mean, this idea that the whole thing is set up with a goal in mind and you have a tech stack that allows you to track and measure all of the things that need to be given back because ultimately they want what's best for the consumer and so do you. And so this idea of continuing to implement in ways that move the numbers that suggest that people are more satisfied is a thing.

Yeah, it's direct alignment. It is definitely direct alignment. I think within that, where else? I don't think there's anywhere else in real estate that you've been able to get that type of accuracy in the data. I mean obviously you're dependent on, upon an agent adding the numbers and obviously there can be variation there. But I think that's part of some of that training and mindset piece is the validity of the data is absolutely critical to help your growth. But never before had you ever been able to get that type of visibility on where an agent was going. Like when you're like open houses, you're like, how'd it go? You couldn't really see and give support. So as a support person to agents, you're almost helpless. You're in the blind unless you go and you shadow. But then even then it's not completely authentic and what that experience is. So that data allows us to really paint a picture to support. And then the thought process is once you have that data there and you can support an agent's growth, they can apply those skills to every other piece. Which again goes back to that question about what is that long term play and how does it benefit from that partnership. I think that you've seen agents leverage that to build their skills from somebody that's never had experience. They've got their license two months ago to do a couple transactions, do 30 transactions in their first year, and then start to build agent generated business because they're applying the skills that they. There's nowhere Else that you could. You could have done that that quickly without. So it's really empowering.

Yeah. You were a. I think a high school teacher for over a dozen years before joining the team.

Yeah, I was a high school teacher for 15 years.

Okay. So the curriculum piece, the training piece, the coaching piece, the listening piece, all of that makes sense to me and lines up. Is there anything else that translated really well in this transition? And is there anything about the industry where you're like, oh, I didn't expect that to be a thing?

I think one, I was super passionate about teaching, and I absolutely loved it. What I found for me personally is I thought education and teaching was my calling. I thought coaching. I did all that jazz. I thought that was my calling, and I thought that was my happy place. And I thought I was gonna do 30 years and be. Walk out in the sunset and have an amazing life and be really fulfilled. When I pivoted over to real estate, I recognized that my passion wasn't about teaching at all. I was a history teacher. I don't watch the History Channel. I'm not reading a ton of books about history. All this. It really wasn't about that. My passion was about impacting people and being able to support people as they take that next step in their journey. So I think whether it was a kid in the classroom that was having a hard time trying to figure things, life out, or whether it was a kid on the court and trying to get to that next level and trying to perfect whatever that was with a little more discipline to it. Now, the ability is the same thing with an agent. Like every agent turns to real estate because they have a need that their current path isn't providing for them. Getting to be in this world allows the opportunity to help them get to their next spot. So that I would define as is my passion. And that was. I would say that's the similarity, but that I think, for me, would also be the surprise that I thought I was super passionate about one thing, but in reality, it was just passionate about supporting people as they're getting to their next spot.

Yeah. Awesome. I love that discovery for you and for the people that you're working with. That's great. This has been a pleasure. Before I let you go, though, Justin, I would love to know what is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you hold on to, even though you probably don't need to?

I would say the cheapskate habit would be, I cut my own hair.

Okay.

I've done it for 20 years. Initially it was like in college I had no hair.

I'll just say, I just want to stop you for one minute. Normally when I hear that, it's just a straight buzz cut.

Yeah. Or you're picking it. Yeah. Yeah. So normally initially it was because, like I was in college, I didn't have any money. I was a teacher barely making ends meet, trying to figure it all out. And now I just do it because it's a time saver. Like I don't want to set an appointment and drive somewhere when I can just do it first thing in the morning or whenever I want.

Have they got. I assume they've gotten better over time.

I did wear a lot of hats.

Okay.

But now I'm good. Yeah. Yeah.

For those of you who are listening in Apple podcast or in Spotify or in the embedded player@realestateteamos.com you should go to YouTube. Just FYI, he's got a good looking haircut and he does it himself. Even though he used to wear some hats.

Yeah, a lot of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Cool. Well, this has been awesome. I appreciate you. I wish you continued success and thanks for spending this time with me.

Yeah, I super appreciate the opportunity to sit down and hopefully share some thoughts.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Team OS.

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