EP16 - Renée Sferrazza - Sommelier

Wine. To some, it's just a drink, but to others, it's history, geography, chemistry, and emotion bottled into one experience. Welcome back to Help Wanted, the podcast where I interview industry professionals about their jobs and career journeys, or all in my quest to discover my next career. Today's guest is someone who speaks about wine the way an artist talks about brushstrokes. But don't let the romantic way she speaks about wine fool you. She's also a sharp businesswoman, turning her deep knowledge of wine into a thriving career. Here is my interview with sommelier Rene Sverraza. All right, Renee, thank you so much for sitting down with me. I really do appreciate it.

No problem, Steven. I'm really happy to. Steve or Steven.

You can call me Steven Or Stevie. Never Steve. Steve is an old person's name.

Okay, Stevie, we'll go with Stevie then.

Perfect, thanks. All right, so the first question I have for you is what exactly do you do?

So that's always a fun question. I feel like I do a lot. Yeah, I guess you can see that from all the stuff I post online. But I own a wine and beverage media company. Essentially, that's the bulk of what I currently do. Has a lot of different arms to it, but that's always what I wanted. So Wine by Renee is a wine and beverage media company. We create campaigns from the local to the national for wineries, wine regions, wine agencies, beer spirits, ciders, non alcoholic food to kind of create content that is really accessible to people and really authentic. Essentially what we do is we create like digital billboards that could be in the form of tv, classical writing, social media, and video content.

Oh, okay. So like other, I guess outside wineries, breweries, maybe other people they would hire

or we would be part of their marketing plan so they would reach out to. My business model uses essentially like the Martha Stewart method where there's somebody in the center and then everything kind of centers out from that. So everything is based off of, like, my personal expertise as a sommelier as like a beverage expert, which also comes with food as well. And then from that, we create content that kind of goes across multiple. Multiple different platforms with multiple different audiences. So overall, the audience ranges from 21 to like 65.

Okay.

That's essentially what my clients are buying. They're buying access to more eyeballs for. Hopefully people eventually see this stuff. Stuff and think, oh, I'm gonna buy this. Because that's how marketing works. Yeah, you just. You're not gonna buy it if you see the billboard. Maybe once you forget. Okay. You See it a couple more times. And then you go to the lcbo and you're like, ah, I think I heard somebody talking about this wine. And then you buy it.

Oh, okay.

That's how that works. Very insidious and mildly manipulative.

No, it's. It's. It's. It's marketing.

It's marketing.

Yeah.

Very insidious and mildly manipulative.

You said it, not me.

I. I did.

So your job is, I guess, a mixture of marketing and I. Somalier.

So, like you, I'm a sommelier. So basically a sommelier is a wine expert.

Yes.

So I got certified to be a sommelier in 2016 when I was in my twenties, almost ten years ago now. And what I with that, I used to work in restaurants, used to own a wine importing agency. And I'm sure we'll get to all that stories. But what I use from that expertise is the knowledge to create these wonderful conversations that make this authenticity to all of these campaigns. That's what makes people really interested and engaged in them. Yeah, it's not supposed to be salesy. People will buy things because that is human nature. And we live in a very capitalistic society. And the whole point is to sway people's opinion through what they already want to purchase, but they might not know what that product is.

Okay, so you're just, I guess, showing them these new products, this new stuff that they might already want.

Yeah. So, like, say, for example, you are reading a fashion blog and you just started to be like, okay, I really. I like linen shirts. I want to buy some linen shirts. But you don't know, like, which one you want, which one will fit you. Then you come across all of these little blogs and people talking about it and this and that. And then over time, you're like, okay, now I know that I like this. Yeah, buy it. It's the same thing with wine and beverages and all that.

Oh, yeah. I've never thought about it that way.

Exactly.

It's quite interesting.

That's what my company does.

And I guess. Yeah, that. I guess people would also trust you more because you have this background and knowledge in wine. Being a sommelier. And I have so many questions about being a sommelier. What is the best part about your job? And also what part about your job makes you want to just pull out every bottle of wine that you have and just smash them with a bat?

I don't think there's, like, any part of my job that makes me want to, like, smash anything. Like, maybe humans annoy Me the most.

Yeah.

Sometimes we send out marketing emails to people to get to know our company a little bit more. And I'll get responses back like, do you not know about me? And that I'm not in this area from like a possible client? And it's like, well, I guess I didn't. Okay, well, there you go. And it's to me, when I get people's responses from things or get rude responses back to like a call out for like we do call outs for partnered list based articles a lot. And sometimes I have people reach back out with like just rude responses.

Oh.

Which you know, like is really annoying. But at the same time it's like, you know, you chose to respond that way, not me. It's fine. Great. I'm a Gemini, so I don't really care. I really fall into that. What I like the most about my job is I like working for myself a lot. There is a Mark Cuban quote which I say over and over again to people. He said it many times. I think it's on like Shark Tank or Dragon center, whichever show he's on where he says, I'd rather work for myself and make $50,000 a year than work for somebody else and make $2 million a year. I would rather work for myself.

Yeah.

I don't want anyone to take any credit for my work except for me. I don't want my work to be the thing that pushes somebody else's career forward. It should push my career forward to the full extent that it deserves. And I also like the fact that I have so many different things that I do in this. I go from doing TV se, which I did one this morning, I'm doing one on Friday.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. And I do article writing. We're also been on your podcasts, other podcasts.

Thanks for coming. Oh, my God, you're so busy.

I am very busy, but I like my life this way. I like the booked and busy type of thing.

Yeah.

So I get to write articles, make TV segments, create photo shoots for clients, come up with social media content, video content and all of this stuff. Even make events for people as well. So it's a full service marketing that we're able to do. And it's all under this whole conversation that I love, which is food and beverage.

Yeah. Wow. When did you decide that you wanted to work for yourself?

I like knew. You know, it's so funny because I think that entrepreneurs, you either come in like a couple of different packages sometimes. I've talked to other entrepreneurs and they Come from like an entrepreneurial family. So they're like, I was always going to start a business. I have another business that I own. We can get to that down the line. And my business partner in that business, his family is all entrepreneurs. They all own their own businesses. Him and his brother and his dad and his mom, they all own their own businesses, which is lovely.

Yeah.

I think if you come from that background, you kind of know that you want to, but then if you don't come from that background, you kind of like start to realize over time that it is, you will get what you want if you work for yourself.

Yeah.

And it's, it's this kind of slow learning of I can be fired at any time. It's much more difficult to be in somebody else's decision than, you know, I could not make money. But I'd rather hustle and convince someone to buy something from me than to do that and then suddenly be fired one day and not have a job. It just, to me it seems more of a better long term plan. And when I talk to people about that, that work in corporate, they see the opposite to be true. So. Well, they see being part of a job that has a pension and all this stuff is really great for them. And I see it as well, what if they don't like you anymore? They fired those AI people from Microsoft. You could be done. Who knows? I'm not going to get fired.

That's true.

Yeah.

You are your own boss.

Great. Done. So when I was in,

I have

a degree in environmental policy and urban development. And when I was in university I really enjoyed working in the policy sphere. But when I exited university, Stephen Harper was prime minister and you were younger than me by a good couple of years. So I will tell you that Stephen Harper hated the environment.

Oh, okay.

He really hated it. And he cut all environmental funding. This is a name that we could totally mention because anyone that works in the environments knows how much Stephen Harper hated the, the environments and the arts and all this. So when I exited, I exited university with no job prospects. And when I was in high school, this was the only like degree that appealed to me was like, oh, I could work in the environments. I can become a diplomat, I can work in government, which I do really like. But I had no, no way forward when I exited university and I had been working in restaurants since I was 16. Okay, so I was still working in restaurants. I couldn't find any jobs that were really kind of working. I did some work with the city of Toronto and another NGO called the Pembina Institute. And all of a sudden I wanted more shifts at the restaurant that I was working at, because those two didn't really pan out. When I wanted more shifts at the restaurant, I was told that I had to learn the wine list. So then I just started learning about wine. They had classes there. And then I found out that you can go to trade tastings, which is essentially like, wine regions, like wines of Ontario, wines of Argentina, wines of Chile. They do these massive free tastings for people within the restaurant and beverage industry. You just go. You can meet people and taste wine and all that. Yep. So I started going to those, and I started going with, like, my resume because I was like, oh, what if I get a job overseas? And was like, 22 at the time. So I was like, oh, what do I have to lose? I can work here or I could work on a winery, which. 50. 50.

Yeah, sure.

Pretty good. Like, if they say yes, great. If they say no, well, I'm still here. And I like living here, so it's fine. At the same time, I was also flirting with entrepreneurship. I had a custom light artwork company because I wanted to be an artist for. For a while. And some restaurants in Toronto still have lights that I made from them.

Like lighting fixtures?

Yeah.

Oh, cool.

Light fixtures. You know, to do electrical work from start to finish. So it's a really fun thing that I learned how to do in university through some art classes. And I was doing that, but I found that really difficult. And I needed a lot of. I needed a lot of certifications and just a lot of safety things, because electricity.

Yes.

To do that. And it just wasn't panning out. Then I did end up getting hired by a winery in Prosecco region in Italy, which is in Veneto region. And if you're picturing Italy and you can picture Venice, it's about, like, 20 minutes inland from Venice.

Okay.

And I worked in it near a town called Treviso. And the winery I worked at was actually a giant castle. It was called Castel.

Oh, wow.

And they hired me to come on for the summer, and I was giving, like, English tours and helping with, like, English wine sales and stuff like that. I'd already started learning about wine, and I got to work there, which was great. And I realized that they weren't really importing their wine into Ontario. And at the time, finishing a policy degree, which was based in environments, and learning about wine, which is an agricultural resource at its core, and then trying to do a business, but not liking that business. Because, because of reasons. I thought, hey, you know what really works out? Well, I should start an importing company. How hard can it be?

So you did.

So I did.

Wow.

And I was.

That's ambitious. How old were you when you decided to do that?

I was 24.

Wow. Okay. Yeah, I don't think there's any 24 year old out there. Like, I'm just gonna start an importing company. That's crazy.

At the time. This is, this is my problem. I have the very queer slash firstborn woman gene of how hard could it possibly. Yeah, like, I'm sure I could figure it out. Sure, it will go great. So that's a constant over, over in my life. The older I get, the more cautious I am. But it's still like, if I haven't tried it for the first time, I'll

be like, yeah, how hard could it be?

How hard could it be? Like, I'm not gonna break any bones and I'm not flying through the air. Like, it's really not that risky. How bad could it be? So, so when I tried to start the. I started the importing company, I was 24, I got the license. The license to import in Ontario is called a manufacturer's representative agreement. License you call yourself and you set up something called an agency, but your license is a licensed manufacturer representative. That's what it's called. It's only like 65 bucks. That's it. And then you set up an HST number. Yeah, you can make it a corporation. I made a corporation instantaneously because I thought, okay, why? And what if somebody gets sick? I don't want to be liable. I don't have any money, so I'll make a corporation. So it's a separate entity. So corporations essentially function as non existent humans, but they have essentially, in layman's terms, they have the rights of humans as a business.

Okay?

So they. You are not liable for something that you do within the corporation you personally. If a bottle of wine explodes.

Yeah.

You're not liable. The corporation is liable.

Okay.

Which means that you yourself, Stevie, will not be sued. The corporation will be sued. So you can still live your life and you can shut down that business, but your life is fine and you're not in shambles.

Okay?

So corporations are really good for people that want to set up businesses that have liability to them that could affect people's lives, even though surprising. But if they sued you or were damaged or injured by it, you would be fucked up for it. Sorry to swear.

It's okay.

But yeah. So I set up a corporation. I set up the importing agency. We started importing the wines from Castelo de Rancade. I started. I signed on two other people to work in this importing agency with me. And then we started bringing. I thought it was going well. And we started bringing in wines from Italy, France and America. So we were doing that.

My goodness.

I was part of the business until 2019. And at that time, I also started another business in between. So I'll go. I'll go back to that. But from 2015 is when I started the business fully to 2019 is when I ran it. And we sep. I separated out of the business due because I was having disagreements with my partners and I just didn't want to be part of. It was very difficult.

Yeah.

So overall, the company grew to do a million dollars in sales, which is great. Awesome. But like, when you think about it, the wines. And the average price of the wines would have easily added up to that.

Okay.

And we were doing about like 500 cases a year.

Okay.

So when you add it up, it's.

Yeah. Okay.

A million dollars, surprisingly, is not that much money. When you. When you look at it from this perspective, like you don't have a million dollars.

No.

But a million dollars worth of money has moved.

Oh, okay. I see.

So this is. This is the entrepreneurial mind.

Yeah.

Right. So it's different, but like, I'm not a millionaire.

No. Yeah.

But a million dollars has happened under my watch in a different way.

Yeah. Which still. That seems crazy, though.

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. So started the thing you have to deal with the bureaucracy of the lcbo.

Yes.

Freight rates. All this stuff has to go into lab to make sure that it's tested. Everything that comes in that people eat or drink is tested, which is fabulous and amazing. Yes, we like that.

Yeah. I interviewed somebody who actually works for a company that imports wines and alcohol. Yeah. And he was telling us all about. Yeah. How thorough the LCBO is with testing.

Know that business. You can tell me after.

Okay. Yeah, I'll tell you after.

But yeah. No. So you. It does all this and you know, you have a couple of pitfalls within this industry. As an owner. The problem that I had with it was one, it's about every business has a turnaround time to profitability.

Okay.

So when you have a business that's turnaround time for profitability could be like, okay, I have my overhead, which costs this much, but every month I'm going to make it. Your turnaround time is. You're Going to be profitable after a month and you'll see like decent profit. A lot of businesses have about a one year turnaround time where all your effort that you put into it and your initial costs that you put into it, you'll make back in a year.

Yeah.

Like service businesses, you'll have a one year turnaround time.

Okay.

Okay. For a winery to be profitable, you usually have about at least a five year turnaround time before you start to see profits.

Oh, okay.

For a wine importing agency, you have about 10 year turnaround time for full profit to come through. Because your margins are very small. You're only making about 25% on top of the cost of the goods once it's landed.

Okay.

And my thing with my, the disagreement that happened with my partners is I wanted to get a workhorse wine that was very cheap, that would taste far better than it could be priced at so that I can make that wine's margin 50%.

Okay. Okay.

So I wanted to import a dollar bottle of wine from Europe.

Yes.

And I. By the time it gets here, it would be worth $3. But I want to sell it for 10.95.

Yeah.

Which is a fabulous markup. And it would really rake in a lot of sales very quickly.

Yes.

They didn't want to do that. This was the turning point for us and me exiting that business.

Okay. Yeah.

So when you, what I say to people in all of this, in this point of my life and when people are starting businesses with other people, it's sometimes you don't know what's going to be the end of the business. And you might not know what that is. And you can plan for contingency a lot. There was other things that, that were not jiving. But this for me was like a big thing. This is why this business will not work for me anymore. This is too much work. I can't find a way to make it profitable. The people around me are not letting me make it profitable the way that I want it to be profitable.

Yeah.

I'm done. So I exited. I got them to pay me out. During this time, I also started a sommelier consulting firm for restaurants that either needed on floor shift sommeliers to come in or. And I would fill that role a couple nights a week. Or restaurants that didn't need a full time sommelier, they needed someone to come in one to three times a year to change their menu and train their staff on how to sell the wines with the food that's there.

Oh my goodness.

So I was running that at the same time as the importing agency, right up until the pandemic.

Oh, okay. And so all of the knowledge that you gained from. To be become a Somalia, that was.

I forgot to mention, I became a Somalia when I was 26. So I started the importing agency when I was. I started working on it when I was 24, 25. I had already started it.

Okay.

Realized I needed a little bit more standing in the industry. So I went for my sommelier certification, finished that by the time I was 27. And when I was 27, I started the consulting firm as well. So now I'm running both at the same time. 2019, I exit the importing agency, keep the consulting firm for one year. It's the pandemic. Now we're in 2020. So that's my timeline.

Wow. So I have so many questions.

Yes.

What was that? I guess education process, like to get that certification to be a sommelier.

Okay. So, you know, the funny thing is, when I look back at my life, I feel like I might be you from the outside, because I know that you're going to ask me a ton of questions, what I say right now. So before I decided to become a sommelier and I was in wine, I. I was living at Lansdowne in Bloor.

Okay.

And I was working in restaurants, and I hadn't quite figured out that I wanted to be a Somalian. I hadn't gone to Italy yet.

Okay.

This was previous to that. It was like 2011. Yeah, 2011.

Okay.

11. So I was, like, 21, beginning of 22. And as I was working at this restaurant there, the neighbor next to me in the building had bedbugs.

Oh.

And it invaded my apartment. And at the same time, I also. As it invaded my apartment, I also went to Italy during that time. And I, like, had it sprayed. And I figured when I come back, it'll be gone. So I'd, like, live with them for three weeks, which was awful.

Yeah.

Highly. Don't recommend. And they came back, and I slept there one night in the apartment, and I noticed, like, all this. It looked like rice everywhere. It was eggs down, everything.

But how long were you in Italy for?

I was in Italy for, like, five months.

What? And they survived somehow?

They survive? They. Apparently they can survive, like, years.

Oh, God.

It's crazy. So I lost my house, my apartment, and everything that I had in it. No, except for, like, the suitcase that I took to Italy with me. That had clothes. That's it. And my, like, computer. And I have a camera Collection that goes back to like 1911 that I had been collecting since I was like 12.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. This is just like a footnote. We don't have to get into too much. Like I said, I feel like you. I feel like there's gonna be many questions. So that's all I had left. And I was really, like, a little bit lost at the minute, just me right now, because I didn't know what I was going to do. My dad was living in Barrie and my mom was living in Mississauga, and I didn't want to live with either of them because I knew that being in the city would be the best thing for me to do. This is also a time when, like, when I moved to Toronto, it was 2009 and I rented a room for 420 bucks, which is. I know you're shocked. Yeah, that's basically what it was in 2009. The apartment that I was renting that had the bedbugs was a wood one bedroom apartment with an attached studio for $975.

Oh.

Which, yeah. So, like, I was like, you know what? I think the best thing for me to do would be to stay in the city because I wasn't necessarily unemployed, never really been unemployed, but I was still working in restaurants. But I was so trauma by everything that had happened that I would, like, have a job for two weeks and then I would end up getting fired because at the time I didn't realize it, but later I was like, oh, I was really bad because I was sad. And then I was sleeping on people. People's couches and very worried about, like, where I was gonna live and what was gonna happen and do. I'm. How long am I gonna spend on people's couches? And this is awful. And all of a sudden it hit me. I'm gonna start this importing agency. I'm gonna work on that. So I started learning about it and putting effort into that. I didn't have any money really, but I was starting to. The fact that I was staying on people's couches meant that I didn't have to pay anything.

Yeah.

So I was like, okay, if I don't pay anything but I'm still working, then that money should go into a savings account. And what I can do is I can start to use that to take, like, specific classes that'll help me learn this thing and also save up money to get the things I need to do the sommelier test. Now, the sommelier test is kind of like the bar exam. There's four levels of certification.

Okay.

So you have introductory sommelier, sommelier, advanced sommelier, and master sommelier.

Oh, okay.

I'm just sommelier. But you have to go through all the steps if you want to get to master.

Yeah.

To give you a sense of it, doing an introductory sommelier course is like taking, like, a high school focused class, but you're doing it in one test in one day. For sommelier certification, it's like an undergraduate degree in one test in one day. For advanced, it's like a master's degree in one test in one day. And for a master, it's like doing a PhD in a couple of tests over a couple days.

Oh, okay.

But they stretch it out so you don't need to go to school to take this test.

Wait, anybody can.

You can take the test. You just have to pay to take the test.

Oh, okay. Interesting. And I'm assuming you also have to be a certain age to take that test.

You have to be legal drinking age, which is 19. So I was qualified.

Yes.

So you have to be legal drinking age, and that's it. To work in alcohol at all, like, even to work in restaurants, you have to be 18.

Okay.

Like, I was working at 16, but I was working, like, burger joints and stuff where it's like, you're like a cashier anyway, so you own. You don't have to take any courses. You can study yourself.

Okay. So did you prefer that?

I did.

Okay.

Because I have ADHD and dyslexia, so it's a lot.

I'm dyslexic, too.

Fabulous. Sorry.

That's okay.

So what I did was, as I was not living anywhere and trying to save up all this money is I found these how to import courses for, like, 65 bucks. I was like, okay, 65. I can learn how to import and then online. No, no, it was like an in person course.

Oh.

And I would go to these trade tastings to learn more about wine. So that would be. I wouldn't buy any wine to, like, learn for the test. I would just go to these tastings and make notes and spend hours there. Hours and hours there. And I. Whatever money I had, I saved up for the test, which cost at the time. It was like $565American. So I think it was like 700 Canadian.

Okay.

And then I had saved up, like, another 200 bucks to buy, like, wines that I could blind taste over time. And because I already set up the importing agency, I used the importing agency to buy a coin Coravin which is a machine that takes wine out of the bottle without opening the cork, and it replaces it with argon gas. What it's called a coravin. Yeah. So I did that, and I would use that because I expect expensed it through the agency. I bought these wines that I would use to, like, blind test myself on different varietals, like, the ones that I knew I would be tested on. So it was like 12 different wines. So I spent 200 on, like, 12 wines at the time, like, and I would test myself on those, like, couple ounces every day here and there. And I just ran my life like I was in school and just set up for the test. And then I got myself a mentor who helped me train for everything else.

Yeah. How did you find that mentor?

She was great. I found her through a friend who also did the test and was like, you know what? If you're going to pass, you need a mentor who's going to, like, teach you the intensity of things like how to study for this and all this, which was great. And she was, like, a huge help, essentially. She ended up being like a big sister to me for years. And that is essentially what I paid, like, about a thousand dollars overall for that test in, like, 2016. Money.

Wow.

And then at the same time, started the importing agency with, like, basically running it on credit cards and making sales. And then once I got that certification, getting starting the consulting firm and making money through that.

Yeah.

So I've been working for myself for a long time. And even though I might have not been making a bunch of money from it, it was always something that I wanted to do and always made me happy. Rent was always covered. I just started saving for retirement, and I'm like, halfway through my 30s. But we don't think about that too much.

You've got time. You're good.

I got time. I'm planning on living a long life.

That's good.

So, yeah. So that's. That takes us. All of that takes us to the pandemic still.

To the pandemic.

Yeah. And then everything changes in a.

In a.

In a positive way.

In a positive way. Okay, we will. We'll.

So we can. We can pause there.

Yeah, we'll get.

And we can. We can swing it. But that is like the.

The good split the whole journey. I do want to ask you about, I guess, the test to become a sommelier, because this is what I was picturing. I'm picturing, like, 12 glasses of wine, you know, lined up in front of you, someone sitting across the table. And you have to, like, sip it and be like, I can taste the moss and the.

Did you watch the Psalm thing on Netflix?

No.

Okay. The tests get progressively harder at every level.

Okay.

But everybody has to do the intro level, which is basically like, just a knowledge test.

Okay.

What you do, Every test has a written and a tasting component. But once you get into, like, sommelier, advanced and master, there's also a service component, because there's basically two schools of thought in wine. There's the sommelier school of thought and the W set school of thought, which is the wine and spear education trust.

Oh, my gosh.

So W set is used mainly for marketing, and they don't really do any service. They do a lot of, like, reasoning and understanding on how something might work in a marketplace. But sommeliers are people that work specifically within the restaurant space.

Okay. Okay.

Which means there's a service component because you serve wine in a restaurant.

Yeah.

A plus B equals C. So there's always theory, which is a written exam.

Okay.

And that written exam can include, like, pick between A, B and C. What is the soil that is most commonly known with the wine region of Chablis?

You have to know stuff like that. Yeah. Oh.

The correct answer would be Kimmerigian soil.

Everyone write that down.

There you go. But it's also. There'll also be questions that's like, if you are going to be charging blank for this bottle, what would be your minus your markup? And what would be the entry level price of a bottle you'd be looking to purchase from an agent before it gets on your wine list?

Okay. So these are like business.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's all based on restaurants.

Okay.

And restaurants have markups.

I see.

They are businesses.

Yes.

So they must. And wine and alcohol is where you actually make the most amount of money. You don't make as much money on food. You do on alcohol.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

I did not know that.

Well, now you do.

Now I do. Thank you for teaching me that.

And then once you get to the sommelier level, you also have to do service. And the service is really interesting because you basically, when you go in to do the sommelier test, you, like, do your written test. And then you have a blind tasting test, which includes four wines. Only at the first level is two wines, then four, then six, and then eight. Nobody is sitting across from you.

Oh.

You just have them. And you have to use deductive tasting skills, which is basically like, as you are learning about wine and understanding what makes a wine taste a Specific way based on how it was grown, what grape it was, where it was grown, how it was made. Then you use that to deduce what the wine is in the glass. So, for example, you could be served a white. A white wine, a red wine, a wine that doesn't look like it's sparkling, but ends up being sparkling and then, like, another red wine. And they might. So let's check the white wine.

Okay.

You pick up the white wine and you start to, like, look at it. You're like, okay, what color is it? Like, is it really. Is it oxidized? Is it more golden? Which will tell me if it has oak aging on it. Okay. No, it doesn't have that. All right, this has, like, yellow, but, like, it also has this, like, green flint. When you, like, you look at it in the light, it kind of flickers green.

Oh, it's like when you kind of like swirl it around and you can see that color. Okay.

Okay. Yellow flicker, green, cool. Then you like swirling. You look at the legs. The legs are the tears that come down the glass. And what they tell you is how much sugar and how much alcohol is in the wine. They don't mean if it's good or bad. If you like high alcohol wines, then. And they're really thick, then great. You like high alcohol wines, and that's how you can tell. But for this white wine, they come out. You can see that they're tears, but then they dissipate halfway through.

Okay.

So the sugar content should be higher to keep them thicker. So it's a low sugar white wine and it doesn't have this thick tear the whole way down. It kind of dissipates halfway. So it's more medium level of alcohol already. I know these things about it.

Without even trying?

Without even trying.

Oh, my gosh.

Right? So I've already learned three things about this wine. Right. Then you smell it.

Yeah.

So you smell it and you're like, okay, I smell like green. Green like lemon grass, cilantro, pepper. All these things are coming through. Okay. I think. I think it's taking me down a pathway. That could be Sauvignon, Blanca Sortico, or Albarino. Those are, like, my three wines that I think it's going to be from the information I currently have.

Oh, my God. You're like a detective.

But this is what the learning is.

Yeah.

So it's applied knowledge. Okay, so it's all applied knowledge. Why is your accountant good at doing math? How can they get you a tax return that's better? I don't know. They know.

They know. They just studied it.

They studied it. They can do it. So I learned that just for. That's just smell. Now I have to taste this wine. And every grape varietal, no matter where it's grown in the world, has a specific characteristic in terms of the shape. For white wines, it's the shape, intensity, and character of its acidity. The. That'll give you a clue as to what the grape varietal is. This wine, when you taste it, it has this crescendo of acidity. So it feels like it kind of pulls back and crashes into the front of your mouth like a wave. But it doesn't happen right away. So it's not bracing. It has this, like, water, like aspect to it. That's Sauvignon Blanc. Now I know it's Sauvignon Blanc, but I don't know where it's from. So now I have to figure out where it's from.

Wait, you can tell where it's from just by.

Well, because. Because it's a. These are testable regions, so it's not like Sauvignon Blanc from any random place. There are testable wine regions in the world that are denoted for being great places of Sauvignon Blanc. Okay, so you have Loire Valley in France. You also have New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc as well. Those are the really two big ones. But you also have Bordeaux Sauvignon Blanc, which could be blended with semilion. And you also have Sauvignon Blanc that can come from Chile as well. So I Four possible places that this Sauvignon Blanc that I've decided could be from. Now, I have to pick that based on the quality of the fruit and how warm or cool climate it feels, because those climates will affect it. So I smelled a lot of peppers and grassy notes, which, to me would mean it's coming from a warmer climate, because that's what happens with Sauvignon Blanc when you get this, like, intensity to it. But that could also be Bordeaux. And I go back and smell it, and I smell this tropical note, and, like, ah, now I know it's tropical note. Now I'm between New Zealand and Chile. Now I have to go back and forth and basically decide which one. So you've narrowed it down a lot. You have two choices now instead of what is it?

Yeah.

So that's what blind tasting is, and that's how you do it for four wines. Then you do your service exam where a master sommelier in the city that they're doing it because all the master sommeliers do these tests wherever the city is. So in Toronto, there's, like, four master sommeliers that are nearby. They come in, and they do this sommelier exam here.

Okay.

Okay. So there's always one sitting at a table. And then they have just place markers for, like, if somebody is important at the table, because you have to serve the people at the table in a specific order based on their importance. Oh, so if you go. If there's. We're sitting at a table currently with eight chairs. Right. And if you say that person over there on the other side, it's their birthday.

Oh, okay.

But I'm ordering the wine.

Yes.

So therefore, I would taste the wine to make sure it's of good quality and it's not corked. But they would be served first.

Okay.

And then you would serve the whole table going leftwards, going counterclockwise.

Okay. I thought it was, like, a capitalist thing.

No, no, no. But, like, there might be an important person at the table. So they have, like, a card over there that says birthday.

Okay.

Right. So the correct answer when you serve it would be, the master would taste the wine first. The master Somalia would taste the wine first, and then you would immediately go in and pour at that seat.

Okay.

Before any other seat special is first.

Yes.

And it could be anything. It could be just like it. We're celebrating my wife. We're celebrating my husband. We're celebrating my friend. So there will be anything.

Can you say, like, that person's paying. Make them try service.

Usually people don't do that. Yes. Yes, you could. Then you would start from them, and then you would go around the table counterclockwise based on that.

Oh, okay.

So there's service, but they'll also ask you questions, and they'll be like, okay, so we're gonna have this chicken dish. What would you recommend to pair? And the first answer you give them, they will always say, oh, we had that last night. What else you have? And you have to have a wine list memorized in your head that you've created for this exam already with the full name of the wine, the grape, where it's from, and the vintage so you can talk about it.

Oh, my gosh.

It's a very difficult test. But if you have a passion for it, it's also not that hard.

Okay, I can see that. Because, yeah, you'd have to be very passionate about it to be able to be able to know all these things. But I feel like if you have that passion for it, that drive for it. You would want to know all these things about it.

Exactly. That's why when you first asked me what makes you. Me frustrated about working with myself. It's. It's never anything that I'm doing. This passion goes through all of it.

Yeah.

Which is. Which is the driving force. Nothing makes me upset in terms of that characteristic. So that is the sommelier exam, then you pass or fail. I hate taking tests. It's the only. I've only done the sommelier exam. I don't want to do any other exams. Maybe I'll look back at doing, like, a master of wine when I'm in my 50s, but it takes so much time, effort, and energy. I don't feel. I genuinely feel like if you need a certification to gain credibility within your industry and you're not very good at test, take the certification that you know will push you farther. That's very important to do that because it does provide a lot of credibility. It says to other people in your industry that you are someone who they can look towards, especially if you're a young person.

Person.

At this time, I'm 26, with an importing agency, surrounded by people in their 30s and 40s who are buying wines from me at different restaurants. How am I supposed to look to them?

Yeah.

Like I have a legitimate business that they should actually partake in buying something from me other than the fact that I probably could convince them. And I think that'll be fine.

Yeah.

That legitimacy is very, very important. So you should strive to get a certification, but at the same time, you don't need to push yourself farther than you need. Sometimes you don't need much. You just need the one thing that'll, like, push that forward.

Yeah. Which is that. Just that label.

That little bit of label.

Yeah. Have you ever been sitting at a table or where somebody serves a wine, and then the person who brings the wine's like, you can taste the flavors of wood chips and grass from wherever, and you're like, what are you talking about, sir? Are you okay?

I think people interact with wines in very different ways. And, you know, I am. I am a. I. I try to be a really kind person because my number one goal with all of this is for people to drink and love wine.

Yes.

And enjoy what they're having responsibly. So I do a lot of. I have some winery clients now, and I do a lot of their staff training based on their vineyards. And I was recently at a staff training for a winery in Lake Erie and their one staff member. Every time I went to her, she was like. She sat. She's like, this smells like paper. And I was like, okay. She's like, I would tell a customer that this smells like paper. And I was like. Because I asked, like, what would you tell a customer about this wine? She's like, I would tell them it smells like paper. I'm like, you know, maybe. Maybe that's not the best word for what you're trying to describe. Because we want them to buy it, Right? You're trying to sell them this. Why would I want to taste something that is. That smells like paper? And I was like, what if it wasn't paper and it was an actual edible thing? Yeah. That you think that this smell is? Like, what would it be? And she's thinking and thinking and thinking, and she ends up coming with like, it smells like coconut milk. I'm like, okay, this is a much better descriptive word.

Yes.

For this. So I'm not trying to make things. I'm not trying to push people away from it. I'm just trying to make them think.

Yes.

About what it is. Someone's like, this tastes like salt. I'm like, does it taste like salt? I'm not really getting that. What do you mean by salt? Is it salt on something? Did you eat a spoonful of salt? Like, what do you mean by salt? And even when you have the right answer and someone's like, this smells like apples, but they want to learn, like, what kind of apple is it? Is it a green apple, Yellow apple, red apple? Is the apple under ripe? Is it the apple without the skin? Is the apple peeled? Is it just the apple skin? Skin?

Oh, my gosh.

Is it oxidized? Has it been sitting on a counter? Like, all of that is apple? It's all apple.

Yeah.

Which apple is it? Right.

Yeah.

So because in the academic form of which apple is it? Is still an answer, then paper and other. And she was. She's like, it. This. This smells like chewed gum. Like, I think that you could come up with a much more better sellable descriptive term.

Nice simile. Something else.

I always try to push people to say something like, if this is something that you eat and drink, it should smell delicious. If it smells like grass. Are you having a picnic? Does it smell like grass like that? Or did you cut the lawn? Like, lawnmower? The lawn?

Yeah.

If it smells like dirt, like, is it potting soil from flowers you're planting, or is it like you step. You jumped in a puddle of mud and it smells like wet, gross dirt. Like, which one?

Yes.

One of those is better.

So you're almost, like, pushing them to think more creatively.

Exactly.

So it's like they're on the right track. You're just like, let's take it a different creative approach.

Everyone is always on the right track. They're also just saying the first thing that comes to mind.

Yeah.

Which for some people are not actively creative right away. It's difficult. But if you push them, be like, what do you mean? That's so interesting. I don't think I. I don't think I get that. What do you think? What else do you mean by that? Like, I try to be really nice.

Yeah. And have patience.

I try to be patient.

You seem like you have patience. For the most part.

I have a lot of patience. I do. I really, really do. I'm actually very quite patient with a lot of things in my life and a lot of patience people and all of that. So that's fine. But I try. I want people to have a fun time. I'll. At the end of the day, I have a company that does something in a space that is basically for fun. But I am an academic in that space.

Yeah.

But the thing that I'm an academic on also gets you drunk.

Yeah.

So it's kind of funny. So it's like. It's a. It's hilarious. Because how serious can I take myself in this? I can take myself as seriously as I want to, but at the end of the day, if you drink a whole bottle of wine, you'll be drunk.

Yeah.

So let's have some levity to it.

Yeah. And have some fun with it and

not being a snob in that way. If you're gonna be a snob, might as well be a fun snob.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Especially with you around.

Yeah.

Nice. Fun snob.

It's a fun snob. Yeah.

Are there any misconceptions about your industry that you hear that make you laugh about or cry?

I think that one's the funniest one. Like, you know what? It's true. There's a lot of pretension in wine.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of, like, snobbery. But I think things, like, are changing across the board. There is that classic trope of, like, ugh, you don't know what that is. You shouldn't have it because you won't. You won't like it because you don't know it.

Yeah.

It's like, this is only for this. And you know what? When I do Have a party and I have friends that are over. They will be getting a far better wine, my wine friends, than the other people that are there. But they're all getting a wine of good quality that I would drink. It's at my house.

Yeah.

But I might have a special bottle that I might be just drinking myself or serving to other people. So I'm like, I'm an accessible snob. I get. I get where people are coming from. It's. For me, I always look at context in terms of other stuff. I'd say, like, the common misconceptions is that we're snobs and we're pretentious. The wine industry is filled with a bunch of people who are basically alcoholics that have decided to make money from it. Yep. Which, to be honest, is true, in part. I meet a lot of people that a friend of mine had jaundiced a while ago. I go on judging wine, judging trips with people, and they'll be like, how was your morning? And if the hotel has a gym, I will have worked out and done at least a run on the treadmill or something. And I always get from some of the older guard wine writers, they're like, oh, you worked out. That's so interesting. Do you do that every day? Yeah, I do. I do it to manage my adhd, but I also do it because I work in an industry filled with food and wine.

Yes.

And I would like to age like wine, not like milk. Yeah. That's my personal vanity goal. So. And, you know, it's funny because you see people where you're just being in the industry and seeing this and, like, yeah, it looks like you've never worked out and, yeah, it looks like you had a lot to drink. And, yeah, it looks like you don't drink wine. Yeah, they're probably right.

Yeah.

So I think there's that. I, for me, like, I'm very pragmatic about a lot. And for me, like, what hinges me to this industry is that I. I'm really passionate about it. I find the information very interesting. I also like that it has this hilarity to it that you can take it really seriously or not really seriously, and that you could be a winemaker or a writer or someone who talks about it on TV or someone who creates content or someone who just judges wine or is an investor. Like, there's so many different things that you can do that are all under this massive hub. So for me, I'm very, very pragmatic about it in that way. And I like to pick and choose what I want from it. But I think that's also, like, the way that I think about my work as an entrepreneur. And this is like, I was probably always going to be an entrepreneur, but this is the passion that I've chosen to push into from that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's what also makes not only you, but other entrepreneurs so successful, is when they combined their passion with, you know, into a business, and they run with that.

Yeah. And to add. To add to that, because it's probably. I think this is like the next logic. Even though you didn't ask me a question, I feel like this is the next logical thing to say is, yes. Your passion might not be the first iteration of your passion as a business, might not be the business that you stick with that is the most successful. Do you see what I mean? Do you understand what I mean? So.

No, you lost me. Sorry.

You might have a passion for something.

Yes.

And you might start the f. A business in that passion.

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

But that first business that you start might not be successful.

Yes.

And that's fine.

Yeah.

And sometimes. Well, actually, all times that entrepreneurs have this. It's very rare that you will have your first business be this wild success. 90% of the time, even people working in their passion, the first thing they do is not as successful as they want it to be.

Yeah.

I am now on my third business in the wine industry. Fourth overall. And this is the most successful business I have.

Yeah. Well, it's like, you know, each business, you.

Each business, you learn more, you push forward, you like more innovating.

Yeah.

Keep innovating. So that's like the next logical thing in terms of if people are listening and they want to be an entrepreneur. Like, you have to pick a passion that you can pin it on, because the passion will be there forever and it'll make you happy because the business part itself will automatically have its ups and downs. Yes. And that's the hard part. The passion isn't the hard part. It's the business that's the hard part.

Yeah.

There you go. Your passion can't just be. I want to make a lot of money. It has to be something useful that you like, that you will read about.

Absolutely. And that's part of the reason why I've started this podcast.

Yeah.

Try to find my passion and try to figure out where I belong. And I'm not going to keep. I don't know if I'll keep this part in, but I think from I've learned about myself by interviewing so many people in so many different industries is I think my passion in life that I love is I love storytelling. I love telling people's stories. So being able to sit down with people and ask them questions about their life and their career and their ups and downs and then be able to share those stories with other people, I think that that's where my passion lies. And I do want to take the entrepreneurial route with that, but I have no idea where the heck you start with that.

So then I would urge you, like, once you figure out what you like, which you've essentially done, then my next questions for you to ask yourself would be, what is the profitable thing of this? What can I learn about this to make this wealth of knowledge grow? What. What is the profit making thing? Is it. Is it the podcast? Is it. Is it story writing? Is it an event series? Is what is it. What is the thing that is sellable that makes this actually a business that generates profit?

Yeah.

Because if you want to live off of it, it has to generate a profit.

Yeah, we have to. Yeah.

Unless you want to be like a cult leader with a church, which is basically what I've debated.

I've debated, I thought about it.

They're done. So just flirt with it a little bit if you want to. But yeah. So what would be the thing around your passion that would make it profitable? Because that's. That's what is. Now that I have this media company, I have this passion of. I love telling the stories of wine, I love bringing these things forward, I love creating content and creating these conversations that democratizes this for people. That's what I love the most within this industry.

Yeah.

And that's what this business. Business does. It democratizes this and makes it in a way that you can read this, you can interact with this social media thing. You can watch this on tv, and it's not like some stuffy old white dude being like, and yes, my burgundy collection is fabulous. And it's from 1966 and well before you were born. And this bottle is worth $4 million. And you're like, great, fabulous.

Thanks so much.

I will never taste that in my lifetime. So there's so many aspects of that, and it's, how do you make that profitable? For me, it was people paying attention. The profit is their attention. That's what people can buy. That's what people, my clients are purchasing. They're purchasing the fact that they have someone who can talk to a wide audience and they're working with me on campaigns to talk to that audience, which is captivated. So that audience is what I'm selling. That captivation already. Those eyeballs.

Yes. Okay.

Which is valuable.

So you yourself are the, I guess, figure.

Yes.

That helps promote and share knowledge about people's business, businesses and people's wines. You are that face of that. Okay, I see that now. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

When you look at not all businesses, if you want to be in your bit down the line, you might end up with a similar company. You might.

Yeah.

If you are selling a service or if you're selling conversation, then what you're really selling is people's attention.

Yeah.

You are still your wonderful, captivating self within that. And it should always come off as honest and authentic and not lying and because nobody wants to feel that they're paying attention, because they don't feel that.

Right.

They feel like you're getting. They're getting all that that they need from it. So that's why they're paying attention and that's why you've become valuable.

Wow, that makes so much sense.

Yes.

I'm gonna have to really think about that and see how I can figure

out how to create value.

Create value for myself. Kind of the same way. Similar way that you did. But don't worry. In a completely different way. Workspace.

It's fine. Don't worry.

Okay.

It's fine. The other, the other part of me is I'm very competitive. It's. I. My friends always joke with me. I always say, I'm like, that's. You're more than welcome to compete in the same space as me. You're more than welcome to try to beat me.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, try, try to beat me.

That's fine. Go for it. I. I encourage you to do so.

Yeah. With the way that you were describing, you know, the wines before and how you were like dissecting it just by looking at it. I'm like, okay, she's a wizard. Like, I don't know how she's doing this. I can'. Do that.

It's a lot of knowledge just in magic. A little bit of magic, A little bit of witchy magic. There we go.

All right, for my next question, we're gonna take it all the way back to the very beginning.

Okay.

I want to ask you, what was your very first job?

My first job, I worked at Tim Hortons when I was 13.

Thirteen?

Yes.

Was that allowed?

Yeah. I had a sin number. I had a social insurance number.

Are 13 year olds allowed to work?

I was going to work no matter What?

Okay.

Because I had actually been doing random jobs. It's so funny when I look back at my life, I. My parents are immigrants from Italy, so we went to church a lot. I'm not a churchy person in any way.

That's okay.

But the church had a bulletin board, and they were doing these babysitting classes when I was younger. So in grade six, I signed up for these babysitting classes. And they taught you, like, CPR and like, they taught you, like, the stuff that you would need for babysitting. Like, if there is an emergency, like, here's this. Which actually was really good. Because then they had a bulletin board where it's like, certified babysitter, blank amount of money. And I put up these little posters and I would go and babysit other people's kids. But because they had this. This class at the church.

Yeah.

Then you again, you became certified in something that is valuable.

Yeah.

See, there you go.

Full circle moment.

Full circle moment.

Maybe I gotta try that.

There you go. So I had already been doing things, and my. My dad, he started a cookie company when I was younger. He sold to, like, a bunch of other schools, and I would sell those cookies and I would get like. Like a 10 commission or something like that. So I would get like 10 bucks off $100 order. And when I was young, because my parents are immigrants and they would. We. We weren't able. They would not give us money for whatever we wanted. There's like, there is wants and there is needs. I know you want to go to the movies with your friends, but I don't have $20 to give you, so you don't need to go, therefore, get a job.

Yeah,

13 was fine. I was like turning 14 really soon. So I think that's why I ended up. I was in like my 14th vintage. My 14th year.

Okay.

But I was 13 at the time when I started working, which would have been 2000. It was 2004. Yeah. 2004 was when I started working. And yeah, I worked at Tim Hortons and then I worked at Value Village. And then I went from Value Village. I worked at Hero Burger. I was a manager of a location in Vaughan. And then from there I was working. This was all like, I did high school and university all the way through. I always had a job. I've always worked, like, at least three days a week once I could.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then I would just use that to. As money of things that I wanted to spend or things I wanted to do. When I was younger, I would just Travel.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, well, I can afford the plane ticket, so no one could say no to me.

True. Because your own money.

Yeah, it's my money.

Yeah. Also, random question. So you said your parents are from Italy.

Yeah.

And then you have gone to Italy to.

Yeah, I actually went to. My mom is from the town called Treviso.

Okay.

Which is where I was nearby working, so I got to go visit.

No way.

As well. And we visited relatives a lot. My dad is from Sicily, so my parents were moved here by their parents when they were children.

Okay.

So they grew up here and they met here. They are divorced. So it's like.

Happens.

Yeah, happens. So when I go back to Italy, I do visit with relatives because there are people that are still there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you speak Italian? She does.

It's usually the best way to prove.

Yes. So then you.

I dream of being an entrepreneur? Is that the question?

Sure. Did you ever dream of becoming an entrepreneur or like, was it ever, like, in the back of your head that you were like, you know, maybe one day I might think about wanting to get into the alcohol beverage industry?

It's so funny because I don't. I don't think the job you pick when you're a kid is the job that you end up wanting to do anyway.

I mean, it's true.

The person that I looked up to the most when I was younger was my Nono on my mom, my grandfather on my mom's side. And he, like, he worked in trucking, he worked in furniture. So he had all these stories and all these cool things that he did. And when I was younger, I was like, I want to be a person with a lot of stories. I want to have a life where I look back on it. Like, I did this. I went here. This happened to me. I did this thing. I did that thing. Now I'm doing this thing. And I ended up living that life.

Yeah.

I did not know that I wanted to work for myself, but when I started working for myself, it felt like that was the thing that I should have been doing the whole time. Because I always hated working for other people.

Yes. I feel that in my soul.

Like, I will like you, but I will. I hate working for you. Like, I would. I would feel that. And like, I hate this. I truly hate this.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I relate to that on a very deep level.

It's a very choice word that you don't get to use very often.

Yes. So then we learned about your journey, about schooling, and then. Oh, you had your first importing business and then we get to Covid.

Yes.

What happened during COVID So Covid was

really quite interesting because I was already out of the importing agency, which thank God that I was, because that was, for lack of a better word, a shit show for everybody in the importing industry and anyone trying to sell anything to restaurants because. And then my sommelier consulting firm crashed instantly because nobody needed me. I was unneeded. So at the time I. It was really like. I remember as Covid was happening, I was like trying to sign on this new client to like do this, like, long term training and stuff. And. And they were like, yeah, yeah, this will be over in like two weeks. Everyone will be back to work. And at the time, like, everybody really thought that genuinely everybody thought was like, oh, it like, so we stay inside for like a month or so. It's over. And over time, it started getting longer and longer and longer. And when they did like the stay at home order for like three months, the first one was like three months or something.

Yeah.

I was like, devastated because I was like, I didn't have any clients that the business had completely crashed by no fault of my own.

Yeah.

And I think I spent like a week just like drunk on my couch watching Tiger King.

I mean, I think most of us did during that time.

I need to process this thing that has happened that was outside of my control. And it's funny, I just started posting online. I just was like, I know I need to grow my online presence. At the time, I had a girlfriend who had sent me over this, like, how to build 10,000 followers on Instagram guideline. I was like, I'm gonna do it.

Can you send that to me?

I don't know if it'll work anymore, but I'll send it to you.

Oh, anyways, okay, that's fine.

They've changed their algorithms.

Okay. You know, I'll still send it to you. I'll try.

I'll still send it to you.

Thank you.

So I was like, I'm gonna try and do this. And that was my focus. Yeah, I had 900 followers before the pandemic. Year one of the pandemic, I got to 10,000.

Whoa.

It was. I just really focused on, like, posting and interacting and creating content that I thought would be, like, unique and interesting in that aspect now. And everyone was online. Yes, everyone was. Everyone was interacting online. I also started running conversations on Clubhouse, which people aren't really using anymore now, but it was like, I would do these, like, weekly conversations. I would get Experts that I knew from around the world to chat on Clubhouse with me and like a room of like a hundred people on Clubhouse Weekly. So that was really fun. And then like people just started coming out of the woodwork. I had a friend of mine who owns a magazine. It was like, I really want you to write for the magazine. I'm a dyslexic person now. I'm writing for a magazine. Great. Cool.

Yeah.

First writing was not as good as it is now, but before trial and error.

Yes.

And then I had another friend who. Another client who had seen me at the restaurant, who worked for CityLine, which was a television show that's now off the air. But it's was on for 40 years and they needed a wine expert. So they brought me on and then I ended up becoming the wine expert there.

Cool.

Then all of a sudden I had like these things that people had value for. I had a bunch of followers. I had the ability for people to pay attention to my work. So I had sellable content as an influencer, but I also had segments where, you know, people. I could ask for products from it. I can do follow along articles with it. I could charge people for the time and the work.

Yeah.

Of this. Okay. I have a sellable thing now. I have like an inventory. Great.

Wow.

Amazing.

Yeah. Good for you. That's amazing.

Thank you. But you'll learn as you become an entrepreneur. You're like, you're selling something. You're selling whatever it is. You're selling something.

Yes.

And for me, I learned during the pandemic what I liked in the industry, but what I also liked about selling stuff within the industry. What I hated about being part of the importing agency was the bureaucracy and all of these checks and balances. The fact that you're saying selling essentially a vice product because it's alcohol and has to be checked, has to go through this, has to go through that. There's new regulations at every single border, including provincial borders. You can't just run like this big giant business. You need warehousing space, you need all this upfront capital. I don't have that now. I have a service that talks about things people can buy on their own.

Yeah.

It's in between somebody else is selling it. I'm just talking.

Yeah. Seems a bit easier.

It's a lot easier in terms, in terms of that. And then you get to focus in. On. On. So I was starting to focus in a lot more on what would people be interested in hearing about even if I did call outs to Clients, like, I have. Basically how my business works is I have an email list of hundreds of people. It's like almost like a thousand people strong. And I'll email out to them and do like a call. Like, we're doing this. This kind of. This is what this month is all about. If you have any products and you want to talk about doing a campaign, happy to chat. And then we kind of reframe things in how I want. How I think that the audience would be interested in listening to them.

Oh, yeah. It's a creative approach.

Yeah. So it's not about being salesy. And it takes out the salesiness that they have with their original product, and it places the salesiness of things. If somebody has a product and they have these. The sales mantra to it. 80% of that is actual useful information just packaged in a really salesy way of doing it. That 80% information can 100% be used in a different way from a completely different topic, which takes out the salesy aspect and places that product in a conversation that people have in their lives. Like, what to buy for Christmas.

Yeah. That seems like. I think I've said it before already, but, like, not only just because your certification, but because your approach to this sales. Approach to alcohol. That's why people probably trust you so much.

Yeah. As I know how they're thinking about what they want to buy. Nobody is like, oh, my God, you know what? I just recently fell in love with Bernello and I love it. And I've learned that the best Bernello. Oh, my God. It has to be. It has to. Has to. Has to be from near, like the. Just outside the Keanti zone in the south. Has to be perfect. Has to be this specific. Bernello. I love Castel I. I love Castello G. I love these pizzare. I love all these stuff. This is what I want. And nobody's saying that. No, nobody's saying that. They're saying is, I have a barbecue. We're doing an Italian wine night. I have a friend who really likes wine. This is what they're searching on the Internet. This is what they're looking for. Oh, how people are buying stuff.

That's. That's smart.

Yes.

Wow.

So what's the point of using the salesy thing when nobody is searching based on that?

No.

And everything is connected to the Internet.

Yeah. Because for me, whenever I'm looking for a bottle of wine, I just look at the bottle. I'm like, that looks cool.

And if you were searching something on the Internet about that, what would you type?

Yeah, I would probably be searching for.

Going to a barbecue. What should I do?

The event. Yes.

Yeah. Going to a bachelorette party. What should I bring? Going to a friend's.

Because you don't want to show up with the wrong thing.

Yeah.

Like, what's that embarrassing?

And then based on those topics, you can put out content that people actually search for and engage with that. Then you can then take to clients and be like, this is what we're talking about right now. If you have a wine that fits this conversation based on these parameters, it can go into this conversation.

Yeah. Okay. I don't know if I'll keep this in either, but for you specifically, like, do you. You post blogs then about to attract people to learn this information, but you post blogs or how do you.

I don't post blogs because what I do is I try to maximize SEO as much as possible. And to maximize SEO, you need your links to be across the Internet in multiple different ways. So it's very difficult to build up a blogosphere on a website with a captive audience.

Yeah.

Would you. The easier way to do that is to have your name associated with multiple publications and then like, publish in, like, this magazine. This magazine. This magazine.

How did you. How did you do that? Only because I'm thinking, like, kind of like for myself.

Approach magazines that are interested and just ask.

And do you. You wrote articles for them?

Yeah, so I write currently. I write for El Gourmet Canada, Foodism Holler.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

You just approach them. Be like, I think we should work together.

Okay.

Yeah.

Wow.

Can I write for your magazine? Do you have anyone that's writing for it? Is there a cost to publish in your magazine? If there's a cost to publish, then I'll sell something instantaneously. If I could submit an idea, then I can do that. So like, it's just all about being creative. Yeah, in that way. Yeah. So the. If you have a business where you're centered around this knowledge service, it is to your benefit to not fall into like this influencer hole. And by that I mean like this. It's very. A singular point of interaction. A website, a social media account. The better thing would be to be on multiple things because then your name and your links and your cross links are all connected. So now I'm on like four different TV channels. So if somebody searched me, it'll show up on four different networks.

Yeah.

If I write for six different publications, they'll all show up. So there. Then the network is larger. So therefore it proves the audience. Because if you have a service business and you have a client that could be potentially searching you, just like you found me.

Yeah.

Why does my name come up so often? Because it's engineered to be that way based on the business model. Because of the SEO.

Yeah. So I found you because I fell into your trap. In a good way. In a good way.

In a good way.

Yes.

All of this is in a good way. That's the funny thing is all of the work that I do is. Has this insidious, mildly manipulative nature to it, but in a good way. I swear, it's in a good. It's in a very good way. But marketing is that. Yeah, marketing is that. And I am a wonderful, likable person at the center of it. That's not trying to steal your information or be an awful tech company or anything like that. I am a nice human lady.

She is. I can vouch.

Thank you. So that. That's it. But having a company that fits in that space and acting within that space is perfect.

All right, future Stephen, write that all down and listen to that over again and figure something out.

Just think about it. Just think through it.

Yeah. Because that's. That's brilliant. Wow. And I can see it makes sense why you're so successful and so, like, well known. All right, my next question for you. What was the most difficult time in your career, and how did you get through that mess?

I think the funny thing is that because I work for myself for so long, I kind of have, like, my career and my life as part of, like, the same memories.

Okay. Yeah.

So, like, having bedbugs and not being able to, like, live in an apartment was very difficult, and that was, like, really, really hard.

Yeah.

Exiting from the importing agency, that was, like, the first actual business that I started that was profitable and moving in. It just wasn't working, and I was so upset about it. That was really difficult. The pandemic was really difficult. But then it turned out to be awesome because I got to work on this new company, and now there's no current awful things going on.

Knock on wood.

I had. I had burnout, like, two years ago, I realized later, but I don't think that affected my mental health on everything as much as those other things did.

Okay.

I think I just realized that I was just. Why am I so exhausted and tired? Because I was just working too much and then ended up restructuring my life to, like, not have as much work constantly and, like, started to put up boundaries of, like, don't eat in front of your desk and you own a kitchen, so you should do that and eat there. And on the weekends, you should spend time with your life partner who you love and want to spend time with. And, you know, maybe there is no need today to work past 7pm and you should stop. So, yeah, I think, like, putting. It's good to have drive, but putting boundaries around is really good. And I think, like, all of those things were very difficult. I am not the kind of person that will. I will not quit. I. I don't quit. That's it. Because I genuinely think I will succeed and I will win. I am delusional.

No, I need that delusion. Yes, this is good.

I genuinely think that I am really good at what I do and there is no way that I will not do it. And it's that. So it's that competitive joke of like, please, by all means, go ahead, do it. Beat me if you want to. I'll still be here. I will still be thriving.

Yeah.

Just delusional.

Yes. I love that. I need delusion. I need that. That type of delusion in my life. I have other kind of delusion, but I need that type of delusion.

Like professionalism and delusion together. Is the. The entrepreneur like magic?

That's the equation right there.

That's the equation. You need to be a professional.

Yeah.

But you also need to be delusional. You need to believe that you will. You will do it. It will just go your way because you did it. Yeah, that's it. There is no more reasoning. It will just go your way because you did it.

Yeah. Did you like that delusion was just innate in your human nature or was it something that you kind of built?

I think it's something that you build over time. I think it's something that you can train. It's just everything in your life is something you could train. You could learn everything. Like, to make a metaphor out of this. Everyone believes that sommeliers are born with great palates and can smell really well. I was a heavy smoker before I was became a sommelier. I just trained myself to be better at it. I think you can train yourself in all these aspects. Bodybuilders are not bodybuilders when they start. You ever see them in the beginning, they're all like, I was a skinny guy and then I went to the gym. Yeah. So I think there is a certain amount of imposter syndrome that comes with being part like every. I think everybody has it. I think straight white men kind of experience something Different. They experience like a am I good enough? Type of thing. But other people, I find they've experienced this imposter syndrome of why would I ever deserve this?

Okay.

And I feel like it is a specifically different thing. But I think people at the beginning of their careers, no matter what their cultural background and all that is, you tend to feel like you are up against everything that is there already and you want to make your space. Space in it. And that is difficult and comes with its own anxiety.

Yeah.

Now, there are ways around that because, you know, some. Because I have adhd, what I've always focused on doing is creating the most palatable version of myself for a space that I can keep up with and remain professional. So when I first started working in the wine industry and I was like, oh, I have to start talking to people. People more. Like, I like breaking restaurants. And I'm very talkative, but I have to start having more professional conversations with people. So when I would go into these spaces, I would always be like, I'm dressed for this conversation. I have my makeup on for this conversation. I look the way I feel like I am confident in looking. And that could be anything that doesn't have. That was just my thing.

Yeah.

That was my selection at the time. Like jeans and a blazer. Great. I am professional now. So I think that you can reverse engineer yourself to feel comfortable by picking a portion of your personality that would feel comfortable in that space and sticking with that.

Okay.

There's a lot of creativity in small spaces, and sometimes creating parameters that you can exist within will help you create a professional network. You don't. There is this fallacy of, like, I have to be honest. I have to be true to yourself. No, you don't. You don't. You actually don't majority of the time. Because if you want people to gravitate towards you, maybe being your most authentic self is not necessarily the best. Authenticity exists in multiple different facets.

Okay.

Even a portion of your personality that might be more professional has your authenticity. Authenticity in it.

Yes.

It's like those people that say, like, well, I'm just being honest, and then say something incredibly rude.

Okay.

Yeah. You weren't honest. You were rude.

Yeah.

And, you know, when you're in spaces with people that are older than you and ahead in their career in the same space, and you want to get their attention, the best thing for you to be is humble, authentic, and professional in any equation. What portion of your personality can you keep those three things up for at least two hours in interaction with Them.

Yeah, I see what you're talking about.

See what I mean? It is like that whole code switching and masking thing, but in a way, it's very, very, very useful for this.

Yes.

Especially if you come from a community of difference and you feel like you're in lack of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't understand that at first, but I. I got there because, you know, you're being professional. You're still. You're still holding true to yourself in certain ways, but you're still always be yourself. Yes. But you're presenting yourself in. Yes. Humble, professional sense. I see what you're saying, all that.

You'll always be yourself. But this is. When you find a diamond in the ground, it is a giant piece of what looks like mashed up glass.

Yeah.

They cut it to make it look pretty.

Yeah. That's like the. What's it called, that sculpture of. Not. Is it Michelangelo? That sculpture? It's like in the marble.

Yeah. Michael Angelo's David.

Yeah, David.

That's it.

Yes, the David. It's like that.

That. It was a giant block of marble. It was cut to look like that.

You know, it was always in there.

It was always in there. All of it is already there. But sometimes you just. You choose to do this in this way, and it does help you in your career.

Yes.

And it does push you forward, and it does give you more professional friends. And you do get to have this interaction with people that they warm up to you quickly because they see other professionals that are high up in that field. They don't want to talk to kids that are being lackadaisical about what they want. They don't care. Even when people ask me for mentorship now and they're like, what should I do in the industry? I'm like, you don't know what point portion of the industry you want to be in. Ah, you got to figure that out first.

Yeah.

I'm not helping you. You don't know anything. You have to at least come with majority of the thoughts. You can't say, I am. I am this. This virgin stone. Mold me. And like, I don't want to mold anyone. No professional wants to spend that much time.

Yeah, I understand that. Yeah.

Mentorship has a specific thing, but also professional relationships have a specific role. They don't want to help you that much. You should already be near to them.

Yeah. Because it's like, well, the person who's asking for the mentorship, it's like that person should already know who they are.

Who they are, what they want to do, why they're asking you for that mentorship, why they want to work professionally with you, why they want to be in this conversation, why they want the invitation to that event. And you should look like it.

Yes.

It will get you farther.

What was something that you had to learn the hard way, something that they don't teach in school?

Sometimes you are more naive than you think you are. And sometimes people are not your friends, even though you are friendly to them.

Okay. And do you have any examples of

like, you know, I think like, it is, it is really nice to put trust in people.

Mm.

But there is like these, these old Italian sayings where it's like, you can truly only trust your family. And it in a way, like, it does make a lot of sense. And in also, like a queer way, like, you do choose your family and that also becomes like your close circle of friends. So that, that also gets, like, adopted into that as well. Like, you can trust your family.

Yeah.

But you also pick your family too. So those people then become your close circle of trust. And those are the people. Those are the only people in your life that actually want you to succeed and will not be upset. Upset if you go succeed more than them. And they won't try to tear you down because they really want you to succeed just as much as you want them to succeed. Everybody outside of that is not to be as fully trusted. And if they want to be part of that circle, then you have to wait and watch and see what they do. And don't be naive because you might be proven that this is not a trust worthy relationship. And you know, it's not not to have these relationships. It's just sometimes relationships have limits.

Yeah, I think it was. Oh, my God, I'm forgetting who said this. Micah Angelou.

Maya Angelou.

Maya Angelou. That's it. Sorry. Maya Angelou said when somebody shows you who they are, you believe them the first time.

Yes, exactly. So. And you know what? On to that people will show you who they are. And sometimes people show you who they are. And it's not that they're awful people people, it's just they will not go farther than that point.

Yeah.

So that is where your relationship ends. This is not the person to call for an issue or something. This is not the person to bring in a favor from. This is not the person that you can rely on. And that's fine. You still should look at your life in this very pragmatic way and the people that you should trust the most and really focus on Are the people that are part of that family and close circle of friends.

Yeah.

Don't be naive and think that everyone cares about you like you care about them.

Yeah, that's true. If you could go back in time and talk to your younger self, who is just about to start their first job in the industry, what advice would you give them?

Don't get into business with those people who have an importing company. That's it.

That's it. All right. Bam. How do you keep learning and keep growing in your industry?

You should always run towards what other people are afraid of.

Okay.

Especially. Well, not, like, put your bodily harm in a way.

No, no.

Like. Like, I don't know, academically run towards the people. Right now, everybody's really afraid of AI. Yeah, they're really, really afraid of it. The people that aren't afraid of it are going to be the people that move forward in the future. And I happen to be someone who's not afraid of AI. I actually think that there's a lot of. There's a lot of benefit to it. I do think that there is. And honestly, I'm talking as a childless person who's never going to have kids or raise the next generation or anything like that, but I think that having a healthy understanding of what the kind of scary or unknown things are of the future to come. Because as you. I was born in 1990. When I went to school, there was floppy disk. My phone, my. My house phone when I was a kid had a long cord. I remember when we got cordless phones, we had a computer room. And then I got a laptop. Like, there's so much technology in my lifetime. I even remember when I was a kid, there is this. I went to a sleepover and this dad that picked up his daughter was talking to my dad, basically describing an iPhone. It was like, he's like, yeah, there's going to be no buttons. It's just going to be a screen that you touch. Like, I remember these people having this conversation. There's been so much technology in my lifetime, and I think technology is what people are always afraid of. But you can see the world changing. If you choose to be blind to it, you will be afraid. I think you should always look at what everyone else is afraid of, because if they're afraid of it, but they're not gonna be harmed by it, why are they afraid? What's the scary thing? What is it? Oh, it doesn't want to be turned off. This or that thing. I get that. But, like, why is it being used in that perspective, like, let's think critically about this. Let's move into that perspective. In my industry, people are so afraid of AI that they think that it's going to replace wine professionals. There's no original thought in AI. There's none. There's no original thought, Nothing. You know what it's really great for? It's great for helping me research hashtags. Now I don't have to do that anymore. Helping me research SEO, helping me reformat an article to make it more readable. What if I didn't put the article in the right format? What if I, what if I write the whole thing and I want, I'm like, I don't think that this flowing. Right. What's a more readable way for this to exist? What would make this more watchable? What would make somebody pay more attention to this? Yeah, that's the beauty of AI that's really useful.

I mean, yeah, it's there. Might as well use it.

And I don't have to think about it now. This other thing is doing it and I don't have to do it now. I have to edit my own emails. It'll edit it for me now. I don't have to deal with this stuff. It'll do it for me. You know, you have to have this pragmaticism in it and you also, if you have the ability to look at everything that's around you, then you can use it usefully. There's AI tools out there that'll make a whole podcast for you from a book. Do you know how much I would have loved that when I was studying wine? That would have been amazing.

Yeah.

Now I use it to study new things because I'll upload a whole book into it and be like, make a podcast out of this book and I'll listen to it while I'm driving or running errands. Because it can do that. Yeah. I did not know that there is AI that. Not chatgpt, but other AI that can do that. Because I am a 35 year old person with a whole life and a house to take care of. And sometimes Saturdays are just filled with going to eight different places to pick up things.

Yeah.

There is no time to study. You have this, this beauty of extra time when you're young and you lose that as you get older and everything feels like it's so fast. It felt like it was January two weeks ago.

I know, right?

Right.

Yeah.

So this thing will give me some time back. Great.

Yeah. Might as well use it. And I feel Like, I keep quoting people, but Robert Iger, the past CEO of Disney, he said, like, one of the reasons that Disney has been able to stay around for so long is because of his motto. And his motto is innovate or die.

Yeah.

Because you have to constantly keep innovating and keep growing, or else the company's gonna die.

Exactly.

Yeah.

They're very smart. They update all their rides during recessions when it's cheaper.

Do they really?

Yep.

I did not know that.

Fun fact.

And I'm a Disney fanatic, so there you go. That's why I got into animation.

But that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

What do you do on those days when you just feel, like, unmotivated? Like, you just feel like. Like a sour bottle of wine? Like, how do you reset your emotions?

Work on the easiest thing. Work on the thing that's easiest. There's work has to get done.

Yeah.

So, you know, maybe I don't feel like sending out invoice reminders or making contracts today, because that feels boring. I have to edit 20 photos. I'm gonna start with that. And I'm gonna put a TV show that I like on in the background, and I'm gonna edit 20 photos.

Yeah.

Start with the thing that's easiest. And usually, like, sometimes it just takes, like, a win in the day to make you feel better.

Yeah.

So why not just, like, set up an easy win?

That's so true.

And then you'll probably be fine. Yeah, by lunch, you'll probably be fine. You're hungry, you did something, then you got hungry, then you ate, then you

feel great, maybe went for a nap. Now you're fine.

You're fine. Just set up a win.

Yeah.

Just. Why make your life harder? Just set up a win.

Wow. I'm gonna start doing that. Stephen. Write that down right now. And you're gonna do that every single day.

There you go. You should set up a win.

All right, I do. I have one more question for you, but I have some personal questions that I wrote down that I wanted to ask you first. What was the most expensive bottle of wine that you've ever tasted?

So during the pandemic, a friend. I didn't have to pay a lot of money for this wine, which is great. I actually somehow convinced people to give me very expensive wines for either nothing or very cheap. I don't know how.

If it works. You get it. You get it.

It works. I have. I was born 1990, which is a stellar vintage around the world. It's one of the most talked about written about vintages. 1990 is great.

Well, lots of good things came out of that year.

Lots of great things came out of that year. Exactly. But it's a great vintage in a lot of places. So usually when I mention that at a winery, they're like, we have a 1990 vintage and they'll open it because wine people, after a few glasses get really happy to like, taste people's back vintages with them.

Yeah.

So I've tasted a lot of my own vintage, which right now is very expensive because it's 2025. I also, during the pandemic, a friend of mine's grandparents were just basically selling off their cellar. They're too old to finish everything. I think they were like 87. So I bought a 12 pack case for 400 bucks and it had a bunch of 1985 Bordeaux in it. 1983, 1982. And I spent like 400 bucks for the whole case. That would have been worth like, well in a bunch more. All of the wines that I mentioned would be anywhere from. And this isn't even on a wine list at a restaurant because those will all be marked up. They're probably. Their value would be anywhere from like 5 to 7,000 to 10,000. Per bottle.

Per bottle?

Yeah. Depending on. On what it is. The house, if it's from a notable region. So.

Wow.

Yes. That would probably be the most expensive. But I have not paid for that.

Yeah. Good for you.

Thank you. I'm very proud of that.

Yes. Okay. I also wanted to ask, like, for myself, like, if I wanted to kind of learn how to expand my palette when it comes to wines, do you have any, like, beginners, like, I have

a good tip for people usually is first. The first and best thing that you can do if you want to expand your palette is to tell yourself that it's not just important if you like the wine. It's also important to tell yourself in real words, why do you not like it? You can't just say, I don't like this. Why don't you like it? What specifically about it do you not like? What specifically about it do you like? So that's a first mental step.

Yeah.

Then what I tell people often is if you're buying wine at the lcbo, and say you're buying the same thing over and over, say you're drinking Pinot Grigio and you, you're constantly, you're like, I will go to the LCBO and I will buy this 10.95 Pinot Grigio and I like it. And I'm happy with that, but I want to explore more wines. You know what? Set yourself a budget, and maybe you like white wines. Go and pick a white wine within that budget. Pick it by the label. Pick a different region, and just taste it. With the idea that I might like this and I might not like this, but I will learn something whether I like it or not.

Okay.

That is where the academics and the learning comes in, because people think that they should like everything they buy. And sometimes you take a risk and you don't like it, but that's where the learning comes in. It's a mistake. You learned. You didn't like. Okay, great. Now you realize I don't like Gewerstraminer. I tried it. I don't like it. Whatever. Done. Or I don't like this or I don't like that. Whatever it is.

Yeah.

So you learned that, but you wouldn't have learned it without that. So therefore, you have now expanded your knowledge. Yeah, that's it.

That's very true. And once again, quoting someone, the very first person I ever interviewed, he's a real estate agent. And. And something that he said a lot, which I really take to heart now, is like, if you're gonna fail, at least fail forward. Learn from your failures so you can grow as a person and learn. Like, that is. That's very smart. It is a great way to live.

That's why, like, set a budget.

Yeah.

Set. Do not spend more money than you want to spend. Do not, like, make reasons for you to be upset at yourself. Just go into it openly.

Yeah.

You might not like it, but you might like it, but you won't know.

Yeah.

You have to try it.

Yeah. Yeah. You have to try it to see what is, like, the worst faux pas that you've ever seen. Like, in wine. Like, maybe like in when you've gone out to dinner or when you've been tasting wine.

The thing that the worst faux pas, I think, that customers do the most is that when you get poured that first little taste of wine, it is not to. For you to tell the sommelier or the person if you like it or not.

Oh, okay. I did not know that.

Yeah. So a lot of people think that they're tasting it to see if they like it or not. That's not it. That's not it. You should have already had that conversation with the sommeliers. And wine professionals in restaurants are not there to upsell you. They are there to sell you something that you will like. Okay, that conversation is supposed to happen before the bottle opens, they should be using all their knowledge and information to figure out that these are good options for you.

Oh, okay.

You should like it when you taste it. You're tasting if its quality is sound, if it's not corked. Now, people think that they're not going to be able to taste cork, but I guarantee you it tastes like soggy cardboard and acetone. You will. You will know when it's corked. It is obvious.

Okay.

Obvious when it's corked. So obvious. I literally. Last time I worked at a restaurant was a while.

It was.

It's like, been since 2019. Then I remember this guy that I was serving literally said that, and the wine was corked. He's like, oh, my God. I know it now. I get it. Like, you will know. So that's the biggest faux pas I think people have. I also think on top of that is people think that sommeliers and other people are trying to upsell them. They're not trying to upsell you. They do want to sell you something that they think that you would like. And maybe you don't like the. The price of what you would like. And maybe you have champagne taste on a beer budget. But also, you know, be honest about your. You can always go to them and be like, hey, I am looking for. I want to find a wine that I like or that I would like, and I don't want to spend more than blank dollars a bottle. Some restaurants, their entry price is 50 bucks a bottle. Some you might be comfortable spending, like, 100 bucks a bottle. So put a dollar amount on it and say, like, I don't want to spend more than this per bottle. This is my price range.

Okay.

Okay. What do you think I would like? And then they'll ask you a series of questions to figure out what you like

do. I mean, maybe it's different from restaurant to restaurant, but do sommeliers, do they get paid usually, like, a flat rate, or do they make commission off the bottles that they sell?

Since the pandemic, everything has changed. So right now we have. In restaurants, you'll find that there's a lot of restaurant manager slash sommelier positions where they're doing two jobs. It's the same thing that happened during, like, the 2008 financial crisis.

Okay.

When I was working as a sommelier, I got paid a flat salary rate, but then I also got paid a percentage of overall alcohol sales for the evening, which was when I was there. When I was working, it was 2.5%. So if they sold $20,000 in alcohol for the evening. You would make like, an extra 250 bucks.

Oh, my God. They can make that much money in one night.

Alcohol sells on a Friday and a Saturday night. $20,000 in alcohol sales at a 300 person restaurant. Very easy. Pre pandemic stuff was awesome.

Maybe I should, you know, maybe. Maybe I'll get into that, but I'll think about that.

The service industry has changed.

Yeah.

But yeah. So I'd say that that's probably the biggest faux pas. I can't think of another one. And I think people are genuinely shocked on that one.

So, like, when. When they bring the small days bring the wine to the table, you're supposed to, like, look at it and see.

You just. All you have to do is smell it and taste it and be like, this tastes great.

Okay.

That's it. Yeah, that's all.

Okay. I'm gonna start doing this just so I look professional. Like, I look like I know what I'm doing, even though I'm still like, yeah, clueless and learning.

The other thing that would be great for you to do that will just signal to a sommelier that you know what you're doing is to never grab the wine glass by the bowl and to only grab it by the stem.

Yes. I thought that was common knowledge.

It is not.

Okay, but why? Because, like, when you grab it by the bowls, like, you're gonna make it warm by your hand touching.

You know what? That's exactly why the glasses developed that way. You reduce that correctly.

Oh, okay. It.

I don't know why people think. I don't know. This is the one that perplexes me the most because it's literally set up to.

For your win.

Used. Yes, it is set up for. It is set up to be used in this specific way, yet it is not. This one perplexes me. I don't understand. Why would you do it? It has a handle.

I mean, actually, there are. I've seen wine glasses that don't have it.

There are stemless ones. That's fine. But if it has a stem, it has a handle.

Yes.

Why would you.

Oh, well, that's good to know. You're like, oh, that person doesn't know what they're doing because they're holding it by.

Exactly. You could be like that first. That person's a newbie. Yeah.

Oh, you. Then you go over there, have a, like, whisper in their ear and like, you're welcome.

Oh, my God. Done.

All right. I think those are all the questions that I had and Now, I would. My final question for you.

Ready?

Final question for you is, tell me what makes you feel successful.

H. You know, that's a funny thing because I'm not somebody that's sees success be defined by money, but I do like seeing a growing bank account. So that does. I think, like, for me, it's when. It's when I see a reach out from a new client that has heard about me from somebody else, and they want to have like a full conversation and they book a bunch of stuff. I'm like, great. This is amazing. I didn't have to sell them anything. I didn't have to meet them anywhere. I didn't have to shake their hand and sell them on who I was. They heard about that from someone else and already saw my work. That's great. That's a success to me.

Yeah.

Other markers of success are always like, the bank account is growing. I'm making a savings account for my retirement. All those things. I think you've defined success in many ways as you move through life. And I think that if you take the time to think about what you want your life to include, then there are straight up markers of success. If you want to have a life that's filled with a family, then what would be a marker of success for them? Your kid going and doing a good job in school. That's how some people might define it, right?

Yeah, but.

Okay, that might not be you.

Nope.

So if that's not you, like, what does your life look like? What is a marker of success? Do you want to own a house? Do you want to travel more? Is the fact that you're doing this. I think there's personal life successes and then there's also entrepreneurial business career successes. In the career sense, it's somebody finding out about me and booking a whole thing that I didn't have to sell.

Yeah.

They just. It got word of mouth.

Well, because I feel like it's also easier for you when people come to you, because then I don't know why I'm comparing it to this, but it's almost like you're Gandalf, you know, and like the fellowship's coming to you and you're like, yes, I'll help you. I'll point you in the right direction of what, where you need to go.

I am not this kind of dork, but okay, great.

It's a good thing. It's a good thing.

Okay, cool.

Gandalf is a good thing.

It's a good comparison. Yeah.

Gandalf, yes.

Gandalf is a good thing. I know that. This is Lord of the Rings.

Is it? Yes, it is.

It is great. I did not know.

That's okay. As long as you know it's a good thing.

I know it's a good thing. Now I have learned. Look at this new information I've now added to my lexicon of information.

Yeah. I think Gandalf is probably my favorite characters in Lord of the Rings. So it's a good thing.

Amazing.

Yeah. And also, like, as to what you were saying about goals as well, I guess, like, because everyone's goal, everyone has different goals in life. So it's like when you put those personal goals or those professional goals in for your life, and then once you achieve those, that's. That's success and can be any kind of goal. Small goals, big goals.

I think. I think a lot of times people get a little bit. It kind of feels like the rest of society has laid out your life for you. And these are things that you're supposed to do.

Yeah.

But they're not. Like, it's your life. You could do what you want, but people don't take the time to critically think about what they would like in life.

Mm.

I think everyone's waiting for these unsaid things to happen. But you can also just ask for them and just say, like, this is what I want. I want at some point in my life to have, like, a house and be married and do this and do that. I want to have a successful business. I want to have an Airbnb that I can also visit. Like, whatever it is, you can just say that and then that's what you want to do.

Yeah.

Then you just, over time, you're like, this is. This is the professional things and these are the personal things that I want. That's what I want. Because I've decided and thought about it.

Yeah. That was amazing.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me. I really, really do appreciate it. And let everybody know where they can. Can find you.

Yeah. So everything is connected through the wine by Renee Instagram account. Just make it simple and easy. Just go there.

Perfect.

Very, very matter of fact person.

Simple. Oh, it's. It's easier for people to find you that way as well. So thank you again.

Thank. You.