Nelson Nash's Legacy: Richard Canfield Shares Insights on Infinite Banking and Personal Growth

Hey everyone, it's Jack with Real Deal Crew. And I was recently reminded that I've been in real estate now for over nine years and many of us get into this seeking financial freedom, but more importantly, freeing up our time for more important things such as our family. Unfortunately, many of us fall into the trap where we've created another job. And if you're in that situation where you aren't finding enough time to squeeze the more important things in, maybe it's time for a chat. So I'm going to invite you to go over to realdealcrew.com schedule a no obligation free strategy session and we can talk about your current business processes, tools and techniques that you can implement right away to free up your most valuable resource, your time. Grab your time slot@realdealcrew.com and I look forward to chatting with you very soon.

Welcome to the REI Mastermind Network where host Jack Hoss gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing. In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works, what they've tried, that failed. And best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing to the next level. Now here's Jack with another value packed episode.

We have Richard Canfield with me here today and we're going to talk a little bit about infinite banking and what everything that has to everything around that. But you have a unique situation in which you learned from the originator or at least what I think is the originator of this concept. So we're going to dive into that relationship a little bit as well. But Richard, I really appreciate your time and you can learn more about what he and his team are up is up to by going to Seven Steps. There's going to be a free download there for everybody. So it's seven Steps ca if you look in the show notes, I'll make that a clickable link. But Richard, I really appreciate your time here today.

Happy to be with you Jack. You have an amazing program. I love what you're doing with the network, how you're connecting people together and really making an impact for others both in the real estate community, the listeners that attend and listen the show and it's a pleasure to be with you because I love being able to share a little bit about what you do. But more importantly, I love to try to add value to other people's lives and being on a program where that's happening with every episode that comes out is really a blessing to parlay into.

That a little bit this is particularly of interest because your mentor is R. Nelson Nash, the fellow who I see as the person who started this whole concept of infinite banking. I'm just going to be a different question than I think you typically receive, but could you start with how you established that mentorship and how you approached him to earn that relationship and trust?

Yeah, I love the question. And Nelson, man, he was an enigma. There's certain people that come into your life and I'm sure, Jack, you can list a number of these off the top of your head that for whatever reason, they leave this lasting impression and a mark on you that is unshakable. The moment you meet them, you just know there's something different about that individual. Nelson Nash was that kind of guy and he was that guy for a lot of people. Thankfully, I'm in very good company with others who were able to be blessed to know him. I first met Nelson in February of 2012 and we have an annual conference for authorized infinite banking practitioners that happens generally in usually it's in Birmingham, Alabama, which was Nelson's hometown. And it's typically was the weekend after Super Bowls. Usually when it happens, it was my first time being down at Birmingham and being at that event. And it was right before they launched the authorized practitioner program and I had not attended, I had not met Nelson before I had his book. We had been teaching this in Canada where I'm located and you know, now we teach people all over North America about this, Nelson's work, Nelson's principles. But at the time we only had his book as a reference point and we were doing our best job with what we had to work with up in Canada. And so when I met Nelson for the first time, I attended his two day seminar. Nelson's book, the book becoming your own banker. He says right in the very first paragraph that this is the workbook for a 10 hour seminar. So I got to attend that 10 hour seminar live and in person. And I remember at the time that happened it felt like I had a new hard drive dropped right into my head. It was just like, it was just an unbelievable experience to listen to him talk through his own history, his own life, and then relate through comedy. Great, well time jokes and just he just had an ability to captivate a room of people and really engage and connect with them. So he was a master, I think, at that and certainly at his knowledge base at the time. And then moving forward we would attend that event every single year and would spend more and more time with Nelson. And then we started bringing Nelson up to kids Canada and hosting him for his seminar and bringing him in front of our clients and giving him a chance to share his message. And so one of the last two times I got to see Nelson. So in 2016 was when the year that Nelson stopped doing live presentations. I mean at one point in time he was traveling and doing 70 different seminars a year at different all over the North America. And the last year he did a pretty good stint and he was 85 years old at that time and still just giving her. And we hosted him in Kelowna, British Columbia, which is not far from me, beautiful area. And it was a two day event for, for advisors. And then two weeks later I flew down to Texas to hang out with a friend of mine who is down there and was hosting Nelson and I got to spend some more time with Nelson there. And as far as your question about like when how did I approach him about being a mentor? Nelson was the most approachable person you could ever meet in your life. And Nelson, I didn't really need to approach Nelson. He just actively provided and offered mentorship. He just gave and he gave and he gave and he gave at, at every point in time. And, and then Nelson would do these interesting things where you just get a random phone call from him all the time and he would, he would also just send you books. And so every once in a while I get a book in the mail with an ins, a note from Nelson and he used to mention things. He says, all I'm looking to do is find high quality seeds and plant them in fertile soil. And he would say Jack, you're fertile soil. And he would just vest in with you and he would check in with how you were doing. He would ask you about your knowledge, understanding of the concept. And I remember being in Nelson's home a number of times and he had this, he had this coffee table. It was like this really thick wood coffee table in his office den. And it was like a three inch coffee table. It was big circle, roughly four and a half, almost five feet in kind of diameter. And, and the whole table was just stacked with books. Three, four, five books in a row. And each one of those books was the smallest one was about an inch thick. But the whole book, you couldn't get your feet on the table. He probably wouldn't let you do that anyway. But there was just no room for even a cup of coffee. It was just stacked with books and they all had post it notes in them. He was this avid reader and learner and in fact On Nelson's website, which is infinitebanking.org he has a recommended reading list. And there's over 250 books on there that Nelson has read and recommended. And he would say, hey, Richard, if you went and read all those books, you'd have the equivalent of a PhD in Austrian economics and history. And you can't understand economics without first understanding history. So he was just this avid reader and he sought knowledge. He was curious, like a Curious George. And so I really learned a lot from him, not only about the concept of infinite banking, which he is the creator of, he developed, but also in how to think about relationships. I learned a lot about marriage from Nelson and his wife Mary. They were married for. And I, I hope Nelson's not listening. He, he doesn't, I get the number wrong, but close to 60 years and you know, they, you gotta go through some stuff to be able to maintain something magical like that. They had three children, they had numerous grandchildren and great grandchildren. And when Nelson passed away. So we just crossed the four year anniversary of when Nelson graduated and he was, he had just passed his 88th birthday. Nelson used to say he was 88 revolutions around the sun. And he was calling people from a hospital room and checking in with them in his very last days. That's the kind of guy that he was. He never stopped working. But to him it wasn't work, it was a gift. He didn't believe in the idea of retirement. A lot of people who listen to podcasts like yours and mine, well, at Bay street they're after this idea, this dream of this vision of this thing called retirement. Nelson thought the word retirement was a swear word. He thought it was the dirtiest word in the English language. He believed in passive income. He understood what people placed or what they thought this idea of retirement is. But if you really broke it down, you understood. The first time the word retirement shows up in the English language was Otto von Bismarck, the Chancellor of Germany in the late 1890s. And they created this idea as a way to, you know, reward people who were past their lifespan because the living age, if you outlived what the mortality age was and you were still working with, okay, you get a pass, we'll, we'll make sure the government looks after you, essentially. And it was to create an opening for a young person to step into that job role because, so that other person could leave and then they could create a position because it was, it was just a very different mindset. So this idea of retirement that's been bombarding people for the last hundred years really is a bit of a falsehood. What we want is we want freedom and we want freedom with passive income. We want an ability to do the things we want to do when we want to do them at our own schedule and enjoy life. That's really what it is. So call it what it is. The word, in my opinion of a retirement, it means to be put out of service. If you think about watching old, like British television, they say, oh, I'm going to retire for the evening. Well, what does that mean? You're going to go to sleep. So retirement is just like the big sleep. And he just really fundamentally didn't believe in that. And so he really recognized that and he instilled in me and he wanted me to transfer that on to others, that you are of value and you can constantly add value to the world. Don't ever stop doing that. In other words, don't stop is really the fundamental message that he wanted to get across when it comes to the idea of retirement. So I don't know if I answered your question, but there's a lot to unpack with what I got from, from the late Nelson Nash.

I think what is striking is the fact that your core business is the concept, this infinite banking concept. But it sounds like you learned some far more valuable lessons in the other realms of life.

Oh, there was just so much to learn. I, I'll tell you a quick story. So this was probably in 2013 or maybe 2014. I was down in Birmingham. We were at our annual conference. It's amazing conference, great environment, collaborative activity, getting together. And usually there was a bit of a social event and a guest speaker that would come in, usually an Austrian economic economist or something like that with the Mises Institute that would come and speak. And we were having some beverages and Nelson liked to have a Merlot after dinner. And I was having a chat with Nelson. We're up at the the bar grabbing a wine or what have you and we just got to chatting and then he, we step across the side to let other people through and there was a blank table right there. And Nelson, I don't remember how our conversation started, but he ended up setting his wine glass down on the edge of the table and he said, richard, imagine this table. It was just blank, there was nothing else on it. Imagine this table represents all of the knowledge in the known universe, all of the everything that there is possible to know. Then he picked up the glass and he highlighted the bottom of the glass. He says, now this, this glass, the bottom of this glass represents everything that I know, all the things that I've been able to take in and learn in my human existence. He put the glass on the edge of the table. He says, now look at the outer ring of the glass. See where it's exposed to that which I do not know. Okay? So I know this little tiny bit of everything there is to know. Then he went, he asked me, say, richard, go grab that jug over there. So I went and grabbed a water jug. There was like a pitcher, basically a water pitcher with ice. And I brought it over and he said, yeah, just set it down right there. So I set it down. And he says, now imagine I go and increase my knowledge. I expand my horizons, I do some reading, I go get an educate. I continue to grow and learn and learn. I've increased the size of my jug, of my knowledge. When he picked it up and he says, look at the bottom, the circumference is much bigger. But if you place it back down and you look at its relevance to everything that is unknown, look at how much more I am exposed to that which I do not know. So the key takeaway was that the more, the more that you didn't know and that there's this ever increasing expansion of what's possible to learn in the world. In real estate, in investing, in life, in marriage, in relationships, in podcasting, right? There's all these areas of constant expanse. And don't ever. One of the things that Nelson talks about in his book, he talks about this thing called the arrival syndrome. There is no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. As soon as that happens for you and you think that you know it all, you might as well pack it in and give up because you're done.

So you brought up the Austrian economics a couple times here now, and I've only had one other person on the show who brought that up. And frankly, it's not news to the listeners that I'm pretty staunch libertarian. So when you bring up Austrian economics, it does my heart good to hear that. In fact, I had the previous guest who brought it up actually believes that could be somebody's superpower right now, especially in our current economic conditions. If you have a strong understanding of Austrian economics, you're probably better off than.

Most at the moment. The knowledge based understanding what human action is all about. Mises, with his epic work of human action, that's really the fundamental basis of, in my opinion, all economics. I don't really think it should be called Austria, I just think it should be called economics.

Personally, but unfortunately not the case. Not the case.

And Nelson, so Nelson studied, he was an avid study of Austrian economics for over 50 years and he discovered it because he went to a party year back, this was back in like the early 60s and someone handed him a magazine of, from fee, the foundation for Economic Education. And he actually, he met Mises. Leonard E. Reed, who was the co founder of the foundation for Economic Education was Nelson Nash's mentor. So he was glued to Austrian economics and he would tell stories about what he learned from his mentor Leonard Reed. And because of the way that Leonard poured into him, that's why that's other than just the fundamental good nature of Nelson Nash. That's why he gave the way that he did, because he was able to receive, he wanted to reciprocate. And the law of reciprocity I think is really important. I think it's actually, although maybe it's not stated anywhere, I do believe that it has some fundamental connection to the idea of Austrian economics. And so many people, including Robert Murphy, who is, you know, probably the most published Austrian economist today, he was one of the founding members of the Infinite Banking Institute and he wrote the course curriculum for that. And so Robert's an amazing guy. A friend of mine, I've done karaoke with Robert, he's a great, he's actually an amazing singer to be honest. And, and so he and many others have described Nelson's work of becoming your own banker. The idea of the infinite banking concept as Austrian economics in action. It is a methodology that allows you as an individual, regardless of what you're doing in your investing or your working life, your real estate career or what have you, to be able to harness the power and secede from a financial environment that's not designed to look after you. So Nelson said that you don't need to get in order to change things like the funny money system and fractional reserve and all this stuff. Everyone's trying to do it with top down thinking. Nelson says you'll never get it done with top down thinking. You need a bottom up solution. That's what IBC is, it's a bottom up solution to a top down problem. And so if you want to tackle the issue of inflation first you need to separate yourself from the system that's creating it. That's the banking in cartels and system. You need to get out of that environment and you can slowly and peacefully secede without asking permission by simply implementing a profitable financial strategy that allows you more control over your own money on a day to day Basis just to.

Remind everybody to head over to seven Steps CA for that free download and learn a little bit more about this. But to change focus a little bit, you already brought up the infinite banking. Could we spend just a little brief, a brief amount of time? Because you even brought it up. We've had other infinite Banker type people on the show, but I think it's good to have that kind of 101 level of what we're even talking about here.

Yeah, and you've had amazing people on the show by the way, some good friends of mine and you know, the infinite banking people like to think of it as a product or a strategy. I just don't think that's correct. I think infinite banking is a way of life. See we bank every day. You can't do anything in the world without banking. Banking is the movement of money from one party to another in a relatively short period of time. That's what, that's a transactional environment of what banking is. If banking stops, the whole world screeches to a halt. Okay. Is a fundamental tenet in everything that we do every day. So you are the banker in your life right now. The difference is how much of that banking equation do you control as it relates to your needs and that of your family? More often than not you're abdicating the responsibility of that to a third party. You know, the Wachovia's and the bank of America's and the RBCs and the whoevers of the world. And so you're moving your money into their custody. And if we've had some bank failures recently, so how much of that you really want to be doing? I'm not so certain. But you're moving into their custody and you're giving up ownership of that money. And now you get an IOU slip that says hey, on demand. They had to pay this money. Well that's only if the money is there. All right? And so you want to be able to control that environment. And if you move your deposits and you're borrowing business away from the commercial banking sector and you do the same activity of depositing money or through the way of premium, which builds an ever compounding machine and accessing loans and lending requirements that you need in life through the insurance company, through policy loans, a company that you co own, you are solving the banking equation in your life. And so Nelson talked about the importance of working with a mutual insurance carrier to set up participating whole life policy. It's well designed, well structured for and customized for your needs. Which means there's no one way to do it. It's unique to your circumstance and that's why you need a coach to help you do that. And you redirect the flow of money. As money is walking through your life and it's flowing through everyone else is getting all the money. You want to intercept as much of that as possible and flow some of it through the books of the insurance company that you co own. Because you're a co owner in the company, they share their profits with you. So when you borrow money for a real estate flip, or for renovations on a property, or to replace the furnace or the hot water tank, or to put a basement suite in, or for a down payment on your real estate practice, you can multitask that money. And you're borrowing money from an entity that you're a co owner of. It's okay to pay interest to an entity that you co own because you get to share in all the profits. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And that, that's actually a very unique way of putting it because a lot of people, when they hear whole life insurance, frankly, I think most, most have a bad taste in our mouth from.

That term and there's a lot of reasons for that. The industry's done us no favors on, on, on helping us think about what that tool is. But the, the way I look at it is this, Jack, you've probably seen a chainsaw before. I don't know if you've ever used one.

All the time actually.

Oh, okay, great. Then you and I'd be fast friends. I'm a big fan of a chainsaw and, and it's a really powerful tool. It does you. Everyone knows what it does. It cuts down trees. It's unmistakable what you're going to do with this thing. If you've got a chainsaw, it's a gas powered, it's maybe it's got a unique fuel mix to it. You got the fuels all in there, you got the chain oil in, you've sharpened the saw blade, you're ready to go, you fire it up. I give it a couple, that sound that it makes, you get a couple of those going first and then some guy walks by the path beside me and I just say, hey buddy, here you go. And I hand him the chainsaw and I turn around and I walk away. Well, what's the probability? Low, medium or high that person might seriously injure themselves if they've never seen a chainsaw before? It's pretty high. And not only that, what's the chance that they could Break the tool low, medium, or high.

That's also pretty high, very high.

And so the problem wasn't the chainsaw. The tool isn't the problem. The user is the problem. Okay, so the tool in the hands of the fool is no tool at all. That's something that we learned from Nelson Nash. And so you need the right tool for the job. But a tool is just a tool. You could cut down the tree with an ax. You could use a drywall saw. God, that'll take you a long time. You could use a hacksaw. That's gonna. That's gonna really take forever. There's a lot of things you could use to do the same job, but one of them is gonna be a lot more efficient than the other. So whole life insurance is just a tool. The productivity or the utilization in that tool has nothing to do with the insurance company, and it has to do with the owner of the policy contract. That's the one that makes it all run. Your behavior and your interaction with your banking system in relation to using these policy contracts is far more important than whatever the insurance company can do. In fact, I was on with a gentleman before you and I hopped on this call and I literally showed him that the difference of him making an additional deposit into the system was of $50,000 was a $350,000 impact 30 years down the road. And that difference wouldn't have happened if he didn't demonstrate the appropriate behavior. So behavior is really important, no different than behavior in your real estate practice and how you manage tenants. You continue you learning, you listen to good podcasts, you're growing, you're learning better marketing skills, how to deal with different lending rules. Your behavior as a real estate investor has a direct impact into the success of your real estate. Same thing.

One of the things that I noticed when I was reading through your website and a few other things is something called, and maybe I don't have this pronounced correctly, Colby A Index. What is that and what does that have to do with this?

Yeah, very good question. Many of your listeners might be familiar with the Colby A Index. It has nothing to do with ibc, but Kolbe K O L B E is Kathy Kolbe created the Kolbe index, which is a. It's a measurement of your natural, instinctual ways of getting things done. So I'm an avid learner, much like Nelson was, as I indicate that you are. And I like to know how I work and operate in the world. And the more I understand that, the more I can double down on my natural gifts and talents. Does that make sense? And I think anyone, especially in the real estate investor category or anyone who's entrepreneurial in business, you need to truly understand your natural way of doing things. So Colby identifies for you, it's not a personality based assessment, it's an instinct based assessment. It helps you understand, if given a problem or a set of things to solve, how you would instinctually go about doing that. And it helps you point out certain areas where you might be in conflict or in friction with what maybe a lot of the rest of the world is doing. And so I first learned about that, I believe, geez, it might have been in 2011 or 12. And it really opened my eyes. And honestly, had I known about it 10 years earlier, my life would have been a lot simpler. So it really helped me understand more about me and, and how I, I felt like I was, I guess, in conflict maybe to some degree with what the rest of the world was up to, what they thought I should be doing, not being able to follow in line and follow a plan and being a little bit more chaotic in the way I got things done. Multitasking, I'm actually designed to multitask. That's actually something that's okay for me to do, even though everyone told me that you shouldn't do that. So Colby really helped me develop and hone some of my entrepreneurial skills, and it also helped me understand that I can produce a ton of value by doing things very differently than everyone else does.

That's one of those interesting things I, we, I, my wife and I did quite a while ago. We took a personality test together. And it was the first time that I was actually took it honestly, if that makes sense, because you start to, you take those tests in the past, and I even took a test like that in high school to try to ascertain what you're best suited for career wise. But you typically ask the way you answer those questions the way you want to, you hope you'd answer them instead of the what, what's factual and what you actually are. So it, when I took that the last time, it really helped to have my wife sitting there going, no, that's actually not the case. Check me on a couple things as we're progressing through this test.

What's cool about that is you and your wife did it together and you both probably have one, I'm guessing, I don't know. But then it creates a new level of communication for you guys where, you know, if there's always moments of Friction that come up in those kind of relationships as well. And so something like Colby or an assessment like that, it can be a bit of a mediator to some degree with those. So you just pull them out of the drawer and you take a look and say, okay, where did we go wrong here? Oh, I'm gonna do like this. And you're like this. And here's maybe a conflict. Okay, okay, great. So I use that with, with my wife. A lot of my clients have gone and gone gotten their Colby. I asked them to send it to me. It gives me a better understanding as to how they operate. I'm not Colby certified, although there is a certification for that is something I probably will do just because I'm fascinated by it. I probably talk about Colby at least once a day. It really has been a game changer in how I think about the world. And I understand my part in the world to a degree and also understanding the behavior of others. I think the more that you're able to, to do that and understand the people around you, if you really want to help others, the more you understand how they operate, the more you can help them. So for me, that's why it's been tremendously valuable and it connects to the infinite banking concept because that is what I do and I teach people on a day to day basis. So having a better understanding of where I'm maybe I have a tendency to provide too much information to people and like a fire hose level. And so sometimes I understand when I'm meeting with someone, I maybe I need to tone it down and hold it back. Maybe we need two or three more meetings to get them to digest that effectively because that's their learning path. So you become more attuned to those things by having a heightened level of understanding. Similarly, in your financial life, just when you're talking about real estate investors, we all have deal flow, some measure of deal flow. And as you get more capitalized, you have access to more available capital resources, either from third party investors, lenders or whatever, or your own resources. The size and level and quality. So not usually the quantity, but the quality of the deals across your desk tend to improve. Now that's not necessarily. That was always the case. More so that your brain is becoming tapped into what quality looks like and you're able to make more effective decisions. So Nelson also taught me that when you have readily available access to capital, opportunities of high caliber will track you down. He would say, in fact, they'll hunt you down. And thinking about property, here's something I wanted to share with you, Jack and your listeners. Is that Nelson? So just imagine for a moment imagine you had 45 properties and every single one of those properties was fully paid for and they were producing annual cash flow and there was 100% managed. It was basically turnkey real estate. You never had to do a darn thing. The perfect passive income drain. Does that sound pretty good? Yeah, I think a lot of the listeners would like that. Now imagine you kick the bucket and you've graduated, you're no longer with us. And 17 of those properties are automatically sold on that day for their highest ever appraised value with no real estate commissions. They bypass probate and there's no capital gains tax on any of them. And the rest and it goes directly to the family, tax free. Does that sound pretty good?

Sounds great.

Okay, now not all 45 sold. There's still 28 houses left. Those houses are still paid for, they're still producing a cash flow and they're constantly accumulating in value and equity and they're guaranteed to do. Does it sound like a pretty good deal? So far that happened. And those were properties, but they weren't physical properties. They were property by the law of contract. And as a libertarian, I'm sure you're familiar with Frederick Bastiat and the book the Law and the Power of Contracts. Property with insurance contracts, cash value, whole life insurance contracts are property just in a different form than we're accustomed to thinking about it. In real estate. It's got no walls and ceilings, no tenants, no toilets, no management, no furnaces to replace, no deferred maintenance, none of those things. No market shifts, no market corrections, none of those things are entered the equation. And so when Nelson Nash passed away in 2019, that's exactly what happened. 17 insurance policies paid a tax free death benefit to the people that Nelson said it should go to. He made the declaration before he passed away. 28 policies which were on other people. These were business partners, family members, his kids, his grandchildren and his great grandchildren. Our are still in force today, four years later. There's they've all increased because every single day they go up in value. They're all going to produce a tax free environment at some future point even though Nelson's long gone. I can't think of anything else that spells out generational wealth better than that.

That's a piece of the puzzle that I think has been missing a long time. Is that that aspect of it? Because we, we get locked in as real estate investors focusing on the real estate so I was, I'm glad that you really brought that up.

Yeah. And it's. And Nelson was a real estate investor himself and he understood land. He was educated as a forester, so we understand timberland. And several of his most profitable. One of his most profitable real estate deals came from a $3,000 policy limit. He bought a ch, a chunk of 500 acres of timberland that a guy needed to get rid of at a discount price. He was able to go get a policy loan and pay the guy out quickly. And 15 years later he sold that land and at a much higher price and he financed it. He seller financed it to the new buyer for 10 years at 15% interest. He took that stream of payments and he went and bought more policies. And if ever there was a deal that came up, Nelson didn't have to wonder where the money was coming from. He could go and get money from a policy loan on demand, at his terms, whenever he wanted from multiple insurance companies. It was total and absolute control. When he discovered this, he was in his early 50s, in the early 80s when interest rates spiked and they went up. He was paying 23 and a half percent interest on 90 day credit lines that he had over $500,000. And that if you do the math, the inflationary math, and that's two and almost two and a half million dollars today. In today's money he owed. Imagine you had a home equity line of credit at two and a half million dollars at 23% interest. That would cripple almost everybody. Okay. He managed to push through that experience and he rethought what was going on in his life. Through a lot of prayer. He was able to recognize he could solve that problem by going to the insurance company to get money. The problem was he didn't have enough money in there. He had to change his spending habits and his pattern to increase what he was putting into premium to build up the reservoir of capital that he could use to fire the snakes and dragons. That's what he called them, the bankers. In his life. It took him 13 years to get rid of his bankers. And after that point in time, his entire family can be exited from the financial system using traditional banking the way that most people are accustomed to. They bought Nelson three airplanes through his lifetime through policies. They financed all their cars, all their, their, their auto insurance for, not for liability but for collision and stuff was self financed through the family system. So all that money's in an aquarium and it keeps rotating inside of this closed loop system of the family. It never leaves the Family.

You know, before we close out on a couple things here, one of them is that is there anything else regarding infinite banking in particular that you think we should probably cover and summarize here?

I think the final thing I would leave people with is that the infinite banking concept is not an insurance product. It's not a contract, it's not insurance. It is a way of doing things. It is a lifestyle. It is something that you choose to commit to do in your life and that never ends. And if you do it the right way and you follow Nelson's principles and you work with someone who's an authorized infinite Banking practitioner who focuses on the book. If you don't own Nelson's book, Become youe Own Banker, you haven't read through that book. You shouldn't be doing it. Nobody should. Okay. It is the bible for that concept. And I would also encourage people, if they haven't done so already. There's a great documentary film that I worked on helping produce that was done on Nelson's life. It's called this is Nelson Nash. It's available on YouTube or you can go to nelson.com and you can watch it. It's a great thing to do with your spouse. It's only one hour long. I'm emotionally connected to it because I was involved in a lot of the filming and it was one of the times I got to spend the most quality time with Nelson. But it really speaks to understanding how this concept made an impact in Nelson's life and then multiplied through like ripples in a pond to many other people, including myself and my own family.

Could you just. We're going to be closing out this episode, but could you talk a little bit? There's an obvious level of respons responsibility and obligation that you obviously feel towards Nelson Nash and his material like that. How much does that weigh on you and what it. How much does it drive you to push you forward?

Forward? That's a good question. It's a lot. Nelson meant the world to me. There's not a single aspect of my life, personally, professionally, there's not one iota of my life that hasn't been positively impacted by knowing that man. Not one. And so the work that we do goes far beyond just making your life better financially. We're changing the lives of people and making transformational change in the way they think about the movement of money and how many generations they can keep the money for. Nelson said you need one of his first golden rules, is you need to learn how to think long range. Learn how to think beyond your own lifespan. I never would have considered that before meeting Nelson. Just that one thing alone was worth meeting him. Just that one thing, not including everything else. And if you can learn how to think beyond your own lifespan, the way you treat money today changes instantly. And for every future decision you make, it shifts just a little bit because you're learning to think long range. And so these fundamental principles are so dead simple, but nobody thinks about them. And so the infinite banking concept is a concept. It is not a product. It is a way of doing things. It's about your thinking, your habits and how you choose to move money throughout your life. If people really truly understand that, they would stop asking silly questions about insurance because it's legitimately so dead simple. You can become your own banker. You're already somebody's the banker in your life and it should be you. Nelson says you need to be in two businesses. One business is how you generate your revenue, how you earn a living. And the second business is banking. Of the two, banking is the most important. You're already doing it. You're just not in control of the circumstance as it relates to your family's needs. And that can change and it should change.

Well, Richard, this was a great conversation and just to remind everybody, again it is seven steps. Ca take advantage of the free download there. I believe, Richard, you have a book coming out as well that might be available here in the near future.

I do. So we have our second book, Amazon bestseller is Cash Follows the Leader. It's uninterrupted daily growth with high cash value insurance. Nice simple read. I'd love to offer that to your listeners. We're just working on getting. Hopefully when this episode goes live, it'll be available. You can go to Cash follows. Com, that's cashfollows.com it should be able to download a free digital version of that. And we have a new book that's going to be launched here hopefully in the next 30 days. That's going to be keep taxes away from your wealth is more focused on the Canadian market. But there's a lot of principles available to of course United States citizens as well. And yeah, a ton of fun being on the show today. Jack, I really appreciate you having me on and for asking a lot of questions about Nelson because that's a subject I'm more than happy to talk about.

Yeah, no, this was a great conversation. I do have a few rapid fire questions we'll close out with and we'll end it there.

Sounds good.

Here's a Chance for you to bust a business myth. It could be real estate related, insurance related, but a myth that kind of bugs you regarding your industry. What would that be?

First one that pops in mind is that whole life insurance is expensive. That's bullshit. Excuse my language, but it's not. It's whatever premiums you put in are premiums and dollars you can get back out. You just have to have it built the right way.

What book would you recommend or what are you reading right now?

Book I would recommend is who not how by Dan Sullivan, who runs the Strategic Coach Organization. When you start thinking about who not how, you begin to think collaboratively versus competitively and it changes the game on all aspects of your entrepreneurial life.

What is the biggest business mistake you've made and what did you learn from it?

Biggest business mistake I made, I think being too trusting with some people and having that come back to bite me in the butt. I'm sure number of people have experienced that before. What would I. What have I learned from it? Not that I shouldn't trust people, but that I just need to ask more questions and be more. I need to increase my filter of how I want to jump into business relationships with others.

If you could go back in time and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be?

Stop everything you're doing, go and buy this book, becoming your own banker. And then phone the number on the back. Because at that time Nelson Nash would have been alive and he would have picked up the phone and have the best conversation of your life.

That would have been a treat in under 60 seconds. If you could give everybody one piece of advice that they could implement today, what would that be?

If you pay for a bunch of insurances or things like softwares, all of those, generally speaking, home, auto, life, critical illness, disability, those kind of insurances. Generally there's a discount value if you pay annually almost across the board. Not exclusively, but often they could be very high. As an example, there's one insurance company that sells term insurance, a lot of it, and they have one of the highest 13%. If you just paid it annually, you'd save 13% right out of the gate. If you added all those up and you paid annually versus monthly, and then you paid yourself what you used to pay those guys, you'd be able to accumulate a lot more of the money. Okay, and the same idea with things like if you pay those annually and stuff and you commit to paying yourself what you used to pay the other people, you're just changing the flow of who gets the money and you are making the money they used to make off of you. If you harness that into an insurance contract that's well designed, then you can optimize it even further for more generations. So that's just one way of thinking about how to grow your capital without changing your way you're doing. You only have to change your behavior and your habits.

Well, Richard, is there a question or concept you wished we would have covered here today?

I don't think so. I, I, I feel anything that people really want to know in regards to like infinite banking concept, it all starts with Nelson. You can't do or understand infinite banking if you don't know who Nelson is. It's just not, in my opinion, it's just not really possible. You might think you're doing it, but you're probably missing something.

Well, Richard, this was a great conversation. I appreciate your time. Again, it's seven steps ca I'll make sure to have that link as a shareable one in the show notes. If you found some value in today's episode, do us a quick favor and share it with one of your investor friends. Richard, thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

Jeff.

You learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your your real estate investing. If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter. You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.