Actress Shannen Fields and her new movie "The Order of Rights" - Episode 389

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Welcome to Voices in My Head.

In My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames Twitter, and please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head. Hey, friends! Friends, this is Rick Lee James. Thanks for listening to Voices in My Head. I wanted to give a preface to today's show. My guest is Shannon Fields. She's an actress who you may have seen in movies like Facing the Giants and some other faith-based films. And today I get to share with you a conversation that I had with her literally just hours after Justice Ginsburg passed away. And the topic of the podcast, interestingly enough with all the timing, is abortion, because she's in a new movie called The Order of Rights, which I have not yet seen, but we talk about the film. And the film— the one reason I was interested in having her on and to talk about this new film, which I look forward to seeing, is the makers of the film claim that they are taking on the issue of abortion from both sides of the topic, and they wanted to give space to let people who have a staunchly pro-life view share space with people who do not. And, and that's what the movie is billed as. And they even talk about allowing people who watch the film to be able to come to their own conclusions. Again, I haven't seen the film, but I'm grateful for the chance to have a conversation like that. I think we only scratched the surface in the time that we had, and I only wanted to give this preface today because I know it's a sensitive topic. And I'm concerned that church people, we are content to just let courts and lawmakers do all the work for us. And, and sometimes it's easier to post a meme and call somebody a name than it is to actually be people who are about love and who do hard things like helping unwed mothers or helping even wed mothers who need help in their decision-making. And I just really feel like if we're gonna say we're pro-life, we need to be people who are pro-life life, and not just pro fetus. And that has to go from way after the day that a baby is born and into their lives. And I know there's a lot of feelings, especially in an election year, about, you know, well, we've got to, to get Supreme Court justices and judges. And I don't want to get into that too much, other than just to say we've been depending on that for decades. And it's become a wedge issue that has been used simply to get votes. Um, but according to Guttmacher Institute, abortion numbers have been on decline since 1980 and experiencing an especially large drop from 2011 to 2017. Uh, that's a period actually that represents the last 5 years of the Obama presidency when there was a big drop in abortions. That's good news. And the first year of President Trump's administration, also a big drop. Good news. But we also know, and the reason we can't just rely on lawmakers to do this, is in 2019 Planned Parenthood received record-high taxpayer funding and performed a record-high number of abortions, and its affiliates received $80 million in coronavirus bailouts earlier this year. And the reason I say we have to learn to do something differently is because, you know, you look at the conservative Supreme Court right now and And Justice John Roberts, a conservative, blocked Louisiana's abortion ban in 2019. It may not be as simple as just voting for conservatives, right? How are we as the church going to be there for people who need us, and people who may be in a desperate state and need us and don't feel like they can come to the church for help because of the shame that is there? That's something that all of us should care about. And again, I don't care if you're conservative, I don't care if you're liberal, I don't care how you vote, honestly. But if you're a Christian, I care how you live. And that's what this topic today is. It's why we're having this conversation. It's because we care about life, and we care about all life, from the baby being born to the person on death row. As Christians, we believe that Jesus calls us to redeem all creation and to find ways to bring the message of the gospel to the ends of the earth. And that is a decidedly life-giving message for sure. So I hope you'll enjoy the conversation that we have today. And thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. I'd love to hear from you. I know that there— we again, we barely scratched the surface during this conversation, but I would love to hear from you, and I'd love to hear your ideas and your thoughts for how how we can best be the church in our world, especially on this issue when it comes to life. All right, well, you guys, thanks for listening. Here's our conversation. It was a good time talking with Shannon Fields. God bless you. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here for what I know is going to be another great conversation today. On October 2, 2020, the new film, The Order of Rights, releases on Amazon, Google, and Vudu streaming platforms. The title of the film, Order of Rights, refers to the order in which the categories of rights are listed in the Declaration of Independence: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The film centers on Emma Stein, played by Emma Ellie Roberts, a pregnant single girl who has been advised by her mother to have an abortion despite the objection of the child's young father, Ethan Carpenter, played by Ben Davies. In the story, Ethan is a professing Christian. Even as Ethan tries to help her, Emma decides to go ahead with terminating the pregnancy. Ethan and his family file a lawsuit on behalf of the child's right to life, and their story moves to prominence as a nationally publicized court case. The court has to decide whether the child in Emma's womb is a person or not, and if so, if it is endowed with the inalienable rights as enumerated by the Declaration of Independence. Shannon Fields plays Carrie in the film, and she stopped by the podcast for a visit today. Shannon Fields, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I am— I, I just cannot wait to have a little chat with you. It's exciting.

Shannon, it's so good to have you here on the show today, and I'm looking forward to our conversation. I wonder if we could start today by you just telling us a bit more about who you are, maybe a little bit about your family, and, and just help our audience to get to know you a little bit today?

Yes, absolutely, I'd love to. Um, well, let me start with my marriage. I've been married for 28 years. I have to think for a second. Um, I have 2 kids, but they're grown and married, 26 and 22. Um, gosh, I did get started earlier in life. I married a football coach, and, um, and it's so funny because I was— when I first get got started in this ministry career with films and things and producing, I landed a female role, lead female role with the movie Facing the Giants. And a lot of people are familiar with that. I mean, it's been around since 2006.

Sure.

But that film, that was my hometown. I met the Kendrick brothers. My husband is a real football coach. Of course, Alex Kendrick is not my husband in real life. But that kind of set in motion some things that I had been praying for and that God had in store for my future and my family's future.

Well, that's wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing a little bit about yourself. I'm sure that many people do know you from your role in films like Facing the Giant— and Giant— sorry, I can't talk today— Facing the Giants. And I know that's where I first saw you years ago, and I can't believe that was in 2006. It's amazing how fast time Time goes by because it just seems like it was yesterday when that film came out. Well, maybe, maybe you could tell us a little bit before we get in, in too deep about the film. This is, this is really a heavy topic actually that the film covers today, and there's so much to talk about. But I'm wondering if you could also help us know just a little bit, what is it like to be on the set of a film like this? Because most of us have never done any moviemaking ourself or even been a part of the process.

Oh goodness, you know, with films like The Order of Rights and the topic that it is, um, we actually become family. Number one, we are all, you know, we have, um, like-mindedness on this, on this particular cast and crew. We were all pro-life, but I can tell you that there is, there is a spiritual warfare that had taken place during that time. And we've had, we had cameras cut off. We had people, actually Emma that played my daughter, which she's the lead in the film. She got laryngitis. We had to shut the whole production down for about 4 to 6 weeks. Hmm. It just one thing after the other, after the other. But I can tell you when this is God's heart, this is his heartbeat, life.. And even though we had struggles, he, he, he never stopped carrying us through each and every moment of the film. Because we did this film several years ago and we thought we were going to get it out. And, you know, we had our thoughts of how it was supposed to open up in theaters and different things. And God just kept stopping everything and stopping. And of course, we thought it was roadblocks. But God knew exactly when he needed his— this is his film— to come out. And so now when we look back, we can see why he was stopping it, because right here at the election, and then pro-life is just people talking about it on the news everywhere. I mean, this couldn't be a better time to open up a film about pro-life.

Well, let's get into the film a little bit here. And I want to say at the outset of this too, this is a topic that I care about. I know many of our listeners are going to care very much about it, and I, I care about it from possibly a little bit different angle. My wife and I, um, we've, we've lost 4 babies, not to abortion but to miscarriage over the years. And, and each time, um, we've, we've felt that loss of losing a child. You know, to us they weren't fetuses, they were our babies. And I even, I even wrote a song and, and did a music video about it a while back that was just sort of a conversation, with them, uh, about what we would have liked to have, you know, shared with them and things like that. And so it's, it's a topic that I know is, um, it's something that is, is very sacred. It's something that many of us, um, want to find better ways to talk more about because we care so much about it, for sure. And so as we start this film today, you, you've mentioned that it's a, it's a pro-life film. And I wonder, uh, how this film maybe is different from some other— maybe even other faith films in some ways, because I know a lot of them don't necessarily deal with this topic. But it seems like from all I'm reading about it, um, the film is really trying to do a good job of being fair-minded about its approach in approaching both sides of the issue, not just, uh, taking into consideration pro-life people's views, but also really trying to take into consideration people that may differently about that. And I wonder if maybe you could talk a little bit about some of the ways that you feel the film is trying to have that conversation.

Okay, you are— you hit the nail on the head. This, this film will appeal to both, and then you make the decision at the end. This is why I loved this script so much. Jim Ball, which he was the director and co-writer, and the other writer is Richard Cutting, and they wanted to not just be, uh, it is a pro-life film, but they wanted to be fair in how, um, it was portrayed on both sides. And they did such a beautiful job at, um, when, when it goes to the court— courts, because this is a courtroom drama, ends up being a courtroom drama, um, you will hear both sides. And then at the end of it, the person that is watching on the other side of the screen has to make the decision. And I I love that because he's not pointing anyone as a bad person or, um, or you are just so wrong person. This is why I love how they incorporated both views so beautifully. Um, I actually play Emma's mom and I am pro-choice in the movie. Now in real life I am pro-life,. And so I've had a couple of people that watched it that were pro-choice and said that I— they felt like that is how they exactly how they feel. It wasn't that I was a bad person in this film. I just— I was like a mama bear and I portrayed it. Don't mess with us and my and my child. And so it was hard and at times because I have a daughter that's the same age and I would have never told her to have an abortion. And, and so the topics, I think, that are on both sides when you watch the film, and at the end of it, there's a lot of room for conversation. And I love that.

Yeah, well, I'm so glad to hear that too. And I'm looking forward to seeing the film when it does come out. I think it's very hard. We're such a polarized nation right now on so many different topics, and it's very hard to have conversations. Often you often feel like, you know, that you used to be— that people, it seemed like, could disagree agreeably on some things. And it seems like now the conversation is, I'm right and you're evil, instead of, you know, we have two different points of views to come at. And, and I wanted to ask your question to some friends of mine, some people that I have actually come across as a result of this podcast. They run an organization that is also a pro-life group, and it's called ProGrace. And they shared a statistic from LifeWay that said only 7%— actually, it says research has shown from LifeWay that 4 in 10 of women who get abortions are regular church attenders. And they also said that only 7% talk to anyone at their church before making that decision. And, and it made me wonder Why do you think that so few women feel free to speak with people at the church they attend about decisions like this? And I'd love to maybe just ask you just kind of what your opinions are. Not that it's going to be the end of the discussion or anything, but I wonder if— do you think that sometimes in the church we might operate out of a place of shame that makes it hard for people to have very important conversations like this?

Yes, I absolutely do. I think that some people, when they're— they attend a church, it should not be this way, that they feel like they have to be this perfect person when they walk in the door. But that is totally the opposite of what Jesus was about. Um, we should be having these conversations, and we should make women feel comfortable that, that we are not going to judge anyone for bringing up this conversation. If you you know, got pregnant and you needed to talk with someone, that should be the safe place to go. I know that some churches that probably are, that I know they try to make it a safe place to be, but there are a lot of them that aren't. And so we do need as a, as a church to be able to have these hard conversations and know that you kind of come, you know, that, that saying a lot of churches started, come as you are.

Mm-hmm.

Um, really, come as you are, and no, no judgment. You know, throw the hands up. We, we love you. We, we, we are the hands and feet of Jesus. That's what we should be. And not be surprised or taken back when someone has, uh, hard— walking through a hard spot in their life. I mean, literally, if we all kind of talked about what was going on personally in our life, we would all know that there's none of us that are perfect. None of us that have walked this, uh, blameless, spotless life. And we all need one another. We all need forgiveness and understanding and grace. And, um, that's the, that's the way the church definitely should be, especially women who have— they need to talk about this. Maybe they just don't know. Maybe they weren't raised, or they don't have a mom or a grandmom or somebody that they can trust to go to.

Sure.

So I hope that a lot of people that are listening that are a part of church leadership that will make these women feel comfortable to come and talk and not feel ashamed.

Sure. Well, and I hope that too. Thank you for sharing that. I really do feel a burden that we do have a place where people can come. You know, I almost feel like the church should be viewed as almost a Sinners Anonymous type place, you know, where we come— not to say how altogether we have it, but to say, here's ample evidence of why I need a Savior, you know, and I need a community of people that are willing to walk this with me, and warts and all, and help me on the road to salvation. And so I'm looking forward to hearing, or actually seeing the film, and being able to engage in some new ways, hopefully, in some good conversations. I'm especially intrigued, and again, you'll have to help me a little bit with this, because not having seen the film yet, only having read press information about it, I'm actually interested in the character played by Ben Davies, who plays Ethan Carpenter, because it seems like he's unique in a place in a lot of Christian films that they don't usually make the Christian the person that has flaws, you know. And maybe usually is not a good word, but sometimes it almost seems like that character is the hero of the story and we don't get to see all those things. But it seems like he, as the Christian in the story, would not normally be the one that you know, is found to be the, the unwed father of a child in the story. And yet he's very much in that position. I wonder if you could tell us maybe just a little bit more about his character, and then maybe a little bit more about Emma too, and sort of their different backgrounds in the story as it's laid out in the film.

Oh, absolutely. So Ben has a very unique role. I think that he has a key role because he is, he, you know, he obviously is a kind of a love story, falls in love with Emma, and Emma is from, um, a single mom background, and they kind of, um, I mean, they don't, you know, they don't attend church, they, you know, it's just they kind of have a little bit more of, um, a carefree, I guess, lifestyle, if you will. Um, he is the— he's the father that wants to keep this baby. So a lot of the times you don't see that in any films. It's usually about, about the girl. And so this is about him saying, look, this is my child. I do not want you to have an abortion. There is another option here, and I want to fight for this. And so now In this film, we have all these fathers that I think they're across the whole world, they're going to see this and go, "Yes, I do have a right. Thank you for bringing this up. This is my child." Because there is so many people that we have talked to as a team, as a production team, that said, "You know, I felt so helpless that I did not want my girlfriend to have an abortion.", and I feel like I have no right. So this is going to bring up a whole different subject from this film. Hmm.

Well, and isn't it interesting too, the culture at large has no problem talking about this and having this conversation. It seems like the place where we have a hard time talking about it is, is in churches at times. I think of several years ago, Ben— sorry, Ben Folds, actually a really amazing musician and just incredibly talented composer composer and piano player. One of his first big hits many years ago now was a song called Brick, and he doesn't make any profession of faith that I know of, but he tells the, the true story in that song of an abortion that happened with him and his girlfriend when he was in high school. And it's actually a heart-wrenching story. He tells this tale about the whole story of having to take her when the parents were out of town and doing this all in secret to an abortion clinic, and, and just the heartbreak and the loss that came with And it's a really, um, it's, it's a really difficult subject to talk about, but it seems like it is being talked about. And oftentimes in churches it seems like, hush, don't bring it up, you know. Oftentimes, right? And I think about the character that, uh, of Ethan and the character of Emma, and it seems like maybe they're dealing with some of that too, and some of the, you know, the different backgrounds that they have and their different approaches to even having the conversation in places like this. And, you know, you mentioned a few moments ago, you know, we are in an election season, and there's a lot that legislation can do, and there's probably a lot that legislation can't do as well. And what I'm interested in, as we're actually continuing this conversation, is what do you think that churches might be able to do that laws and legislation can't, as far as helping address this and helping to provide real answers to people who might find themselves in crisis?

Yeah, you know, I think the church— all of us, you know, obviously are the church. And I, I think that it's so many times that we, we do just kind of sit back and, and not get into these, these kinds of talks or issues or things. But like, for example, our team, if you go to the website theorderofrightsmovie.com, we have a petition that's up that we actually want to defund Planned Parenthood. And we take that, we're taking that to Washington. So that's, I guess that's one thing, you know, you can kind of jump on board with stuff like that. I haven't never been to the pro-life march in Washington before. But Jim Ball, he has, and he is many, many times Father Jim Ball, and he is such a big part of trying to change and revert and reverse Roe versus Wade. And some people have asked me, so this has been, gosh, since 1973, I think that's right. Do you really think we could do that? I really think we can. I really think that we have a voice if we actually stand in the gap for the voiceless and not be silent in the church and be silent in our homes and stand up for the ones who can't stand up for themselves because that is a, that is a, that is a baby. And they're— this is one of the things that's brought up in our film is that Emma says, is, you know, this is, this is my body and not your body. But there's actually another body inside of her that's, that's not talked about. That it's not— you gotta give— this is a life. And, um, and it's not your— it's not really— shouldn't be the woman's decision to, to abort and kill the baby. You've got to give this, this child world a chance. You don't know— that's God's creation— of what he has in store for this, this baby. And I think that when this happens to women, um, and it could be sometimes in a tragedy, it could happen, you know, with the boyfriend that it happened in our film, um, you immediately just— you're, you're in the moment and you don't— and that the— in the moment is when the decision sometimes is made, okay, I'm going to have I'm gonna, you know, get rid of this. But they— nobody talks about— this is what they need to talk about in church, that if you do have an abortion, there are some deep, deep roots that you will have to deal with in life. Because I've talked to many women who is— they are amazing women, they're amazing moms, they have a family, but they had an abortion when they were young. And they are, they said every single day they feel the regret. They feel it. They think about their child. They think about the baby and that nobody talks about that of what is going to happen to that mother in the future. How is she going to be able to deal with when she comes in reality of what actually took place? I don't even know if I answered your question.

No. Well, no, thank you. And, you know, I think I think also some interesting things for us to maybe talk about as a church together. We put a lot of emphasis on the life before it's born, but we also really wanna make sure we also bring into the conversation how do we care for the children once they are born as well. And if we believe life is from womb to tomb, how does the church step in to be a help? And I think of one of my favorite stories that I think it came out of North Carolina area near Duke. There was a group of pastors many years ago that were talking, and they were various denominations. Some of the pastors were very pro-life, some of the pastors were kind of on the fence about it at this time. And one of the pastors spoke up from a pretty predominant Black congregation in the area, and he said, "Well, let me tell you how we handle this in my church." He said, "We actually have a young girl who has come from a very rough background. She's basically raised herself." and she's had a very hard life, and she's pregnant and she doesn't know what else to do. She said— I went— or the pastor said, I went to an older couple in my church that have raised kids. They're out of the home now and they're gone. And I said, I need your help. We've got a girl that is facing a real crisis right now. She's about to have a baby. She doesn't know what to do. And she said, I need you to you take this girl under your wings and help raise this baby, and you need to help raise the mother too. And said, you've got the experience to do this, you know how to handle it. We are the body of Christ, you've got to help me with this. And, and they did that. They actually took it on as a congregation together and said, we, um, as part of our living out our baptismal vows together, we're going to raise this baby together. And he said, that's how we handle it in church. And I just thought that was such a beautiful answer to what churches really can do when approaching, you know, very difficult conversations like this, you know, just sort of the on-the-ground ways that we can find ways to help and actually be the body of Christ. So, well, right. Well, thank you so much, and we're definitely going to put links that you'd mentioned before, orderofrightsmovie.com. I'll make sure and put a link link on the webpage for my website, voicesinmyheadpodcast.com, where people can find out more about this. We're looking forward to October 2nd when everyone will be able to, to see the film. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to our conversation today, or maybe even any other projects you're working on? I always like to give my guests a chance to just kind of end the show by talking about anything that they have going on that they think we might be interested at this time?

Yeah, I would love to. Um, first I want to applaud those churches out there that are taking on those hard subjects and, and ministering and loving these women and, and men. And just, there, there are some really good ones out there, but hopefully that the ones that are actually listening that say, hey, we need to step up up, um, that they would step up because we have such an opportunity as the church to just love and help heal. Is it's, it's, that's what we're supposed to do is just be with one another, with one another, um, until Jesus comes back, right? Um, so for me, I have, I have a couple of great things that are coming out, and I have my website that people keep up with me. And then I have an Instagram that I always post. But something really unique that I, that I've been working on is a reality show, but it centers around helping widows and their kids. Um, we— it's called Rebuild and Restore, and we, we do something really special in their home or in their life that they need, need, need, and then we kind of help move forward and heal the widow as well. Wow. And it is going to air on Pureflix streaming. Um, we hope to have that up and streaming the first of the year. Um, we have been working, uh, on our episodes, and it is so unique, so special. Um, the one that I just wrapped on is my sister. She lost her husband in October. Oh, I'm so sorry. So It's gonna be a very touching, uh, episode, but fun as well. And she said out of her own mouth, she said, I wasn't sure about doing this, she said, but this has helped me face some things that I didn't want to face. Um, and so we hope that the show is not just fun and exciting and entertaining, but also healing too, to widows out there. And maybe that the church, you know, take on to help the widows in their community as well. So that's a, that's a really unique thing that's coming out that I'm so proud of.

Well, all right. Well, thank you very much. And we will make sure and put links to your website and information about that show as well in our show notes. And looking forward to seeing that episode, especially that you've talked about, about Rebuild and Restore. That's, that's very exciting. So congratulations on that new show as well. That's great. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Well, it has been a real pleasure to get to sit and visit with you for a few minutes today on the podcast, and I wish you all the best. And as I say to my guests each, each week when they come on this show, I'll say it to you, Shannon Fields, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Oh, thank you so much. It was an honor to sit here and talk to you and get to know you even more, and I appreciate I appreciate you and all the work that you're doing.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.