Clay Finnesand and North Point Worship - Episode 369

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This is Rick Lee James, and the music you are hearing is from my new album, Thunder. The title track, Thunder, is a never-before never-before-released song by the late Rich Mullins. There are also 12 other tracks made up of original music, hymns, and readings to guide the listener on a journey.

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Thunder, hear it today at rickleejames.com. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure Be sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSays. Where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

I thought it was over, but you were just getting started. And when I thought I was done for, the wizard just be parted.

I stood at the edge of the water, the enemy pressing in behind.

I've wandered the driest desert, no promise land in sight. I stood in the middle of the fire, wondering if I'll make it out alive. When I was losing the battle, surrounded on all sides, I thought it was over, but you were just getting started. When I thought I was done for, the winds were just being parted. You never leave my side. I thought it was over, but you were just getting started.

And when I thought I was done for, the winds were just being parted. Yeah, I'm missing a piece of the picture.

It's getting clearer. When I can't see your hand, I will trust your heart. You're just getting started.

You're not finished. You're just getting started. You're not finished. You're just getting started. Inside. Just getting started, you're not finished, you're just getting started.

You say you are with me, you will go before me, I will trust you only. You're just getting started, you say you are with me, you will go before me, I will trust you only. You're just getting started. You're just getting started. Yeah, yeah, I'm only seeing a piece of the picture. It's getting clearer. When I can't see your hand, I will trust your heart. You're just getting started.

Yeah, just getting started.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you can be here with us today for another great conversation. North Point Worship's first recording, No One Higher, released in 2012, and hit the top 20 on Billboard's Christian Albums chart. The album was followed by 2015's Here that soared to number 2 on the chart while further hitting the Billboard Top 200 for the first time. Signing with Centricity Music in 2017, the group released the EP Nothing Ordinary, which featured its song "Death Was Arrested" that is being heard across the globe and has been re-recorded by artists like Aaron Schust and Laura Storie. 5 more EPs have released to critical acclaim, including Nothing Ordinary Part 1 Live and Part 2 Live, the Christmas offering Ring the Bells in 2018, North Point Inside Out in 2018, and Abundantly More in 2019. Well, Clay Finnesand from North Point Worship has stopped by for a visit today to catch us up on some of the exciting new things that are happening with North Point Worship, even in these strange times of social isolation we are living in. So Clay Finnesand, welcome Welcome to Voices in My Head.

Oh, thanks for having me. I'm really glad to be here today.

Well, I'm glad to have a chance to be able to have a visit with you and that we had this opportunity today. And I want to start out by just telling you how much I really appreciate your song Wide Open. The message that no height and no depth can ever separate us from the love of God, it's just so needed right now. And I think you, you sing it and proclaim it so clearly. You would have had no idea when you released that song a while back just maybe how relevant it is right now when we're all social isolating, it seems like, right? But just the fact that we are so separated from each other in many ways, it's so important to be reminded of that we are not separated from God's love. So thank you for that song.

Very good.

Oh, thank you.

Well, Clay, a lot of our listeners are going to be familiar with the music and the ministry of North Point Worship, but as we begin today, I'd love for you to just tell us a bit about yourself and the role that you play with North Point Worship.

For sure. So yeah, I'm just one of the songwriters and worship leaders. We kind of operate as more or less of a collective and less as a, you know, tightly structured band. And so I got invited to come down to North Point when I was still in college a couple years ago in 2016, came down and I met everybody. And it was one of those things where we immediately hit it off and felt like we had known each other for a really long time. And so they started harassing me and said that if I didn't move, bad things would start happening. So I ended up moving down after college, and now I play a role where, you know, if we're doing some traveling stuff, I'll go out on the road and kind of represent that because I don't, you know, I don't have a family, I don't have kids or a wife right now. So I get to go out and do the old 15-passenger van trick and visit new churches and meet a lot of great people. And then I help a lot with our songwriting as well. So it's been a really sweet time.

That's terrific. Now they told you if you didn't move there, something bad would happen. So imagine, you know, with the pandemic, that seems about like one of the worst things that can happen. So just imagine what would have happened if you hadn't moved there.

I mean, I like to think that I stopped something catastrophic, but I think it was more of they were just going to drive and, and pick me up in a truck and drive me back.

So we would have had frogs and locusts and everything else, I'm afraid, if you hadn't moved. So, you know, that's great.

That's right.

Oh man, well, I'm glad that you connected with them, and it seems very obvious just from even some of the videos that I've seen online where you've gotten to sing with them and they've been recording your songs and you've sung with them. Uh, it seems like you really have, have a family there together and that you really get to lean on each other a lot through these times. So I'm glad that you made that connection.

Me too.

Well, you know, over the past few weeks I've had guests on this show who, who minister in lots of different capacities. And I've had people who are starting churches through like house church ministries, and I've had people like yourself that, you know, North Point is about as mega as a megachurch can be, you know. And I've had everything in between with different guests. And one thing is certain, we all are kind of in new territory right now together. And I just wanted to take some time at the beginning before we get into some of the great music and some of the cool things that are happening with you guys at North point, just to maybe talk about what are some of the unique challenges that you have been facing during this time of social isolation?

Mm, that's a really great question. I don't know if we've been experiencing anything massively, you know, different than a lot of other local churches have been. I could be totally wrong, but I think for me personally, the main challenge is I think that We're built for community. Um, the church is supposed to be a gathering of people, right? Paul says, don't neglect the gathering together.

Yeah.

And so I think that that's, that's something that my heart really misses is seeing faces that I know and love and meeting new people that, um, are first-time guests or anything like that. You know, I've got, I've got some friends at North Point that, you know, they come to the same service every week. And so I know where they sit and I get to go out and check on them and see how they're doing. Right now it's hard because, you know, some of those are older folks that I don't know how they're doing during this pandemic, and that's been challenging. But really, really, I think as a church though, and as a worship ministry, it's been a challenge to adapt to it, just a new way of doing things. And one thing that does make North Point unique as far as megachurches go is we're used to, to a high level of production. Um, which is neither good nor bad. I mean, it can be good in some certain, you know, instances. In other ways, it can be a hindrance to the gospel, I think. But it's been both a challenge and a blessing to kind of come back to how do we engage people at a fundamental level. And I think for us, it's kind of landed on what Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians when he's like, "Hey, when I came to you with the gospel, there wasn't anything fancy about it." So that the cross of Christ, the message of Christ wouldn't lose its power and its impact. So we've just been finding ways to simplify what we do, and we're not hiding behind, you know, lights or fancy moving cameras now. It's just we're doing a lot of live stuff from our homes. You know, I'll go live on Facebook or Instagram for one of our church campuses at least 2 times a week, 3 times a week. And it's been fun because then people are commenting and I'm getting to engage with people that I otherwise probably wouldn't get to on a regular weekend.. So that's been an interesting thing. I wonder, you know, how— not to ask, you know, not to hijack the interview here, but—

No, it's your interview, so you go ahead.

What have you found with some other worship leaders or church leaders, how they've been adapting? What's been the— has there been a common theme or has there been kind of one?

You know, there's kind of been— there kind of has been a common theme in that everybody's trying to figure out how to best communicate together and not leave people out during this time. And one thing that has been interesting, and you just mentioned it, is with doing so much online, there has been a lot of chance for interaction that would not have probably even been possible maybe even 5 years or less ago, just because of new technologies and communicating. Where at one time it would have been, well, if you're gonna do music or a sermon, you just throw up a YouTube video online and then it's there. And then if somebody wants to leave a comment, they can. But I think I think we're experiencing a little bit now just due to different things like maybe Facebook Live or Zoom or different things that different ministries are using. People are kind of able to respond back in real time, you know, while it's happening. Or one person that we had online, they said it's been kind of neat for them to do something new with— like, they call it Coffee with the Pastor on Fridays— and they kind of call in together all into one place. And I don't know if it was Zoom or some other software they were using, but they had some real, like, interaction. So the pastor would bring sort of a lesson and then open it up to questions and answers. And it's not just been a matter of people kind of typing in comments. It's that people have really had a chance to kind of interact and respond. So in certain ways, I think there's been a kind of a freshness in this time of some new ways to reach out that we hadn't been doing before. You know, my personal church here in Springfield, Ohio, where I live, we started doing not only online services in new ways, but we've been doing like parking lot services as well. So we have an AM broadcast transmitter, and so we just kind of, we tell everybody, come as you are, but stay in your car, you know, type of thing. And it was kind of neat this year on Palm Sunday, you know, we couldn't wave palm branches, but people started honking their horns, you know, like while we were singing Hosanna and stuff. So, uh, yeah, so it's been, it's been interesting.

Yeah, come as you are, but stay in your car.

That's right. Yeah, I'm stealing it. All right, you should feel free. I'm sure we stole it from somebody along the way too, but But, you know, it has been a learning time, and I wonder for you, has there been anything that you personally have kind of been learning during this time that you found to be valuable?

Hmm.

Well, I definitely— I guess there's two parts to this answer, I think. I might bail on the other one halfway through this, but I think in one way I definitely underestimated the value of social media as a pastoral tool. Mostly because I think social media in church already has kind of a neutral to negative, you know, like connotation with it. Not often are you finding a pastor saying, "Thank God for social media, it's amazing," because it's so easy to misuse and to abuse. But during this quarantine time, it's become really evident to me that there are a lot of ways to use social media in a very pastoral way that can be really helpful. So that's, that's one thing I've, I've definitely taken to heart is being engaging with people. A lot of times on our North Point Worship page, we'll, we'll post a prompt basically saying, hey, just to let you guys know, today we're going to be praying for you, so drop a prayer request in the comments. And I've always been really surprised by how many people are willing to be really vulnerable and put their prayer requests in these comments. And we love to go back and reply to them, let them know that they're seen and let them know that there's a real person on the other end of their screen that's, that's taking their prayer request and running with it and bringing it to God. So that's been crazy for me. Um, yeah, I decided I'm gonna bail on the second part of that question, but yeah, that's, that's to me something that I've been really impressed with, and, and it's been a good way to shrink it down. It's not so, it's not so much that we're just leading worship or speaking to people through a screen, but there is a lot of of mutual engagement, and then it ends up really being a blessing to me on the other side of it too.

Yeah, it has been interesting because it does, it does feel like this whole time has been an opportunity for us to listen to God almost just speaking to the whole world at this moment. Be still, you know. And, and it's really a unique time in that if, if we allow ourselves to really do that and, you know, really avail ourselves to each other in whatever ways we can— you're right, social media can be a a wonderful tool or it can be a great curse. And I think we found that it's been a wonderful tool, especially during this time. So that's terrific. Well, you know what, we could talk about pandemic stuff all day and the different challenges that we have, but you know, there are some exciting things that are happening with North Point Worship. And so I want to get into some of that and allow you to tell us some of those great things. So maybe just talk to us about some of the new music that has been releasing over the past the past few months, and it's my understanding that North Point is planning to release this year a dozen new singles.

Yeah, we are on a whole journey right now with this. You know, we've been having meetings as a band, or at least we were before quarantine kind of hit, where we're, we're in a season, I think, as a band and as a collective and really as a church of trying to figure out moving forward, what is going to be our core message, our core identity? What are we trying to do? I mean, it's almost like our midlife crisis as a band. You sent out, as you said a second ago, a couple of the highlights, and there were things that I kind of had forgotten about, like with the Hear record and some of the original live stuff that we were doing. And I think at the beginning it had a really pure start, and it became Over time, how do we get songs to punch through the noise? And I think right now it's coming back to how do we have a pure heart about this? How do we write songs that are coming from a genuine place of worship as individuals and as a team? And think it's difficult with the music industry because you want songs to break through and to go further. But it's difficult when you when motives get mixed in there, it's hard to make sense of what am I writing the song for? Is it for radio or is it for people to be deeply impacted by it? Is it— you know what I'm saying? So it can be a little bit of a challenge. And I think right now we're in that midlife crisis of, no, we need to get back to the heart of it. And that's what's going to motivate us moving forward. So we just started writing songs again from a really, I think, vulnerable, place as individuals. And so yeah, we've got some new music coming out. I'm trying to— I'm actually just went to our Spotify here just to check on what's actually out so I don't spoil too much stuff.

Sure.

Yeah, so I guess the first two songs that we put out this year were Nothing Else Matters and Just Getting Started, which are totally different songs. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm sure if you've listened to any of this stuff, it's hilariously different. Which Nothing Else Matters is one of my favorite songs that we've ever done. And Just Getting Started is a song I got to write on, and I think it's hilarious because it's such a pop song, but it came out with Nothing Else Matters, which is really funny to me. But people seem to really engage with it and have fun with it, which I think is just— I mean, a lot of times as songwriters in worship music tend to sit down at a piano or acoustic guitar and write ballads. We could write ballads after ballads, but some of those higher energy ones are sometimes difficult to write. So it's funny, I'm glad that that one came out.

Yeah.

And then you're—

just interrupt you for a second, like, like, Just Getting Started, it's got such a cool vibe to it that, you know, I don't even know how to quite classify it musically. It's almost like a modern '80s song or something, you know, right? Yeah, with the synthesizers and stuff. But it's really a cool song, and you're right, It goes from that into sort of a ballady, you know, just really heartfelt, you know, song. And anyway, I dig all of the songs you're talking about. So please continue. I just wanted to say that one's got a great vibe. Like from the first time that my wife and son heard that, it was like we were all kind of bopping around the house.

Oh, that's totally— I mean, that's how we felt. When they told me— I wrote that song with Lauren and Jared is one of our— he's a staff producer for us, and Brett Stanfill. And we wrote that song and they told me a couple weeks later, hey, we're actually going to record this song. And I, I didn't know what to make of it because I didn't know how it was going to— because I'm sure you're familiar, we just changed our name not too long ago. It used to be North Point Inside Out. Sure. And then we changed it to North Point Worship to kind of reflect like I was talking about it a minute ago, that, that change of perspective and going back to the heart of things. And so then I, I thought it was hilarious that one of our first songs was going to be a pop song, but it's such a, it's such a great message. And I love, like, I love what it says and I love that it's connecting with people. But we just had two more songs come out, Light Breaking Through, Sons and Daughters. Sons and Daughters is actually a pretty old song, um, that we just revamped and brought back and Coming up here in a couple of weeks, we have two new ones coming out. So yeah, we're putting out two new songs every— it feels like every other month or so, which is gonna end up being 12 or more songs this year, which is really exciting. But this next batch of songs, I'm probably the most excited about these next two that are coming out.

Well, that's great.

Well, that'll be May 29th, I think.

Oh, great, great.

So coming up real quick. Yeah, so, well, you know, it's kind of an interesting time in a lot of different ways, not just for like worship music for the church, but also— and you spoke about radio already— and, and then just trying to figure out how to even release music these days. And the pandemic adds an extra layer of challenge of knowing what to do because we're at a point where artists can't get out and tour. So everything's kind of dependent on, you know, the release and how people hear the music. And I just am fascinated by You know, there's the old way of releasing that's like, okay, here's a whole album right now. And then there's the way, because of all the streaming services that we have, whether it be Spotify or Apple Music, um, you know, like North Point seems to be doing now, the trend seems to be, you know, here's a song and then next month here's another song and then here's another song. And it's kind of a return to the old days back when, uh, you know, you had an A-side and a B-side on a record, you know. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of a It's interesting the way that history kind of repeats itself, or maybe it doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes a little bit, you know.

But it rhymes, that's a good way of putting it.

Yeah, with ways in the past. So, um, but I'm enjoying it though. I think that in some ways, uh, and I maybe I'll get your thoughts on this, do you think in some ways when we're releasing songs maybe one or two at a time, we might pay a little bit more attention to those songs and, and when it all piles up over time into what would have been one album together, we kind of have dug in with those individual songs a little more. Or what are kind of your thoughts on that, as opposed to like the singles versus an entire album all at once?

Yeah, well, I mean, I think I grew up just consuming albums as a whole, and so I definitely have a soft spot for when, when one of my favorite artists comes out with an album, I'll listen to the whole thing. But But that's a rare thing now, just because people will listen to music on their commute. They'll listen to it for, you know, 10, 20 minutes when they're having like some morning devotional time. And so breaking it down into smaller chunks definitely seems like the better way to do it right now, especially you mentioned Spotify. A lot of these streaming services have algorithms that if a song doesn't get a certain amount of plays, in a set amount of time, it basically assumes that people aren't interested in that song. And so it, it can get a little bit buried. And so yeah, I think that the putting— I like actually the way we're doing it right now has been my favorite way of releasing, where we're putting out 2 at a time. So it's not just 1 song, but it's also not more than bite-sized, so people can really get their heads around it. And sit with the song. And then by the time that they're ready to move on from that song, they've got 2 more that are in their mailbox. So I think that's been a fun way of doing it. Although I do have, you know, I'm partial to the album, but I think for right now, this is, this is the smartest way to do it and probably the most helpful.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's a strange time because music that I released too is just an independent artist. It's been an experiment this past year really for me as well because I've done both, uh, released things to Spotify but also put out like the album on vinyl, you know, at the same time.

Yeah.

And it's— and, and you get both, you know. And I always find it very interesting that all ages, when I'm doing, uh, when I'm playing somewhere, I seem to be selling more vinyl than anything else whenever I go.

Vinyl's made a huge comeback, especially with, you know, the younger generation are all about They can go to Urban Outfitters and get a record player. And exactly, so it's something to collect. That's the thing about records now, is that they have to be collectible or else it's just, oh, I'd rather download it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's an excellent point. Well, you know, I want to get into some of these songs that have just been releasing right now, and you already talked about a little bit, but Light Breaking Through and Sons and Daughters coming out together. And Lauren Lee Lauren Lee wrote— did she write the song Light Breaking Through by herself, or was it with some other people? Because I know it's a very personal song involving something significant that she went through, but I'd love for you to talk a little bit about her story and maybe some of the writing of that song, as much as you know.

Yeah, so I think she wrote that song with Brandon Coker and Jared Hamilton.

Okay.

I'm not sure if I'm missing anybody there. I think I was supposed to be there that day and I ended up not being able to go, which I'm glad I wasn't there because I might have ruined it. And it's a— it's such a sweet song. And she actually did it. It was our multi-campus Easter opener, the song that we played just to start the service for Easter. And Lauren is one of my dear friends and she's, she's so genuine, which makes her so believable. Real when she's leading this song because it's coming from a real place for her. And it was one of the most beautiful moments that I think our church has shared because we were all watching it together. And it's Lauren basically telling her story of how God is making a way. And so I don't want to steal too much of her story, but Lauren, she got married within, I mean, what, 2 years ago, I think. Met her at a writer's retreat and we asked her if she'd be willing to move down to Atlanta, Georgia. And, and she, she ended up packing her bags and coming. But right before they left, right before they were going to move, they ended up getting pregnant. And so she's moving her, her new family of three down to Atlanta, Georgia and starting something totally risky and unknown.

Yeah.

And, and I think through all of that stuff and, you know, being away from family, she was forced to rely on God in a newer in deeper way, like we all are when we face things that we don't understand.

Sure.

And so, yeah, for her, I think that song came from a really, really deep place of, I believe that this light is going to break through for me. And it's really special. I love songs— I love when, when writers or worship leaders are singing songs, um, that they're still trying to wrap their hearts around all the way, because to me it feels really earnest and Like, you know, in Psalm, I think 63, when the psalmist says, "God, my God, I thirst for you as in a dry and weary land where there is no water." There's something to me about being in the place where the song is speaking exactly what you're trying to communicate with God and receive from God that makes it so powerful for a listener and for somebody who wants to participate. Anytime Lauren is leading that song, I'm trying to be in the room or I'm trying to watch it on a stream because it's a really sweet thing.

Yeah. Well, and also just, you know, part of her story. I know as I was reading about it, getting ready for this episode tonight, that she was dealing with some postpartum depression as well that she was going through. And again, as you talked about, sometimes it's while you're in the midst of it, it's, it's good to hear those things because there are times when we just have to say but yet still I will praise him, you know. Praise God anyway. And I think there's maybe a lot of that going on right now in this time where we, we are isolated from each other a lot, and we're feeling like, you know, sometimes we just have to use the force of will at times and say, I'm still— even though I'm even grieving right now, because I think whether a lot of us know how to name it that or not, we're grieving loss right now. And I think I think sometimes to just come in that loss and say, I will still praise the Lord and believe that there will be light breaking through, it can be a very powerful testimony in these times for sure. And I hope it'll be something that can just bring a lot of hope as more and more people hear this song, because there's certainly a lot of need for hope today for sure.

I love what you said about— and correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting what you said this way, but I that faith is, is just as much of an act of will as it is of anything else, you know. I think it's interesting how faith can sometimes be this, um, in our heads it's this ethereal, uh, feeling or something like that. But more, more than, more than that, it's, it's this act of willpower and this decision that we make. And I think you really nailed it when you said that about, especially when we're singing, when it comes to worshiping and choosing to place our trust in God when we don't have a clue what's going on.

Yeah, no, I think that's pretty close to what I was saying for sure. And I think we're recapturing some ways that, you know, the Psalms have so much room for lament in them, and we've, I think, neglected that in a lot of the ways over the years because it feels almost weird at times to have like a lament song in the middle of a worship set. But when we get to times like right now we understand why, like, the Book of Psalms is so essential and why those songs that, you know, were sung at one point by the entire congregation when Israel would gather together. It makes sense why their hymn book was so filled with, like, 40% were lament songs of crying out to God of, you know, where are you in the midst of this darkness and this struggle? And even as you said, I'm— as you're thirsting and desperate for water. So it's great to have these songs that can really speak into that a bit and be reminded of the hope in the midst of all of that, for sure. Well, I, you know, as we start to wind down our conversation a little bit, I'm definitely going to be playing a song at the end of the show. And just in just a minute, I'm going to let you actually pick that song, because I'd love for you to pick our closing song today. But, but just something to ask you about as well. What's something that, that you are hopeful about in the coming days? I just wonder if there's anything that's been on your mind that, you know, you're just really looking forward to and find a lot of hope been?

That's a really great, great question. And I don't want to launch premature— prematurely into an answer. I do think that one thing I'm hopeful about is, I think people are getting a renewed sense of the value of, of personal relationships with, with others. Yeah, I'm definitely guilty of having tasks or having a schedule take priority over the people in my life. And I think the quarantine and the slowdown and the pull away, um, even as an introvert, has, has really taken a toll on my being and on my heart. Because I think I'm just remembering again all the people in my life who I really value and who I love so much. That maybe I've had whack priorities, you know? So I think this has been a good reminder, and I'm really hopeful that that's not just an isolated case with me. I think a lot of my friends have expressed the same thing where we're all looking forward to just the simple joy of being with other people. And I think you can see who Jesus is. If Jesus is, you know, living in our hearts and we're new creations in him, then each person that we interact with is exhibiting a new facet of God's image that we, we might not know or, or get to see often enough. And so I think, yeah, people are— I'm hopeful that as we get to get back into social situations, that we'll have more, um, we'll have a little bit more love for each other in a, in a real way. So that's, that's something I'm excited about.

Yeah, well, I, I hope that too. You know, it's— gosh, there's times that it feels so discouraging, other people at times, especially like when we're heading into another political season, right? And that's my worry. It's like, as we get all back together, can we remember the way that we've kind of set those things aside and remember that we are all people together and not be so at each other's throats? And so that's— now, those are excellent thoughts. And, and yeah, I do miss people. I do miss those relationships and getting together, and I think it's going to be very meaningful. It's hard to see exactly what the new normal will be when we come out of all of this, but I'm grateful to know that, that people do still seem to value, maybe more than ever, those relationships. So those are, those are good closing thoughts for us today, Clay, and I appreciate it. So you've had a second to think about it. What song do you think we should close out with today on the show?

Well, I think we talked about Light Breaking Through, and I think I think given the state of our lives right now, and it seems like things might be hopefully winding down soon, I think that would be a great song as we're all participating in the same kind of mutual experience, that we can put our hope in Jesus and let his light be the thing that guides us and gives us hope. So yeah, I I would suggest Light Breaking Through.

Excellent. Well, we will close with that song today, Light Breaking Through, from North Point Worship. And I want to let all of our listeners know that if you go to voicesinmyheadpodcast.com for this episode, we will have links to North Point Worship and all the many different ways that you can find their music online and where you can find out more about them and their ministry. And Clay Finnesand, thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Oh, thanks so much for having me.

My doubts, show me what's true.

Come do what only you can do. Erase my shame and make me new.

More like you. Even on the coldest night, there is still a warmth inside. I can see the light breaking through. I can see the light breaking through. Even in the shadow times, you don't ever run and hide. I can see the light breaking Through, I can feel the light breaking through. Speak life and give peace in the un—

and hold me When I'm barely hanging on, I believe, I believe that hope will dawn. Remind my heart I'm not alone, I'm not alone. Even in the coldest night, There is still a warmth inside. I can see the light breaking through. I can see the light breaking through. And even in the shadow times, you don't ever run and hide. I can see the light breaking through. I can feel the light breaking through. Jesus, you're redeeming all things. Light is breaking through. Lies are fading, lost in mercy. Light is breaking through. The weight is lifted, finally free. Light is breaking through.

Oh!

Illuminated by your splendor, light is breaking through.

Even in the coldest night, there is still a warmth inside. I can see the light breaking through. I can see the light breaking through. Even in the shadow times, you don't ever run and hide. I can see the light breaking through.

I can feel the Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all All that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.