Episode 349: Jaci Velasquez When God Rescripts Your Life: Seeing Value, Beauty, and Purpose When Lif

Today's podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get a free audiobook download and 30-day free trial at audibletrial.com/voicesinmyhead. That's audibletrial.com/voicesinmyhead. Over 180,000 titles to choose from for your iPhone, Android, Kindle, or MP3 player. That's audibletrial.com/voicesinmyhead. Give it a try today. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head. From her debut at age 16, Jackie Velázquez experienced an amazing roller coaster career. She had number one hit songs, platinum albums, Grammy nominations, but almost as quickly as she rose to fame, she lost it all. Her record label, her reputation, and even her marriage. In her new book, When God Rescripts Your Life, Jackie shares her journey of ups and downs with grace, humor, and trust that the story God is writing is so much richer than any story we could have dreamed of ourselves. Jackie Velasquez, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you. You know, I was glad that we were able to connect and that you were able to read the book. And yeah, thank you so much.

Well, I so appreciate you sending it over. It really was a great read. And, you know, actually reading about your radio hosting skills, I'm going to ask that this morning you don't out-host me as we talk together today.

Oh, don't worry. Trust me. I learned— I'll tell you what, I learned a lot doing radio, just how to— condense your thoughts into really short kind of blurbs. So it's, it's good, but it's also, it's something you can forget over time.

Sure.

So hopefully, hopefully I won't mess up.

Oh, it's, it's gonna be great. Well, as you know, we recorded a couple of weeks ago on my other podcast, Welcome to the Neighborhood, a Mr. Rogers tribute podcast. And yeah, I think I told you the other day when we talked briefly, but since that episode released, that podcast has broken into the top 100 on iTunes. And I, I think, I think that particular episode went all the way to like number 42. I'm not— I haven't checked lately, but you were no small part of that, so I have to thank you for helping that to happen. It was great to have you and so many talented guests on that podcast, and your version of, of "You Can Never Go Down the Drain" is delightful if our listeners haven't heard it, but you did a great job with it.

Thank you, it was so much fun. I just liked the concept of doing something that was so out of my wheelhouse. And so like intricate that it was just so much fun. I mean, you can't go wrong with Mr. Rogers songs.

It's really hard to go wrong in that regard, that's for sure. Well, Jackie, again, we're here to talk about your book today and what you've done. I'm excited to go a little more in depth with who you are today and not just talk about Fred Rogers, although I feel like we could probably do that all day if we wanted.

For sure. Sure.

I'd love to start by just sharing, if you don't mind, Amy Grant's endorsement of your book. I think it's a great jumping-on point. She writes, "Jackie's recollections of her life are worth reading for two reasons: she doesn't sugarcoat the gritty details, which is a good payoff for the curious reader, and in telling her story, she finds the wonder and mystery of God's endless ability to turn our chaos into beauty." So my question for you after reading what Amy wrote Was it a scary thing for you at all to sit down and write the story of your life in such an honest way?

Yes, it was scary because you have to— when you think about a book and you think about your life, it plays out in your head, but it's different to see it on paper because once you see it on paper, it's real. And then once it releases into other people's hands, you can't take it back because it's forever there. So of course that was scary, but I knew that in this day and age, we seek and we need authenticity because so many times we feel like everybody else got the memo and we didn't. And the truth is, I mean, we all have faced challenges, we are facing challenges, we're going to face challenges. What do we do with those things? What do we learn from them? Can we learn from them? And I think that that was for me a part of why I wanted it to be authentic and be real. And just, I have no need to sugarcoat things because why would I? I mean, that would be in an essence lying. So to me, telling the truth is so important and it's so valuable, even just for my personality type. It's just really valuable to be honest and to share our brokenness. Because think of— when you think of being broken, you think of, oh, that's shameful, that's embarrassing, which it is. You're like, oh, this is embarrassing. I'm ashamed of me. But who can— is what you have to get out of ourselves and think of what can this story do to help somebody else walk down their road and walk through their challenge? To feel like they're just not doing it alone. We all have gone through it.

Yeah, well, you know, just this morning I posted a Fred Rogers quote that I think applies here, actually. And it says, okay, it says, your wounded heart is a beautiful heart, is what he said. And I think that is so true, because if you were sugarcoating things and you weren't giving us your full honest self, we wouldn't have the benefit of seeing the true beauty that's there, often in the woundedness. And so I appreciate the way that you were able to share your story. It was a very compelling read. And, you know, your singing career, you write about it, it took off with a platinum album when you were only 16 years old. And that must have just been an incredible joy in your life. What was that like as a 16-year-old?

It was surreal. As a 16-year-old, it was very surreal. I remember thinking, is this my life, or am I— or am I watching a movie? Because it felt like a movie. So for me, watching, having all that go on, it just felt like it was somebody else's life and I was playing her part. But then at a certain point during that time, like when stuff was happening so fast and success was rolling in so quick, it became a blur. Like I couldn't, if I look back at that timeframe, people will say, do you remember when we went to XYZ? And I'm like, I can't even remember because it just became a blur during that time.

And I was, I was going to say, as it probably is, as joyful as those moments are and, you know, like being on the double words and all those things for the first time, I wonder, like, can you really enjoy it in the moment or is it just so big and almost larger than you at the time? Is it something that can really be enjoyed or you have to almost do it in retrospect?

Actually, I think for me personally, you have to do it in retrospect because at the time, first of all, you feel inadequate. You feel just so grateful that you're even in the same building with some of these people, such as Amy Grant.

Yeah.

It's just like larger than life. It's so much bigger than me or than any certain person. So it's just so exciting. And you just, you feel so honored that God would like, choose you, because like, I mean, there's tons of amazing singers in this world. The fact that, you know, the fact that I got— that I was able to walk that path, that he chose me to walk that path, is still just, um, is so humbling. Truly, that's humbling to me.

Well, I would think it would just be so fulfilling to, to know that you had been a part of, you know, the spiritual growth and development of so many people. For a while I was a youth pastor, and I would go to different events with teens, and sometimes there would be like seeing not exactly talent competitions, but things where teens would come and share different songs and things. And I can't tell you the number of times that songs like On My Knees, you know, I get on my knees, would come by. And I thought, you know, this is really, uh, implanted itself. It's not just Jackie singing anymore. This is really something that God's using and planting in the hearts of of people's hearts and minds, you know, and it's really a beautiful thing. And that's got to be hard to even describe, I would think.

It is hard to describe, but like recently there was a young lady who came up to me and she said that two of her songs got her through cancer and got her through— was it her? Her husband's cancer. It was her and her husband's, they both cancer. And I can't remember, it was either her husband or her father. I can't remember that part. But she said that "On My Knees" and "Flower in the Rain," they got her through that time in her life because she would just listen to it over and over again while she was going through chemo. And I just, I think to myself, when people say your song, your song, I always go, yeah, it was my song, but it really was, it was not me. It was the Lord, you know, just using me because I was the one to say yes. And a lot of times God is just waiting for, you know, for people, for us as believers to, we say we wanna be used, we wanna be used, use me, Lord, use me, Lord. But then when he says, okay, Hey, do this, we kind of stand back and we go, ah, no, I don't want to do that, no, no, no. And I just happen to be the one to say yes. So, and I think that that's actually a challenge for each person listening. If you are asking God to use you, be ready to say yes. So, and you have to walk in obedience, and that's hard to do. Obedience is difficult because 98.7% 7% of the time when he asks you to do something, it's going to be something you don't want to do.

Yeah, yeah, it seems like, uh, it seems like following Jesus means that more often than not you get problems you wouldn't have had if you didn't decide to follow him in the first place. It's true.

Well, well, he never said, hey, come walk with me, it's going to be super easy. Hey, come follow me, it's going to be super easy. He said, "Come suffer with me," because a lot of times it is suffering. But see, what we have to remember is we're not working towards today, towards the now life. We're working towards eternity, and that's why he calls us to be fishers of men, so that these people will have eternity with him as well.

Sure. Well, you know, you mentioned suffering, and that gets me to the next thing that I wanted to talk about with you. You know, to many people, your story might seem kind of like a fairy tale, and just sort of your meeting meteoric rise at a young age and all the success that you had experienced, but there were problems and challenges that were also hard for you to face as well. And you write about in the book, you say, ignoring what we don't like in our lives does not make those things invisible, it just puts off the inevitable. And the inevitable, yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, some of those inevitable things were kind of, were kind of happening all around you. And, and you, you wrote about kind of being surrounded by people who would tell you yes a lot, you know. Would you, would you want to elaborate just a little bit more on sort of that experience, especially at a young age? Because I think that would be a hard thing for any young person to come in contact with.

Oh, for sure. Like 16, 17, 18 years old, you're— for me, because of the success and because of the financial success of everything that was happening, I mean, you're basically, you're paying everybody. So If you think of people around you as being your employees, like you're their paycheck, you're gonna have a lot of yes people around you. Yes, that looks great. Yes, that's a great idea. Yes, I'll be at your house, let's paint. Yes. So it's very difficult when somebody finally says no in those situations. And I think for me as a young person, I could have handled it so much better, so much different. But I was young. And that's the thing. We make mistakes. We make poor choices. And thankfully, the God that we serve can take those mistakes, take those choices, and just rework them, rescript them to be something better than we could have planned for our own lives. Like for me, I wanted to do a movie called Chasing Poppy. I got an audition. It was my first audition. And I got the part. I was like, whoa, this is gonna be awesome. I get to do a movie on 20th Century Fox, like a film. Yeah, it was a romantic comedy. The original rating was going to be PG-13. And so the director and, you know, the director and the writers, they changed a bunch of things for me so it would be PG. So because I— so I could do it. So then the yes people around me were saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, Jackie. But there were a few no people. One of them being my boyfriend at the time, the second one being my mom, the third one being my manager. But in my brattiness, in my very selfish human way, I was like, no, No, you're wrong. This is what I'm supposed to do. Because oftentimes we confuse our dreams with God's will and God's calling. So I was like, this is going to be a dream come true. I'm going to get to make a movie. This will be awesome. And now looking back, I think, wow, Jackie, Yeah, that was a really poor choice. What were you thinking? What were you doing? Because when we make a poor choice, a lot of times we follow it up with another poor choice, trying to fix the poor choice we made previously. Instead of allowing God to do what he can do, we try to DIY our mistakes. That's what it is. And I know that I did. So for that film, I didn't listen to the no people. I was like, no, I know better. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. This is God's calling. This is what— this is his will for my life. So I did the film and it had a lot of backlash. A lot of radio stations and events started kind of dropping, dropping my music and dropping me as a performer at their events. Yeah. And so I was like, oh no, I've got to fix this, I've got to fix this, right?

Right.

And, and, and do you hear that narrative? I have to fix this. Okay, so that was my DIY attempt at fixing a poor choice with yet another poor choice.

Yeah.

So my— I had broken up with that boyfriend who said no because, you know, he was not telling me what— giving me the answers I wanted to hear, right? I got married a little bit, like about 11 months after the movie, or no, about a few months after the movie came out. And I'm married. I always say I accidentally got married and intentionally divorced. I married somebody. I married him to try and, subconsciously, I married him to make it look like I was safe again for the whole family. Like, Jackie's grown up, she's gotten married, she made a poor choice, it's okay. But so I accidentally got married and intentionally divorced. Uh, we were married for about a year and a couple months. So that was my DIY attempt at fixing mistakes. But then what happens when you make a mistake and another mistake and you're trying to fix it all yourself? The problem is a lot of times we run away. We run away, but the problem with running away is we take us with us. So that's what that whole delaying the inevitable. At some point we have to stop, turn around, and face the critics, face our poor choices, face our mistakes. We can't keep running.

Sure. Well, do you mind if I ask a question real quick in the midst of this? I'm loving hearing your story again and just kind of your perspective on things, but something occurred to me as well. This, talking about the movie Chasing Poppy, to me, I think I would be in the same place you were, honestly, as far as like, wow, what a great, you know, opportunity to get to be in a film, and I, I love romantic comedies, and this will be fun, you know. And, and I think in my mind that the backlash that you experienced for doing this film, I think mostly because it wasn't just 100%, you know, quote-unquote Christian movie. And I think about that in the context of like, okay, I know an awful lot of Christians and they're not watching exclusively Christian movies, you know, and yeah, they're not listening to exclusively Christian music or any other things. And on one level, you know, and I understand you feel like it was a huge mistake for you, but on the other level, I think what a hypocritical type crowd, you know, on some level, because these are the people who will go out to, you know, see whatever the latest rom-com is or watch something like that, and they don't have necessarily that kind of judgment on anybody else who are in those films or even watching it themselves. And it's one of those head-scratchers for me that I'll come back to, like, why are we so judgmental of people who were trying to do something maybe in a little more mainstream and hopefully do it in an excellent way. Now I think since that time I am seeing more Christians in secular things, and I actually kind of applaud that, you know. I think it's a good thing. I want everybody to do the best art that they can do and do it for the glory of God, whether it has this Christian label or not. But I also wonder, like, That must have been incredibly painful for you to have sort of an audience of people who were really loving what you were doing to all of a sudden probably it just felt like a complete betrayal on your end in some ways.

Well, I think at that time, let's say, was that 2000? Came out in 2002 or something like that. I think the industry was different. It was a lot more Well, first of all, the Christian— the Christian industry at that time was a much bigger industry. It was a huge machine.

Sure.

Um, but I think that it was, it was a different mentality back then. And, you know, just 18 years ago or 17 years ago, it was a different mentality. So I think nowadays it wouldn't be such a big deal, but at that time, I think it was also parents thinking, oh, Wait, she's doing something secular, but my daughter looks up to her. She must have lost her faith, you know? And they're trying to protect their kids, which I understand now that I have kids. It's like, oh, ah, that may not be a good role model for my son or daughter. But, you know, at the time, I look back and I look at my attitude and my thought process behind it. And I don't think I was in the— I don't think I was— my heart was in the right place because I should have taken— to whom much is given, much is required. So sometimes, sometimes we have to say no to something that looks so shiny and pretty.

Sure. Well, and I can totally understand that perspective of it too. I just think it's interesting the way that times change and they can change, you know, pretty radically. I mean, now we have sort of the opposite extreme. We have like Snoop Dogg doing gospel albums, and you know, it's sort of this other, you know, extreme that we've gone to. And it's an interesting, like, sort of perspective on the other side of things. But so, so you, you write in the book again about making the movie, about rushing into a marriage that seemed pretty quick to be a mistake, and, and how painful that was. And I did want to interject one other thing before we get too far into the rest of your story and how God was re-scripting your life. This is just almost a passing moment in your book, but I find it so interesting that when you moved to California, you moved in with a young lady named Katy Hudson. And who do we know her as today?

She's Katy Perry now. Yes, yes, yes. She, um, she, uh, I, well, I was, uh It was a condo, well, an apartment in Beverly Hills. And, you know, we had 2 rooms, a kitchen, and I bought a couch. And, and was interesting because during that time she, um, she was making her first— well, she wasn't making her first record, she was still in artist development with Glen Ballard. So she, um, so she and I had really flip-flop schedules. So I would leave the house at like 4 AM to be on set by, you know, 5, 5:30. And she would be like coming into the house. She wouldn't wake up until, you know, 10 AM to be in the studio till like, you know, 2 AM. So we only saw each other during the weekends.

And I have—

I definitely— I used to wake her up in the mornings on Saturday mornings accidentally. I would turn on music and she would just be so upset. She'd go, "Ugh, you woke me up." And I'm like, "Dude, I am so sorry." But But she was fantastic. She is so funny. She is one of the funniest people I've ever met. And she can get away with saying stuff that nobody ever can get away with saying.

Is that right?

She totally can. She just has— I always thought to myself, she has the "it" factor. It's like you can't put your finger on it, but some people have it. And it's a real thing. And she always did.

Well, that was an interesting part of your story. Most people can't just say, "Well, I roomed with Katy Perry," or however cover it with. So that's pretty cool. But let's get back a little bit again to how you said there was, there was a bit after you had done the movie and after you had been through this painful divorce and you kind of find yourself running. And, um, the, the another interesting part of your journey is you went to England for a while and literally were living in Notting Hill, uh, the same place as the movie. And I'd love for you to tell the story about why you went to England, because that's one of the greatest stories ever, but then just some of the adventures you had there.

Okay, so after the divorce, when you have to remember the fact that I was getting married, the virgin Jackie girl, you know, save yourself till marriage, true love waits kind of girl. After, you know, when I announced that I was getting married, it came out like in People magazine. There were like blurbs all over the place. So everybody knew. So then when the divorce came, I remember that Christianity Today got ahold of me and wanted to do a story on the divorce. And I was like, oh my goodness, this is gonna be public too. So of course I wanted to run away.

Yeah.

Because I knew that there was gonna be lots of stuff surrounding that and lots of, you know, criticism and questions. So instead of facing the questions, I'll just jet. So I decided to go to England to learn Spanish.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Um, that was my concept. I was like, you know, I'll just go to England because they have a great school, school there, Instituto Cervantes, and I can just perfect my Spanish. Because it may be that after this divorce gets public, or after, you know, everyone talks about it, the only thing I might have going for me is my Spanish, Latin stuff, because they don't care about, you know, that they don't really care about whether I'm in a movie or, you know, it's just more inspirational music.

Sure.

So I, so yeah, I went to the mother, motherland of English to go learn Spanish. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but the school was actually really a good school. So I would study. I went to school 4 days a week. It was like 2-hour sessions each time. And my Spanish got pretty good. I was really proud of myself that I even thought of it to go to England to learn Spanish.

Sure. I mean, it makes sense. If there's a good school there, do it. And it was probably a great experience to be there. It was just so funny reading about it. I went to the motherland of English to learn Spanish. So, terrific.

I know. I know. Well, I just figured at least I should have gone to Spain, but I didn't know anybody in Spain.

Yeah.

Like, I at least knew a few people in England. I was like, okay, cool. And I can't believe my mom didn't like throw a fit that I was moving out of the country. But she didn't. I think she knew I had to go and I had to run away.

Yeah, well, and you know, it wasn't, it wasn't just things that were going on in your life too. You wrote about some other painful things. Your parents had divorced as well along the way. I feel like you just must have had an incredible weight upon your shoulders with so many things. And most of us make terrible decisions at some point in our life, but most of us don't have sort of the entire world staring at us in the goldfish bowl. Either when those moments happen. And I— one part of your story that I love is as much as you write about your story in the book, it's also about your family and the people who were part of God re-scripting your story. And yeah, you, you have a great love story about your husband Nick and how he was a part of the re-scripting of your life. And by the way, he sounds like an amazing person who would just be great to hang out with. He's just the way you describe him. Uh, I wonder if you would mind just sharing a bit of, of the story of you two as, as we move on together, because you and Nick really do have a great story, and it sounds like he was just a very patient person and very persistently showing you what God was like throughout your whole story.

Oh my goodness, can you believe it? Like, it's— I still sometimes look at him and I go, how in the world were you so patient and So, uh, I— it is okay, so I'll tell you the story. So, so I had dated this guy Nick for a while. We broke up, I moved to England. I know, I made a movie, got married, got divorced, moved to England, came back to America, and I get a phone call from this boy who happens to be the same guy that I dated before I made the movie Chasing Poppy that told me, no, you shouldn't make the movie. So I pick up the phone and he, uh, he goes, hey, so when you gonna leave all those bad boys and come back? Like, going, first of all, I'm, I'm amazed that I felt so unworthy of him still wanting me and loving me and still, you know, wanting to even talk to me because he shouldn't have even wanted to talk to me. So he said he flew in a couple days later into Nashville and took me on a date. And then I still was not sure. I was like, I don't know. It's just too typical, right? Instead, I was ignoring the movie and the rom-com and the, like, the love story that God was trying to write for me. And he'd been trying to write for a long time for me. But I, of course, wanted to take it all into my own hands and write the story that I thought I was supposed to be living. So, um, so, uh, after about a few times after, um, we had, uh, he'd come into town, take me on dates. It was like out of nowhere, God just changed my heart completely.

Yeah.

And I fell so madly in love with him, like crazy love. And so I guess it was about a few months— how many months later? Uh, that was probably in August, and we got married in December.

Wow.

We got married quick. There are lots of details that I can't even get into. You'd have to read the But sure, and please do listen.

Yeah, well, and you know, one thing that, that too, that really speaks to his character, I think, when I was reading about the story of you two, was while you were married, you were touring with his band. Yeah. And, and you were writing about, wow, he's just being so rude to me. And what he actually was doing was being very much a gentleman and keeping his distance because of how he felt about you, and he didn't want to make a wrong move. And I thought, man, that guy has some great character about him. I mean, I really did.

And he does. He does. He's got an amazing character to him. He, um, yeah, I definitely think that God has shown me just through my husband's love, the intentionality and the redemption that is the love of Jesus.

Yeah.

Um, often we think we're not worthy of his love because of the choices that we've made. You know, worthy of God's love because we feel dirty, we feel broken, we feel hurt, we feel unusable, we feel disposable.

Yeah.

But God is so good, and he is patiently waiting, ready to just take you in his arms and use you and make you new because you are beautiful to him. You are not broken. You are so worthy of his love.

Yeah, amen. Well, you know, I want to be conscious of your time. Are you okay to go just a few more minutes with us here?

Sure.

Okay, great. We were about at 30 minutes and I just didn't want to take advantage of your time. But so we've gone to the place in your story where you and Nick got together, and that's a wonderful read in itself, just hearing about that. And how it worked. But then God blessed you with, with your first child and, and then another child along the way. And one of the, the part of God re-scripting your story, and I'd love if you didn't mind just talking a little bit about it, there were some challenges with Zeland that you didn't expect along the way. And would you want to share just a little bit about that and, and, and how that was as a, as a mother handling this?

Um, my husband and I have been in ministry since— well, since I was 9 years old, and since he was 10, he started playing at his church. And, you know, ministry requires communication, so our whole lives we've been in communication ministering. Okay, so we, uh, I was pregnant with Zeland. I prayed for 10 fingers, 10 toes, and, you know, they were— when he came out, I remember thinking Oh my goodness, those are the most precious 10 fingers, 10 toes. I mean, I looked at his feet and I was like, oh my goodness, those are his dad's feet. So cute. It was perfect. Um, and while he was in my belly, I remember Max Lucado praying for Zealand and praying for his life and seeing him in ministry. And so that But, you know, I had felt that too. I was like, this boy is going to be in ministry. God is going to use him. I can't wait to see what this is going to look like. So Zeland, he's born. At about 19 months old, we started seeing that he wasn't meeting the, you know, developmental kind of milestones that normal, you know, kids his age were meeting.

Sure.

So my typical thing as in, you know, run away to England to learn Spanish, bury my head in the sand situation. I prefer doing that. But, but with my son, I couldn't bury my head in the sand. Yeah, I knew I had to, to get some, you know, get some answers. So we had early intervention come in and they, they diagnosed him with a pervasive developmental delay. Well, developmental delay, that means he's just delayed. He's going to catch up. As time went on, he wasn't catching up as quickly as I would hope. I would have hoped. His little brother was kind of really on his heels and really putting together, you know, big sentences, like big words. He was able to to focus in on stuff, and Zeeland wasn't. So at the end of second grade, um, all the school system got together. Um, well, let me backtrack. So kindergarten year, I learned a new word for the first time, the word IEP. Okay, IEP. I'd never heard that word, and It stands for Individualized Educational Program. So because of Zeland's pervasive developmental delay, he had an IEP. So I was so happy, like they rolled out a red carpet for him. His, uh, he was going to have a helper, he was going to have a speech therapy, occupational therapy, um, because we've been doing that privately already, but he was going to get it at school now. So That was awesome. I was so excited. Second grade year rolls around. At the end of the year, they get together with the pediatrician, all the people from the school system, all like the, um, you know, the people from the district, from the, you know, the principal, the vice principal, pediatrician, um, everybody. And they— we want— we're supposed to have an IEP meeting. So we're sitting there, it's a big conference room. You know, neon lights above, and it's just super, super formal. And so they tell me, Mrs. Gonzalez, Zeland is autistic. And I was like, uh, what? Yeah, I— it broke me so— broke me down so hard. It— because basically what you're— what that statement meant, that they were saying my son was broken. Well, he can't be broken. He can't be autistic because you have to remember he's gonna have a ministry.

Yeah.

He— God's gonna use him for something. He— this is not the way it's supposed to go. This is not the movie and the script I had for him. It was supposed to be different. So I had to go through— I went through about 6 months of just anger. I was so angry with God. I had to go through mourning. I had to mourn the dreams I had for my kid, for my son while he was in my belly, throughout his baby life, his toddler life. I had to mourn those dreams. And I was angry with God. And I remember yelling at God. I was in my bed just yelling at God. But you remember in Psalms, as David, he yells at God, he's angry with God, he feels like God has forgotten him, and then the next minute he's praising God. But, and it's amazing to me how God didn't just smack me down at the things I was saying to him. Instead, he actually said nothing. He never said a word during that 6-month period. During that mourning process that I had, he never said a word. I had— but after I stopped asking the question, why me, why me, why me, and I started asking the right question, which was, why not me?

Mm-hmm. Wow.

That's when God said, okay. Get up, dust yourself off. It's time to fight. Yeah. Okay. So it's been quite the learning process trying to learn how to advocate for your son using all these words you never thought that were never in your vocabulary.

Yeah.

You know, pre-vocational. I don't know what that meant. Yeah. You know, cognitive processing. XYZ. It's just like, okay, what does this mean? But you know, the thing with God, he's not going to give you more than you can handle. He's going to equip you for the why not me situations. Because when we start asking that question, why not me, God sees something in each one of us that we can't see in ourselves.

Sure.

He sees more strength than we thought possible. He sees more tenacity than we thought possible because he does not see broken. He sees beautifully, perfectly, wonderfully made in the image. So I guess the challenge is in your life, what do you— what is it in your life that you're saying, why me? Why me? Why me? Ask God, why not me? Yeah. Okay. What can you do to use this? How can I be a vessel for others to bring other people into your kingdom? And you know, the truth is there are times to this day that I still go, God, I don't get it.

Yeah.

I look at my son, he struggles to communicate, and I'm going, I don't get it. And you know, that's okay. That's okay that we don't get it. We're not supposed to get it. We are servants and followers of Jesus. And at times, He is gonna answer our questions and just like answer our prayers, our questions super quick. And sometimes we won't know until we see Him in heaven. Yeah. But we trust and we know that we have a good, good Father who wants the best for us and who is the best director that there could ever be. Yeah, you know, when we watch Titanic, okay, Titanic, every time I watch it, I always think to myself, maybe this time, maybe this time she won't let him go. Yeah, maybe there will be, maybe, maybe they'll figure out there really is enough space on that plank for both of them. Every time she lets him go. As she's saying, "I'll never let you go." Okay?

Right, exactly.

So then, you know, but the director for that film, that was his vision. That was his plan. That was the way it was supposed to go. We have the ultimate director if we allow him to direct our steps, to direct our stories, to direct the movie of our life in his perfect way, in his perfect will. And not confusing our dreams, our concepts, our stories, our scripts with his will and his way.

Yeah. Well, that's true. Thank you for sharing a bit. No, this is great and I love hearing about it. And by the way, it was great to read not only about Zeland but about Soren too. And one of my favorite parts of the book, I mean, by the way, everybody read the book, by the way, for more details. But Zeland has some incredible gifts too that you talk about in the book. I mean, he even save somebody's life at one point, you know. It's incredible. But, but I think my favorite story in the whole book, I think, is when you and Nick were planning on taking Soren out on tour with you just for a short time so that, that he could have some time with just you guys, because Zealand was, was taking a lot more care and you wanted to make sure he wasn't neglected. And I wonder if you would mind just kind of telling us Soren's response, what, what you would expected Soren to say to this time alone away from his brother, and then what actually happened?

Okay, so what we wanted to take Soren just by himself. The boys are 14 and a half months apart, so super close in age. So, you know, Zealand requires a lot of attention, time, and, you know, we just wanted to invest some time into Sosi Bear. That's what we call him, Sosi Bear. So we had planned to take him out, you know, on like a 4-day run just with him and the band, just, you know, to just hang out with him because he is such a cool person. Like, you can have full conversations with him and you're like going, how is this kid like only in 4th grade? He is just, he's just, God has given him a gift. So all that to say, so then we tell him, hey bud, we're going to take you, we're going to, brother's going to go and stay with not on Tata, and you're gonna come with us for a few days, just you, just to hang out. And he says— his eyes welled up with tears— he goes, I, I can't live a day without my brother. And I'm like, oh, that was not the response that we were expecting. Yeah, he was supposed to be excited about just being with us. But see, that's the thing about it, God equips Soren to be the little brother to Zealand. I mean, Soren, he is not going to have the life that he probably thought he would have, but he wouldn't know anything different because he's always had a big brother who is Zealand, who is autistic. But he's not going to have the life that I possibly pictured, which was, you know, learning from his big brother how to pick up a girl. You know, learning from his big brother how to shave, it's more than likely that little brother— which is already happening, the gap is so wide— but that little brother basically takes on the role of big brother.

Yeah.

So, but the thing I think is so interesting is how God made Soren's heart to the fact that he can't live a day without his brother. So we ended up taking big brother with us, and it was super cramped in that Sprinter van. There was not enough space. And, and so, but you know, Zeeland is happy to go with Nan and Tata. He would have been actually happier to go with his grandparents, but he saw his brother's tears. And with Zeeland's autism, he doesn't know how to handle emotions. He doesn't get it. It doesn't like compute for him. So he was just like kind of worried, like stunned, like, okay, um, am I supposed to do something? So he came with us and I just, I watch the boys sometimes that, you know, Zeland will be at school and Soren will be home from school because he's sick or something. And he'll be sitting there and he goes, "Man, I wish Zeland was home. I have no one to play with." Yeah. And I'm like, man, he has no idea or like true concept that, you know, that his brother's different because to him, brother is brother. And they are two peas in a pod. They're peas and carrots.

Yeah. Well, that's a beautiful story. They just both sound like amazing kids and your whole family. Honestly, it sounds like God has done some wonderful rescripting in your life. It's not always what we planned, but it was moving to read about what has been going on in your life over the years. And I again want to thank you for your transparency. And to all our listeners right now, I want to just encourage you all to go to our website at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com because we'll have links there where you can get the book and links where you can go to Jackie's website and find out more about her. And Jackie, we haven't even had time to talk about stuff like you raising chickens and your clothing line and all the different things that you have going on, but this has been such a joy to get to sit and talk with you again. And the name of the book is When God Rescripts Your Life. Seeing Value, Beauty, and Purpose When Life Is Interrupted. And by the way, listeners, they would make great Christmas presents, so you could purchase them and give them to lots of friends and family. And Jackie, is there anything else that you would like to add to our conversation today before we close out our time together?

Yes. Okay, in the dedication on the book, because when you were talking about, you know, maybe for Christmas presents, stuff like that, mm-hmm, for this book is dedicated to anyone who's ever watched a movie more than once and hoped for a different ending. So if you know somebody like that who has watched a movie or their life did not turn out the way that they planned, and they're right in the middle of it, possibly maybe they have a child with special needs, maybe they have a divorce under their belt. Maybe their parents have split and they now have this really complicated family dynamic that is just not what they had envisioned for their life. But if you know somebody like that, then, you know, this— I really do think that this book can help them walk through that because I don't claim to have all the answers by any means. But I know someone who does.

Yes. Well, thank you. And Jackie Velasquez, thank you for taking time to stop by for another visit today, and thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for your concert or speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now, For the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. This is Rick Lee James, and the music you are hearing is from my new album, Thunder. The title track, Thunder, is a never-before-released song by the late Rich Mullins. There are also 12 other tracks made up of original music, hymns, and readings to guide the listener on a journey journey. You can buy Thunder today on clear vinyl and CD, or stream it on Spotify, Apple Music, and almost every other music streaming service. Thunder, hear it today at rickleejames.com.