Episode 401 - with John DeMuth

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Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here with us for what I know is going to be another great conversation. Conversation today. My guest this week on Voices in My Head is John F. Demuth. He is an ordained elder in the Church of the Nazarene, and John and I go way back to teen church camp days where John was a teenager and I was a youth pastor, believe it or not. He lived and worked in an inner city ministry for almost a decade in Indianapolis, Indiana. There he served on staff at Shepherd Community Center, working to break the cycle of poverty in the lives of individuals and families on the Near East Side of Indianapolis. As of August August of this year, 2020, he and his family are now starting a new work in Waco, Texas. John is also a regular on Voices in the Wilderness— I'm sorry, John is a regular Voice in the Wilderness contributor on the Pulpit Fiction podcast, a lectionary podcast for preachers, seekers, and Bible geeks. And, uh, and I have to say, it's a great podcast that John turned me on to a few years ago, and I listen almost every week now as well. But I do get a little confused when I say Voice in the Wilderness mixed with my podcast, Voices in My Head. So thus why my little bit of a mistake today. But I'm so glad to have John Demuth here with me on the show today. So John, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Hey, it's great to be here.

I really did get tripped up on that Voice in the Wilderness, and because I'm so used to saying voices on this podcast, it's almost like if I actually say the word voice, it just doesn't actually do it after over 400 episodes now. So it's great to have you though. I always enjoy when I get to hear you on that podcast, on Pulpit Fiction, because they do have some wonderful segments with a guest— I guess I would say guest preachers, seekers, and Bible geeks that they have on the show, and you're one of them. And you always do a really incredible job with the devotionals that you bring. And there's been more than a couple of times that I've stolen some ideas from the— that you've presented when I'm sharing devotions with like my praise team at church on a Sunday morning. So I'm very grateful for the ministry that you offer there.

Well, and I'm thankful for the hosts allowing me to exercise my creativity a little bit in that way, and I had a professor who introduced me to that podcast many years ago, and it's been fun to go from listener to contributor, and I don't mind you stealing some of the ideas because let's be honest, whenever we preach, we look through commentaries, we take other people's ideas and put it together and kind of make it our own.

Yeah, definitely. Well, and I think it was, uh, I think it was Martin Luther that said something to the effect of, you know, not steal and steal boldly, but basically his instruction was, if you, uh, if you can't preach, find somebody who can and use their sermons. I think it's what it was. So yeah, there's no idea that's really new under the sun, maybe, but you have a good way of putting a slant on them. It's kind of like songwriting in some way, you know. It would seem like after all this time we would run out of ideas to write about, especially on a topic about faith, but it just seems like we've barely even touched on the deep well that is there. Well, John, I'm glad to have you here today because you're one of my oldest friends, and I always have a good time getting to talk to you. And I don't mean oldest in that you're older than me or anything, I just mean longest running. And it is true, uh, What I said in the intro, John was a teenager on the district here in Northwest Ohio where I live when I was youth pastoring and doing music at my church. And I would lead music at church camp for the youth and stuff back when I was a— I don't know if I was ever a trendy youth music guy, but I was, I was a guy at that time. And, and it was great to get to know you back then. You actually said in your, your notes that you sent me, you wanted me to say that you were an awkward youth back then, and I was just a slightly less awkward youth pastor. But I don't know if that's true. I don't know if I was slightly less awkward or if you were even awkward at that time. I just felt like you were pretty mature in those days for sure. But I have good memories of those times for sure.

Yeah, and, and I think one thing that really stands out to me is I was still pretty new in my faith, and I wasn't really raised in a Christian home, and so there were a lot of things where I was still learning what was and wasn't allowed to be talked about, just kind of the unwritten rules of youth group and church camp. And I remember talking about comic books and Star Wars with you and thinking, oh, okay, this is, this is one of those that's allowed. Good, because I really like those things.

Yeah, no, and see, I had no idea that's kind of where you were. It is funny because I've always been a church kid, you know, my whole life. And so for me Sometimes I know I don't even think of them as like boundaries you don't cross when you're talking because I just don't even think in those terms sometimes. But there really are those places when you're approaching it as someone who hasn't necessarily been raised in like the church tradition of the Christian faith or even in your particular denomination that you might be in. So it's kind of funny to hear you say that, like, you know, are comic books okay to be talked about or Star Wars or whatever? So definitely, as most youth pastors will tell you, yes, that's appropriate for sure. But I want to hear, first of all, you've, you've did a, a good long stint actually in Indianapolis, Indiana at Shepherd's Community there. And I had the, the honor of getting to go and, and play some music there for some, for a revival service. Um, was it, I guess it was 2 years ago, or was it maybe just a year ago? I can't remember. 2020 has lasted 15 years, so it's hard to, to say. But you were there for, for how long at Shepherd's Community?

Well, I did my first summer— I did an internship in the summer of 2010, and then I went back and finished my undergrad at Mount Vernon, Mount Vernon Nazarene University. And then I, after college, didn't really know what I was going to do, and so I went and I went back to Shepherd Community Center and did a year-long internship. They offered me a staff position, and I was there full-time from June of 2011 until August of this year.

All right, so that was a good long stint there. What kind of things were you doing there? Because Shepherd's Community is not a church in the traditional sense of the word. It actually has so many different I would say like hands reaching out into the inner city in that area. And I would say it's probably the definition of what a church should be, but it's not definitely something that most churches actually achieve in many ways. So, so what are some of the things that you were responsible for doing there, and some of the ministries that like Shepherd's Community, uh, is still doing in their community?

Yeah, that, uh, what you said is what a lot of people say when they go to visit or when they hear about some of the things that Shepherd does is they say, "Well, every church should be doing this," and we agree with that. Now Shepherd's been doing that for 35 years, and so they're larger than most, and they're also in a city, but the basic idea is how do you look into your community and how do you get to know your community so that you can identify the needs, and then how do you creatively meet those needs? How do you come up with programs or partner with other organizations to, to try to meet some of those physical needs? Because we believe in reaching the whole person, not just the spiritual needs, not just the physical needs, not just the educational, but how do you meet all of those needs as much as you can, knowing that some people can't even begin to think about their spiritual or educational needs until some of their physical needs are met. And so we, we try to do that, and I say we, but I'm still with them, but just not there. I still talk with a lot of people from there and I'm daily being reminded of how I've been formed over my, my decade of, of living, working, and worshiping in that community. And so to go back to answer your question, what are some of the things that I did. I first started as an IT intern. I have a computer background, and so I did some basic computer repair or diagnostic stuff, just making sure that everybody else who is doing the work too had machines that ran well. And I also worked with middle and high school students. They have a pretty robust middle middle and high school program through the year, and an after-school program actually from first grade all the way through 12th grade. And so every day kids from the neighborhood— it's almost like a year-long Vacation Bible School where after school you can come get some homework help, do some club programs that have some career college focus, and a safe place for kids to come when their home life might not be the best. And so I worked with middle and high school students consistently for about a decade, and one of the privileges of doing that is being able to see kids graduate and go off to college or go into, go into career. And also to see younger siblings come through, something that you can often miss unless you're in something for for quite many years. But Shepherd does a lot because we identify so many different needs they have. For a while we had a chicken coop and we provided fresh eggs for families, and that operated more as a co-op instead of just a handout for parents to come in and learn how to take care of chickens. Same with a garden co-op as well. Each family could get a little plot and we would have tomatoes that were grown by inmates at one of the closer prisons. And so we jokingly said some that had experience growing plants were now able to, to grow some tomatoes and other starters to, to give back to a community that either they were from or that they were going to move back into. And so that was not just able to provide for the families in our neighborhood, but also to provide for those who are in prison, knowing that there are some that still want to make their communities a better place, and they were able to do that. We also— food pantry, we had a health clinic for a while, and I say some of these programs that we discontinued because as the community changed, as the needs changed, sometimes we had to make hard decisions to stop some programs and instead partner with other organizations who were doing it better. And so now we have more of a partnership with medical professionals instead of having a clinic on-site one day a week.

I'd say there's a lot of wisdom in that, you know, trying to continually assess. There's one thing that ministries often get into is staying with something long after it's proved to be helpful, you know. And so I think that's kind of a good thing. But what a unique thing, you know, to think of your ministry there being part of in the inner city, helping people raise chickens, you know, and grow gardens. It literally is like you're being a peculiar people right in the midst of that setting there. I loved when I got to visit you there and do some music there. And I've always been amazed by that great ministry. And, and It was Giacomo's Pizza too, which is also worth visiting Indianapolis for, for sure, in that time. But we had some great fellowship in those places, and I've always been inspired by that kind of ministry focus. I wish we could figure out ways to do it more effectively globally, I guess, you know, where we're less about maybe the fancy production on Sunday morning and more about being in the life of the community, which has become even more difficult in the age of COVID that we're in right now, which hopefully in the next few months as vaccines are distributed, we're going to, you know, be less restricted in ways that we were. But here you were at a ministry in Indianapolis, and you started feeling what I'm going to call— and you can correct me if I'm wrong— but I think I call this among most ministers a holy restlessness, um, that you were feeling God was calling you to something new. Not exactly sure what that was going to be at the time, but it ended up leading you, um, to Waco, Texas for kind of a not completely dissimilar but a different kind of ministry. Uh, tell us a little bit of that story, just some of the ways that you felt God moving in your heart and maybe even in the heart of your family as you were praying and thinking through some things. And first, just talk about what led you to Waco before we get into a little bit more of what you're doing there and some of the surprises that God has brought you along the way.

Yeah, I think restlessness is the best word to use. It wasn't a— I didn't want to say that I felt called somewhere else, but I just knew something had to change. I didn't know if that meant a role change or something more local. I considered other churches on the district, maybe not the one that I was currently at, or maybe a role change there, but also I just wanted to see what God was speaking into the restlessness. And so I I didn't go into that season thinking, "Okay, where am I going to go? What am I going to do next?" I didn't want to look too much to the next thing to take away from the ministry that I was in. I didn't want to be distracted and disserve the teenagers and the families that I worked with by looking too much to the next thing. So I wanted to be sensitive to that. And so my prayer through that time was, God, what are you trying to teach me through this, this restlessness? What are you wanting me to do either differently here or where are you wanting me to go? I have a 4-year-old now, and so even thinking about moving across town is kind of a big deal when you have a family. And I also just knew that all of the challenges that would come with that. So I started reaching out to different mentors. Started to have some similar conversations to my initial call to ministry, and so I started going to people that I trusted to say, "What did you do when you went through a similar season of life?" and tried to pick and learn from that. And through that, I was challenged by one of my previous professors to send some resumes out to different areas of the United States and He encouraged me in January of this, this year. And again, as you said earlier, it does seem like a very long year because of COVID and everything. But he invited me to come to South Texas, and in 5 days we went from San Antonio to Austin to Waco to Houston. So it was quite a bit of driving. I kind of almost got overwhelmed with just some of the cultural differences. It's still the United States, but it's Texas. It's kind of its own thing. The plants look different. You don't really see any cacti in the Midwest unless they're on a shelf somewhere in a windowsill that someone has had. But the birds look different, and so I came and just just to see what God was doing in this area. Through that journey we had to stop in Waco and there was a church that was at a point where they were trying to see what were they going to do next. Were they going to change because the community around them had changed so much? Or through all the years of attendance decline and the community changing and through being overwhelmed, were they going to decide to close. I like to say my preaching was so bad that they just decided to close, but I think that they were a little overwhelmed with all of the— just all the changes that would need to take place. The community had changed a lot. Even since we've been here, we've seen a community in transition, and so they voted to close and I was asked a few months later if I would come bring my experience and all of the opportunity that I saw in the neighborhood, would I bring that and move to Waco? And that was not an easy decision. I have had in-laws that were just 5 minutes away, and I don't know how most people get along with their in-laws, but my wife says that I am their favorite child. We get along quite well.

So that was—

That was sad to go and hard to leave friends and family and relationships that we spent, you know, a decade building, but also knowing that we really did believe that God was preparing us for something like a new work in Waco, taking everything that we learned over the decades of identifying needs and figuring out how to meet those needs either through your own organization or partnering with other organizations. And so I've daily reflected on my many years at Shepherd of being learned and formed and to see what compassionate ministry could look like, what church planting could look like, and I'm daily grateful for that and excited for the work that's happening and the work that will happen in the years and months to come.

Yeah, so you've been in Waco since August, right?

Yep, early August.

So here we are in December, literally time of recording this on the first day of winter now, which I'm sure looks much different in Texas than it did in Indianapolis, Indiana, for sure. Um, even just the drive there to move there, I mean, you must have felt like in many ways, um, almost like Abraham in some ways, like, where are we going and, uh, what happens when we get there? Although you may have had a little more information than Abraham did, uh, in Genesis. But, um, I wonder, once you did get there though, when you're, when you're starting a new work and a new, um, church plant, you don't just start off day one with like, okay, I'm here, we have the building, come on in. What are some of the things that you've been doing in, in preparation for this launch? And are you in fact at a place where you kind of have considered yourself to have already launched, or are you still sort of in the preliminary planning stages of this?

Well, I think if, if COVID wasn't a thing, we may have launched by now, but COVID has, as with everybody, has really slowed things down. Sometimes I, I, I don't like that, and sometimes I'm really grateful for that because it's allowed me to be outside more. I can't really go door-to-door and talk with my neighbors because they tend to keep the door shut and stay away, and that's fine, and that's just the state of things that we're in. And we also can't really invite a lot of people to come to an event. That just wouldn't be wise right now. And so we've used this time as a season of really getting to know the community. Seeing what the community is like, seeing what the local schools are like, what the other nonprofits are like. And so I don't think day one I started making calls, but I started, you know, Googling and just talking with different people, asking them what things existed, what other nonprofits there were, what other churches were in the area, what the schools were like. And then started calling and having Zoom calls. And so we've been a part of some parent-teacher meetings at the local elementary school, even though our daughter isn't enrolled yet. I started having some, again, online calls with some other nonprofits to see what needs they are already aware of in the neighborhood. And then we've had— I don't know if you want to call it serendipity or God opening doors, whatever you want to call it— sometimes conversations just happen. Sometimes we get voicemails left on our answering machine, or when we have someone working on our plumbing, they give us a connection that we never would have thought about. And so I write that down real quick and have the call there. And at this point, I would say we haven't officially launched, but we do have a very small group that meets once a week in a very— in our home right now, sometimes in the church building, and we're doing a lot of vision casting of what we see in the community and what we think the church might look like in the future because we're doing things a little backwards. Most church plants, from what I've heard, start with people and then they look to either acquire a building or rent space, and we have a building but we don't really have a congregation yet, and our goal really isn't to to get more people to come into church. Our goal is to help the neighborhood look more like God intended it to be, and we believe that some will want to come to church through that, but our goal isn't to increase numbers because we could get a bunch of people from other churches to come pretty easy, but we would rather have people come to know God and see how their lives could be different through that and then provide a space for them whether it's at our church or other churches, for them to be a part of a faith community. And so I guess our vision is that the community would see this church as their church, whether or not they attend here, and they would see me and my family as their pastor and people that they could come to if they need anything, whether or not they already have a pastor. So that's kind of our vision. It might be a little vague, It might be a little different, but we think that that's as faithful as we know how to be.

Well, and it sounds like you've kind of taken on the role— at least you're envisioning yourself maybe as not so much specifically just your church pastor, but you're trying to be sort of a neighborhood pastor, you know, somebody who's kind of the presence there in the neighborhood, which I can't even imagine the challenges that must be there with, you trying to social distance. And I mean, we're pretty much— because our county especially is so hard-hit with COVID right now, and the zip code I live in in particular is the highest in our county. So we literally have like, you know, neighbors around us that have got it. And we're, you know, there's just so many challenges to, you know, how do I love my neighbor, how I love my family. The best way it seems like right now is to to stay away from them, you know, and be as distant as you can. So there's all these challenges. And so on the one hand, I always want to remind people when they're doing work like this or stepping out in some faith, not just doing this work, but when people feel led by God to do something that is bigger than them, I think oftentimes we feel like, well, that means if we say yes the obstacles are just going to leave and we'll just be able to walk straight into this thing. I think in reality, when we say yes to the thing God is calling us to, the obstacles just abound, you know. And I do feel like that's reality. And then part of God's being present in those things is not that the obstacles are removed or that things even get easy, but I do think we start seeing confirmations along the way of like, this is where we were supposed to be. I'm gonna ask you about one specific story that I want to hear more about, and it started with an Instagram feed which, which made me think, hey, I need to have John on here and talk about this. And you said you had a few other stories that were similar to this, but I want you to share it because it's a reminder of many stories I've heard in the past, and I've even seen it in my own life a few times. Of where God has done something that only God could do. You know, it's something that we could try and reproduce it if we want to try to make it happen, but unless it's just something that is truly given by God, it doesn't happen that way, you know. And so what I'm referring to is an Instagram post you made that had a picture of a check, not the amount, it just said something in like the memo line. I can't remember, it may have been made out to your work or something like that. But, um, you had a great story on Instagram about that, and I wonder if you could relay that story to my listeners here today and those who are listening into the show, because I think it, it could be a great encouragement to them and to all of us as we endeavor to follow God in our own lives and in our own mission. I'd love to hear more about that story.

Yeah, before I share that story, I want to share that I struggled whether or not I should share that story because I want to be careful that, like you said, that in obedience, there are more challenges that come, and I don't ever want to say that when someone is following God that things are just going to work out., the way that we think they are, that we're going to be blessed extra, or that those checks and those things come because of that obedience. I, I want to be careful of that because I know of a lot of people who are very obedient to God and life has just been so challenging, but God is faithful to them as well. And so when I share this, I don't want to, to say that, uh, when you, when you follow God, uh, checks will just start coming in the mail. But for me, that was an affirmation. That was something that I needed to write down in some way to look back on years from now, to look back on months from now when the days are challenging and when I'm questioning, am I supposed to be here? Am I supposed to be doing this? And I can look back similar to how we see through the Bible when they would put stones on top of each other and say, now remember what happened here. For me, that moment was, I need to remember this moment. I need to remember how I felt in this moment and what God was teaching me. And so right now we're at the point where we are, we have a name for our church, we have a vision for what we're doing. And some of my experience at Shepherd was learning how important marketing was. And so I was talking with some of my marketing friends and we were coming up with logo design and newsletter stuff, all the really boring stuff that comes with church and nonprofit work. And some people really enjoy that, and I enjoy it to an extent, but it's also kind of boring when you say, "What are you doing?" "Well, I'm working on a newsletter." That's not as exciting as hearing the other stories. But through all of that, I also saw the dollar signs coming up of how much those things cost. And knowing that we wanted to step out with our best foot forward for the community, for people who want to support us, I knew that some of those things needed to be done. And I was talking with my wife and she said, "Well, how much is all that gonna cost?" And I had a certain dollar amount in my mind if we wanted to do it well, and so I told her how much, and she said, "Well, do we have that much?" And I said, "Well, not really, but I think that's how much we need to spend if we're gonna do it right." And just a day or two later, a check came in the mail from one of our churches on the district that I knew a check was coming, but I did not expect it to be the exact dollar amount that I had in my mind. I thought maybe a portion of it would help offset the cost, but that number just was sticking in my mind days before. Thinking, if we're going to do this right, it's got to be this amount. We could try to cut corners, but I don't think it would, would be as good. I don't think it would be as effective. Or now looking back, I don't think it would be faithful to what we were hearing and what we were feeling in that. And so that was an affirmation for me. And this is just one of so many big and little stories of affirmation that that I try to write down in my journal. I try to, to have a keepsake on my shelf so that when I look at that, when I look at it, I'm reminded, okay, this, this was something. This is how I felt in that moment. And when the days are hard, I need to hold on to those, those affirmations.

Yeah.

Because right now, honestly, today's kind of hard. We were supposed to be traveling back to see family for Christmas, and we decided that that just wouldn't be wise with aging parents and with the COVID climate. And, and that's, that was a difficult decision, but we believe that's the most loving decision. Kind of like what you said earlier, how do you, how do you love your neighbor best when you have to stay 6 feet from them or more?

Yeah.

And, you know, we're really hoping this year is, it's hard not being with family. We're gonna do like a, you know, FaceTime or Skype or something Christmas with my family, but I'm there with you. It's a weird thing, and even, you know, we didn't do Thanksgiving either, and it was just sort of like, you know what, I'd rather skip one year and have 20 more maybe down the road than selfishly get together and spend the next month in the ICU possibly, because I'm seeing it more all the time. We just had somebody in our congregation pass away away, you know, with yesterday, uh, with COVID or 2 days ago. And, uh, that was on top of, uh, another, you know, her son had just passed away from a heart attack 2 weeks before that, you know. And it's just like one thing after another. And, and, uh, you would think like, uh, the loving thing to do would be, you know, get together and care for each other. But sometimes the best thing to do to care for each other, I think is to stay away, you know. And that's such a hard thing to do. I've been struggling with it in my own heart for, well, since March, I guess I would say. But how do we deal with that? So you've got that on top of the extra burden of, you know, really working to try this new plant, you know, in the midst of all that. And yet you've had—

Yeah.

Sorry, go ahead.

I was just going to say, but despite all of that, another way that we felt affirmed in our obedience to come here is we've had a very good support system be built very quickly, both through others, through other churches, a small group that we've got together. We ordered or purchased several cookie containers. I think we got 10 of them and we were thinking, you know, do we even know 10 people to make cookies for and to give out? And very quickly we had 10 families both in the neighborhood and with other friends that we've connected with already to give to, and that is just crazy for us to think about during a pandemic with my wife and I both very, very introverted to have 10 family groups, not just individuals that we feel very close to already. And that's one way that we felt very much our needs being, being provided for.

Yeah, that's terrific. Well, I'm glad to, to get to hear about some of the good things that are happening there. And just, you know, even the fact that since August you've been able to have that many relationships in a time of distancing. And it shows me some good things for the days ahead. And like we had talked about before, I don't remember if we were recording yet, but, you know, in the coming months, as hopefully, God willing, things start opening up again, hopefully this will be some fruit that will just continue to grow, you know, in your ministry there. I can't imagine what a different culture shock it must be, you know, finding yourself in Waco, Texas, which most of us only know of because of the David Koresh Branch Davidian stuff years ago when we think of Waco, but there's so much more to it.

Yeah, now we've got the fixer-upper stuff with Chip and Joanna Gaines, and so that's what most people like thinking of that a little bit more than the—

See, and I had no idea they were from Waco, so that's— That's great. So that gives us something better. You've educated me more because I didn't even know that much. So that's great. Well, what are you finding? What are you finding just kind of some joy in, in this time of year? I know we talked about maybe being a little bit nerdy or geeking out a little bit. You already said it was okay to, you know, you learned it was okay to talk about comic books and Star Wars and all that kind of stuff. What are some just just for fun things that you're, you're finding? Are you finding some creative things like that, just some hobbies to do that are just for pure fun around there?

Well, um, not, not to brag or anything, and you might not like hearing this, but I think today it's 70, almost mid-70s here in Waco. So I've been enjoying going on hikes. We've got about 20 miles of hiking and biking trails that we'll go to, to be out outside, still social distancing, but to get out and enjoy nature. And for all of those in the Midwest and back home that have to stay inside, uh, I'm sending my prayers because I can't imagine going into a winter being stuck indoors after being stuck indoors since March. And so that's one thing that, that we're really grateful for and also very much aware of the challenges of just being shut-ins for so, so long. That can just be really tiring on people. But so selfishly, we've, we've enjoyed being able to be out and about and, and do that and enjoy the nature. But honestly, I haven't really done a lot of creative things recently. Before I moved, I was doing a lot of 3D printing, but I found that You need so much creativity in starting something new that I think all of my creative juices are really going full tilt on this. And, you know, again, with the boring stuff, with the exciting stuff, and thinking through all the problem solving of, well, how do you get to know a community when you can't really be present with them? So, but I plan on getting back into 3D printing, hopefully after a season.

Yeah, that's great. So while I have you here, are you, are you all caught up on the Mandalorian TV series?

I, I am. We, we honestly did not have internet until I think like 2 or 3 weeks ago, and so I just was able to binge watch almost all of the episodes except for I think the, the most recent 2. So I think that's some of the best, best Star Wars that's out there.

So you haven't seen the series finale or the— oh, oh, you have? Okay.

Oh yeah, yeah.

You said except for the most recent two you were able to get in, so I was confused.

Yeah, when we got the internet, then we were able to just watch all of them and watch the next two as they came out. But yeah, I think it's— I mean, it's a space western, you can't go wrong there.

Yeah, I don't want to spoil it for anybody, and I'm not going to, but I must say that the character that came in at the very end of that episode, uh, they used him better in that maybe, what, 5 minutes of time than they used him in any of the other Star Wars films that we are— I mean, in the prequels or sequels or whatever, uh, where this character may or may not appear. Not giving away anything, everybody knows now. Uh, but, uh, I— yeah, I thought it was kind of brilliant actually what they did, uh, in just that short time span. And, uh, just a credit to the writing of the show, I think, for sure. Any thoughts on that?

I think we're about to Yeah, I think we're about to see what happened. I think The Mandalorian is kind of like the first Iron Man movie, and we're about to see the Star Wars universe see what happened with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where we just see all these characters be built slowly over time and interact with each other. And I'm just— I'm excited to see what, what's gonna happen. And I'm one of those Star Wars fans where it's not my religion, and I I have fun with it. And so I know there's a lot of fans out there that get really mad with either the prequels or the sequels, but for me, if I have fun, I'm gonna keep watching them, every single one that comes out, and just enjoy it.

Well, and I did ask you that actually with sort of a ministry/geeky thing in mind, because I know you're a part of the 501st— is it called the 501st? I want to say Airborne, but that's not right.

501st Legion? The 501st.

Yeah, okay.

They're bad guys doing good. And so part of my, I guess, exercising my creativity is I've got a stormtrooper suit that I made. I bought a kit and molded it to fit me about 20 pounds ago. I need to run some more to fit back into it. But it's a global nonprofit where They do community events. They also go to children's hospitals and just raise some funds for, for different things. And I've been able to do, not, not with my local garrison here, but back in Indianapolis, was able to go to the local children's hospital and to allow kids to kind of escape their realities a little bit and to enjoy being around people in costume and— it's interesting because even though they're the bad guys, they look really cool. And so the kids really— some of the kids really identify with Darth Vader because he's hooked up to machines to keep him alive, and they are too. And so it's a humbling, very tough experience, but also a very, very good experience. And I was really encouraged to see so many of my friends, whether or not they were religious, to use something that they were passionate about to give back. And to help make the world a little bit of a better place, even if it's through a geeky thing like Star Wars.

Yeah, no, I think that's one of the coolest things, and I think it's great that you were able to— I mean, it is, it is a ministry-minded thing, even if it is kind of for fun. But I love the idea of, uh, you know, so often people will go into children's hospitals and things and kind of help with that, and I think that's a pretty great ministry. I hope you can can connect maybe with some people there in your local area. I have found that having an outlet like my local comic book shop has been very valuable for me over the years. Not valuable in that it's made me money, because I've actually spent more than I should have, but valuable in the relationships that I've got to form. And I kind of consider myself, and I think they do too, their comic shop pastor, you know. It's been interesting to be in those moments where, you know, maybe there's not another person in their life to talk about, you know, kind of heavy matters at that moment. But we just try to be used wherever God will use us in those moments. And it's good to be able to find those even in the kind of fun geeky times as well. Well, hey, we're just about out of our time for our conversation right now, but before we hang up on this call today, I wanted to ask you not only, you know, the best ways to pray for you and the ministry you have going on there, but is there a way that if people want to find out a little bit more, or even maybe help out, maybe in some of the ways that you talked about today, if they want to try to find a way to support your ministry, is there a website or a Facebook page or something that we can refer them to? And I'll make sure and post it on our Voices in my head, uh, voicesinmyheadpodcast.com on our webpage.

Uh, yeah, we, we have a website coming really soon, uh, so it's, it's not live yet, but we hope to have that sometime early January. But if you have any questions about anything, or if you'd love, if you'd like to hear either more stories or how you might want to get involved on an individual basis, you can send me an email john.demuth@gardenaz.com. And again, I'll give that to you, Rick, so you can put that in either your show notes or whatever you call it. But well, just in case, the best way to— oh, go ahead.

No, just in case people are listening, I'm just gonna spell it out. It's J-O-H-N because some people spell John with J-O-N, but it's johndemuth@gardennaz.com. So John Demuth at gardennaz.com, is that right?

Yep, that's correct. And the biggest way to support, we really appreciate prayers. We know that prayer is prayer works, and we could benefit from every little bit of that. But also, if you have a church or a youth group that's really itching to maybe do a low-cost mission trip, we have some plans coming up post-COVID for groups to come out. We have a beautiful outdoor space at our church that we would love to transform to use into a community space. We have a vision to extend our Wi-Fi to our courtyard and almost making an outdoor café area so that this can be a community space, not just a space for people who come to church, but a space for anybody and everybody in the community. And we need some hands and feet to get that going. And so we're excited about different projects like that. We're looking to partner with other nonprofits in the area to not just benefit our space but the community as a whole. And so we'll have more information on that here coming real soon on our website.

Excellent. Well, I'm glad to hear it. So, well, John, it's been a pleasure to get to catch up with you. I'm so glad that we had some time, especially since we're here in the, the sort of peak holiday time, just a few days away from Christmas at this point. It's nice to be able to have a different kind of conversation. And, you know, we— this is episode 401, so I just had to a huge 400th podcast with Phil Keggy, and it was so much work just to get that done. It was good work, but it was nice today to be able to kind of chill out and have just a really fun conversation and find out some good ministry-related things on a local level there in Waco and find out how we can hopefully be involved in the coming days. So as I say to my, my guests every week when they're on here, John Demuth, thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.