Episode 410 - Captivated with Guest Kristina Hurrell

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm I'm so glad that you are here with us for another great conversation today. With the battle against a worldwide pandemic, divisions over race and equality, and a country that teeters on the political edge, the current culture can feel overwhelming. How do we let go of fear, rediscover hope, and find the courage to believe in better things? Well, throughout her life, As an intrepid world traveler, Christina Hurell has been exploring the globe on a quest to discover extraordinary scenic destinations and ancient cultures that offer both adventure and renewal. In her new memoir, Captivated: An Adventure in Faith, former high-fashion model and actress Christina Hurell takes readers on her harrowing journey through the harsh and isolated wilderness of the Sahara Desert. A story of adventure and resilience, faith and miracles, and ultimately of revelation and transformation, Captivated encourages readers to release their fear and live with strength, courage, and confidence. Christina Hurrell, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you, Rick. I'm thrilled to talk to you about my story.

Well, I am thrilled to have you here with me today on the podcast. I want to say, first of all, congratulations on your new book. I really enjoyed reading it. You have done so much with your life, and it really is hard to know where to begin. Uh, you have acted in commercials, you were in a stage production of The Great White Hope, you were on Saturday Night Live, You acted in the movie The Goodbye Girl, and I wouldn't even say those are the most exciting parts of your story. So let's go back and start with your early years. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about growing up in England and your family there.

Well, interesting story, interesting beginning for my life because my parents were wonderful people. They planted in us 5 children the essential seeds of good character and integrity, but My passions, my first passion really started, it was around the age of 7. I was walking in the woods with my parents and I felt the presence of Jesus. I mean, I felt him so strongly and I just felt like he was in me and that I would be his ambassador. Now this is amazing. I remember telling my grandmother about this and of course, you know, she was talking to us a lot about faith and giving us little crosses and Bibles and things. And so that was my first passion, and that has stayed with me for my whole life. My second passion was my father would ask us geography questions at the dinner table, and he would usually start off with looking around the world, look at the seas that border the continents, of the mountains, the rivers, the history of. And being the oldest daughter, you know, the first child, I wanted to have the right questions, the answers to the questions. And so I had a large Atlas World Map, map pinned to my bedroom wall. And in doing so, I imagined myself traveling through each region while taking photographs and learning of the culture and history. So, ah, you know, and then of course, my other passion, well, it was my athletic ability. I was always a pretty strong runner and certainly a hiker. And I represented my school and county in track and field. So, there were three parts of me that were sort of burning to sort of stretch out into life with, you know, curiosity to travel the world, being strong and courageous inside myself with the Lord, and also being fit and healthy. So that was the first part of me.

Very good, very good. That's a wonderful part for sure. So how did you first become a model then? And what was it about that opportunity that drew you to pursue a career in the field of modeling?

Well, it was a stretch because— but I was ready. You know, I actually inherited my mother's strong character. And with a house full of children, I felt it was time to hone my independent spirit. Well, and I grabbed an opportunity. I was visiting a cousin in London and we were walking through Soho together. We were like 17, I guess. And a man came out of a big building across the road and walked towards me and said, would you allow me to take your photograph? I looked at my cousin and I thought, why on earth would he do that? I didn't think I was at all photogenic. Why would he do that? Well, she had a pleasing smile. Whistle. So she stood at the door of the building and was about to blow on it if something happened. But anyway, he took my picture and lo and behold, I found out later that he was a well-known photographer. And in those days, there was a, you know, he actually, David Bailey is his name, was his name, is his name. I think he's still alive. And he was one of London's best well-known photographers. And later I received an offer from a London modeling agency to sign with them. So that's how it started.

Hmm.

Well, if I had a dime for every time somebody came up to me on the street and asked to take my picture— no, I'm just kidding. That's a total joke. That's amazing though. That seems like almost one of those stories that You know, you hear of somebody saying, "Oh, that's how it happens," but it doesn't seem like it really happens that way, but it really did happen to you that way. Somebody just came up and it was a famous photographer and said they wanted to take your picture. That's kind of an amazing story. Now, you describe yourself kind of as a country schoolgirl who had to make a transition to a London fashion model, and that must have taken some courage to kind of leave home, you know, in pursuit of a new career in that way and going off in a new adventure that way. Did it seem like something that took a lot of courage to do that?

Well, you know, to be honest, with a house full of children, I felt it was time to hone my independent spirit. And yes, it was a little bit of a gulp, but I carried my home around with me with the Lord. And I felt protected. I had to find myself a place to live in London, and that was a big deal. And of course, I met a lot of models at the time who introduced me to a life in London, which was another big story. But anyway, what was interesting was it took off. My career took off very quickly. And I was you know, traveling here and traveling there and to a far-flung destination. And if the wrap-up time was earlier than expected, I would follow through with my mini escape plan and scout about with my little Nikon. It was a little 35mm Nikon. And, you know, I focused on the landscapes and the people, the villages, the wildlife, historical sites, and And that was how I felt that I was feeding a deep hunger in my soul to explore. And that's kind of how that all began.

Yeah. So you were pursuing not just a career as a model, but it was really, as you refer to your Nikon, it was really being on the other side of the camera too that you were finding some real fulfillment. Being a photographer, which is really where another part of your story comes into play here. And, and by the way, there are some really interesting parts of your story that I want people to read the book Captivated to find out more about. But there's characters you meet along the way. Again, it sounds almost too, too amazing to be true, but there's a story about the way that you met Brigitte Bardot in the story, who let's just say she was an uninhibited person in the way that you met her in the story. But there's all these characters that you meet along the way, but it really is this character who— of the camera, it was almost like a character in your story too, that you kind of steal away with to take these pictures. And then while you're pursuing one of these temporary escapes from work, you ended up taking this trip traveling across the Sahara with a Bedouin tribe. Describe that to us. How did this all happen where you made this sort of temporary escape across the Sahara with a Bedouin tribe?

You know, I was invited by a platonic friend, a guy, a We loved dancing together and he said, would you travel with me to North Africa on a holiday with these two other friends? Well, that happened to be Brigitte Bardot and her husband at the time, Gunter Sachs. So anyway, we went off to, actually it was Tunisia and we were in a hotel on the cusp of the Sahara and then there were no other people in the hotel. The hotel manager invited a Bedouin tribe to dance for us. And while we were, you know, watching them dance, the Sheikh, he was a very young, handsome Sheikh, maybe 10, 15 years older than me at the time, because at the time I was only 20. He saw my camera and invited me the next day to talk to him in the garden. And he said, would you like to travel with my tribe and take pictures. Well, that was a big deal. You know, I was a little concerned about that. Thought about it for a while, prayed about it quite a bit, and then I called a girlfriend in Paris who is— her name was Bernadette. She's an attaché de presse person working for Dior, and she covered many of our modeling shoots. And I said, you know, what do you think about this? And she said, well, I think it will be wonderful if you do go with them, she said, and I will call National Geographic and to see if they will accept your pictures. Well, gosh, that was a huge boost of inspiration to go. Yeah. So that was that part. Yeah.

Wow. And what a dream. That seems amazing that you would be able to work for National Geographic. Which especially at that time, I mean, they're even now, they are the place for nature photography. And even now, I think they probably would be the name for movies about nature, but I can't imagine the honor it must have even been back then to think that you would be working for them and taking photographs. But even now, it must have seemed like a bit of a scary thing to do as well. Did you have some reservations about leaving the safety of the hotel and going off into the Sahara, not knowing where you were going?

I did. I did have reservations and I definitely prayed about it a lot. And actually, one other part, as I asked Bernadette, my friend in Paris, I said, look, can we have something that will sort of establish, you know, a protection for me? And she said, well, if I have my office in Paris, call the manager of the hotel and the Rope in the Sheikh who's invited you and tell them that they have to sign an agreement that you'll be protected if you go. Well, that certainly helped. So I knew it was— the thing is, I was inspired to celebrate my life for an uplifted purpose. And I felt that if I could really go with the Lord, protecting me. This would be a challenge, yes, but it would be a new chapter for me. So that was that part. Yeah.

Yeah. You must be an incredibly brave person. That's all I can think of, because I'm not sure many of us would have attempted this. So you were convinced to do this. They signed the contract, and you took off on this journey. And you accepted the Sheikh's invitation. And one part that I'd love for you to talk to us a little bit about is, is you had to disguise yourself on this journey. And I wonder if you could talk to us a bit about why really you needed to disguise yourself, and really you had to disguise your feminine— sorry, I knew I would trip over this word— disguise your femininity, and, and what it was like for you to disguise yourself in such a way to travel with with this tribe?

Oh gosh, well, the thing is, I didn't have any clothing that I could possibly wear on a camel for, you know, whatever, 2 or 3 days. And, you know, I'd taken nice sweet clothing to go on this trip. So I went into a sort of a, you know, a market near where we were staying. And I looked at all the clothing and it was only Bedouin clothing in there. And I pulled apart a few of the pieces that I thought would be fitting for me. I had no idea that they were men's clothing. It was the Bedouin clothing, the men's Bedouin clothing. And it was a jalaba, which was the long robe, sirwal, which are the pants, keffiyeh, which is the headdress, and a ghoul, which is a sort of a string, like it came around the head to keep the to keep the cloth on your head if the wind was blowing, the keffiyeh. So anyway, the guy that I hired to help me from the hotel, he was one of the help at the hotel and I hired him to come with me. He helped me go through it and helped me barter to get the right prices for this stuff. And that's what I was wearing. And it was a fuss to maintain, but it was, you know, not the first time I'd worn clothing to pull off an effective and convincing manner of disguise for safety on my travels. You know, usually I wear, and I still do, sort of safari clothing. And so I have a little granddaughter at this point, and she said to me, Nan, she said, you always look like a hunting lady. It was sort of like my, you know, beige safari clothing, which always works for me. And that's pretty much what I wore, and that with my hat, you know, and I always pull my hair back. And anyway, so I just felt this was all right, but it was a fuss to maintain, I have to tell you that. Yes.

Yeah. And now, why did you feel that it was important to keep maintaining the disguise, that you not necessarily be seen as a female or be seen as feminine whenever you were out there in the culture?

Well, the thing is, I learned that the men didn't have a lot of respect for women so much. I was in manager of the hotel told us these details and we were watching the dancing that night, the Bedouin dancing for us. And also the Sheikh who invited me was a very handsome fellow. He would actually look to me, he looks like a young Omar Sharif. And he had, I think he had an interest in me actually. And I felt like, you know, if I was to go traveling on this thing to take these pictures, I didn't want to encourage him in any way. So I wanted to keep myself sort of, you know, temper down my femininity and keep my head down. I wouldn't respond to any of his twinkly glances because he did show me that actually when he first invited me, I could tell that he had a sort of an interest in me. But That was a gulp because I felt the Lord would protect me, I would get away from there, I would only be with them 2 days or so and then I'd come back. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it turned out to be much more than that though as the journey went on. And I'm probably getting the story a little bit out of order for sure, but there's part of the story too I remember you telling when you were riding a camel at one point, and there was a point where something about the way you were riding the camel, and it had bruised up your legs so severely from your ankles all the way up your leg. And, and then the camel had become irritated, and then you found out why, because there was something about a certain sort of bug or something that had been infesting the blankets that the camel had been wearing. And it just sounded like such a hard thing to go through. And I know that during part of the journey you began kind of to question the wisdom of your trip. And I'm wondering why at some point you decided to keep going with the trip instead of turning around. What was it that made you kind of just stick with it and keep having the will to keep going even when things kept getting harder and harder on this journey?

Well, the thing is, they weren't interested in my camera. That was a big deal. And it was mostly the women. The men would sort of, you know, they were interested in measuring their beards and praying and having coffee and talking to each other. And so they would turn their backs to me, really. You know, I mean, they were curious in the beginning, but you know, they, anyway, but the women, they were put off by me being there. It was a really difficult thing. They weren't, I don't think they were sure about why I was there. And I knew that I was, you know, invading their privacy, their privacy. So they weren't allowing me to take pictures. And Tamir, who was the young Sheikh that invited me, He actually kept saying, look, wait a little longer, wait, they'll warm up to you. Don't worry, you can take pictures soon. And I thought, well, after all this, I'm there for all this, you know, all this time and effort, and I haven't really taken anything worthwhile. Yes, I tried to sneak one from the inside of my tent, but they weren't sharp enough for National Geographic to accept. So that's why I kept on trying to stay a little bit longer. Yes.

So it just, it just seemed like one hardship after another that you just kept encountering. And when you finally did reach your destination, you know, you encountered much more than, than you really ever expected once you got there. What, what were some of the things that happened to you when you got there that led up to the point where you finally felt like, okay, I've got to escape, you know, actually, because there was a time when you finally decided, okay, it is time to leave. I'm going to have to leave. Can you describe some of the things that led up to that point?

Right.

Well, the thing is, I was going and going and first of all, Tomeo kept saying, look, we're going to the next place, the next place. And then he said, we're going to see my father. He said, "I can tell you for sure, you can take any pictures you want there. That's for sure. It'll be available for you." Well, there was a lot of things up until then. I was forced to climb a palm tree. That was really, really hard. Oh my God.

That sounds amazingly hard. I can't imagine.

Yes, it was really hard. And, you know, he said, "Look, do it. Climb the palm tree and then they'll warm up to you." they'll accept you. Well, I did, I climbed this darn palm tree and of course scratched myself a lot. And then, but they still, you know, they warmed up a little bit, they were becoming a little bit nicer to me. But still they would turn away from my camera. And there was a point where we were on the last sort of leg towards Tamir's father's camp. When I was sitting there with this gorgeous, gorgeous evening, it was one of the evenings that I remember so well. You know, and I started to sing to the children because that was something I've done in the past. You are my sunshine. And I sang it to the young woman who was helping me a few times with making my tea and helping me with my tent. Her name is Nadja, very sweet young girl. And she brought her friends over and we were singing together around the campfire that had been made for me, you know, campfire in the night. And things started to warm up and I was sort of feeling like at least I could relax into the desert and it felt like a little bit like home at the time. And that was one point, but the other point was there were always some of them that didn't want me there, and they would let me know it. And they would come by with these mean-spirited looks and things like this. So there were definitely challenges. There were a few moments where I would feel like there were a couple of women who were very friendly. They would just smile at me. That was all they would do. But most of it was a challenge.

Yeah.

So anyway, the last encounter was going to this, wow, this camp of his father. Gosh, many more things to say about that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I encourage our listeners to read the book because it defies the imagination even when you read the story because the part about the father. And there are things that has to do with a snake bite. And just, it's, it really is, it goes into all kinds of things in the story. But probably the most incredible part of the story is your actual escape through the desert. And, and you took an incredible step, which I still can't hardly believe. And I mean, I do believe it, but it's incredible that you set out alone through the Sahara Desert with your hired servant and 2 camels with these very limited supplies to make your escape. You left behind your confiscated camera equipment. You didn't even have your camera anymore, which really was what you were going to have to have for the National Geographic assignment. You didn't have your compass. How in the world did you find the courage to face the desert? And, and by the time you got out of the desert, you were sick. Tell us a little bit about that, because it's, it's really amazing that you even made it out and are here with us today. That's just— the story is amazing, and I really encourage people to read it. But whatever you would like to tell us about it without spoiling too much of the story, we'd love to hear it.

I definitely would. Yes. I just like to say that when I arrived at the father's camp, I was told that there was a reason for me being there, that I was supposed to be saving the tribe. Now that was ridiculous, but I mean, I thought it was ridiculous, but to them there was a reason for me being there. So I was lured there and I keep thinking about, you know, afterwards how Jesus would He was lured into the desert and he had temptations. And Tamir, the Sheikh that invited me to be there, he kept trying to tempt me. And I realized afterwards, my gosh, but now I knew that I had to be covered. I had to be covered by my faith and the Lord would protect me. And I realized I had to escape. Now he tried everything. Tamir to try to keep me there. And wow, he actually, you know, my father had given me this gorgeous compass, which I valued so much because he passed away soon after he gave it to me. And then Tamir stole my, you know, camera and everything and all my film, everything that I had tried to the whole reason to be there, and he stole it. And I realized I had to get out of there. How did I get out of there without my compass? And then I realized how far away we were. I was into, way into the middle of the Sahara at that point. And I'd been lured into the Sahara, middle of the Sahara, and I had to get out with my camel. And the guard who I had hired, who kept falling asleep on the camel. He had no idea about anything. He was a sweet guy, but he, he, he— I couldn't rely on him to help steer me back. So the only thing I could rely upon was the Lord. The only thing I could rely upon was the stars. And off we went. We took off. So as soon as we took off, I started to feel sick. And it was the first day out there when I had this terrible fever. I was dizzy. I felt awful. I mean, I had— gosh, just terri— I was just— I had to get off the camel constantly and to go to the bathroom. And I was so, so dizzy. I could hardly move. And anyway, at one point I was laying in the Sahara. Now I knew the dangers that lurked behind every rock after I had experienced being in the Sahara. And you know, there's animals, there's snakes, there's biting, you know, things that could come out at you. And at that point I didn't care. I had to just lie there. I was so, so exhausted. And I went through all the things I could possibly have picked up. Was it a bite? Was it something that travelers could catch? Malaria? Typhoid? What did I have? And then I realized, and then after all that, this terrible thing happened. The water skins that we had were left on the on the ground and some of the water was percolating out. Anyway, there was a lot of problems and I thought, how far is it we have to go? Over a week back to the hotel. That's what decided it was about that long. I was struggling and the only, only thing I could rely upon is the Lord. And of course I didn't have my compass. I had to rely on this camel stick which could tell me the west and east shadows to keep going north. And I kept praying and praying that I would see the stars, the Big Dipper, who would point to the Northern Star. Well, mostly it was cloudy. And of course, there I was, you know, just hanging on the saddle, praying and praying. So that was when, that was when Honestly and truthfully, the point, if you could boil down the whole story into a room, and that is the point of my story of how I was protected, I really, really felt, no question about it, heard the voice of God, music in the Sahara. This is amazing because when the wind blows, it was like I could feel this music. And every time I did, I heard the voice of the Lord guiding me, "Don't worry, I will protect you. Don't worry, I will guide you." And so that was— I kept on going day after day after day, exhausted, with no water, hardly any water left. And that just bolstered my tenacity, my strength, my courage. My confidence to keep going. And this is the point of my story, really and truly. Trust in the Lord and he will be there with you. I mean, this has been a big one for me ever since, you know. So, yeah.

It really is an amazing story. And, you know, I just think of The way that you tell that part of your story now and the way that you tell it in your book, and I think of so many times that the Lord will speak to people who are suffering and the ways that so often we hear from the Lord in times of suffering that maybe we don't hear Him when things are going well, and maybe that we wouldn't hear from Him in times Maybe we're not listening in the same ways. I don't know how it is, but it seems like C.S. Lewis had a quote about the Lord whispering in the good moments, but he shouts in our pain. And there's something about that, I think, that seems to be pretty clear in your story, in the way that God was speaking. And you also have a beautiful way of putting it in your story about the beauty that you were able to see actually in the desert places that a lot of people maybe were not able to see. But as you had spent time there, that you were able to see the life that was brimming in the desert and in those places that seemed like there was a lot of death, but you are actually able to see a lot of life there and the way that things were able to survive and thrive. So it really is a powerful story, and It's neat to see the way that your faith in Christ has been guiding your life choices, the way that he guided you out of the desert. It really is almost this, almost this Old Testament type adventure story of being led out of the desert, you know, into the, into this new, you know, promised I don't want to say promised land, but it almost is this story of coming out of the desert into a new land. You know, it really is this kind of story in your life. So it's, it's a neat story to share, and it's just an amazing thing to read about. So I'm so glad that you took time to share. I do want to once again let all of our listeners know that the title of the book, it's called Captivated. An Adventure in Faith. It is written by my guest Christina Hurell. I do want to know, Christina, in these final moments that we have here together today on Voices in My Head, what would you like listeners to know as we just have a few moments here together today? You've done such a good job kind of summarizing your story, but what would you like them to know about you and, and what, where they can find out more about you and your book and some of the different things that you have going on. Because as we talked a little bit about beforehand, you've done so many different things in your life, and there's so many other things that you still have going on right now, whether it be with your safari adventures that you're running. I'd love for you just to even bring us up to date a little bit on what you have going on right now.

Oh, thank you. Well, after I came out of the desert and I went back into, you know, the different chapters of my life that have continued, of course, from acting to, you know, clothing design to architectural design to all this kind of thing. But now, now, now, now, with my company, it's called Spa Fari. Think of a health spa. Spa Fari. So spa, think of safari, fari. Spa Fari. It is an adventure travel business and I've been taking people around the world for many years. And I always tell them, you know, and I don't bang people over their heads with faith. It comes to them. A lot of people have said, what is it that you have? I just feel something about you that I really want I want to know more about. And there's been many, many places around the world where I've taken people hiking, you know, be it Africa, India, Bhutan, Bali, Lake Como, Italy, Southeast Asia, all through Southeast Asia, Peru. And there's been many places, and this is incredible, where I have been hiking. Of course, hiking is one of the core experiences because I really feel like we need to get our fitness level up, we need to be clean health-wise, we need to take a look at the big picture in our lives and put the Lord first. And I just say, look, have faith, open your heart, you have nothing to lose, nothing to lose in opening your heart and letting Christ in. Letting the Lord in. He will guide you, protect you, direct you, fill you with peace and help you. And, you know, and have your body be as healthy as it can because that's your earth suit to walk the earth with and have it be as healthy and as fit and as peaceful and as loving and as compassionate as you can have it be. And after so many days with me on my trips, I offer people my talk. And again, I'm very discerning about who wants to hear about the Lord. But honestly, over the years, so many people have opened their hearts and let Christ in. So many people, even my Jewish clients. I keep it because I've always said, you know, Jesus was born a Jewish person. He's a Jew. And I have many friends who are Jewish who have let, who just, you know, let God in. And it's God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit. And I just feel this is my purpose. And I am an ambassador that I hope we should all intend to be. This is our purpose to be on earth, to give people an incredible opportunity to embrace the empowering presence of the Lord. And you know, again, I wrote my story because I feel it's a parallel between between a walk in the wilderness and today, where history is being made on the world scene and through all the struggles and the people are going through, you don't have to have those. Just allow him in, allow him in, and every day you'll have the peace and you'll be protected and guided and loved. So that's my story. You know, I feel I feel very honored to be able to tell it, and I do stand strong in my faith that God's Son, Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah, came on earth to change the world with his messages of mercy, love, and forgiveness, to inspire and fortify believers to be faithful followers through the significance of his teachings, salvation, and eternal life. Life. So that's it.

Yeah. Well, Christina, thank you so much. I so appreciate you sharing not only your book but also being able to share your story today. Thank you for your message at the end of the show today. And I want all of our listeners to know that on our website for Voices in My Head podcast, we're going to have a all of Christina's links where you can find out more about her book and her website and even, even more about her spa fahri that she was able to tell us about at the end of the show today. She has so many great things, and we'll even have a link to her website at christinahurell.com. And Christina, it has been a real joy to have a visit with you today. And as I say to my guests each week, thank you for being one of the voices in my head.

This week.

Thank you so much. And I reach out to anybody that would love— I would love to talk to anyone. Or if you have any— and if you would like to talk to me, if you have anything you'd like to say, please, you know, reach out. I would be honored to hear from anyone. And certainly if anybody loves my story, I'd be very honored if they would give me a testimony on On Amazon website. Yes, because I think we're all here to, you know, to encourage people.

And for sure.

Thank you. This has been such an incredible pleasure for me.

Oh, well, for me too. And Christina, thank you so much.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. ITunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.