Episode 414: Guest Erskin

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Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here with this again for what I know is going to be another great conversation. My guest today on Voices in My Head is Erskine Anavitarte, or probably better known by his artist name, which is simply Erskine. Erskine is a Nashville-based singer-songwriter who has garnered a loyal fan base around the world with his unique blend of pop, jazz, R&B, and hip-hop styles. Following his 2014 EP Let's Ride. Erskine released Look Up in 2015, which featured the watershed single "Black and White," a thought-provoking, action-inspiring narrative on race and religion in America. Love Moves, Erskine's sixth recording, bowed in 2019. Recently, Erskine has partnered with Nick Ripken Ministries for the release of his latest music video, "Is He Worth It?" Spotlighting the plight of believers in persecution, the video was directed by Jonathan Barker and was produced by Luke Harvey and Friends, featuring scenes from the 2016 NRM and Lifeway Films documentary, "The Insanity of God." Based on the best-selling title of the same name by Nick Ripken, a veteran missionary and leading expert on believers in persecution, the film powerfully depicts accounts of Christians around the world serving a living Christ, even when it costs them everything. Everything. Co-penning the track with Nick Ripken, Laura Allen, and Matt Papa, Erskine hopes both the song and music video will challenge Christians who have not faced persecution to share the gospel boldly, standing in solidarity with those suffering because of their faith. Erskine has stopped by the podcast for a visit today, and I'm so glad he has. Erskine and Avatarte, welcome to Voices in My Head.

What is up? Thank you so much for having me today. I'm excited to be here.

Well, I am so glad to have you with me today on the Voices in My Head podcast. You know, "Is He Worth It?" is really a powerful song, and the music video really helps to reinforce the message behind the song. I'm hoping that this morning, as we have our conversation, that you can take us behind the scenes a bit and tell us where the inspiration for the song first came from. Who specifically did you have in mind When you were thinking about those people who are being persecuted for their faith when you made this video—

Yeah, well, let me go backwards so that I can go forward. The first thing I want to say is that the team that put all this together has just been a tremendous support and encouragement throughout the entire process. As you well know, on a lot of these songs and videos, and especially this one in particular, the origin of the song, and then when the song is actually recorded, and when you actually have a video there's a period of time and a length of time between the germination of an idea and then visually seeing it on the screen. So I've been so thankful to the entire team throughout the entire process of just encouraging this project to go forward, and we have what we have today. Now, to answer your question, I want to just hearken back to some conversations that I had with the author of the book The Insanity of God, who was principally featured in the film The Insanity of God, and his name is Nick Ripken, okay, who during a songwriter's retreat in Richmond, Virginia, took the time to share some of the personal stories and interactions that he had had with believers in some of the most persecuted places on the face of the earth and really gave us a window into what is going on in the lives and the minds and the hearts and the bodies of these believers all throughout the world. And, you know, after getting those firsthand experiences and those firsthand accounts, we were all encouraged to write songs and be the voice of those who could not speak because of persecution and would not be allowed to say some of the things that we were able to say in our freedom. And that's really where the song came from and the inspiration behind the words that were penned, as the song is titled, "Is He Worth It?" Mm-hmm.

Wow. Well, now I'd love to know a little bit more about Nick Ripken, and it really sounds like he had a real influence upon you, and it sounds like that there was a real collaborative aspect to this song and the retreat where you were at. And I actually was not too long ago, I had some time to spend with Matt Papa myself. It was really neat to be able to see his name on this song as well. I guess it was at the Getty Sing Conference about 2 years ago when I got to meet him and he was on this podcast. And then I ran into him again at Cedarville University last year, right before the pandemic happened, and we hung out a little bit. So I love hearing about some of the collaborative aspects of what goes into a song like this, but I'd love to hear more. It sounds like Nick Ripken, who you've been talking about, sounds like he really has such a heart to share about some of the things that have been happening around the world to Christians. What are some of the things that he impressed upon you and some of the other writers about what Christians are enduring about around the world that just really stood out to you? What are some of the takeaways that that maybe when you left that conference that just really laid heavy upon your heart that you said, "I need to tell some people about this." Sure.

You know, I was actually on a songwriter's retreat with a group of songwriters in Africa, and during that trip they mentioned the book The Insanity of God, and I'd never heard of it before, and so upon returning to the United States I read the book, and in reading the book I was just absolutely crushed that here are these people who have given— and I won't do a spoiler for the book— but here are these people who have given so much for the sake of the gospel And their lives have just gone through utter chaos and then traveled around the world to interview other believers almost to bring about some healing in their own life, but to hear time after time these brothers and sisters who are facing intense persecution respond by saying, "Well, Jesus is worth it. Jesus is worth what it is that we're going through." And that became a healing balm to the Ripkens and some of their tragedy. In life. And then as Nick was sharing some of these firsthand accounts and firsthand stories, he was really challenging us to say, you know, we have the freedom in our country and the ability to pen these songs and the God-given skill to be able to write and craft these songs, and let's use that to the glory of God. But he put another spin on it that, you know, it was a massive takeaway from that project, and it's just the aspect of the fact that as believers we have freedom and we have the ability, we have the charge. But in time after time, in the places that he went, he found out that believers who were in prison, believers who were beaten, they would sing songs as their way of connecting with God. When scriptures were taken away from them, when they were beaten, Bibles were disallowed, Bibles were burned, he would find these believers singing their heart songs to the Lord connecting with the Lord in worship in some of the most persecuted places in the world. He said, "Songwriters, we have a responsibility to craft these songs and to pen these songs for a generation and a group of people who may not be able to physically be with us, but they are singing these songs and hearing these words and allowing the Holy Spirit to move through these words in their lives." Man, powerful.

Wow, that is That's kind of a breathtaking thought to think about, that songs that are being crafted are songs that they're literally singing as they're in the depths of persecution and sometimes maybe even on the way to their own deaths. That's really a challenging thought to think about. I've often thought about and have talked about with other writers on this program before about people when they are on their deathbeds, that it's always interesting to think about those who have been believers for a long time, that oftentimes it'll be songs that have been meaningful to them that they will choose to sing as they're dying. And I'm hearing you say that again about the persecuted church around the world. I'm curious, did Nick, or have you, from even believers that you've talked about, are there any songs songs that you can recall that maybe believers around the world— are there any specific songs that you remember them specifically singing? And maybe you can't remember any specific songs, but I'm always curious, are there any songs that have been on their lips?

Like, are there—

there's always certain songs it seems like that God seems to have his hand upon too that seem to be the ones that churches just latch on to. For some reason or other.

Yeah, so what is the persecuted playlist and top 10? You know what we really began to find out about that is that, especially traveling overseas and doing songwriters conferences, is that really those songs that come in their heart language and some of the cultural ethos are some of those songs that they are able to hang on to. And I know that we've done a tremendous job in missions around the world and, you know, the Amazing Grace and songs like that seem to endure in every generation, but there's a scene in the book and also in the movie of Dmitri, who is a prisoner, and I don't want to do a spoiler here, but one of the things that helps him to overcome this time of imprisonment is to sing his heart song. So they're in Russian, and songs that are in other languages and other cultural feel and flair to them seems to be songs that, you know, in heaven's playlist, those are high-ranking songs, not necessarily the top 40, uh, songs that we have here in America. And so that's, that's been a neat thing to recognize as well, is that, you know, we are beholden to a generation here in the United States. And hey, you know, as the Lord would use these songs around the world, um, but who knows generations later, should the Lord tarry, who will be singing the songs that we are crafting and penning now. And so That brings the songwriter to another level of importance and perspective in what it is that they do.

Yeah, wow. I just wrote that down. I've never thought about that before. The persecuted playlist. That's a very interesting thing. And I've heard stories too, and I can't remember who it was that was saying this, but I've heard stories of places of like being in the Middle East where the persecuted churches had to whisper their songs in caves of singing songs to the Lord and couldn't even sing them at the top of their lungs. They had to whisper them as they were worshiping in caves. And I just thought, man, what an amazing heart for God that they would go to such extremes to be able to meet together. Powerful. Well, I love what you've done with the song. I love your team and the way that they were able to collaborate together on Is He Worth It? And I wonder if you're familiar that there's a line in your song that kept— and I wish I would have written it down because I know that I'm gonna get the quote wrong— but there's a quote from the missionary Jim Elliot who was martyred that says, I believe it's, "A man is no fool to give up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose." It's something like that. That's very similar to a line in your song. It was also about, "Is he worth it?" which I know must have been on your hearts whenever you were writing this song. And the imagery It's just so powerful that's melded with the film and what you've put in the song together. And you've really shown in a very real way, I think, what is happening around the world. And it's something so beyond what we have experienced, I think, in our land. Things that we have seen in the last decade, I guess, in the news oftentimes, we've seen scenes where Christians have been persecuted and martyred, lined up on beaches where their throats have been cut, and they have thanked their persecutors for giving them a chance to witness for the Lord and say, "Thank you that I had a chance to be able to share and show you what the love of Christ is," just before they are martyred. And, you know, your video, I think, gives a chance to show some insight into that. And I am just curious, what kind of response have you been hearing and maybe some of the team that worked on the video, have you been getting some response from people that maybe have been seeing in a new light what the church around the world has been experiencing? Because I think we are getting a different perspective through your video than what we think persecution is in our part of the world than what they are experiencing in other parts.

Yeah, so I am really excited about that. I am actually down in Texas right now and I was at a men's Bible study this morning and to my surprise the pastor said, hey, we're going to begin the Bible study this morning by putting this video on. And we actually have Erskine, who's here in the audience.

Oh wow.

That was kind of a surprise to me. And so there's a lot of guys who are just like, where can I get that song? Where can I get that song? How can I buy it? How can I buy it? And I'm thinking, it's on YouTube, just watch it. The response has been pretty instant and overwhelming. I will say the cool thing about this is that I think for the most part We tend to live our lives and our persecuted brothers and sisters are out of sight, out of mind. I mean, our major media outlets are not reporting what's going on, and you really have to do a little bit of research to figure out on the World Watch List, like Open Doors and some of the places like that, some of the most persecuted places in the world. And, you know, there are thousands of believers who are persecuted every year and killed as a result of their faith in Christ. And that's largely out of our mind in the United States. We have our own concerns and our own things, and things that are that graphic and that startling to us, we generally tend to put out of our mind. But I love the fact that this song brings that to the forefront again, kind of like you harkened to, and is letting people see this window into, yeah, no, this is not way back then. This is currently, right now. We should be praying for our brothers and sisters. And the cool thing about it, our brothers and sisters in persecution, is they're not whining about it. Like you were talking about, you know, I've seen the images of the believers who are lined up on the beach and they're beheaded for their faith. They're not whining about it. You know, here in America, it seems like, you know, the Democrats are going to pass a law and like every Christian is whining about it. Every place that I go, they're like so concerned that California passed a law or that you can't do this in New York or that Captain America is going to be gay. And I'm just like, stop it. Nick Ripken said to me, we had— I had him on my show last week, is he said it's time for Christians in America to stop whining and start witnessing. And I was like, I'm gonna write that one down. Yeah, that's where they— and so if this video helps us with that, to get, uh, more eternal, divine, spiritual perspective, then praise be to God.

Wow, man. Stop whining and start witnessing. That, that is powerful thought. And, and, you know, as you, as you say that too, there's so much involved in that too that we've maybe not considered. We've maybe not considered about how so much of like the refugee crisis that, you know, so many Christians who are escaping persecution, like those are refugees that are trying so often to come to us. And so often like the rhetoric is, you know, well, those must be terrorists that are coming. Well, so often they're like our brothers and sisters in Christ that are coming to us as well. We need as Christians to figure out like how do we as believers do all we can in the name of Jesus to love our brothers and sisters well, you know, and in the name of Jesus reach out to those who are the least of us who in many places are being persecuted. And I love the way that you are enabling us through something like a music video which is just a few minutes of our time to be able to stop and enable us to have some conversation. Something like where you are this morning at a men's Bible study together, you know, and it really is a good way for us to stop and be able to have some conversations about some difficult things, and I love that. And, you know, I'm glad that you brought up your show as well, because you've been doing a great program as well that is online and not just—

I'm trying to do something.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm trucking along like all startups.

And not just audio, like mine is a podcast, but you actually have video content, and, and it's, it's doing pretty well. Tell us a little bit about that while I have you on the line. I'd love to point people to your show as well.

Well, yeah, the best thing about my show is that I have a censorship button and I can just censor myself, and that's necessary from time to time because I get pretty fired up. Like, I'm not one of those— I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and so I think a lot of things that my brothers and sisters whom I love in Christ are saying a lot of goofy things out there. So that's one thing that kind of gets my heckles up. But then I also, I studied journalism. I have a communications degree from East Tennessee State University, and I studied journalism, and I was graded very poorly for doing some of the exact same things that I see people in mainstream media doing. And that really gets on my nerves, like the way that stories are written today and the way bad sloppy journalism is done today and very biased and opinionated journalism takes place today. And so I sometimes have to censor myself. I try to deal with topics that are in the news. I'm Black, so I get a chance to say things that most white people could not say and get away with. Um, and I just, I, I, I have a lot of fun doing that. I feel like there's a lot of music artists who for whatever reason, maybe it's because they want people to like them, just they don't speak out very strongly in public about things. Maybe, maybe they don't need to speak out. Maybe that's the case. I mean, they don't have anything to say. I just feel like I have so much to say and so much to offer, and there's so many perspectives that I can give on things that I've taken the time to just say, man, not only do I really enjoy this, but I feel like there's a gap that is in our society right now of people who are really boldly speaking out on behalf of the persecuted church, on behalf of understanding the church's responsibility in the generation that we live in. Man, it's so uncomfortable to be a Christian who thinks everybody that's a non-believer should be doing Christian things. Like, how are you going to make that one work? Yeah, we got to recognize believers are non-believers, and they're not going to be doing any of the things that scripture talks about. So go out and win them to Christ. Yeah, so I fired up just talking about it. It's on, we're streaming it now on Facebook Live, also YouTube, have a YouTube channel. And now we just introduced the Twitch audience to the show, and it airs on Wednesdays and Thursdays. And then I do a weekend broadcast called The Way Forward with another pastor in Illinois, and it's been a lot of fun.

That's great. And, and so if they just look up The Way Forward then, uh, is, and is that the best way for them to find it on, on Twitch or YouTube and, and, uh, and Facebook? Is that Or is it best for them to go on to your Facebook page, or what's the easiest way for them to find it?

Yeah, just have them go on my Facebook page, check that out, or go to YouTube and they can subscribe to my channel, Erskine Music. Or on the weekends, they can find it through The Way Forward on YouTube.

Great. I'm going to make sure that we put links to all those on this podcast page as well, because I want to make sure everyone can easily just just with a click, uh, from this page find it as well too, because you're putting some great content out there for people to be able to find. So I really appreciate that.

Well, you know what, so I don't understand why I haven't been canceled yet. I'm still waiting for him to come and find me. I know I'm not popular enough because nobody wants to cancel.

Everybody's getting— everybody's getting canceled for something, it seems like.

So, you know, I can't manage to get You know, I don't know what it is and how it's like where you're at, but, um, there's just certain things that I feel like Black people, and especially Black men, can get away with saying that others cannot get away with saying in our culture, even if they know it's true and they want to say it. It's just like, no, we cannot say that in the current atmosphere that we have. And so I'll just take my privilege and I will say some of those things And there's some really goofy things out there. There's some really important things that are out there. And I try to be, you know, as genuine as possible and as biblical and as scriptural as possible. And so we'll see how long it takes before I get canceled.

Well, I hope that you don't, honestly. And I feel like you're saying some very important things. And I feel like all of us need to do— speaking for myself personally, I need to do more listening than I do to speaking. And so I'm trying to do more listening these days, and that's a hard thing to do as someone who posts podcasts and records music, and I do a lot of talking and a lot of making noise. But as one who's trying to do more listening, I really feel like you're someone that's worth listening to, definitely. Well, you know what, speaking of listening to you and the time that we do have left here today. I know that you, you're a person who has sort of a lot of different interests and a lot of different ministries going on that are all part of the same. And you're not just an artist, but you're also, you're an adoption advocate, you're a diversity spokesman, and they all feel like sort of different sides of the same coin and, and the same ministry.

Really.

And I'm just curious because really 2020 and now 2021, I mean, these, these have been difficult days in many different ways. I'm curious especially about maybe how adoption advocacy— how has this been in, in sort of 2020 and 2021? I'm wondering how things have been down kind of that road with the way, just the way things have been in the world, I know that everything has kind of been up in the air for a lot of people. Do you know, have people been kind of adopting more? Have people been adopting less? Have people been looking into that? Or just kind of what's been your perspective on that over the last year?

Yeah, so I wasn't expecting that question, but thank you for asking it.

Sure.

I think there's going to be a massive backlash from this year because with all of the closures of things and restructuring of society in many regards, having to quarantine a lot more, those child protective cases have not been reported and the due diligence of being able to go into homes and to rescue these kids out of homes has not been as prominent this year. And I think there's going to be a massive backlash. There's many, many, many abuse cases that have not received their due justice in the society that we're in now. Because, you know, those parents that are abusing kids, they are now having access to those kids all the time and more prominently, and without those intermediaries of the interface of teachers and other workers without— in society being able to see them on a more regular basis to be able to report some of these things Rick Lee James, I fear that this has been a bleak and terrible year in terms of the whole child protective industry. Now, personally speaking, my, my wife and I, we've actually transferred agencies and are recertifying so that we can level up to medically fragile infants. And so we're getting more certifications and more training. And certainly sometime perhaps in the next 3 or 4 months, we should be recertified, and then we'll see what happens from there. But I fear, unfortunately, that this has been a terrible and bleak year with so many things happening behind closed doors that have not been able to be reported. I'm not very optimistic that in the coming days, weeks, and months we will find an encouraging report about what has happened in 2020.

Hmm.

Well, I thank you for, for updating us on that because I I wondered that, and it helps us if nothing else, it helps us to kind of know how to pray a little bit more and helps us to kind of know maybe how to do some research on that matter too, because I've wondered that and I've kind of feared for that as well, just not knowing. I have some friends and even one of our pastors at our church is a police officer as well, and he's told us that, you know, in homes, a lot of— there's been a lot more abuse and there's been a lot more cases that we don't know about with families and especially foster situations and things that have happened. And so that's been a little kind of a concern of mine as well. And so for those people who are listening today, that's— I know we have a lot of people who have that concern as well. And so it gives us a way to pray for sure.

And it gives Sure, but you know, I hesitate to say this, but I think I need to say this, is that it also gives perhaps an opportunity to respond.

Yeah.

For those who are in foster care, we recognize that, you know, the harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few. You know, this is something you feel like the Lord is leading you into, or even if you feel like it's something the Lord is not leading you into, maybe you should look at it and see if the Lord might be leading you, because I think as Christians we have a responsibility to the vulnerable In our society, in our locale, you know, James would tell us, "Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world." And so we have to respond in that way as believers. And I'm not saying everybody should respond that way, but there should be, as we see the needs, a tangible, visible response from Christians in this area.

Well, thank you for saying that. It needs to be said. And the hard words, but true words, and we need to hear it more. So thank you so much for saying that. And there are places in each of our cities, in each of our towns where we can look into there. There's agencies that work with each of our churches. I know.

Sure.

That help us with making that happen for sure. So thank you for helping us with that. And I know that in the coming days, especially as things open up, there's going to be more and more need for that. And hopefully our churches are going to be on the front lines of being a help and being an aide to the children in our cities. So, well, you know what, this has been such a great pleasure to be able to talk to you today, Erskine. I hope we can do it again in the future. I want to point everybody to your ministry, and we're going to have links to your website. And, uh, we're going to close the show today by playing your new song, Is He Worth It, at the end of our podcast here today. And again, on our website here at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com and on our voicesinmyhead.substack.com, we're going to have links to all of the ministries that you have going on. I'm grateful for you, and I'm proud of you, and I want to thank you for being being one of the voices in my head this week.

Well, thank you so much for having me on the show, and I just want to answer the question by saying Jesus is worth it.

Busted right into a rifle barrel. It all comes down to this. Is he worth it? This is no dream. It's reality. They stole my love and my dignity. It all comes down to this. Is he worth it? This is where Faith lives or dies. This is where hope comes alive. Pay the price, pay the price. His love demands a sacrifice. I'll give what I can't keep to gain what I can lose. Count the cost, count the cost. It's a privilege to bear the cross. No matter what I face, my heart is certain that he's worth it. Oh, this is no play. It's no Sunday school. Just give up now. Don't be a fool. They They jeered and laughed and said, "Is he worth it?" This is no lie, they stole my child. They'd give her back if I'd just deny. The road seems long ahead. Is he worth it? Be the prize, be the prize. 'Cause love demands a sacrifice. I don't give what I can't keep to gain what I can lose. Count the cost, count the cost. It's a privilege to bear the cross. No matter what I face, my heart is certain. Life is going to ask you to make a choice. Give it all away— Nothing's better than Jesus. When the heavens open up and we see his face, standing there, you're gonna say he was worth every pain. Pay the price. Love demands a sacrifice. I'll give what I can't keep to gain what I can lose. Count the cost, count the cost. It's a privilege to bear the cross. No matter what I face, my heart is certain. Yeah, no matter what I face, My heart is certain that he's worth it. Oh yeah, he's worth it. Oh.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.