Episode 435 - Linda Znachko - He Knows Your Name - Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast)

Hello friends, your host Rick Lee James here. I wanted to give you a heads up that I am in the process of migrating the podcast to a new feed on rickleejames.substack.com where you will be able to find all my podcasts in one place. You can still subscribe and listen through all the places where you normally listen, but the podcast will be showing up in a new feed. So if you want to continue getting the latest episodes, the best thing to do is to go to rickleejames.substack.com .com and subscribe using your email address. And from there, you can be notified every time a new episode is released, and you will also be given a link to listen through whatever platform you prefer. So don't wait, go to rickleejames.substack.com and subscribe today so you don't miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to Please let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. And by the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay. Where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro. So sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm grateful that you're here with us again for another great conversation this week. My guest this week is Linda Zanacco. She is the founder of He Knows Your Name Ministries, which seeks to honor every child with a name in life and dignity and honor in death. Zanacco is a popular speaker at conferences and retreats and has been interviewed numerous times since the life-changing events of 2009, when she learned of the death of a precious baby boy whose body was found in a dumpster. She lives in Indianapolis, Indiana with her family, and she has quite a story to tell. And I'm looking forward to our visit today. Linda Zanacco, thank you for stopping by Voices in my head today.

Rick, thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here, and I love the title of your podcast. I think that's wonderful.

Thank you. I very much appreciate that. And, uh, I, I get a lot of compliments actually on the name. I, I feel pretty good about picking that years ago. It served me pretty well and lets me have a lot of good topics and conversations. I don't feel like I'm hemmed in on any one thing for sure.

Well, it prompts curiosity.

Sure.

Yeah.

Well, let's start today. Speaking of curiosity, I know a lot of our guests, even just with the bio that I read today about you, that was, that was really very brief considering how much of a story you have to share. I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself. And, and one thing that I find very interesting and exciting that we were talking about just before we started recording today, um, is you're a part of a church plant and you live in Indianapolis, Indiana, which is an area fairly close to where I live. But I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe include some of the exciting news about the church plant that you're also involved with.

Sure. Well, I'm from the Chicago area, and my husband and I were high school sweethearts, which is so great. And after we were married a year, we moved here to Indianapolis. And then we've had our 4 children here that we all— we raised here, and they're now all adults. And my— I have one son, Andrew. And he's a prize to me for a lot of reasons, but especially because he's given me these sweet grandchildren that I got to spend the morning with. So those 3 little children live here in town and we get to do life together, and that's really wonderful. But like you said, one of the most exciting and surprising things that we've done together is plant this church. Andrew was with the Antioch Church Movement in Waco, Texas, that Jimmy Seibert and his wife Laura founded. And when Andrew went to Baylor, he became involved there in the college ministry. And then when he graduated, he just really felt God leading him to church planting. And that is a church planting movement. So it was just ideal for him because he went through the discipleship school and the church planting school there. And he had eyes to go abroad. He thought maybe they would go to Dubai or someplace really cool like that. And when the Lord called him back to Indianapolis, He kind of shook his head and threw his hands up and said, "That's not what I thought was going to happen at all." And so after he married his sweet wife Heather from Texas, they moved back here with one child and they planted the church here. And it's right here in the Castleton area, which is where you said you're familiar with. We're right down the street from a Costco. So what's so great is that we have a great sign out in front and people say to us, when they come in the door is, "Well, I was on my way to Costco and I saw Antioch Church and I was just curious and the Lord drew me in." So we've been church planting and rooting now after 5 years here, and it has been one of the greatest joys of our life. My husband Steve and I love having our pastor be our son, our son be our pastor, and really being led by him and just being so incredibly moved. To watch his, you know, God is developing a shepherd's heart and a leadership heart in him that is just growing, and he's so on fire. It's wonderful.

Well, that's terrific. Well, thank you for catching us up. That actually tells us a lot about your family just in, in that little amount about the church planting and getting to hear about your grandchildren and things like that today, and just shares a little bit of your heart in kind of a nutshell today. I, I want to talk a little bit about your book and some of your story because so much of it is told there. Your ministry is called He Knows Your Name Ministries. And that's the same title of your book. So I want everybody listening to actually know that title so that they can look for it. But also the website, heknowsyourname.org, is a place that they will want to check out so they can find out more about this. I wonder if we could start with your story. And I'm sorry to start with a painful place, but it seems like the logical place to begin with the place place that you tell with the story of losing your mother to terminal cancer. And I wonder if we could just kind of start there, because I know it is— while I'm sure it's a difficult thing to talk about, it really is a profound part of your story.

It really is. I actually just had my birthday this week and was sitting at dinner with my sister, and she said, you know, gosh, what would mom say? If she saw all that was birthed after she died. And I do attribute a lot of He Knows Your Name to the legacy of my mom. I think there's no way we can go through a huge milestone in our lives like I did losing my mom and not have it impact the choices I made moving forward in life. You know, she was a very healthy woman at 72 years old, and she, she ate organic before it was even cool to do that. And she knew what kale was decades ago before anyone knew what kale was, you know. And it was just so unlikely that she would be diagnosed with lung cancer. My dad had had a massive heart attack at 65 years old and was struggling with congestive heart failure. And honestly, I would have thought my dad would have gone first, you know. I just didn't see this coming at all. None of us did. And my mom had a mother and sisters that smoked ferociously for probably 60 years of their life and she never touched a cigarette. And so, this was just such a shock. But from diagnosis to death, she was 18 months for her, but she did go through some treatment and battled hard. And, you know, the Lord just gave us the sweetest 18 months. I am the middle child of 7 and we are all about 17 months apart. So, as a mom, she was very busy. And, you know, that was at the time when I was raised with 1 car. We walked to school. We came home for lunch. She was a very busy domestic mom. And yet I did not get very much time with her alone ever growing up. And really, that last 18 months of her life were for me as her daughter, the sweetest I ever had with her. I had the most time alone with her. She spiritually came alive. In 1992, when my brother died, she went from having a faith and going to the Catholic Church to really building a relationship with Jesus and finding him deeply in his word. And she and I related spiritually like never in our lives at the end of her life. And so it was a treasure. So it's kind of this bittersweet thing for me to recall because it was really one of the most significant times of my life as a daughter with her as my mother in that time. And so losing her was very hard. But you're right, it's what— it gave me eyes to see things that I'd never seen before. Wow.

And, and there's this other very painful part of your journey. I, I really— when people say, I can't imagine, um, that phrase almost seems trite when we say that because, well, nobody would imagine it. Why would they think that? But the story continues with not only you losing your mother in this very difficult way, um, but then your story you, your daughter has a sickness that she's dealing with that you just have trouble finding anyone that seems to be able to treat her effectively. And as you're dealing with it, at some point, you actually have to leave her at a, at a care facility for a while. And just hearing that, as a parent myself, and my heart aches, thinking about that and thinking about what that must have done to you. And then finding out that at the same time, you're, you're dealing with health problems with your father, too, it seems like, if I'm getting the timeline correctly, at the same time. So you're, you're dealing with a lot. And I wonder if maybe you could kind of share that part of the story as well, because I, I think a lot of this is playing into maybe the compassion that is filling your heart for what is about to come with your ministry down the road.

Yeah, wow. I just feel like you just kind of lifted a veil and really vulnerable right now, um, which is okay. Um, I, I would say what's interesting about my ministry, kind of face value, is that being raised in the Oprah culture, you know, I watched that show at 4 o'clock every day and I watched Oprah interview people and ask them about their life experience.. And so often that was what qualified them and equipped them to kind of have a story or have credibility or authority to talk about certain things. And really when I found myself like, you know, fumbling into a ministry that God was forming right in front of me here, it was this infant loss or baby loss ministry. And I don't have experience with pregnancy loss or infant loss. And so it didn't make sense to me. But of course I know the economy of God is upside down. And I thought, somehow, someway, he has equipped me and qualified me to do this work. And he's anointed me and called me for such a time as this, to be a messenger in my generation of the gospel, to carry light and life and bring justice to where there's been so much darkness. And that has been pretty clear to me these last 11 years. But you also, you're knocking on the door of a real secret place of my heart. And that is even harder than my mom and the losing of my mom and going through her cancer. Um, it is the fact that my daughter— I've never said this publicly, but she's battled an eating disorder since she was 14 years old. And we have been battling that with her for 15 years. And it's not going well, even still today. You know, so even though even right now, my ministry is on the brink of a national publicity tour with a story that I'm working on, and I— all these things are happening, I find myself again, at rock bottom emotionally as a mom, trying to save the life of my daughter, who's now 29. So it's not a baby, but she's my baby.

Yeah.

And this whole time, you know, I've been up and down. At death's door several times with her. And, you know, just not really knowing at times, like, it's her story now. She's an adult. It's her story. How do I protect her? How do I keep this at bay so that we aren't hounded about this? I am not a good poster child for eating disorder recovery because we haven't recovered in all these years. And it's you know, it's a very, very painful physical and mental and spiritual disorder. And I have been— had to fight for hope every day for 15 years. And I realized how dangerous it is to hope when things look so gloomy most of the time. So I do, you're right. I mean, the compassion born in me for others who are at the grave, or knocking at the door of the grave, or in pain, or, you know, have all different kinds of things. You know, at the end of the day, God was a God of compassion. He has a heart for his children, and he has allowed me to come in and sit close to him and know what it feels like to really ache over a child.

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that, and, and I'm, I'm sorry if I went too, too deep, but I, I didn't mean to uncover too much of, um And I can even cut some of that out if I needed to. I apologize.

Um, you do not need to apologize to me. I, I've been praying the whole time you've been talking, and I know, really, I feel like you, uh, you know, it's funny, no one else asks me about that part of my book, and it's in there. I didn't name it, I didn't name what her disorder was, but everyone goes to the mom's story or the babies and all of that. And the interesting thing is that I originally wrote my book as a Christian living book. And I really didn't even know what that was when I did it. And until an editor from Zondervan called me. And he said, you know, your manuscript's not written right for the story. And I was like, what do you mean? He said, it's— you've written it like a Christian living book. And I said, like, so what? What do you mean? And he said, that's like, let me tell you something. And you need to write this book as a memoir. Let me show you. Yeah, memoir says, let me show you something, come with me. And he said, that's what your story is. And so we rewrote it. Yeah, in that vein, I did that and I changed the lens. I think the faith journey of my story was what really took root. And what I didn't expect was that my book was going to become a second ministry. And that second ministry is saying yes to God, not just he knows your name stories, but like, how does Linda Zanocco say yes to God and hear God and believe in him and have faith every day when it feels hopeless and hard? And I'm standing at the grave with other people where it's hopeless and hard. And so I, I appreciate your sensitivity. And I chose to say that to you today.

So, well, thank— I want to thank you for being willing to talk with us about that. And I think when, as you enter into those difficult places, you're helping me and my listeners to also enter into those difficult places. And I know that some people listening today may also be dealing with those things. So thank you for helping us in those times. Scripture is full of those messy and difficult and hurting things. I was just reading again this morning King David's family and what a messed up family he had. And the way that that toward the end of his life, it ended with so much grief. And yet, his heart was so given to God. And I think that too often pop Christianity wants to pull us away from the real parts of our story to make us be kind of happy clappy Christians all the time. And where we can actually find real growth and real healing is when we can bear who we are. So I appreciate you sharing that with us today. And, and the part of your story, and the reason I mentioned it before, is go into the next part. And you even alluded to it right now as a mother. There's, there's a part that you share in, in the book about with your daughter, for instance, where you had to leave her at one of the treatment facilities. And to leave your child in that way, it just must be more painful. And you can imagine, school started again this week for my son who is in third grade. And every, every year when school starts. Just yesterday was the first day of school, and I can only relate from the standpoint of, well, I dropped him off again. And every year it's like that first time, like, oh, I don't want to leave him, you know. I wish I could, I wish I could walk those halls with him. And, and Jesus, I, I pray that I know you're walking those halls in those places that I can't go with him in those places. And so in a very small way As parents, we feel those things. Um, as we move into this, this next part of the story that really gets into the, the even bigger and broader part of He Knows Your Name Ministries, um, you have all this that's been thrown at you up to this part of your story that you've shared. You've had the loss of parents, you've had these things with children that you're dealing with, the very real parts, very difficult parts of life. And I, I believe it was on the news that you first encountered this news story of a baby, that the body of, of a baby was found in a dumpster near where you lived, if I'm not mistaken, if I recall the story correctly. And, um, God laid something on your heart in that moment. And I wonder if you could share that part of the story with us, because there is something very precious and profound and holy, I think, that took place in your life that is very life-giving even in the midst of that death.

Right. So I was sitting at the computer looking at my screen just like I'm doing right now. Yeah. And the news story came across it, you know, breaking news, and it interrupted what I was looking at. And it said, "Baby Doe found in a dumpster wearing only a diaper." And it wasn't just the language of the reporter, reporting it, but it was also the visual I was seeing. And the visual was of a parking lot downtown, you know, urban with the big dumpster, sirens, police cars flying into the parking lot, the construction, the caution tape across the scene showing that it was, you know, a crime scene, people milling, you know, and the forensic specialists climbing in a dumpster. And, you know, I just had never seen anything like that before.. And I was very compelled and just frozen in front of my computer watching it. And then I just felt these questions rise in me, like, what happens to a baby found in a dumpster like that? What does our city do? What does our county do? You know, I have no idea. And I felt the Lord's prompting, like, call the— call the journalist who wrote the article you're reading alongside watching this and ask him, you know, your questions. And honestly, in light of my life at the time where, yes, my mom had just died 6 months before, I had just sent my son back to Texas for school, my daughter had just gotten married. I was a pretty tired mom, honestly was not looking for anything to do. I needed to just grieve and be home and take care of my 2 other girls that were home. And I, I just was like, but I can make a phone call. I can ask a question. Like, God is so kind. You know, he just gives us what we can handle doing in the moment. And honestly, if he would have given me revelation for all of He Knows Your Name, I would have run screaming into the night and said no, you know. So I was like, I knew his gentleness is I'm going to help you say yes to me. And I did. I made that phone call. And the journalist said to me, I can't answer your question. You have to call the coroner. And even that, I thought, this is creepy. Who calls the coroner? I don't want to call the coroner. I don't know the coroner. Thankfully, I don't know the coroner. And I was like, well, I called him, I'll call her. I'll call her. So I called and I asked my question, what happens to a baby like this in our state when they're found in a dumpster? And they, they just said, well, there's a long criminal investigation that needs to happen. And if no one is found at the end of the criminal investigation, uh, the baby would be put in a mass grave. And I said, what? What do you mean a mass grave? And she said, "You know, a pauper's grave." I'm like, "No, I don't know. We live in the most resourced country in the world. We live in the 21st century. Why do we still have pauper's graves?" And as I sat there, as I even sit here now and repeat this to you, I feel the injustice hit my body. Like, now that I know this, I have to do something about this. Like, now I know what to do. You know, I didn't just— it wasn't just about asking the question and getting an answer. This was now a revelation to me that there was something going on that I had no idea of anything about, but I needed to proceed. And I said, will you put my name on the case? I want to take care of this baby. This baby must have a name. And I all of a sudden got the image of my mother's funeral. Like, I gave her eulogy, we chose the songs, we handpicked all the flowers, you know, like All of it was honor and dignity, celebrating her. We wanted everyone we knew who knew her to be there with us. And here's this, a baby alone with no name in a diaper in a dumpster. It couldn't be more opposite of what we gave my mom. And I just— it was clear and simple. This is a child of God, just like your mother is. This baby deserves everything your mom deserved. And I was like, I don't care what it's going to take, but I'm giving this baby all that I gave my mom.

Wow, that's amazing. And it seems like over the course of this happening, you said you didn't know the coroner at first, but with the calls that happened and with this occurring, you developed a relationship with, with those at the coroner's office. And, and it, and it seemed like there was a part of the story too that was kind of amazing, that they were actually— I don't remember if it was the coroner's or maybe the police that were connected, or the investigators, but ultimately the, the mother of the baby was found. And, and even her story, um, it just goes to show you that maybe you shouldn't judge everyone's you know, story when you first hear it, because even her story, it begs some compassion too at the same time. And I wonder if you could share some of that as well.

Well, that criminal investigation took 13 months, and even though the coroner told me on the phone that very first day that she would put my name on the case, I didn't— it's not like I didn't believe her. They're very busy people down there, and I'm gonna just keep calling them so that they really know I need it, you know. So I did. I called them every Friday for 13 months. And like you said, I started developing a relationship and I started getting to know the ladies and their names and who answered the phone. And we would start talking and I'd ask them about their day or their weekend or whatever. And, you know, next thing I know, the receptionist is telling me she's just been diagnosed with breast cancer. And so I pray with her on the phone and, you know, we're just— relationships are building. And that's what God was doing. He just started putting a face and a name on the ministry of the people involved. And so while that criminal investigation was going on, God was building something. And 3 months into it, they said to me, well, I was just gonna call you. And I was like, you never call me. Why were you gonna call me this morning? And they said, because we have another baby. And I just was like, I'm like, what? I haven't even seen that on the news. What do you mean another baby? And they said, well, we just wondered if since your organization is going to take care of this other baby, would your organization take care of this baby that we have? This is a 5-month-old baby that died from SIDS at his grandma's house, and the family is abandoning him here, and we need someone to take care of him in death. And of course, I was so choked up and my head was spinning and I just said, I have to call you back. And I pulled my car over because I was in the car talking and I sat in the parking lot and wept for this baby. And the questions and wonderings were flying around my head. But more than that was just like pleading, like, oh God, what are you doing? What organization are they talking about? It's just me. And he comforted me immediately and said, you know, It's, he knows your name, and it's you and me, and like, we're doing this together. And I was just comforted immediately that he was with me and that he named this ministry and he revealed it to me like that. And, and it's like, it was just like this, of course I'll take care of this baby. Why would I take care of one and not another? And really, it's like that, like, right? If we are going to bring light to one situation, of course we'll bring light to another situation. If I'm going to give for— like, years and years ago I gave for— to Haiti after the earthquake there. And yesterday when I was doing another interview, Compassion was talking about the money they need in Haiti because of the current earthquake. And I thought, of course I'm gonna give more money to Haiti. Like, I gave it before, I'm gonna give it again. And it's just that The way God multiplies in our hearts and our spirits, his love for his children just made perfect sense. Yeah. And yeah, and so I just, I just said yes to God, like right there in my car. That was my yes to the ministry of He Knows Your Name and the furthering of the kingdom by taking care of his children.

Wow. That's, that's really neat. And I'm so glad that you answered that call. There, there's something to not only just feeling the sense that the Spirit is speaking to you, but then actually putting movement to it and doing something about it that not everybody does. And the reward is actually in being obedient. And, and I'm grateful for your obedience in that. I wonder if in the time that we have left— there's, there's so much more to the story, but I'd love for you to share too about what is called the, the Safe Haven Baby Box, because this is a very special thing too that you've been working with that I think a lot of our listeners probably have not heard about. And it was new to me as well, and I think it's something that is, that is really very exciting to hear about. And I wonder if you could just share with us more about that.

Sure, I would love to. Um, it's really cool because every year I ask God for a word over my year. And in 2015, when I asked him for a word, he gave me the word collaboration. And I kind of shook my head at him like, that's not a very spiritual word. Why are you giving me collaboration? I don't even know if I like that word. I don't get it. And the Lord just so sweetly said to me like, oh daughter, think of the Trinity. Each has a role and responsibility, and together we get a lot done. And I was like, oh yeah. So God made that— gave that to me like on January 1st. Well, the middle of January of 2015, I had a funeral for a baby that was found deceased and abandoned at a park here in Indianapolis. And when the breaking news story again hit the TV screen and I saw them hold up a blue sweatshirt and said this was what the baby was wrapped in, and this sweatshirt says Vincennes University Aviation Department. Does anyone know anything about any of this that maybe they would be able to help connect us with the mom or dad? And I saw that sweatshirt and I thought, aviation department, a baby girl, her name is Amelia. I can't wait to claim her and name her Amelia.

Yeah.

So of course I called the coroner's office and said, you know, I wanna claim this baby. And they, they told me right away, that there would not be a very long criminal investigation at all. And that's because the condition the baby was in did not leave the investigators much to work with for that. I can't say much more about that.

Sure.

Um, so I claimed her, gave her her funeral. And when I asked the Lord, um, you know, what, what her legacy would be after realizing her name means defender— and of course I know from the Book Proverbs, because I study the names of God, that the name Defender is capitalized in the book of Proverbs. So I knew that was a character attribute of God. So when it's the meaning of this baby's name, I thought, there's anointing on her to defend something. What's she going to defend? And the Lord clearly spoke to my heart and said the Safe Haven Law. So when her funeral happened here in Indianapolis, this little baby that was lost and then found and then named and celebrated there was standing room only in the chapel at Washington Park East Cemetery for her. The procession for her funeral was out of the cemetery, and I was on the news 33 times between Thursday and Sunday, all prime time, every station. And this little baby that didn't have a name and was lost, like, all of a sudden everyone in the city of Indianapolis knew who she was. Yeah. And I talked about the Safe Haven Law all weekend long on the news. And I just kept thinking, I'm teaching and educating and raising awareness about the Safe Haven Law through this baby's funeral. And I thought that was it, to be honest with you. And then at the funeral, I met a woman named Monica Kelsey, and she told me all about the Safe Haven Baby Box organization she was trying to start and change legislation for. And she said, would you come to the Senate and give testimony about a real baby that's been abandoned, because you are dealing with the problem and I'm dealing with the solution. So I did that. I went and gave claim to the fact that these abandoned babies are real. I showed them her footprint and I said, she has a name. And there are abandoned babies that I think are everywhere and we don't even find them all. And so that bill passed, became legislation, and our Safe Haven law in Indiana was enhanced with the Safe Haven Baby Box, which is a box that offers anonymous safe surrender. And it's a unit that's put in the wall of a hospital or mainly a fire station. And a mom can walk up and open the door, put her baby in a climate-controlled, alarm-activating bassinet, close the door, and anonymously walk away. And the baby is retrieved by a first responder from the inside of the building. And we have had 12 babies placed in these boxes. They have been all healthy, receiving medical care in under 3 minutes, and they've all— 12 of them have been adopted in 30 days. So I love to say that the Safe Haven Baby Box is an adoption option, and it's saving lives, and it's working. And I think the anonymous portion of it is really key. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Wow, that's, uh, you're making me teary, um, just hearing that, and I appreciate you sharing about it today. That's so good.

And I want to say the cool thing is that Monica Kelsey decided to put my baby Amelia's footprint on the logo of the Safe Haven Baby Box. Wow. That's my collaborative joint effort with them. And so whenever we put a box in the state of Indiana, which we now have over 65 in Indiana, I go give testimony to this baby's life and say that that footprint, that mother sees that footprint when she uses her own feet to walk up to that box and give her baby a healthy future with a forever family. And it's so powerful. But also being a neighbor of mine, you're in Ohio. Ohio has a couple boxes and Ohio has passed legislation. And so has Arizona and Florida, New Mexico. And so it is becoming a national movement and it's spreading through this country. And that's one of the things I'm always raising awareness is to say call your legislators and make sure they enhance your law in your state.

That is terrific news, and I'm so glad to hear about that, and I'm gonna look more into it for our state as well. And I honestly, I live a block away from a fire station, and our church actually does quite a bit to support that fire station. And so that's good to know that maybe our church even could maybe try to be be a part of something like that. And so I'm, I'm really excited to hear, um, this is, this is good news.

And that's what it takes. It takes community support and people gathering together. These boxes cost about $15,000. They're all privately funded.

Okay.

So the private sector is doing an amazing job with enhancing the Safe Haven Law and protecting and providing, you know, anonymous surrender for moms in crisis in communities. And it's working. And the other thing amazing is the hotline associated with Safe Haven Baby Box. The hotline is saving babies and helping at-risk moms by providing unbelievable resources to them when they're in crisis and they don't want— they're not alone. We don't want any mom to ever feel alone.

Yeah, and that makes such a difference. $15,000, 12 babies saved so far that we know about. That's, that's amazing. That's a very low cost when you think about it. That's awesome. That's really great. I have so appreciated getting to know you a little bit more today, Linda. This has been wonderful. And, and I want to encourage everybody listening to the podcast today one more time to go to your website at heknowsyourname.org. There's a wonderful book called He Knows Your Name that Linda has written. There's really— we've only scratched the surface of the story, I think, today. And there's only so much that we could cover on a podcast interview. But I think that people can find so much more about you, about the Baby Box, about your ministry and the good things that you have done. If you just allow me on a personal note to say thank you, I am a father who has— my wife and I, we have lost 4 children to miscarriage. And so over the years for us, life is very very precious, especially of babies. And so when we hear about people like you who have a big heart, um, especially for little ones who we know that God holds dear, and we know in our hearts— it was very important for us to name our babies even though we never got to meet them. Um, the names mean so much. And when I heard that part of your ministry, that it was giving them names and giving them dignity, and so much a part for us of our healing and, and help for us has been talking about the names of our children together and talking about someday when we're going to get to, to be with little Joshua and the other ones, you know, that we haven't met yet on this side of eternity, but we know we're held in the arms of our, our Heavenly Father. And so, um, just on a personal note, thank you. This— your ministry means a lot to me, um, even though we've never met. And so I, I want to thank you for that today.

And, uh, thank you just for your personal testimony because That's, that is really my heartbeat is that people understand that, you know, miscarriage and stillborn loss, any kind of infant loss, naming a baby takes it from being an event like a miscarriage, a stillbirth, to Joshua. Yeah. And you give a name, you're giving value, and that image bearer is being called out, and purpose and legacy can be lived in honor And oh, I just love your example of that. Thank you for saying that, because that's exactly what I encourage people to do when they have lost so that they can start their healing.

Sure. Well, thank you so much for your ministry. One more time, I'm going to say the website, heknowsyourname.org. My guest today has been Linda Zanocco. And I just want to spell that quickly so everyone knows how to spell the last name. I think everyone knows how to spell Linda. But Zanaco is spelled Z-N-A-C-H-K-O. I encourage everyone to look up your ministry. Linda, thank you so much for being one of the Voices in My Head this week. Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD me, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.