Episode 436 - Stephen McNeill - The Art of Repair - Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast)

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to Please let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. And by the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay. Where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro. So sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here with us again this week for what I know is going to be a great conversation. Our old friend Stephen McNeil is back with us again. He's a singer-songwriter, a musician. He's a music teacher. He lives just outside of Memphis, Tennessee. He has a great new album coming out in October called The Art of Repair, and it's a great one to hear. I'm going to start today by playing the opening track called Come to Me, and then we're going to have a conversation about this new album. You're really going to enjoy it. So let's start here today and then we're going to dive in deeper and hear more about this new album, The Art of Repair. So here he is, Stephen McNeil, with the opening track. "Come to Me" from his new album, The Art of Repair.

Wearied by the changes and the chances of this world, I come to you for rest, for comfort that is only found in your eternal changelessness. Laden with the burden of my guilt and my regret, I come to you for peace. For only you can calm the storm that rages on my troubled seas. And you say, come to me, come to me. I'll put your fears to flight. Come to me. Come to me, come to me. My yoke is easy, my burden is light. Toiling in the desert sun of my anxiety, I come to quench my thirst. The living water you supply is all that overwhelms this curse. And you say, come to me, come to me. I'll put your fears to flight. Come to me, come to me. My yoke is easy, my burden is light. Come to me, come to me, my yoke is easy, my burden is light.

And that was the track Come to Me from my guest today on Voices in My Head, Stephen McNeil. It's from his new album The Art of Repair, which is available in October of 2021. The Art of Repair is a collection of stories and prayers about picking up the pieces after a season of loss. It comes on the heels of two albums of hymns and congregational songs, Centerpiece Songs of Gospel Community in 2017 and Centerpiece Volume 2: Shelter and Shade in 2019. Stephen McNeil, welcome back to Voices in My Head.

Great to see you again, Rick. Glad to be here.

Well, it's always good to be able to talk to you, and I've been enjoying the tracks that I've gotten to hear so far, and I'm glad to be able to have a sneak peek of it in advance. They're, they're really good songs. The writing is great. The, the musicianship is great as always, and I'm glad to be able to have a chance to, to talk to you about the new album, about songwriting, and, and maybe even a, a book that I am in the middle of right now and that you read recently that's about songwriting, um, although my reading is dedicated a lot lot more to the master's program I'm in right now. So my fun reading gets dedicated to, uh, whenever I have a chance anymore at this point. But it's so great to have you back on the show. What have you been up to since, since we last talked, other than recording this new album, which I know has probably taken a lot of your time?

Yeah, you know, doing that. I've got 4 kids, and, um, 2 of them are twin 4-year-olds, and an adventure for sure the last 4 years. And as of late, they're in a pretty difficult phase, we'll say. So, you know, a lot of my time is, uh, you know, taken up with family. Uh, like I said, I'm a music teacher, so I've been teaching students. And, uh, you know, uh, the, the pandemic has brought all kinds of new difficulties on that whole thing. And so that's been fun to juggle. Uh, fun with quotes around it. And, uh You know, that just that sort of thing. And then, and then writing and recording and, you know, trying to make some, some plans for creative ideas I've got. And, you know, it's kind of been a long process and just working through all those, those things.

Yeah, well, it has certainly been an interesting season. And, you know, one of the hardest things I think over this past year, I mean, since the end of 2019 going into 2020 You know, first we had, you know, the virus that kind of, as musicians, it knocked us all off our feet. You know, all of a sudden we can't tour anymore, we can't do concerts, we can't— I mean, promoting music is like relegated online. So we had to figure out new things. I've done a couple online shows, but it's just not the same, you know. It's— and, and then I feel really bad for, you know, I've had a couple friends on this podcast that do like stand-up comedy. And you think it's hard as a musician doing online stuff, imagine being a stand-up comic and, you know, doing it to just dead sound, you know, at the end. So, and then we have, you know, you think you're coming out of it and then all of a sudden, you know, the pandemic sweeps back in again, you know, in a whole new way with this Delta variant and all the things that go with that. And it just feels like, you know, uh, just once again the feet are kind of swept out from underneath you again. So it feels like I feel like this album, which deals a lot with grief and personal conflicts and putting the pieces back together again, you know, in some ways it comes at a very timely moment, I think. And I feel like there's a lot of us that feel like we're in the middle of repairing things. And maybe a lot of us feel like, well, we were just starting to repair and then it got knocked down again and now we're having to re-repair all over again, especially when it comes— It's actually the title of my next record is The Art of Re-Repair. The Art of Rick Lee James. Perfect. This is it. We're gonna do— and then after that, it'll be The Art of Re-Re-Repairing again for the next one.

An ongoing series.

That's right, for sure. But I know this has been one that's been in the works for a while, so tell us kind of about the, the heart behind this one, because I know you've put a lot of your heart and soul, uh, into this record, and there's a real theme that, that's running through it. So just talk to us a little about it.

Sure, yeah, you know, so the last two albums were congregational songs that I wrote and co-wrote with some of my friends for my church, and it was— I'd like for that to continue to be an ongoing thing as we continue to write and kind of focus on our church. But these songs, along the way, I would also have songs that were not really congregational more personal, and they started to kind of pile up a little bit. And then over the course of the last year and a half or so, it's been like you said, a lot of things to deal with because the pandemic I think brought a lot of confusion and grief as far as the illness goes, but then also the relational aspects of it. I think it strained a lot of people's relationships, and it's, you know, when we're isolated and we're only communicating by You know, social media and whatever, like that adds a whole nother dynamic to things. And I think it's been a confusing time for a lot of people. And so, several of the songs on the record kind of came about through that and through dealing with broken things and, you know, coming to the point where we have a choice to kind of walk away from relationships or to stick around and fight it out. I think that it's kind of one of the most tangible expressions of the gospel when Christians stick around and don't give up. You know, there are some things that only the Lord will be able to fix on that day when he comes back, but a lot of it we can try, and he calls us to try. And so a lot of that started to come about, especially kind of the beginning of this year, and So as I started to write those songs, I started to look at the pile of songs that I had and to see the threads that were running through those songs. And so I kind of got a group of those together that all seemed to kind of fit generally with the same theme in one way or another. And that's kind of how the album came about. I felt like it was— I had a couple of— I've got two big projects that I'm working on. One of them was this record, and there's another one that's more related to my teaching. And, uh, I decided to go ahead and, and focus on getting this one done this year because, um, I felt like we needed— I feel like I needed it this year. And, uh, so I think that's, that's been the case with everybody that's heard it as well.

So yeah, well, let's, let's dive in a little bit more about that because I, I feel like that idea of dealing with those kind of, uh, strained relationships and things is one that a lot of people are dealing with right now. Um, I I don't want to say, like, I, I feel like we suffer from this thing where everybody thinks that their generation and the time that they live in, like, it's the worst now that it's ever been. But the fact is, it's— this is the worst we've ever seen it, you know? Like, it's probably been worse before, but this is just the worst we've seen, you know, um, at these times. But I do think that throughout, um, the last year or so, maybe the last few years The best way I've described to people is I've started to see people's true colors, and I've been disappointed many times. You know, the people that I thought I knew who they were have, have shown themselves to be who they really are, you know. And, and whether that be in their reactions and, um, you know, and I'll give you maybe an example of this, and this will, this will be really close to home, and, and we can be as general or specific as we want to be about this, but I know your album, you know, kind of deals with issues like this. And this is what I find helpful, I guess, as an artist, because I write about these things. I try to anyway. Not giving up on these hard relationships is hard when you have people that don't think the way you do and don't feel the way you do. It's one thing to say that, um, it's a whole other thing when you feel like the people in your life, um, are actually going a complete opposite direction of what you feel like the gospel, uh, is teaching. And they're the people in your lives that claim they are also Christians, you know. Um, I wonder if you've encountered that as well. Um, and, and I'll— the example that I guess I'll give is a group in our church that I'm a part of and people who have differing opinions on almost everything. And it can be everything from politics to whether or not to get the vaccine, to whether to wear masks, to, you know, just you name it, you know, how to raise your kids, whatnot. But we meet together every week in this Sunday school class, you know, and sometimes it gets heated and sometimes it gets uncomfortable, but we keep doing it, you know. And, and we try to always end on this note of, but I love you and I want to be with you, and I don't— I don't want you to be— um, I don't want you to think that I don't— um, I don't want you to think that I'm breaking fellowship with you because I disagree with you on this, you know, type thing. I wonder if those are the kind of things that you're singing about, you know?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, family, friends, uh, church, the, the— I think, I think everybody's kind of experiencing this. I don't, I don't think you and I are unique. It feels that way though, especially, you know, when we were kind of more in lockdown completely, you know, like you kind of feel like you're the only one feeling the way that you're feeling, uh, and it's confusing thing. But yeah, you know, like, you look back at— lately I've been looking back at Scripture and thinking about the conflicts that, like, the disciples, the apostles had, you know, uh, both before Jesus died and after. And like, they had some big things, and they were very, very different people, uh, and, and I don't know that they would have had much in common without Jesus, right? Like, and, and that's the thing that's always encouraged me about the church, is that, like, I'll look around the room and I'll think I would have no reason to be in a room with most of these people if not for Jesus. And, and so because of the gospel and because he's brought us together, well, now I find like, well, I've got the reason. Okay, we got the same boss, so we're gonna be in the same room together. But it's more than that, you know, like you develop relationships with people and, and we start to see how differing perspectives and different talents and different different gifts, and it's— that's rich, it's beautiful. That's like the church has always been that way, but it has been a struggle. And there are— I think there are moments like this in history where the cracks kind of get brought to the surface a little more, and we have to deal with them. And that's been really hard. It's been really hard for me and for my family and for a lot of people that I know. Um, and that's kind of the tension that this album kind of exists in. Um, I don't know if you've ever heard of, uh, there's a Japanese art form called kintsugi. Um, it's— and so what it was is, um, or what it is, especially like in ancient Japan, uh, there were these like sacred, uh, tea tea cups and bowls and things that they would use for these tea ceremonies that meant a lot in their culture. And if one of them broke, instead of tossing in the trash, because they, they saw it as a sacred object, um, there would be artisans who would take the broken pieces of the pottery and they would get like a lacquer and put gold flakes in it, like actual gold in it, and, and they would mend the pottery and then the cup with this gold lacquer so that one, it's put back together again and it's useful again, but two, it doesn't hide the cracks, right? It's not like a vanishing sort of glue or whatever. Like, it illuminates the cracks so that they're there and you see like, oh wow, this thing was broken and it's been made whole. And that's one of the things I've been thinking about over the past year as well, that like, I think that's a pretty beautiful picture of the gospel and a beautiful picture of who we are as Christians, but also a picture the church. And, um, you know, there are some things that can't be repaired. Uh, you can't— like, there's, there's no hope, you know. Like, it's just, it is what it is. Uh, but a lot of times, um, you can put something back together again, and the scars show the, the triumph of, of overcoming. And, um, and I think that's been— that, that has proven true in my relationships with, with, with people, the ones that were strained, you know, there's still— nobody has backed down and been like, you know what, I was completely wrong. You're completely right.

Yeah.

That, you know, like, that's, that's not a Disney movie. So that's the sort of tension and the issues are still there. But I think that we've learned to, to love each other through it. And, and so we have these kind of scars that I think have made our relationship stronger. And the, you know, you still get the, you know, as with actual scars, you still get phantom pain sometimes. And, and, and you, you think back on the trauma of it all and how painful it was emotionally. But there's at least a possibility because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that something beautiful can be made of times of hardship and grief. And loss in relationships. I think it's also true of grief when you're grieving a loss of a loved one or relationship or whatever, that there could be healing brought from it. And there's a lot of beauty in that. It's a lot easier to talk about on the other end of it than it is to go through it.

But yeah, yeah, that's true. And you know, sometimes you have to look for commonalities in the weirdest places too, because sometimes, sometimes it feels like there's nothing left, uh, to hold on to. Like you said, sometimes it feels like things are just broken beyond repair, right? I struggle with that sometimes, uh, when it comes relationally. And yet I realize sometimes that might, that might be true for certain people, and there, there has to be loving boundaries, you know, that have to be put up. And sometimes maybe the only thing you can hold on to is like All right, well, you like Cherry Pop-Tarts, I like Cherry Pop-Tarts, and we're going to leave it at that. That's the only thing we can hold on to today, you know. True. I don't know why I said that because I don't even like Cherry Pop-Tarts, but, um, you know, that might be, you know, that might be, that might be the one thread, you know, that you can kind of hold on to in some instances. Like, there's, there's still a thread of humanity there that, that, you know, you can still find if you look hard enough. Um, And you know, Mr. Rogers used to be, you know, used to say there's practically nobody you couldn't learn to love once you've heard their story. And yet I feel like from time to time, you know, we do encounter those people. It's like, I've heard their story and now I'm still struggling, you know, in those cases. And yet that's partially the power of the gospel that binds us together too, that it won't let us go without at least attempting, you know, these repairs and at least attempting to come back continue to invite and continue to be tenacious with our invitation to not let go of those relationships. So, so that's good. I, I love the, the whole idea of, of the album and, and behind seeking to repair things, because we're so quick to tear things down and we're so quick to be, um, people that are full of grievance and full of just breaking things and, um, and wanting to tear down systems and tear down people and And I love that your, your whole approach to this album is repair and seeing what we can do to mend. And that, that's such an essential thing that we as people of faith can, can hold on to. Let's talk a little bit about kind of the, the making of this, and then I do want to talk a little bit about that Jeff Tweedy book. I'm, I've barely skimmed the surface, but I know it was kind of influential on you recently, and, and I, I I know we both respect him as an artist and a writer. Um, but you know, I know that you, uh, you had said that you recorded a lot of the album live, uh, in a room together to kind of get this really human feel. And it was— had, you know, kind of been inspired by the, the Laurel Canyon scene of, of the '70s with like James Taylor and Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne and people like that. So, uh, tell me about kind of, you know, recording in, in that kind of live mode. And because I don't think you've done quite like that in the past. And in fact, you know, even your last few albums, it's been more, you know, rock and roll type, you know, straight on, four on the floor type music. And this one does have more of a communal feel.

Yeah, uh, that was— it's always been a thing that I've wanted to try, um, as an independent musician. And you know this, that like, um, it's much more cost effective to do as many things on your own as possible, right? Uh, and so the last couple of records my brother Andrew is a great drummer, and so we've gone into the studio and kind of cut the bass and drums together to kind of get a foundation and then layered everything on top of that on my own in my studio here. And, um, but this one I wanted to— I always felt like I was lacking a little bit just the interaction that you get when people are in a room together. Um, you know, like, I love Zoom so because you can have conversations like we're having right now, but like if we were in the same room together, kind of that three-dimensional, like our conversation would take on a different posture, a different tone. And the same is true musically. And so I got together with some musicians that I really trust. So my brother Andrew played drums again. There's a bass player in Memphis named Carl Casperson who's just a wonderful guy, great player. So he played upright bass and he played electric bass on a couple songs. And then my friend John Gaines, he is the drummer in So and Tether. We're in So and Tether together. We're the rhythm section. But for this record, I played guitar and he played piano. Oh, he can play just about everything. And so we went to Young Avenue Sound in Memphis. Another friend of mine named Calvin Lauber, who's mixed the— he mixed the Centerpiece records, a great engineer and musician. And so we cut it live. We cut 8 songs in one day. Wow, which is insane. My hope was that we could get like 5, you know, like maybe we'll have time to do 5, and we got 8. So we cut, we cut, you know, most of the music there, and then I was able to kind of do the vocals and, you know, overdubs here and there on my own. And it was just such fun to do, and, and all the things I was hoping for and interacting with people together at the same time and music, it all happened. And, you know, it became something I never would have expected and had that kind of, uh, human, human feel that you hear a lot of those, you know, James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, uh, recordings. And that it kind of got that warmth that I was hoping for. So it was a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

Well, it's, it's got a neat, um, neat's not the right word. It, the, the whole feel of the album, as I was saying before, it's just got such a different sound than, than I've anything I've heard you do before. And the beautiful kind of like melody lines you, you do on the guitar and the finger picking, and it's, it's just, it's great. Like the acoustic work and then the stories that you tell. And I want to wait until the end to talk about one specific kind of story song, which is Come to Me, which we'll get into that because we're going to close with that song too. But it really is a lot of good like storytelling music on the album, and that really comes through, and it fits well with, with the music that you have on there. And, um, I, I just feel like what you did, the, the whole album, it just feels very intentional how it all came together. Um, and I think you know what I mean when I say that, because there are certain albums that's like, well, you have a song here and you have a song there, and finally you put it all together and there's an album. But it really feels like you you, um, took the time to intentionally, like, thematically put everything together, um, and make it kind of flow with, with what I'm hearing on this.

Yeah, well, I, you know, it started with, um, you know, I had a batch of songs. I had probably, I don't know, I want to say maybe 16 or 17 songs to choose from when I was gonna make the record. But like I said, the last the last few that I wrote kind of the beginning of this year kind of became the, I guess, like the four corners. And it's like, okay, what's gonna fit inside of this room, you know, that this house that I'm building? And so once you kind of have that perspective, you can kind of start to pick the common themes. And so I picked more of the story songs. There are a couple songs on the album that are really old that have been around for a long long time that are a little more personal, a little more story-oriented. And so I thought, oh, this is a home for that song, and this is a home for that song. And then it also kind of gave me perspective, like, okay, I need a song that says this. You know, I've got all these perspectives, I need a song that says this. So I wrote a few more just to kind of make sure that I was covering all the bases that I wanted. Once I got the idea of what the album was going to be, I wrote a few more just kind of make sure I covered the bases and included included the ones that needed to be there. And so I feel pretty good about that. More than any album I've done before, this feels like a unit. The other ones, I think, had unifying factors to them. This one, I felt like, was the most unified musically and lyrically. And so I'm proud of that, you know. Yeah. I worked hard on it. And I'm really grateful for the experience. And it's been a lot of fun and got to do— try a lot of things I'd never tried before. And that's been a lot of fun.

That's good. Well, you should be proud of it. It's something to be proud of for sure. And your hard work shows. It's come through and I'm proud of you and the work that you've done here. So I'm glad to get to showcase some of it here on the show. Well, you know, there's a book and we've been talking about it. I've referred to it a couple of times and I know you've read it. I started reading it. I got it from the library and I haven't gotten very far far into it, but I've already really enjoyed it. And so I'm just going to talk about it. How to Write One Song by Jeff Tweedy, you know, of the band Wilco and several solo projects and different things. He writes about songwriting in this book, and just even the way that he kind of starts out talking about identity in, in that book, he starts out just even as— I think he's I think he's like, I don't know, 8 years old or something in the book when he talks about kind of forming his identity around like, I hadn't even written a song yet, but in my mind, I was a songwriter, you know. I don't know if you remember that part of the book, but he just says, you know, um, he said, I, I had it ingrained in me that that was what I was going to be and who I was going to be, um, my identity, you know, it was, it was going to be shaped around that thing. So I started telling people, you know, from like a very early age, I'm I'm a songwriter, you know, and I couldn't even play him a song yet that I'd written, but that's— that was who I was going to be. And he just kind of hung on to that, you know, throughout his life. And it just got me thinking a little bit about, you know, these— these, um, how important identity is and the things that we, um, not only the identity that we tell ourselves who we are, but I think, um, what we tell each other, you know, about ourselves. And, yeah, and, um, And again, I'm going to refer to Fred Rogers one more time because I just love Fred Rogers. But, you know, Fred Rogers would talk about like, you know, there are people that, that talk us into talking, you know, at a very young age. And there are people who smile us into smiling and they sing us into singing and they love us into loving. And, and he doesn't specifically say that in this book, but I think it, it also works with like songwriting too. Like there are people who with their music, they invest that into us whether we're listening to that music. But there was obviously something about him, you know, in his young life he latched on to songwriters and there was something about that identity that really spoke to him. And so somehow songwriters wrote him into songwriting, you know, if that, if that makes any sense. Like, yeah, it does.

And I really like with this, with this book, I feel like that's what he's trying to do. Like, yeah, uh, one of the main themes is, is like the joy of creation, um, which, you know, uh, as far as I understand it, I don't think that Jeff Tweedy is a very religious man or Christian or anything, but like, that's a Christian idea.

Yeah, right.

If we're made in the image of God God, uh, then whenever we create, we are— whether, whether by choice or not— we're reflecting God's glory a little bit. And, and so he's— his kind of, um, what seems to be one of the major themes of the book is him trying to like share that joy of creation, right? And that, hey, you can write a song even if you don't really think you can. Yeah, you can. Uh, and maybe it's not a song. Maybe a song for you looks like something different. Um, but like that, that contagious joy of creation, like he knows what that feeling is like and he wants to share that with other people. Um, which I thought was just a really like, um, you know, you've been, you've mentioned Fred Rogers. I think that's a really Fred Rogers like way to do it. Like, yeah, hey, here's a beautiful thing that I like and I think you'd probably like it too. Let's talk about it.

Yeah.

And, uh, that's what I love about that. And I feel the same way, um, you know, in my teaching. I've been, I've been teaching more songwriters, um, over the past year or so. And, and that's the thing I try to get across, like, you don't have to be Bob Dylan to enjoy writing songs. You don't have to be Jeff Tweedy. You don't have to be me. Like, the, the point of writing a song is that it can bring you joy.

Yeah, right.

And, and maybe it'll just do something besides that. Maybe it'll connect with another person, um, maybe it will lead to a career, but for most people, probably not, uh, and that's okay. Like, it's, it's about the, the joy you get in doing it, um, and, and that's one of the things I love about, about that book. And, uh, and I've recommended it to all of my songwriting students students since. Yeah, but you know, just because it's, it's so practical and so encouraging. Like, it's, it's not a big deep art, it's just something, just try doing it and yeah, see how it makes you feel, you know.

Yeah. And I think it can be applied to so much of life. Even, even just this morning, my, my son who's 8 now, but before school he, he wanted to sit down at our piano and some— he hasn't shown a lot of interest in music so far, so I get thrilled when he wants to sit down at my piano and play something. And so just before school, he's really into Godzilla right now for whatever reason. He just loves, um, he really hasn't even seen that much of Godzilla, but he just loves the idea of Godzilla, you know. And right, you're right. Um, and he's been listening to like the theme songs of Godzilla. And I actually put on my Instagram this morning, I kind of secretly videoed him from the side because he was sitting and plunking out, uh, the theme as he heard it. And it was starting to sound like, you know, Godzilla's theme song, you know, that he heard and was kind of putting his own touch on it. And I was like, oh Oh, he's getting it, you know, he's starting to, to make it. And I think all that is, is together. Like, it doesn't have to sound like a, a great work of classical music or anything yet, you know, it's in that beginning stage of creativity. Um, or, or whether, you know, if you're a person that likes to draw or paint or, you know, anything like that, there's, there's so much joy in doing it. Sometimes we forget in our society, I think, when we're so, um, maybe YouTube-oriented. I got to get something and put it online, somebody watch it, get lots of likes, right? Like, like, do you like it though? Like, you're the one making it. Like, do you really like this? Like, that's, that's really an important aspect of it because, I mean, chances are if you really like it, it might, it might be something other people like, but but if, if you really like it, that's— I mean, that's half the battle, you know? And it brings so much joy. So again, I, I think that that's a lot what the book is. And we don't have to spend a lot of time on that book, but I just felt like it was worth mentioning from a songwriting standpoint. It's true.

And a lot of the songs, like a lot of songs in the new record, kind of came out of that spirit, you know? Like, uh, it's just I didn't have any plans for where these songs would end up until the very end. Um, I just, I wrote them because I felt like I needed to write them, you know, whether I was going through a moment or, or whatever. It was just like, I feel like I need to, to sing something or write something right now, and it brought me joy in that moment, uh, to work through that issue or to think through that thought or to play that thing on the guitar or whatever. And, and I think that most of the, the art that we resonate with, it comes, comes from those kinds of places, you know. It, it's rarely contrived. It's just people who have, you know, are just letting that childlike part of their creativity flourish a little bit, you know. And, you know, my son is obsessed with all, all kinds of trucks, any kind of truck or construction equipment, anything like that. And he recently, as a 4-year-old, he figured out how draw a truck, and it's like two circles connected by a curvy line that kind of looks almost like a, like a Volkswagen, Volkswagen, you know. And he was like, he's like, Daddy, look, a truck! And I was like, that is a truck, like, that's really good. And that sort of joy and, um, and kind of satisfaction and doing something, and I don't know, it's, that's a gift, man. It's, it's a gift from God that, that he lets us kind of like find joy in that whether we're, you know, planting a garden or making a cake or writing a song or playing Godzilla, you know.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and the fact is, you know, when it comes to God as the ultimate creator, we're never going to match the divine skills for sure. But if we think of it as parents, I mean, that's kind of our window in, I think, in some ways to see the divine perspective. Because there's there's a sense in which like the things that are not, you know, maybe not even impressive to anybody else, us as parents, and we watch the development happen, it's like, wow, that's amazing, you know. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't take a million dollars for that, you know, for that little picture that you have. Like, you can't see this, listeners at home. I'm gonna let you see it, Stephen. This is something that meant a lot to me. I've got a Superman sticker on my shirt right now. Yeah, this just happened this morning. I went, took my son to the doctor, and, uh, when we're leaving the doctor, they just randomly gave him like 3 stickers when he left the doctor. That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, oh, Superman! Well, he knows I love Superman. And when I got him back to school, because he got to go to school late, which he was excited about anyway today, you know, because that's always a big deal for kids, for sure. And he didn't say a word., and I dropped him back off, and I'm giving the note to the office. And as they're giving him his pass to go back to class, without saying a word, he peels off the sticker and he sticks it on my shirt and he goes, "Here you go, Dad. I know you like Superman." And it was sort of like the thought of like that he thought of me, you know? It wasn't like, I wasn't like, this is the greatest gift in the world. Like, like the, the monetary value wasn't the point. It was the— it was the value in him thinking of me and knowing that I liked that, you know. And it was the whole idea, like, we, we see those type of perspectives, and we— and I think of like, like Merton's view of prayer about God, like, God, I don't know what pleases you, but I hope that it pleases you that I want to please you, you know. And as we draw near to him and I think even with our art, I don't know that this is for sure what the mind of Christ is, but I hope that the desire that I want to please you so much with this is what is pleasing you, you know, in the midst of all this. So anyway, it's true.

And I think, I think even that desire is, is evidence of the Spirit's work.

Yeah.

You know, just the, like, it's not a big deal for somebody to give someone else a sticker.

Yeah.

Your son giving you a sticker points to the deeper truth that, like, he knows you and he cares about you, you know, if he didn't like you, he would have kept the sticker to himself.

Exactly right. Uh, it was—

it's cool how little things like that can kind of point to the bigger—

yeah, it's the meaning behind it. Well, hey, let's, let's talk about this song Rebuild as we close our conversation today, because I think we're at a good point to do that. You've got this song that I really love, and we're gonna play it in closing of our conversation today. But on The Art of Repair, you have this brilliant song and I do think it's brilliant. It's a wonderful piece of storytelling. The music is great. It all is married together as a whole to tell this wonderful story. It's in many ways like a heartbreaking story as it starts, but it is a story of repair. So tell me the story behind Rebuild, and then to close the episode today, we're gonna actually close it by playing the song for everybody to hear. Sure.

Yeah, so I guess right before the pandemic happened, I— well, I guess it was longer than that, whatever. My studio moved locations where I teach every day, and, and so I started driving through this neighborhood that I'd never really driven through before, not very far from my home. But I'd never taken this way before, and I found this way, and I liked driving this way to get to my studio. And it's a beautiful neighborhood. It's not like a bunch of small houses kind of like all crammed together. There's a little, a little bit more, you know, yard. It's a little more country-esque, even then kind of a not very country area. And there was this lovely house with screened-in back porch and kind of a barn out back, and it was just lovely. It was an older home, looked like it was probably from the '70s, you know, and there was an older couple that lived there and he would drive around on a golf cart, you know, and it was just— I never knew these people, but I would pass them on the way to work every day. And as I was kind of getting to know this neighborhood on my new drive to work, and one day I was on the way home and there was a guy standing, like a business-looking guy, standing in the middle of the street, like taking pictures on I was like, what is this guy doing? And I looked over and he was taking a picture of that house because it had burned to the ground. And I was like, ah, you know, like the screened-in porch, like just this like beautiful thing that like, I, you know, like I don't, I didn't, I don't have any stake in these people's lives, but it was just, I got, you get used to seeing it. And it's just something about seeing that house just kind of brought me some joy on my way to and from work every day. And it was just so sad because it was just gone. So, you know, a week or two goes by and you see crews coming and cleaning stuff up and hauling stuff away and whatever, and it's just the slab. And it's just— it was sad. But then one day, uh, they actually— they even broke up the slab. But one day I came back out and they were— there was a concrete truck and they were repouring the slab, and there was a camper set out out by the barn. They moved into the camper and they built the house. They rebuilt the house, but this time they built it with brick. The porch area, the whole, the whole thing, they rebuilt it with bricks. And it's just beautiful. And when I realized what they were doing, I was like, that is just—

that's—

I'm so happy about that. And the guy, you still see the guy around his golf cart every now and then. And, um, and they rebuilt the house. And I still pass it over— I passed it on the way over here. And it's, it's beautiful. And at the same time, I was going through a lot of the, you know, the things we were talking about earlier. And so that word rebuild just kind of stuck in my head.

Yeah.

And so I, I just kind of, I tried to imagine, I don't know what caused the fire. I don't know anything about that, but I just kind of tried to imagine. So it's kind of a based on true events. I tried to imagine what that would be like. And then, uh, and then kind of connected it with my own, my own personal journey as well. And, um, anyway, that, that's the song that kind of coalesced, and it was like, okay, I think this is what this record needs to be. Yeah. And, um, so yeah, so it was, it was a blessing to be able to write, a lot of fun to be able to write, and, uh, it kind of became the theme song of the record.

Yeah. Well, I really like the song, and it really does feel like kind of the heart of the album. So it's my pleasure to get to share it on the show today. So we're going to do just that. We're gonna, as we close the episode, we're gonna play the song Rebuild, uh, from the new album from Stephen McNeil. It's called The Art of Repair. It comes out in October, so everybody make sure and, and do all the things that you do when an album is about to come out. Pre-save it on Spotify, um, find, find Stephen online, and, uh, and we'll make sure and put as many links as we can online, uh, for that so that you can find it easily on the Voices in My Head website. Uh, but Stephen, thank you so much for, for coming back on. It's always a pleasure. And as I say to my guests every week, thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Thanks, Rick. Good to talk to you again.

It started by the kitchen sink. A faulty wire worn and frayed. It spread too quick for us to think. We had just seconds to escape. As we stood shivering in the street, surveyed the smoldering remains, our lives in ruin at our feet, there was a choice for us to make.

Rebuild.

Oh, rebuild, brick by brick together. Oh, rebuild, rebuild, so that we can stand the weather. It isn't easy, but it's better if we try to rebuild. Sometimes your friends will let you down. Sometimes they'll say the same of you. Sometimes the damage is severe and there is nothing you can do but Rebuild, rebuild, brick by brick together. Oh, rebuild, rebuild, so that we can stand the weather. It isn't easy, but it's better if we try to rebuild. It's the same as if we left and started over somewhere new. Some cracks just cannot be repaired. Some land is better left unused. But the truest beauty that I know Is not the earth, the stars, the sky? It's when the dire wounds of death are healed as scars that pulse with life. So let's rebuild, rebuild. Brick by brick together, oh, rebuild, rebuild, so that we can stand the weather. It isn't easy, but it's better to rebuild, rebuild, brick by brick together, oh, rebuild. Rebuild, rebuild. If we give up altogether, it would be easier, not better. I think we should rebuild.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.