Episode 457 - Ukraine Russia Conflict with Brandon Sipes and Jeremy Hudson

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Hello friends, Rick Lee James here. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. Sorry this podcast is going to be a little bit late this week, um, but still getting it out hopefully on Wednesday, uh, sometime during the day. I wanted to let you know that today is a special edition of the podcast, and I'm not in it very much at all. It's actually two of my friends, Pastor Jeremy Hudson and Brandon Sipes, who works for Nazarene Compassionate Ministries. They discuss together in a video on YouTube, and if you'd like to just go to YouTube and watch it, you can. Um, it's the, uh, the Fellowship Christian Church here in Springfield, Ohio. The two of them just having a conversation. I don't think it's quite a half hour, but it's, it's good information. Uh, Jeremy, again, he's the pastor of Fellowship Christian Church here in the city where I live, and Brandon is, uh, just one of my best and oldest friends, and he does a lot of work all around the world, and you're going to hear more about his work in the video, so I'm not going to give you too much preface, but he's very connected to our churches in Ukraine right now, and I know that that is top of mind for so many of us as we are thinking and praying. And they just did such a good job in their conversation together explaining what's going on in that part of the world, how we can pray, how we can help. And I asked if I could use the audio from their conversation to put out this week on Voices in My Head, and graciously they both agreed to that. So today I just wanted to share this with you. And I'll be trying my best to provide some links in the podcast show notes. But thank you to Fellowship Christian Church for doing this video. Thanks to Brandon Sipes and Jeremy Hudson both for having this very important conversation. Uh, it's very timely, and I, I wanted to put it out just as quick as I could. And the video just came out a few hours ago, and so I feel very grateful that they're allowing me to share it here today on Voices in My Head. So I'll stop talking and let them share with you more of the situation in Ukraine, what's going on with the church, things that the news is getting wrong that we know through conversations with people that are there that may be more helpful to us than what you might hear on a Fox News or a CNN or something like that. So without agenda, um, here is Brandon Sipes and Jeremy Hudson. So hope you enjoy their conversation as much as I did. Thanks for listening to Voices in My Head.

Hey, Fellowship family, Pastor Jeremy here. I wanted to take a second and invite you to join me in a conversation that has been transpiring, that, that I've been able to be a part of with my friend Brandon, who I'll tell you more about here in just a second. As we've been watching the news, we know of the situation that is unfolding right now in Ukraine involving Russia. It's also involving Belarus, and other countries surrounding that. For about 30 years now, Fellowship has had ministry partnerships in Russia. Those partnerships have grown into surrounding regions, and so we have people that we are connected to that are living in Ukraine, that are living in Belarus, and are involved and are deeply entrenched right now and affected by what is going on. So we've been watching this as a church with, um, uh, more than just a curiosity. There are people that we're connected to that are involved. And my friend Brandon, uh, many of you may remember him from, uh, a while back. He did one of our talkbacks, uh, recently when we were doing those. And Brandon's job has him in a lot of conversations and often traveling into a lot of areas around the world. That are involved in these type of things. And so, Brandon, I wanted to say thank you for joining me on this and helping. You're kind of my go-to guy when, when I'm watching things that are happening. I realize that sometimes our information sources aren't the most accurate. And so, Brandon, tell us a little bit about what you do. Why is it that you find yourself in conversations like this? And how did we end up talking about this this week?

Yeah, so my wife and I are part of the Church of the Nazarene, and she's a pastor in the denomination, and I work for sort of, I mean, you could sort of say like the humanitarian aid arm of our denomination. Your title is too long. It's too long, but the short of it is I help coordinate and support our churches as they respond to crisis, and sometimes that means after a hurricane, and sometimes that means a situation like this where a conflict has broken out. We exist to support what our churches are doing, and so we have been actively in communication every day, seemingly all day, with our leaders, pastors, and churches in Russia, Ukraine, in fact the whole Eastern European region.

So one of the reasons, not only is Brandon my neighbor, and, you know, we live in the same town, so we find ourselves in connection a lot, but Brandon, you did a lot of education study, and then before you stepped into the role you're in now, you found yourself often working with people in conflict. Talk a little bit about that. How is it that you found— what does that work like, and how has that kind of shaped your response right now?

Yeah, so I went to Mount Vernon Nazarene and did a Christian education degree, and then went to Xavier in Cincinnati and had some more theological education, but found it increasingly focused on religious conflicts and violence and reconciliation theology. And I was exploring all of those issues and then just happened to sort of get very lucky and be connected with the right person at the right time. And that led to me doing some mediation work primarily in the Middle East between Israelis and Palestinians, some in North Africa after the Arab Spring, working with some governmental groups there as they sort of rebuilt things. Then, you know, with churches, with displaced people, a lot of my background has been how do you step into the middle of people that are in conflict, whatever that conflict is, and help them envision a new future. It's very much the same way we imagine, you know, like what God is doing at work here in our world. We have this huge vision for what God is doing, and he tells us, you know, I will make all things new, and we get to participate in that, and a piece of that is seeking shalom, where nothing is broken and where there is no violence, no war, no hatred. And sounds wildly unrealistic, but that's what we're called to point toward.

Sure, that's what we're supposed to be about, right? And so I tell you all that to say, you understand now when I'm watching something or I'm trying to put my arms around what's going on, Brandon is one of my top phone calls. Hey, can we sit down and talk? Because I know you've had the training in it, but you've also had lived experience of being in the rooms. So all that to set up, a few days ago you texted me a screenshot that you were having. You said, hey, can you— actually, you asked me to pray. Can you be praying for a meeting I'm having right now? And what was striking about the screenshot is that it was actually with an individual, and the other person on the other end of that Zoom meeting that you were having was actually in a Ukrainian bomb shelter. It was one of the ministry leader pastors, the contact that you have. And you were doing a meeting to check in what's going on. But it just was striking to me that the other side of that call was coming from a bomb shelter. And as we dialogued a little bit about it, I just realized I have zero category for that. Like in the lived experience that I've had, even international experience, I don't have a lived experience for, or a category for being a leader currently underground with a single light bulb hanging from the ceiling, waiting for a barrage of rockets to stop, and then to figure out what do we need to do about that. So, Brandon, I, I wanted to bring you in and, and have you talk to us a little bit about what you know, having those contacts from our Ukrainian brothers and sisters. I think sometimes it's beneficial for us to shut off CNN or Fox News, wherever we get our news from, because while there's, there's a benefit to getting information, we have to understand that information is coming to us with an agenda. And there's, there's something that they're trying to propagate that it's, you know, that's not gospel and church related.

Sure.

So I want to invite us for a few moments to turn off Fox News, CNN, whatever else, and resist getting sucked into what the pundits and the talking heads are telling us is important and going on. And would you share with us kind of what's important. What are you hearing from our contacts, especially in the Ukraine, because I know that's where you've spent— you're doing more connection with right now. What do our Ukrainian brothers and sisters want us to know and understand right now?

Yeah, you know, every project we work on, every proposal I ever receive, almost every phone call that I have, my very first question always is, How are you identifying and serving the most vulnerable? Like in this moment, whatever it is. Like I said, if it's a hurricane, an earthquake—

This is with national leaders. So wherever it is, this is what you're asking national leaders.

Yeah, or a single church pastor. You know, some of the pastors we're working with now, they have small congregations, but now they're hosting, you know, 40 or 50 people in their community or in their church basement. But the question is always, how are you locating the most vulnerable? The ones who are most at risk right now. And so when I was talking on that meeting that you mentioned, and as I've been talking with them over the last few days, it's clear to me that they are making space for those who have nowhere else to go, those who have fled their homes, and they're either fleeing into neighboring countries. We have churches in every country around Ukraine that are now receiving refugees at the border, going to the border, meeting them, driving them hours back to other cities. And they're actively looking for ways to support, first of all, people that are having to flee, and then secondly, those that either can't flee or for one reason or another just have to stay. So one of the leaders that we mentioned, our district superintendent for Ukraine, his mother also lives nearby in an apartment building on her own, but she's elderly and has a walker. She's not very mobile. And so they haven't left. In part because, you know, where will she go? What could we do with her? They shared a kind of a heartbreaking text with me the other day saying, you know, it takes her a long time to get back and forth to the shelter, you know, 'cause they'll go to the shelter when the sirens start or overnight and then sometimes try to go back to their apartment to shower or to try to make a phone call or—

To make sure it's still there.

Right, and so, but the other day the sirens started and there wasn't enough warning and so his, mother said, you know, "Leave without me," and they just had to leave her there in the apartment as they went to the shelter. I think having had these conversations with our local pastors, their family members, hearing them tell their story about their family members, I think if they were going to tell us one thing or ask us one thing, it certainly would be to pray. We've had prayer-only meetings with them. We've had planning meetings with them, and those have a very different tone.

Sure.

Right. A very different focus and a very different feeling, but I can tell you the times when they have felt most exhausted, most depleted, it has been those times of prayer and encouragement, and even just connection. Connecting with, you know, friends from around the world that they haven't talked to in a while just for a moment to say, "Hey, we're thinking about you. We're praying about you." Now, because of my line of work, I always want to take those next steps. You know, what comes next after prayer? But the situation is desperate, and particularly today, there's a great amount of danger on its way to them, especially these folks that are still in Kyiv, and our prayers are desperately needed.

And that's not secret information. I mean, news outlets are reporting that it's what, a 40-mile convoy of Russian soldiers that have come in and are heading towards the Capitol, and, um, conflict is imminent. But, but God intervened to do something, right? Um, you mentioned prayer. Um, what are some— so, so, um, brothers and sisters, fellowship family, like, let's get our prayer list out. What are some specific things that we can be praying for Ukraine right now especially?

Um, well, first, the, the First, comfort and safety. There are a lot of people who are sheltered, you know, and the shelters are, you know, from a nice church building to a crawl space under the building, right? There's just a huge, you know, variance between the types of places that people are sheltering in. So comfort and shelter would be one. For those who are able to escape and are trying to, that things would speed up. You know, there are, 24 and 40-hour waits at borders, you know, just waiting to get through. In addition to that, I would like to mention that there are groups of African and Indian students in the country that have been studying in Ukraine and are not being allowed to leave the country because they don't have the correct visa, and probably for other reasons as well, but pray for their ability to flee. And then beyond that, just the logistics of what it looks like to serve people in a conflict setting. Do they have food and water? Do they have proper shelter? Do they have hygiene items? Are they able to access funds when they need to? Can they communicate with loved ones? Those very practical logistical things are things that we need to be praying for. I would add one last thing because I do think it's important. Our prayers are not always sweet. There are Psalms and prayers in the Bible that ask, you know, where we are asking God to lift up the lowly, right, and to stand on the side of the vulnerable, and then there are prayers where we are asking God to bring down the mighty, and I don't mean that in terms of like an— I just mean it is okay for us to pray for peace, and we should, and it is also okay sometimes for us to be angry and to say, This needs to stop, and those who are in power need to recognize that, even if it means they lose their power. And those who have no power, who are being squashed literally under the wheels of war, we pray for them today.

And we see biblical evidence of, you know, Esthers and Mordechais rising up, you know, and stepping into dangerous spots. My devotions this morning, it was— it hit me that 2/3 of the Psalms are Psalms of lament. And so there's a place for us as a church, as the church universally, to lament what is going on and to cry out for Ukraine and to cry out for even our brothers and sisters in Russia and Belarus that are sucked into this, whether it's their choice or not. You were mentioning this earlier, and I wanna give you an opportunity You know, we've had a lot of long talks, you and I, about how sometimes our American perspectives can crowd out a bigger church perspective. What would be some pitfalls that we could see in this crisis that, that we might accidentally fall into with an American-only church perspective, and what would be an encouragement that you would give us as a church to avoid those so we can keep a kingdom perspective?

Yeah, I think, you know, whether it's an issue like this or a theological issue, we, you know, talk about confirmation bias. Like, we tend to gravitate towards things that we sort of already agree with, and I think that's one of our biggest dangers. I think especially as Christians, we can tend to sort of crowd out, like you said, all the competing information so that we can sort of focus on the ones that tell us, "Oh, I was right about this," you know. So that's one thing I would really encourage us to stay away from, but For me overall, I think in the United States we're definitely guilty of this. Other places of the world they are as well. We forget what our primary allegiance is, and we start to kind of slowly sometimes give priority to other things, and we think it's not that big a deal until we don't even realize that we've given so much of our allegiance over to whether it's our national identity or some other thing we've placed all of our meaning into.

Political identity.

Right.

Right.

And so then that becomes our marker for what's true and what's right. And in a situation like this, there needs to be something that mediates between those identities. It's not wrong for our Russians to have a Russian identity. It's not wrong for our Ukrainians to have a Ukrainian identity, right? That level of patriotism in and of itself isn't unhealthy or toxic., but there needs to be something mediating between that for us, and for us that's our identity in Christ. And so we recognize fully that when I'm talking to you as someone from another country, or when two countries are in conflict, what takes the primacy role there is that we share an identity in Christ. And so I ask our Nazarene Russian pastors, leaders to affirm our identity exists in Christ. First and foremost, and that that means we look at the most vulnerable. Again, who is being impacted most negatively in this situation? And we say, Christ would not stand for this, and my identity and allegiance to Christ calls me to speak out against what is happening here. It takes supremacy over my Russian identity. And then I include myself in this category, but we don't do that well always here. We tend to allow our political biases or preferences, and especially our national identity to sort of guide and shape all of our approaches to those.

And our conveniences.

Yeah.

Right? Because we tend to respond to this crisis by how are we going to be impacted? What's the economic effects? I'm being transparent. I started watching this escalate because I have somebody that serves in the military, right? And so in the back of my mind, is this going to affect their, their, their status? But I think you're right, like our biggest cause of concern is where would Jesus stand on this issue? And Jesus wouldn't be standing splitting the fence between Russia and the Ukraine going, let's see how this shakes out. We do see a clear line of oppression being forced on the defenseless. And we can stand up and say this isn't right without having to say we're pro-Ukraine over Russian or pro-Russian over Ukraine. We're just not okay with what's happening.

And the more that we consistently give our total allegiance to Christ, it becomes easier to do that and more consistent to do that because it's— you don't have to make that decision anymore. It's— I remember I I am remembering all the time the story about the Amish school shooting that happened here years and years ago. And immediately the parents of those children that were killed forgave the shooter immediately. And when the newscaster asked them, well, how can you do that? I mean, this was within hours after the event. How can you do that? And they said, well, we're Christians. We decided a long time ago that that's what we have to do.

Forgiveness is what we do.

Because their allegiance was to Christ and not to something else. And so the more that we can do that, the more that we can affirm, you know, I like where I live, I like, you know, being here, I like being in Ohio, but it's not where I find my primary identity, my primary meaning. It's in Jesus.

Right. And so when we find ourselves orienting our perspective to those things, it becomes easier to know how we respond, right? And so there are discussions that are happening right now about the conflict that I can just let pass by because that's not important comparatively to where Jesus would stand on this issue. So Brandon, if— and I had another question that I've been getting, and we'll wrap with this— how can we help? I mean, we can't get on a plane. It would do us no good to go to Ukraine. We've got connections in Russia that have said, even before this all started, "Don't come now, this is getting bad." So if we wanted to help and be a part of that, what could we do and how could we be a part of that?

Well, beyond what we've already talked about, from someone who works in the disaster and crisis field, one thing we will always say is direct donations to organizations you trust is the quickest and easiest way to get funding to people who need it. So, Jeremy and I were talking before this. You know, we had one of our planning meetings yesterday— Sunday, excuse me— for a couple of hours about how do we get money to these pastors that are currently sheltering people in their church buildings because of the difficulties with funding and all of that. And so, we had this whole meeting about how do we transfer electronically money under their cards directly so that they have access to it. So, I would say donate to an organization that you trust that is working in this area, and particularly local organizations that have existed there before this crisis emerged.

In—

on location.

Yeah, in Ukraine, in Poland, in all these countries surrounding it that are receiving refugees now. Local organizations that have a track record of working in those countries are the best places for you to donate to.

So we're going to post those links into the comments below or to the show notes below, links to the organizations that Brandon's going to provide for us as well as be able to just give to the Nazarene Compassion Global. So we're not setting up anything on our own. It's better to go with organizations that already have these on-roads established, and ones that we have confidence in that they're not— because unfortunately there are probably people that are opportunistic, and now's an opportunity. So if they're posted in the comments below or the notes below, these are ones that we have confidence in that we'll get to our Ukrainian pastors as well. You know, I think it's probably appropriate for us just to conclude with some prayer, especially like you said, we're not praying in the theoretical. Right now time is literally ticking down for our brothers and sisters in Kyiv that are waiting to see what this column of occupying forces are going to do and how the conflict is going to escalate or, or be subdued. I don't know. I mean, it's just hard to tell. So, um, so I just want to maybe ask you to start and then I'll close. And let's just take a couple minutes here. Church, join us from wherever you're at and let's pray for our brothers and sisters in Ukraine. Let's pray also for our brothers and sisters in Russia that have the opportunity to speak out against this. And I know it's hard, and there's— we've— you've had some conversations, we've had some conversations with our brothers and sisters in Russia. They're in a really tight spot. This is a place where they really need to have discernment on when to say and what to say the right things to support the church wherever it's at. So Brandon, would you start us off and I'll close us?

Father, thanks for this opportunity today to come and try to be an advocate for our folks in the Ukraine who are currently suffering because of this conflict. We know that they feel your presence. They have told us that, that they feel the prayers of your people when we pray for them. And so we pray for that now as darkness is descending currently in Ukraine and these cities that are being attacked by a foreign military, a foreign government. We know that, that they will feel the prayers of your people for them. And so we pray for them tonight. That they would receive comfort, that they have shelter, that they have safety, food that they need, other items that they need, that they're able to communicate with their loved ones as needed. We pray for a de-escalation of this crisis and conflict. Lord, whatever it takes to convince the people who are guiding this conflict to cease and to withdraw and to reconsider, and in biblical terms, to repent, of what they are doing, God, we'd ask that you would do it. We pray for our Ukrainian pastors and leaders, and not just in the Church of the Nazarene, but the people of God who live in Ukraine who are crying out to you. We pray that you hear their cries. And we pray for those in countries surrounding Ukraine who are receiving refugees, who are taking full-day trips back and forth to borders to shuttle refugees away from the border and into safer spots. We pray for their safety and their well-being. Being. We're grateful for the work of the church there. We're thankful that we get to participate in what you have called us to do in those spaces. And pray also for our Russian leaders, church pastors, congregation members, that they would have the courage and the ability to stand up and say that this is not faithful to who God is calling us to be in this time, and that we will stand on the side of the most vulnerable and ensure their safety as much as it is possible for us. We pray too for them as they wrestle with how to manage that stress and how to manage dealing with this conflict and be supportive mostly of those who are in danger in Ukraine. Be with them all.

How long, O God? Often though, the psalmist begins psalms of lament and prayer of lament with words like that. How long will you allow this to continue? God, as your people, that's what we're asking. We're asking that you would intervene and that you would stop and turn back, uh, what is going on, uh, in Ukraine right now. Um, God, we pray that you would rise up, uh, leaders in decision-making spaces, uh, in diplomatic places, uh, as well as military places. That would be able to turn the heads of those that have embattled themselves against these positions because lives are literally in the balance and are being lost because of some of the decisions that are being made from afar. God, we pray that you would end this and that you would turn this around. God, we pray that you would fortify your church in both locations, that while this unrest, this invasion, I mean, the right words fail me, Lord, but while this is going on, that your church would shine for what it's supposed to be, that it would love well, that it would minister, that it would stand up for what is right in your sight, Lord. And Lord, that it would also lead the way in forgiveness once this is done. Uh, God, I pray that you would protect lives, especially the lives of the vulnerable. I think of our friend's mother, um, and so many like her that are incapable sometimes of protecting themselves, um, because of the challenges they have. God, we just pray that it would stop and, uh, that no more lives would be lost. God, we pray that this column that is marching its way towards the Capitol, uh, would be stopped., that it would be, um, resisted, maybe even supernaturally, um, that they would be able to go no further, uh, that no shots would be fired tonight, Lord. And, um, God, do something so big that the whole world would have to take notice that it was you. Um, God, that's what we're asking for tonight. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Thank you, fellowship. Please continue to pray for what's going on. And check out the notes and ways that you can be a part of helping the church in the East go through this difficult time. Brandon, thanks for being here.

Yeah, thanks, Jeremy. Appreciate it.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.