Episode 502 - It Doesn’t Start with a Punch - Dee Dee Said

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, songwriter, author, worship leader, an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene, and most recently, a hospital chaplain. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss things that are on my mind. The Voices in My Head. Music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more are all on the table as I discuss them here with friends and colleagues and sometimes just by myself, processing what I'm learning in the moment. Make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes, tweeting to me @RickLeeJames on Twitter, and by joining my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com. Where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you are interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the loudest voices in my head, which is ironic because he was such a quiet person. Also, if you do want to be notified about all of my latest releases, not just this podcast, sign up for email notifications on my Substack page found at rickleejames.substack.com. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so let's get to the latest episode of Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so grateful for all of you who are listening today. Well, February is National Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month, and DeeDee Saeed hopes to raise awareness, share, share the warning signs, and talk about how to help by discussing her journey and how God led her on the road to healing. As the author of the book It Doesn't Start with a Punch: My Journey Through an Abusive Teen Dating Relationship, DeeDee shares her personal experience to help others understand how easily adolescents can become involved in an abusive relationship, how abuse can start subtly, and how to help someone get help, and how God healed her deep emotional wounds. DeeDee, thank you for being here to tell us more about this important topic and your new book, Welcome to Voices in My Head.

Well, thank you, Rick. I'm really happy to be here today. Thank you so much.

Well, I'm very glad to have a chance to visit with you today and find out a little bit more about your work. I'll be honest, I didn't know that February was was National Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month. So this was something that, that you brought. And I'm very interested in that because for many years I was a youth pastor and I don't have a teenager in the house now, but I will in a few years. He's 10 years old and that time is coming. So I really am interested in this topic that we're going to be talking about today with teen dating and violence. But I want to first ask you, why is the topic of teen dating abuse so close to your heart?

So, um, as a teenager, when I was 16, I started dating, you know, what became my first boyfriend, but it also became an abusive dating relationship. And I stayed in it for 3 years until I had the courage to leave. And, and as I've learned about it, I've seen that it's not very much talked about. Um, there's a statistic that only 30% that were in it abusive dating relationship ever talk about it. So there just isn't a lot, you know, and then we tend to see the news story, the worst case scenario, and that's usually at the end of a relationship. And so there's a lot of subtleties that go into it up until that point. And I just really felt God place it on my heart to share and share in a way that would help others understand how small they start and how, you know, and grow and to help identify the warning signs to help protect others from being in one.

Well, very good. Well, well, thank you for, for tackling this, what I'm sure is difficult in some ways, subject. But the— even just being able to share some of your journey with the people who read your book, and, and as you share, um, thank you for letting your wounds be a source of healing for others. We really appreciate that. You presented me and, and the readers as well with some statistics, and I wonder if we might just talk about them a little bit as we begin this conversation, because I, I think that Maybe people listening might be as surprised as I was when I read these stats. So first, you said that studies show that 1 in 3 women in the United States will be in an abusive relationship, whether that's verbal, emotional, physical, and/or sexual, at some point between the ages of 16 and 24. 1 in 3, that just seems so high. Can you, can you talk to us a little bit about this and kind of where you, you get this information from, because I think that's important for us to look at.

Sure. Um, you know, and I apologize, I, well, I know that, um, Love Is Respect has it on their website.

Okay, sure.

They're an organization geared solely towards protecting youth in, in dating violent relationships. But I first found that statistic over 10 years ago, and it has remained the same. And I've, you know, continued to to Google and search for it, and it's out there on a number of different websites. And I said 1 in 3 girls there, but it's also 1 in 10 boys.

Wow. So boys and girls alike. That's very interesting to hear about that. And it's interesting when you said that, more sad than interesting, I guess I would say, that the number hasn't changed. We would hope that that would drop over time, but it seems like it's just stayed right where it is. Well, you also say that emotional and verbal abuse can be just as damaging as physical physical and sexual abuse. All forms of abuse have short-term and long-term effects. I think that's important, isn't it? Because so often we think of abuse as just something physical, but there are many forms of abuse, even spiritual abuse, that happens. And, uh, and I think that's important for us to be able to, to talk about those things. And then also just one more statistic that you shared. You said that that most adults, 81% of parents in one study, don't believe or don't know if teen dating violence is an issue. And so as I hear those statistics today, this is why it's important that we talk about such things, because we, we think it doesn't exist because maybe we haven't experienced it or we don't know anyone who has. But it seems like this is a very, a very important, very prevalent issue for us to talk about. So when we're looking at your book, It Doesn't Start With a Punch: My Journey Through an Abusive Teen Dating Relationship, I want to ask you first, as the author, who is this book for? Who is your target audience that you're trying to reach and hopefully will hear this message?

You know, I think the overall audience is, is adults, um, probably, you know, parents, maybe relatives, youth directors, teachers, anybody that works with youth and could identify a warning sign and potentially be able to help a youth. I have known some, some young adults that have read the book and have found value in seeing warning signs, red flags laid out, and, you know, then being able to identify things maybe that they've, they've seen or heard of in their own lives or able to help a friend. But it was primarily written with adults in mind, but it doesn't mean that a teenager or a young adult wouldn't benefit from it too.

Well, that's terrific, and that's so good to know because we're— it's really with the people in mind who are raising, you know, young adults, whether that be parents or people who teach them and in church or even in other areas. So it's so good to know that, that this is a real resource to help people who are trying to, to influence young people. So something that, because you've done so much work in this, you've experienced so much of this, I wonder, would you be able to just share a little bit of your story so that we can know where you're coming from?

Sure, absolutely. So I was, um, and my dad was an officer in the Air Force. My mom was a kindergarten teacher, you know, normal middle-class family. I was involved in our church's youth group, attended regularly, played on the high school tennis team, was on student council, National Honor Society, um, was the only one of my friends that had not gone on a date yet. And, uh, when I met Brock and, and we started talking and, and eventually going out, and, you know, he was, he was nice, came to my door, took me on a nice date, took me back to the door after the date. We did normal things like hanging out with friends, double dates, going to the haunted house, watching movies. And, um, but, but it started very subtly with, with the emotional and verbal abuse. And it was lies that then he would tell me were jokes and couldn't I take a joke. And he would start putting down my friends and family, talking negatively about them, pointing out what perceived to be flaws, I would, you know, stand up, but it also, if he thought ill of them, I worried what he would think of me for being involved with them. And then it started on me. Like I took harder classes in school, but he would tell me I was dumb. I would speak back and point that out. And he would say, oh, but you know, that's book smart. You don't know how to survive in the real world. So it was just that, you know, I, on the tennis team, I was, I was uncoordinated to him. No wonder I didn't play better than I did. You know, so it was just breaking that down. And like I said, I spoke back to it, but he always had a rebuttal as well. And so what, what you learn in that situation, if you don't walk away, what you learn is to begin to doubt yourself. So your self-esteem goes down, you begin to question yourself, you begin to withdraw from things. And so that's where, where I was at before it progressed to the next two levels.

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing just that story and how suddenly it can begin and not even realizing that it's happening. And I, you know, I wonder if sometimes even— you could probably speak to this better than I can— but I wonder if sometimes, especially young people, even realize that they are— what they are doing is abusing other people by the actions that they're taking. And I— that's, that's part of the story too. I wonder if, you know, especially in the way that you said it started.

Well, and I think that's something that's important to recognize now. It's like, it's common to hear that kind of language in a high school campus between friends, and they do think that it's a joking manner, but we also see it in the movies that we watch and television shows, and it's in song lyrics. And so we're surrounded by it in society, and we tend to think of it as normal. When it's not, you know, we're supposed to. So I think of the Bible a lot and how we're supposed to uplift and encourage each other, not tear each other down.

That's true. And I think that's very important because I, um, in my work as a, as a hospital chaplain, I've done a lot of reading and writing and studying about especially forms of abuse and, and the forms that they take. And sometimes what we call spiritual abuse is often this, this verbal abuse that's done to a person. And you're exactly right, we hear it sometimes as, oh no, they're just joking around. Or sometimes people will even look at it and say, oh no, that sounds like good parenting to me. You know, sometimes parenting techniques are actually a form of spiritual and emotional abuse without parents even realizing it. So I think it's very important that we pay close attention to the words that are coming from our mouth and our actions and our thoughts. Um, so just, uh, to pay attention to our time a little bit, and I want to get the most out of this that we can, uh, I wish we could go step by step through your whole book, but we can't do that today on this podcast. So I want to let everybody know who is listening that hopefully if the technology works, they can, uh, with a click of a mouse or pressing on your phone screen, whatever is you're listening to your podcast, go to the show notes and you'll be able to go to DeeDee's website, find out more about her and the book. But in the time that we have today here together, what are some of the protective factors that can shield youth from becoming involved with or even staying with an abuser? I think it's important for us to talk about some of those ways to protect.

So what, what can help a teen from getting involved in an abusive relationship or even the other risky behaviors that they, they tend to engage in is a good positive family unit, you know, being engaged in family and doing things together and, and talking, being involved in their community whether it's school sports or something outside of school, um, being involved in their church's youth group, giving back in their community. Those are all the top ways to have protective factors around a youth. I will say I fell into all of those protective categories and still stepped into this. So that's why I think it's important to know the warning signs.

Wow. Well, that's very good. I appreciate you being able to do that. What, what are some like warning signs of an unhealthy romantic toxic relationship.

Yeah, so somebody that puts you down or talks derogatory to you, maybe raises their voice, also doesn't value your— or doesn't, um, honor your values or your beliefs. You know, theirs are different and they kind of pull you away or, you know, just don't support. But, you know, something that is healthy is people that talk well together and have mutual respect and support and encourage each other. So, you know, understanding those differences is important.

Yeah, very much so. Thank you for that. Well, and as we're talking about this as well, you know, people might hear this and think, especially if they're not in an abusive relationship, they might think, well, why don't they just leave it? You know, that, that seems like the easy thing to do. And yet it's not so simple for people when they're inside of one. What would you say are some of the reasons that teenagers especially might tend to stay in an unhealthy relationship that is causing them not only not to flourish but is actually really causing them to experience abuse.

So for me, the first time that he told a big lie, I remember really debating like, this isn't right. Should I end this relationship? But he was telling me it was a joke. I started second-guessing myself, but the other part of that argument in my head was I did want a boyfriend. You know, there was a lot of people in the school hallways with a boyfriend and I was like, is this something worth breaking up over? And so that's why I stayed initially, but then it's, you know, as your self-esteem is chipped away, you know, you just, and you become more passive. Um, you hope that the person will, will change. Um, anyways, those are, those are some high, high-level ones of why they, why they stay. Yeah.

So it really is, is almost, uh, they find a source of connection in some way, even if it's not a healthy connection, but it's something that, as you said, you know, you felt like, is this, is this worth balancing this over here for having to endure that on, on that side and those type things. Well, there's another question that comes to mind too, and especially since you're targeting this book specifically at the adults really who love teenagers and who care for them and are care providers, and everybody from, from maybe the youth pastor at church or maybe even just somebody who is an adult that works with teens in their church. There's a lot of people who really care about young people at that age, and they want to see them be able to avoid some these pitfalls and maybe things that they themselves fall into. And yet that is such a tricky age as teenagers where in some ways it feels like, well, you can't tell them anything because you're going to, you know, push them away. I wonder what insights you might have into if you know that there is a teenager in your life, whether it's a family member, whether it's a friend. Again, maybe you're a youth worker at your church or somewhere in your community. Maybe you coach a ball team or something. I mean, there could just be multiple places. What are some of the ways that you would suggest to help a teenager or a tween, uh, to maybe help them get out of an abusive or unhealthy relationship?

You know, so first I would say before they're even dating, share the warning signs with them so that they're aware and can, you know, because adults, we talk about if you're dating as an adult, we talk about the red flags, the yellow flags, the green flags, but I don't know that we talk about that with our youth as much. And so helping recognize what healthy and unhealthy looks like. But then if you suspect that somebody is in it, it's important to approach them very gently. They've been put down for a long time. They doubt themselves. Their self-esteem is low. You know, as I think about the statements that he made to me, those are things that I never repeated to a friend. I never said, hey, what do you think of this? Because they were embarrassing to have had said to me. And so all this person has been internalizing all of this as somebody approaches them. And so I think first it's just important to say, you matter to me, you're important to me. And I think really highly of you. And I've noticed some changes and I want to make sure that you're okay, is probably the best approach to take rather than diving straight into the relationship. And then, you know, maybe even at that point sharing what some red flags are saying, you know, I hope that you're never in a relationship like this, but if you are, I hope you'll come and talk to me about it because you don't deserve to be in something like this. They may not open up right away. They've probably learned to keep it very tight to the chest and almost defensive about it because it's embarrassing to have let that happen to you. You know that it's not right, but you didn't see a way out of it. And by the time you might recognize it, you're embarrassed to share it with somebody else. You know, you have all of those doubts going through your mind. But then You know, when the person does open up, really listening to them and not interjecting a lot and just helping them feel like it's a safe place and not ever questioning. Like, I had several people when I did start sharing it say, oh my gosh, you're such a strong person. I can't believe that you put up with that. You know, that just adds to that shame. So just being supporting and encouraging and then helping them figure out ways to leave. A safety plan is really important if it's become, even if it hasn't become physical, if that person chooses wants to leave, it can. And so thinking through a safety plan and ways to keep themselves safe is really important too.

Well, that's wonderful advice. I really appreciate that. And excuse me, um, one thing I wanted to ask too— I, well, first I just wanted to say I love how really what you're describing is active listening, um, that you're taking a chance to really listen to another person, especially a young person, and I find that in the work that I do at all levels and at all ages, there is something so powerful about witnessing, not so much to another person, but being a witness of another person's life. And that kind of active listening where we actually use our eyes and make contact with each other. Like, I don't think people realize how important that is when we're really listening, that we're showing someone with our body language and our behavior, we're not down on our phone and, you know, looking away, but we're really giving them all of the signs that we are paying attention to them, that, that we want them to be heard. So I just think that's so important, first of all. And all of this, before a person can really receive what you have to give them as far as information, they first need to know that you care. And, and they won't, they won't care how, you know, until they know how you make them feel. So I really just first want to applaud you for that, for being that kind of person. But it leads me to, to one other question and I think I want to word it like this. What if there is a person, maybe even somebody listening, or somebody listening knows of someone in their life? Um, do you have any helpful resources for the, the teenager or a person out there who just doesn't feel like they have a safe person to talk to? Maybe they're not a part of a church, or maybe their family is really kind of in an unhealthy state themselves, and they don't feel like they can express that. That. And maybe they can, maybe they can't, but they're feeling like they can't express that. Do you have any suggestions or resources for someone who is facing that and saying, I really just need a safe person or a safe place to go to?

Sure. Yeah. Love Is Respect is a wonderful resource. Again, their sole focus is helping teens that are in abusive dating relationships. They have quizzes on their website that you can take to kind of determine things, but they also have an 800 number and a chat line that you can contact 24 hours a day.

Wonderful. Love Is Respect. I'm so glad to know about that resource because I think that's very important. I'm going to be having to let the youth pastor at my church know about this too because I think that's a wonderful resource that, that I didn't know about. You are sharing all kinds of things with me that are new to me that I didn't know, and I'm finding out for the first time. I didn't realize how prevalent abuse was in relationships, which Sadly, I think that speaks to a greater need in our society as a whole of just kind of the kind of people that we might be raising up and producing, and the— maybe the anxieties that we're carrying around. That behavior is learned from somewhere, and maybe they've learned it from someone themselves, and they're deeply hurting, the abuser on the other end. So there's so many things for us to consider and to factor in when we have conversations like these. So thank you taking the time to write a book, which, by the way, that takes a lot of time, takes a lot of effort, it takes a lot of focus to do that. So I applaud everyone who takes the time and care to put a book together, because I just know, as, as one who has written one myself, it takes a lot of work. So first of all, congratulations on the release. But, but then on the other side of that, just a topic that, that you, I think, are a unique voice that I haven't heard a lot of people talking about this. And I, and I think you fill a needed space that until you reached out to me, I didn't realize. It just wasn't something on my radar, but now it is, and I'm grateful to know that. I work with teens not as a youth pastor anymore, but as a music pastor at my church, and we try to incorporate teens in all the time. So I even just myself and the teens that I work with, this is good for me to this information and be able to pass it along to others. Well, no, go right ahead. I didn't mean to cut you.

Oh, I was just gonna say thank you. I mean, that's wonderful, and thank you for having me on today, because raising awareness and helping others understand this and even know about it is, is vital. So thank you.

No, I— well, thank you, and I, I appreciate you coming on today. Uh, before we end our visit together today, I wonder— I want to give you a chance that maybe there's something we haven't talked talked about today that you feel like, boy, this is really important and we need to hit it before we're done. Or maybe it's another resource, just whatever might be laid upon your heart right now. And I just want to make sure that you have a chance to say what you really wanted to say today.

Sure. So I guess a couple of things came to mind. One is, it's interesting, so probably about 50% of the people that become abusive in any way it is something that they learned from, from a family traitor or member or something, but 50% actually learn it from society, from the violent video games, from the movies that we watch, all of, all of that. And, and what it does to kids is they learn that violence or aggression is a way to solve problems. So I think just all of us as a society being, being aware of what we're watching, what our kids are watching is, is big. Um, and then the, there was two, two, uh, my, the resources page of my website, Build Strong Foundations, actually has a couple of other resources on there too. And, and there's info, all the warning signs are on there and what makes a healthy relationship and, and some different resources. But, but really, I think I wouldn't, um, be complete if I didn't mention how, how God worked in, in my life. And so So as this relationship grew, I would— one of the things I withdrew from, unfortunately, was the church. But, but God is awesome and pulls us back. And I just, you know, saw him working in my, in my life. And this, what you said, writing a book was hard. I didn't realize quite how hard it would be. But it truly was a labor of love. And I felt him place this on my heart to share and share in a way that wasn't just saying, oh my gosh, I went through this awful experience, but a way that helps other people understand how subtly it starts and grows and how to be able to help. So there's a lot of research in it as well. But, you know, he's, he's just amazing and pulls us back. And so every time I wrote, it was me praying and saying, Jesus, you know, let these words that come out of my fingertips be, be yours. And I really do feel like that was, was the end product.

So Well, very good. Well, thank you for sharing that today, DeeDee. I really appreciate it. Just one more time before we close today, I, I want to remind everyone the book is called It Doesn't Start with a Punch: My Journey Through an Abusive Teen Dating Relationship. It is written by my guest today, DeeDee Said. That's spelled S-A-I-D, in case you're interested in finding out more. And we will have her information on our website at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com, also on my Substack page at Rick Lee James. RickLeeJames.substack.com. Well, DeeDee Saeed, thank you so much for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Well, thank you so much, Rick. I really appreciate the time today.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. Music on the intro and outro of this show is from my single "As I Walk These Halls," which can be streamed on any streaming platform, including Spotify. I hope you'll visit me on my website at RickLeeJames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, schedule me for a concert, a speaking engagement, a podcast, or even a book signing in your neighborhood. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. The more positive reviews we receive, the more visible this podcast will be. And now the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.