Episode 504 - Tim Menzies - He Reminds Me

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, songwriter, author, worship leader, an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene, and most recently, a hospital chaplain. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss things that are on my mind. The Voices in My Head. Music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more are all on the table as I discuss them here with friends and colleagues and sometimes just by myself, processing what I'm learning in the moment. Make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes, tweeting to me @RickLeeJames on Twitter, and by joining my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com. Where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you are interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the loudest voices in my head, which is ironic because he was such a quiet person. Also, if you do want to be notified about all of my latest releases, not just this podcast, sign up for email notifications on my Substack page found at rickleejames.substack.com. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so let's get to the latest episode of Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I am so grateful to all of you who are listening today. Thank you for being here for what I know is going to be another wonderful conversation. He Reminds Me, the highly anticipated third Christian recording from Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter and guitar virtuoso Tim Menzies, released on March 3rd, showcasing a dozen selections all penned or co-penned by Menzies. He Reminds Me was produced by Ben Isaacs and features collaborations with some of bluegrass and gospel music's leading names like Ricky Skaggs, Rhonda Vincent, Jason Crabb, Rebecca Lynn Howard, and more. Tim dropped by the podcast for a visit today. And I'm so excited to have this conversation with one of Nashville's most prolific songwriters and a brother in Christ. You can find out more about him at his website, timminzies.com, which we will link in the show notes of this podcast. Tim Minzies, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you, Rick. It's an honor to be here. And I like the title of your program too.

Thank you. I get a lot of compliments on that, actually.

Well, we've all got them.

Yeah, we sure do. That's for For sure. Well, Tim, it's so good to be able to speak with you today. And as I was telling you before we started recording, I've been a fan of you for longer than I realized. It's a similar situation to a few years ago when I was in the recording studio with Dave Cleveland. And I told him, because he's played on so many amazing albums over the years, just one of the best guitarists in Nashville. And I told him, I said, you know, I've been a fan of you before I knew your name, you know, because of all the great songs that I heard you play on. It's similar to you. I think before I even knew your name, because of so many great songs you've written for so many amazing artists over the years, I've been a fan for longer than I realized. So it's a real pleasure to visit with you today. But for those who are not familiar with you and your music, I wonder if we could start by you just telling us a little bit about yourself.

Okay. I grew up in Virginia as part of a family band playing country music. And we were unchurched. And so I didn't have a church background, but I had the music background. And unfortunately, most of that was in bars, of which I do not recommend. But the Lord used that to cultivate the ability, you know, the instruments and the singing. And I knew as a little kid that I wanted to live in Nashville because I wanted to write country songs and hopefully play on records. And so I moved to Nashville 42 years ago. So I've been here most of my life now. Um, the Lord blessed all that. And as you said— excuse me, uh, pollen is coming out here in Tennessee.

Um, I understand.

Yeah, as you said, uh, uh, I was blessed especially through— from the late '80s through the early 2000s. Um, I wrote country songs for a living for 30 years, and I was very blessed. And, and, um, it was a dream come true. And I played on, you know, a lot of people's records here in Nashville. And, uh, So moving here was a childhood dream, and then the writing and the playing, uh, the Lord blessed that.

Yeah, well, that's fantastic. And you know, as I was reading more about you and your life growing up, uh, and, and even the— in you learning to play music with your family, and then your family, the Menzies Family Band, opening up for artists that really are like country music royalty today, like Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton and George Jones and Loretta Lynn and Merle Haggard, and just this long list, um, even though I know you recommend playing in bars, uh, that's part of your— of who you became, you know, these influences in your life and, and on your music. And it really comes through when we listen, I think, you know, and into the kind of the way that you're— you, uh, shape your lyrics and the way that you sing and play. I wonder if you have any special memory maybe that stands out from that time with the family band and maybe with some of these artists, or any moment that just in your memory you really hang on to and say, this was, this was good for me.

Absolutely. There's many. Um, we kind of became the local opening act for all of those artists that you mentioned. And, um, it's part of what— it's what initiated the dream of me moving to Nashville, is, uh, even as a 4 or 5 years old, I was singing with the family at 3 years old and started playing mandolin around 6.

Wow.

So I noticed that all of those people you named, Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton, and she was still with Porter Wagoner, and Loretta Lynn with the Wilburn Brothers, and they all had Tennessee license plates on their cars. I thought that, that must be where I need to go, you know. But the, the, the backstage, I was so young, I knew that these people were known. I knew they were nationally and internationally known, but it was such a routine thing for me that I didn't see as much of the celebrity of it. What I did see was the love of the music backstage. And all of those people that you named, um, they got into country music at a time when making money was not part of why you did it. There was not really, uh, the money wasn't really that attractive. Um, it was the love of the format. And so they all had that love, and they were kind. And I realized looking back, especially many of them had, um, a Christian faith. Um, it might not have been the most prominent part of their persona, but it came up backstage. And then a lot of those people that you named, if we went back, the, the final cut on those albums— um, and the young people might not remember what that was, but they're— the final cut a lot of times would be a gospel song.

Mm-hmm.

Um, that was my introduction, really, to gospel lyrics, was through Loretta Lynn and Johnny Cash and all those people. And, uh, as far as a specific memory, one time, uh, I remember we were out on the, uh, opening stage there, and my family and the microphones and the sound kept messing up and squealing and all that. And evidently Loretta Lynn was watching that from the side And when she came out, she complimented us and complimented the fact that we were professional through the sound problems. And she asked the sound man to not let that happen to her. And I just remember being impressed that she cared. Yeah, us, you know, because she was already well known and So that kind of stuck with me, those kind of memories. And the people, you know, it's all famous now with movies and everything, but I actually, I saw how Johnny Cash, um, kind of behaved and where he would have the guitar, um, strapped across his chest and the guitar would be on his back, you know. And, um, all the little tics that he had, I remember seeing as a kid, you know. So it's—

that's, that's great. What wonderful memories. And, and to grow up that way, that's a really unique childhood that most people can't say they had, that's for sure. Um, well, you know, and you'll have to correct me if I get any of my facts wrong because I've been trying to read up on you, but it just seems like you have done an amazing amount of things in your career, and, and it seems like there's, there's hardly anything in music you haven't done. Uh, as I was, uh, researching more about you, I discovered that not only, you know, you came to Nashville and wrote a lot of great songs, and, and some of my personal favorites are songs like I Thought It Was You by Doug Stone, and I Just Wanted You to Know by Mark Chestnut, and This Heart, which was recorded by a couple of artists— Sweethearts of the Rodeo, and then John Randall had a really great version of that too. But you were also a studio musician, uh, for artists like Kenny Rogers. So you've been a session musician, you're a solo performer, you're a writer, you've done all these, uh, jobs, worn so many different hats. So I'm just curious, do you have a favorite role in music? Is right now kind of where your favorite spot is doing what you do, or is there a part of you that goes, if I could do this again, or I'd love to do that? Just wondering what really makes you kind of tick as a musician.

Well, thank you. And I think that you're being a musician yourself is what makes you think of that question, because that's a very good question. If I had, you know, I had often said, because I made a few records as a young man for country music as a singer that were not successful. Um, and some of the people you named, and Tracy Lawrence and Trace Adkins, and some of the ones, Joe Diffie, they recorded those songs and had success with them. Yeah, I got the message kind of quick. Um, but if I had to choose, number one, I don't have any regrets. Um, part of what you just kind of laid out was the Lord blessing childhood dreams. Um, I didn't think about, as a child, um, those facets of being involved in the music industry being separate. Um, I was naive enough to think that I could come here and write songs for people and play on records and sing songs I had written. I just thought it wasn't an ego thing. I just thought that I could come here and do all of that. When I got here, I started realizing that doing them all with the excellence that it takes in this town to compete is really unsustainable. And so there was a brief time where I was playing on those records you named, and it was a thrill. I mean, I was— I, you know, played on Waylon and Willie, and like you say, Kenny Rogers, Tammy Wynette, George Jones, and it was a thrill. And I was also writing.. And I realized over a course of a couple of weeks that doing both simultaneously, um, was going to become a problem because of keeping up with both sides of that fence. And people here in Nashville are so talented and so dedicated to what they do. And, um, so I don't regret any of those, uh, moves, and I sincerely thank God for all of it. If I had to choose one thing, it would have been the songwriting, which is what the blessed me to do for the longest tenure of my career. And the thing about the songwriting is, uh, you literally sit there with a guitar 5, 6, 7 hours a day, and I get to sing and play and write. Um, and you know, some people may think it's strange, but I didn't grow up perfecting the craft, imagining myself in front of an audience. Um, I grew up kind of perfecting the craft just because I loved it. And I didn't, you know, I wasn't one of those. And I'm not judging this, I'm just saying I wasn't one of those that stood in front of the mirror with a, you know, a microphone. I didn't, I didn't think about how it looked, you know. And so the, the writing encompassed everything that I love. And then when you do demonstration recordings of the songs you've written, then I got to be with all my musician friends and be in the studio and record. So it was like the best of everything.

Yeah.

But now move forward, um, what the Lord has called me into doing now, making these Christian records as an artist, um, it is also one of the highlights of my life. But as you know, It's the serving of the kingdom and being the disciple of Jesus Christ and being invited to churches all in towns all over the country and being able to glorify God and point people to Jesus. That's a dimension that I never had in those previous manifestations of the music.

Well, that, that's terrific. Thank you for, for sharing all of that. And I think it really helps us to, um, to have a little bit of an inside look of, of what keeps songwriters going too, because you have talked about not only your love for the Lord but a love for the music itself. I think that's one of the things that, that God has put inside of you. We all have these, uh, different pieces of who we are that make us unique, and, and that's one of your giftings from the Lord, that you have this, this deep love of music, and that the way that you write and the way that you share is unique to you, and that you're able to bring out in some of these Christian albums not just songs that you wrote for other people, but the way that you sing them and the stories that you tell. It's, it's really a beautiful way of telling the world, this is who I am, and this is who God has made me to be, and, and who God has, has remade me to be. So I, I love that part of your story. But just one thing I wanted to bring up too, because we do have a number of not only people who are in ministry, but we have a lot of songwriters, as far as I know, that listen to this podcast. And I wonder if you could share a little bit too, because any of us who have ever pitched songs and had people, you know, try to write them and record them, you have probably a lot more that don't get picked up than do, you know, over the years. And you try to put those out.

It's not a fun percentage to look at. Exactly.

Yeah, it's one of those things. That like that we don't talk about these. But, you know, I can, I can distinctly remember, you know, just, just from my own personal story, there was one song that, that I, that I had written and I went on to record it myself with Lifeway. And it was— it's wonderful. And it's been a great honor to do that. But for me, it was a song that, that they were pitching to the Gettys, Keith and Kristin Getty, who I just love. They're amazing people, wonderful artists. And, and Keith was like, we're going to use this song and it's going to be, you know, that's going to be the one we open up with on this whole tour.. And I was just like so excited and I couldn't wait. And then like 3 months later it was like, yeah, we decided we're not going to do it now. And so it was like, it was one of those moments. It was like, oh wow. And then the disappointment, but that doesn't stop you from still doing it. The song still had a life of its own for me and I was able to record it and use it in different ways. So all this long preamble was just to say, I wonder if you could address just a little bit, what helps you to keep going on? Like say when the song doesn't get picked up and you as an artist who has written so many songs over the years, maybe give us some insight and help for those who are writers that might be listening, maybe even some encouragement that way.

Yes, well, the love of the craft and the love of the gift, it has to be there in order to, um, persevere through what you just described that you went through. Because it's so, um, people— what you just described about the Gettys and that happening, it really— and people don't believe this unless they understand the creative dream of it. That wasn't a financial decision, your disappointment. Your disappointment with the Getty's not doing it was the dream of a creative fulfillment. And then when it doesn't happen, it's pretty painful. And I've had many, many of those situations where Kenny Chesney was in this. This has happened to me 2 or 3 times on him. I don't quite know what the hell went wrong, but I would musician friends would call me and say, hey, you know, we just charted one of your songs and we are recording it. And then I would, you know, and it like 2 hours would go by and then I would get another call saying it didn't work. Oh, now you never know why, you know, but, um, but it's very, very discouraging. And the thing about getting through it is writing the next song. Um, I think that when I see people who really get defeated by that One thing is they've only written a handful of songs and start putting too much emphasis and too much weight on 3 songs. Yeah, you have to write hundreds. And, um, in the writing, there's a satisfaction. I think one of my— probably my favorite, um, part of writing— I used to love second verses because now the story is established to the listener to where now you have a little bit of freedom because everybody is on the same page from the story. Whereas at the beginning of the song, um, clarity is so important that you have to be very, very conscious of every, um, facet of making sure that everybody understands the characters in the songs. By the time you get to the second verse Everybody's kind of in the story. And I think I've always thought that there was a kind of a freedom of language that happens, uh, in that. And then actually finishing the song, uh, I have to say that getting the songs recorded was a huge thrill because someone has respected the song enough to record it, and that's great. And then of course, if that doesn't happen, when you, when, you know, when you did it the way I did it for a living, If that doesn't happen, you stop making a living. So then, you know, you have to have them recorded to keep writing. But it was actually the finishing of the songs that thrilled me, and no one, uh, could take that. That's something that inspired me and kept me going regardless of those disappointments, like you're just saying, because it does hurt. It stings when that happens.

Yeah, well, thank you for that. And I, and I, I love how you are reminding us, don't, don't just do a handful, keep writing, keep doing it, because because that's how you get better and better. Even authors of books will tell you that too. And, you know, the bloggers and people, you just get better the more you do it. And, and, uh, so I appreciate that good advice. Well, you know, before we run out of time today, just these last 5 minutes or so that we have together today, we need to talk about your, your new, uh, beautiful album, He Reminds Me. And, uh, it really is a, a great work. I love the instrumentation on it. Um, I love the, the stories that you tell in the song. And, and I have to say one of my favorites, um, on the album, which, uh, really, um, it has not only just a great, like, guitar groove, but it has one of my favorite lines, uh, the song 'What Are You Waiting For?' where it says, 'Jesus could come down here before I strike my next chord,' towards the end of the song. I just love—

I love that line.

And, uh, and it shows— showcases some of your great guitar work and things. But all of these songs, I, I love the stories they tell. I love the way that you were just talking about a moment ago, the characters. And it's a hard thing to do, to be able to put that kind of depth of character into stories when you're telling songs. So as we close out today in these last few minutes, we're going to— I want you to talk a little about the song On My Father's Side, which is actually currently charting right now. And at the time of recording, it's at number 33. And I'm grateful to hear that. But I'd love to hear you talk about that song. And then we're going to close by explain that today.

Okay, thank you. Uh, we read in John 1, uh, the Gospel of John, that, uh, the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. And we of course know that that's Jesus, um, temporarily coming off of the throne and into a human body. And I'm always just fascinated, and I never can get over it, the fact that Jesus was fully God and fully man in those 3 and a half years of his earthly ministry. And that, um, that dual existence of he needed to sleep and he got hungry and, um, of course felt the torture of the, of the crucifixion, but he also knew what, what everyone was thinking. And, you know, that experience on the Mount of Transfiguration where his glory shone through for just a minute or so— we don't know exactly how long, but it seemed to be a brief period. Um, that's always fascinated me. And when I was blessed, my family and I, to go to Israel with the Isaacs in 2018, and when you see the Garden of Gethsemane and you see the tomb where he resurrected, it even becomes more real. And so, uh, one, I was sitting in church and the pastor was preaching on a subject, it wasn't even that subject, and he kind of made a little sidebar and he was almost— it was almost a humorous statement where he said, you know, someone asked Jesus how old he was, and Jesus said, well, on my mother's side. And I just heard that and went into my songwriting trance, you know. Yeah, I didn't hear anything else the rest of that day. Um, uh, I— we got snowed in here in Nashville. That would have been February of '21. And, uh, ended up writing several days with one of my best friends and co-writers, Monty Criswell. And I told him the idea, and by then I had some lines on that. And we wrote that on my father's side. And I added that preacher, and I've never done this before, and it's not really protocol, or— but I added him on as a writer. I just felt the Lord told me to do that. I still don't quite— I can't explain it, but I was compelled to do that. But the whole song starts out with Jesus being 12 years old in the people and the Pharisees and teachers of the law, um, being impressed of how does he know this, where did he learn these things. And we know that he knew them because he was God in the flesh.

Yeah, well, it's a great song, and I'm so glad that it's already doing well just as it's been released just, just very recently. And, and as the new album has just come out, I just want to say congratulations on, on another your great work. And we're going to close out the show today by playing that song because I want everybody to hear it, On My Father's Side. But, uh, Tim Menzies, thank you so much for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Well, thank you, Rick, and thank you for having me, and, uh, thank you for all that you're doing for the kingdom.

The temple courts were crowded from the feast. I sat there surrounded by all the Pharisees. They said, "Who did you study under, son?" How old are you? Are you here alone? Tell us where you're from. Well, on my mother's side, I just turned 12 years old, born just down the road, down in Bethlehem. But on my on my Father's side. I'm older than time. I am the light from up on high, the perfect Lamb, the Great I Am, on my Father's side. When I knelt by that olive tree to pray, a part of me was tempted to turn and run away. But I came in the flesh to pay the price, to hang on the cross redeem the lost, and I knew it was time. But on my mother's side, I was sweating blood, praying, "Take this cup if there's another way." But on my father's side, I knew The plan we made was the only way the world could be saved, and through me you could be on my Father's side where the angels prayed, watching me hang there. Then I heard, oh, heaven shake and break out in praise. But on my mother's side, I felt each Roman nail. I could feel my body fail with every passing breath. But on my father's side. I rose from the grave. I've prepared a place. We can hardly wait for you to see your home with me on my Father's side.

"Aum, my father's son." Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. Music on the intro and outro The music of this show is from my single, "As I Walk These Halls," which can be streamed on any streaming platform, including Spotify. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, schedule me for a concert, a speaking engagement, a podcast, or even a book signing in your neighborhood. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. The more positive reviews we receive, the more visible this podcast will be. And now the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.