Episode 516: Jon Shabaglian - Symphony of Peace

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, songwriter, author, worship leader, an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene, and most recently, a hospital chaplain. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss things that are on my mind. The Voices in My Head. Music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more are all on the table as I discuss them here with friends and colleagues and sometimes just by myself, processing what I'm learning in the moment. Make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes, tweeting to me @RickLeeJames on Twitter, and by joining my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com. Where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you are interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the loudest voices in my head, which is ironic because he was such a quiet person. Also, if you do want to be notified about all of my latest releases, not just this podcast, sign up for email notifications on my Substack page found at rickleejames.substack.com. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so let's get to the latest episode of Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James. And I'm so grateful to all of you who have taken the time to listen today. My guest today on Voices in My Head is John Sheboglian. John is a renowned recording artist, songwriter, worship leader, and pastor with a career spanning over two decades. He has released 8 albums and toured globally as a music missionary. John is also the founder of Grace Note, a program providing music and art lessons to under-resourced children in California. He is the creator of Psalmist Mission, a nonprofit that organizes annual intensives for worship leaders and kingdom artists worldwide. In 2015, John participated in a historic reconciliation gathering in Istanbul, Turkey, commemorating the 100-year anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. He composed and recorded "Reconciliation Song" featuring Turkish violinist Orhan Çelebi, which was featured in the documentary Journey to Redemption. His latest single, Symphony of Peace, produced by Sam Hart, is a deeply personal track. It includes guest artist Timmy Tope and features Psalmist Mission. Inspired by a season of personal and global suffering, Symphony of Peace encourages listeners to become agents of reconciliation in a divided world. There's so much to talk about today, and I'm so glad to welcome to the show John Shabaglian, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Oh, Rick, you're so kind, man. Uh, and it's kind of just humbling to hear kind of the overview, the little, the faith saga that God's done over the years. So man, thanks so much for having me. It's a privilege.

Well, it is a real honor for me too. And as I've been reading, and honestly, I had to kind of pick and choose parts from your bio because there's just so much that God has blessed you to be involved with over the years, and so many interesting ways that I feel like we could take the conversation today. But something that really stood out to me. And I wonder if we could just kind of make this the starting point of our conversation today. In the intro, I talked about the reconciliation, the time that you participated in, in Istanbul, Turkey. And there's a story behind that involving your Armenian grandparents who were rescued by German Mennonite missionaries. And they escaped that genocide during World War I. Could you just— we just start there today? What a fascinating story and really an amazing story of God's grace and rescue in that time. I'd kind of love to hear kind of your story through them and kind of what happened. So feel free to share whatever you'd like, but I'd really love to hear more.

Well, Rick, you're kind, and honestly, you're alluding to stuff that, like, if I had 100 lifetimes, I never could have put myself in that position, you know. And, um, these stories are, are, are, are really speak of the, the magnitude of God's infinite ability to turn the nastiest of human mankind's fallenness into beauty. You, when you, when you got, when you got half of a population that is, you know, martyred and murdered in a genocide, 1.5 million of our people were exterminated because they were Armenian. And my own grandparents fled for their lives. My great-grandfather was actually taken about a death march and shot just because he was Armenian. And yet you have, you have incredible atrocities, but that you also have our— like, as Armenian, um, you have— I have 1,700 years of Christianity in my bloodline, man. I mean, that's insane, you know. I, I remember years later in this, in this reconciliation movement that we'll talk about, that you alluded to, um, uh, God kept sending me back to the opposite country, to Turkey, you know, like, you know, and then Finally, the third year of this reconciliation movement, he finally sent me to Armenia. And I remember stepping into a chapel that was built, a church that was built in 800 AD.

Hmm.

Wow.

800 AD, man. I mean, America founded in 1776. You could just do the math, you know? Yeah. And it was me, Jesus, and Cold Rock. And I remember saying, Father, is this part of the reason you called me? You know why I get melodies in the middle of the night and I don't know why? Because of my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents' faithfulness to the cross? Like, what are we even talking about right now, you know? And it puts us in such a sobriety of— one of the downsides of America is we are so new, and we have experienced amazing blessing. And so sometimes with youthfulness comes a lack of awareness that you inherited an amazing amount of grace, right? And especially for me with these two profound bloodlines, half Armenian, half German Mennonite, my— I have the whole music ministry. And my grandfather was Mennonite church planter and started like 5 churches and music all the side. I mean, Mennonites sing everywhere they go. And, um, and in the, and, and in the fullness of time, I got invited by Mennonite missionaries to help reconcile with Turks and Armenians on the 100-year of the Armenian Genocide as the worship leader of this historic gathering. Like, man, it's not even possible. You can't On one side, you can't even book that gig, and on the other side, you wouldn't want to because it's terrifying. I literally wasn't sure if I would come back to my family. And yet on the other side, God in his kindness— I kind of call it my setup story, God's setup story, because if you don't know, you probably notice this, Rick, God doesn't always ask your permission when he's inviting you into adventures.

You know what I'm saying? True. Yes.

And so, uh, the, uh, uninvited adventures, uh, was what I was stepping into. And, uh, 4 years for this historic invitation in 2015 on the 100-year genocide anniversary. God set me up. I was outside these artist conferences outside of Nashville called Recreate, and in this really vulnerable worship time, you know, the Lord kind of pulled down all my barriers, you know what I mean? I typically am leading. I wasn't leading. I happened to sit catty-corner to this violist. He had a musical need. It was no big deal, so I just kind of ran back to the sound console, got him taken care of. We were sitting next to each other, in this presentation. There was an amazing band out of Austin, Texas, but by not leading, I'm just a part. This band's amazing. My walls are coming down. The Spirit of the Lord's in the process. By the end, I high-fived this guy because we kind of connected because he had a tech need and just hooked him up. And so I high-fived him. I gave him a hug. I think I called him Brother So-and-so. And I'm like, hey, man, what's your name? And he said, my name's Orhan. And I'm like, wow, man, my name's John. And I don't know why I asked. I said, what ethnicity are you, Orhan? And after I'd hugged him, he called— he said, "I'm Turkish." Wow. And I just froze. And I was like, "Uh, I'm Armenian." And I later went home. You know, some people journal, write, and songwriters, we just write songs. So I just kind of puked out this song called "Reconciliation Song." And I remember processing it, and I tracked it on my studio, the little demo, and I sent it over to like my new, I guess, Turkish friend. I don't even know how to categorize that, right? Because if, to give context, it would literally be like a Black and a Ku Klux Klan member hanging out and, you know, having coffee and writing music together. It just doesn't happen, right?

Yeah.

But here's the deal, as you know, 2 Corinthians 5 talks about we've been given the ministry of reconciliation. As if Christ is making his appeal through us. So what I'm getting sucked up in now is a story that is so far bigger than me. This, this interview should not be about John, who's so strategic and he put himself in an amazing spot. This is literally about what God can do in your most fragile, vulnerable spot if you try to not let go of his, his, his, his, like, shirt. You know, like that woman, you know, she said, if I can just touch the hem of his garment be okay if you just cling on and don't say no. And I remember that— there's a line in that song, a reconciliation song. I remember saying, um, and I was speaking about the moment when I met Orhan. I said, my flesh wants to run, but my spirit's drawn in to reconciliation and a message for the nations. Wow. Well, literally 4 years later, I got asked to, to be the worship leader on the 100-year genocide anniversary. And the way God's hand would do Orhan happened to be a world-class violinist. He was, you know, sponsored by a company. His viola was insured for like €600,000. Like, this is like the top— this is virtuoso at the highest level. And he ends up touring too much 4 years later, and the American consulate says, uh, we're not gonna let you back in on your visa if you tour that much. He's stuck back home with mom and dad in Istanbul, Turkey, and for the second time in my life, I meet Orhan face to face in Istanbul, and we ended up sharing our song and story at the conclusion of this 3-day historic reconciliation gathering in front of Turks, Armenians, and Kurds. It's just— you can't write it unless the Lord is going to take a psalmist calling. And that's part of the reason I have a passion in training up other psalmists now. Um, who are on mission, not to get important, not to get streams or, or like, you know, or followed on Instagram, but to be on mission with God, right? A musician for God, right? Um, and how they can bring shalom even to the darkest of places. I have seen the impossible, Rick, and where music and the Spirit of God does things that just cannot happen. I love music. And I have done music for myself. Now that I've experienced doing music with God, I— it's like 2 2 12, and I can't even imagine downgrading to just being an artist for myself anymore.

Yeah, amazing story.

Yeah.

And, and I— if you don't mind, I just want to point out for people who might not have heard it, I was listening to Reconciliation Song again this morning and, and just going through some of the lyrics, and I love the emphasis, uh, and it means even more hearing this story, but The grace that was given to me is writing forgiveness's song. And I just think that's a powerful way to say that. And it says, and I am just singing along. I love that. And I really love the emphasis in, in the middle of the song where I choose to forgive you and your fathers and their fathers. And then going beyond that, the emphasis, I choose to bless you and your fathers and their fathers. I just think that's a It's, it's really some creative and wonderful writing, for one thing. And then to think of the idea of not just offering forgiveness, but then offering a blessing as well. You know, it seems like, who but God could take relationships that are, that are so far gone, you know, right, right, exactly, create something new and grow this new seed. But what a beautiful line, especially that grace was grace that was given to me is writing forgiveness's song, and I'm just singing along. And I, and I I think the way that you have expressed yourself today is, in a sense, God is, is writing your story, and, and you're sort of along for the ride on it, you know. You're living it out as God does it. And so I'm, I'm grateful for that. And I, and so I want to encourage everybody to, you know, as we're about to talk about this new single that you've released, but I, I want to encourage people also to go back now that they've heard the story, uh, wherever they stream music, whether it be Spotify or Apple or just any of the streaming, um, to look up the, the Reconciliation song by John, because it's, it's a really good one that's worth your time too. But you know, while we're talking—

Thank you, bro, so much.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, my pleasure.

When you're sharing, you know, I, uh, you know, I know we're transitioning, but when you're sharing that experience just and hearing those words again, I was thinking about the moment that you— Spotify can never capture, um, but I remember You reading those words back to me brought me back to that concluding celebration, and I remember singing "I choose to bless you and your fathers and their fathers" in Turkey as an Armenian. And the building we happened to sing in at the concluding celebration happened to be the very first evangelical church ever built in the world.

Wow.

Again, you can't make that. I didn't put that down. I mean, it's not— and the history, they were all— the place was filled with former enemies that the only place they could have met was at the cross. And I just remember all these, and we're singing, and this might be almost too much information, I literally was physically shaking. I mean, I could almost— I'm trying to keep it together, processing it right now. And Orhan came up to me afterwards. Like, we're literally ministering this together, and I'm saying, "I choose to bless you," and I'm singing it over former enemies in a foreign land where my grandparents fled for their lives. And then Orhan comes over to me, and he just hugs me while we're finishing this. And I'm just— I don't even know how to say it. Like, I physically can't stop shaking. And I don't even know, but I will tell you, and I could sense the exhortation in your heart to our listeners there, I feel like I have gotten a front row seat to what God can do in the midst of the most vilest of loss. And it's not just God. It is our willingness to participate may allow us to literally cause the darkness to lose and light and healing and the gospel to advance. Our participation is what I have been roped into when you said, like, I'm just singing along. I haven't thought of that lyric in a long time, but it really, it really is true. And I would encourage us, those listeners out there, you might be in the middle of an incredible relational divide. You might, you might have been wounded by a boss or even a pastor. You might, you might have a, a, a marriage that is— you've been wounded by, or parents or father relationship. Your God's capacity to bring, inject impossible healing. And I can say impossible because I've seen impossible, impossible healing. But he wants to invite you in that, to be that, as we'll talk about, a symphony of peace even in the middle of the most darkest of sorrow. I'm a testimony to say I'm alive to tell the story. I have seen God do the impossible, and I don't— I didn't walk it out exemplary. I was just willing to not say no and try with God.

Wow.

Well, thank you for that. And I, and I could not have asked for a better transition going into, uh, your, your newest song that I want to talk about today, Symphony of Peace. Um, now I know that you have said that this song was inspired as a healing prayer following a season of pain and suffering in your own life and, and in the world at large. So what can you tell us about the origin of this new single? I'd love to hear more.

Yeah, you know what? I tell you what, it's interesting painting the story, connecting it with Reconciliation Song, because honestly, I feel like I am getting anthems from God that were invested from generations, and I'm literally just still singing along. This is not strategy, though I am strategic. God gave us a song I wrote with Aaron Schust and a couple other amazing producers and Sam Hart called "Shalom" that we ended up birthing in the middle of the racial riots in 2020. And we took our Psalmist and multiple gospel ensembles, and we sang and did a music video together standing in the middle of sorrow. And then I got "Symphony of Peace" standing with a Nigerian as an Armenian, and in the middle of an incredibly costly season.

This is—

this I feel, but we've talked about the Armenian side, but we haven't talked much about the Mennonite side. The Mennonites carry a mantle of peacemaking. That is their thing. And I can say not just they, but we, because I don't feel like I've even had much of an opinion in the matter. I'm like, God, why do I keep writing all these songs about reconciliation and healing? I could be talking about all kinds of things, but when you look at a 20-year brushstroke, how come this Mennonite peacemaking mantle keeps being injected into this psalmist thing and have this anchor of reconciliation, even with a genocide story. I mean, my own grandmother was rescued by Mennonite missionaries. My Armenian grandmother was rescued by Mennonite missionaries. And I didn't even know that till it was 2016. I was a year into this reconciliation work. You can't write that stuff. You can only— here's what I'll say. It's just, if God intends to do a work and he finds somebody he can trust down here, then he will— he may bring you to your most, um, malleable place, which is not necessarily, um, strategic. It's just fragile enough for him to inject through. And that in a season really in my family where, where we had never lost more last year, um, and it even is connected to— I don't know why my life feels like it's a discography that is my biography, because like, um 2 years before Symphony of Peace, you know, roughly, God had given me a record and a message that, I mean, he fell on me on this plane flight, and the theme was called "Bow Everything." I carried that theme for 2 years. The psalmists we disciple and train and mentor in California, we got to get them to sing as the choir on that song and that record. I knew it was God, but I didn't know it was a heads up for me And 2 years after carrying that, the Lord required everything in our family, um, and it was incredibly costly. And it was in that season that Symphony of Peace was birthed. And so, you know, again, another story— like, you can't even write that. I remember when he was just putting our life back together at the end of last year, uh, Timo Tape, who I did the track with, is a really gifted recording artist. He calls me, he's like, hey bro, we had just tracked his vocals, right? And, uh, and he said, and my life's like, I feel like a train wreck, you know? And he's like, he's like, hey bro, um, I just got signed with Capitol Publishing. I'm like, wait, what? He's like, yeah, I've never been signed before like this, but it's kind of crazy. And it was like the Lord was just putting things like, what is happening? And then what's, again, what's Precious, uh, Symphony of Peace is literally, um, we took 4 years of, of a worship cohort that we do of discipling musicians and worship leaders in California with Psalmist Mission, and we put them as the choir on the song. But in the middle of the biggest loss of a year in our family, uh, God also did something really special, and he winked at me in a very personal way while, while I was hurting. And my daughter's name is Symphony, and in the middle of the loss For the very first time, not only did God put my daughter's name in a song, my daughter is actually in that choir with the psalmist that we mentored on Symphony of Peace. So God was writing a symphony of peace even in the middle of loss.

Wow, I love that story. But, and, and to think that your daughter's name, uh, goes right along with it. Symphony of Peace. What a beautiful story. And I want to encourage everyone listening today to Voices in My Head. As I always say on the show, as long as the technology works the way that it's supposed to, as you're listening to this podcast today, you should be able to simply go to the show notes and click on a link, and it should take you right to these songs that we're talking about today. And, and you can learn more about John and, and more than, more than we can even fill up in, in the short time we have in a podcast visit today. But I think everybody listening, John, can not only hear your heart, but I think everybody listening has to be amazed at the goodness of God and the way that God blesses. And, you know, to use the scriptural reference of he makes beauty from ashes. And I just see that in your story again and again, not just with the music that you make, but with the opportunities that God has given you, and that you said yes to. So it's exciting. And to hear about Psalmist Mission. And, and I know we could go on and on about all the, the different ministries that you're a part of, but I love that you are not just making music, but that you are investing your life in younger lives and, and helping others to be— I love that you don't just say worship leaders or songwriters, but you call yourself a psalmist, and you're calling people to, to become psalmists in that way. And So yeah, these are just beautiful things.

Well, you're so kind, bro. And I tell you what, I would just speak even to that for those who are listening. So much of this story and so many of our stories, as TobyMac would say, pain comes with living. And sometimes we would assume if I could only insulate my life with, you know, love from the mob, or the— what we would call the crowd, um, or, or, uh, provision or whatever, then I'll be okay. And the reality is pain comes with living. But God uses that story. And part of the reason I had this burden to be— to raise up other psalmists— I wouldn't have even used that word like 5 years ago or before, but it's now— it's been something that is crystallized. Psalmist Mission literally became what crystallized God— I didn't— something I was carrying that I didn't know for 20 years. And I feel like it was a— it was the only word that God put in my head when I had these kingdom philanthropists like kick me out of the nest, say, dude, you better start creating some infrastructure around your life, you know. And the precious thing is, um, um, and I want to speak to the father piece because I didn't have what I would call a psalmist father, to be honest. And many artists, I think if we're honest, we look around, I'm like, where's the like 55-year-old amazing musician who's like songwriter fears God, still has the same wife, and doesn't have his hand in like dark cookie jars when nobody's looking, you know what I mean? I was like, where is that guy, you know? And then God's done some precious things too, but for a lot of years I had a real strained relationship with either what I grew up with my family that's straight-brained, and my own father. And so, and then, and then when you're serving in ministry, I mean, I had— I've had Saul throw spears at me, you know, and you're ducking, and you know, in that kind of spiritual father role. And so to be honest, my soul was shook up like a soda can when it came on the father piece. And yet And that— God took the void of not having that and it made me hungry in my late teens, early 20s, 30s, and now early 40s to want to pour in and raise up others. I was thinking about legacy way before my 78-year-old hospital visit, you know, when I'm thinking about, did my life count? And I just want to encourage you, for those of you who might feel like I'm on the edge or, you know what? Life, like, like, you know, God ditched me or life ditched me, and, and there I'm just going to react out of my pain. I want to encourage you, you actually may be incredibly poised for your calling. God, um, I remember it on my Bible, um, I remember it landing in 2 Corinthians 6 where he said, I will be a father to you and you will be, uh, and you'll be my children, my sons and daughters. And I couldn't believe that God would be my dad. And I remember like circling all of that, you know, and it was just so loud me. But God took the void of not having that psalmist father guide and, um, gave me a hunger to pour into those around me. And, and now I just feel like, man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna— I want to be a missional psalmist. And if that gets me important or not, whatever, God just take care of my family, you know what I mean? But the special thing is I get to serve my generation before I'm dead. And part of being faithful in that Whoever you are, if you're a gifted artisan, if you're a worship leader, I exhort you before God. Part of the reason Moses was amazing is because there was a Joshua. It almost had nothing to do with Moses. And I see so much of us, because of our human need really for identity and affirmation, those of us who may have a unique call on our life, we spend so much time trying to focus on us doing something that matters, we literally may have chopped off the space, the road for Joshua to grab the baton and run after we're dead. See, God paints in generational brushstrokes, and, and we're thinking in one little, one little slice. And so I— that, and that's what's been me. And now we're seeing that the Psalmist Mission conversation is going to an expanded region. We've created a model— I didn't mean to— in California. The Psalmist family is almost 90 across California, worship leading in more churches than I can almost even count. But I've seen how that model can serve different regions. So if you're a leader, a worship leader Man, I want to— I'd love to partner with diverse leaders, kindred who are in my community and raise up the future. Hit us up at psalmistmission.org or info@psalmistmission.org. We'd love to talk to you. This is bigger than a person. But the precious thing even about Symphony of Peace, it's a song that I think that God literally birthed in the fire. And he was literally writing a symphony while in the middle of the pain. And yet it actually speaks of a bigger conversation, which is of raising up and discipling more trustworthy psalmists who are on mission. So that's what blesses my heart. This— the music has now opened up doors for a greater work, really, is before we're dead, did we serve our generation and make sure Joshua had the baton? That's what I want to do till I'm dead. And if I could inspire a bunch of other gifted artisans to think that way, um, that would be a life well lived.

And again, I just want to point out too, I love the lyrics that you brought for Symphony of Peace. We are your people, we're your instruments of peace when playing the right chords. But Lord, we've traded the choir of gatherings for solos of discord. And I just think like, again, just like the other song we talked about today, Reconciliation Song, the lyrics put you right in the mindset of where we need to be, that so often we are making these chords of discord rather than, than the, the right chords that God's giving us to play. Well, and just one last thought for me, and, and I know we're, we're getting close on our time today, at least what I can do today. I, if I had the time, I'd talk to you all day long, John, but we'll have to do part 2. Yeah, that's right. But, um, I was just thinking as you were talking, and, and especially about training up other psalmists. And the Lord has blessed me over this last year doing something again I never thought I would be doing. I've been working as a hospital chaplain and in a residency program.

I heard that. I'd love to hear more about it.

Yeah, it's, it's really been some— it's just been an amazing ministry. It's totally transformed the way I even look at ministry.

And I—

something I never had on my radar. And again, I wouldn't have written this story for me, but God had it for me. And what's been interesting, the connection that I hear between what you're saying and what I do, because I work at a teaching hospital, and I see every day the way the students are coming in to learn from those around them, you know, so whether they be doctors, whether they be nurses, whether they be chaplain residents like me who are taking in from people who have done this day after day, some of them year after year after year. There's a real, really good parallel that I think those of us who serve in churches need to take note of how intentional that is, that we actually take time not just to do as good a job as we can, which is wonderful. We need to do that. Nobody wants a sloppy doctor or a nurse. Nobody wants a bad worship leader. But it's, it's so much, so important that, you know, if that— if we didn't have those teachers around to help the next ones also become that and then learn to pass that down, uh, what you're talking about with Psalmist Mission, I see as sort of that, uh, you know, you're kind of the worship leader teaching hospital when it comes to a place like, you know, let me not just do it, but let me show of how we can do this together. So I think that's a beautiful part of the ministry that you're offering, not just presenting the music that God is birthing in you, but helping it to be brought forth out of others, and especially the younger generation where there's so much life. So, well, you're aware—

your awareness is right on, man. And, um, I, you know, that hospital piece is so true. I, I, uh, I have seen the And the artisan, it is such a sacred piece of the body of Christ. We got architects and engineers, those guys are amazing. You spreadsheet people blow my mind. I think it's amazing as an artist, you know, we love you deeply, we need you. But I've noticed flowers are not only breathtaking, but they are supposed to be breathtaking. The downside, I see a lot of people reaching down and grabbing flowers and ripping them out of the ground. Ground, and they said, this is my flower. And instantly, when the flower is ripped out of the ground, it's already starting to die. Now, that flower may make— may serve your church for 18 months, 2 years, 3 years. But if you yank it out of the ground and say, it's my flower, and say, come to my church, or check out my— your record label too, a church could do it, we— all kinds of institutions could do it— check out my flower, the flower is already dying. But I say it was destined to bloom. And I say instead of yanking out of the ground, what if we nurtured the flower? We say, how do we keep this flower the healthiest it possibly can be? Let's get it some Kingdom Miracle-Gro. Let's get us some scripture. Let's get us some prayer and accountability. Let's say— let's, let's tell the flower, you're not just awesome because of your petals, you're awesome because God made you valuable, right? That flower will bloom for generations. And it will be soli Dei gloria, like Bach used to sign all of his pieces, to the glory of God alone. And that's what I say. If we make that fundamental shift, nurturing the flower instead of ripping out of the ground, I believe we will see the hand of God in amazing ways.

Amen. Amen. I agree with you. Well, I think that's a good place for us to kind of stop our conversation today. And so everybody listening, once again, I just want to encourage you, uh, check out John Shabazz Coughlin's music, and you can find it everywhere that music is streamed. And I'm doing my best to make it easy for you as you're listening to this podcast. Just go to the show notes, and hopefully you'll be able to— if the technology works, I can't promise, but you know, from day to day, hopefully it will. But look up these songs, listen to them. Symphony of Peace is the newest single from John, and I'm so glad to be able to have had this conversation this week. So as I say to my guests each week, I'm so proud to get to say it to you, John Shabaglian. Thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Wow, thanks so much, Rick. It's been a pleasure, man. Blessings to you, bro.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. Music on the intro and outro of this show is from my single As I Walk These Halls, which can be streamed on any streaming platform, including Spotify. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, schedule me for a concert, a speaking engagement, a podcast, or even a book signing in your neighborhood. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. The more positive reviews we receive, the more visible this podcast will be. And now the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.