Episode 533 - Karen Kingsbury

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so thankful for all of you who are listening today. In her new book, Just Once, the number one New York Times bestselling author Karen Kingsbury brings a redemptive, breathtaking World War II love story timed to the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Just Once is a sweeping and unforgettable World War II love story about a young female spy torn between two brothers. Part romance, part historical text, and part Christian fiction, Kingsbury tells the story of two average people from Bloomington, Indiana, who do extraordinary things together and apart during an extraordinary time. The author Karen Kingsbury is here with us today, and I'm so grateful she has stopped by. Karen, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Well, thank you so much. It's great to be with you today.

Well, I'm so excited to be able to speak with you. Really enjoyed the new book, Just Once. And we're also going to be talking today a little bit about a new movie that you have coming out that's based on one of your books. So just congratulations all around on so many amazing things happening. So well done.

Thank you so much. God is good. I just, I just sit back sometimes and think, how in the world? And it's just him alone.

So, well, Karen, in the back of your new book, Just Once, there are some questions that are actually addressed to the readers of the book once they've finished it. And there are a couple of them that I thought, you know, it might be interesting to actually kind of turn the questions around and ask you today, because I I know you did a great amount of research. When I finished reading the book, I actually thought, was that a true story? And then I, I read kind of your afterword about the book and the research you had done. Um, it flows so well, like it could be a real story that happened in anyone's family. So I wanted to ask you, first of all, kind of like one of the questions in the back of your book, what did you learn about World War II while writing this book, Just Once?

You know, I, of course, you know, we know about World War II and we've— I've seen movies about World War II, but I feel like I learned that the people of that time are really not that different from the people of today. They gathered around a radio. We have way too much information, you know, through internet, television, phones, whatever. But the sense of camaraderie, fear, concern, you know, the opinions that ran high in both directions of whether we should or shouldn't join the war. So I learned that it was very much a deep human experience, first of all. And then obviously from there it became something that we have never seen. We never had seen before or since in terms of the loss of life, just the people signing up and going immediately to defend their country and to defend these other countries. So it was, it was a lot. I learned about the humanity of it and the Holocaust as well. I, of course, knew about that, but didn't know about it at the way that I came to know and the persecution of the Jewish people and just how biblical and historical and repeatedly so obviously we see today. So yeah, it was, it became a very deep experience for me.

Well, thank you for that. And I know we're always learning new things. And you talked about the information and the way that they received it versus the way that we receive it today. Just, it's, it's really hard sometimes to even put yourself back in that situation. And yet the similarities between them and us right down to what we're seeing in Jerusalem, Jerusalem and Israel right now today. Well, this actually leads me to the second question, because the book starts I think it's right around 1981, if memory serves, or somewhere in that time. And the book also deals with Alzheimer's disease, which has, I'm sure, affected many of our listeners. We all seem to have a family member or maybe several family members that have been affected at some point. And I was curious as well, similar to the question in the back of your book asking readers what they had learned, I wonder if you had learned anything that you didn't know in the research of this book about Alzheimer's disease.

One, yeah, one thing for sure that I didn't know and that I learned was that red is the last color. I just found that so poetic, and I looked deeper into that idea, and it's really true that that's how the brain, our minds, the way that God made us, red is the last color. And isn't that just so interesting? Red being the color of the blood of Christ, or red being the color that we use at Christmas time. It's a color that represents love. And so when Hank frames pictures, around the house in red. It's his doing his best to try to keep those memories alive for Ervil as long as he can. And I just think, I just thought it was poetic and beautiful, and that God doesn't, he just, there's so much beauty in poetry and just wonder in the way that God created us. And a lot of times we just need to look deeper to see it.

Well, that's really a beautiful thought. And to think of the ways, as you said, that Hank does all he can to preserve those memories. And I don't know that we often think about the way that Alzheimer's affects entire families, not just the person who's going through it. And you do such an amazing job in the way that you describe all that they're going through, not only in the present circumstance, but then whenever they take the opportunity to start recording her story and take you back to the time when they first met as kids and all through the story. And as I was reading it, I thought, in my opinion anyway, your book deals with battles on several fronts, not only the battle that we have in World War II, as the memories are recounted, we have this battle of Alzheimer's that's going on, that is just as real, maybe not in the same way, but, but in different ways. There are these battles that are happening in people's lives, all the complicated emotions that are going on with that. And then there's— I think this also is a book in some ways, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like there's also battles with regrets. That are going on throughout the story of their life, no matter when they were young, things that are happening now. And I just wonder, was there something in your own life and in your own heart— we all carry these regrets— what was it that kind of hit you in the heart that made you want to write about a story with all these different battles that we're facing?

Well, you know, and I think one of the other battles that's really happening is fear, for sure, for Ervil too, um, that she, when she hears the radio again, like, we are inundated with information today. But back then, you could be living your life and having a pretty— I mean, if you look outside, a lot of times, if you take what you have, even today, we take the information we have and what we know is actually happening all over the world, or just— there's so much news, there's so much information that comes at us. If you just shut it down and step outside and look, like, it's beautiful and the sky is blue and there's— we have people who love us and people that we love. And you look at all of that and you think, I think God intended us to live more in our actual world than in the world that's so removed from us, but also so much evil and sadness going on. So Ervil got just little drips of it through the radio. But when she would hear it and when the conversation would turn to the war, then she would have a panic attack. Like, she would literally— her heart rate would just start racing and she would have just clammy skin and she'd have to excuse herself and look in the mirror and do anything she could to calm herself down. And she came to realize that the only weapon that she could have that would, that would actually stand against the fear and bring peace was scripture. So when she later agrees to be a spy, I mean, that's a massive 180 for her from being terrified to hear something on the radio and then being willing to go get on a battleship and be a codebreaker and pretend to be a nurse while she's taking secrets behind enemy lines. Like, that's a huge shift. And the only weapon she could take into war with her was scripture. So that battle as well. And I think in terms of regret, you know, my life, thankfully, I really don't have a lot of regrets. I do, I do, you know, I write, I wrote a children's book called Let Me Hold You Longer, and it goes viral every year around college, you know, send-off time or when kids are graduating. And it's just, it goes through the life of a child and about how if I'd known it was your last, wouldn't I have held on longer if I'd known? And so my hope is people just don't have regrets, that you live it today. Say the thing you wanted to say today. And that was a situation with Irvil that she wished she would have said something to Hank and that she would have been more clear about her feelings. So, yeah, I think for all of us, just realizing that, say what you need to say today.

Yeah. What wonderful advice. Say what you need to say now. I work as a chaplain in a hospital locally. And, uh, kind of part-time right now. And that's actually one thing that we try to encourage patients to say what you need to say right away. And sometimes it's really a part of our healing in order to be able to release some of those things. So I appreciate the way that you bring that out in your writing for sure. And I want to go just a little bit deeper into Ervil's story. I, I know there's Ervil and Hank and Hank's brother and so many different characters throughout, but I kind of see this as Ervil's story, you know, the just from the beginning to end. And I thought it was so interesting the way that you wrote about her as a spy, and you sort of told, uh, to me what feels like a more realistic depiction of spycraft and what it would be. We often think of James Bond or Mission: Impossible or things like that that are going on, but your depiction actually feels much more grounded in a way that I think would actually happen. So I, I wonder what kind of research you might have gone through in order to understand a little bit more about, uh, the, the practice of spying during World War II in order to bring Ervil's story to That was one of the most enjoyable parts of research, was to go, you know, watch documentaries.

I read some books and listened to some former OSS members of the Office of Strategic Services, which was the initial agency with our federal government that then became the CIA. So started off as the OSS, and I— there were people who, you know, documented their time 20 or 30 years ago when they were still able to do so. And I listened to some of their firsthand accounts as well. You know, some of the people who were spies, especially the women, did things that, you know, they, they allowed themselves to be kind of even taken advantage of for the sake of winning over secrets and helping to win the war. Ervil wasn't in that position, and I didn't want to write about that. But that's true. I mean, the truth is people just said, here I am, whatever it takes to help my country and to save to save lives and get this war finished, people were willing to do that. So the research was— I mean, I found myself, you know, tears in my eyes listening to some of these stories of courage and bravery. I love that the way that they were discovered oftentimes was through some special skill. Sometimes it was an entertainer. I mean, there are people who are entertainers that went over and under the guise of entertaining troops but who are actually spies. So, you know, it just had to do with The government was looking for people who could get away with it, and they had to be in, in many cases really brilliant at math, and that was Ervil.

Yeah, well, remarkable. And I think that the character you created in Ervil is a fitting tribute to those many people who, who did that kind of work and who I'm sure still do it today. And it was fascinating to read about all that she went through. Well, I, I want to first of all, just before we switch gears a little bit, to talk about your new movie that's coming up soon. I just— to all the people who are listening today, uh, Just Once is an excellent book. By the time that this podcast comes out, the book will have been out for about a day, I think. So, uh, if, uh, you have not had a chance to read Just Once, uh, like I have, I just want to encourage all of our listeners, uh, it's worth your time, especially if you enjoy that era of World War II. I liken it a little bit to, uh, also I've been watching reruns of The Waltons lately, and it sort of takes place in a similar time period as far as if you want understand more of the technology and things as far as gathering around the radio and hearing different things. It feels very much a part of that era. So it was a good time to be rewatching while I was reading the book at that time.

Perfect.

But, but we do have this exciting— talk about new media— that's coming out, this exciting new movie for you. And I just, again, congratulations. Uh, you wrote a book called Someone Like You, and in April of next year, 2024, it's going to be a major motion picture. And I'd just love for you to, to take take some time and tell us about that because that's big, exciting news.

Yeah. So I mean, we've been really blessed that there have been many movies and TV shows that have been made based on my books. And always I thought, you know, I kind of always wanted to make a movie, but that's— it's such a big thing. And I didn't, you know, I don't know how to use a camera. What does that mean, make a movie? And so I was happy to have other people make them, like, okay, you can make one. And 4 Hallmark movies and whatnot. But the thing is, they always— they did a beautiful job, but they never quite captured the heart and the message and the kind of the depth of what I was doing. And so we did a series. So Tyler grew up, our oldest son, and became a great screenwriter, and he studied directing in college. Now, you know, he's 30. And so we said— we talked— he and I talked about doing a TV series, and we did A Thousand Tomorrows based on my books. And that was on Pureflix this year. It did very well, but we didn't get to make the movie. He didn't direct it. We didn't have sets or any of that. So it was at that point in the spring last year, in the spring, when my husband just looked at me and he said, Karen, if we have to sell everything, we need to make our own movie. It's like we don't want to be at the other end of this journey. And we love— one of our favorite things to do with money is give it away. But we had some savings and it was like, well, if we're going to do this, to make a low-budget movie, we're going to have to use it all. And no financial person would advise that. That was like the crazy thing to do. But we thought the Lord was leading, and so we had to say yes. And so we went ahead and jumped and we decided to pray every day for wisdom and favor. And during our pre-production, we ended up, you know, moving forward. Tyler and I wrote the script. We hired cast and crew, brought them to our house for the pre-production of about 2 months' time. And I did a small— just a brief devotion every morning.. And not everybody was a believer, but I focused on just letting them know how much God loved them. And then we moved on into filming, and Tyler was directing. 25 days we shot the movie, and now it's in its final— like, it's picture locked and final pieces. In fact, this week we get to go into the studio because Michael W. Smith's son, Tyler Smith, he is the one who has done our score, and it is is absolutely breathtaking. It is so beautiful. We get to go into the studio and we get to hear the live orchestrations being recorded for the score. So now this side of the journey, I do understand filmmaking. I love it. It's the biggest challenge that I've ever had, but my whole family has worked together on it to make it possible. And yeah, we get to, um, we're working with Fathom. Fathom used to just do events. Now they do distribution. So it'll be a full distribution across the entire country, Canada as well, and it'll be in theaters everywhere opening on April 2nd.

Well, that's so exciting and, and even more of a blessing to know that the family connections and that you were able to do this one yourself. That's awesome. So congratulations. We will definitely look forward to, to seeing that one when it comes out in, uh, April. So everybody will be watching for that. Now I just want to check in on you real quick, because the listeners won't know this, but Karen's not feeling super good today. So I've got about 4 questions. And I just want to check in with you and make sure you're still doing okay.

I'm doing great. Thank you for asking.

Okay, you bet. Well, we have some very excited listeners who couldn't wait to send in some questions. So I narrowed it down to 4 questions, if that's all right, that people who are fans of yours, and they just wanted to ask some questions about your books and your writing and you. So we're just going to do those we close out our conversation together today. And the first one is from Sandy, and she asked this question: Why did you pick Bloomington, Indiana for the Baxter family stories?

That's a great question. So back then you couldn't research on the internet, so I looked at the map and I thought what— I wanted a place that wasn't too north or too south or too east or too west. I wanted it to be Middle America with a lake and a college, a university. Um, I wanted there to be a sort of downtown area but also farmlands, and it just seemed like everybody's kind of town. So we ended up taking a trip there, uh, explored it, and it was perfect. And there was Bloomington, right?

Excellent answer. Well, our next question is, uh, from Carol, and Carol asks, how do you come up with your characters and storylines?

Well, Carol, I have to tell you, it is God and God alone, because something will move me, you know, and I feel like I'm a detective of the emotions in many ways. So if something catches my spirit, or, and I feel tears gather in my eyes, I kind of look more deeply at that thing or person or conversation and think, hmm, what is that? And then I just lean into what God's saying, and he puts a movie in my heart, like he puts it so clearly in my head that honestly, I feel like the first writer— I feel like the first reader as I'm writing. So I'll be writing and I'm just— I feel like I'm dictating off this movie in my head. I see it and it's very real. I never feel like I'm making it up. So yeah, so the ideas kind of just come from life. And, you know, every book was spurred by something, a song, you know. But then from there, the Lord gives me all the details, all the characters, to where they're so real that I'm crying. Like when I wrote about Irvil as an Alzheimer's patient years ago as part of The Baxters, this, the same Herbal. When she passed away, I was crying at my laptop, like, that was so real to me. And my husband came in like, what happened? And I said, you know, Herbal died. And he said, is that somebody we know from church or from school? Like, he's still trying to figure it out, like, how does she live with all those people in her head?

Well, no, and that, that makes a lot of sense because I've, I've heard a lot of authors say that they're, they're waiting to see where their characters are taking them, you know. And so that, that's really a Wonderful to hear that. Thank you for answering that. Our next question today is from Krista, who asks, for you, what is the best atmosphere or environment for getting your creative juices flowing?

That's a great question. So yeah, Krista, when I was, you know, was younger, I would— because I can write very quickly, I can write a novel in a couple of weeks. But if I get away and I'm actually— especially if I go to the beach, I can write one much even quicker, like a week or 4 days. But I don't always It's like a toss-up. I could surely do that, but I love my family and I love being— I'm a Grammy to 4 little boys that live nearby. So now I've got this new best way and it's amazing. I still love traveling, but I'd rather travel with them, the real people, not just the characters. So now I go to a dark room and it has a TV set in there, so a TV screen. And so I put up a YouTube clip of the beach. Like it could be Aruba, it could be Bahamas. And they have these 10-hour, 12-hour clips, and it's just waves on the shore, wind in the trees, blue sky, puffy clouds. And I now feel like I'm there. And so I put myself there, 10 steps away from everybody else, and then I write my stories there. And that, I feel like for me, I, you know, I outline, so I have to love the outline, love that I get to know the characters first. And I listen to, you know, instrumental music, soundtrack type stuff, uh, in my headphones. And then I have a beach view. It's like, of course, it feels so realistic that, yeah, that gets everything going. And I just have to stay in that place. My biggest problem is if I hear laughter upstairs, then I'm going to go upstairs and take a break.

Got to go see what's funny going on. That's right. That's great. Well, the last question today, this is actually from Carol Fiorita. And before we started recording today, I had mentioned Jeff Fiorita, and he's the police officer that you mentioned in the back of one of your books. And Jeff is actually on staff at my church. He's one of our pastors, works with the youth. And Carol is his wife. And Carol is probably the biggest Karen Kingsbury fan on the planet. I'm not quite sure, but I think it's got to be close. So this last question is from her today. Uh, she was wondering, is there a book that is closely related to your own personal life that you have written?

Well, first of all, Carol, because that's so sweet. I feel like if someone's read that many books, we're already friends. My dad would always say, you know, there's no autograph lines in heaven. You're just making friends. So I don't really use the fan word. So good to see you again, Carol. Good to talk to you. Yes, there. I mean, my very first novel, which is called Where Yesterday Lives, I was switching from writing true crime as a reporter to writing fiction that I wanted to write. That's what I wanted to do. And I thought, well, you know, I can't sue myself, so I'm going to just use some of my story. Where Yesterday Lives has an awful lot of my backstory, like as it up until the age of like 25, and the current story that's happening where she's having real problem with her husband and she's tempted to have an affair with her old boyfriend. All that is fictitious, I must clarify. But But it was, it was, my dad was poor of health and had, he was trying to quit smoking during when I wrote this. And, and I just was so concerned he was gonna die early. I was so, I love him so much. I still do love him so much. I can't wait to see him again. He passed in 2007. But so this was in like the late '90s. And I just, I just wanted to write a story of like, what if he passed? Passed. And what would that be like? We all come back to our hometown, and the siblings were kind of— there was a lot of tension between the siblings at that point. And I just thought, how would we find love? Like, how would we find hope again? And so there's the title, Where Yesterday Lives. So we all, you know, the characters all kind of come back, and all my siblings could tell which one they were in the fictitious book. But that's really— it was really just like the background of it. And then, of course, The Flanagans. So part of the Baxter family series, the Baxters eventually becomes— the first 5 are just the Baxters, and then it goes into Baxters but also Flanagans. And the Flanagans were really a lot like us. So they were a coach dad, writer mom, 6 kids, 3 of them adopted from Haiti, just 1 girl and 5 boys. And it kind of stopped there. But like, my kids were in sports and they were in theater and music, and all of those things were kind of brought— those themes of locations and like sort of story ideas are coming from my real life. But the kid— I promised the kids that would never be their real stories. So that's about as close as it got.

Well, that's great. Well, I know she's gonna love knowing that. Thank you for sharing so much information with our listeners today. I know that fans of yours are going to be excited to get to hear more about this. So just so everyone listening knows, if the technology works the way it's supposed to, and it usually does, in the show notes of this podcast, no matter where you're listening today, we should be be able to have links available for you to click on and be able to find not only Karen's website but the trailer for her new movie, Someone Like You, that she has personally made this time, which is amazing. And also her latest book, Just Once, at the time you're listening, will have just come out in publication. So you'll be wanting to look for that. So Karen Kingsbury, I get to say this to all my guests who come on this show, and I get to say it to you today. Thank you so much for being one of the voices in ahead this week.

Ah, thank you so much, Rick. Well, we'll look forward to doing it again sometime.

That sounds great. Thank you for listening, and please make sure to visit rickleejames.com.