Episode 545: Mark D. Conklin

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so grateful for all of you who are listening today. I know it's going to be another wonderful episode. We have some great things to talk about, new music actually that we're going to be discussing today. My guest today is Mark Conklin, and Mark is a distinguished music executive, a recording artist, a songwriter, and his latest endeavor is called The Gospel According to Mark. It's set to enchant listeners with its unique blend of spoken word and melody. It's going to be releasing coming up very soon, on May 17th, I believe is the date, and it features artists such as Gloria Gaynor, Rita Wilson, the Fisk Jubilee Singers, and many more. And so we are really excited to be able to talk to you about this today. Mark Conklin, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Good morning. Thank you for having me.

Well, it's so good to meet you, and I've been enjoying getting a sneak peek of your project. And, uh, just congratulations on, on some really well-done music. It's so cool to have the great Gloria Gaynor being, uh, being the scripture reader actually on there. And if you don't mind, as we begin, I just want listeners to have a little taste of that, and I'm just going to play a little bit of Gloria's reading here as the album starts off with Mark chapter 1, the narration just 3 verses, and here it is. The Book of Mark. The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Just as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: Behold, I am sending my messenger before you who will prepare your way, the voice of one calling out in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make his path straight. So great. So people might know her as a kind of a legendary artist, especially the song I Will Survive. But so much to talk about with this new project. Tell me first, as we begin, why the Gospel of Mark? Other than the fact that you both share a name, I wonder if, if just kind of how it came about, like, to write this whole project, because it's a very ambitious endeavor.

The, the title and the subject matter was, uh, the result of a prayer. I actually, I, I had known I wanted to make a project but didn't know what I wanted it to write, what I wanted to write about. That was the thing. So I, I remember, I know exactly where I was, in my, my main bathroom in the house, and I, I, I said to God, I said, God, what, what do you want me to write about? Like, if I do this project, what sorts of what topics or whatever should I, you know, be writing about? And then I heard a little voice inside, not out loud, but in the quiet, and it said, the Gospel according to Mark. And I laughed. I thought, well, that's kind of funny because I'm named Mark, and I was named after the writer of the Gospel. My brother was named John. I was named Mark. And if my mother had had two more sons, they would have been named Matthew and Luke. That is actually true. Um, it's probably best for us that that didn't happen. But, um, but, um, so I thought, oh, that's interesting. You know, at first I thought that's just a title, like, oh, that's, that's a cool title because I'll do some gospel-type music and it'll be the Gospel According to Mark. But then I thought, wait a minute, what if that's it? What if we actually tell the story of the gospel. I didn't know how that would be done at first. I thought, like, well, you know, if you tried to, like, literally tell stories with the music, it's gonna start sounding more like, you know, like a Broadway show or an opera or something like that. And I was like, I don't want it to be that. I said, so, okay, maybe we'll do the songs based on scripture readings, let the scripture, you know, narrate them. At first, I thought I would do that. I thought, oh, I'll you know, I've done a bunch of voiceover things. I thought like, oh, I'll read the scripture and then do the song. Um, but then I thought it would be boring to hear my voice the whole time, like, yeah, I'm reading it and then I'm singing. And I thought that's just gonna get tiresome, so I'll get a narrator. And then I thought, oh, it's going to get boring if we hear male voices through the whole thing. So I said maybe a female narrator would be, would be great for this. So I had— there was a time where I, for about 5+ years, I was the director of the Grammy Museum on the East Coast at the Prudential Center in Newark. And one of the programs that I did was an interview with Gloria Gaynor. It was called An Evening With. And that was such a big inspiration for me to do my own project, just the conversation that I'd had with her, talking about her faith and, and how important it was in putting those two things together, her music and her faith. I was, it was the pandemic, like we were down for, you know, we couldn't work. So I was editing podcasts. I was taking interviews that I'd done in person and turning them into audio podcasts so that we could put it out for content. And I was editing the podcast with Gloria and I heard her voice and I said, wait a minute, there's the voice. Like that's exactly what I was kind of in my head thinking would be good for this. And she, even the way she spoke, she has such a melodic way of speaking that I thought she, she might do well with this. But I had no idea that she would actually do it. That was sort of a, you know, um, I said, she probably won't, but I'm gonna ask. So I sent an email to her manager and 24 hours later I got an email that said Gloria would be honored to do it. And I was blown away. I couldn't, I couldn't believe that she was actually going to do it. Um, but that was the perfect— was the perfect person to do it, uh, again, because she'd been such an inspiration even for the, the album itself. And through that conversation, it was after that conversation with her that I decided I wanted to do my own project, just didn't know what it was. So to have this months— I don't know how many months later this was, maybe 7 or 8 months later— to have this idea and then to reach out to her I guess the next year, actually wasn't until the next year. And for her to say yes was pretty amazing. So yeah, so The Gospel According to Mark was a prayer. And it was really just, again, based on my own name. And the thing that I was kind of happy about is that Mark doesn't start with, with the birth, there is no nativity scene in Mark's Gospel. And I liked that because I was like, cool, I'm not— I don't have to write a Christmas song. Like, that was the thing. I was like, it shouldn't, because otherwise, right, you know, if you do any of the other gospels, you're gonna have some nativity scene. So I was like, oh, great, this starts with John the Baptist. And I thought, that's a— that's probably the— this worked out even better. So, so that's how it comes to be. After, after all, it's a little bit of divine intervention and serendipity combined, I would imagine.

Well, that's fantastic. Well, tell you what, I'm just going to take a few seconds here to share a clip from one of the songs from the album, The Greatest Is Love, which is the first single. And it's, it's a really like— it's, it's one that just has been in my head since I heard it the first time, and I just keep singing it. So I just want to share a little bit of it with our listeners here.

When you look into the eyes of a stranger, see into the heart of the Lord. And when you love on them, you know you're loving him. So listen to the truth of the word. Greatest is love. The greatest is love. You can pile up all your money and riches and sell your soul for fortune.

And that is The Greatest Is Love, and it features Wendy Moten also on that track. And that is from the new album, uh, from Mark. And it's, it's really, uh, an impressive array not only of artists but I think just even song styles and What went into— I know it was, you said it took you a while to do this project, to go into it, but what kind of setup do you, do you do a lot of your recording at home in a home studio and then kind of take it to other places? Especially, I think you had mentioned that this kind of started coming about during the pandemic. Just share a little with our listeners about kind of what your recording process was like on this.

The, um, the writing was done— again, it was during the pandemic, so it was done via Zoom. I called, um, two of my favorite co-writers, both in, uh, Nashville, Mark Hauser and Dave Rivers, and I wrote some with each of them, um, via Zoom, and then I wrote some by myself. So we did all the collaborating long distance, uh, and then when we went to record the album, we actually— this was now '21 record the tracks, we went to Nashville. We went to a studio called Watershed, uh, studio, which I'd worked in before. It's a great, um, little studio, uh, just outside of, um, I don't know if it's considered Brentwood or— but it might be considered, uh, Nashville. But it's a great studio, and, um, we recorded the band there. They have a great piano. We knew— I knew we were gonna have a lot of piano songs, so we decided that would be the best place to do it because they have a great piano. We had a great piano player, a woman named Catherine Marks, uh, who's played for Reba McEntire for years and plays, you know, all kinds of people.

Um, awesome.

And we, we brought her into to play that. And so we put— we wanted to do it like an old school. Um, my co-producer is named Mark Prentiss. He's a friend of mine, which we always laugh. There's me, Mark, my co-producer's named Mark, one of my co-writers co-writer's name, Mark. So we thought, this really is the Gospel According to Mark. But Mark and I, um, we're very influenced by Muscle Shoals type of records, like the one you just heard with, um, with Wendy Moten. And that's really— that was sort of like the vibe that we were going for, this sort of retro soul and rock, rock and soul gospel thing. Yeah. Um, and so we decided we wanted to put the band together and so— and do it, not, not do tracks, but put the band together and do it live. And so we did that. We recorded all the band tracks live. And then at my home studio, I did all my guitar parts and I did my vocal parts. And then the, the other featured artists was just a matter of where they, you know, when they were available. We went back to Watershed and did an entire week where like every 2 hours someone new was coming in. Some group was coming. It was the Fairfield Four, the Fisk Jubilee Singers, the McCreary Sisters. And we had them on a schedule, 10 o'clock and like, you know, 1 in the morning, 1 after lunch. Yeah, and we did that for a week and got most of them done. And then other people that were just available— weren't available for that, we just did one-offs. I, I was in New York with Rita Wilson doing her recording at the studio. Um, we— Mark did, uh, John Barry's performance at his own studio. So we just tried it— the features, we just fit in where we could. But by and large, it was recorded live in a room with the band, and then most of the overdubs were done at, you know, my own studio here.

Yeah, that's great. You know, that's kind of the, the wonderful thing about, um, digital recording in the age that we live in, the way that it, it is portable, you know. And, and so often it, it does make collaborations like this possible where it maybe wouldn't have been at one time, which is wonderful. Um, so tell me about, for you, what was sort of your, your big highlight moments on the album? I know you've had some, some pretty— you even mentioned just now some pretty powerful heavy hitters, uh, in the music industry. Um, for you though, what was— I, I find that sometimes artists have a special moment, um, throughout the recording project that stands out to them, and it may or may not be one of those famous people, or it may not be a day in the studio. It might just be something God revealed to you along the way that you just felt like, wow, this is going to encapsulate it for me. I wonder if there was one of those kind of moments for you that came from this.

I mean, there were a lot. There were so many at times. The whole process of making it, it was not that there weren't ups and downs, you know, there's anytime you're doing a project of this sort, you're going to have some bumps and bruises. But A, the fact that these people, finally, they all said yes, which right away was like, wait, you're actually going to do this?

Okay.

It was pretty surprising. And the only people that said no really were about scheduling conflicts and things. There weren't people that you know, just couldn't, didn't want to do it. The people, most people wanted to do it. So that was, that was a big thing, the fact that they were willing to do it. But the moments were mostly the, like, these ones in the studio that this, with the featured artists, two things. One, they would, we would pray before we started when we were doing them together. And that was a very special, it's very special. They would lead the prayer. And there were so many just kind of beautiful moments that some of them we were able to capture on film and some we weren't. But, um, those moments were very special. But then the others was just to hear their— out of their voices, these words that we'd come up with being sung back, and so beautifully. I mean, the first time I heard the Fisk Jubilee Singers and we started figuring out their parts and then they were singing them, you just can't believe, like, wait a minute, this is These are my words coming out of them. It's pretty amazing. And then the backing vocals, probably if there was anything that was like as a whole, was the day we spent with the backing vocalists. I had 4 amazing background singers. Lanisha Randolph, who sings with Lauryn Hill and with her brother Robert Randolph and the Robert Randolph Family Band and lots of other people. She's a dear friend and she helped put that together, that group with me, including Melissa Musique and Gene Noble, who sing background for Sting. And a woman named Matias Celeste, who's sung with tons of people as well. And the four of them came together. We went to my, my friend Ron Haney's, uh, studio down in Long Branch, New Jersey. And they had never all said— they'd all sang together differently, but never as a group. And yet we were able to knock out all the backing vocals for the entire album in a day, which— it was so amazing. And there were so many of these moments that were just— we were laughing. I remember Ron and I looking at each other, just laughing, saying, this is ridiculous. Like, these people are so good. And there was such a vibe and it was such an energy. And there was a moment in a song called Oh Lonely Day, which is out now, um, with John Berry and, and Rhonda Vincent, where— well, I had wrote the song, uh, with my friend Mark Hauser. We were on Zoom and I was doing the, the work tape, you know, I was just doing a demo of it in my phone so we would have it. And I played it, and at the end I'm thinking, oh, in that last chorus I'll sing "My God" and I'll have the chorus, the choir, whatever, the background singers will echo it. I'll say "My God," they'll sing "My God," I'll sing "My God," they'll sing "My God." I thought that would be cool. So I finished, and Mark, my co-writer, Hauser, says, you know what you should do when you record it? He says, when you get to that third chorus and you sing "My God," you should have the choir echo it. But I was like, man, I was That's crazy. I was just thinking that.

Yeah.

So we get to the recording session, we're listening to the recording with the background singers, figuring out the part. Then we get to that third part, you hear me singing "My God" and Lanisha echoes "My God," sings it right back at me. And I said, that's it, that's exactly— that's, that's what I was going to tell you to do. Perfect. So they go in there, they get to that part, they do it once, and then we say, okay, let's double it, let's stack it. And when they stacked it, and it sounded like a big choir, I'll tell you, Rick, I was so overcome with emotion. I had to— my eyes welled up with tears. I had to turn around and just like walk to the back of the studio because it was so overwhelming. So I think if there was one moment that was just, you know, kind of sort of unbelievable, the fact that that all— we all thought the same thing. And then when they executed it, it was like hearing the, you know, heavenly choir. Every time I hear that, you know, the end of that record, it's— I don't think I'll ever forget that or get over it. It was, it was a really special moment.

Yeah, well, I love hearing about those transcendent moments that just seem bigger than us. And I remember, you know, years ago reading about— I believe it was in his book Speechless. Steven Curtis Chapman wrote a book with his pastor years ago, Scotty Smith, and he writes about in that book when they were in the studio and they brought the orchestra in for one of his songs. And he said it was this thing where he had started with just something simple, you know, in his mind and trying to figure out how would an orchestra play this. And then the conductor took over and then all of it just became this big thing. And he described something very similar to what you're saying in that book, the idea of like tears were just welling up in his eyes. So there's these beautiful moments of something that that is bigger than us that happens. And I feel like they're divine moments, definitely, especially when, when all things work together the way that they're supposed to like that. And I appreciate stories like this, because it helps us when we're listening to the recording to, to have our ears perked up a little bit for something more to like, oh, I want to hear, I want to hear that special moment, you know, when it happened. So that's great.

Well, on the other part is when you have people when you have people that great who sing that well, yeah, it, it challenges you as a singer. Because I'll tell you, I recorded all my vocals, I thought, and then I was like, I record this, now I have the back vocals on it. And then as soon as I had the backing vocalists on it, I said, oh, this isn't good enough, Mark. Like, your energy has to go to a different level. Or there's new information that you, you know, you decide, well, there's something new here, I could do something different. So then I would change it. Then I had the feature vocalist come on. I said, oh, this isn't good enough, Mark, you've— now you've got to go. So I think you talk about the, the, the home recording and the digital stuff. Thank God for the home recording and digital because it allowed me to go back and redo things and continue to do things, uh, instead of just saying like, oh, that first one was the best one. It wasn't. It was when I put it on there, but once the new information was on there and the new singers then you got to raise your game. So, um, so that's— that was a— you talk about one another recording process, for me, yeah, that was a big part of it, was, yeah, do it again. And maybe not do the whole thing again, but just a line or two that has to be— it's got to be better. It's got— you've got to raise your John Barry, you know, Ron Davidson. Now you've got to get— you got to get to a different level.

Definitely. Oh, oh man, that's great. Well, you know, it's, it's, uh, not quite that level, but I, I do that Same thing. Just today I have a song that I recorded here in my home that the drums are being tracked in another state today. And I've been doing that same thing where you hear something new that comes in with another layer. And so I think I need a dobro now. I got to add this in. So it is wonderful to be able to have that ability to be able to do that in the times that we live in. And, you know, I would love to ask you too, while I have you, because I'm a member of the Recording Academy myself, and I only recently realized when I was reading about you And you mentioned it today, your involvement with the Grammy Museum. And I think you interviewed something like— is it around 200 artists or something like that?

Over. Over 200.

Wow.

Yeah.

So you really had a chance. I feel like you should be interviewing the interviewer because right now, because you've done so much and had so much going on. Tell us, if you don't mind, I'd love to just hear a little bit about what that was like, kind of being involved in the Grammy Museum and having a chance to, to be able to, to share stories of so many creative people.

I'll tell you what, it was— it's a big reason that I did this album in this sense, that I was doing the programs at, at the Grammy Museum, which is— was in the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey. And we would do these live, um, you know, in person with a audience. And they were great. They were some of my favorite nights was being able to, you know, I remember, it's crazy, I had DJ Khaled, I had Gloria Gaynor, I had, I've had Mary Wilson for the Supremes, like lots of crazy, and even people that I grew up who were people that I idolized, like the Smithereens, we put them in the New Jersey legend section and interviewed them. And these are great nights. But what happened when the pandemic started, like everybody else, we were shut down. So we had to go to Zoom, and we had to start doing interviews. But the thing that was amazing now was suddenly I could interview people anywhere and everywhere. And I wasn't bound by just, are they going to be in the New York area? So now I was— I could interview Sting, and I could interview Jason Mraz, and you know, you name it, like, and lots and lots of upcoming— I would discover up-and-coming artists. And for me, it was everything that we did was focused on the creative process. We— I was never asking questions about who you're dating. And you know, what, what clothes you're wearing, like that just wasn't— it was the Grammy Museum. So it was about the creative process. And so we had a program called Behind the Songs, and we would talk with people about certain songs and how they created them and what they were thinking about when they wrote them, etc. So as a musician and as a creator, it was really inspiring. Like, I would have a chance to, to interview the best people in the world and get new perspectives that I would not have normally considered. And again, this was during the pandemic, so it made me say, you know what, Mark, pick up a guitar again and start writing and start creating, because to have people like that giving you, giving you inspiration. And one of the things we did was we did a program called Mini Masterclass, where, which we still do now, where we ask people things about like their, what inspired them, what new music or artists or their favorite record from the last century, we call it vintage vinyl. And now I would hear new music that I hadn't heard before, I would look into new books that I hadn't read before. So I was being fed by all these great creators. And for me, I— it was, again, it was such— it fueled me to want to do this record and to really get it and be better than I had ever been before. Because suddenly I was like, oh, this is where the bar is. When you're talking to people who do it that well, you realize, uh, they have something— something's very much in common. And, and I, I started seeing the patterns, and I was like, one, they are persistent as all get out. There is like, if you ask them over and over what it takes to succeed, 9 out of 10 of them will tell you persistence, persistence, persistence, grit, some form of that. And then the other is that they just don't settle. They don't. So going back to what I said earlier, was there was probably a time where I would have settled for the vocal that I had on that going, it's good enough. And this time I said, no, we're not, not settling. Like, it's not, it's not happening. This has to be to have these type of people, it has to be at a different level. And so that for me was very informative, very inspirational. And to be honest too, some of the people that are on this album came from that. So I interviewed, for example, Rita Wilson, and we just had a really good rapport, uh, when we did our, our interview. And afterwards she was like, oh, those were really great questions, and it was different. And I think And, and they, people will tell me that often when I do music interviews, but I think that's, and you'll know what I mean by this, it's because I am a musician.

Yeah.

And I create, and so I can, I can speak at a different level and it doesn't mean I'm at their level. It just means that I, I know what it's like to be in a studio. I know what it's like to struggle, uh, writing a song. I know what it's like to be rejected. I, I like, I know all those things and I'm not approaching it so much from a journalist standpoint, but as someone who You know, I said, if I would do this for free, like, it's what we do, right? We sit around and talk to other musicians about music. Yeah. And the fact that I got paid for it and got to talk to people about it, I always said I had the best job in the state. I was sure. And I still feel that way.

That's fantastic. And I'm glad you mentioned Rita Wilson, actually, too. I think most people will know her for her acting and that she's married to Tom Hanks and things. But I'm not sure that As many people know what an amazing singer she is. In fact, there's been a couple of times when I didn't know I was listening to Rita Wilson and I've Shazammed a song because I'll hear it playing on a TV show or something and I'm like, that is a gorgeous song and their voice is just amazing. And little did I know it's Rita Wilson coming through there. So, right. Pretty. Yeah. I mean, amazing. So I just think the fact that this, this gives another way for her to let her voice be known through your project too, because I'm just not sure everyone is aware of that and how incredibly talented she is.

I think that's the thing about Rita that struck me. Again, when I was— two things— when I was preparing for the interview with her, as you do, you know, you start looking up things and looking for other interviews, and I found several instances of her talking about her faith. She's Greek Orthodox, and she had— Tom had converted as well. And I didn't know that about her. I didn't know that was a thing that was important to her. And, you know, you don't typically expect to hear anyone from Hollywood say anything about that, whether privately or publicly, you know. And so, so I thought that was interesting. And then when I interviewed her, I felt like we had like something in common in the sense that, you know, slightly different scale. But here she is with this amazing day job, right? Like, she is an actor, she's a producer, she can do anything she wants in that world. But at the same time, her passion for music was so great that she put her time and her energy and her money and everything else into being really good at something and working at it and doing records and, and things that she does not have to do. But because it's her passion. And I thought, at a smaller scale, that was me at the time. I thought, like, I have this really cool day job, I run a Grammy museum, I get to interview all these artists, but I'm called to things. I was called to, to make music, and then I was— I feel I was called to do this project specifically, um, as, you know, as far as kingdom building, uh, or in my case, like, this is my Solomon Temple building moment. Like, I can't build a temple, this is the one that I can do, you know. So, so I thought we had that in common. That's why I thought it was interesting. That's why I wanted to have her on it. And then when we got together in the studio in New York to record, we had an amazing and very moving conversation about faith and family. And I thought, oh, this is a side of her that maybe other people don't know. So I'm really glad that she was able, you know, willing and able to do this project with me and to be on it on a song that I really like a lot called Through the Storm, which I had wrote by myself and again, very much in that soul vibe, very much in that sort of Memphis Muscle Shoals thing with the horns and everything else. And so hopefully people who like that kind of music and like a little bit of rock with their soul and a little bit of soul with their rock or whatever it is, and, and the message of the gospel at the same time, hopefully that'll resonate with people and they'll, you know, they'll enjoy it.

Definitely. Well, I think people are going to really gravitate around it. And I want to make sure all of our listeners who are listening that they know, even though the album doesn't come out until May 17th, they can pre-save it right now. And there's actually a couple songs available, um, so, and I would really recommend they do that because that actually helps with the algorithms when you go through on Apple Music and Spotify and the different places and pre-add it. It kind of helps, um, however that magical algorithm works, it helps the, the artist out in the long run to do that for sure. So I just want to encourage everybody, and if the technology works the way it's supposed to, you should be able to, all of you who are listening today, uh, be able to go right to the show notes for this podcast, be able to click a link and it'll take you right there. Um, and if that fails for some reason, go to— just look up Mark Conklin online for his website and all the information is available through that today.

Well, yeah, in fact, we created a page called markgospel.com.

Oh, okay.

Go to markgospel.com. That's a link to a page on my site that has all the information, um, plus it has the links, it has the current lyric videos, some behind-the-scenes videos. So they can go and from there they can go over to all their favorite platforms and Spotify and Apples or whatever else that they, that they like as well. markgospel.com.

Perfect. Markgospel.com. It's easier to say, and I just messed it up. Markgospel.com. It's, uh, well, Mark, it's been a real pleasure just getting to talk to you today and to get to hear a little bit of the behind the scenes of this great album that I've been listening to for a couple weeks now. Um, is there anything else that we didn't touch on today that you just feel like, man, I'd love everybody to know this, uh, about the project? I want to always give my guests the opportunity to do that.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. First of all, thank you very much for having me on. It's very— again, it's enjoyable. Always good to talk to people who understand the process because, um, they, they, you know, they, they get it. And, uh, that's why I like doing these interviews as well, uh, on both sides of the, of the microphone, as they say. I just hope everyone, you know, again, it— our hope was that we would try to bring people closer to the, the message itself, closer to the gospel. I thought, look, there are people who've heard some of these stories thousands of times, but maybe this is a different spin on it because the scripture is the scripture, but the song is a commentary sort of on the scripture. And for me, what I love about scripture is that it— yes, it's written in stone and lives in a time and tells a story, but it's speaking to us now today about our lives. So my hope was that the songs would help sort of do that as well. So for people who've heard the scriptures readings a lot, maybe it's a new spin on it. But for people who maybe haven't heard it, you know, maybe this would be an opportunity for them to come closer to it through the music. So that was sort of— that was the overall hope for the project. And so I hope that the listener who has a chance, uh, you know, to check it out, that they'll— depending on which camp they're in— that they'll have an experience like that, God willing.

I, I— well, I hope so too. Well, Mark Conklin, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Thank you, Rick.

And to all of you who are listening out there today, thank you so much for being here. Uh, when you listen, you minister to me. And I want to thank Mark again for being a part of this show today. Uh, it should be that all of the links that you need are going to be available in the show notes of this podcast. Uh, but make sure to check out my website too if you have a chance at Rick Lee James rickleejames.com. I've got some new, new music heading your way. And I also want to remind all of our listeners that the Wesleyan Songwriting Summit is coming up in Chicago, Illinois, August 1st through 3rd, and I'm helping out with that this year. We'd love to see a lot of you out there, especially those of you who are interested in songwriting. So thank you so much for listening to Voices in My Head, everyone. God bless you and have a wonderful day.