Episode 616: Faith Under Fire: Carl Ruby on Standing with Haitian Families in Springfield

Hello everyone, welcome back to Voices in My Head. I wanted to make a quick apology at the beginning of this episode because my volume was all wonky on this episode because I was trying a new pair of Bluetooth mics that I had. They usually work really well, but unfortunately I thought both of the mics were on and they were not. And so the mic that was clipped over to Carl's shirt was the mic that apparently was the only one working working and was picking up both of our voices during this conversation. So I tried to adjust the audio as well as I can, but it still is not the best audio quality whenever I am speaking. So I apologize for that, but Carl is the real meat and potatoes of the episode anyway. So without any further ado, just give us a little grace for the audio quality. Give me grace, it was my fault, not Carl's. He was gracious enough to sit down with me after a long day at work at the hospital, and it was just good to be able to talk and hear his grace voice as he talked about the ministry in Springfield, Ohio to our Haitian refugees, to the many people affected by that and the effect on our city. So thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Enjoy, and again, I apologize for the volume.

I'm so glad that you all could be here today to listen to another podcast. Today we're going to talk about something that is close to home for me here in Springfield, Ohio. Over the past year, or really even a little more than a year, Our city has been at the center of a national conversation. It's been fueled by rumors and misinformation about Haitian immigrants living in our community, and today my guest is Pastor Carl Ruby, who has been working closely with Haitian families and helping churches respond with compassion and truth in the midst of it all. Carl joins me to talk about what's really happening in Springfield and what people of faith can learn from this moment. So Carl, thank you so much for taking some time tonight.

You are welcome.

Well, I know that many listeners might only know Springfield from recent headlines, and I wonder if you could tell us just a little bit about what's actually been happening with the Haitian community here in Springfield over the past couple of years.

Yeah, you know, I think a great place to start is that Haitians arriving in Springfield is the best thing that's happened in the city in in half a century. We have been in population decline since the early '70s. We had shrunk, we were the fastest shrinking city in America one year and the fastest growing the next when the Haitians arrived, but we had shrunk all the way back to what our population was in 1920. So this is the first time we've grown in, in half a century. And that's, that is helping our economy. It's helping businesses grow. It's a, it was attracting businesses to Springfield. And unfortunately, in terms of attracting businesses, all of that stopped when the comments were made about them eating cats and dogs in Springfield. I was talking to the president of the Chamber of Commerce And he said that in a typical year we used to get 20 to 25 inquiries about moving businesses to Springfield, and that since the dogs and cats comment there hasn't been a single one. So it's really, it's really damaged Springfield and interrupted something that was really good.

Well, many people did first hear about Springfield because of the viral rumors, as you mentioned, about Haitian immigrants eating dogs and cats. For you personally, I know what it was like for me, broke my heart, but for you personally, what was it like watching that story spread?

Well, first of all, I hate even repeating it. Just repeating what the president said, to me, it feels offensive. But I mean, tensions were already high. They've been high ever since a school bus accident that took the life of a young student, Aiden Clark, back in 2023, I believe. So tensions had been really high, and then the city had really kind of gotten a handle on a lot of the growing pains, and then when those comments were made, everything just erupted. And we lost all the progress and even went— I think even regressed further with those. So it was shocking, it was scary, surreal is a word that I've heard a number of times, I think it's pretty good.

It's a good one. It's hard to put into words actually. The before and after. I can tell you that as well from living here, working with Haitian patients and families at the hospital. I know what my experience has been with them, but I wonder from your perspective how this moment felt in the Haitians that you interacted with. What was the sense that you felt, especially from that time and maybe even through today that maybe there was a change?

Well, I think when it comes to Haitians' experience, I think a good place to start is realizing these are people who've already been traumatized. So there's a group of people who had to leave their homes. Many of them have lost family members. They have lost friends. Many in my church survived kidnapping attempts. Some of them had been in prison. So they're highly traumatized and then they come to the United States and they're traumatized again. And I just, it just breaks my heart. I'm proud of the way most people in our city have responded. I really think the majority of people have welcomed our Haitian refugees, and I hear that from Haitians, but I'm ashamed on the part of our country to be doing this. And they were, you know, they were there. They've just lived in continuous anxiety. So like ever since those comments, it's like we've been waiting for the shoe to drop. And not knowing if it's going to be tomorrow or a year from now or not at all. So I just, you know, just this afternoon the government appealed the case up to the Supreme Court, the lawsuit. So hopefully that will provide support for sustaining TPS and provide some sense of stability.

I hope so too. The Haitians that I've been privileged to know, to worship with, to be at the hospital to serve as their chaplain and to be with them, I have noticed that same feeling. I think it's a moral injury that they have endured. The way that so many of them have continued to be so gracious and so kind and loving and even have gratitude. I've been amazed by that at times, stopping to talk with their families. How are you? How can we help? And they're just— they almost have a spiritual superpower in some ways.

Well, you know, they do. And like for me, like we have about 40, sometimes up to 50 who attend here on a Sunday. And sometimes people approach it as though we're kind of doing them a favor. And it's not that. It's the exact opposite of that in that they are people who have learned so much about enduring suffering. They have incredibly strong faith. And what continually shocks me is how much joy they have. They are just a joyous people, and they worship joyfully. Even the way they interact with people out in the lobby after church services, they just bring a lot of energy and a lot of enthusiasm and happiness, and we are just blessed to have them.

What's one thing that you think people would be surprised to learn about our Haitian brothers and sisters? There might be several things, but just one.

Well, you know, one thing is I think when a lot of people think of refugees, they think of people who are destitute, and at Central, most of the Haitians who worship with us are professionals. They're doctors, lawyers, IT people, school administrators, nurses, and I think that surprises people. They don't think of a refugee in that in that category, but they're the kind of people that Springfield desperately needs, and losing them will be such a huge loss that I will grieve not only for the personal friendships that I would lose, I'll grieve for my church because it will set our church back, and I'll grieve for Springfield.

With that being said, recently you have been at the center of some attacks, and it seems like these— there's been some stories written about TikTokers and different ones who have, um, for lack of a better word, they've created and fabricated stories about you, about people in the church, about people in Springfield, um, and there've been some really hurtful things that have been said. I wondered if you just maybe wanted to address any of that and just kind of say, here's some things that are true and here's some things that have been taken out of context or misinterpreted. And I don't know how often we take time to hear everyone's side of the story, but I know from people I talk to, especially young people, they're very quick to believe somebody that they see on TikTok or something like that, and not so quick to actually have a conversation. So I just wanted to really give you a chance to kind of talk about how you've been addressing that, how you've been dealing with it personally, and really just to check in on you out of concern too as a brother in Christ.

Thank you. A couple of responses. One is it hurts. It hurts to hear some of the things that people say. And most of it unfolds on social media. And I'm convinced that people would never say to my face some of the things they put on social media. But one prominent person in town who is against having immigrants here posted, Carl Ruby is a piece of shit coyote who needs to be drummed out of town. And there are lots of comments like that, and on one level they're hurtful. On another level, I view them through the beatitude that says, you know, "Blessed are you when people curse you and say all manner of evil against you on behalf of me. Great is your reward in heaven. In the same way they persecute the prophets." So I feel I feel like it is an honor to stand with the Haitians, and I feel it's— what I've gone through is so minor compared to what they've gone through. In some ways, it's a privilege to stand with them and soak some of that up.

Well, thank you for sharing that.

I don't lose a lot of sleep over it.

Good.

Good. I'm glad to hear that. And I always get concerned when I hear people going through that kind of thing. It's hard to have your name tarnished, and then especially when you're trying to do the exact opposite of what you're being accused of, you know, in the midst of things. So thank you for— I guess I wanted partially to do this podcast tonight to thank you for your faithfulness in the midst of difficult days, in the midst of heavy pressure. It's not easy when social media takes over and attacks and does the thing that social media does. Probably none of us dreamed any of us would be the center of something like that, especially not for helping people. But thank you sincerely. Thank you for the work.

You're welcome. It was a long journey. And in some ways I had a life, what I would call life-changing experience about 15 years ago in Birmingham, Alabama. I was with a group of college students and we went to the 16th Street Baptist Church where 4 young girls were killed in a bombing. And then went across the street to the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. And for the first time in my life, I read King's Letter from Birmingham Jail, and I had no idea that it was a letter written to pastors at that time. And I remember standing there and thinking how awful it would be to go down in history as one of those 8 names who refused to kind of stand up with their Black brothers and sisters in Christ. And I made a commitment to myself that I wouldn't do that, that if I had a chance to use my voice and to use my privilege to stand with someone who needed that, that I would. So I've been thinking about this for a long time. This is kind of a culmination to that process.

Well, I'm glad for the journey that you've been on. I'm sorry for the pain that has come in the midst of it. I guess we should take heart that if the world persecuted him, as Jesus said, that it will also be trouble for us.

Yep, yep.

I am grateful for your faithful witness. It helps all of us to, to see what it looks like to be faith under fire. So thank you for that. Maybe one last good question here tonight, and again, I appreciate I appreciate your time, just taking a few minutes of your busy life as a pastor and a person who has a family. What's something that you see maybe right now that's giving you hope?

What's giving me hope? I'm proud of the way our city came together. I really think that Springfield is going to come out of this with an enhanced reputation. And I think, I keep thinking of the passage in Genesis, the story of Joseph, where his brothers meant something for evil, but God used it for good. And I think that the president and those who have kind of attacked immigrants meant it for evil for our city. And I think we're going to come out of it with a reputation as a city that really welcomes people and it really stood by people and defended people. And my dream for a long time has been that Springfield would become known as the most immigrant-friendly small city in America. So that's what I hope happens. And I really do think, I really do think Springfield has handled it well. People are watching that and I think we're going to benefit from that.

I hope you're right, and I do see signs of hope as well. So, well, thank you very much. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about tonight that you feel like, you know what, people listening, I'd really like you to know this thing before we finish our talk together tonight?

Well, one thing I think I would say is it's really important to pray right now. Um, just today, the case that would protect Haitians from being deported was appealed up to the Supreme Court. So this is a very important time to pray for favor and for justice and for a decision that protects the lives of our Haitian friends and neighbors.

Well, Carl Ruby, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

You're welcome.