Guest Preacher William H. Willimon - Episode 382

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm very glad that you could be here with us today for what is going This is going to be a great episode. Today on the podcast, I'm pleased to welcome back Reverend Dr. William H. Willimon. Dr. Willimon served as the Dean of Duke Chapel and Professor of Christian Ministry at Duke University for 2 decades. He returned to Duke after serving as Bishop of the North Alabama Conference of the United Methodist Church from 2004 to 2012. He is the author of over 70 books, And as you are about to hear today, he is also a skilled preacher. I asked Dr. Willemond back to Voices in My Head today because on July 12th of this year, he preached a sermon at the Washington National Cathedral, and it really resonated with me. I wanted to give the listeners of Voices in My Head a chance to hear the sermon, which speaks into our present moment of pandemic, white violence and unrest, and Dr. Willemann graciously agreed to let me share it today. So just before we do that, I wanted to catch up quickly with Dr. Willemann and let him give a bit of a preface to this sermon. So Dr. William Willemann, welcome back to Voices in My Head.

It's so good to be back with you, Rick.

Well, thank you for just taking a few minutes of your time today to be able to talk to us. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show, and I just want to start by asking, how are you doing?

Uh, doing fine, uh, isolated but getting ready for classes for the fall, but which are all going to be online. But it's an adventure.

Yeah, I'm sure. And same here at our house. My wife is a teacher and my son is a student, and he's gonna, he's gonna be online, but she actually has to go back to school at this point. So we'll see what the new year brings, but, uh, we're all We're all just a little bit nervous and wondering, for sure.

Absolutely, Rick. Yeah, well, thanks for—

I appreciate it. Well, thank you for, for letting me share your wonderful sermon from July 12th today. And I believe that you have spoken at the Washington National Cathedral a number of times in the past. I was wondering first if you might be able to give us a little bit of a background really to that beautiful house of worship.

Well, it's an amazing place, amazing building, impressive building, but also impressive that it's alive and being used well today. In fact, they've done one of the best jobs during the pandemic of broadcasting a service. It's Episcopal, it's high church liturgical,— but they do it in such a visually pleasing way, opening up the building with various camera shots. And the music has impressed me and my wife so much. We've been worshiping there virtually since March. And I just think their staff has done an amazing job during a limited time. So it fascinates me how churches have responded during the pandemic to the challenges of the pandemic, and the cathedral has responded beautifully. This time I didn't preach physically there, but I preached in the empty Goodson Chapel of Duke Divinity School, and it was filmed and sent there, but it was done so seamlessly technologically, a lot of people thought I was standing in the pulpit at the National Cathedral.

Sure, and it did look like that way on the video, and Duke has wonderful facilities as well, so it really did have a very seamless effect the way that it was brought in. Well, I wonder if also, if you could just maybe, for those of us who listen who preach from time to time— I know some of my listeners preach every week, and some like me do on occasion— I wonder if you might give us just a little bit of the background for this sermon and some of the circumstances of the world that were on your mind as you were preparing to preach that day?

Well, the sermon began the way I think sermons ought to begin. It began with Scripture, and at National Cathedral they use the Revised Common Lectionary, so that meant that when I was invited for that Sunday, I was told, "Well, these are the scriptural texts for that Sunday.". And that gives you 3 possibilities, uh, well, 4 counting the Psalm. And I looked at all of them, uh, the Gospel for that Sunday was Jesus' parable of the sower and the seed, and that's a parable dearly beloved to preachers. And I, I thought about that, but then I looked at the Epistle assigned for that Sunday, and it was, uh, as you see, uh, from Paul And he's writing to the church at Rome, and he, uh, he— his discussion was— is kind of a, oh, a convoluted discussion about law and flesh and all. But then he, he begins by saying, um, there's no condemnation in Jesus Christ. Then he gets into the law and all, but then he ends that pericope, that section, by saying, um, uh, for though the body is dead, uh, the Spirit makes alive, and you are alive in Christ. And, uh, that caught my eye because it seemed to me that we were living in a time of death, the body bags, the pandemic going on was one kind of death, and then most of us could not get out of our consciousness the scene of George Floyd with the policeman's knee on his neck saying, "I can't breathe." It just seemed like a time where death is calling the shots and death reigns among us in various forms. So I, from there, I thought, well, I'm gonna kind of go with Paul and say, hey, the body is dead. We are mortal, finite, limited human beings. And man, we've really felt that in the last few months. But in Jesus Christ, uh, in the spirit, uh, uh, we there is resurrection. And, um, so that, that became my, my sermon.

Wow, it's an excellent sermon. And I, I'm reminded of—

well, thank you—

of what my, uh, one of my preaching professors back when I was at Trevecca University years ago, he always said, you know, it's a, it's a good idea as preachers that we have the Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other so that we can speak into those situations. And, and I just think it's just such well-done example of doing that, but it really is a sermon that I feel is very timely. So I just want to say thank you again for giving me a chance to share it. Do you happen to have a title for this sermon?

Um, oh, you know, the Episcopalians don't seem to ask for titles, and I'm trying to think Uh, you know, I don't know that I did. Uh, uh, oh, I think it was no condemnation.

No condemnation.

And there it seemed like Paul plays that, you know, death is condemnation experienced by it. It is, it is the combination condemnation of life's limits, the condemnation of a lot of human aspirations and, and yearnings. And yet in Christ there is no condemnation, and he comes to save, he comes to raise the dead. And, uh, so I guess that was the theme. And I've appreciated the response to the sermon. It's amazing, something like 16,000 people participate in the National Cathedral service, either in that moment or download the service shortly thereafter. And it's just amazing, you know, that that many people all around the world are watching and tuning in. And it's really, you know, reminded me the power of Anglican Episcopal liturgy, how biblical it is, how noble the language is and appropriate to the gravity of the moment. So it was, it was a thrill to get to preach in the middle of that. In fact, my sermon maybe is a little more kind of dramatic, um, uh, colloquial, because you're, you're in that elegant, noble language setting. I kind of like the juxtaposition there. But anyway, thank you. Sure.

Well, I'm, I'm so pleased to be able to share it, even just a little bit further today. And I want to thank you for your ministry as always, and thank you for the good words to us. And, and may the Spirit of the Lord use it to speak to our hearts again and again.

You and your family, this is your wife teaching.

You bet. Well, with that, we're going to go to the sermon now. And thank you for joining me for that quick preface to the sermon today, Dr. Willemot.

Okay, Rick, bye.

There is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. Though the body is dead, the one who raised Jesus Christ from the dead will give you life in your human bodies through his Spirit. Greetings from Goodson Chapel of Duke Divinity School. Patsy and I have really enjoyed worshiping here at the cathedral with you in these past Sundays. We've been here since Holy Week, and we are deeply grateful for the staff, the leadership of this grand church, and its competence and care during these past Sundays. Now, the last time that I preached here at the cathedral, uh, a fellow tourist emerged after the service and said, "Hey, you were so depressing. I hope you're never invited back." Well, I'm back, and this time I so want not to be depressing. But let's face it, these past months we have been in a depressing dialogue, a depressing dialogue with death. Oh, we began the year well. We said, "We're in control. We're making progress. We're doing fine, thank you, just on our own. We're okay." And then by March, the virus And we had to say, "Well, the White House is clueless, but maybe the government will get its act together. Maybe we can beat this thing." And about March, I started to hear that voice. "Your cheery claims of human self-sufficiency and impotency sound silly. Death said, "Now I'm in charge." Now you'd think as a pastor, I guess I've done 1,000 funerals in my time, you'd think as a pastor I would be more adept at talking back to death. This theological thanatologist should be able to come up with an adequate word to respond to death's doings. I'm a septuagenarian, I ought to know more about mortality than you kids. But even I have found it hard to find the words. To turn on the evening news and to see death's haggard face staring back at me, the body bags in Mexico City or Monrovia or Manhattan. We've put everything we've got, our whole lives, into this little business, she said. "Is mine now," said the one with the hourglass and the scythe. "100,000 by the end of May? They don't call me the Grim Reaper for nothing. Go ahead, put your knee on the man's neck." Oh, there's a scuffle at the entrance to the store. The president tells me I don't have to wear a mask. You can't make me wear that mask. The owner of the store says, if you're so selfish, you don't care about the well-being of my employees, you can get out of here. And he said, thanks to you both for your efforts. I'll take it from here. Oh, since me and my buddy COVID-19 got to town, oh, we're in charge. We attempted to respond. We can lick this, we said. We're making progress. We're all in this together. And death says, "Read the numbers. No, you think George and Ahmaud and Rayshard and Breonna, you think their deaths were accidents?" Oh, death says, "I take out 100,000 of your fellow citizens." You call out the troops, you tear gas your own people, and all you've got is a bunch of sentimental sappy bromides. "She'll live on in our memories," we say. But that doesn't make up for the family that says in their grief, will never hear Mama laugh ever again. Oh, Ernest Becker was right. Conquering death smirks to us. Do your accomplishments, accumulate all your stuff, build your big buildings, publish a book, "Look, but in the end I'll have the last word. Gotcha!" Life's little losses add up to the great big rip-off. As Paul put it in this Sunday's epistle, the body The human body is dead. Oh, we strut about talking about our competence, and a little microscopic cell, first cousin of the common cold, comes into town to teach us a truth that the church tried to teach us here on Ash Wednesday. You are dust, and to dust ye shall return. And I so wanted not to be depressing. Paul says Christians do not grieve as those who have no hope. We grieve, yes, death is real, a cause of grief, yes, but We are not without hope. Well, where is our hope in the face of death's dark dealings? I know where hope is not. Hope is not in our human strategies. Nothing human is a match for death. And in the face of that, Christians make a brash claim: In Jesus Christ, God has done in death. Jesus stood up to hate in his ministry. He thumbed his nose at governmental and military tyranny. He stood beside the victims. He became a victim himself. Jesus Christ spoke a word to the principalities and powers, and then in one last decisive move, he defeated death. He did what we cannot. Paul says, when it comes down to it, as it will for us all, even those of you who are not as ancient as I, when it comes down to it, the final enemy is death. Jesus Christ is God doing something about death. The Christian faith begins in the cemetery. The women go out to the cemetery while it was still dark. They are shocked The stone has been rolled away from the tomb. There's this impudent angel sitting atop the stone. The angel says to the women, "Oh, you're looking for Jesus? I'm sorry, you just missed him again. Oh, by this time he's out in Galilee. By this time, there you will see him." The women said to themselves, "Well, maybe this thing between us and God is not over." Maybe it's just beginning. That very night, the disciples were hunkered down like a bunch of frightened rabbits behind locked doors. The stranger came, kicked in the door, stood among them, showed them his hands and his side, and, and spoke to them, "Peace! Receive my Holy Spirit! Do what I did!" And his clueless disciples said, "Wow, we thought that was— we thought death had the last word." And they exploded out into the whole world with a message: Crucified Jesus has been raised from the dead. They spread out into the world with his word: "Because I live, you shall live." Oh, death, death is real, it is terrible, the final foe, and death has been done in by Jesus Christ. That's how Christians could be so brutally honest about death and at the same time so defiant. Death has been defeated. That claim, that claim is, is why Christians founded the first hospitals. It's our little death-defying act. That's why on the way in the ambulance to the hospital, she said to the attendant, "Young man, I want you to promise me that if there's a shortage of ventilators, my ventilator will be given to someone younger than I. I'm okay about the future." That's why on the Sunday after George Floyd's funeral, that's why in the cathedral, Imani Grace Cooper stood up and she sang defiantly, "I sing because I'm happy, I sing because I'm free." His eye is on the sparrow, and I know he watches me. That's why when a few weeks ago somebody asked me, do you ever think there's any hope for America overcoming our long-term epidemic of white racial violence? I said, you know, knowing American history since 1619, uh, no, I don't think there's much hope. And then I heard God whisper, after crucified, Jesus was raised. You don't know what's impossible, do you? Oh, some of you, by the way you have conducted yourselves in these past weeks, standing up to death, whether it's death's minions of COVID-19 or white racial violence. Some of you have shown that what was said in the cathedral on Easter morning happens to be true. He is raised! He is risen! He is risen indeed! The God who raised crucified Jesus from the dead promises, "I'll bring you along into eternity." In love, the same Jesus who reaches out to us so resourcefully in life reaches out to us in death. Jesus Christ refuses to be raised alone. You know, from what I've seen as a pastor, at the time of death, the main grief people feel is grief at the loss of relationship. They grieve for the loss of family, of friends, or work. The loss of relationship. But in Jesus Christ, God has the last word. The God who has shown so much determination to be in relationship with you continues in life, in death, in any life beyond death, This is our hope, and if it's not true, then as far as I know, we are indeed hopeless. I was there. I was there when he got the diagnosis. Oh, we grieved over that. "Preacher," he pled, "please don't let him in. Don't let him have me. I'm not ready to go." So I dutifully took up my post at the door. I locked the door. I didn't let anybody in except medical personnel, a few family and friends. "Family and friends, help me!" We leaned against the door. But 2 weeks later, the doctor came in and said, "I'm sorry." And I heard him whisper, "Step aside. I'll take over from here." "Preacher," he said, "bolt the door." I put my weight against the door. Everybody, we leaned against the door. And then one night he lost ground, gasping, and the door was cracked open despite our efforts. There was a hissing whisper from the other side. "Step away, you church people. Step away from the door. He is mine now." "No," we said. We leaned against the door. "No!" But at sunrise, I was surprised when he greeted me with, with a smile, and he said weakly but defiantly, "You know, lying here, I've had a lot of time to think, and I've thought back over my life. I've thought back over those times when I wasn't thinking about God, but it turns out God was thinking about me." And I think about all those times when God just showed up uninvited, and I'm thinking, "If Jesus has gone to all that trouble to be with me," I'm thinking, "He ain't gonna let a little thing like my dying Stump him.

Live or die, I kind of think I'm owned by Jesus.

And I heard death sigh. I heard him trudge down that hospital hall. I heard the door slam behind him. Death's hands empty, just robbed of his great trophy. Okay, listen up, this is going to be on the final exam, and it's probably my last trip to the cathedral. Uh, let Paul tell you your last best hope. If the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, that one who raised Christ from the dead will give you life in your human bodies. Or as Paul put it elsewhere, whether we live or Live or die, we belong to God. Amen.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or for a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Have you ever thought to yourself, man, I'd like to host my own podcast? Well, guess what? You can go to podbean.com/voices and get everything you need to create, manage, and promote your podcast. I use Podbean every week for Voices in My Head. There's easy uploading and publishing tools, stunning templates, custom domains, social and promotional tools, an embeddable podcast player, player, monetization tools, and more. It is your all-in-one podcasting solution. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile ready right from the start. So go to podbean.com/voices, and when you sign up, use the code voices and you'll get a sizable discount. Podbean, for your home podcasting. Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.