Jenny and Tyler - Part of Me - Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast) Episode 433

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. And by the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so grateful that you are here with us for another great conversation today. My guests today are Jenny and Tyler. Jenny and Tyler have toured with such artists as Sarah Groves and Brandon Heath, have been spotlighted on Andrew Peterson's popular Behold the Lamb of God Christmas tour, and their songs As Long as Our Hearts Are Beating and This Is Just So Beautiful were featured on the hit television series Pretty Little Liars. The couple has released multiple critically lauded studio recordings, including 2010's groundbreaking Faint Not, Open Your Doors. In 2012, Of This I'm Sure in 2015, and There Will Be a Song in 2018, along with 4 EPs and a Christmas album. Their latest single and music video, Part of Me, written by Jenny, inspired by watching their 2 oldest daughters, Jane and Sarah, process the events and challenges of the past year of the pandemic. Jenny and Tyler have stopped by the podcast for a visit today to tell us more, and I'm so grateful they have. Jenny and Tyler, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us, Rick.

Well, I'm so glad to have you here. And just so the listeners at home that are listening today, whether they're in their car or running or wherever they may listen to this podcast, uh, they might hear my dogs barking in the background a little bit, or my son. We haven't quite started school yet because it starts in a couple days, and we've got brand new dogs barking, we've got my son playing in the background, and you guys know how it is because because you've got a house full of children as well.

We do.

Especially with, uh, you know, pandemic life over the last year and a half, everybody has had to adjust just a little bit. And that really makes this part of our conversation, I think, appropriate. We've all had to adjust to new ways of doing things, really, over the past— it, gosh, it feels like, you know, this has been the longest 10 years past, packed into the last year, you know. It feels like in a lot of ways. But I've watched my own child, my own son who's here today. You know, he's dealt with a very difficult pandemic year. He's, he's 8 years old, so you know, he's right in that elementary school age. Um, I am the husband of a teacher who teaches, uh, children with special needs. She's a preschool teacher. She loves her students. And as I listened, uh, to your new single and I watched the music video, it really spoke to me on a very deep level. I loved seeing the images, I loved hearing the words that went along with it, and I would love for you just to share the story behind the song and tell us a little bit more because I know that there is a really beautiful story behind all of that that has to do with children and the way that it— they have been affected throughout this pandemic.

Yeah, so Yeah, so I wrote Part of Me really as a response to just watching my kids deal with the pandemic and just all kinds of fear and anxiety that they'd never experienced before. And that I certainly, you know, I had a really positive upbringing and I did not deal with anxiety and stress as a kid. And to watch kind of everything that they loved just be stripped away very suddenly. You know, they came home from school and just never went back to school, didn't get to say goodbye to teachers or friends, and everything they did became virtual. We just never went back to church one day, you know, and for a while they couldn't see their grandparents. And to watch them have to kind of deal with that all at the same time and not fully understand why, you know. And, and even we didn't fully understand why at the time, you know, we didn't understand what was going on fully. Um, to watch their little minds try to make sense of this, uh, was a— was honestly heartbreaking in some ways. And, um, when school did start, a lot of this came— the song came out of just watching them have to do virtual school as well. Um, when school did start back up Uh, last year Sarah was in kindergarten, so she started school virtually in kindergarten. And, um, I honestly feel like that's one of the— virtual kindergarten is just a really horrible idea. Like, it just doesn't work because these kids don't read, so they don't know how to use a computer. And, um, it's just stressful. It was so stressful for her. Um, so suddenly we're having, you know, she goes from being this very just even kid to having massive meltdowns before every Zoom call. Um, and one day I just, I remember looking at her and thinking, this is not who you are. Like, this is not who you are. And it's upsetting that anyone's asking you to even do this. Um, And I was struck by how hard it is, but also how resilient and amazing the kids are. Because in that same moment of looking at her and saying, "This is not who you are," I'm thinking, "But this is who you are. You are amazing and you are resilient and you are strong." And so, yeah, the song just came out of that. I was sitting at the piano and just started singing, "You are a part of me and I'm a part of you," because we literally are, you know? But in a, you know, on the greater, grander scale, we did have to find ways for all of us to stay together, or we still are having to find ways to stay together over the last year and a half. It feels like a long time. And the, just in the video, you see people from, it's not just our kids and our family, it's, all different kinds of people. Some of them are friends, some of them are people we've never met before, but people just finding ways to be together with like virtual birthday parties. Or, um, it was— speaking of teachers, there were a couple of teachers that sent in clips for this video who were just incredible. Like, this one teacher is dressed up as Princess Anna, dancing in front of her computer. Um, she has a puppet at one point. I mean, just like the way that she was— continued to be a part of her students' lives and clearly loved them was overwhelming. And just, it was gorgeous. And, um, I imagine those kids felt the love from her too. So yeah, I was like kind of a long-winded way of saying that the song's just about staying together.

Yeah, really. Yeah. Well, that adds so much context when you're hearing it too, and it really helps. And, and I think so many of us who are parents and who have experienced that relate. Uh, I, I already mentioned my wife this morning who, um, was told when the pandemic started, well, you've got to do preschool now online virtually. And, and she was like, how do I do that? Everything is so tactile. Yeah. And And so it was a real struggle. And how do we communicate, you know, how does she communicate, you're, you're welcomed and you're loved, and, and even keep their attention? And then parents figuring it all out. So you, you just, you were able to, to capture something in the writing, and I think in the feel of the video too, just bringing about all those stories together. I think even if Um, the, the song by itself is beautiful alone. I almost feel like even if you didn't have any sound on, just looking at the, the imagery, um, it's almost like this time capsule, uh, of a moment in time, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I, and I don't know if that was your intention or not. Um, I, I have a feeling though that as people will look at this video in years to come, as they come across it, it might be a little more meaningful in some ways. It might be one of those things that, that people can look back to like 15 years from now and go, hey, you remember that, you know, pandemic? This is kind of what it was like. This is what we were doing, you know, like, yeah. Um, and I find that very interesting because a lot of artists right now, myself included, I've recorded a couple of music videos, um, during pandemic time and trying figure out like, how do we make this while distancing, but we're not going to wear masks and do stuff. And I find that like on TV shows and things like that, everybody's kind of in the plot ignoring the pandemic, you know. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get out of this, it'll be gone. I, I really like that in this song you as artists have really kind of embraced it and just shown this moment in time. And, uh, I, I just wonder, was that really part of the plan too in making this like, did you want to have a moment as kind of a timestamp musically and artistically? Did you feel like that together, like, when you were making this, like, this would be a good choice to have, you know, something like that just as a kind of a monument?

I felt that way, yeah. I think, yeah, monument, time capsule, chronicle, those are all appropriate words.

Yeah, when we asked people to contribute video, our— the way we worded it was, we just want to see what pandemic life looks like for you.

Yeah.

And so for some people, it was very socially distant and masked, and then for some people, it was just like a lot of family time. Um, one of the first clips is of a dad giving his kid a haircut in the kitchen, you know, and that to me is so pandemic life because for a long time no one went to get their haircut. Um, yeah. And so yeah, it's like at all these different moments all together, but for sure we definitely wanted it to be— to, yeah, to capture this moment. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. There was, you know, I'm thankful that I'm bald and my idea of a haircut is my wife grabs the clippers every now and then and just goes, you know. But, uh, but there were— you're right, there were a whole lot of bad haircuts going around at that time, and I had never been so grateful that I didn't need the services of a barber. I was like, you know, people like me, we're kind of, uh, we've got the advantage at this point. So that was good. Well, I wanted to ask you too, um, it sounds like your daughter Jane— it sounds like all of your kids are remarkable, by the way— but I was reading the story about your daughter Jane and, uh, and this socially distanced cookie sale that she came up with the idea for that really was inspired from this pandemic. And I wonder if one or both of you could share the story behind this too, because it really became quite an accomplishment and really, I think, became a benefit for the Nashville Rescue Ministry there, which years ago, actually, when I was a college student in Nashville, I remember serving at with one of my church groups there in town. So it has a special meaning to me to hear that this was, uh, was something that she is connected with as well. But I'd love to hear that story.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, I would say that Jane, you know, as the oldest— she's 8 now, she was 7 when this— when the cookie stand happened. Um, she has been more aware of just all of the— I mean, 2020 just being a really insane year. Um, politically and with the pandemic and with racial tensions. And so she's been very aware of that. And she's had a lot of moments where she said to me, "Is this going to be forever?" And I said, "I don't think it could be forever." You know? And she's like, "How do you know?" And I said, "Because we can't live like this forever." But it was actually on January 6th, 6th, I believe, which was the Capitol insurrection. Um, I told Jane what had happened and she said, why would anyone do that? Like, why would anyone do that? And I said to her, well, if you really believe in something, if you really believe that something is true, um, you'll do something about it, even if it isn't, you know, people— I don't want to get all political about it, but differences and can inspire hatred and violence. And, um, she said, well, somebody needs to do something about this. And, um, it was sweet because it was cool to see a kid not just like complain about it or say, I can't believe this happened. And like, we were very much in the negative aspect of it. And she said, you know what, I need to do I don't, she didn't even say it, but somehow her little mind and heart went from, this is horrible to what can I do to bring something positive into this moment? And so that was the night that she said to me, I think I want to have a cookie stand in our front yard and we're going to raise money for the homeless. And I said, that's a great idea. So she and her sister Sarah made flyers and rode their bikes around and dropped them off at neighbors' houses. Told all the teachers. We live right next to our school, so it's really easy for the teachers to come and, uh, all our friends. And we put it out on social media. And so she stood in the— she stood out on like the coldest day of the year, um, in our front yard all day long. Even the UPS driver stopped and bought cookies. And it's terrific. It was awesome. And from all the— there was a lot of support online too. So she ended up raising $1,000 for Nashville Rescue Mission. And she looked at me that night and she said, Mama, maybe I really am going to change the world. And I said, you definitely are changing the world, Jane. Yeah, it was such a, it was such a sweet thing to watch her get so excited because I think as adults sometimes we are so jaded and don't think that anything we do will make that much of a difference.

Yeah, I think that's, that's powerful. I was just thinking, just, just last week on, uh, the episode of this show that I released, I was talking about a book that was released recently called, uh, What on Earth is Heaven? And in that book, the, the author makes reference to a C.S. Lewis story, uh, from— I believe it's from the book The Great Divorce. And, and he talks about the this woman in heaven that he sees, and she's just treated like a queen, and everybody's just, you know, making a huge fuss over her. And, and, uh, and the character says, well, that she must have really been something on earth. And they said, no, she was just somebody who really loved well, you know, in her corner of the earth.

And I—

it made me kind of think of that. And when you were talking about her changing the world, and I was thinking, you know, the idea that in the kingdom of heaven, um, you know, the greatest are those that find ways to be like Christ in their particular corner of the world, you know, and they do something about it where they are. And for where she is at and the place and time that she is and the age she is, um, she's, she's doing some really big kingdom-minded, minded things, you know, just, just right where she is in that small corner of the world that have huge effects. And I think in the kingdom of heaven great things are being done, you know. I just, I love that. So I, I think that's a pretty powerful thing. So what, what a beautiful story, and thank you for sharing that today with me and, and the listeners. I think that's powerful. Well, I think in the, the, uh, the music video for Part of Me, we, we see a lot of remarkable people, and I'm glad that so many people took the time to share videos. So I want to encourage people listening today, if they haven't had a chance, uh, to watch the Part of Me video, uh, I'll, I'll I'll make sure and put a link to it on our podcast page as well so people can just easily click through and find it. But that really does add a lot to the song. But I want to ask you a little more broadly than just even that song itself today. I know that the artists have had a lot of time to think over the last year and a half, maybe more time to reflect and write. In some ways, maybe we've had less time because We've been, oddly enough, even though we've been at home more, it's been busier because we've been doing online school and we've been trying to do all the things that have had to be done that, you know, we've— it's just been doing other things that have made us busier in some ways. But I wonder, just, I like to ask artists these questions, what they've been learning, like, throughout the pandemic time. And just when we thought we were coming out of it, it seems like, hey, it's rearing its head again, you know, with these new variants that are coming out and all that. But, but I would love to know, um, just what are some things that maybe as artists or as believers, maybe just as human beings, what are some of the things that you're learning? Maybe some things that God's teaching you that you're kind of latching on to during these times. And, and it doesn't even have to be anything huge or profound, but I always find that each of us are maybe finding things out about ourselves and others that if we hadn't lived through this difficult time, we wouldn't have stopped and taken time to notice. So I just wonder if there's anything like that in your lives that you're finding.

Yeah, yeah. For me, I am unlearning something that I learned in 8th grade. When one of my good friends called me a poser, and it was just devastating when he did that. I remember, uh, running through the hallways crying, just, just like, it was like I was exposed because I was a poser, and, and this kid probably was too. And I didn't know that at the time, but I was like, man, he just exposed me in front of all these people. And I don't know who I am. I am posing, you know? And I remember running down the hallway and running past the person that I viewed as was like the coolest person in the class. And he was, that kid said, Tyler, man, what's wrong? What's going on? And I was like, Nothing. Like, you know, like just, uh, just totally ashamed. And, um, it was at that point that I resolved to not cry in front of people anymore, uh, as a middle schooler. Um, and then that— I feel like that resolution, uh, transferred into high school and into college and then even into after college and into our marriage. And, uh, to the extent that I feel like— I'm 36 years old right now and I'm still fighting that. And I've seen over the years men, uh, who love the Lord and who I respect, who are older, cry. And I'm like, man, I want that. Uh, I, I feel like that's something that that I still don't have the way that I want. But for me, the pandemic was part of that unlearning process. And back up even a month before the pandemic started, my sister, my only full-blooded sister— I have two half-siblings— she passed away in February of 2020. And then 2 and a half weeks later, my cousin who was older, a distant cousin, but somebody else close to someone who felt like a dear friend, a surfer, a pastor, a music lover, like we connected on, on various levels, and he passed. And then, and then And fast forward, maybe, yeah, in January of 2021, another dear friend passed. And so COVID, this pandemic time for me was the time and still is a time of letting sad emotions just come and crying and just being okay with crying. And so I feel like there has been that, like, soft— there's been a softening, uh, that of my heart, of my callous, like, 8th grade resolve to never cry self.

Yeah.

Uh, and I'm very grateful for that. Even this morning I was taking a walk, and overcast days kind of, uh, trigger the, the memory of my sister, um, because it was on an overcast day. Actually, it was light rain. When I found out the news of her death. And just a lot, like, I feel like I'm getting to be more human, like I'm getting to be less kind of robotic and like, I don't feel emotions, you know, kind of that sort of person. And so that has been maybe the greatest gift, the greatest reflection that greatest thing I'm learning during this pandemic.

That's really, that's really good. And you probably don't know this about me, and there's no reason you would need to know this, but on Twitter I actually run this account where all I do is post quotes from Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers from Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. Yes, and, um, it's, it's called the, the site is called just @MrRogersSay, and it literally is just Fred Rogers quotes is all I do. And, and because you said that, and, and, and I, I want to hear from you too, Jenny, about what you're learning in a minute, but if you don't mind, I want to share with you one of my favorite Fred Rogers quotes, if you don't mind, because I don't mind, because, uh It speaks exactly to what you said.

Well, we are huge fans of Fred Rogers, and we too, uh, if you, if you follow us on social media at all, um, from time to time post Fred Rogers quotes.

Awesome. Well, I may have to tag you in this one today. I'll, I might post it as the quote later and tag you in it, but it says this: People have said "don't cry" to other people for years and years, and all it has ever meant is "I'm too uncomfortable when you show your feelings." don't cry. I'd rather have them say, go ahead and cry, I'm here to be with you. And if you ever can hear that in Fred Rogers's voice, uh, yes, go ahead and cry, I'm here to be with you. Um, I think, I think one of the hardest things about this pandemic for us to, to just maybe wrap our heads around is we, we have, and you have obviously faced a lot of loss. And the fact that we're so bad about just sitting with that loss and sitting with each other and allowing ourselves and just saying it's okay and it's all right to, to let those emotions show. So, um, yes, I, I feel very, um, honored that you shared that with us today. And I want to also say I'm sorry for the deep loss that you have endured and felt. But I want to thank you for sharing that very sacred loss with us today, and helps us to know how to pray for you too as you go on. So, so you just go ahead and cry. Take the advice of Fred Rogers, okay?

Okay.

And we may all cry before we're done here today. Anyway, but thank you for that. Well, um, and, and Jenny, maybe you've, maybe you've already shared some of this through the, the songwriting that you've shared, but I'm wondering too if there's, there's anything that you've especially kind of latched on to and been learning through this time.

Yeah, I think one of the things I've learned is that I need to just, when moments of inspiration or creativity come, I need to just lean into them even if the timing doesn't feel right. Um, just having all 4 kids at home all the time, uh, the last year and a half, except they just started school last week. And actually, the reason you don't hear any children right now is because we have the youngest 2 in a Mother's Day out. So now we have 2 days a week with no children, but for a while, you know, it's like you're not going anywhere to do any, uh, I used to go to coffee shops a lot to do writing and, um, be creative. And now it's like that was really taken away and having all the kids here and there just not being any quiet. Um, but last summer we got an act, like a live piano for our living room and writing in the midst of all the kids being home and crazy and climbing on me and asking for snacks and stuff has been wonderful. I mean, maybe not wonderful, but it's been a learning experience and just learning to go with it and write in those moments anyway. Like, Part of Me was written that way. Um, at the very end of the video, there's like a little snippet at the end where— and that's exactly what it looks like whenever I am writing, but usually there's a kid in my lap or something. Um, so just learning to say, you know what, the timing doesn't feel right for this, but it is— this is gonna be it. And, um, just going for it has been really sweet. And, um, I've gotten some really funny voice memos out of that, of like, there's this one of Mary just screaming and screaming, stop the music! And then at the and she says, "I want to color!" It's really wonderful.

She's our— she, at the time, she was 3.

Yeah, she's 4.

Yeah.

And so that's been sweet. And then actually just last week, because I feel like it was because I did that, because I wanted to just be in that space, Sarah came over and sat down next to me and she started singing a little bit, just the name, um, that God is her, uh, her strength and her shield. And I said, maybe should we write a song together? And she said, yeah, I want to write a song. So we had our first co-write of what wasn't, you know, we write a lot of silly songs, but this was like an actual song. And, uh, she said Mama, do you think Jenny and Tyler could sing this? And I said, I don't know, maybe. But it was kind of sweet to see that I probably before the pandemic, I would have said no, I need to get out of the house to write or go somewhere quiet or not being around all these people. But since I just said, this is the reality, and I'm just gonna go with it. Not only did we get some like some songs, but Sarah and I wrote a song together. And that might not have happened otherwise.

That's pretty great. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That is really great. So your first co-write, mother-daughter. That's it.

That's—

I love that. Well, and, and that is one of the, the toughest things, and you know, that's kind of how songwriting happens too, isn't it? Like, it's, it often happens when you're, you know, you're— I think a lot of us romanticize the coffeehouse scenario. And yet so often the real— the really good ones happen when like, we're at a restaurant and we're like, you have a napkin? I need something to write on. You know, it's kind of like, it's so noisy, but I got it. So I had one hit me the other day when I was mowing the yard. And I'm like, I've got to— I've got to write something on my phone. I, you know, it's crazy when the inspiration hits at the worst possible times. But that's just maybe how creative God is. He gives us those moments and says, look, I'm going to show you it's not all about you and you need other people, you know, to do this right. Well, it's been so good to talk to both of you today, and it's been good for my heart, I feel like, to be able to hear the stories that you've shared. So I want to thank both of you. I'm going to put links to the song and to your website and more information about you on on our Substack page for the Voices in My Head podcast. And also you can find it at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com. And we are going to close the podcast today by playing the new single, Part of Me. So we'll just close out the show with Jenny and Tyler. So thank you so much for, for being here. And if you ever make your way near to the Springfield, Ohio area, the coffee's on me.

I'd love to.

Meet up with you guys sometime. But, uh, for now, thank you so much, Jenny and Tyler, for being two of the voices in my head this week.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was such a pleasure.

Yeah.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. There's 6.

I look into your eyes, I see a twinkling light shining ever so brightly. I look upon your face and I see amazing grace, and I am mesmerized.

You are a part of me, I am a part of you. We'll see each other through this.

I'll hold your hand and I'll never let go. Your little hands are tired from holding all this stress. This big world is I'm such a mess now.

Oh my love, I understand.

You were never meant to know this. Come lean on me instead.

You are a part of me, and I am a part of you. We'll see each other through this. I'll hold your hand. You are a part of me, and I am a part of you. We'll see each other through this. I'll hold your hand. And I'll never let go. Pain will come and pain will go. Oh my God, I'll never go. You are a part of me, I am a part of you.

We'll see each other through this, I'll hold your hand.

You are a part of me, and I am I'm a part of you. We'll see each other through this.

I'll hold your hand and I'll never let go.

I'll never let go.

I'll never let Oh, I look into your eyes, I see a twinkling light shining ever so brightly.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.