The Good Life with Derwin L. Gray - Episode 368

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James.

I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to Please let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSays. Where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here with us again today. Everyone wants to be happy. We spend money, time, and energy chasing after the good life and we run ourselves into physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion on the way. But what if the happiness we're all striving for isn't the happiness we were created for? Well, in his new book, The Good Life, former NFL player and current pastor Derwin L. Gray explores the path to true happiness, a life lived with Jesus, embracing the Beatitudes, which are found in Matthew chapter 5, verses 1 through 12. Gray believes that as you walk through these verses, you will discover a new, life-giving rhythm that cultivates a flourishing, happy, and transformative life. That through the Beatitudes, Jesus invites us to experience his kind of happiness as citizens in his kingdom. It's a picture of how God's people under his rule and reign of grace should live on earth. As he encourages readers to explore the words of Jesus, Gray delves deeper into each beatitude and reveals the shocking countercultural path to thriving, a path that comes not through wealth or fame or laughter, but poverty, obscurity, and mourning. Pastor Gray has stopped by for a visit today, and I'm so happy that he has. Derwin Gray, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor for me to be here with you.

Well, I am so glad to have you. And you know, you are the founding and lead pastor of Transformation Church. Church, which is a multi-ethnic, multi-generational, mission-shaped community in Indian Land, South Carolina, just south of Charlotte, North Carolina. And with the world in lockdown right now, you know, ministering to our congregations has become quite a challenge, maybe more challenging than ever in some ways. I'm just wondering as we begin, how are you and your congregation holding up right now?

Well, I think at the beginning, right, we We all experience, I think, shock and disbelief, and then we move into grief. And so, we are, as a congregation, we're flourishing. We are doing incredible. And I think a part of it has been teaching our people how to lament. One of the Beatitudes, the second, is, "Blessed are those who mourn or lament, for they will be comforted." And so really, as we deal with the unbelief and the shock and you move to grief, one of the things about lamenting is it allows us to have solidarity with Jesus and also solidarity with everyone else who is suffering, that Jesus on the cross experienced our suffering. He knows our pain. And when we mourn, in essence, we're saying, "God, this hurts. This isn't right." And we long for you to make it right. We long for you to heal the hurt. But in the midst of our lamenting, we're comforting because we know he rose out of the tomb. We know that he understands. We know that we have the power that raised Christ from the dead to live in us and that his grace is sufficient. And so I think that really energized our congregation. We're feeding about 325 families a week through our mobile food pantry. Wow. Delivering food to healthcare heroes at hospitals and doing like little mini parades for them and just encouraging them because they are on the front lines. And so it's really interesting. Our online viewership has grown by 400%—Wow!—in the last 5 weeks. For Easter, we had about 117,000 people watch the messages. Our giving has gone up. And so we're— We are seeing growth and revival types things, and I think that God has used this COVID-19 coronavirus as a way to kind of— like the word picture I see is that we've built sandcastles on the beach, and a big wave comes and it just knocks it down, and we go, "Okay, we really need to build our house on the rock," and of course the rock is is Jesus. And the things that we thought that were going to make us happy, you know, the stock market tanked, the economy tanked, we're losing status, we're losing privileges, we're living in fear, and all the things that we put our trust in, it's like, oh man, wait, I really need to hear from Jesus afresh. And so, um, this book is at the right time. Yeah, Good Life, like This is at the right time. Obviously, I wish it wasn't because over 50,000 Americans have died and the numbers are much higher worldwide, but I do think that the Lord is really using this so that people would hear him afresh.

Hmm. Well, thank you for sharing that, and it is heartening to be able to hear about what God is doing. And I've had about 3 guests in a row that are pastoring in some capacity or another at their church, and it's, it's been really good to hear the ways that God is moving in in this time in ways that we wouldn't be experiencing without it. So we're grateful that God doesn't need us sometimes face-to-face to do his work. And so I'm glad and heartened by what you've shared tonight. So I appreciate it.

Yeah, and if I could add one more thing too, is, you know, the church is the body of Christ, not the building. Sure. And we live in a day and age where there's technology. And so like we've been using Zoom for our small groups. We've been using them for all of our meetings, and I actually think that online means of connecting and gathering people to Jesus isn't going away. It's only going to strengthen, but I also believe that when we are able to meet again, I think people are just going to flood back to the gathering of Sunday morning because the average Christian in America attends weekend services 1.8 times per month, which— so basically 2 times a month. And I think when we come back, people are going to go, "Man, I was neglecting the gathering on Sunday." And so we're actually probably going to have another service because we're expecting it to move from 1.8 times a month to like, "Man, we're going to be there every single week." And if that happens, Good gracious, that's, that's just going to be bananas. And so we need to prepare for that. But I think online as means of communication, and in this day and age with, uh, Gen Z and millennials and unbelievers, for a lot of times they'll watch online for months before they ever come in person.

Hmm, that's fascinating, isn't it? That's a whole, whole new world that we're kind of moving into right now, for sure. Well, you know, you mentioned your book a few minutes ago, The Good Life, and I see it up on your shelf behind you there. Yeah, I've got a copy right next to me today, and I'd love to talk a little bit more about and dive into it. And in the book, you are very transparent about your time in the NFL and your search for happiness, and you share many of your struggles and vulnerabilities. And you actually write about your time playing for the Indianapolis Colts as being a very lonely time for you and your wife. And I, I wonder if you would mind sharing a bit about your struggles in those years when maybe from the outside looking in it might have appeared that you had everything a person could want, and yet the focus of your book is that the Beatitudes really have us finding happiness in different places. And I wonder if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about that time in your life.

Yeah, so what I would say is this, is I was incapable of having true joy and happiness in what I was doing because I didn't know the source of true joy and happiness. So often we think that what we do will bring us happiness, but the reality is who we are is what brings us happiness. And so in the Beatitudes, Jesus is inviting us into his story, into his life, and Every beatitude starts with the word "blessed," like "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven," and then there are several other characteristics of a blessed person. Well, the word "blessed," uh, makaros, actually means happy. And so I was looking at happiness based on external materialistic things, based on job, based on status. In other words, I was basing my happiness on everything that could be taken away. Hmm. And that's not true happiness. And so despite the NFL fame, despite a beautiful wife, despite accomplishing all my dreams, it was like I was chasing shadows. Just when I thought I was going to be quote-unquote happy, something would shatter it. And so Jesus has taught me that happiness is not about external performances, though I like good things to happen, but True happiness is becoming who you were meant to be. Sure.

Wow, that's terrific. Well, you know, is the happiness that Jesus teaches us about in the Beatitudes— is it different, do you think, than what most people think happiness is? Yes. Because generally, like, when we think happiness, uh, what we describe is not necessarily what Jesus describes.

Absolutely. And, and, you know, Jesus, Jesus is like infinitely wise. Um, Jesus is infinitely loving. And so when he invites us to sit down and listen and learn, it's for our good. So like when I was a little kid, you know, growing up in like when I was 5 or 6, you know, it was in the '70s, and, you know, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't have, you know, smartphones and video games on the phone and all this stuff to entertain ourselves. We went outside and played. And one of the things that I would do is chase my shadow. And chasing your shadow as a little kid is fun until you realize you can never catch it. Well, often what starts out as like childhood fun turns into adult frustration and failure. You just give up. And I think for a lot of people, we look at happiness as, okay, I got the job, I'm happy. I got the girl, I'm happy. I got the kid, I'm happy. I got what I was supposed to get, but yet I'm still not happy. Because Jesus wants to redefine happiness Happiness is allowing God to cultivate and form us into a people that actually look like Jesus. So if you look at the Beatitudes, you have characteristics like poor in spirit, which means what I call not confidence, but God-fidence. You're totally relying on God. And then you look at the other Beatitudes of learning how to lament. You look at humility, you look at hungering and thirsting for righteousness and mercy and being pure at heart and being a peacemaker, those things are what happens to you on the inside. Like, God wants to change the inside. So the way when people say, "Well, what's— how can you summarize the book?" And I would say this: being happy is not about always good things happening to you, but it's about God making you good. And so your happiness isn't determined by what's happening outside of you. It's determined by the God who lives in you. Yeah, definitely.

Well, and I love how in each chapter of your book— and you've already elaborated for us a little bit that when you looked up the word blessed, it really means happy. So when it says blessed are, you could really translate that happy are. And in your book, each chapter is dedicated to a different beatitude. So you have headings of each chapter like "Happy are the beggars." My favorite heading is "Happy are the sad," when you said that, or "Happy are the humble" and "Happy are the hungry." And one thing that strikes me about this too, just even as you were talking about it right now, that all of these different characteristics of the beatitudes, they also have such a communal dimension to them as well. Things like "Happy are the merciful," you know, when you talk about that. Well, merciful to who? Well, merciful to others for one thing, and God— the way that God's being merciful to us. Or like you said, being peacemakers, or, uh, just different things like that. I wonder if— is there any particular beatitude, maybe especially as you were writing, that you found, or maybe even still find, to be the most challenging?

I would say in our cultural context, United States of America, The one that I wrestled with the most writing was "Happy are the peacemakers." When Jesus said, you know, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Sons of God is a Hebrew idiom for you reflect God, like you are a godly person. And so Jesus is saying, "Hey, if you want people to really know, and if you want to know if you belong to my Father, you make peace." And so we have to understand the context that Jesus was talking to. Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount is primarily talking to Jewish people, right? And so as he's talking to Jewish people, we have to keep in mind the Jewish people were an oppressed people. Yeah. They were oppressed 400 years of slavery in Egypt. They had the war with the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Zebubites, and then they got taken into captivity by the Babylonians when they didn't follow God. And now that they're back in the promised land, you have another Gentile group, the Romans, who are oppressing them as well. And Jesus is saying, "You know the people who've oppressed you? Go make peace with them." Hmm. And so the difficult part was I knew I had to write about racial reconciliation, that in our day and age, one of the fruit that we are sons and daughters of the Most High God through Christ is that we're building bridges cross ethnic lines. And sadly, even to this day, the Church of Jesus Christ in America is literally the most segregated institution in the country. And so I'm fortunate I co-founded and planted a multiethnic church. And so my church is used to talking about multiethnic issues and ethnic reconciliation and how the blood of Jesus not just forgives sins, but makes a family of multicolored skins, of oneness., right? And so writing in this book, I'm going, man, I'm going to write in this book and I know that they're going to be people going, oh, he's leaving the gospel, he's talking about race. And my thing is, let's take a step back. If we take race out of the Bible, we have no Bible. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, like, like Jesus— so Jesus wasn't Jewish. Like, why does the Bible say the Samaritan woman? Cornelius the Italian. Why does the book of Revelation say in the new heavens and new earth, every nation, tribe, and tongue? And so one of the things that I want to point out is that we as the church, as God's people, can show the unbelieving world this is what love looks like across ethnic lines, across political lines, across socioeconomic lines. And so I wanted to share in that chapter, obviously, what I've learned from Jesus, but what we get to experience at Transformation Church so it can influence the broader church. So what I would say to your guests that are listening is, who's around your dinner table? Who influences you from another ethnic group? And typically for majority cultural people, they're in homogeneous communities. And when that happens, we get stuck in echo chambers of ignorance, and we use words like "they" and "them," and we make up stereotypes when in reality, we don't know them. And so what we found is that proximity breeds intimacy. It's really hard to hate someone and be prejudiced against someone that you're having communion with. Hmm.

Well, that is so true. Well, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, I think you're exactly right. I don't think I've ever heard anybody put it quite that way before, that we can't talk about the Bible hardly if we can't talk about race in it. And just a couple of years ago, I had the privilege of sitting in a workshop with the now deceased Dr. James Cone, who has written several wonderful books over the years. But his last book was called The Cross and the Lynching Tree, and it was all about the idea of you know, that we have to figure out how to reconcile things like that. How do we reconcile things like the church people early in our country being the ones that were doing the lynchings? And, you know, things like that that we have to come together on. So I so appreciate the way that you've addressed that just now and even in the book today. And I rarely talk to a pastor, including my own church, where we don't struggle with this problem of Sunday morning being kind of the most segregated place in town, you know. And I know that most of us are striving to do better and wanting to do better, but a lot of us are feeling like, well, how do we do it better? And I think you're exactly right. It's, it's getting to know people, it's forming relationships, and it's, it's doing a lot of this work that you're talking about. So thank you for sharing your heart for that.

I really appreciate it. Thank you. And, and if, and if I could just add, and I detail this in the, in that chapter on being a peacemaker is we treat everyone like Jesus died for them because he did. Oh yeah, excellent. And, and our hearts, particularly if we're believers, our hearts are not built to contain prejudice, hate, unforgiveness, and grudges. And so when Jesus says happy are the peacemakers, the happiness is we are released from the weight of that junk that we were not created for. Yeah, amen.

Amen. Well, you know, and a lot of what you're talking about too is what it means when we talk about holiness in many ways. And in the book you talk about— you say that happiness and holiness are two sides of the same coin. And I'd love for you, maybe for our listeners today, to elaborate a little bit more on what you mean by that when you say happiness and holiness are two sides of the same coin?

Oh man, thank you so much for asking that question. The first thing that I would say is let's make holiness great again. I think that we conjure up images of holiness of like women can't wear pants or women can't have makeup, so you can't go to the movie. And so let's start with the Bible. The term holiness is an attribute uh, that's essential to God, that he's utterly separate. And so when you look at the Jewish temple, that's where heaven and earth met, that's where God dwelt. And so in order to be holy, there had to be a sacrifice, something to cleanse you of sin. And so Jesus on the cross, he's the new holies of holies, he's the new Passover lamb, he's the new, uh, Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement. And so his blood makes us holy, his blood cleanses us from all impurity, all sin, but his blood also purchases us so that we're now set apart for God's purposes and not our own. And so holiness is becoming a whole person. And what does a whole person look like? A whole person looks like this: loving God and loving your neighbor as you love yourself. And so happiness is growing in response to God's grace, to God, I am so in love with you because of what you've done for me that I actually begin to love myself. Not in pride, that's not love. True love is, wow, Jesus thought I was worth it, therefore I'm gonna love myself because he loves me. And then that moves us to loving our neighbors, which is always sacrificial. It's kind. It's merciful. It looks like the Good Samaritan. That's what a happy person looks like. So happiness and holiness are two sides of the same coin. And so when you look at the Beatitudes, these 8 characteristics of a happy person, it's a holy person. Mm-hmm. We wanna make holiness great again. Yeah.

That's a powerful thought, it really is. You know, towards the end of your book, almost right at the very back end of it, you actually have what you're calling the Happiness Manifesto. Yeah. And there's a 30-day happiness challenge in it. And I didn't ask you to do this in advance or anything because we didn't have a chance to talk about it really beforehand, but I'd love you not only maybe to just talk with us a bit about the Happiness Manifesto and the 30-day challenge, but on page 217 19, you— it's where, at least in my book, that's where The Happiness Manifesto starts. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about it and then maybe even read that for us, which leads into that 30-day challenge so that people can kind of have a better understanding of what this challenge is.

Yeah, yeah, man, thank you so much. This is doing wonders for my heart. But so a lot of my understanding of leadership and discipleship happened as a football player. And so in high school, my coaches were followers of I just didn't know it because I didn't know what a follower of Christ was. But their methodology for growth was, okay, we're going to show you, we're going to teach you, then we're going to empower you. And so I always finish every chapter with a prayer, also with study questions, things to reflect on. And so The Happiness Manifesto is like this daily affirmation to get into my heart like vitamins. Hmm. And then the 30-day challenge is it takes 21 days to create a habit. And so what I want to do is help people to not just read the book, but then begin to live the book, to become advocates of what Jesus talked about in the Beatitudes, right? And so the manifesto is a daily affirmation. The 30-day happiness challenges, I want to develop these happiness rhythms that I can continue. So do you want me to read the manifesto?

Yeah, if you could, that would be great.

I think our listeners would get a lot out of that.

Okay. All right, I'm gonna read it right now. All right, please do. It says this: I, Derwin Gray, I declare that all I would ever hope to be is found in all of who Jesus is. My life is hidden in his life. His life is my life. As a gift of grace, Jesus lived a sinless life because I couldn't. In his, in his unending mercy, Jesus died the death I should have to atone for my sin. Today I am free from the power of sin. Sin and death. Because of His great love for me, I am a holy, blameless, righteous, adopted child of God. I am pleasing to the Father because I am in His beloved Son. The happiness I seek can never be satisfied by created things. The happiness I was created to experience is not found in happenings. True happiness is more about God making me good than good things happening to me. Today I declare that I choose happiness because I choose Jesus, his kingdom, and his glory. Today I declare that I will choose the ways of his kingdom, the truth of his gospel, and live from his life. Signed, Derwin L. Gray.

That's awesome, and I love that you've put that in the book along with with the study questions after each chapter because it makes it so accessible to small groups or maybe Sunday school classes or anybody who's reading this. But I really like that the manifesto is there and you have blanks for people's names and places where they can sign as they're reading this book so that they can make it their own and make it their own pledge too. And the 30-day thing is such a great idea, and I can attest in my own life that having created some good habits along the way, whether it be, you know, learning how to take better care of myself physically or learning certain devotional practices in the morning, they do come after, you know, trying for several days in a row and making a habit out of it. So I really appreciate the way that you are helping those who will read this book find new ways in really implementing their discipleship is really what you're helping us with here. So I so appreciate it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you for sharing that. And you know, before we end our conversation here together, I really had one final question that I wanted to ask you. We are quickly heading into what by all signs will be yet another tumultuous presidential campaign season. It feels like in some way we've gotten a little bit of a break from it because of the virus, and it seems like people have been united in a lot of ways. But In many ways, America is divided much more than it ever has been. And with the pandemic and social isolation, in many ways we are literally divided from each other. And different candidates are going to be offering different competing views about what the good life is, uh, to use the phrase from your book, and what that's going to be for voters. I wanted to pick your brain about how can followers of Christ unified together in times like these when it seems we can be so divided?

Yeah, well, brother, that is a big part of the discipleship that we have to do here at Transformation Church. Philippians 2:5, have the mind of Christ. I believe that late-night cable talk shows, whether on the left or on the right, have discipled the church better than pastors have. Mm-hmm. Most Christians interpret the Bible through a political lens. So a lot of conservatives will see individual sin, a lot of liberals will see structural sin, and the two shall not meet. But however, um, when Jesus is our political candidate, meaning his kingdom we see that it's individual and systemic. It's not either/or, it's both/and. And so what we've been trying to do is to disciple our church to, number one, is this: we are the party of the Lamb, not the elephant, not the donkey. A donkey can't save you, and an elephant can't save you. Only the Lamb can. However, As brothers and sisters in Christ, we can come to different conclusions politically. And I know a lot of my friends on the left who are— well, let me— political left, but theologically, quote unquote, conservative. They will say, "Listen, I don't believe in abortion. I don't believe in other things, but I also don't believe in supporting this president with his character flaws." And then I have my friends who are theologically conservative who are on the right who say, "Can you vote for a candidate who supports abortion?" And so I think we need to take a step back and understand that instead of asking the political right and the political left to do so much, what are we as the church called to do and to be in the world? Because last I checked, I don't remember Jesus or Paul or any of the apostles or anybody going, "I just can't wait until the Supreme Court has our guy." You know, so are politics important? Yes. The civil rights movement, which was led by the Black church and Dr. King, it was epic. It was profound. And so do we need political engagement? Yes. We can have political engagement without political idolatry. And one of the things that I think that COVID-19 has done is it gave Democrats and Republicans a common enemy. Yeah. And so what we have to do as followers of Christ, we have to be salt and light in both parties. And I don't expect non-Christians to act Christianly, but when Christians act un-Christian, then that's a discipleship problem. As Christians, we should be able to engage with each other articulately, compassionately, and lovingly, but also say, Does the political candidate or party I support, how would Jesus fit into that? So I don't think Jesus would say, "Yeah, abortion on demand is a good thing," but I don't think Jesus would say locking up immigrant kids in cages and separating them from their parents is a good thing. And so neither party is going to fully represent the kingdom, so we have to be engaged with humility, but I want us as the church to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. If we in the church aren't treating each other with justice and oneness, how can we expect a government devoid of the Lord to do that?

Amen. And again, a lot of this comes back to relationships too, you know, having relationships with people and getting to know your neighbors and loving your neighbor as Jesus has called us to do. And these were such good words to us tonight, Reverend.

Yeah, let me add this right here, Rick, is loving my neighbor also means this: I care about things that don't affect people who look like me. Mm, yes. Because a lot of times we will love our neighbors individually, but then work for organization that systemically or structurally hurts my neighbor. True. You know, because you can be saved, but if you go work for a bank and systematically and structurally it says the way you give loans to Caucasian people is different than people of color, you can be saved but be supporting an injustice structure, an unjust system. And so we need prophetic, courageous people to enter into the arena. Oh man, I'm about to start crying and preaching up in here. Go for it. We need believers to enter the arena led by the Lamb, not, well, I don't want to ruffle feathers because I'm actually being supported by the system that's hurting my neighbor. Hmm, wow, that is so good.

That is so good. I wonder what a different mindset it would be if instead of, as you referred to before, of, you know, we've got to get our judges on the court or our people here and there. I wonder how it would change our our thoughts, if we thought, what would be— who would be the person that would be the best for my neighbor? You know, who would be the person who would be— you know, how can I lay down my life? I've heard one pastor who's a friend of mine who said one year he gave his vote to an immigrant, and he said, I want you to fill out however you want to vote because I'm going to be out of the country, so I want you to choose. And he put himself in the place of somebody who didn't have all the same privileges and rights. And it was an interesting thing to hear that from a pastor. And he said, I wanted to lay down myself for another in that way. And I just found that so fascinating and refreshing in many ways. Yeah.

And what I would say is my expectation is government and limited. I believe the government has a role. But we give too much power to it and not enough power to the church and God's people.

Yeah, definitely. Well, Derwin, this has been a real pleasure for me to get to talk to you today. And for those of you listening, if you just joined us, Derwin Gray has been our guest today. His new book is The Good Life. It's available from B&H Publishing, and you can find it— links to The Good Life and more on our podcast page at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com. And we'll make sure I'm sure that we have all the links there that will get you to Derwin's website, which is also out there at derwinlgray.com, and you can find out more about his ministry. So thank you so much for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

I appreciate it, bro. You have a good one. Thank you.

Oh, you bet. All right, man.

Bye-bye. Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at Rick Lee James. RickLeeJames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at RickLeeJames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible, this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.