The Importance of Being Ernest: Justin Lloyd talks about the Life of his uncle, Actor Jim Varney - E

Hey friends, this is Rick Lee James. I am so glad that you are listening to this podcast today, and I want to ask a favor of you. You know, this podcast is free and it's always going to be free, but we do have a lot of costs around here. Not only making podcasts, but making new music, paying for production costs, website fees, hosting fees, doing research, marketing materials, and so much more. And you can help us with that if you visit patreon.com/rickleejames, where for as little as $1 a month month, or even a one-time donation, you can help me to continue doing the work that I'm doing. It would mean so much, and it takes such a very little amount of your time. So if you have a chance, go to patreon.com/rickleejames, and thank you in advance for any help that you can give.

Welcome to Voices in My Head.

In My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames Twitter. And please join my mailing list at rickleejames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Gosh, Vern, you trying to kill us all walking around all the time with that weed hanging out of your mouth? Don't you know how deadly that thing is? You're just asking for a case of the big C. Cancer City. Chemotherapy Hotel. I care about you, Vern. That's why I'm warning you. You better give up them cigarettes, buddy, or the groundhogs will be bringing you your mail. Know what I mean?

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here for another great conversation this week. Well, throughout the 1980s and '90s, Ernest P. Worrell, the lovable blue-collar buffoon, was a staple of pop culture in countless commercials, nearly a dozen movies, and an award-winning Saturday morning TV show called Hey Vern, It's Ernest. Today, millions of fans still mourn the loss of actor Jim Varney, who portrayed Ernest, who died of cancer at the age of 50 in the year 2000. In the book The Importance of Being Ernest: The Life of Actor Jim Varney, Jim's nephew Justin Lloyd has created a comprehensive biography that fans were waiting for. The book traces Jim's journey from a child in Lexington, Kentucky with dreams of being a stage and film actor to becoming an iconic entertainment figure. The Importance of Being Ernest has now inspired a forthcoming documentary about the life of Jim Varney. Justin Lloyd, the book's author and nephew of Jim Varney, has stopped by for a visit today.

Justin Lloyd, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you.

Appreciate it, Rick.

Well, I'm such a big fan of Ernest, especially when I was a kid. And just before we started recording tonight, our listeners won't know, but my son came in to say hello, and he's 7 years old, and he has has become a fan actually of Ernest too. And it all kind of got started off just during this pandemic, really, is when it started, because we were watching old episodes of The Beverly Hillbillies and my son asked me, are there any color, you know, episodes or anything? And I said, well, as a matter of fact, there was a movie. And I said, there was a man that, that really was very funny and he played Jed Clampett. In that Hillbillies movie. And that led us to start watching some Ernest movies together. And, uh, so we've just had a great time kind of reliving, uh, those great memories that I had as a kid together with him. And, and you did a great job writing this book. So just at the, at the outset here today, I just wanted to, to ask what made you decide, uh, to, to write a book like this about your uncle and because it really took a lot of time, I'm sure.

It did. It took quite a while. It was a few things. He, you know, he, at the time I started was 2008, and he had, had passed 8 years before that. And I know my mother and my aunt, his sisters, had thought about writing a book, and they had put together some things early on, mostly just kind of the family side of it. And, um, that, that was right after he passed, and nothing really ever came of that. And, you know, I was on— I remember being on YouTube and seeing a lot of videos that people had put together about him, you know, different things about the commercials and so forth. Um, And I was seeing a lot of comments, uh, you know, really positive comments about how he was a hero and all these kinds of things. And I think some of those really got to me because, I mean, I grew up, you know, in the '70s and '80s, and like Superman and Star Wars, uh, were some of my favorite movies. And, um, and it was just interesting to me that, that someone would see Ernest in the same way I saw, you know, Luke Skywalker. You know, you wouldn't typically think of Ernest like in that hero kind of role in a way, but, but I understood that though. And, and I thought, you know, these, these people see— they see Ernest the same way I saw some of my childhood heroes. And, you know, that really spoke to me. And, and then I really was just wanting to, um, to, to give them something back that, that I would have wanted to, to read about my own heroes. And, and the fact that— and then I was also seeing things on the internet here and there, and some of them weren't— they weren't— what's the word for it— they, they just weren't up to date on all the facts sometimes. So I wanted them— I knew just a lot of stuff and I knew a way to get to the information that I didn't have.

Sure.

And, and I knew, I knew people that nobody else knew about. And I thought, you know, I might be the one that can actually do this. This might be something that I could do. So anyway, that was a long—

No, that's, that's excellent. Well, and you know, it's— I love that you chose for the book's cover, or whoever decided on, on the book's cover, you didn't go with necessarily like a picture Ernest, which everybody would immediately go, oh yeah, that's Ernest, because I think you really did a great job of— no, I want to talk about who my uncle really was, you know. And you get this great picture of him on the front cover. And, and, you know, he seemed so— in the movies he was one way, no matter which character he was playing, he was always unforgettable. But it seemed like in interviews he was always very subdued and even almost shy at times. And so it makes me wonder What was it like to grow up with Jim Varney as your uncle? And what was he kind of like when he was just relaxed and being himself?

He, he was really just like, to me, just a really cool person. I mean, he really kind of— I always think to myself, like, he invented like his own brand of cool. I mean, he would just wear like whatever jewelry he thought was cool and like a leather jacket, silk shirt, blue jeans. I mean, his whole getup was just whatever he thought that he, that he thought was, was cool.

Yeah.

And he, he didn't really follow anybody else's lead. And, um, that, you know, fashion, the cars, to you name it, he just was interested in, in whatever. Um, you know, he, he just, uh, you He just led himself really through all that, and I thought that really, I think, had some of an impact on me at an early age. And, um, but he would— he was all over the place. I mean, he would be funny, he would tell stories, he would talk about history, um, he would pull out his pocket knives, start sharpening them at our kitchen table. He was just kind of all over the place. He just loved, um so many different, different things and wanted to teach you about all of them at the same time.

Yeah, and I was— it was interesting to find out, uh, I mean, that he drove a Lamborghini and, uh, and then a DeLorean. Or I'm sorry, not a— yeah, I misspoke, sorry about that, the DeLorean. And so I immediately thought of Back to the Future, um, and which tells you immediately like, wow, this is a, this is a cool guy that has his, his own idea of you know, what cool is. And I also loved reading about his love for watches and the way that he would give those as gifts. Do you know what kind of inspired him to be so in love with watches?

I think it came from my grandfather. And in some of the— like, my grandfather was in the military. And I think, you know, especially like with the knives and swords and things like that, he had a small collection of those. And, um, and I'm, I'm thinking just through those kinds of, of, um, items, it kind of naturally progressed to like watches and jewelry and certain things. Um, and so, um, and then, yeah, I remember my grandfather had a cane when I was a kid and he showed me and had a— it was one of those that had a sword that came out of it from the from the inside. So, and so I'm sure those are the kinds of things that, that got Jim into a lot of those types of things.

He loved jewelry. Yeah, and, and he was into James Bond too. And so that cane kind of reminds me of a Bond villain with, you know, a cane that has a knife.

And that's what the DeLorean was. I felt like I wrote about, like, you know, he, he had the money to buy any kind of top-of-the-line car And he felt he kind of chose something more that was like a James Bond type of car, you know. Although, although they were really cool, I don't know that they were all that expensive, you know, really compared to like a Mercedes or whatever. But, um, it was something more that, that he, that, you know, he liked. He wasn't really trying to really show off as much as just— it was kind of went back to his own childhood and, and things that he really liked. And I think that was like with the jewelry and, and things like that. It was, it was things that really liked and appreciated. It didn't have to be some really expensive name brand. It was something he had researched and he kind of knew the intrinsic value of it and knew the history of it. Those are the kinds of things that he really liked. That way he could talk to you about and teach you about.

And you're right, some of the stories that you tell in the book about him being like playing a character and talking for hours about like the Ottoman Empire or something and just And just keeping people laughing and in stitches, and they'd come back and he's still going on, and he's just still keeping people's attention. That was amazing. Well, you know, your uncle, of course, he was not only Ernest, although of course that's what he was best known as. But as I got thinking about the number of iconic movies that he was a part of, whether it be Toy Story 1 and 2, or as Slinky Dog, or when he got to play Jed Clampett in the Beverly Hillbillies movie, and I wonder how many people actually know what an amazing, like, Shakespearean and very trained, very disciplined actor that he really was. There's just a side to him that I think a lot of us didn't get a chance to ever see.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, I'm sure that's like that with a lot of actors, that, you know, they've got, you know, they're— they have quite a background of coming up through Shakespeare and different kinds of plays and, and so forth, that, and then they get famous for maybe one type of role or one TV show that was real popular, and they get— they're in comedy their whole careers, or TV, or what have you. And, um, and so, yeah, I mean, that he did have that Shakespeare background, and I think he, he was a really good actor. And, and I think, I mean, to me, really, you know, a lot of that does come through in Ernest. People don't see that. I mean, there are different forms of Ernest. There's, you know, the movie Ernest, there's the, like, the TV show Ernest, and there's the commercial Ernest. And, and there are some different types of performances. And, um, And I, I mean, I, I look— I guess I was always more a fan of the commercials because of my age. I mean, I was like 15 when the Ernest Goes to Camp came out, and so I was not really the real demographic, I don't feel like, for that movie so much. And, um, and those are not the types of movies I was even watching at the time. I was not so much a fan of like the slapstick and so forth. So I probably, as far as Ernest goes, much more a fan of the commercials and And I think a lot of people, you know, they see that type of performance, and they just think, well, gosh, anybody can just get up there and say, hey, Vern, and do this. And, and it's, it's really, you know, he made it look easy. And there's a lot to those, like, 28-second spots that not just anybody can pull off all of what needs to be pulled off in that time, you know. And but I think that's part of it. He made it look easy to make it look like anybody could just do it, and nobody's really done it since.

Yeah, well, it's, it's true, and, and it's fascinating to kind of learn how he kind of made that character through the, the, uh, the Cherry, uh, I've forgotten the name of the company right now. Yeah, Cardin and Cherry. And, uh, for all of these commercials. But you're right, and I never had thought about it quite that way until your book of there being like different Ernest at different times. And I think it's interesting that he, he was able to actually do something that is so unique, even if it was like in the things that he would make for children. I was just thinking about some of the scenes, maybe it was like Ernest Goes to Camp, and there seems to be, at least on the screen, this thought of like, you know, he's, he's really fitting right in. Like, nobody's getting the idea like they often would today of, why is this older man hanging around with these kids, you know, or something like that. There's a real childlikeness about him. And I think even— it's, it's so fascinating. I've heard a number of people, and I'm going to put myself in that category because I just watched Ernest Goes to Camp with my son recently. There's a very emotional scene that even made me tear up as an adult a little bit, the part, you know, where he starts singing, gee, I'm glad it's raining. And just before then he, he gives this very— it's brief, but it's, it's just this very powerful moment of, you know, you can tell how much he cared for these kids, and he's, he's crying, and it's a really powerful on-screen moment. And I think you can get kind of, uh, a, an idea of the depth that he really did have as an actor to pull that off.

Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a great point. Yeah, that all of a sudden, you know, in, in that movie, he's not the slapstick, you know, and he can. And, and yeah, he can really get— and I think that's what happened to a lot of the commercials too, even though, you know, some of them were definitely very goofy. But there was that part of him that, you know, it just pulled you in. You had that— you had some of that empathy for him. And there was— it was funny, there was one, uh, commercial in particular where it's this, um, I think it was like a new Christmas party where Vern slams a door in his face.

Oh yeah, yeah.

And they got a lot of reaction from that. It was actually a two-part commercial where in the second part they opened the door and he hits Vern in the face with a snowball. But, and until that second part was aired, I mean, they got a lot of mail that, you know, you can't do this to Ernest.

Yeah.

And so I think that, at least this is what John Cherry had said, that that response to that commercial they felt like he, they felt like, yeah, he had been able to, um, to get the empathy that it would have required to make a movie, that, that he, he was having that effect on people, that, that, yeah, that he could— that character. I don't think they had any, I don't think they had any, uh, doubt about Jim being able to, to, to be in a movie, but to, for that character to of, you know, being in a movie and what do you do with that character for a whole movie, I think, you know, they had some obvious concerns about, but yeah, they were able to, you know, to pull it off. One thing I wanted to bring up I thought was interesting, like when you talk about, when we talk about the commercials and the movies, it's funny because a lot of people don't realize that he got the start in commercials. Well, what's really— to me, what's really interesting, the way I look at it, is that Ernest was really a phenomenon that people— I don't think people really understand just the depth and the scope of all of that. And that I don't know that there's necessarily been anything ever like that, that he— they did thousands of commercials over, you know, really a span on the Ernest character alone, about, what, 17 years, even though it was maybe less than 10 that was really kind of more of an intense. But that instead of looking at him almost more like, oh well, I'm— he was a movie star that used to do commercials, it was more like he, he was like this commercial, you know, phenomenon. Yeah, that went on to make movies. It's almost like the really the other way around. It, it was— he was really much more of a commercial, um, I don't know what you want to call it, but, um, the phenomenon or what. I mean, yeah, that's what I've really tried to point in my book, that if you're an advertising person reading my book, like, that was some advertising history. Yeah, the way they did it, the way it unfolded. I mean, you couldn't do it today with the internet, the advent of the internet and everything, but the whole way they did that was to me really interesting. And I think that was worth really going into some more detail about it. And I hope I didn't bore anybody with that, but it was very interesting to me anyway.

No, no, it's not boring at all. And in fact, I do find it fascinating that he became such a notable sort of celebrity because of the commercials first. And, you know, growing up, it was interesting to me too. I felt like I was always following the path of Ernest in my life because we moved around a lot. And I lived in Lexington, Kentucky for a while. And then at one point, we actually moved to Dickson, Tennessee where they filmed Ernest Goes to Camp, and all through high school I went there, and I felt like, I felt like my life was just like following the path of Jim Varney for some reason.

That's crazy.

But I remember because I lived in that Nashville area that I would always see those, you know, Purity Dairy commercials and the different things that he would advertise there. And you're right, it's a, it's a genius move in marketing that at first he started out as a character for really just one business and then they decided, well, what if we did it for another business and another and another? And I think that was something that hadn't been thought of before.

And they were so adept at working with figuring out what was working and then, you know, being able to really, you know, keep on that. I mean, understanding how he was being perceived as this local person. And so they had these local-looking commercials all over the country. So people in Texas thought he was local to them, and people in Oklahoma thought— because of, of course, you know, the, the look and feel of the commercials, they were, they were local, and everybody thought he was from their town.

Yeah.

And, and advertising, you know, that was huge because they had the trust factor, right? You trust somebody that's a local person that's just, you know, it's not some slick national marketing campaign, right? It's your local, you know, car dealership, right? And, and, right. And so they, they really hit on that and they just kept going local and basically were all over the country just doing Market to Market, you know, just, uh, and so it was really something. Yeah.

Well, well, the other thing you, you had mentioned before, you know, the way that the internet has kind of made the world smaller because you could just go online and see anywhere. But I found it interesting too rewatching some of the commercials, and you'd see things like in one commercial he'd be doing an ad for like Mellow Yellow, and he'd— and they would specifically call out like other brands, you know, like, yeah, like, you know, move from that Mountain Dew over to Mellow Yellow. And then it wouldn't be, you know, too much longer if you watch some of the compilations, then he's advertising for the opposite, you know, going the other way. And in different parts of the country that would run. So it's interesting to see that the way Even just the world has become so much smaller through things like the internet and streaming services and stuff. But yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I was thinking too, and I think a side that a lot of people maybe don't think about with Jim Varney is not only was he not Ernest in real life, he actually had so many facets of his personality. It was interesting too, and even sad a little bit, to read about some of his personal battles that he struggled with, things like depression. And I know that for a while he had a drinking problem that had threatened, you know, some, some of the times on the set and things like that, and, and tragically died from, from smoking and, you know, the lung cancer that went along with it. I was wondering just what your thought was. Do you think that that sort of, that sort of dynamic of him having a problem in a battle with depression— I think, I think he would call it the stares, as you said something about in your book— that maybe acting was a way of helping him overcome that depression in some ways, or was it maybe also a cause of some of that depression because he had so much trouble breaking out of the Ernest character into other roles?

Yeah, I think that he, uh, I, I think that, yeah, that you're, that you're right. I mean, well, I think that, that his, uh Actually, I think being Ernest, I think being in the commercials, I mean, that kept him so busy and he was able to do that basically from right where he lived. That I wonder, you know, my question was, I wonder like if he had become a big movie star, like, like he really, you know, wanted to, you know, starting that and he was out on location. I mean, you think about it, you're out on location and some of these locations, you know, are nice, but sometimes you're just living in a trailer and it's kind of boring. And, and I'm thinking, my goodness, that would have been probably the worst for him, really. I mean, you're a successful movie star, but you're out, you know, in another, you know, on location, who knows where. And that, depending on who's there with you, if you're away from your family— and here he's just working. I mean, he lives in, you know, he lived in White House, just 15 minutes outside of Nashville. I mean, he basically lived right where they were shooting all those commercials. And even You know, a lot of the movies were shot out of Nashville as well. So that, that definitely, I would think, helped him. Um, he stayed very busy. Um, but I think all of that— I think because he wasn't getting the, the medication that he needed for a long time, or— and I don't think he was seeking any, um, professional kind of help, I don't think ever. Um, Since he wasn't doing those things, I think the work keeping him, you know, busy was the, was the best thing. I don't, I don't know that any of it really was hurting him really as far as, is that, is that, is that, that's concerned, you know, as far as that was concerned.

Yeah. Well, you know, I was seeing online too that, and I'm very excited about this by the way, that, you know, it's the 40th anniversary of the character Ernest. It's, it's 20 years after Jim's passing. And I've seen you and some others posting about it, feeling like it's a right time for a documentary to be coming out about Jim and his life. And I wonder if you could maybe update us a little bit on the progress of that.

I wish I had more to really give you. I mean, with the coronavirus stuff, that's really kind of put everything on hold.

Sure.

We haven't had a chance to really get moving with starting out of doing any, any interviews or anything. Um, we're still, uh, what we have been going through, um, is a lot of the, the, the Cardin and Cherry material there. I didn't realize it there. They, um, shot— they took a lot of pictures, uh, during a lot of those commercial shoots. And, um, that was just awesome. I mean, you know, that's back in the '80s where people didn't just take a million pictures. Yeah, have a phone. And so they had, I guess, somebody there taking tons of pictures. And there's lots of negatives and so forth we've been going through. And there's a whole box of other things that we've— that they've got that we're going through. So, and we've posted a few of those kinds of things. I mean, just a couple days ago, I posted a picture from like the— probably the very first Ernest commercial in 1980. And that came from that that stuff. And those are really exciting. I've never seen a lot of that stuff. And, and so we're getting a lot of those kinds of materials, you know, we're able to get going through those and getting those processed. So we're able to do something still while we're waiting to see how this goes. So we can start interviewing some people. I know I'm outside of Lexington, and then Daniel Butler is in Nashville, and then this David Pagano, the director, he's in New York. And so So we, we, we touch base, you know, almost once a week, and we have different, you know, Skype calls, we stay in touch and all that. So, but yeah, we're, we're hoping to, to get some progress, more progress here soon.

Well, that's terrific. Well, we want to make sure too, that on this podcast, if people are listening, I'm going to have links up to all of these things like your biography that you wrote, the Facebook page for Ernest and the Twitter and Amazon and places they can get the book. And, and hopefully that we can find out too more how to help along the process, if there's any sort of crowdfunding or things like that, because I personally would love to see a documentary like that. So on, on, for those listening, voicesinmyheadpodcast.com. We will make sure and have all of those links available for sure so people can find it easily with just a couple of clicks. You know, I was thinking about just the— some of the characters that he played. And, and as Ernest, he played a lot of different characters, even whether it was, uh, I think it was Auntie Nell— Auntie Nellie or Nelda or something like that. Yeah, Nelda. Um, and, and just the different impersonations. I mean, he was such a great actor. But I think there's no doubt that his character of Ernest is probably going to go down in— I would think in American cinema, like characters like the Three Stooges or, you know, L Laurel and Hardy, or just different, you know, physical comedy performances. And I think he's probably already there. One interesting thought I, I had had, and I wondered what your thought would be if it ever arose, just what you would think of this, but a few years ago there was a movie that came out that was— it was really a tribute to the Three Stooges, but it was three different very talented actors that played the role of Larry, Curly, and Moe, and they just did a straight-up impersonation of those characters. And when you watch the film, it It's kind of amazing the way that they were able to capture, like, wow, they really are playing these characters. And it was a nice tribute. I've wondered sometimes, because Ernest really was a character in itself, I wonder what you would think if Hollywood ever tried to sort of recreate with a character actor going in to play someone like Ernest. Do you think something like that might ever happen one day?

I don't know. I mean, for me, I would be okay with it. I don't, I don't know that a lot of the Ernest fans— it's always a tricky thing, especially when, you know, so far he's really been the only person. I mean, you look at like Batman and Superman, now they've had more than one. I mean, I was a huge, huge Christopher Reeve fan, but sure, me too. But, but I understand that that character, how beloved it is, and that, right, people want to see new incarnations and there's new generations and So I don't know. I mean, I would definitely be, be okay with, with it. I, but I mean, I think, I think Jim and I think, I mean, I think Jim would be. I think it just like Slinky Dog, I think it shows that what he, how much he did for that character that they would want to continue it. I mean, I think that's, um, that, that's exactly how I saw them continuing the Slinky Dog, which of course is just the voice, but still, I mean Sure. So yeah, I mean, yeah.

And I always think of him when I hear Slinky Dog. It's just, yeah, it's a great character. So yeah. Well, I want to thank you for taking some time to talk about Jim. I really do love the book. I guess just before I end today, I was wondering if, do you just personally have a favorite memory of Jim, just as your uncle, that you might want to share with our listeners today that just kind of makes you think, yeah, this is a great memory?

Of this man?

I don't know. Probably one of the, one of the best memories I have was at his wedding. He got married, his second wedding, he got married there at his house in White House, and this was in 1988. I was about 15 years old, and, and they had the reception there after the house as well. And, um, he was kind of— after the wedding, we were— he kind of was showing me and my mom and dad and my sister around the house as everybody was already upstairs in the house for the reception. And then, um, he was— and I'm videoing the whole thing as a 15-year-old on our camcorder. And then he sang us a couple songs with a buddy of his there that was, um, his— I guess his best man. And I recorded those as well. You may have seen them on, on the internet. On YouTube. But, um, those were some great memories. And just to see— I mean, like, it was a whole day of just him, you know. You know, he's— of course there's the wedding, but then the whole reception. And of course he's doing everything. I mean, you know, singing and, you know, it's the whole— it's a whole day of Jim, you know. It's a whole kind of show. And so, because he— I think he felt like— I mean, I think I feel like that sometimes when people come to my house, like I have to constantly entertain them, right?

Yeah.

Like they bought tickets to see me or something. Like, you know, sitting there having a good time, but I feel like I have to constantly, you know, do something to keep them entertained. And I think he definitely, definitely had that.

Yeah.

Much more than I ever had. But yeah, he definitely made it a show. And I'm glad that I was able to capture a good bit of that. That on, on video. So that, that's— I can't— I look back and I'm like, I can't believe that's so awesome that I, I have that. That's just, you know, gold now.

So yeah, well, that's, that's terrific. And I'm gonna have to go look those up because I remember reading about the wedding and I, I haven't seen those videos. So that gives me something to look forward to. Well, I once again, I want to let all our listeners know the, the name of the book that she wrote. It's The Importance of Being Earnest: The Life of Actor Jim Varney. It was written by my guest today, Justin Lloyd. Justin, I want to thank you for your time, and as I say to my guests each week on this show, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

My pleasure, Rick. Thank you very much for having me. Enjoyed it.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog book, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.