Voices In My Head Episode #251: The Table with Ian Zumback

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Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer-songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is your source for discussions on music, literature, movies, pop culture, theology, and more. Now sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of the Voices in My Head podcast. And don't forget to let the voices in your head be heard by following me on Twitter @RickLeeJames and sharing your thoughts about today's show.

On the outside of town, in the alleys no one could see. He's been searching for days, maybe years, I don't know, for someone to carry him through. I made him a seat at the table, and I'll show my desires for him. I'll give him the the life that you want him to have. Dear friend, this promise I'll keep. He'll sit at the table with me. There are times when I feel like a beggar. My pride won't let me receive. My crippled feet will not bear me to walk just a mile. Get what I need. But if you're willing, then I'm more than able to reach out and take your hand. But if I'm being honest, I've been fighting your grace, but your kindness won't let me win. You made me a seed at the day And you show your desires for me. You give me the life that you want me to have. When you said this promise I'll keep, you'll sit at the table with me. I'll sit here with you. You made me a seat at the table, made you show your desires for me. You give me the life that you want me to have when you said this promise I'll keep. You'll sit at the table with me. You give me the love that you want me to have when you said this promise I'll keep. You'll sit at the table with me.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad you could be here with us today. This is going to be a great episode for many reasons, but the main reason is that we have Ian Zumback on the show today. His new album is called The Table. It's really good. I have had a chance to listen to it 2 or 3 times now, and it just gets better with each listen. So we're going to be talking to him in just a moment about that album. Before I do, I want to remind all of my listeners, especially those of you who do worship leading that you can, through this show, get a discount to the National Worship Leader Conference, which is going to be happening in May in Nashville, Tennessee. You can go to worshipleader.com and just click on the link for the National Worship Leader Conference, and when you sign up, you can use this code: HAPPYNEWYEAR. It's as simple as that. Just put the code HAPPYNEWYEAR in and you'll automatically get 30% off of your registration. It's going to be at the school I graduated from this year, Trevecca Nazarene University in Nashville, Tennessee. So I am especially excited about being in there this year. We're going to have old friends there with us also. We'll get to see Brothers McClurg. We'll get to see Crowder, our friend from last week here on the show, Andrew Osenga. He's going to be at the National Worship Leader Conference. I think Matt Maher, I think I heard, is coming. They're adding new artists all the time, and so I'm just excited to be a part of that again this year. And I bet we'll even get a chance to see our friend Ian Zumbach there because he lives in Nashville, so we're going to make sure he's around for that event as well. But just go to worshipleader—. And when you go on to worshipleader.com, click on the National Worship Leader Conference, use this code HAPPYNEWYEAR for 30% off. All right, with that being said, we're gonna go right into our conversation with Ian Zumback. He is on the line with us on Skype. Ian, welcome back to Voices in My Head.

Hey, Rick, thanks for having me back.

Man, it is always so good to have you here. It's always fun. My only regret is that we're not just doing this face-to-face because I always like getting a cup of coffee with you or, you know, sitting over some flaming hot Mongolian barbecue that you pick out for me. Yes. Last time we were together, my mouth was burning so badly I was cursing your name underneath. No, not really, but no, it was, it was a fun time. No, you always like to, to pick some interesting restaurants for us to go to. But today we're not talking about restaurants, we're not talking about all that good stuff. We're going to be talking about something I'm really excited about. I know you're excited about it. It's this new album called The Table. So you're not just a little bit excited, are you? Man, I am.

I'm feeling such a mix of emotions. I mean, but I'm mostly excited, truthfully. It's been a long journey, truthfully. But at this point, it feels like a culmination of years of getting it ready and writing for it and putting it together. And so I really, really am excited to share it.

Well, and this has been a journey for you because it's been probably at least a couple of years since you first started collaborating with Brothers McClurg and the guys at Old Bear Studio. And, you know, Chris is your producer, and I, I don't know the, the full long run of it, but you have persevered through a lot and getting these songs written, getting them just the way they needed to be. I've watched you through You know, what can be a really hard thing, which I know because I'm doing now, crowdfunding, but to see you make that crowdfunding goal, to go back, you know, and I think you finished the crowdfunding goal while you were in the studio. Isn't that right? That's true.

In fact, it's funny. We literally, the campaign closed the day that we finished the record. Yeah. And we met the goal that morning. So it was, it was wild.

Truthfully, it was a wild, wild ride. Well, and you know what, I see that as another sign of God's hand on this project too. I know that in my own career, it seems like God has always been more in my interruptions than in my plans, you know. And it seems like there are these things that I do all this scheming and plotting and planning, and I work really hard, and then it seems like God does something that wasn't even on my map to help get get the projects made. And I'm— I think I'm seeing that happen again this time as well, in just different ways. But I remember being so excited, I almost had tears in my eyes when I saw that you were in the last day of recording, and that was the day that your funding finally came through. Talk about stepping out on faith, because I mean, that's it. It is— it's an incredibly costly endeavor, and usually as, as artists, we don't make that money back, you know, if we don't have some help. So. It's an amazing thing just to see that sort of hand of God on a project like this, because I really feel like, you know, he has unlimited resources for us to do those things. I really believe in this project, so let's talk a little bit about it today. It's a new album. If you're listening and if it's already past the 2nd of February, the album has already come out. But as of this time of recording, we're 2 days out from it. I know that the world is going to hear it and just go wild about it. I hope so. Now I want to ask you, because I haven't got the actual CD yet. I have the files that you sent me from when I pre-ordered the project, and I've really enjoyed listening to it. But to be honest, I'm not sure that Dropbox always gets the order of songs right. So I don't know if I've even been listening to the album in its proper order and the way it's supposed to go. Right. Listened through it a few times and then I've uploaded the files to different, like on my phone, to different platforms to be able to listen through and it seems like it keeps changing the order. So you tell me, first of all, what is the number one track on the album when you start out?

The first track is a song called "Down in My Soul." Okay. And that's the one that starts out with my dad's voicemail.

All right. And that's your dad. I was going to ask whose voice that was because I wasn't sure. Who it was talking, but that's really a cool thing. So, "Down in My Soul," tell us a little bit about how that came about and how you got your dad's voicemail and what the content of it was.

Well, that's an interesting one because that song wasn't even on the plans to record when we were actually in the process of recording the album. We were actually trying to record another song and we just knew as we were trying to record this other song that it didn't fit the aesthetic or the sound of the rest of the record. So we had to just basically stop and say, okay, let's, let's call it for the day. And this is about 9 PM, 10 PM at night at the studio. And Chris and I had about an hour drive back to his house because I was staying with him and his wife. And, and we were like, well, what songs should we include? Because now we have a total, total opening for for the tracks. We had necessity to include something, and we remembered that we had written this song after leading worship music at a homeless— like a homeless shelter dinner a year prior to that. We're like, well, why don't we revisit that song? And it just so happened that that night when I got back, it would usually be at the end of the day like a lot of people, and I would browse through my email and social media because I wouldn't have an opportunity to during the day. And I saw my dad post this really, really sad, like, post on Facebook. You could tell he was having a hard time. And he had actually had a few things happen in his life recently that were just— just knocked the wind right out of him. And so the next morning, I got in touch with him and asked him how he was doing. And we had already recorded a voicemail from my son on the album, and I was also planning on including one from my wife for another song. And so I approached him very kindly, honestly, and made sure I wasn't exploiting any pain that he was experiencing, but asked him if he'd be willing to call and leave me a voicemail about where he was at without any, uh, without having to feel the need to say that God was going to come through for him. I just wanted a very raw and, uh, and real expression of where he was at at that moment, because we know God would come through for him, and he did. But at that particular moment, we just asked him to share his heart. And, and it's sort of an invitation, um, you know, for me, music, I've always felt in my personal enjoyment of music and participation interaction with it is there's a beautiful quality of it that, that makes you feel like you're not the only person in the world that feels a particular feeling because you hear it through a record. And there's a lot of people out there that are, that are going through more difficult times than they're willing to admit. And, and so for me, I felt like it was a very appropriate way to even start the album because it invites people into community in fellowship, knowing that they're not the only person in the world that feels that way and has that difficulty, but also props up and sets up an opportunity for us to respond to those emotions and those feelings and the situations that people are going through with the remainder of the album that is a response basically of the gospel to them. And so we thought it was a great entry point for, for the beginning of the record.

Well, it is. It's a, it's a good spot to hear that, and I'm glad to know that was the opening track. And I, I'm looking forward to when the when the CD arrives because I want to hear it all as it's supposed to be heard. And that even includes like, I'd much rather hear it on a CD or even a record or something where I can hear it through like big open speakers and not have everything compressed down to like MP3 size like we do on our phones. And I love to hear it. And I know that from working with Chris myself, I know there's a lot that goes into it that you kind of need to hear those things too in the background. And so I think that's That's a cool touch that you guys added to it. Now, listeners who heard you last time you were on the show, we were talking about one of my favorite songs on the project, Murderer, a Messenger, that features Jessica Crawford. And you guys just killed it on that song, and I think that was really a big help to your exposure. There was a great video that Old Bear made to go along with it. And then really, your follow-up to that was a song that's also gotten quite a bit of play among fans called Entertaining Angels that you did with Brothers McClurg and Carrie Cardendale. So those might be the two songs that people have heard you on here before, might already be a little bit familiar with. But as you know, every album we do, it tends to take on sort of a life and sort of a theme of its own. So almost to the point that— I don't know how many interviews you've done about this album yet, but I know when I do interviews, it seems like a similar theme keeps coming to my mind. It's something I like want to continually talk about and tell people about the album. And I think the table Table was a great title for this because that really feels like the strong overriding theme of this album, this welcome to the table. And I have to tell you, with my last album, Hymns, Prayers, and Invitations, and we had a song called The Invitation that says, this is the table of the Lord, for everyone there is a place. Taste and see that he is good, the bread of life, the cup of grace. I have to tell you that having an album called The Table, which has a similar theme and a similar welcome to it I'm just so thrilled about that because that's personally in my heart what I'm all about. Talk to us a little bit, if you wouldn't mind, because I'm going to play the song "The Table" on the podcast. Talk to us about how this came about, how you landed on that being sort of the theme of the album, the title, and just how you kind of felt yourself being pulled toward that as, I guess I would just call the theme being "The Table." You know, it was a very organic process, actually.

We didn't even know what we were going to call it. And once we got to that point and looked at the overall narrative of the record, we found that the most obvious thing was that it was an invitation, like you said. It was an invitation to interact. With the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I, I guess, um, for me, that would— that, that's the most important thing, because that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, is for, is for people to have this opportunity to come into deeper fellowship with God and, and experience the overwhelming grace of the Lord. So, so the emphasized, um, theme of the song It seems like it's almost like the gospel is the tree trunk by which all the other branches come off of in terms of themes or of hope and of peace can all be found in the sap of the trunk of the gospel. So that's really how we arrived at that place, and it just seemed natural. And I even actually reached out to about 15 people in the Old Bear community when we were trying to determine what is the album going to be called. And that was one of the tracks. And then I had 3 other titles that were possibilities. And there wasn't a single person that texted me back within a period of 2 hours that said anything but The Table and gave me all the reasons why it should be called that. So I was like, okay, I hear you guys.

It's The Table. Well, I love that. And you know what, I'm thinking about times that we've had together, and some of my best memories of being with you have been over a table, you know, whether it's with you and Chris or just me and you hanging out. And I know in Nashville last time we ended up at a Baskin-Robbins, and I— everybody, he was good and he didn't eat ice cream, but I did, okay? I'm just letting you know. That's how it was. I was really tempted to, honestly. I was like the voice of Satan to him saying, "Eat this ice cream," you know, but he He wouldn't do it. He persisted in the Lord. But as I think about that, I mean, I do, I feel like the table as a metaphor is one of the most beautiful ways of conveying the gospel. I don't think it's any mistake that time and time again we see Jesus having table fellowship with the least of these. But he also shook things up in that it wasn't just the least of these that he had table fellowship with. Table fellowship with the tax collectors. He had table fellowship with the Pharisees. He had table fellowship with the rich, with the poor, with everybody. And that was really what was so scandalous about Jesus, was he wasn't identifying himself as any one of those things. His call was always, 'Come follow me,' to everybody in all of those groups. And, and I, I love that the table is sort of that invitation, because to me, when you sit down with someone at the table you've befriended them. And it's really hard to have a meal with an enemy. And sometimes when you sit down to a table with someone who maybe, at least in your mind, feels like the enemy, so many times that becomes a place where fellowship and where walls begin to break down. So I'm really excited about just not only the album The Table, but I really like the metaphor and the way that that lets us kind of open ourselves to the conversation because in my mind, having heard the album a few times now, I feel like the music itself is speaking that message, that this music can be sort of a table that we can gather around with each other. Do you feel like I'm off base in my assessment?

No, I think you've even articulated it better than I did. Well, you're welcome.

You can send the check anytime for that.

No, I'm kidding. I will do this. This. Um, but, but actually, yeah. And, you know, I hear something, you know, similar sometimes where, where if I'm sharing it with somebody that maybe has no, no faith in Christ, that they feel like it's, um, almost a non-threatening and safe, almost safe way to, to hear about the truths inherent in the gospel and, and, and things about Christ. And that really, that's an encouragement to me because actually that's really something that we did set out to do because the more I come into contact with people and I come into contact with a lot of people day to day, I always find that there are walls that need to come down to get beyond, you know, the surface level and to really build trust with somebody and be able to either not just speak into their lives, but just befriend them and love them. And so the album in its approach, I feel, carries that aesthetic and has that sort of spirit on it, that it is as an invite people into this meal, audio meal, so to speak. It feels like a very safe place for people to like come and approach the throne of grace. Just by feeling like they're not going to be made to feel ashamed, you know, or just— and if they're curious, if they don't even have a relationship with God, it's still a safe place for them to come and to hear about Jesus and to find out more about him.

Well, I want to talk about a specific track that we're also playing on the show today called Resurrect Me. And I would love for you to just talk to us a little bit about it. I feel like it's one of the more— I don't know how to describe it exactly— more artistic type song. This has a real interesting feel to it. But I wonder if you could maybe just tell us a little bit of the VH1 Behind the Music story behind that song of Resurrect Me.

Sure, that was a song that, that was started very early in the process of writing for the album. I started it with, with Jessica Crawford, and it was actually, it was during our first writing session of 2017, and we spent a writing session where we literally wrote for 3 hours, and I think the, the bridge came in the last 5 minutes of that writing session, and it took us 3 hours to get to point. You know, we just kept on like throwing ideas, throwing ideas, mining, mining, mining. We just couldn't seem to get anywhere. And then I said that phrase, you know, resurrect me. And we're like, yeah, that's the direction, but our writing session is going to end in like 10 minutes. And so, so, so we finished the bridge and then we sent it to Chris, and Chris listened to it and he sent back an idea about a tag which we ended up turning into a chorus. And then, and then, and then it felt like I couldn't get anywhere with the verses. And so it was like kind of like when you catch a fish, you know, songwriting is like that sometimes. Like you'll catch a fish and it's not quite full grown and you can tell it isn't, so you throw it back in the water and let it, let it grow a little bit more and then go back 6 months later and try to fish for it again. Well, this particular song I knew was going to be on record. I really wanted it on a record. And, um, but I didn't have any verses for until literally the day before I went out to record the album. I had actually gotten news about a friend who, um, who had taken a fall really spiritually, and nobody saw it coming. Nobody knew. And, uh, and it just inspired me to go back to some of the words that Jesus spoke in regards to, um, you know, at the time he was calling out Pharisees, you know, and he was calling out Pharisees about, you know, how in their appearance, you know, they looked a particular way, but inside they were full of dead men's bones. And I just contemplated that in this particular case, there's something going on below the surface of this person's life that nobody knew about. And he was full of stuff that led him down the wrong the wrong path, and there's redemption for that. That was like— was the inspiration, was I had hope for this person and belief and prayer, like, no, this isn't the— this isn't the end of your life. This isn't the end for you. God can resurrect your life even from this, this, this, this death that you're experiencing right now. And so it just reminded me of the resurrection power, and I wanted to, to articulate that in the song.

Well, and I think it has one of the best lines I've ever heard in any song, to be honest with you. When you're talking about the metaphor again of someone taking a spiritual fall, and you refer to it in the song as suicide, is what you call it. And I don't think I've ever heard anyone approach the idea, because when you're making that conscious choice to turn away from what God has for you, you know, we talk about dying to self as being the thing that God calls us to do. But I've never thought of it in that term of like going the opposite way is almost like committing spiritual suicide. Like it's not a dying to self to find new life, it's a literal like killing your spirit. And I just— that's brilliant. Like I've just— I've been thinking about that for— I mean, probably since I heard it the first time, I've never thought of that way. So however the Holy Spirit inspired you to to bring about that line, I think it's actually something that we could preach about, you know? Yeah. And it creates a whole other word picture and a whole other metaphor. So anyway, I just really love that. I think it's a great song. I'm glad that we have the opportunity. Thank you for giving me the chance on the show to play a couple of your songs, and that being one of them. I just love that Voices in My Head gets to be in some small part, kind of part of this launch, because I'm a fan and I tell people whenever I can that you, Ian, are not just a really great songwriter and not just that you have the voice I would almost kill someone to have. I wouldn't really. Oh my goodness. Thanks, man. But you have a really great voice. But you are a good man and a good friend and I have The more that I come to know you, the more I sense the Spirit of Christ in you. You have one of those personalities that you've allowed God to use you in such a way that it makes me thirsty to be more like Jesus. I want everybody to know that that listens today that Ian is the real deal. When he brings you these messages and these songs, this is coming truly from the heart of a guy quest to know Jesus more. So I want to thank you for that.

Oh, thank you, man. I couldn't— through this process, I've heard a lot of people say some things, and that's just— that type of encouragement and compliment, just, it's sort of like, uh, wind on the, on the ember that inspires the flame to, to, you know, aspire and, and, um Boy, I think I've been influenced by Ryan Clare's album because I think that's one of the names of his songs.

I believe you're right. It must be in there.

I appreciate you saying that.

It means the world to me. Well, sure. Well, I mean every word of it. And I want to ask you a couple more things before we go. I don't know how much time we're going to have, but we both have busy days, I'm sure, ahead of us. But let me ask first, is there a preferred method that you prefer people go about in getting the music? Do you like people to go like to your website to get it? Is that your number one preference, or would you prefer they stream it on Spotify? Would you prefer iTunes? I always wonder from an artist's perspective. I have my own preferences of where I like to send people, but when they want to get this album, where would you— if you had your number one choice, where do you send them?

Boy, well, you know, honestly, I really don't have a preference. Truthfully, I feel like it If they're going to get it, they're going to get it in the medium that they prefer. I mean, I suppose iTunes would be great initially because it does seem to, you know, help support the things that we're doing at the label. And so anything that comes through iTunes is going to probably be the highest, I guess, most profitable way to be able to invest back into the label and continue to put out releases through Old Bear. So that's a preferred, I guess, a preferred way. But at the same token, it's about, it's really about, you know, people getting it the way that they prefer to have it. So if they're using it on Spotify, I guess I would just encourage them to add their favorite song to their playlists or let their friends know about it There's also an online store that they can purchase a physical copy through Old Bear Records, which is oldbearrecords.merchnow.com. And then there's iTunes also. Yeah.

And I'm the kind of guy, because I have a car after years of not having this, I have a car that actually has a CD player in it, and I like to get my hands on the actual physical CD to listen. Cool. And so I'm really excited about that. But I always want to give the artist a chance to kind of express that because we all know you can listen to it a lot of different ways. And I have this love-hate relationship with streaming music because I want people to support artists, and there's all kinds of different views on that, whether or not you really are supporting that much through something like Spotify or different areas. But that's a whole other conversation. You can support Ian by sharing about the album on your social media. That's another thing you can do, especially if you really dig the album like I know you're going to when you listen to it. Tell a friend about it. That's just the best thing you can do. Add it to your playlist on Spotify if you listen there. If you're on Apple Music, there's a way that you can post things there to your favorites. You don't know how much it really does help when people do that. And, and when people don't, sometimes there's really great albums that just sit there and nobody has heard about because people aren't spreading the word. And there's just little things like that you can do. To be honest, I'd much rather spread the word about someone like Ian than I would spread news about politics or some other thing that brings everybody down. This is something that's uplifting and really helps in the long run. Let me ask you one more question real quick. How is it that— because I know your family is involved in this, your wife and your son. You even talked about having them on your voicemail with Travis. Through that. How have they been a part of this process? Because sometimes I think as artists, we can, if we're not careful, we can almost make this about us and not include them in the process. But it seems like you've been very conscious to make them a part of it. How have they been a part of this journey with you on making this album?

Boy, I'll tell you, they're the unsung heroes of of my life because they've provided such support and encouragement. And a lot of times even, you know, just for example, when your faith is waning a little bit and you feel like you're insecure or doubting the process and whether or not God has really called you to endeavor to share what you believe he's placed on your heart to do, you know, they're usually the first ones there to encourage me and say, no, you need to do this. You know, this is something that God has called you to. We believe in you. We love you. And continue going out there. So they're sort of like— God uses them in a way at times. And I'll admit, I don't walk around, you know, in the doldrums each and every day, you know, where they have to like pick me up out of the miry clay. And build me up. But there are times, you know, where they can see, you know, maybe my head's, you know, kind of looking toward— I'm looking towards the ground a little bit and walking along, and they acknowledge that, recognize that, say, no, this is what God— God has called you to it, so do it and do it well. And so, so I love them. That's— it's, it's always, um, it's always just great to be able to try to include them in whatever I can. And, uh, but behind the scenes, they are really, uh, they're my cheerleaders and my encouragers.

Well, that's, that's awesome to hear. Not everybody has that as an artist, and it means so much. I have a wife that's like that, and my, my son is 5, so he doesn't really know what I do that much yet, but my wife is way there for me. But they're both encouraging in different ways. Well, as we end the show, I was gonna plug my project anyway. You want to— yes, please. You want to be here with me while I do it? And I would love to. Yes. All right, well, before I do that, I just want to remind everybody, go out and listen to The Table, the new album by Ian Zumbach. It comes out on the 2nd of February, 2018. So whenever you're listening to this, either it's about to come out or it has just come out. So make sure you listen. It's, it's a really good album. Again, I've had the chance to listen to it a few times, and Ian has actually been a real encourager to me. I'm in the middle of— I think I have 19 days left of my crowdfunding campaign which is going on at Indiegogo. I'll give everybody a link real quick that's easy to take you there. You'll go to my website first, but then you can just by one click go to what would otherwise be a really long and hard to remember address. If you just go to rickleejames.com/thunder, um, that'll take you to a page where there'll be a couple things about the project and you literally can click on it, it'll take you right to the page so you can find out more. We have to raise a total of about $10,200. Actually, that's not even going to cover all the expenses, but it'll cover a good bit of them and the recording costs and things. So people have been encouraging, and we're slowly but surely, every day it seems like, getting at least some new donations. And we're offering some great things. We're even giving away a guitar, my very first guitar. I'm giving away through this if somebody gives at that level. Yeah, there's a couple things I'm really excited about. I don't know if you saw online, Ian, but I have a record of the hits from Hymns, Prayers and Invitations. There's literally only one of these records in existence and you have to donate at a certain level to get it, but I'm giving that record away, which is something that is, I hope, really cool to people. One thing I'm doing on this crowdfunding campaign is I didn't want to just give away tracks and things, which I think that's great, but I tried to think about like if I was able to give somebody a gift, like somebody that I really thought was cool and I liked a lot and I was going to be able to give them a gift, what are some things that I would give them? And I almost think like, you know, if you were on my Christmas wish list, what would be something I would give, you know? Right. So I'm giving away like actual, like personal possessions or things that have meant a lot to me. One thing that people are starting to go for books from my personal collection because I read like crazy, or I try to, and things that have been very formative to me. And so they can at a certain level donate to, like, say, I want one of these books, and I'll write you a letter that tells you some things about it that have been so formative for my spiritual formation. Or if it's something that's just fun, why it's meant a lot to me. So there's things like that, there's things like books and music and all other things. But you've been kind of helping me along the way because you've been through the crowdfunding road recently. So what do you have to say about it? I don't even know what else to talk. It's hard to talk about my own project, but you've been such a help.

No, I get it. And I'll tell you, I just want to tell listeners, you should really go support Rick's project. The music is great. His heart is amazing. And it's what we're doing, I think, you know, the neat thing about Indiegogo or crowdfunding that it kind of does without even being intentional about it, it does cultivate the sort of fan experience, I guess, or personal experience or relationship between the artist and the person that's supporting your project. And that's the way I remember growing up with music was like I wanted to have that connection with the artist. Artist. And so you have this opportunity to come and to receive something directly from you that's important to you. And it doesn't really allow for, you know, in an age where we cherry-pick songs from Apple or iTunes or whatever, I personally have missed the experience of like full albums because it gives you a bigger picture of who that person is, and I want to know who that artist is. So Indiegogo is a great way for people to engage with that aspect of your artistry and who you are personally. So I love it personally. I've been scoping a couple of the campaign perks. I haven't fully decided which one yet, but I'm excited about any of them that I plan to contribute towards because I think it's— especially the comic book one. I love that one. I think it's so great.

Well, yeah, and everybody that has known me very knows that I have way too many comic books and I love comics. So that would be a fun one to give away. But at the same time, you know, I've had people that have taken up the perk like come make pancakes with me. You know, that's because— that's cool. That's one thing I love to do, like on a Saturday. I don't do it as often as I'd like, even just because the caloric intake is way more than what I should be doing when making pancakes. But I have, I have a pretty great recipe I have perfected over the years. And one thing that I think is fun to do when I have friends over is, hey, let's make some pancakes. Pancakes and have fun. So I've already had somebody take one of those perks, so they're going to be coming over with their family and making pancakes at my house with me, and I'll get to share my secret recipe with them. So that's one of the many perks that we have to offer. We still have a couple more of the Rich Mullins books that are autographed that are available to people too. We only had about 5 of those to start with, and I think 2 of those have already been claimed. So there's all kinds of different perks on there, and I just love for people to be a part of this whole process of making an album. And you're right, in a sense it makes a community. One thing that happens when you donate, even if it's just like $5 for the one track, there is a way to get music, you know, right away from the album. And one thing I like about it is you can easily like send out fan— not fan, but like, like supporter updates, you know. And it connects everybody sort of on the same page together. I enjoy whenever you send one out from your campaign still to this day, you know, like you're still putting things out and it kind of unites us all together, lets us know what's coming on and kind of is like the quickest way to get news about the artist. So, so rickleejames.com/thunder and making a new record, really need your help. My friend John the other day figured up if everybody that followed me on Twitter was to donate $2.50, we'd have the album made. Made. Um, so, so it's not even a matter of like, like it doesn't even have to be a huge amount if we can just get lots of people to do it, you know? Like, like who, who really couldn't afford like $5? I mean, we said we spend that on coffee in a given day, it seems like, right? Um, and what you're actually doing is trying to help support an artist's music. So to me, when I have my favorite artists, I'm, you know, I pay well over $5 to go see them at a show or to get music from them. So anyway, Indiegogo, it's a fun platform for that. Well, what else should we say, Ian? We're about to sign off from this podcast. Have I missed anything from yours or from my project we should have talked about today?

Well, I guess the only thing I would say in regards to your project for your listeners is that you've really been given just an incredible gift gift in addition to sharing your own music, but to carry on the legacy of Rich Mullins, that you personally were approached by his first publisher to take and to steward a song that he'd written and to share it with the world. And I think that's, that's just a testament of God's, uh, eyes on Rick Lee James and, and seeing you steward your ministry in a way it has been with, with uprightness. And, and so otherwise you wouldn't have had that opportunity come across your plate. So I think, you know, for people that are listening in, what he has is an opportunity to, to continue to share the gospel and have a very unique opportunity to carry on and honor the life of Rich Mullins through this project too. And, and so that's a big deal for, for any, any person that's in the songwriting community community that loves songwriters, songwriters in Christian music. You know, he's kind of the, uh, I guess probably like the Bob Dylan of Christian music in a sense, that did a lot of things that has paved the way for artists like myself and for Rick. And so get on board with it, help support, and, uh, I know I'm going to. I'm excited.

Well, I appreciate that, Ian. Well, ladies and gentlemen, uh, you, you hear what a great guy Ian is. Now go out and buy his music. I'm honored get to play some of it here on the podcast today, but his new album is The Table. You're going to want to pick it up as soon as you can. Ian Zumbach, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Thanks, Rick.

I remember stories from sunny days about a man who raises the dead. Roll, roll the stone away, lift me out from the grave, 'cause only you You have the power to save, Lord. Resurrect me. Resurrect me. I couldn't tell you how I got here. I only knew it was a steady decline. I tell me I'm a victim of murder, but I know it's really suicide. I recall the words of the preacher, That said Jesus can give you new life. Roll, roll, roll the stone away. Lift me out from the grave. 'Cause only you have the power to save. Lord, resurrect me. Awaken in me faith to believe that you can bring life to the dead. I am in need of your victory.

Lord, resurrect me.

Resurrect me. Awaken in me faith to believe that you can bring life to the dead. I am in need of your victory. Oh Lord, resurrect me. Roll, roll, roll the stone away. Lift me out from the grave, 'cause only you have the power to save. Lord, resurrect me. Lord, Resurrect me.

Thank you for joining me here this week on the Voices in My Head podcast. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, follow me on Twitter @RickLeeJames, like my artist page on Facebook at facebook.com/rickleejames, and keep up to date on what I'm writing at my author page on Amazon.com. Make sure to follow my calendar on the website, and if you would like to have me come to your town to do a concert, a speaking engagement, or a book event, you can book me through my website by clicking on the link for Pare Booking Agency. That's P-A-R-E Booking. And finally, it would mean the world to me if you were to leave me a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we we receive, the more visible this podcast is on the internet. And now the benediction: May the God of peace, who raised Christ from the dead, strengthen your inner being for every good work. And may the blessing of God Almighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rest upon you and dwell within you this day and forevermore.

Amen.