Voices In My Head Episode #254: ANDREW PETERSON RELEASES RESURRECTION LETTERS, ONE ALBUM, THREE PART

Hey everybody, just before we begin the Voices in My Head podcast today, I want to remind you— now depending on the time when you're listening, uh, we have 2 days left in this Indiegogo fundraiser to make my new album Thunder. And if you go to Indiegogo and just look up Rick Lee James or look up Thunder, you'll be able to find that there. We have right now raised over $3,000, but we need a lot more help because the goal is a little over $10,000. And we can use your help certainly, even if you're listening to this a little late. We're gonna do our best to allow you to put some more money on the album. The good news is if you donate before the 18th, and it has to be before September 18th, just a couple days from now, one of the perks that you can sign up for when you donate or preorder the album is you get 2 songs from the album right away, and that includes the song written by Rich Mullins, Lowell Alexander, and Phil Nash called called Thunder. We like the song so much we actually named the album after it. The rest of the album is original songs by me. There's hymns that are reimagined, and of course that Rich Mullins song that we talked about already. So if you haven't given yet, we could sure use your help. A pre-order is as good as anything else. You can go online and get a lot of perks. I'm even giving away one of my guitars to the highest bidder on Indiegogo. So If you're able to help us out, it would sure be great. That's indiegogo.com. Again, my name is Rick Lee James. You know that if you listen to this show, so just look me up there. We've got until September 18th, so please help us if you can. And as always, thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is your source for discussions on music, literature, movies, pop culture, theology, and more. Now sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of the Voices in My Head podcast. And don't forget to let the voices in your head be heard by following me on Twitter @RickLeeJames and sharing your thoughts about today's show. Today—

Father forgive them! You will be with me in paradise. Forgive them! You'll be with me today. Today— Father forgive them! You will be with me in paradise. Forgive them! You will be with me today.

Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. For you, the listeners of Voices in My Head, the official podcast of Rick Lee James, Audible is offering a free audiobook download with a free 30-day trial to give you the opportunity to check out their service. I personally recommend The Warden and the Wolf King by today's guest, Andrew Peterson, or any of the books from Andrew Peterson's Wingfeather Saga for that matter. Every book in the Wingfeather Saga is available on Audible. Audible.com. To download your free audiobook today, go to audibletrial.com/voicesinmyhead. Again, that's audibletrial.com/voicesinmyhead for your free audiobook. Andrew Peterson is our guest today. He has not one but two new albums: Resurrection Letters Prologue, which released on February 9th, and Resurrection Letters Volume 1, which will release on March 30th. Andrew, welcome back to the Voices in My Head podcast.

Thank you, Rick. Good to talk to you, man.

It's great to talk to you again. I was just thinking this morning, it was a couple of years ago now during the season of Lent that I sat with you on a couch in your place in Tennessee, and we were discussing your much acclaimed album Resurrection Letters Volume 2 and its significance in your career. And little did I know that you would be releasing not just one, Volume 1, but also the prologue, and they are great. So I wonder if, just to catch listeners up a little bit, maybe you could start by giving us maybe a quick recap of Resurrection Letters Volume 2 and why it came first.

Sure. It's such a confusing thing. It seemed like such a good idea at the time, and maybe it will, maybe it will prove to have been a good idea. I don't know. But so about 10 years ago, I was working on an album. And I had just read a book called Surprised by Hope by N.T. Wright. And was, um, and I'd reread The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis and a couple other books that kind of just stirred in me this like renewed, um, excitement and longing for the resurrection, uh, for our resurrection. And kind of like the fact that Christ's resurrection from the dead on Easter Sunday, he was the first one, you know, he's the firstborn from the dead, as scripture says. And so the idea that like there's this outward ripple effect that affects us 2,000 years later. And so all the songs, when I looked at— I didn't do it on purpose, but a lot of times I'll, you know, just look at the songs that I've written and look for the theme that ties them all together. And so with that record, I remember looking at all the songs and realizing that all of them dealt in one way or another with this idea of resurrection, kind of loosely tied together by this theme. And so I thought, I'm going to call it Resurrection Letters, or no, no, there's a guy named Tim Bourne online said something like, Andrew, look looking forward to hearing this, Your Resurrection Letters. And I was like, that sounds like an album title. So, uh, so I— we recorded the album. About halfway through the album, I, I remember thinking, this feels like part 2. Um, I like— I would— I wish that the— that there was an album that came before this one that was specifically about the resurrection of Jesus, and this could be kind of the answer to that album about the, you know, the, the effect of the resurrection on us. And, uh, and so I thought it was so clever, I would title that one Volume 2 and release it first. And, uh, and I told people that, and they were— I was like, it's so weird that it'll be a good, you know, talking point for marketing. And they went with it, bless their hearts. And, uh, and, you know, of course that just meant that for the last 10 years, uh, people have been asking, when is Volume 1 coming out? And it's just like, oh man, I don't know, I don't know, one of these days. And so that's what this is. So the idea is Yeah, I don't know if that sums it up for you, but that's kind of the short version.

That's really good. And I remember when Volume 2 came out, and I think I was reading about it. I think the first time I read about it was maybe in Worship Leader Magazine or something like that. And I remember thinking, "Oh, did I miss an album? There's Volume 2 that came out." But man, it's such a great album. It's become a classic, and some of my favorite songs that you've written are actually on that album. Ever since I announced last week that you'd be coming on the show again, I've had so many comments from people in the social media realm just saying things like, I've been waiting for this for 10 years. I can't wait. I'm so excited. So I feel that there's a great amount of anticipation for this.

Well, that's really exciting and I'm grateful and I'm also a little scared, you know, it's kind of like, uh, it's like that. I don't know, like expectations make me nervous. And, uh, so, but having said that, like, I, I don't know that I've ever been so excited to share a record with people. Like, I feel way more excitement than trepidation. Like, there's this weird thing that happens when you— when I— when I make an album anyway, that where, uh, until the— before it's released, every— the— all of the— it's all potential energy, you know what I mean? And so I kind of have this weird— I, I kind of want to just sit on it and keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible, because then, you know, there's still the possibility that it could, you know, go out into the world and, and really move people. And And so anyway, part of that is fear-based, you know. But this time I just am like, it's like the horse is in the pen and it's kind of just impatiently stamping its hooves on the ground. And so I'm ready to fling open the gates. I can't wait for people to hear it.

Well, I'll tell you, as one of the perks of this job is getting to have some review copies in advance. And I've listened to both volumes, the prologue and volume 1, at least 4, probably 5 times now over the last week. And I love them. I think they're so good. And they're just, They set the right tone for the season that we're in right now with Lent, and we'll talk a little bit more about your prologue, but I love the Tenebrae song, the last words. It just all feels so right for right now, so I don't think you have anything to be fearful about when it comes out. I really think it's going to be well received by everybody. Well, thank you. I wanted to ask you, because I can't remember if it's been one or two albums in between the times that you've actually worked with Ben Shive as your producer, but you're back with him again this time. Yeah, I did. I was just kind of wondering about, you know, did it kind of feel like getting back on the same old bike again? And, and I just wondered about your experience going back with Ben again, because I know it's not like you guys have stopped being together or working together, playing together at all.

I lost you for a second. Are you still there?

I'm still there. Can you hear me? Hello?

Yep, there you are. You came back.

All right, sorry about that.

Sorry, man.

No, that's okay. No, I was just curious about, uh, was it— I mean, did it, did it feel right again? I mean, being back in the studio with Ben as in the producer role and just, you know, how is that compared to some of your past experiences? Sure.

Uh, so Ben, I, I need to total it up one of these days, but I feel like he's produced 6 or 7 of my albums and, um just one of my dearest friends. And Gabe Scott, another of my just dear old friends, made The Burning Edge of Dawn, which is the last one. And that felt like— it was— that was really scary, like going from, you know, having worked with Ben and Andy Gjellhorn all those years. Ben usually was at the helm of a record, and then Andy was a huge part of it, you know. Because we would, we toured together and, um, they'd help me kind of, uh, hash out the songs and kind of bolster them up a little bit. And, uh, anyway, but, but at the time it was like Ben and Andy had both, uh, felt the need to, to stay home more and not travel so much. And so, and at the— and then Ben's production career got super busy. I mean, the dude is just one of the most in-demand producers in Nashville, I think. Yeah. And so he wasn't available for The Burning Edge of Dawn, and it just kind of felt like I was just in a place where I was like, I wonder what would happen. I need to be brave and step out and try to hire somebody else. And so, so I did like the wimpiest brave thing you can do, and that is hire another old friend that you feel very comfortable with. So, uh, so it wasn't all that courageous, but, but Gabe produced Burning Edge of Dawn, and that was a total blast. Like, uh, I just, I love Gabe so much, and we've been making music together for, I think we figured out, 25 years.

Wow.

Um, that he and I have been playing together off and on, which is a rare thing in this business. So, uh, so anyway, so I had in the back of my mind that if I, if I do ever record Volume 1, um, I really want Ben to do it because he was there for Volume 2 and I just, I don't know, I think he just really understands, understood the concept. He understood what I wanted to do. And part of that too is that Ben is an elder at his church. And like, you know, as long as I've known him, he knows the Bible probably as well as any person I've ever met. And, and just was, I don't know, like I felt really good about entrusting him with this. Really foreboding task of trying to write a group of songs, produce a group of songs about what is, you know, in some ways the central, the most important part of Christianity. Like, obviously the cross is necessary, but like, if the resurrection didn't happen, we wouldn't be here right now, you know, the church wouldn't exist. And so the very fact that the resurrection happened, to me, it has such importance that I was like, I don't, I don't want to trust this process with just anybody. And so I was so thankful that Ben had room in his calendar and we were able to, to do it together.

Yeah, well, it's, it sounds really, I mean, it just sounds like you guys were born to work together. Every album that you do, it really does. I just, feel like you have that sort of relationship that comes out in the music. I'm assuming, and I think I'm right, that Ben probably arranged the strings arrangements on the album as well, and they're beautiful. I mean, there's a reflective piece that's just musical on the prologue that it really fits just very well. So what a creative guy in his own right, and I just I always appreciate when both of you guys get together. That leads me into my question about your Tenebrae song, Last Words, because it feels like it was probably a collaborative effort to kind of come up with this arrangement, because it is a song that's in a round. And I've been telling some of my pastor friends and some of my music pastor friends, like, this is a really very cool arrangement of the Seven Last Words and something that I haven't heard in exactly this way before. I've definitely been in services of Tenebrae services where we've gone through those last phrases of Christ, but never would I have thought of making them into a round like you did. And it really sets a tone for the album. And I've suggested to some of my other friends who, like me, do music in their churches, like, this could be something— it feels like you could actually maybe do with a few of your people in the congregation, just, you know, at your Tenebrae service this year. And it feels just very— maybe almost in an a cappella type So I'm just wondering how the process of kind of writing that and recording that came about, because you don't hear rounds very often on records anymore, but it's really neat the way you did that.

Well, thanks. And that one was a— for years and years, I have, you know, I've been wrestling with how to approach the telling the story, like how explicit does it need to be? Is it, you know, is this— is— does it start with Christ waking up in the tomb, or does it start with the death of Jesus? You know, there were all these questions kind of swirling around, but I knew that I wanted there to be a song called Tenebrae, um, which would, which would do this thing. And, um, and so I, you know, told Ben about this idea, and the idea was to have the candles be lit one at a time and then the candles be blown out one at a time. So it started with the first of the seven last words and ends with the last of the seven last words, just to um, like if you could look at the lyrics stacked up, it would look like a little hill, you know. It would start with one and then go back down and end with nothing. And I— part of that is that, um, you know, I didn't grow up in a super liturgical church or anything, so the idea of a Tenebrae service was new to me, um, maybe 5 years ago, maybe a little longer ago. I think it was, um, Midtown Fellowship here in Nashville that did one, and, uh, and I was just overcome by it. It was— Monday Thursday is the same way in the Anglican Church that I go to now, where it's like the idea that you, you just kind of have to sit in the darkness and the pain of the cross. Yeah. From Friday to Saturday night is such a profound— like, I don't know, it embodies— it's very worshipful, but it's also so painful. And it makes Easter morning feel like the biggest party. And so somehow I wanted to open the record with the gravity of the cross. And so that was the idea. I would, I would be so curious to see how, how it would go for somebody to try to perform it because it would take 7 people. Yeah. At least, you know, because, you know, we doubled some of the voices on there. As far as the writing of the song, I remember telling Ben the idea. Sitting at the piano and kind of going, here's what I'm thinking. And I played a chord or two and sang that first, um, father forgive them for they know not what they do. And, uh, and Ben kind of then found the looping chord structure. And it took about 20 minutes to write the thing. Like, it, it— like, we just laid down the first one and we're like, okay, that's cool, and looped it in Pro Tools so that it kept going. And then we looked at the next lyric or the next verse and said, okay, how do we sing this in a way that doesn't get in the way of the last one? And we just stacked it up and we're done. It was kind of this crazy, quick, quick thing where, and my son Asher was in the room too, and he was kind of working on programming the drums while we were doing it. So it just felt very much like, oh yeah, that was easier than I thought it would be.

That's really cool. I, you know, and I think about too, when we're talking about this Prologue album, especially. It hits us right now, at our time of recording, you know, that we've had yet again another national tragedy, you know, this terrible shooting in Florida. And, and, you know, I never know what to say. And, and sometimes in those moments, I think all we have is the death of Christ and the hope of the resurrection to just hold out. And it's something so poignant about Lent, and not that I think that the shooter had anything in mind, but we're beginning this season on Ash Wednesday and this terrible tragedy happens. And I feel like as believers, what we have to offer the world is just this hope that grieves but is in anticipation of this resurrection that's coming somehow and in some way. And I've found that as I've been listening through the prologue, It's been hitting me at a, at a very appropriate time to just be able to kind of deal with those things. Again, this morning I'm listening to a reporter who was at a memorial service yesterday on the radio, and this wasn't a person that was connected with the family, and they weren't a person that was close to them by any means, but this reporter, as he's just naming names and telling about these high school students and teachers that died, he's just on a live broadcast, he's just breaking down into tears and crying.

Yeah.

And it's a very profound moment, and I'm grateful for this album just for the way that I think it can help us maybe put some words into some of the things that we're grieving about right now.

Well, I sure hope so. Yeah, it's one of the things that I love that happens in a couple of the Tenebrae services that I've been to. They use clips from movies sometimes and like readings from— it's not all just scripture. Like, it's more a time to like, take a second and look at just how terribly broken the world really is. Yeah. And, and man, it's just heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to think about. Like, if you, if you take the news, like if you imagine taking the clip that I saw last night of the kids running out of the high school.

Yeah.

And you broadcast that in church and you read My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Psalm 22. It would take on a whole different meaning. It would move— it moves the tragedy of the world into the context of, of the story that God is telling. And, uh, you know, it makes room for us to, to cry out to God and ask why this is happening. And, uh, and I think that's okay. Like, one of my favorite, uh, moments and, uh, little lessons that I learned from Michael Card was— he said, uh, he was talking about lament, and he said at no point in scripture does God ever say, 'How dare you speak to me that way?' Like, um, he always welcomes the conversation, no matter what it is that you're feeling, uh, anger at him, confusion, frustration, whatever it may be. He kind of welcomes that conversation. So this is a season where I think it's important to recover that a little bit and go, uh, um, we're kind of walking on this road toward the cross for 40 days, and, uh, and it's a good time to be confronted with just how deep the wound goes, you know?

Yeah, for sure. Well, I was going to ask you about your trip to Israel, and maybe I will in a minute, but I, I feel like the conversation is taking us to a place, a different song that's on your Prologue called Always Good, which you have described as a lament, and it It doesn't necessarily sound like a lament at first, but do you mind sharing a little bit of the story behind that of your friend? And sure, there was a profound tragedy behind that song. And again, I think hearing the story might help us in some way to find ways to properly grieve and hope at the same time.

Yeah, well, it's tricky because I'm— it was such— it's such an intimate thing that happened. And I'm, I'm still wrestling with how to talk about it publicly. But I'll just say the quick version is that my friend's wife died just a few hours after she gave birth to their daughter. And so this guy, the best day and the worst day of this, my friend's life happened, you know?

Yeah.

And, you know, it's the kind of thing that I think 200 years ago, It was no less tragic, but it happened more often. But these days, it's pretty rare to hear of this, this thing. And, and it was just devastating to our whole community here. He's a musician and had toured with me some and really close to my boys. And anyway, the, the, we were all just grieving and his wife's death and the complicated kind of feeling of the joy of his daughter's birth and all that kind of stuff. And anyway, my son told me that one of the things that he heard my friend say when he saw his wife for the last time, yeah, was in tears. He said, always good, always good. God is always good.

Wow.

And, and it was the kind of thing that, like, felt like it was supernatural to me. Like, I can't imagine. That being the cry of my heart. Yeah, in that moment, you know what I mean? And so it almost felt like the kind of thing that like the Holy Spirit maybe took over and declared this truth in the face of such tragedy in order to give this guy a story or something to hold on to. So in that sense, it is a lament, like it was the cry of his heart at the most painful moment of his whole life. And And so, yeah, I don't ever want it to feel trite.

Right.

You know, it's not an easy thing to say. And I wouldn't want people to like say in the face of tragedy, oh, don't worry, God is always good. It's like that doesn't feel right. But the fact that it came from the mouth of the guy who was suffering most struck me as very profound.

So yeah, definitely. Well, thank you for sharing that. And I know that's— I know that must be such a hard thing to talk about. And I don't mean to Well, it's not hard for me.

No, no, no. It's mainly just, I don't want to betray his memory. You know what I'm saying?

Right.

I want to be careful with it because it was such a tender thing for him. Certainly. But anyways, I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful. Like the song, I wrote the song the day before his wife's funeral and his family very kindly asked me to sing it at the funeral. So it was a— Yeah, I couldn't wait to text him the song whenever we finished recording it.

Yeah, wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. Sure. That really is a powerful story, and I think it just gives so much more meaning even to an already great song. Would you mind telling us in the moments we have left a little bit about your trip to Israel and how it affected the writing of these new albums?

Oh yeah, man, well, I was so pumped to get invited on this trip. It was like, it was a pretty kind of a last-minute thing. Like, um, I had a friend that was on the trip and they had an extra seat, and he was like, hey, is it cool if we call my buddy Andrew? He's working on a record right now about the resurrection. And so they said yes, and, uh, I just kind of last minute hopped on the plane. It was actually, we were supposed to be in the studio making the record during the 10 days that I was gonna go to Israel, so we had to pause the album. But I felt like it was crucial, you know. I was just like, yeah, if I have a chance to go there and walk around where this actually happened, surely it'll inform some, some part of the music. And so, uh, it sure did. Like, there are 3 or 4 songs on the album that, that wouldn't be, uh, wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for that trip. So it was truly amazing. But like, the, the, the 2 songs that come to mind that were like really directly informed by it, um, 'Our God Rested,' which is the last one on Prologue. And that was partly because it was a— we got to Jerusalem on Friday afternoon, just before the sunset, which marks the beginning of Sabbath, but it wasn't a normal Sabbath. It was actually Rosh Hashanah, which is the Jewish New Year. So it was a little bit, you know, more significant of a Sabbath. And so we got there, and as the sun sets, you just hear them, the song, the singing, the songing, the singing gets louder and the chanting gets louder. And we, and I moved forward through, you know, this crowd of Jewish people and put my hands on the wall and was just so overcome by this longing for the new creation. Like in that moment, like hearing all of the singing and the weeping. And, you know, there's so much resonance between what it is that a Christian is longing for and what it is that the Jews are longing for. Like, it's different. But there's a whole lot of overlap. I'm longing to see Christ the King face to face, you know. I'm longing for the day when, you know, the New Jerusalem descends and God makes his place among us again, and the restoration of the temple, so to speak, which is really just the restoration of Eden. It's like the new Eden. And so, but to be there among these people who are singing the same songs, the same prophecies in Isaiah. This, it was just so, so overwhelming to me. And the way, what I felt like, I told somebody after, was like I felt like I was Lucy on the inside of the wardrobe, like with her, her hands on the back of the wardrobe wishing she could get back into Narnia again. Sure. And, and that's how I was standing with my hands on the wall thinking like, it's not like, yeah, there's a sense in which the kingdom is already here and there's a sense in which it's coming., and I just wanted to see it so badly. And so, uh, anyway, that was amazing. So there's a song on the record called Maybe Next Year, and, uh, uh, and I kind of just like jumped for songs. But God Rested was inspired by the, the experiencing the Sabbath and kind of the connection of, you know, the idea that God is on the outside of time, uh, or I could say he moves in and out of time if he wants to because it's time is something that he would have come up with means that when he, you know, the creation account that we have in Genesis, the fact that at the end of the sixth day, God said it was very good. And then on the seventh day, he rested, and then he, you know, instituted Sabbath rest for his people. He did all that knowing exactly what was going to happen. You know, he knew that all of those things there, it's not a stretch to say that those things are prefiguring of what, what was going to happen, uh, with Christ's body interred in the tomb on Saturday. And so, you know, the overlay of Old and New Testament, uh, is such— is part of the beautiful multifaceted work of art that God is making of the world, you know. And, uh, and so God Rested was kind of my attempt to capture that beautiful sense in which, um, creation itself, all the whole story you know, was foreshadowing the moment when God himself would lay resting in the tomb. So anyway, so the trip was just profoundly moving. It was— it was not to keep talking Narnia, but it was like I told somebody that as a pastor's kid growing up in the church and going to Sunday school and VBS and everything, it was like getting to— going to Israel was like getting on a plane and going to Narnia. It was like walking around inside of a story that you grew up reading. And I just— it was overwhelming. Like, I cried so many times on that trip.

Well, that means a lot. My son is 5 years old now, and I have just now started reading Narnia to him. So that's good to hear. Good to hear about that. Well, the prologue album ends, and the words literally are, "The sun went down, the Sabbath faded, the holy day was done, and all creation waited." And I want to encourage people as they listen through the albums Do yourselves a favor and listen on Holy Week and give yourself that time to grieve over the weekend because the album that follows is powerful. The Volume 1, and I do not want to go too much into Volume 1 today, just a little bit because I do not want to give too much away before it releases, but I have to tell you when "His Heart Beats" starts up and after you have heard the one album, I cannot get that particular song out of my head. It is just this glorious proclamation of the resurrection.. I think we may even try to use it on Easter Sunday this year at our church because it's really good. So I don't want to give too much of the album away too soon for people that may not have heard it, but let me ask you, what is your dream for Resurrection Letters Volume 1 if you could say, "I want this to happen when people hear this album"?

Well, what I want to happen is the same thing that has been happening in my own heart, which is that I just, I love Jesus more. Like, I'm more amazed by what it is that he did. And the second verse, I think, in His Heart Beats, which is the first song on the new record, where it says, "He's resting as he rises to reclaim the bride he won," is a line that Ben wrote. And I just, I love that verse because it's like, that's what he did. Like, he paid this, he walked this incredible this road that no, no human could, could walk. He endured what none of us could endure, um, in order to make us his own, in order to like make every sad thing come untrue, in the words of Tolkien. And so like that sense of celebration and victory and triumph, it's kind of like when you're watching the Olympics and you see somebody nail something and they just go, yes! And you see the slow-mo picture of them kind of like fist pumping, and I always feel like I want to cry. I mean, that's what I, I kind of like That's the sense of triumph that I want people to feel about what our Lord has done when they hear this record. So the idea is Easter morning, wake up and push play and turn it up as loud as you can and just celebrate the fact that it's finished, you know. And part of that came from, again, N.T. Wright, this book Surprised by Hope. If you guys listening haven't read that book yet, you must read it. It was for for a kid like me, like pastor's kid growing up in the American South, like, I didn't— I couldn't have ever explained to you, like, I get— I got the fact that Jesus died. Yes, I got the fact that his crucifixion was the atonement for our sin, uh, and that he rose again and that he was going to come back. I got all that. But like, why he did it, you know, like, the end game is a new Eden. The end game is not some like far away float on a cloud kind of heaven. It's— no, it's like something far more exciting and surprising than that, and it's the earth made new. And so that idea, um, that's what we're celebrating at Easter. And you know, depending on what church tradition you come from, Easter doesn't end on Easter Sunday. Easter begins on Easter Sunday. And I forget how many days Easter goes on the church calendar.

It's 7 weeks.

Yeah, okay, so 7 weeks of Easter. Like, that's like 7 weeks of celebration and partying. And anyway, I remember, uh, N.T. Wright in that book talking about how he was like, I wish that the church threw such a massive party that it dwarfed Christmas, you know?

Right.

That like, like Christmas obviously is crucial, but like, but Easter is the other half of the story, you know what I mean? So the idea that he suggested, like, why don't we have a feast that lasts? Why don't we take off work? Why don't we all make such a big deal out of the resurrection of Jesus that the world can't help but wonder, what are you guys carrying on about?

Yeah.

And it's like amazing, the idea that there was a bodily resurrection is, is so crucial. I know I already said that, but it's, it changes the whole game. You know, it explains to me why the apostles and the disciples were willing to die for this thing. It explains the propagation of the early church. It's like this, none of this would make sense if Jesus hadn't shown up in the room, you know, that Sunday and said, touch the scars, like, this is what's in store for us. And so, so this record, my dream is that this record is part of that 7-week party.

Yeah, that's great. That's a really— I think that's a wonderful dream. God, let it happen for sure.

Yeah.

Well, I really— I have one more question for you before we're done today, but I also have a comment that I wanted to say to you on a personal level too. This has sort of been a rabbit room last few weeks here. I've had Andrew Osenga on the show. I've had Jeremy Casella. I've had different ones of us that are funding albums right now. We've been like talking through stuff, but it's been fun. And but I mentioned Andrew, not only Osenga, not only because he has an incredible new album coming out, but you and Andrew wrote a song together years ago. And I always forget to say to both of you guys when I talk to you what a profound impact this song had on my life, but it was After the Last Tear Falls. And I had not heard the song before, and it's been, you know, around a decade for me now, and I went through just just hell on earth. I went through a terrible divorce, and I was still, you know, working at my church, and it just all, you know, life just kind of fell apart for me. And I have a very dear friend that had me over to his house, and he just played that song for me. And, and that song, in many ways, it carried me through on my darkest days. I would just find myself in places wherever I could, just by myself alone, and just needing a boost. And I needed to be reminded that that in the end these tears were not going to be all there was. And there's such a— since that time, God has done so many amazing things in my life, everything from an amazing wife and my son and working as a writer for Lifeway Worship and just different things that have happened in amazing ways. But I've never gotten to say to both of you guys just in person, I don't think, I just wanted to thank you. First of all, because I can't tell you, um, what— how that has ministered to me over the years. And, um, and I, I still to this day, when I know someone that's going through an incredible, um, crisis in their life, I often will refer them to that song. And so I just wanted to say thank you. And yeah, thank you.

I'm so, so thankful to hear that. That's the whole reason, uh, I got into this game is I just— I've been so comforted by other songs that like Hearing that is super satisfying. So I'm really thankful the Lord has blessed you through it.

Well, well, thank you. I'm glad I finally got a chance to say that.

But I should also say that like all the best parts of that song were written by Andrew Osenga.

Amazing, amazing writer. And you guys are all just such kind people too. And I always appreciate all of you when I get a chance to chat with you. And well, let's— how about we end with one question? I'm definitely going to point everybody to the, the two new albums, and I'm gonna play a track from it as we close the show today. But I have a question relating to a lot of the different hats that you wear as a creative person, because many people, but maybe not everybody, knows that you're also an author, and now you also have a show that is on Amazon on Instant Video through the books that you've authored, through the Wingfeather Saga. So You know, you're a very literary songwriter in that there are these amazing stories that you tell, but you're also a very lyrical author, and sometimes it's almost like songs jump off the page when you're reading your stories. And now that you have the cartoon made of the Wingfeather Saga, so I guess in some ways I guess that makes you a TV runner or a show producer or something. So sort of, yeah, of all these different hats that you're wearing, whether let's let's just call you the TV producer, the songwriter, the singer, the author. Is there one of those hats that gives you the most life as a creative person, or do you just kind of find them all to be part of the same pie?

Oh, wow, that's a good question. I think that they're all, you know, spokes on a wheel, and it all feels like it's scratching the same itch, you know. And I happen to to believe— like, the same thing that excites me about the Wingfeather books is the same thing that excites me about the potential of turning it into a movie, which is what we're working on. And it is just this idea that God smuggles light into people's hearts through the arts. And, you know, I say that as a person who You know, they're much better songwriters than me, much better authors than me, much better, you know, I don't know if I would call myself a TV producer, but I mean, I did, I executive produced this, this, this animated short. And so, but I don't know, who is it that said, like, taste is the enemy of great art? I've heard that before. And I think there is some truth to that. But on the other hand, it's like, that doesn't let us off the hook to try to make something really beautiful, you know? Like, I don't think I'll ever write a song as good as Rich Mullins' "The Color Green." But every time I sit down to write a song, I think, "Lord, help me come close to those mountains," you know? If I could just get close to that thing. And the whole reason behind that is that I have been so affected by certain kinds of books, certain kinds of movies, certain kinds of songs that like, I just— thrills me to think that God would allow a knucklehead like me to, you know, to be a part of his kingdom in that way.

Yeah.

And I remember 25 years ago, well, whatever, whenever it was, asking him for that, you know. And so I think all of that stuff, like, I know I'd be lying if I didn't say that, or I'd be lying if I said that, like, sin and ambition wasn't a part of some of that stuff. Like, uh, there have been a few moments where I felt this really cut-to-the-quick kind of realization that like, oh, you said yes to doing this thing because you wanted to look cool, or you said yes to this because, uh, I don't know, maybe you thought it would make money or whatever. Um, and so kind of having been convicted on and off over the years of that thing, like, what I, what I would love to operate out of was just truly trust and, uh, that like saying yes to things because it's born of the Spirit and not my own sinful flesh, but, but that God is calling me to these things. And so, so in one sense or another, everything from the film to the books to the records, like God is either calling me specifically to do this thing or he's redeeming my sinful desire to have done it in the first place and has made good out My bad. And, uh, and so all that to say that it, to me, it all, it's all the same pot, you know what I mean? Like, sure, when I wake up in the morning and I come out here to the chapter house to work, um, I don't— there, I kind of change hats, but it just like, it all kind of just is what, like, whatever is most urgent, I just sit down and I do it. And sure, and God has been so gracious to me to allow me to kind of like, uh, geek out over some of the different kinds of things that I like. So that's a good question, and I'm sorry that that's such a rambly answer.

No, that's, that's fine. It was a good answer. Well, for everybody listening, the Resurrection Letters Prologue is out right now. And well, I guess this is a podcast, so you could be listening to this 5 years from now, so maybe they're both out by the time you hear. But the Prologue is out right now, and in March, the Volume 1 of Resurrection Letters comes out. So I want to encourage all of you to go out and pick that up. They are, they're really wonderful songs, and they're very They're perfect for the season of Lent and as we move into Easter. And that would be my recommendation to everyone listening this year: follow Andrew's advice, and on Easter Sunday morning, crank your speakers to 11 and let it play, Resurrection Volume 1. So Andrew Peterson, thank you so much for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Thank you, Rick.

Have you ever thought to yourself, man, I'd like to host my own podcast? Well, guess what? You can go to podbean.com podbean.com/voices and get everything you need to create, manage, and promote your podcast. I use Podbean every week for Voices in My Head. There's easy uploading and publishing tools, stunning templates, custom domains, social and promotional tools, an embeddable podcast player, monetization tools, and more. It is your all-in-one podcasting solution. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile-ready right from the start. So go to podbean.com/voices. And when you sign up, use the code "voices" and you'll get a sizable discount. Podbean, for your home podcasting. Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Thank you for joining me here this week on the Voices in My Head podcast. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, follow me on Twitter @RickLeeJames, like my artist page on Facebook at facebook.com/rickleejames, and keep up to date on what I'm writing at my author page on Amazon.com. Make sure to follow my calendar on the website, and if you would like to have me come to your town to do a concert, a speaking engagement, or a book event, you can book me through my website by clicking on the link for Pare Booking Agency. That's P-A-R-E Booking. And finally, it would mean the world to me if you were to leave me a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast is on the internet. And now the benediction: May the God of peace, who raised Christ from the dead, strengthen your inner being for every good work. And may the blessing of God Almighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rest upon you and dwell within you this day and forevermore.

Amen.