Voices In My Head Podcast #256: An Islam Conversation with Samina and Sana Ahmed

Have you ever thought to yourself, man, I'd like to host my own podcast? Well, guess what? You can go to podbean.com/voices and get everything you need to create, manage, and promote your podcast. I use Podbean every week for Voices in My Head. There's easy uploading and publishing tools, stunning templates, custom domains, social and promotional tools, an embeddable podcast player, monetization tools, and more. It is your all-in-one podcasting solution. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile ready right from the start. So go to podbean.com/voices, and when you sign up, use the code "voices" and you'll get a sizable discount. Podbean, for your home podcasting. Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer-songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is your source for discussions on music, literature, movies, pop culture, theology, and more. Now sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of the Voices in My Head podcast. And don't forget to let the voices in your head be heard by following me on Twitter @RickLeeJames and sharing your thoughts about today's show. Welcome back to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of Rick Lee James. As always, I am your host Rick, and I'm glad that you are here with us this week. This is going to be a really great conversation that we're having today. I have two guests with me here from the Springfield, Ohio community. I have Sameena and Sana Ahmed, and they are a mother and daughter— I guess I'll say duo, both of you— and they are part of our Muslim community here in Springfield, Ohio. And they were so kind to be able to come out and just sit with me for a little while and let me ask questions today. And they're gonna be just kind of sharing from their heart and helping us learn more, because I know that there is a lot in our world of false information going around. I know that's a shocker to all all of our listeners that there would be anything in the media or anywhere else that is disinformation whatsoever. But I'm just so glad to have both of you here today. So thank you for being the guests on the Voices in My Head podcast today.

Thank you for having us. We appreciate you giving us this chance.

Oh my goodness, I, I am so honored to have you here. And I want to tell the guests, you won't be able to see this obviously because this is audio, but I want to make mention at the beginning and also at the end. I'll remind me and I'll make mention again, but they came in and they gave me a copy of the Quran today for me to have. For my own because I did not have my own copy and I want to learn as much as I can. And they wanted to let you, the listeners, know that you can also get a free copy from them. This is actually from the generosity of their heart, okay? So this is the kind of people that we have on our show today. And if you would like to get yourself a free copy of the Quran, you can send an email to Sana, and her email is sana@sana@islam.org. Sana.amed2010@gmail.com. And I will make sure and say that again at the end of our podcast as well today.

That is the English translation, and we'll be happy to mail it for free.

That is fantastic.

If they send their addresses along in the email.

All right, that's great. Yeah, make sure you send your contact information, otherwise it'll be hard to get that to you. Well, so the listener will know, I just sent a list of questions to both of these wonderful ladies and asked them multiple things, sort of scattershot, just lots of different questions I know that people have. And we're not going to get through them all today, but it gave us kind of a starting point to be able to start. So I'm just really appreciative to have you both here. And I'm going to start right off, which is going to seem so basic, but I'm always curious about names. And I think both Both of you have lovely names. Thank you. And I was wondering, is there a particular meaning behind your names?

We definitely try to keep names with good meanings. So, for example, my name Samina means precious in Arabic. And I'll let Sana answer for her name.

So my name in Arabic would actually be pronounced Thana, but when you take— when Indian culture, Pakistani culture, they pronounce the tha as a sa, so it became Sana and then just Sana. So that just means praised.

Wow. And I love that. I wish that we did that more in American culture as to where we actually attribute meanings to names. And I've tried to do that with my own son, but I think it empowers us in some ways and sort of begins our life with purpose when we're able to give those names that way. So that's it.

So we named her Sana because for the praise, the meaning of it.

Well, I'm gonna go straight into just asking some questions from the stage here.

Sure, that's what we're here for.

And as always, I always tell my guests, if there's anywhere that we haven't gone yet and you feel like we need to go, always feel free to interject. We are so laid back on this show, it's ridiculous. So feel free. We're not uptight about things at all. So I'm just gonna start with, and I know this is such a broad question, but what are the major beliefs of Muslims?

Well, the first, the main belief is just to believe that there's one God and that Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, is the last messenger. That is the main belief, um, believing that there's one God, he has no, um, partners, no children, and that all, and to believe in all the prophets like Abraham, Moses, Noah, and believe Jesus as a prophet, and that Muhammad was the final messenger. That is the main belief in Islam. Okay.

And for us to be Muslim, we have to believe in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a messenger of God. For to be a Muslim, you have to believe in the Prophet Jesus also.

Wow. And I don't think a lot of people understand that. That's one thing that I think they find is very surprising. One thing that I find really interesting when you talk, and it's something that we, especially evangelical Christians, are very lax about when we talk about God, Um, like when you just spoke the word of the Prophet, you had sort of a blessing after his name. When you spoke of Jesus, there was a blessing after his name. Is that something that you're taught from early on, just as a way of respect to speak about?

Yes, we are always taught to praise God or to send peace and blessings to all the prophets. So that is something that we do teach. I'm a Sunday school teacher as well, so it's something I teach my students to make sure they do out of respect. Wow.

And that too also because they were a great people and they were respected people from God. They were sent by God, they're prophets, so they deserve respect.

Sure.

So we can't take any of the prophets' names in vain. Yeah. It has to be always with peace be upon them all.

I think that's actually very important. It's an important lesson that we can learn because in our society, I mean, you can hardly watch anything on a television show or read anything and someone's always taking the Lord's name one way or another in vain. And so it's beautiful. And I think that's something very countercultural that actually all of our faiths— I have a good friend, he's actually the rabbi at the temple down here. And when he writes the name of God out, he won't write it fully. He'll write G-D because of his respect for the name of God. And I always find it interesting how often we forget that we're supposed to be reverencing the holy names and things like that. Of that nature.

Yeah, if you read any text about the prophets or God, you'll see maybe initials, like you'll see a PBUH to say peace be upon him, or you'll have it in Arabic to remember to say that in Arabic, things like that.

So we're trying not to just say the name without saying peace be upon them all.

He says in parentheses around the name.

I just want to add one more thing, was that we have our mosque, Miami Valley Islamic Association, And you guys, anybody's always welcome to come and join us there. It's always open if they want to learn more.

That's great. So especially if they're in the Springfield, Dayton area, they would want to know that. They're more than welcome to come.

We have two mosques here in Springfield actually, and both of them are very willing to allow visitors. And if you're in the Columbus area, the mosques there are very open as well as in Dayton because we visit those mosques every now and then. So Most mosques will usually be very welcoming for anyone who wants to visit.

Well, that leads right into my next question, actually, which is very good. It's almost like you knew the segue or something. I wanted to ask, what does your faith say about welcoming the stranger and attending to the needs of others?

Okay, we are very, very welcoming, and we would like people to come and ask us questions because we are open to, like, educating rather than people having misconceptions and getting used the wrong way, to ask directly through us or to us because we don't get offended. Because our— my theory is unless you ask, you don't learn. So we're very open, and we are very open to anybody who wants to come in and learn and very helpful regardless of what faith they are. Our faith teaches us to be kind and compassionate and loving and caring to others.

And we're taught to respect other people and their religions and faiths as well as we would want to be respected as well. So we were taught to just, as my mother just said, being respectful and kind and showing that and welcoming. And at least for us personally, we're also very willing to answer questions in this day and age because we'd rather people ask than assume.

And again, we're not scholars, but we're trying to clear misconceptions through our faith, through what we have learned.

So we may not know all the answers. But we can find someone.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think any of us know all the answers to anything. So I appreciate your humility. And I remember, I think the first time that I, that I heard you both speak, I think it was right after the Charlottesville rally and the tragedy that happened there. And there was an event downtown where basically we just met in solidarity and we had candles and people from all walks of life came together. And both of you were speaking. I think you were the main speaker, but I remember both of you being there and speaking with you that night. And I really felt that sense of the openness to the conversation and answering questions, and it's one of the only ways I think we can do it right now.

And that's one of the beauties of living in a small town like this because, you know, you are surrounded by people who aren't of your faith or your culture or may don't look the same as you, so we automatically, you know, have to get to know other people and we make friends with whomever. And so it's easy to connect.

Yeah, we had some people from Clark State come and I gave a talk to them and they were very interested. Their impression of Islam was that there's no forgiveness. And so I told them it's very much encouraged in Islam to forgive. God likes it if you forgive people because it shows mercy in you, and then God is forgiving towards you. So that's one misconception that they had, which they were happy to know.

And this is off paper a little bit, so if you need a minute to think about it, you can. But I know in Christianity there are things that kind of drive me crazy at times, where I'll hear somebody say, "Oh, those Christians are blah blah blah," which is For one thing, it's a sweeping generalization about, you know, there's so many different types of Christians and denominations and things like that. I'm just curious, is there anything that comes to mind that you think of that kind of just drives you crazy when you'll hear somebody make a generalization, just go, "Well, those Muslims are blah, blah, blah," you know?

Yeah, that's a good question. I always say—

All the time.

All the time. All the time. Once something goes on, I always say, "Please don't judge the religion by the people, by its followers." because some of them are not good. Not everyone is a good practicing Muslim, just like not everyone is a good practicing Christian. Judge the religion by learning it, not by following people who are following it, because not everyone follows it to the T. You know, this is just like saying, you know, the religion is perfect, the followers are not. So I say please don't judge the religion by people who are following it. This is one example I heard somebody said, you know, if you give You give somebody who doesn't know how to drive a car to drive, they won't be able to drive that car because they don't know how to drive it. But it doesn't mean the car is bad. It's the person who doesn't know how to drive. So the religion is perfect. The people don't follow it properly.

It happens a lot with things going on in the world, things in the media where things are misrepresented. And unfortunately, I'm used to that growing up. As growing up, you know, being only— my memory goes back to since 9/11 because I was only in 4th grade. 5th grade. So being used to hearing generalizations and making sure I'm always out there trying to help clear those misconceptions and learning just not to believe everything you hear and knowing that not everyone's gonna know because some— not everyone has met someone who is Muslim. And sometimes you, you understand why they think that way because they've never been taught otherwise, or maybe they just haven't done the research. —And so—

That's why I encourage everyone to please get to know one Muslim person or Muslim friend, and hopefully they'll be a good role model. But that's the only way to really judge and find out, you know, what the religion actually teaches, because, you know, no religion teaches you to do bad things. It's the people who go astray and do things to their own liking. But it has nothing to do with what the faith teaches. A lot of it is cultural too.

Sure. And I can imagine, like I was trying to think the other day, I I can't think that I've ever been in that situation where practically every day I'm hearing somebody say something against my faith. And I do hear it all the time. I mean, you just can't really watch the news or pick up a newspaper or anything. And different bans from people from certain parts of the world. And I mean, let's tell the truth, it's a ban against a religion. I mean, it really is. If you feel like that, imagine how we feel. I know, I know. That's what I say. It's so hard for me even to imagine, and my heart goes out to you. In those times, and which is one reason that I feel it's so important that we have conversations like this so that we can talk through.

But I will tell you that people who are willing to have those conversations, it means the world to us. And like, that's what makes everything feel like, oh, it's going to be okay, it's going to be better because of all these people willing to take the time to have conversations with us and listen.

Well, yeah, because we're out there, we want to help, we want people to learn, and This means a lot that you, you know, people are willing to hear our voices and see. So we appreciate that.

Sure, well, I'm glad to give a chance to do some of that. And I think when we can get things right down to the local. So often we want to generalize things and make things very broad. And so we'll allow the government or whoever to make one huge statement about something. But it doesn't always actually affect our life in the day-to-day with like our neighbors. And when we actually start to get to know our neighbors and start to love our neighbors and understand who they are, even beyond the religion in some ways, just to understand them as human beings, it makes such a difference in our relationships.

Well, a big fabric of society, you know, like we have a lot of teachers, doctors, and lawyers who are helping, who want to live peacefully too, but it's just we just get a bad rep because one person, you know, if you do the Google research. The number of people who are committing these bad crimes are very small number, but we always get the headline. Yeah.

So unfortunately. Well, and it's, it's always easiest to create an enemy and a scapegoat and to other someone, you know, and to say all of our problems are because of this person right here. We can see that all throughout history where entire groups of people, you know, genocides happen for that very reason. When we lose relationship and we lose this ability to actually have that sort of conversation. I just, I feel like it's a very important thing that we have to recapture in the times that we live in.

And some people ask that, you know, why don't you people condemn what's going on? So I, there's another misconception. Nobody likes it. Everyone condemns it.

There are people, if you go on Google Just search it. You'll see that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are condemning this and saying this is wrong. It all just takes if you're willing to take the time to look for that.

And part of it is a media that doesn't cover that necessarily.

Yeah, because negativity sells and good stuff is boring to listen.

Yeah, I really hear people that are they're like being interviewed and they're full of vitriol and anger against one people group, or even people that I may know in a community that get angry about a specific people at times, I rarely find that they've actually had a conversation with somebody from that group. It's usually hearsay and what we're told about different things.

We're all guilty of doing things like that. Yeah. But it doesn't make it right.

Yeah, it's part of our Maybe it's part of our just condition as humans in some way that we do that, and we have to fight against that, I know, but still it's frustrating. And so I know that I, in my small part, whenever I can, I try to say, "Now wait, you know, why don't we actually step back and look at these things?" Because there's a lot of misinformation that's being passed around. So let's get back to a couple of questions I actually did prepare. I mean, we could go off on rabbit trails forever, but you actually gave me a copy of the Quran, and I think a lot of people wonder about it. And again, very few people have actually opened it to read it, and I haven't read it in its entirety. I've read parts of it, and I'm so grateful for this gift that you gave me today. But a question I had: Is the Quran the Muslim Bible?

So as Muslims, we believe that the Bible was sent down, the Torah was sent down, and the Quran was the last scripture. So we have to believe in the books, former books as well. So I mean, we believe it's our book of faith, but we also have to believe that the Bible was sent down as well and the Torah was sent down. So yeah, it is the book that we learn from and we read from and we recite in our prayers.

And we believe that this is the final revelation that would come from God. No more revelation after this will come. So, but in order for us to believe that, we also have to believe, you know, in the previous books that came, because they were all sent by the same God with the same message. So we believe, but with the Quran, God said this is a final revelation and no more revelations will come till the end of time. So this is a book of guidance now. And that also he says that he will take care of it and no one, you know, till the end of time and it will be preserved.

So within Muslims, and I'm sure just like in Christians, there's so many different cultures within and countries that practice Islam. So you'll see all over the world people who memorize the Arabic, the Quran in its revealed form in Arabic. So there are plenty of people called hafidhs hafidahs, so many men and women, children who memorize the book in its entirety. Wow. I have cousins, I have kids, many people who do that.

Another thing is God says that if you take the Arabic written that came from God from any parts of the world, the textual writing is exactly identical. Not a word has been changed. Translations vary, but the Arabic text is going to be exactly the same no matter what part of the country you get a copy of the Quran.

So I may meet another Muslim who doesn't speak English, but if we're both talking about the Quran and we're speaking it, or, and we're mentioning a verse or something in Arabic, we can both— if we memorize a portion, it's the same text. That's why it's in one language.

You're both speaking the same language.

So our prayers are always in Arabic, regardless of what language we speak. Right.

Wow, that's fascinating. I didn't see, I didn't know that.

Yeah, see, like if you were German-speaking Muslim, when you went to pray, we would all be praying in Arabic.

Yeah, so there's the idea that— Of unity there. Yeah, right, I was gonna say unity is so important, and which, you know, well, I think that's why for so long those who are Catholics, it took a really long time for them to ever changed the language that they did en masse to English where common people were understanding it. I think in some ways for that reason, because they didn't want to lose that common connection. And yet it's kind of wonderful to hear the way that you're able to incorporate both, you know, an understanding into the language that you speak along with learning the original language so that you can pray for unity.

And you'll find many Muslims who maybe don't speak Arabic, um, didn't grow up speaking Arabic, so that's what translations are also important. They'll still memorize things in Arabic. You'll notice Muslims, almost every Muslim can read Arabic, but many of them won't know how, won't understand it or able to speak it. So translations and understanding meaning is very important too.

Very important because so we can know, but we are always, every child is taught how to read Arabic because you have to pray in Arabic. So a lot of them don't know the meaning of it, so therefore the translations are very important. I find myself read the translation, and she learned Arabic so she can figure out a lot of stuff because she wanted to make sure she knew what she was reading.

But that's— but that's our 5 daily prayers are done in Arabic. But if you ever want to just pray to God, just see, like, normal or regular, any other day, if you're just sitting or whatever, that can be done in English or whatever language you speak.

Like a connection, you have a direct link with God. Like, we don't have to go through anyone or anything, or a pastor We have a direct link with God. And we do pray 5 times a day at a different time.

Yeah. Well, and you know what? Every major religion I can think of— Christians, Jewish, Muslims— they all had, until fairly recently in church history, that was our practice too, you know, stopping to make sure we had actual moments in the day and actually scheduling that into our calendar. And I often tell people when it comes to our daily devotional practices as Christians, I always say, I say, you know what, a little bit of legalism is actually good when it comes to this, because if we don't start scheduling these things into our day, we can't take it for granted that it's just gonna happen.

It's interesting that you say scheduling, because I think there's a difference between scheduling it into your day, scheduling prayer into your day, versus scheduling your day around prayer. And so that's, that's kind of like how I personally go about it, trying to make sure that my day is scheduled around prayer times.

And the reason for that is people ask, why do you pray 5 times? Is to show that God comes first before anything else. Whatever you're doing in your daily life, when it's time for prayer, you leave everything and you go do the prayer to show who comes first.

That's why you might be in a public space and you might see a Muslim praying on the road or in the park or in the airport. I prayed in in so many different places. It's not something that someone should ever be scared of. It's just because someone, "Oh, I have to make my prayer in time." Well, that's an excellent point.

That's the times that we live in. No one should be scared by someone stopping to pray, and yet people get a little bit freaked out about it at times if that happens. To me, I see it as, you know, as Christians we're always talking about ways of how can we be in the world but be somehow countercultural to it as well so that we can actually show that we are being sent from something different, you know, that we've been a redeemed people, that we've been a called people in something different. And you would think stopping to pray would be one of those most like, wow, look, there's something different about them. And I really love the way that you just described the difference that you would actually form your day around prayer rather than having your day and then just fitting prayer into it. And I think that's wonderful.

So if we'll be traveling, we'll try to do it when we make it to our destination before this prayer. And if not, then we'll have to pull over and do the prayers. So that's why whenever I give my talk, I say, if you ever see somebody at the rest area praying, please don't get freaked out. They're just trying to, you know, fulfill their obligation of the prayers.

But I mean, it happens all the time. Like when I'm thinking about an event, I have to be like, okay, well, will I miss a prayer there? Or like, I was just going to see Black Panther and I was checking the times, making sure that I would go in a time where I still had enough time to pray or make it somewhere to pray. Even at work, because our prayer times follow like the sun's rising, setting, different times in the day. So when the time changes, things sometimes get earlier depending on how long the day is, when sun rises, sunsets. So there's a, there's a time period where like I won't get home in time to pray the second daily prayer, so I've had to pray at work. And luckily with my job now, it hasn't like affected teaching, but in my previous job, I actually had to have that conversation with my principal saying, I have to get this prayer done by this time, is there a way I can go somewhere and have someone cover my class? They've always been so willing and so let those things happen.

Now, since we're talking about prayer, I'd love to know, and I think a lot of people would be curious to know this too, is, is there a certain bodily position you have to be in when you say your prayers, or is it sufficient if you're driving down the road and it's raining outside, you can stay in the car? And I'm just curious.

So there's like two different types of prayers. There's the five main daily prayers that there are certain positions we do, and those positions have meanings to them. And then there's also just the regular prayer, like if you're in your car and you're speaking to God. So the 5 daily prayers are ones before sunrise, one is early afternoon, one's late afternoon, one's at sunset, and one's at nighttime. So being in a space where you can actually pray is very important. If you can get to the mosque, that's awesome, but if you can't, then you can pray at home. But if you're out and about, you know, making sure you are praying. Now, so that's why you see people out in public praying on the sides of the road.

Because there are certain positions we have to do when we're praying.

Like standing, bending, or on the floor.

Put our head down on the ground. Okay. So the reason why we put our head down on the ground is to humble ourselves in front of God, that God is powerful and we are nothing, so we put our head down. So there are certain positions we have to do when we're praying. But of course, if your health doesn't permit, like if somebody has arthritis or elderly people.

Like many elderly people pray on a chair.

They'll sit on the chair and do it.

And also we don't speak to others. That's one interesting— so for people who are seeing someone praying on the side and they might be saying, "Excuse me," and this has happened on planes, when you're on the plane they're like, "Why aren't they answering? Why aren't they talking?" It's because you're in like a mode of speaking to God.

Because when you're connecting with God, then you're just just talking to him. But then I always say there are always exceptions to the rule. If you see something harmful or somebody's life is in danger, then you can break that prayer. But otherwise, you're in conversation with God.

So I have that, like, when I knew I was going to pray in my classroom once the kids were gone at the end of the day, while I'm still there, I told my coworkers, "I'm praying, so if you're saying something to me, I'm not going to answer." That's what I say.

Right?

Just trying to let them know those things.

And I think that's good, and you know, that's good to let people know that too, so that they're unaware, because they're like, what's wrong with them? Do they go into, you know, robot mode? What happened? They're not responding, you know.

And so I try to find somebody, like if I'm at the airport, is there a place I can pray? Like I ask someone so no one gets scared.

And people don't understand, even if you're on vacation or summertime, you still have to pray regardless how much fun you're having. Time comes through prayer. Some people just can't comprehend that part. That's a must, it's a must. And before we pray, we always clean ourselves, like, you know, wash our hands and clean our mouth, make sure there's no food stuck in there, or, you know, because you're going in front of God.

The fancy term is ablution, but probably people don't know what that is.

Ablution is just cleaning yourself a little bit before you go in front of God.

Sure. Yeah. Well, and that's, uh, okay, um, that's, that's The symbolism behind that is really powerful too, though, you know, and I think it's in the practices that we take up daily that I think they actually shape us and form us into being people who actually live out our faith, you know, and actually find ourselves in the moments. I don't particularly have my 5 times a day that I pray. I try to be and a spirit of prayer throughout the day. I do have a very regimented early morning prayer. I wake up just about every morning around 4:00 because I go to work out and I do some other things like that. So the first thing I've had to teach myself when I start my day is I start with this rite of prayer. And it's originally, it's all on paper and I had to commit it to memory, you know, and it's about 10 pages long, but I finally memorize it all, but a couple years ago I started doing that practice. And I've been amazed that in sticking with that and sort of making that my daily routine and my daily prayer practice, I found that in moments when I have really needed prayers, like I've been in the hospital, a relative dying or a family member or someone else, there have been times when I've had words to pray to pray and words to say in those moments only because I had spent time being formed in prayer. It's an interesting thing to think about. And so I think that's—

Like for us as a Muslim, you're right, when we travel, we're going in the car, we have a prayer asking God to—

It's like a supplication prayer.

Yeah. Asking God to protect us while we're driving. As we go to sleep, we have a prayer. Go enter into the bathroom, there's a prayer asking God to protect us from any evil and stuff. So just making you more God-conscious for everything that you do. So this is what I was telling one of the person who was in my talk, you know, the thing is the whole purpose of doing all this is to do the right thing when no one is watching you. You know, that's when you're God-conscious, that you know God is watching at all times. You know, you don't steal because a policeman is standing there, but what if the policeman is not there? I do it because, you know, at any time God is always watching me. Yeah.

That's— those are some powerful things. I think all of us can learn from those things a lot. And, yeah, I'm just— as I'm taking it in and thinking about it again, I'm thinking, wow, in many ways this puts me to shame in my faith.

But I mean, there's so many similarities between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam because they're all Abrahamic faiths. Yeah, they're all Abrahamic faiths. So there are very similar practices. Of course there are differences, but there are also— there are those similarities.

And of course not every Muslim follows it to the T. Yeah. There's always back and forth. No one's perfect. We're all trying. None of us— I'm not perfect either. We're all trying. But that's what the faith teaches all of us, the same thing.

But everyone's just trying to follow to the best. Well, and you— as you say that, I think that would be a good time for this question. And by the way, listeners, I want to let you know our custodian at the building we're in just came in, and you may hear a vacuum cleaner anytime, and we might have to cut our conversation short or move to a different room. Just letting you know that might happen. But as we're talking about, you know, the common roots that we have as Abrahamic religions, this is a question that is often debated. Who is the God of Muslims?

So I would say we believe that God is the same God the Jews believe in, same God as Christians but we just don't believe that there are any partners. So we don't believe Jesus is God, but I'm— and I may be incorrect of how Christians view God, but I believe there's a God and there's God's Son. So that God would be the same God that Muslims, Christians, Jews believe in.

Okay, so there's just one God. So the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of Israel, is the the same God as the Muslims.

And so I think sometimes people get scared when they hear the word Allah, which is just the Arabic term for God. So if you're a Christian in an Arab country, the way you refer to God is Allah. If you're a Jew in an Arab country, you refer to God as Allah. Yeah, if you speak Arabic.

So, and that actually is a huge source of confusion for people. And I've heard people say before, they don't worship God, they worship Allah. And Allah. That's just like saying, yeah, right, that's the way you say it in Arabic. And it's interesting to have that conversation with people.

That was another misconception when I went to high school and gave a talk there. Those kids thought Allah was somebody other than God, you know, something different. I said, no, it's the same God. It's just if you were a Christian and you spoke Arabic, you would refer to God as Allah too.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, and if you're in that part of the world, that's just— yeah, so it's That's fascinating to people when they find that out. And I think at times they think, "No, it's a different god altogether with a different name designation." So that's actually why I wanted to ask that question, because I knew that people would have that question in mind. Let's see, I'm trying to think of a couple. You know, there's one I should get to, because I know this is one that's always coming up in people's minds. And it's one of them that kind of drives me crazy to an extent, so I can't imagine how it must treat you. Tell us about violence, because Muslims in our— it's like in the atmosphere, in the conversation that people have, it's like, oh, they're just such violent people. And I can only imagine what that must stir up in you, and I'd love for you to address that just a little bit.

It's funny because one of the meanings of Islam is peace, and whenever a Muslim greets another Muslim, you hear them say assalamu alaikum, which means peace be upon you. So many things are driven around peace. A lot of these violent things going on around in the world, us as Muslims here believe that if you're a true Muslim, you wouldn't be doing those things. And so we don't believe in a lot of those things that are happening. And we don't know why they're doing it.

So people always ask us, I'm like, I don't— I know as much as I live here, I grew up here, I know what everyone else knows, so I don't understand I wish they would stop because every time something bad happens on TV, we're praying, "Oh God, please don't let that," you know, because—

Or if someone refers to you as a non-American or something, you're like—

That is the most annoying thing for me.

Where do you think I live?

Like, "Where are you from?" I'm like, "Community Hospital, just like you." Right, right, exactly.

It used to annoy us, but we're getting used to it.

It still annoys me.

Yeah, no, it's— and it's okay.

So then I start asking I was just telling you this to some of my coworkers. I think I've done this maybe once when they're like, where are you from? I'm like, oh, I'm from Ohio, from Springfield. No, no, but where are you from? Like, yeah, Springfield. Like, well, I'm like, oh, you mean like my ethnicity? And then I'll talk about, you know, it's South Asian. That's where my family goes back to. But then asking, so where are you from? Yeah. Because your family had to come from somewhere also. Yeah. So.

Well, and that, one of my favorite sitcoms on TV is Aziz. Anasari, I think is how you pronounce his last name, and the character that he plays on that show, um, Parks and Recreation. Right, Parks and Recreation. And he's always asked, where are you from? And he's like, um, Atlanta, or is— I forget where he's from, it's one of the states. And they're like, no, are you really? Say exactly like you just said that. And he's like, no, really, I'm from like Georgia or something.

But you know what, I want to say one thing. I'm really— I feel like there's more good people in the world than there are bad. Because I feel like people like you, and then when I see after everything that happened when the Muslim ban was going on, all these people who came out of nowhere in the middle of the night trying to help. So there's— I see a lot more good in people, and this is where my faith gets stronger. And I've said that before, I've never felt prouder to be an American Muslim than now because I actually get to see people who do care. Who are willing to listen, who are willing to find out. So that makes me feel happy.

And so like living in a small city like this, most of the people here haven't seen anybody who maybe looks different than them. So that's why what they see in the media on violence is what they think. So that's why like I get questions or why other people get questions because people aren't used to seeing people with a different skin color, might look differently, and just some people might just automatically assume you don't speak English or things like that.

Yeah, another misconception they have because we cover our head, that women are oppressed. This one thing they always feel like, oh, you know, I feel bad for you. This is not an oppression. This is a choice we made. It's a requirement, but by choice. I never told my daughter to wear it.

She chose to wear it. And so how I explain that to when kids ask is it's very similar to like nuns covering their hair for the sake of God, or you always see Mother Mary, her hair is always covered in pictures and stuff, same reason, for modesty. And then to every woman who chooses to do it, everyone has a different reason. Some, for some, it's like my mother will always say it's because she wants to look like a Muslim when she goes out. For me, I do it for the purpose of modesty and just because I believe it's a commandment from God and I want to do whatever I can to please him. And for others, it's a symbol of empowerment, which it also is for me too, knowing that when I do things, I'm being judged by my character, who I am as a as opposed to my looks. And so there's so many different reasons. Unfortunately, some places they do make it a law and requirement, but in our religion there's no compulsion. So it is— there are so many things in religions that are requirements, but it's up to you whether you choose to do them or not.

Nobody can force it onto you. And what you see and hear on other places, a lot of it is cultural, but has nothing to do with the religion. Sure.

That's one thing, one of the things I always try to make clear is there is a difference between culture and religion. And there are so many Muslims of different cultures, so a lot of things are done differently. The way we cover our hair here is different than somewhere else. The clothing people wear is different. The food you eat is different. So just to distinguish that difference.

Well, we're actually running low on time, and I hate that. We may have to do like a part 2 one of these days and get back together. That's fine. The only thing I wanted to address really fast, and Following up on what we just said, and you had just said about the people who are so violent at times, you know, so we don't know what they're doing either. We're trying to figure that out. And I actually feel that way sometimes with branches of people would say they're Christians, but like the KKK would call themselves a Christian group. And I look at them and I go, there's nothing Christian about what you're doing. Or the Westboro Baptist Church that pickets the funerals and says, you know, "God hates fags," and all things like that, which is just terrible. And I don't associate that. And so I think of how strange it would be for someone to say to me, "Well, why don't you renounce Westboro Baptist?" Like, I do! How could I not? That's not even close to Christianity. "But they call themselves Christians." Yeah, they call themselves that, sure, but that's nothing even remotely close to what Christianity is. And so at times I've said those same things about people if they have a bad misunderstanding about, you know, well, all Muslims believe this and whatnot, and they're just sweeping generalizations. But that was one thing I just wanted to make sure we talked about while we were together because I just know it's something that, again, it's like in the air sometimes.

And I can assure you every Muslim that we know throughout America that we are friends with. I have not found one single Muslim who supports. Everyone's against it. Nobody understands why this is happening. You know, we're just as appalled as anybody else.

It's very frustrating for us as a Muslim, especially in America, to hear that things like this are happening. Because like, really? Like, we find so much beauty in our faith, and there's beauty in so many faiths, and to hear that someone's distorting something, it's very frustrating. Well, and it's—

there's a frustrating side of it to me too, and I think, you know, we were talking a while ago about guns and the prevalency of it, and just the school right behind the building we're meeting in now, like a 6-year-old or 8-year-old maybe a couple weeks ago came to school with a gun in their handbag, and another school, a 6-year-old came with a loaded gun in their handbag this week here in our city, and it seems like when the shootings happen, it's almost always some angry white guy And yet we immediately, "It must have been a Muslim," you know, it's all— but I mean, almost always it's some— it's a male. And statistically, the most dangerous group in the world of people who commit the most violence are males, you know, when you think about it. So if we want to talk about, you know, like putting an entire group of people somewhere because they might be dangerous, we probably should just lock up all the males by that logic, you know, when you think about it, by the ones who end up committing the violence. But how crazy would it be if we did just say that, like, well, every male is gonna act that way, you know, and that's how it goes. So yeah, that's right. I mean, some people may agree with that. I don't know.

It's really easy to stereotype in general. It's very easy. And it takes a lot on us as people to make sure that we don't do those things and we take the time to learn and have conversations like this. So it's just making sure, like, are we doing our part?

It's things like that. I hate that we're running low on time, so I'll kind of close this time together. And again, maybe we can get together for a part 2 and talk about some other things. But is there anything today that was really kind of burning on your heart, like, "Oh, I hope we get to talk about this," that we didn't get to yet today? Because I want to make sure if there was something real pressing that we would talk about.

Yeah, I would say my point, that if anybody has any concerns or things are still not clear, please contact some Muslim person, contact the mosque if you don't know any Muslim person. You know, just try to get a hold of somebody who you can actually ask.

Because we all know not everything you read on the internet is true. What? So it's easier to, you know, just go meet someone in person, talk to them in person. There are sites that we trust, but you know, there's so many things that you can Google on Google that are incorrect. So just making sure, you know, find someone to talk to. There are people out there.

And let them know that the people can visit the mosque. They're always open to anybody who wants to walk in, and they'll be happy to talk to you. And try to find the people rather than judge.

And it might sound hard to believe, but Muslims, just like anyone else, just want to live a peaceful life, pleasing God, raising their family, having a good job, having fun, you know, things like that. We have those same goals.

It's very disturbing for us too when we hear things, you know.

Yeah, and I think sometimes I try to put myself in your position in some ways to think not only is there something like another terrible shooting or a tragedy or violence, so you not only have the heartbreak of like, this is just awful, but also you have to deal with right after some loudmouth going, and you did it, you know. Knowing you didn't, but still, it's almost got to be this double heartbreak, you know, when that happens. And so I just, I feel like it's so important that we do continue having these conversations. And so in closing today, I want to remind everybody, and first one more time, just thank you for your generosity to have some time to talk today. But Samina and Sana, it's just been so great to sit and speak with you. And I want to remind everybody, if you are curious, and you would like a free copy of the Quran, they are offering that for free to you, just if you would like to learn more. That's how we learn so often, is when we read for ourselves and try to understand the perspective. And that email address that you can send to for that is sana.ahmed2010@gmail.com. And I'll try to make sure that we put all of that information information to on the web page so people could understand.

Please send in your address if you'd like the copy so we know where to send it.

Yes, that's right, that's right.

Thank you very much. Thanks for giving us this opportunity.

Sure thing. Appreciate it. Sure thing. And I always close my show by saying this because Voices in My Head is the name of the podcast. Samina, Sana, thank you for being the voices in my head this week.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Thank you for joining me here this week on the Voices in My Head podcast. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com. .com. Follow me on Twitter @RickLeeJames. Like my artist page on Facebook at facebook.com/RickLeeJames. And keep up to date on what I'm writing at my author page on Amazon.com. Make sure to follow my calendar on the website, and if you would like to have me come to your town to do a concert, a speaking engagement, or a book event, you can book me through my website by clicking on the link for Pare Booking Agency. That's P-A-R-E Booking. And finally, it would mean the world to me if you were to leave me a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast is on the internet. And now the benediction: May the God of peace, who raised Christ from the dead, strengthen your inner being for every good work. And may the blessing of God Almighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rest upon you and dwell within you this day and forevermore. Forevermore.

Amen.