Voices In My Head Podcast Episode #300 - 300th Episode Retrospective with guest host Matt Anderson

This episode of Voices in My Head is brought to you by Podbean. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile ready right from the start. Visit podbean.com/voices to find out more. That's podbean.com/voices. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes. Or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host, Rick Lee James, and this is a very special week this week. Why, you may be asking? Because today is our 300th episode celebration. Yes, 300 episodes of the Voices in My Head podcast. I know you can't believe it, and I can hardly believe it myself, but here we are. I wonder if any of you out there have actually listened to all 300 episodes. Probably not, but if you have, congratulations, and we're glad to have you on board. I am so glad to have a friend here this week who is one of the reasons that I actually started this podcast back in the day. Matt Anderson is my guest today. Matt and his guest host Ben run the Sci-Fi Christian Podcast, which I listen to— I guess I could say religiously. I listen to it about every time they put an episode out. But Matt decided to come on the show tonight with me and have a discussion about the 300th podcast and some different things that we've done over the years, some things that we have coming up down the road, not only with the podcast but also with my new album Thunder. And I am just so glad to have Matt Anderson from the Sci-Fi Christian Podcast on the show today. Matt, welcome to Voices in My Head.

All right, Rick, thanks for having me. And hello listeners, how are you today? Well, I guess I can't answer, but hello.

They're furiously like typing into their phones right now trying to respond, but they can't.

So I don't know if you remember this or not, Rick, but this is actually the second time I've been able to— well, I've been on your show before, of course, multiple times, but actually hosting and being able to ask you questions, because the listeners may not know, but I'm going to be asking you the questions tonight. And yeah, we've done this before. Do you remember which episode number it was for?

Gosh, I'm trying to remember what episode that would have been. I wish I could. Was it— was it like a significant one, like 100 or 200?

I really can't remember exactly. So it was 5 years ago, back in February 2013, it was episode 60, and you had me come on, and I was able to interview you, and we were able to talk about Basement Psalms live.

Oh wow, back all the way at Basement Psalms. Wow, that's been a few albums ago now.

It's kind of crazy to think that we've known each other that long, actually.

No, I know.

5 years. Well, it's probably more than that then. If I, if I was on your show in February 2013, we must have known each other 2012, 2011.

We must have before then. But I remember before I started my podcast, I, I found you guys on The Sci-Fi Christian, and I was listening and I thought, this is great, I would just love to do something kind of like this and try to find my own voice. And, and I always have loved The Sci-Fi Christian, and I just think there's so many great episodes and you guys just cover so many different topics, not always sci-fi, usually is, but sometimes it varies into different things. But it's always just so good, and, and so a lot of what I wanted to do was inspired by you guys. So I honored to have you on here, uh, as the host today. Uh, and I'm gonna kind of turn over hosting duties to you, but I did want to make a plug for your show because it's so good, and I can't imagine anyone listening hasn't heard your show. But if they haven't, they need to check out the Sci-Fi Christian Podcast.

I appreciate you saying that. I know that you're always really complimentary, and, uh, I really appreciate, uh, all your kind words over the years and saying that. But, you know, I— here's my opening question. I've heard you say many times that The Sci-Fi Christian was one of your inspirations for starting Voices in My Head, but what are some other podcasts early on, other than The Sci-Fi Christian, that spoke to you and inspired you?

Well, you know, there was a comedy podcast I really liked listening to for a while. It gets a little blue sometimes, but it was really sort of the idea of what I was wanting to go for with just having guests on. It's called Never Not Funny, hosted by Jimmy Pardo, and it was one of the first podcasts that I had heard that was sort of in just kind of a long form. You know, the show didn't necessarily have a set time frame, but they always had different guests every week, and it was just so well produced. And I thought, man, this would be fun. Of course, it was a comedy podcast, which I love comedy, but I'm not a comedy— I'm not a comedian. I don't even know how to tell a good joke. I always mess it up. You know, it would be like, why did the chicken cross the road? And then I would mess it up from there. But that's one of the podcasts that I would listen to. I'm trying to think of some of the other ones back in the early days. Because I like comic books, I know I listened to the Spider-Man Crawl Space podcast, and Superman Homepage has had a number of different podcasts over the years. I think it used to just be called the Superman Homepage podcast. And of course, I've always liked Fresh Air, which is an NPR— it's not really a podcast, but it's a radio show that now airs in podcast form. And a lot of the public radio shows I really have enjoyed over the years. And so I guess probably those would be some of my early ones.

Okay. Now, over the years— so you've been doing this since, uh, late 20— or 2012, correct?

I think that's right. Yeah, I think that's right.

So you've had lots and lots of guests, lots and lots of memories. I think it's kind of fun just to start early on in this conversation to maybe, uh, for you to share with your listeners what are some of your favorite memories, favorite moments from these 300 episodes?

Man, there have been a lot.

Now I'm going to lead up to favorite guests, so get ready to answer that as well. But let's start with moments or memories.

Okay, favorite moments on the show. There have been a couple. One that always comes to my mind is when I had Stephen Tobolowsky on the show. I guess this would get into guests just a little bit. But Stephen Tobolowsky is an actor that has been in hundreds of films, I think, now, and TV shows, and he's just sort of a character actor. He was in the movie Groundhog Day and he played Ned Ryerson, and he came on the show. And what was really interesting and became like a really cool moment for me is he's Jewish and he wrote a book about kind of returning to his faith after many years. And it was just one of those episodes that it doesn't always happen, but I really felt like there was a moment in the on the show where, at least on my end, I just felt like the Holy Spirit was really moving in my heart. And both of us were starting to get kind of teary as we were talking, and we were sensing the idea of the goodness of God and just the, the different ways that he calls us back to himself. And so that's one of a few times on the show that I've really felt like, like, wow, this is, you know, maybe not just a show, maybe we are entering into the territory sometimes of spiritual formation, you know. And that, that kind of thing really excites me when it happens on the podcast. Another great time, you know, I've also had those moments with, with people— I can't hardly say the moment without the guests, even though we're going to get talking about guests— but over the last year when Andrew Peterson came on again and we just talked about his Resurrection Letters albums. And again, I just felt like there was some real genuine moments where you just felt like the Lord kind of took over the direction of the show in the middle of the show and kind of felt ourselves being carried along. And, and then there's been a couple times even with, with friends like John Wilkerson on the show that I've also felt very much that way. So for me, my favorite moments have been when I really felt like we were in tune to where God was leading us through the show. So those are just some of my, some of my favorite memories, honestly, or times like that. That's what I always hope for and I go for when I do this show.

So we've mentioned that you and I have been friends for multiple years, but maybe the audience may not know, we've never actually met in real life. So when we say friends, it's, you know, we've met through podcasting world and we start talking online, and then we just, you know, relationship builds. So you've had guests that I would also call friends. You mentioned John Wilkerson, Michael Potith, of course my co-host Ben DiBono. But if I can just chime in here and name one of my favorite guests that you've had, besides my friends of course, I really love— it was a few years back now, but you were able to get one of my favorite praise and worship bands, All Sons Daughters, all sorts of others on your show. And it kind of just, as I was thinking back, knowing that I'd be talking with you tonight and being able to ask you some questions, you've had, uh, you know, them, that you've had other, uh, well-known people. You had, uh, an author I like, a professor, Dr. John Walton, uh, talking about, uh, a book that we also talked about on the Sci-Fi Christian, The Lost World of Genesis, uh, Genesis 1, I think it was. Uh, so the question I'm leading up to here is How do you get some of these bigger name people? You mentioned multiple people here tonight that are not just friends of ours from podcasting communities, but well-known people. How do you go about booking these pretty great guests?

Yeah, well, you know what? It's been a lot of trial and error and trying to figure out ways to make contact with people over the years. It's gotten easier the more that I've done it because the show has gained more notoriety, thankfully. And I think I've gotten better as a host and the audio quality has gotten better. I look at some of those early days, I'm surprised anybody came on my show in the beginning because I just didn't know what I was doing, you know, audio quality-wise, and then trying to bring in a call. But I email a lot of people and I just kind of throw it out there and go, hey, I have this podcast and this is who our listeners are, and I'm really interested in your book or your, your album or this movie that you're in. And I just try to keep reaching out, and I keep trying and keep trying. And sometimes I have to go through management companies, and sometimes they're very easy to work with and are happy to do it because podcasts are a great way and an easy way to kind of get the message out because they can just throw a link up on their page. And so it kind of works both ways for them as well as it does for me trying to get guests on. And then a lot of times some friends, you know, or guests that I have on know other people, and then we get in touch. Michael Card is a good example of that. Very early on, I had Michael Card on, and he kinda name-dropped a couple of his friends, and so I contacted those people online through their management companies, and, and I said, hey, you know, Michael Card was on my show and he said that you were his favorite female songwriter, you are his favorite singer or something like that. And they usually write back and they're like, "Wow, that's so great." And I say, "Hey, I'd love to have you on the show." So it's all, to me, it's been relationships and just trying to form those relationships with people. I've been amazed at the way that if you take an interest in someone and what they're doing, and I really do, like I try to read every book you know, from every author I have on this show and listen to every album and watch every film and TV show that people are on just so I know when they come on. And if you let them know that you really are a fan of what they're doing, I think a lot of times they really do, you know, want to come on and talk about it. And so that's just been my thing. A lot of people— I don't know how I've gotten some of the artists on that I've gotten. All Sons and Daughters was great. You know, some of the actors like The one that I mentioned, like Stephen Tobolowsky, that was a much smoother thing than I would have ever expected. It was almost a God thing. I just had on the last episode Russ Taff, who is a 6-time Grammy Award winner. I never would have thought, like, wow, why would he be on my show? But it's kind of become a place that people like to come on, I think, and share about what they have going on. So I know that was a very long answer, and I apologize. I tend to do that. It's been a lot of learning and a lot of trial and error and a lot of making contacts with people and becoming friends with people.

So this might be a tough question. I know that people are going to be hearing this, what your next answer is, so it might be hard to pick just one. So I'll let you have a handful of— however many you want. You can do multiple. But are you able to say after 300 episodes, favorite guests?

You know what? Just one favorite guest or—

Oh, that's what I'm saying. I don't want you to— because I don't want you to feel like you have to just pick one after all this time. Yeah, but do you have a couple, maybe one or two or three that, uh, stick out without feeling like, uh, you're leaving anyone out?

Oh, certainly. And, and again, I hesitate to say because I really have enjoyed almost every episode. There's been, there's been a couple that haven't been, uh, what I would have planned, uh, throughout 300 episodes.

Wait a second, this might be good. You don't have to say the name, but can you, without being specific, what happened with the one that, uh, didn't go how you wanted? Like, would you consider it one that you don't actually like from the, from the 300?

There have been a couple, and I, I would never want to say their names because I think they were, they were sweet people. But occasionally, and this has been a very rare occasion, and, and sometimes I've even tried to edit the show to make it seem less so, but there have been a couple of guests that, whether it be for for language barriers, or, you know, maybe English isn't their first language or something. Or just sometimes people are a lot better sort of on the page than they are in person at times. And I've had people before that have, you know, I'll ask a question hoping that they'll kind of give a long answer, and the answer just kind of comes out like, "Yes." You know, it's just kind of yes or no type thing. So that would be like the the worst kind of guest because they're wonderful people. But you know, on an audio show, you want people that can talk a little bit.

Yeah, I totally get that. Okay, so let's go back to positive. Give us some of your favorite guests that you've had over the years.

Well, my very favorite that comes to mind, just from a standpoint of, I just really came to love him as a friend, and not only as the great theological influence that he has been on so many of us, but Walter Brueggemann. And I've had him on a few times, and we've become friends. And, um, you know, every now and then we talk. And, and that was just such a joy that first time. I didn't know what to expect because, as you know, you know, you're in the theological world with studies, you never know if you're, uh, you're going to get somebody who's a little bit cranky or someone who's going to be, you know, just, uh, you know overly professorly, like, you know, when you talk and you're not sure if you're going to be able to kind of match wits with them. But Walter Brueggemann has been such a gracious and kind and, and just really a warm person who reminds me of Jesus. And just the fact that, you know, I can send him an email— matter of fact, just yesterday I think it was, I was emailing him and asking him if he wanted to come on the show again, and he said he really liked to, but he's having some health problems right now. So that's sort of a prayer request too in the midst. He's getting up in years, and, um, but he has just been somebody who has so faithfully served the church. And, and genuinely, like, the conversations we've had both on and off the show have just been some real highlights of my life, you know. And, and so I really appreciated Walter Brueggemann. Um, and Andrew Peterson, uh, is always a delight to have on the show. And I, I've forgotten how many times Andrew has been kind enough to come on the show, but he has been a real influence on me, not only as a songwriter, but he's just such a great author and person. And the way he carries himself as an artist has, I think, taught me a lot about relationship and not seeking to have sort of a rock style or rock star personality, but actually having someone that wants to build and form community with their art. And so that's a couple. Who else would I say? Um, let me think here. And again, I'm going to leave out people. Um, I mean, honestly, I'm not just saying it because you guys are here, but times when you and Ben have come on have been great for me just because I've, uh, I've enjoyed your show so much. And, uh, the, the, uh, Superman Symposium that we did was a lot of fun.

Yeah, no, I mean, when you and I get together on the show, I think we usually have more fun episodes talking about Spider-Man, talking about Superman. But you did early on, uh, do one with Ben that I really enjoyed where my co-host Ben had been a Protestant pastor and then through study started to change his mindset theologically and converted to Catholicism. And I think you did a two-part with him, a two-part episode where he talked about, you know, what that process was like. And I can't remember if it was that two-parter or a different time you got together where He also was able to walk through some different misconceptions about Catholicism, and man, I love that. So when it comes to my favorite episodes, I know it's weird because Ben DiBona is one of my best friends, but I would say that's one of my favorite set of episodes that you've done. But yeah, you and Ben together, I think you guys are a good team podcasting-wise.

Yeah, well, you know, Ben is, as you know, because you're so close to him, but he's just brilliant and he's always got good insights. And that was one of my favorite episodes to the Catholic Questions Answered. And I think that was great. It's been fun to follow his journey. And unlike you, he and I have actually met and hung out a few times in Chicago.

Have you guys met multiple times or just once?

It's been at least twice that we did Chicago, because he had that really funny sci-fi Christian story time about the last time we were in Chicago.

C2E2, right?

Yes. And we, you know, my dream would be to get you guys out here for this concert I have in February. Just, you know, Take a plane trip, you know, and then just come out and, and you could do a, a live podcast from the John Legend Theater when we do the album release party.

But that would be awesome.

That's a dreaming thing right now. But, uh, anyway, um, I forget where we were going. You were asking about some of my favorite guests.

Uh, yeah, so yeah, you're bringing up, uh, Ben. And I mean, I know it's tough because you don't want to leave it, then we've got people listening who've been on your show.

So, oh yeah, and, uh, and they've They just— I mean, I really love the people that have come on here, and it's hard for me to say, but because I don't want to leave anybody out, and over 300 episodes, you just have so many. But, you know, certain highlights for me— I mean, I've always loved having Brian Zahn on the show too. He's got another new book coming out, and it's just been so great to have a way to talk to people that I admire and who have been shaping me, and sometimes people who I disagree with. Sometimes I have people on that I don't always share the same views that they have theologically, which I don't think we have to, and that's fine. But it's been good to have conversations about things that even are maybe sometimes outside of my comfort zone, and we've had a few of those things. We've had I'll tell you two of my favorite moments on the show that don't have to do with celebrities or musicians or artists or anything, and people who have become dear friends of mine. I think it was episode 200, 100 episodes ago, when I met at the local Jewish temple, Temple Shalom, and we recorded a podcast there. And I kind of, almost like I did with Ben, I was asking different questions about Judaism to the rabbi here in town, Rabbi Kosberg. And that was a really great experience for me. I learned a lot. I'm still learning a lot from him. And then another one we did with a couple of Muslim ladies from our community, and we sort of did these question and answers about Islam and things that have a lot of misconceptions. And I just think that's so important, and it's been so fruitful for me And I didn't know they were going to do this. Again, this was a result of the podcast, but these ladies who are a couple of pretty prominent Muslim individuals here in town, they're a mother and daughter, they invited me to come to Muslim or Islamic Day of Ohio is what it's called. I had no idea what to expect, and their speaker that night when they invited me was Todd Greene, who I've also had on the podcast, who is Christian theologian, and he was there talking about Islamophobia. And throughout the course of the evening, in this room full of people, Wittenberg University here in town, they started giving out awards to people in the community just for different service and things. And I didn't get like an award, but they made mention of my podcast and they pointed me out in the midst of this assembly, and they said, we just want to thank Rick Rick Lee James for his podcast Voices in My Head and giving us a chance to explain more deeply about our faith and, and to clear up misconceptions because the media is so bad about misrepresenting who we are. And we are just so grateful for the fellowship we've shared. So those things to me have been wonderful moments as a result of the podcast. And again, it doesn't have to do with celebrity, but it has to do with community right around us. And it's been a learning experience for me. And teaching me to let go of some of even my misconceptions and teaching me to learn new things. So those are some, some moments that I think I will treasure the rest of my life that have come about because of this podcast.

All right, I have a few more questions about the last 300 episodes, but before we do more of those, I want to take a— just a sidetrack and talk more about you as a person, Rick. So the reason I think that your podcast has continued to get more and more successful is because people get to know you through your recordings and find out what a great guy you are. Uh, yeah, your interests are interesting, and you are able to, uh, describe, um, you're able to really, uh, get your thoughts out there in an accessible way for people. And, uh, it's, you know, I wouldn't say controversial. Sometimes you talk about things that I think other Christian podcasts aren't talking about, so I appreciate that myself. But, uh, so what I want to ask is just a few things about yourself that I'm interested in right now. So, uh, let's see, I think I'll start with more of the sci-fi side since we mentioned that my podcast is called The Sci-Fi Christian. So, uh, I know you love Superman, he's your number one hero, but you also really like Spider-Man, which is my number one hero. So we both agree they're both great. Talk about these heroes and how— I mean, first of all, how close is Spider-Man, you know, as a number? Is he a number two for you? You know, Superman number one, Spider-Man number two?

Well, first of all, thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate that. But as far as Superman and Spider-Man go, let's put it this way. Spider-Man's my number one in the Marvel universe.

Okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

And Superman would probably be my number one in the DC. But boy, Batman's real close. I like them both.

I mean, listening though, it feels to me like Superman's really your go-to. For example, you Let's see, when was it? Not that long ago, you had an author that wrote a book many years ago called The Gospel According to Superman. And man, that was a great find. You just found that at a used bookstore or something, or where'd you— I can't remember, where did you find this old book?

It was something like that. I found this old book, I may have come across it on eBay or something. I don't remember exactly where I first saw it, but I saw it somewhere and it was, you know, like a— it was almost so cheap I could— it was almost ridiculous not to buy it.

Yeah, see, I found it— Before you had the podcast episode, you had posted a picture of it on Facebook and I was excited to see it. It looked pretty cool, but it's out of print now, but you were still able to go and find the author, track him down, and get him on the show. Awesome conversation. Yeah. But through an episode like that and an episode like earlier this year when we celebrated Superman's 80th Anniversary, and you kind of talk through just a small portion of his history. I mean, to me it comes through clearly that he's your number one. I mean, would you say that's true?

Uh, probably anymore these days. He, he probably seems to be, and especially since DC Comics has kind of rediscovered the treasure that he is, and, and in Rebirth have kind of been writing him the way he's supposed to be written, uh, versus is trying to make him like a dark, you know, character like he had been for years. I almost gave up on the comics completely. But yeah, probably he— I would say he is, uh, is probably my favorite in, in the comic book realm. And maybe it's because I root for the underdog sometimes, um, and you wouldn't think that with Superman because he's so powerful, but he seems to be one of those characters like he gets a lot of hate and so many people just don't like him.

Yeah, even just since I've been podcasting, that was a— I think that that feeling has started to shift a little bit for Superman.

Yeah, and, uh, and I think he's— I just think there's some interesting parallels with him too. It's, it's hard for me to, um, uh, not like him because of the things I remember him for growing up. And you know, you and I both grew up watching the Super Friends, you know, and Superman was always sort of this, this picture of goodness, and you know, he was gonna do what was right. And he kind of works best to me when, when he's sort of like your dad. You know, whenever you're a kid, he's sort of like the age of when you're a kid that your dad would probably be. And so he's sort of, to me, this shining example of like, this is what you're supposed to be like as a man, you know. You're supposed to be kind. You may have all the power in the world, but you hold back for the sake of others, and you don't hurt them, and you do show kindness. And, but, you know, it was interesting when— and John Galloway, by the way, is the guest that I sought out who wrote that book 40 years ago, and he still has such a sharp mind, and it was great having him on the podcast. He also, you know, helped me see some different things just about the myths that we have in society and the differences between Jesus. And, you know, like, he would say it's not a good equivalent to talk about, like, Jesus as a superhero type thing, because whereas somebody like Superman comes in to save the day and set things back like they were, Jesus comes in not to save the day, but to disrupt things, you know, and, and to sort of like, like bring you a whole new set of problems you wouldn't have if you hadn't met Jesus in the first place. And so it's interesting because a lot of times Superman gets compared to Jesus, and it was fun having that podcast because it was, it was almost a— the Gospel According to Superman episode was almost like, well, let me show you all these ways that Jesus is so different, you know, than, than this hero. As good as Superman might be, Jesus is so much different and, uh, so much even more countercultural. But I don't know if that answers it or not, but I, I really do. Yeah, I think I'll always have a special place for Superman in my heart.

All right, so talk about— let's see, well, before I ask about Spider-Man, uh, you mentioned the current comics. Are you able to, uh, be caught up with current comics? Or, I mean, I know for my my own life, and I'm guessing it's similar for you, it's, uh, life gets busy. It's kind of hard to keep up on everything, but you can still try to get things from the library sometimes or pick up a book from the store. So are you able to keep up on the current state of Superman or Spider-Man, or where you at with that?

Um, you know what, I am with Superman. I've had to kind of decide. Um, the Dan Slott years broke me with Spider-Man, and I stopped reading it. I just didn't— I wasn't into it anymore, and I just kind of completely dropped it and decided much as I love the character, I'm not loving how he's being written. So I haven't read Spider-Man in probably over a year, although I've heard it's gotten a lot better. And so I'm gonna actually try to find some issues, maybe from the library or some cheap ones from the comic shop, because I've heard that's getting better. But I've, I've tried to keep up with Superman and Batman at least. But you're right, it's so hard, and especially as a parent, um, there's just not enough hours in the day. And then Right now life has just been extremely hectic between podcasting and worship leading, and then this new album I'm working on has just been all-consuming. I've learned a whole lot about marketing over the years, and it's not my favorite thing, but I just run out of time in the day. I can't do it all. Pardon me for coughing.

So with Spider-Man, you said you had been reading for a long time. Which of the two heroes— well, we talked about Super Friends already, but which of the two heroes do you feel like you actually were buying and reading first?

I think I probably was like DC Comics, whether it was Superman or— I used to always like to try to find the ones that would have more than one hero, but it was always a bonus for me if Superman or Batman were in that issue. You know, when you're a little kid, you're especially being economical. So I'm sure I was buying like Superman comics back in the day. And Actually, if you remember, I don't know if you remember the, the Kenner action figure Super Powers. There were comic books of those that I used to buy as a little kid, and Superman of course was in them. And but the earliest comic I remember having is a DC Comics Presents that was Superman and Santa Claus, and I still have that comic. And so it's, it's probably, you know, What, what better thing from childhood can you imagine than Superman and Santa Claus both together in the same story?

So, well, and listeners, as you're hearing this, if you want to hear Rick and myself talking about Spider-Man, I think we've done a couple different episodes. Maybe, uh, you think we've done one or two on, uh, Spider-Man here? Check the archives. There's— that's right, we're discussing our love of Spider-Man. So let's move away from superheroes and let's go to another pop culture character who recently has become even more popular, but I think you've had a long-standing love of Mr. Rogers.

Oh yes, yes, definitely.

So you started a Twitter called Mr. Rogers Say, and so @MrRogersSay, before the documentary, before he started getting back into the public light, right?

You're right. Yeah, it was—

it's kind of crazy. I mean, you were right ahead of this, uh, wave of love and nostalgia. No, I don't know if it's nostalgia, my appreciation for what Fred Rogers gave to the world.

Yeah, well, it's been, it's been very interesting because I started that, uh, Twitter account just because I was finding, um, I was very discouraged and, and getting very angry as 2016 came to a close and, you know, we had the election and it just seemed like people's anger and hate and, I mean, it just, you know, the environment was not good. I mean, it's still not good, but I think it's gotten a little bit better since then. And I was just downhearted and discouraged, to be perfectly honest with you. I just felt like as a Christian. I saw so many Christians supporting things that Christians should not be supporting, no matter what political party they were a part of. And it wasn't just that they were supporting it, it was like vocally and loudly. And I was just really feeling discouraged at that time. I thought, "What have we become?" You know, in the church. And I read a book somewhere before that, probably a year prior, called The Simple Faith of Mr. Rogers. And that book— there's a few books that you've come across in life that you feel like God really does something in your heart and changes you, and will always be grateful to find them. And that book for me was one of those times. A lot of people may have found Fred Rogers to be boring or kind of milquetoast or whatever you want to call him. Some people call him a sissy just because of how gentle he was. But I had no idea until I read that book, he was an incredibly disciplined person, and that personality that he cultivated was not by accident. It was part of his discipleship. And that book started going in depth. Again, it's The Simple Faith of Mr. Rogers by Amy Hollingsworth, if anybody wants to read it. It just goes in depth about basically his spiritual life. It's kind of a spiritual biography of the man and went into his daily prayer rituals and different routines and the things that he would do on a regular basis and the prayers he would pray before going on the set. And he was very, he was very disciplined about it. And he was, as friends would say, he would be even more Mr. Rogers off the set than he was on the set. You know, it was like he was so intentional about seeking Christ in his life. And there were times that even though on the show he wasn't, you know, on public television preaching or anything, there were times that I think people were experiencing maybe we would even call them conversions at times, by his presence in his life. And so anyway, he just became very influential to me. And I started this Twitter account around the time of the elections of 2016, feeling very low and downhearted. And I just found that there are a huge number of quotes by the man. There's books that he's written, there's YouTube video clips, there's, you know, of course the show you can watch. But it was just almost the exact opposite of what I was feeling in the environment culturally. And I needed that type of encouragement. And the more I would read these quotes, I thought, "I am hearing the voice of Jesus through these quotes by Fred Rogers." And that's what I was feeling in my heart. It was almost as if the Holy Spirit was speaking new things of encouragement to my heart and new directions and new disciplines. And so I just started sharing them on Twitter and I just said, you know, I wanted to call it Mr. Rogers Says or Mr. Rogers Said or something like that, but you've run out of letters. You can't have a name that long. So it's just Mr. Rogers Say. And at the time of recording this, which is December 30th, 2018, We have over 20,000 people following that Twitter account.

That's amazing.

There are times, like, I don't know what happens in the culture, but there's times that we'll add like 100 people a day or more. And I always get comments from people saying, I just needed this so bad. I'll get direct messages from people that'll tell me— I've had people tell me they were almost ready to end their life tonight and they read this quote. And they said, "Something changed and it encouraged me and helped me and helped me see that I was loved." And I just needed it so desperately. So I've told people before, I feel like it's the best ministry I've ever done in my life. And that's all I do. And it encourages me too, to be able to just post those things every day that have been really special, encouraging things to me.

And that is powerful. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's quite amazing, the effect. And then when that documentary came out, people really started following it, you know, on Twitter. And I've had people tell me that it just feels like the exact antidote of what they needed, you know, for the current sort of rhetoric that's in the air, that they need it as a reprieve from all that. And many people have said it's become the the one place of goodness on Twitter. So I don't know if that's true, but a lot of people come there hoping to find something. And you know what, I'll tell you something kind of cool. There's a Mr. Rogers connection to my new album. Do you want to talk about that now or wait?

Well, yeah, well, I was just about to kind of transition there. I was going to say, you have this ministry that you're doing through Mr. Rogers Say, You also have the ministry of Voices in My Head. But correct me if I'm wrong, but would you say that music is your true love when it comes to ministry?

Uh, yeah, and it's primarily what I do. It's, you know, the podcast is sort of an outlet, and Twitter's fun, but yeah, music is sort of my bread and butter, I guess.

So we have to talk about Thunder, but before we do that, real quick, just for my own sake, Uh, how old were you when you knew that you wanted to make a life and career out of, uh, doing music for God?

Oh man, I— for God or for me? That's a good question because, uh, where it's like focus on Christ. Yeah, you know, I was in high school when I knew I really wanted to do music, and I think it was probably closer to the time I was getting out of high school before I had a real change in my heart that I wanted to do it not just for me, but it became clear that it was going to be probably what I did in ministry was with music. And in fact, there was a point I thought music was such an idol to me. I think I was a junior in high school and I just loved it so much. It just ate up all my time, you know. I thought as I was sensing the Lord calling me into ministry, I thought that meant I was going to have to give up music because it felt like it was becoming such an idol to me. I remember surrendering that to the Lord after many weeks of not wanting to do it. I remember even kind of being at a service and praying through and just asking or telling God, "Whatever You want, even if it's giving up music," for you, I'll do it. And it was almost like in that moment of surrendering it, I got it back. And it was like, I don't want you to give this up. I just— I want to be God, you know, in your life. I've given it to you for a reason. So I'd say pretty, pretty much, you know, through high school, the end of my high school career was when I really felt like it was not something just that I wanted to do, but I really felt like it was a calling that I had to do. And and ministry was the calling, but it seems like God has continually used music consistently throughout my ministry, so I'm very grateful to get to do that.

All right, so flash forward, this is your third album coming out. Where does this one rank, uh, not in terms of, uh, content, but in, uh, how it came about and kind of the whole production process for Thunder.

Well, and it's actually not my third. I don't know, it might be my sixth or seventh, but it's my third since I've met you. Right, since you met me. And it's probably the third that I actually feel like is a good enough quality that it's okay, we can just say it's my third, you know, because a lot of them were like home recordings and things like that beforehand. But when I actually got to work with some professional people. The progression of music for me has been a long thing. I first did an album when I was in college, and my sister produced it for a senior project. That was in the '90s, and it was all way different than the music that I do now. A lot of the songs I don't even necessarily— I'm not sure I agree with all of them theologically at this point anymore that I wrote at that time. But then, you know, I got out of college and I wasn't touring or doing music full-time because I was working in churches. And so I do like home recordings and things, but I really felt like a strong call to do more than what I was doing. And when I started doing the podcast, I just felt like it would be a necessary way and a helpful way for me to make some contacts in the music world and have conversations with people who who were in the music business a little bit more than I was and were also doing ministry. So honestly, as we talk about 300 episodes, the podcast for me became a way for me to start again making connections and relationships with people and learning new things. And through this podcast, that led to my most recent album up to the one I'm about to release, which was Hymns, Prayers, and Invitations. And that was my first album of songs that actually were published on a national international level with Lifeway Worship. That was my first time in real recording studios with professional musicians who do this for everybody from Chris Tomlin to Garth Brooks. They're playing for everybody in the studio. Now they were playing for me, which was awesome to get to do an album like that. I feel like the quality of that album really went up. For about 3 years now I've been touring on that album and sharing it in a lot of places, and it's been wonderful because that whole album is all congregational worship music. Even just this morning I did a concert and all the songs I did were off of that album. God's just been really good to help me be able to write songs or rearrange old hymns in ways that I think have become accessible in a lot of ways to to small and large congregations. This year was kind of a highlight for me because one of the songs off of that album, "Advent Hymn," has been added to, I think it's 627 radio outlets right now, which means that's like over 600 different places throughout the country and some in Canada and some in the UK that were playing that song on the radio this year, and it became, according to Christian Radio Weekly, it was the number one most added song on radio for any independent artist. And so that's really amazing.

Congratulations.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I, and I'm just so, uh, I feel so blessed because it's been such a long journey, and, um, and I feel like I, you know, I still feel like I'm making it up as I go. I don't know what the next step is supposed to be. I was telling my wife yesterday, I said, I wish it was like cutting the grass where you know where to start and you know where to finish and you know when it's done. But with music, for me, I just feel like I'm constantly cutting through the brush in the jungle trying to figure out where the path is. And so it's been difficult. But I forget what the original question was.

Yes, the original question was How different has this process been for Thunder compared to the other ones you've worked on?

Sorry, yeah, that's what it was. Sorry to get off track.

No, it's good. I like the history. That's good.

But it has been different. The difference between these two albums, Hymns, Prayers and Invitations that I did with Lifeway, wonderful experience. Actually, both of these albums, wonderful experiences in different ways. When you go in to cut a record with a company like Lifeway, who's big time, you go in the studio and you do a whole album in one day. Like, they come in and the musicians, they hear the song one time, they go in with their charts, they play it, you maybe do 2 or 3 takes tops, and they get the song done and it's finished, you know, and it's fast. And then I spent a couple days recording vocals and all All told, the process took about 3 days, but of course we were waiting on some permissions and things to come through, so it took almost a year before we were able to release the album. But really, in about 3 days' time, the project was done and spread out. So it was amazing how fast that happened. But with this one, on Hymns, Prayers, and Invitations, I didn't do a lot of the instrumentation on that album. I played mostly just electric guitar solos on a few different songs, and everything else was other instrumentalists, which was great. It was actually a fun way to work, and I got to just be the singer, and it was cool. But with Thunder, I made friends with Brothers McClurg, a really great band out of Buffalo, New York area. And they do a lot of traveling around, and they've been featured artists numerous times at the National Worship Leader Conferences., and that's where I met him for the first time. And we just kinda hit it off. And Chris Hoisington, who is part of Brothers McClurg, he is a really good producer, and he and I started talking about maybe me coming up to New York and recording a couple songs there and seeing how it went. And if we liked how it went, maybe doing a whole album. And I had this opportunity come up to record a song by Rich Mullins that had never been published before, never been released. And I felt like, well, maybe this would be a good chance. I'll go up in the studio and we'll get this song recorded and see how it works out. And we liked how it went. And the difference in the recording process is I set aside about a week, a week's worth of time. And the huge difference was Because this is a completely independent album, all of the financing is on me. So, you know, it's a huge endeavor to, you know, start to finish, we're looking at, you know, at least $20,000 to make a project like this. So it's a huge financial burden to go into it. But you go in and you record for about a week and I got to, instead of, you know, doing it the Nashville way, which there's nothing wrong with, you go in and record and you're done in a couple days, you know, I got to play piano on the songs and I got to play acoustic guitar and electric guitar and Mellotron and take time to, you know, do some background vocals myself. And so this album is, it's so much more me, you know, when you hear it, for better or worse, like it or not. You know, it's actually me doing a lot of the lifting on this one. And so the songwriting, it runs on this one from songs that are like the Rich Mullins song that I had mentioned, that we get to be the first ones to ever release that, which is a really cool thing because I just so love Rich Mullins' music. But then there's also hymns that have been special to me that I've done A couple on there with new arrangements and new music that had never been done. And then there's a lot of just songs that I've written that are sometimes from some very personal places and from some very deep wounds, but also some sort of modern hymns that I've written. There's a song about the Trinity that I'm really excited about because I don't think we have very many worship songs that focus on the Trinity. And so this has been a project where I got to do what I wanted. It's been a very long journey.. And I'm praying and hoping that it will all pay off. And I mean that literally because it's just so far at this point and so much trusting in God to provide financially. But it's been a good journey and I've just seen, even though it's been a hard journey, I've seen a lot of doors open up along the way. And this time we're pressing it to vinyl and on CD both. And this is an album that I've always wanted to have one that I could hear on vinyl. There's something about the sound of it and the way that you can just hear like the cleanness of it. And a lot of this album has a real feel almost like a throwback album at different points. It's kind of a mix between kind of modern pop and old-school indie rock, and some of it's almost like country and soul type stuff. So it's a very varied instrumental album, and we called it Thunder. And that's what it's called. So I don't know what else to tell you about it, but I'm really excited about it.

So, uh, you know, I have a copy of Thunder already, uh, and I know it doesn't come out until February, but am I allowed to talk about any of the tracks right now, or do— should we not talk about any of the track names?

Oh sure, no, that's fine. Please.

What I wanted to mention is, uh, I was listening, uh, to it in the car with my wife recently as, uh, we were driving, and, um, a passage that's always been special to her is, uh, Psalm 73 where it says, "Whom have I in heaven but you?" And so just want to tell you that was, that was a favorite of hers. So yeah, just thank you very much.

Yeah, man. And you know what, that's kind of a special one too because I had that one on Basement Psalms Live, um, but it was just me and an acoustic guitar, and I've always wanted to do that with a full band. And so I'm so glad to hear that, um, because that's, that's been a special psalm to me as well, and I'm so glad that that was speaking to her.

So like I said, it's coming out. The album's coming out, released on February 8th, 2019. What do the listeners have to know? I think, I mean, it's, it's good to talk about because they've been along for this journey with you hearing about the process for a while now. So tell us what we need to know about it.

Well, first off, you can preorder it right now and, and get a download of the whole album if you just go to my website, rickleejames.com. All the information is on there. And I think right now there's a special, like you can get the vinyl and the CD plus that digital download for like $29, which is, I think, awesome because vinyls cost a lot. But I'm working with a distributor on that this time, so they're doing a great job getting it all ready. So whenever the orders actually hit on February 8th, that you'll be able to get that in the mail. And so pre-orders are happening right now, and I was just I would just encourage people to preorder that if they're going to do it because that really helps us to kind of know, you know, as I talked about before, it's a very costly endeavor and it helps us to make some of the money back on this end. I say us, I mean like me and my wife. It's not like we're a huge corporation or anything and we've been doing a lot of this on faith. But I think that's a great way for people to hear the album. I got a new turntable for Christmas and I I have the test pressings of the album in my house right now. And I was listening to it on the record through some really good speakers. And it's like you lose so much when you're just listening on a phone or something like that. It's just so much you're not hearing that we put into the album. So that's the first thing I wanted to tell people about. You can go on and preorder it. And then download the whole album and hear it digitally right now. But the other thing is on January 9th, which is a Wednesday, For some reason they say Wednesday afternoons at 3 o'clock PM Eastern Time is one of the best times to get people's attention. I don't know why, but people who know these things know this. And so on Wednesday afternoon, January 9th, just a few days from now really, I think it's maybe, was it 10 days from now or 9 days? We're gonna have the world premiere video on YouTube of the song "Thunder," which is that Rich Mullins song that was never before published. And I'm really excited about the music video and how it turned out. So you can tune in, and it's going to be sort of an online watch party because you can go to like my YouTube page right now and click on the video and set a reminder so that it will send you an alert whenever it's time and saying, "Hey, the video premiere is happening." I just hope a lot of people will be a part of that and will watch it. I just think that would be a fun time. Maybe if they are at work, they can just step away for a minute and grab their phone and look at it and watch the video. It turned out really, really beautifully. I am excited. We have got sheet music for every song ready to go on this album, so if congregations want to use it, they can. There are 13 tracks, and some of them are readings, some of them are I mean, the rest of them are songs, but some of them are readings that go along with it. But it has a really intentional feel to it throughout the album. It starts one way and it ends another. And I'm just really excited about it. I don't know what else to tell people. Just go to rickleejames.com.

Yeah, everybody go check it out. Is it the— let's see, is there an official— so just go to rickleejames.com and that will bring them right to the place where they can go to preorder?

Yeah, they've got— yeah, right on that main page you'll be able to find it. If they want just a little bit more in-depth, they can go to rickleejames.com/thunder, and that's like a dedicated page to the album. But pretty much anywhere on rickleejames.com. What people can also do right on that main page is if they listen to Spotify, they can, you know, I'd prefer they buy it, but if they want to, you can go and pre-save it to Spotify and there's a link on the website where you can just click on there to pre-save it and you'll be able to, you'll be notified I believe as soon as it releases on February 8th. So, yeah, that's another way to do it.

I feel like I have a bunch of questions for you but I know we're coming close to the end but do you mind if I ask you just briefly about the music video process? I know this isn't your first one but what's that like? Is it, do you have a lot of say in what the final product looks like or do they have somebody come in and kind of guide you through that process? What's it like to make a music video?

No, I am completely independent, so everything kind of rises and falls with me. So if it looks really great, um, I'm very grateful. If it looks terrible, I don't have anybody to blame but me, unfortunately. Um, I have been very fortunate. Um, one thing about the last album I did, I, I decided, you know what, people I think pay a lot more attention if there's a really good quality music video. And so I just feel like God led me to Jason Elam, who runs this company called Agape Media in Dayton, Ohio. And Jason is a really great— I guess I'm going to call him a cinematographer because he takes great care in the things that he shoots. And he does a lot of local advertising and things like that, but he really cares about music and is a he's a really good musician himself. We kind of hit it off and I talked to him about working with him way back whenever I was doing the Advent hymn video a couple years ago. I just got so many comments about the look of it. What we do is basically we find a location. A lot of times he scouts it out. This new one I scouted it out. It's at a really beautiful church where we filmed this new one called Covenant Presbyterian Church here in Springfield, Ohio. It's so gorgeous, you can— I almost can't believe it's something that's in our city here in Springfield. It's amazing. You go inside and it's just breathtaking. And it really fits well with the scenery. But we go in and I kind of just, you know, lip sync to the song. I play along to it and I sing. Then we do it again and again and again and again. And you film it at different angles and different locations and different walkthroughs. So he takes all the cuts that you have together and record the whole thing with a click track so he can match everything up on the video. It's a really pretty involved process, but so far every video I've done with Jason has just been, I mean, visually just something you want to see. I feel like my eyes, it's a treat for the eyes, I guess I would say. And I can't say that that is me, it's just I work with good people, you know. Matter of fact, I would say most of the time if you're looking at me, it's not a treat for the eyes. But the video itself, just the way it's filmed, he just does such a great job. So I want to brag on Agape Media and Jason Elam because it's fun shooting music videos and not quite as much pressure as being in the actual recording studio for me where every flaw is picked up. You know, you can kind of lip sync along with what you've already recorded when you're making a video. But hopefully it doesn't look like I'm lip-syncing because he does a really good job of matching it all up together.

Yeah, but no, that's fun. All right, well, let's bring it back around. Here we are, episode 300. Last question of the night, uh, I, I— a lot of great things have happened to you over the last few years as you've been doing this podcast. Are there things that you can say specifically doing this podcast brought this good thing? And ultimately, we know God's bringing you the good thing, but God used the podcast to, uh, to bring this into your life. Because so, yeah, what are some things you can point to that say, I've been blessed because of this process?

Uh, yeah, so many things. Like, one day I was actually talking to my wife about this, and I said, you know what, if it hadn't been for the podcast, I'd I wouldn't have become friends with people like Andrew Peterson and people that have been really amazing influences on my life creatively. People who I've found to be such inspiration and then people that now I can go like, "Wow, I'm this person's friend," or I have their cell phone number. Things like that, which is really cool to be able to make connections in that way. But I would say probably I I don't think without the podcast I would have probably gotten published through LifeWay Worship because the connections that I made with LifeWay in many ways opened up doors there. And that led to making that album, Hymns, Prayers and Invitations. I don't think I probably would have been invited to some of the really cool venues that I've been able to play at over the years. There have been times that a lot of church bookings have come because maybe pastors have listened to the podcast and they've thought, well, maybe I'll try to have him, you know, come in. So it's all, it's all worked in so many ways together. I think even publishing my book Out of the Depths was kind of a labor of love that came through the podcast and meeting Ben as a result of the podcast. And Ben ended up being editor on that book, you know, when I was making it.

That's right, Ben DeBono, editor of Out of the Depths.

Yeah, yeah, so it's, it's been great, and I've made a lot of really good friends over the years. And again, people that I haven't always met face to face, but people who have, you know, become good friends online and will message each other and talk about things. And for me, the relationships are the most important part of this. And so yeah, I would say a lot of things in my life I've learned I've learned a lot about being a creative person, and I've learned a lot more about discipleship, and I've learned a lot about just the creative process, and I've learned a lot about podcasting itself and kind of what goes into it. And so I can attribute a lot to this podcast for sure. I'm very grateful that God inspired me to start this up and has been hopefully leading Hopefully I've allowed him to lead as much as possible on the journey, for sure.

Yeah, it's really awesome. It almost sounds like we're— the way we're talking about it, it's as if the podcast is ending, but that's not true. It's going on for many years to come. And do you want to give us some teases as what's coming up in the early parts of 2019?

Well, yeah, I— you know what, I hope it'll go on for years to come. I've been really making a point point of trying to get a new one out every Wednesday, and that's been a tough thing.

Do you do the Wednesday at 3 PM Eastern?

Uh, you know what, usually I do it like at 5 AM just so it'll be there in the morning for people.

I might start listening.

I'm gonna steal that idea.

Oh yeah, people are gonna see the Sci-Fi Christian at 3 PM on Wednesdays.

So on Wednesday, 3 PM Eastern, that's right. So it's, it's not a bad idea, you know, try to set things up like that. I don't know why, but And maybe that's just for me where I am. It works out well. But I do try to do it every Wednesday. I thought of maybe after we got to episode 300 of taking a few weeks hiatus just because it's been a lot of pressure and a lot of things going on. But I don't think I'm going to because we've got Brian Zahn coming back on the show again. It looks like we're going to have Michael Card on again. I just— we're trying to work out some details. It's hard to get around everybody's schedule. We've got Thomas J. Ord, I think, will be the following episode. And I'm always looking for new guests. I don't know from one time to another, but often I'm at a place where I've been blessed to make some connections over the years. A lot of times when new artists have albums come out, they want to come on the show and talk about it. So I never know from week to week, like, who will be releasing. So just kind of be watching the show because a lot of times we'll have some really good guest musicians and authors and different people who— sometimes we've had filmmakers on here more recently, and that's been fun. So I don't even know who to tell you that's coming on down the road because sometimes they surprise me and will reach out and ask ask if they can come on. So, and I'm always open to that for sure.

And I'm just— I was just thinking, I'm preparing to send you a book, and maybe I like this book, maybe you could get the author. I won't— I don't know if I should tease it too early ahead, but yeah, once you read it, maybe you could get the author on and talk through some things too. So yeah, I mean, the possibilities are endless for 2019.

As long as they aren't dead, I will try to reach out to them. And that is— that's been my thing as of late. I've been reading a lot of dead authors and I think, "Man, I'd love to have these people on," but it's pretty much impossible now. But yeah, I'd love to do that. That book you're going to send me, you told me about, more to come, guests, because it sounds like a really great book and hopefully we can feature the author on the show. Good.

Well, Rick, thanks for letting me be on here and do this interview to really talk about you and the show. We've been friends for a while here, and so I've been a long-time listener, so just as a thank you as a listener. Thank you for all the hard work you put into the show.

Well, thank you, Matt, and it's been a real pleasure. And I want to thank everybody who has listened and has given me a reason to continue doing this for 300 episodes and beyond. And I hope we can keep doing it, and I'll keep doing it as long as people are listening, and maybe even when people aren't. I don't know. It's a fun outlet for me to be able to do this.. But it seems like we're getting new listeners all the time, and I just want to thank everybody. And thank you, Matt, for coming on the show numerous times and always being such an encouragement in all that you do. And for everybody who has contributed over the years, whether it has been guests who have come on the show or listeners who have just been so faithful to be here and write letters, and from time to time send financial help occasionally. I'm just grateful to all of you, and I'm grateful to our God who, who gives me something inspiring to talk about. And I'm so grateful for it and the fellowship that we share. So, so, Matt, thank you for, I guess, uh, hosting Voices in My Head this week.

That's right. I, I love being one of the voices in your head.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my visit my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews the The more reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.