Voices In My Head Podcast Episode #305: Remembering Rich Mullins - Guest Beth Snell Lutz Shares Memo

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes. Or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I am very glad that you are here with me this week. This is going to be a fun episode, especially for those of you who are fans of Rich Mullins. I have a very special guest on the show who actually called in her answers, and I want to preface it by telling you that we need to really lift up prayers for this special lady. Her name is Beth Snell Lutz, and she was a bandmate and friend, a very dear friend actually, of the late Rich Mullins. And she provided some wonderful information for me for the Voices in My Head podcast about Rich Mullins and about the song Thunder, which I am releasing on my new album, which comes out February 8th. You can probably tell from my voice I'm still a little bit hoarse. I've been sick, and I appreciate your prayers too because I'm getting ready to start a big long tour, really beginning in Kansas City here in this next week. My voice is coming back, but all that is to say we have a special episode today. It revolves around Rich Mullins. It revolves around some wonderful stories that Beth was kind enough to share, and I'm going to let Beth do most of the talking today as she was gracious enough to send in the answers. I'm gonna tell you some more about that in just a few moments, but I wanna catch you up on a couple of things and give you some of my background to help you understand how this song by Rich Mullins, "Thunder," came to me and why I was able to record it. I also wanna let you know before I do that, that I'm not sure if there's going to be an episode next week. I have tried very hard to every Wednesday get an episode out, but with my travel schedule coming up, with the sickness I've had and with many things kind of being up in the air, I'm just not sure if I'm going to be able to release one next week. I'm going to try to do it from the convention center where I'm playing in Kansas City next week for the M19 missions conference for the Church of the Nazarene. If I'm not able to work that out, I just wanted to let you know my plan is to be back the following week if I'm not able to put up an episode. And we're still going to have some wonderful guests in the future, but it has been a crazy hectic time for me. It's been good, but it's been really difficult just with all the stuff getting ready for an album release, and I can get into more of that at another time. But I think that's all I needed to catch you up on right now. The new album, Thunder, it comes out February 8th. You can get it everywhere. I encourage you to get it on CD or vinyl, and then you can listen through Spotify or Apple or wherever you stream music from, but it always helps out if you could support the artist. The best way to support an artist is to buy their music, and That's always going to be the case. And if you can come to one of our concerts, that would be wonderful too. We always love it. Speaking of concerts, on February 22nd, Brothers McClurg will be joining me in Springfield, Ohio at the John Legend Theater, and we are going to have a great evening playing through the Songs of Thunder live together. It was great recording the project with them at their studio at Old Bear Studio in New York, and I think you're gonna find that it's a wonderful evening. You can go to my website at Rick Lee James RickLeeJames.com to find out more information about how you can get tickets. I am not selling them. They are only being sold through the John Legend Theater box office. They're $15 a ticket. That's a great evening of music. That's a great price for what you're gonna get for the evening. We're also giving away t-shirts and vinyls and CDs, so you want to hang on to your ticket when you get there so that if we call your number, your name, you can get the prize. But it's gonna be a great night. If you've never heard Brothers McClure live, you are in for a real treat. They're gonna be open opening the show, and then I'm going to be joining them, and we're going to be playing through songs from my new album, Thunder, and it's going to be a wonderful time. So go to rickleejames.com for that information. All right, well, here we go. I, I want to tell you a bit about how I met and what she means to me, and I just think she's a special lady, and I'm so glad that she was able to take some time to record her answers. The reason that we are doing it this way this week, where she has actually phoned in her answers and I'm going to be playing things that have been pre-recorded, is because Beth has not been well. She's been battling cancer for some time. And I say that as a prayer request because I want all of you who are listening, especially those of you who really believe in prayer, to please keep her on your prayer list. I've added her to my daily prayer list. If you don't have a daily prayer list, I encourage you to do that. Jot down some names and go to it every time. For me, it's in the morning when I come and start praying for people. But I have appreciated her so much. About a year ago, I released a podcast just making the announcement that I had been asked to record this never-before-released song, Thunder, by Rich Mullins. And by the way, I'm going to play the original version for you in just a few minutes by Zion, Rich's band. And let you hear the two songs side by side. But I had made this announcement, and what an honor it was for me to be able to record this song and to be asked. Randy Cox, who was Rich's original publisher in Nashville back in the '80s, he had some of the songs that were never released in his care, and he had been tasked to find some artists to record them. And so on the 20th anniversary of Rich's death, they released the song "The Joy of Jesus," and he was able to get Matt Maher and Ellie Holcomb and Mac Powell from Third Day to do sort of a trio on that. It's a beautiful song, "Let the Joy of Jesus Be with You." If you haven't heard it, you should look it up online. It's a really cool song. So that was the first of these never-before-released Rich Mullins songs to come out. It was a cool way to commemorate and sort of remember the anniversary of Rich's death and celebrate his life and his work. And it's a beautiful song, so look up "The Joy of Jesus." Well, "Thunder" here is the one that I have been tasked to record. I didn't know that there was another version. I was actually sent a version of the song, a very, very rough demo originally, of what sounded like just Rich singing at the very beginning of the demo with a guitar.. And it was a song called Thunder. And then I heard the professional demo right after it, which is much more close to the form of what Thunder is that I recorded. And I thought, wow, this is an amazing song. I can't believe we never got to hear this song from Rich Mullins. So I made that announcement on the podcast, posted some links online, and I got a message from Beth Snell Lutz, who again was a very close friend of Rich Mullins. And she said, in essence, She said, "Well, since, you know, I'm so excited for you, I'm so glad you love Rich Mullins music so much, I think you should know though that there's more behind this song. There's more to this story. And there actually was a much different song originally that you've never heard. And I'd love for you to hear this original version." And I was really excited to get to hear the original version. And with her permission, I'm actually playing that today on the podcast. So you can hear the original Zion version. My understanding is that Beth recorded well over 100 songs, went out and bought a tape recorder, but I'm gonna let her tell you about that in her own words later on the show, and recorded so many songs that we never got to hear by Rich Mullins before. Well, the version that I have of Thunder is a version— and the one I recorded is actually a version that after Rich had passed away, as I understand it, Lowell Alexander, who was a good friend and co-writer of Rich, started the process of sort of rewriting the song a bit. And Phil Nash, who is one of the great producers of our times, a multi-award-winning producer, he also was a co-writer on the new version of Thunder. So the two of them came up with a new version that really was the prime— I would say to me, the best parts of all of Rich's original songs put into a much more concise song, which is the version that I have. But I feel like everybody should have the chance to hear both versions of the song. I don't want to say that my version is better because it's not, and I would never claim that it was. I am such a fan of Rich Mullins, and I didn't even realize there were two versions of the song going around. I'm grateful to be entrusted with the version that I have. I love Rich Mullins, and I'm so glad to be just a very small part of his legacy. But I want you to know I don't think it's superior in any way to anything that Rich originally put out. As a matter of fact, this is almost a, as I said, sort of the best of what Rich had written originally, kind of condensed down into a little bit more radio-ready version of the song. So what I'm going to do right now, hopefully that answers some of the questions behind where this song came from. I was asked to record this and I was thrilled. Randy Cox, who was Rich's publisher, has been a good friend and a co-writer. We even wrote a song called Be My All that's on my new album, Thunder, and I can't wait for you to hear that as well. That also has a lot of special meaning to me. But for today, let's go right now to the original version of Thunder that we have. It's not Rich singing, but it's his band, and you get to hear the full version of what Thunder sounded like in its original form. And then after, I'm gonna let you hear Beth Snell Lutes, and some of the answers, the wonderful answers that she gave us to some questions I had asked her to kind of get at the heart of who Rich was and the Rich Mullins that she knew and kind of what she thinks about the new versions of some of the songs that are about to be released, one of which is the version I'm releasing. And then we'll close the podcast today and I will play you my version of Thunder. That's sort of something I've put sort of my stamp on something that was given to me. And it's a little different than the original demo even that I had, but I tried my best to be as true to it as I could. So without any further hesitation, here is Beth Snell Lutz answering some questions that I asked her for the Voices in My Head podcast. Thank you so much for listening and for being here. And thank you for buying the album when it comes out on February 8th. By the way, new music video coming out February 7th. Not of this song, but of a different one. So tune in. I'll let you know. Okay, here we go. Here's Beth Snell Lutz on Voices in My Head.

Prophetess grown tired of being so inspired and never being heard. Coming on to a world confused and shattered, you gave this earth back her sense of her own worth. You sang to her and you comforted her people. You brought down the sweetest sound she's ever heard. They walked with you when you dwelt among the humble. I wish I could have been there to bear. You were born just a baby in a manger. No more decay, no famine, just a song up in the sky. The shepherds flocked around it just to see you, and you set them all free too. You gave them all sight. You spoke so true, you sat upon the teachers, and they murmured so They could not believe their eyes. Then somehow they thought they wanted to ignore you, but what they heard could not be denied. You sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple. You sounded like thunder sometimes when you prayed. When you wept, your voice was gentle as the music on a dove's wings when she flies away.

When she flies away.

Looking out, your eyes filled with compassion, you called for Adam hiding in his cave. Sitting down on a mountain, he spoke gently, "And even when we looked for ways to have you killed, you loved us, Lord. How did we ever miss it? You were so clearly God, but also very If we could read the very sky in the evening, how is it that we couldn't even tell it was going to rain? It sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple off the floor. It sounded like thunder sometimes when you prayed. And even when we looked for ways to have you killed, you loved us, Lord. How did we ever miss it?

You were so clearly God, it was all so very plain.

We could read the red sky in the evening. How is it that we You couldn't even tell it was going to rain. You sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple. You sounded like thunder sometimes when you prayed. And when you wept, your voice was gentle as the music of the dove.

Sweet.

When she flies away.

When she flies away.

Your first question is, when did I first meet Richard? I met Richard in the fall of 1975 when I moved to Cincinnati to attend the Bible college there. I was 2 weeks early, and I was walking across the campus and heard piano coming from an old gray building near my dorm. The window was open, so I sat on the porch and listened, and he noticed that I was sitting there and I went in and spent the next many years either on the floor or next to him on the bench as his songs began changing my understanding of God. Number 2: What stood out about him? So many things made him unlike anyone I'd ever known before. He was a great listener. Until he went on a rant or had discovered a new book, movie, play, or album, and then you just had to let him go until he was done, which could be hours. He was quiet until he wasn't, and then he was the life of the party. He was a loner until he felt lonely, and then he, he was a gatherer. He would be grabbing people together to do, well, everything. He's— he seldom went home to his folks' house alone. But he would usually have a car full of friends or kids from his youth group, and his mom always fed all of us, no question. She made the greatest vegetable soup. If he liked a movie, everyone had to go. Had to go was not an option. So we'd end up with 20 people going to see whatever movie he was into: Harold and Maude, Holy Grail, Star Wars. It's endless. He'd fall sound asleep in class and the professor would call on him just to wake him up. And somehow, I don't know how, but he would know the correct answer to the question. When we lived in community, he would pick up hitchhikers and bring them to our house, and we'd wake up to complete strangers sleeping on the couch in the living room, and Richard was nowhere in sight. I mean, we could have all been slaughtered in the house and he wouldn't have— he— it's just the way he was. There were times when I'd hear the piano late at night go downstairs and find him sound asleep, but his hands would be playing all over the keyboard. He loved laughing, deep thoughtful conversations, mindless fun, an intensely passionate argument. He could be thoughtless and thoughtful all at the same time, which was infuriating. He would gather people together, then grab one person and go for a long walk was quite often change their life forever. He longed to be normal, and he wasn't. He loved deeply, though not always well. He was dear, and I loved him. I believe this is number 3. Tell us about the songs you recorded and what you're doing with them now. Shortly after meeting Richard that day in 1975, I I realized I needed to be able to hear these songs more than every now and then. And so I used my very first paycheck and I bought a small tape recorder that would fit into my purse and then became a joke among my friends because I always had it out. And I did have it out all the time for years. And then, you know, 20 years later, 2 weeks before he died, I found a large box in my barn full of 20-year-old tapes and I had just begun listening through them when I got the call early that Saturday morning. After the funeral tour, which is what it became to many of us, I felt pretty much a sacred burden to make sure the songs that he'd written in the early years were protected, were copyrighted, somehow made available to be heard are recorded by others who might be interested. I began the eternal work of listening through all the tapes, at least the ones that would still play, and was mainly looking for recordings of all the different songs that I remembered from those years. I ended up with about 120 that had never been published, and some of the, the ones from the early years, of course, he had pulled out through the years and recorded, like Elijah and You Gotta Get Up and Heaven in His Eyes and In America. I mean, there were a whole lot of them. He would almost always put one from the '70s on every one of his albums, but he would just act like he had just written it. So if I didn't have these early recordings, you wouldn't get to hear the original versions of those songs, which is really awesome that I still have them. In the years As the years went by, I had been blessed to meet many of his Nashville friends. He always liked to share friends with one another, which was a sweet thing that he always did. But, um, a very dear Lori Loving of the Loving Company in Nashville, she administrates music for a living, a hard-earned living, and she helped me with the administration and paperwork to create the copyright Rich Mullins songs, and we were able to get them all at least taken care of so that nobody could, you know, steal them as their own, which was my concern because the lyrics as much as the piano were amazing for so many of them. Anyway, shortly after that, I began uploading them to YouTube, created a channel called the Rich Mullins— or called Rich Mullins Early Music, and but most all of them there. Since I first met him, I committed to God to do whatever I could to get his songs out to the wounded and broken people who might benefit from them, and I've done what I've known to do to do it. Tell us about Thunder. Richard always wrote about Jesus in stories, especially in the early years. Thunder was a song that he had written that he was so excited about. He loved this song, and we did it in nearly every concert through the Zion years. In those concerts, he would always have us do the song Dirt right before Thunder, as it was also an acoustic guitar song full of vignettes of the life of Jesus. The lyrics to Thunder were always Powerful, I thought, because they created images that I could see. I could imagine Jesus walking in when the prophets had grown tired of being so inspired and never being heard. I could see his anger and hear the thunder when he cleared the temple. I often think of this song as a follow-up to Heaven in His Eyes, which he had written the year before. All of them stories written to help me, to help anybody listening see Jesus walking among us. He did that much later in the song Boy Like Me as well. It did the same thing. It made him accessible, and that's what Richard loved to do. What is a favorite memory of Rich? Wow, there are so many. I think it's like a kaleidoscope I look through when I remember him. From him falling out of his chair in class sound asleep, to baptizing the youth group kids in the river, to long walks around Price Hill with him quoting the entire book of Isaiah, to laughing so hard he'd end up in a coughing fit, to sitting on the floor by any number of pianos as minor key chords and Lyrics were wrapped together to create heart-changing songs, to walks on the beach. I'm fortunate to have known and loved him. How would I explain him to a millennial? I don't think I would try. I think I would just ask them to listen to the Liturgy album. Well, and maybe some of the early songs too.

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the benches of those selling doves. "It is written," he said to them, "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers." The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them.

but rarely being heard. Coming on to a world confused and scattered, the silence was shattered by the power of the Word. It sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple. It sounded like thunder sometimes when you prayed. Incredible wonder when the veil was torn in glory. And all the things you said, like a storm that rose above the quiet. The sound of your love was enough to raise the dead. It sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple. It sounded like thunder sometimes when you prayed. Incredible wonder when the veil was torn in glory. It sounded like thunder when the stones rolled away. When I think about you giving and loving and crying and suffering our pain. And when I think about you living and dying and rising.

My tears fall like rain.

It sounded like thunder when you cleared the temple. It sounded like thunder sometimes when you parade.

Incredible wonder when the veil was torn in glory.

It sounded like thunder when the storms rolled away.

Yeah, when the storms rolled away.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.