Voices In My Head Podcast Episode 323: Keith Getty and Sing! 2019

This is Rick Lee James, and the music you are hearing is from my new album, Thunder. The title track, Thunder, is a never-before-released song by the late Rich Mullins. There are also 12 other tracks made up of original music, hymns, and readings to guide the listener on a journey. You can buy Thunder today on clear vinyl and CD, or stream it on Spotify, Apple Music, and almost every other music streaming service. Thunder, hear it today at rickleejames.com. This episode of Voices in My Head is brought to you by Podbean. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile ready right from the start. Visit podbean.com/voices to find out more. That's podbean.com/voices. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames. RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head. Welcome back to Voices in My Head, everybody. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm really excited about this episode today because one of my songwriting heroes, somebody who I've had a few conversations with over the years but not on the podcast, is with me today. It's Keith Getty. I wanted to re-record my intro because I was actually talking to him on a phone call when we recorded this, and he's in Belfast and I'm here in Ohio, and I just didn't feel very good about the intro. I was messing up some words, so I wanted to just go ahead and kind of give you this quick intro before we get going. But Keith is one of the great hymn writers of our day, and it's, it's really a special thing to be able to have him on the show. He and I both share a love of St. Patrick, and a few years ago he recorded a demo of my song Christ is Lord, Christ Before Me, and it was such a boost in the arm to know that that he thought it was a worthy song. And even though they ultimately didn't record it, I've just been riding high on that for years because I respect him as such an incredible hymn writer. And so it's a real privilege to finally have him on the Voices in My Head podcast so that we could talk about his upcoming conference called SING, which is going to be happening in Nashville, Tennessee on August 19th. It's 19th through 21st, actually. This is going to be a really great conference. I hope you can join us there. I am so looking forward to being there, not only as an artist and to be able to advertise my new album, Thunder, in the main sessions, but also to be able to record some podcasts for Voices in My Head live on location. And I'm gonna try to get as many artist interviews as I can. More than anything, though, I'm excited about the movement that is Singing. It really is much more than just a conference. I really think God is doing something powerful with the conference, and I want as many pastors and worship pastors and even laymen who are interested in getting the church singing to come and be a part of the show. So here's the intro that I was going to give, that I tried to give, but I messed it up on our conversation, and then we're going to go right into my talk with Keith Getty. My guest this week on Voices in My Head is Keith Getty. Keith and his wife Kristin Getty occupy a unique space in the world of music today as preeminent modern hymn writers. In reinventing the traditional hymn form, they have created a catalog of songs teaching Christian doctrine and crossing the genres of traditional, classical, folk, and contemporary composition which are sung the world over. 'In Christ Alone,' penned by Keith and Stuart Townend, it holds the number 1 position of most frequently sung hymn in UK churches for the past 9 consecutive years. The Gettys hymns are used both in contemporary and traditional circles, being included in most modern hymn books, while in the more contemporary church, more than 60 of their songs are featured on top 2000 CCLI charts between the UK and the USA. And the Gettys also created SING! Concerts, events, and conferences which exist to inspire deep theology, timeless artistry, and vibrant singing for the whole family of God in cities across the world. And now I present to you my conversation with Keith Getty. Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Keith Getty, welcome to the Voices in My Head podcast.

It's an honor to be on the show. Thank you so much indeed.

Well, I am such a big fan of your writing and have been listening and leading the music that you've made for years, so it's a real honor to have you here today. And I don't want to waste any time. I want to go right in and talk about the Sing Worship Conference that's happening in Nashville, August 19th through 21st. First question for you: who is this conference for?

This conference is for worship leaders and for pastors and for musicians of every description.

And it is— there's actually so many people lined up. There's 30 speakers, there's 7 plenary sessions, there's 50 breakout sessions. How in the world do you bring together so many people for such an event like this?

Well, we've got a wonderful team. I'm not a particularly well-organized guy. I do my best to, you know, connect with people, you know, connect with key relationships. And, you know, I, I, most of the, almost all the people that come to our conference are people who I love being with. So, so, so I connect with them and give them the vision, but all the intelligent organization is done by other people.

Well, and I know that one of your main goals, which I so appreciate, is that you want congregations to be known for their singing and not just for their music., and I think that's an admirable goal. How is this conference going about trying to help other churches make that their goal, that they would be known more by their singing than just their music?

Well, I think all of life is in the questions that we ask, isn't it? And so when we think of what is the music like in our church, really the core of that is what's our congregation singing like? It's not, it's not What is the band like? What's the style of music like? What's the worship leader like? Or what style of songs do we go for? It's actually, how do the congregations sing? So I think it was trying to get churches back to that. I got so frustrated with the trends in modern worship that I wanted people to ask the question, the core question, what, how do my congregations sing? And then after that, what do they sing? Because the Bible is not ambivalent to what we sing, the Bible actually is God cares very deeply about what we sing and what we don't sing. So it's not as far from just being our kind of honest emotionalism, or what we think is honest emotionalism, or perceived to be, but it's actually very important what we sing. And so I wanted to start this conference about why we sing, and what we sing, and what happens when we sing, and really help and inspire and teach churches to do their congregational worship better.

Well, some of the breakouts are really amazing, and I just wanted to highlight a few of them for our listeners today who may be interested in joining this conference. There's things like the church choir at Christmas and Easter. There's things about the piano and worship. There's a session with John Piper, Ask Pastor John. There's technology panels. There's panels on working with bands. There's panels on resurrection letters with Andrew Peterson. Panels with artists like Shane and Shane and Sandra McCracken and just all kinds of different people in so many different fields that you're bringing together. And I'm commenting on how many amazing, very Spirit-filled people that you have coming that are so knowledgeable in their field. And but one thing that I'm really especially interested in, which, which I think is actually unique that the Gettys offer, there seems to be a real emphasis and importance on families. And I'd love to just hear from you a little bit what connection that you find there is with families and our singing in worship.

Well, you know, it's a very personal thing to me because I got 4 kids, but it's actually very important at the core of our Christianity. You know, when the evangelical Protestant movement began, Christianity was brought to America. Let me go there. Let's scrap the previous bit. Christianity came to America um, back through, through the New England Puritans. And, uh, they were known— some of them were known for actually not letting men take communion in church on Sunday if they weren't praying and singing with their families. And some people think that's very harsh and very judgmental, but actually I don't think any worship leader in America or anywhere else has any right to be on a stage on a Sunday if they're not actually singing with their own kids first. They're not actually taking care of the worship of their own home. And I think, I think the gap in both organized worship in people's home, through to just the casual songs that are being sung on the iPods of Christians' homes, through to the excitement of Sunday worship in people's homes being the highlight of their week rather than just a passing thing that they do if there's no big ball game on. You know, all of these things are vitally important. If we want to see this next generation, you know, grow up to be strong believers with strong families, with strong links to local church, and with strong impacts in their communities. So that's the— so the children's thing is very important. I mean, from the simplest point of view, Rick, you're a worship leader in a church. You know the families that actually listen to hymns and worship music in their homes, and they sing in their homes. They're all singing on a Sunday. I mean, you don't have to teach them to sing, you know? So I think all this kind of hyping up our services isn't anywhere near as important as making sure all the families in the church are singing. You know, I remember in our first years of being parents, and Krista and I are both such emotional people, and we were struggling with parenting, and John MacArthur, you know, who's seen as a very conservative, some people perceive him as a cerebral, thinker, you know, said to me, "So much of parenting is about the songs you fill your home with." You know, this is not an optional thing for parents who like singing. This is extraordinarily important.

Wow, those are some really great thoughts for us, and they're challenging thoughts. And speaking of challenging people, I think in some ways what you're doing— and we were talking just before the show briefly about sort of our mutual admiration of someone like St. Patrick, who actually is known in the world probably more for his hymn writing than for anything else, as powerful as his story is and the missionary journeys that he took. But I think I see what is happening in something like the SING conference, or I think it's much more than a conference. I think I'm seeing it as a movement that's beginning, uh, with people that care about spreading the word of Jesus throughout the world and throughout the lands. Um, really almost in this spirit of, of really, I think, what someone like maybe Patrick did as they were going on. And I, I'd love to ask you, kind of in that spirit, as we're thinking about the songs that we sing and the songs that we're writing, what are some of the criteria that, that you're going after when you're writing a song for a congregation, or even when you're looking for a song to lead to a congregation that starts singing?

Well, thank you, Patrick. Thank you, thank you for your, your kindness and for the, for the good question. I think what the Bible says, just when we meet together, the Bible commands us to sing many, many times. The New Testament commands us to get together, sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. But it's not obsessing with those styles. What it's saying, it's giving us certain commands. It says, number one, it says let the word of Christ dwell in us richly. You know, so if you take that and then you marry that with the modeling in the Psalms, the Book of Psalms, or how the Psalms are written, what we see is these— the— is a very deep, rich, and involved understanding of the God of the Bible. In other words, authentic worship begins with God. Authentic worship is not— is not— you don't say the worship in church was authentic. Because I felt emotionally moved. Frankly, that's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you're not a particularly emotional person, or you're dealing with, you know, an illness diagnosis, or one of your kids is in hospital. You're not going to feel moved anyway, you know what I mean? Yeah, chances are. So authentic worship begins with an authentic picture of God, a big picture of God. John Piper described it as, you know, as, as I am You know, and, uh, you know, so it begins, it begins with God. And if our view of God is not infinitesimally bigger and deeper than our view of every other part of life, then we've got a pretty— then we, then we're starting from the wrong position. We're looking through the wrong lens. We're looking up a telescope the wrong way. So, so we, when we think about the songs we sing, let's make sure that they were, that that the God of it— I mean, just take the Psalms, for example. Make sure the God that we sing to is one of immense, infinite glory, that he is one who is majestic, who is our judge, who created the world, who is omnipresent, who is far beyond our imagining, but also is a God of compassion and of love and of peace, who is longing for— to forgive, who is rich in love, who delights in our praises. Jeremy, so let's make sure the God of the Bible that we sing is— has all these extraordinary facets that the Psalms sing about, even the things that we don't like. Because he is a God of wrath. He is a God who hates evil. He is a God who punishes evildoers. He is a God who cannot stand the wicked. He is a God who is angry. And we— and so if we're not singing about these things, we're singing about a God who represents a therapeutic teddy bear. And the problem is there's lots of therapeutic teddy bears out there. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So let's make sure, let's make sure that we're— and let's make sure we sing about, you know, we tell of his— as the Psalms, we tell of his wondrous acts. You know, our song, our song is God's blood, is Christ's blood and righteousness. That's our only song in life. When I think about how I've treated people and how I've lived, and I think of the things I've even thought today since I woke up This morning, I have nothing to boast about. I have no right to be moved in worship. I have one song, it's Christ's blood and righteousness. So let's make sure our songs are filled with the greatness of God, they're filled with the gospel. And then the scriptures also says, when he says sing with thankfulness, each time he says sing in these, he says sing with thankfulness. So let's approach our services with absolute gratitude. Let's, if you're a worship leader, let's make sure before they start to sing that whether you just like read a few verses together, that you're reminding people of the greatness of God, who God is, what he has done, that we are thankful before we start, because our hearts should be filled with thankfulness. And indeed, thankfulness, thankfulness— if you're feeling a little bit proud, thankfulness soon, soon moves it to gratitude. And if we're feeling a little bit like a victim or a little bit angry thankfulness of what God does soon tempers that in the right kind of way.

Wow, those are some really great thoughts for us. You know, I think you're right. There's such an importance to rich songs that we sing that are worth singing. It came home to me a few years ago around my grandmother's bedside as she was passing away from this realm into the next to be with the Lord. And she was one that we sang with a lot. And the thought came to me in those moments— and I've used this several times when talking to songwriters for the church— I've said, you know, thought came to me in that moment, these songs that we are singing in these last moments with my grandmother, these are songs that are worth singing with a lot of great important truth. And I thought, what a great thing for us songwriters to strive for. We're not always going to hit it, but what if we strove to write songs for the church that are worth singing as her people are dying, you know? And truths that are that strong and they're that powerful that would even stand up in moments like that. So I so appreciate what you're saying about the richness of hymnody, and I think it's something that, you know, you've talked about many times about that's how we build deeper believers. And yeah, it's just such a powerful way to do that. So the Sing Conference is coming up, and that really, I think, is what I'm hearing from you is the goal of conferences like these. It's not just to come and hear the big new idea. It really is to help us to become churches that are known by our singing. What's something that particularly excites you about this upcoming year? I know you just finished one this weekend in Belfast.

Yeah, it was a regional event in Belfast. We had 1,100 leaders at the event and then we had 9,000 at the arena event. It was just a really special time.

That's powerful. So what's something that's really exciting you about the upcoming conference in Nashville? Bill?

Well, honestly, the— see, I, I love the conference because of the sheer range of people, because I know the character of the people. I don't, I don't invite names that are in the concert scene. I invite— or the conference scene— I invite people who I know. So I love these people. I believe in them. I love that. I love the combination of theology, of, of people who lead music in church, and of just world-class artists who love the Lord and love the church. And the sheer creativity in the mix of all those things I just think is really, is really stimulating. Um, but I think honestly, of all the things this year, I think it's just the fact that we're actually looking directly at the life of Christ. Monday, the Incarnation, his birth, his vulnerability, his life, his teachings. Tuesday, we're looking at, or looking at the Easter story, his death, his resurrection. Wednesday, we're looking at his, at both the Great Commission that we have now and the Second Coming that is coming. And it's just, you know, to just do something as beautiful as this and as centered as this is great for our souls, but it's also so very, very, very practical. You know, and that, you know, if you're coming this year, you're gonna, sure, you're gonna enjoy the singing and enjoy the teaching and enjoy the, and get lots of, and, you know, meet lots of people, but I think the bigger thing without question is is the sheer practical stuff you're gonna take away for the Christmas season, for the Easter season, for evangelism and mission in your church. So much of our year is spent stressing about those three areas, those three seasons, and what do we wanna do musically. And hopefully every single person this year is going away with just piles and piles of practical stuff. So that's exciting, that's exciting. And I want music directors and pastors and musicians to be leading this year. Excited about the Christmas season, excited about the Easter season, excited about mission evangelism and all these things in their churches.

Yes, that's, that's great. And I love the perspective too because you do international travel. So sometimes those of us that are here in the United States, we just only see kind of one kind of thing that's going on in worship. But I think the fact that you bring a perspective from different parts of the world as well, and you're seeing a lot of different things that are happening. What are you noticing around the world about congregational singing as you are traveling the world?

Well, I'm noticing that for the most part it's happening less and less. I mean, we need to change the culture. You know, there's too much of our worship services is this narcissistic desire to create transcendental experiences, to create an emotional experience for oneself instead of actually being the body of Christ, which is getting together to sing to one another. You know, I sing on a Sunday not 'cause I like the music or 'cause I like the music guy or 'cause I necessarily feel this, that, or the other. I'm there because God has commanded me to sing, 'cause God has created me to sing, and because this gospel, this story of what Christ has done for us on the cross and the resurrection, is so much greater than the greatest sporting story, the greatest salacious gossip, The greatest sensational historical moment that happens in our lifetime is tiny compared to this extraordinary gospel story that I go on Sunday to sing about that. And I sing it to the people, people in my church. I sing it to the guy in the row in front, even though, you know, I don't know him particularly well. I sing it because somebody in the church may be struggling with temptation, maybe struggling with depression, maybe discouraged. And so we get together to be church, to be family. To sing to one another.

Wow, that's some, some really good insight for us today. I, I did want to let listeners know too, in case they don't know, I think probably just about everybody knows about your hymns, especially, you know, most popular ones like In Christ Alone, things like that. But I wonder if some of our listeners are aware that you and Kristin have also written a book called Sing. And I wondered if you might want to tell us a little bit about the book.

Oh sure. I'll be honored to do that, yeah. It's a real short book, only takes about an hour and a half to read. We wrote this book in the year, in 2017, to just help us think about why we sing, and then what happens when we sing. So why we sing, and then what happens to us as individuals, what happens to us in our families, our marriages, our children, what happens in our churches, what happens to the wider community. And there are a bunch of little tips at the end, tips for pastors, for, musicians, for songwriters, and for worship leaders, just to help them begin to apply this stuff.

Well, and it's a great little resource, and I did want to recommend it because it's really—

Thanks, Rick, that's really kind. Thank you.

Yeah, it really helps us, I think, as worship ministers and even pastors to be thinking. And I especially appreciate your emphasis upon, you know, senior pastors really setting the tone for congregations in worship. I think too often we'll see congregations, at least sometimes in the places that I travel. It seems like there's almost, you know, we're just kind of waiting, they're just kind of waiting in the wings until the sermon starts. But there really is a sense in which the senior pastor is essential in this. And so I always appreciate that about the way you emphasize that in worship too. So there's a lot of good jewels in the book Sing for many of us to carry on. Well, I want to let listeners know that the best way for them to to get connected with the Sing Conference, they can go a couple of different ways. They can go to Eventbrite if they would like to do that and look up the Sing Conference, but they can also go to gettymusic.com/events and they will see not only the Sing Conference in Nashville, but the many different events that are going to be going on with Sing, with the Gettys. And if you've ever heard them before, you know that it's always excellent. Excellent. And it's especially excellent because you do have the church at heart and spreading the message of Christ. And so we so appreciate that. Um, well, is there anything else that you would like us to highlight while we're here on the program about the conference, or anything that you have in the works?

We would love people to come. Obviously there's concerts in the evening as well, a big Bridgton Arena concert. There's a, there's a concert at the Grand Ole Opry each night, so your ticket includes Passage of the Sponsors of Handel's Messiah, sing-along if you like, if you grew up singing in choirs. There's also a pre-concert on the Sunday night with Joni Eareckson Tada telling her, telling her story, which is just going to be extraordinary. So these are, these are beautiful, beautiful nights, and we'd really recommend them to all of you.

Oh wow, well, I can't wait to be there, and I'm excited that I do get to attend this year, and I'm going to be there just enjoying every bit of it, and it's going to be a great time. And I especially, I wanted to thank you as well because I know that You have been featuring my friend Andrew Peterson with his wonderful song "Is He Worthy" at your conferences. I have been amazed to see the way that God has used that not only in my local congregation, but just the way that God seems to be using it around the world. It is such a powerful song because it is just so Christ-focused. So I want to just thank you for giving him that platform because it is amazing.

Well, listen, it is my absolute privilege. And we were with him last night, and he was with us in Belfast on Saturday. It was fantastic. So thank you so much.

That's amazing.

Thank you, sir.

Well, it has been a real privilege to have you on Voices in My Head today. And as I say to all my guests, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

Thank you, Rick.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.