Voices In My Head Podcast Episode #290: Tripp Fuller and the Road To Edmond

<LYRICS>Hymns, Prayers and Invitations</LYRICS> The latest album from Rick Lee James has garnered praise from CCM Magazine, Worship Leader Magazine, UTR Media, and more. Written and arranged using hymnals and prayer books for inspiration, this collection of 10 modern hymn-like worship songs will inspire individuals and congregations to draw near to the heart of God. <LYRICS>—Holy name of God.</LYRICS> Highlights include Christ Is Lord, inspired by St. Patrick's Breastplate Prayer, Advent Hymn, and the Communion Hymn: The Invitation. Worship leaders will be glad to know that all songs on the album are published through LifeWay Worship. Find Hymns, Prayers, and Invitations on Amazon, Spotify, Apple Music, CD Baby, and at Rick Lee James. .com. Have you ever thought to yourself, man, I'd like to host my own podcast? Well, guess what? You can go to podbean.com/voices and get everything you need to create, manage, and promote your podcast. I use Podbean every week for Voices in My Head. There's easy uploading and publishing tools, stunning templates, custom domains, social and promotional tools, an embeddable podcast player, monetization automation tools, and more. It is your all-in-one podcasting solution. With Podbean, you can create professional podcasts in minutes without any programming knowledge. Best of all, everything is mobile ready right from the start. So go to podbean.com/voices, and when you sign up, use the code voices and you'll get a sizable discount. Podbean, for your home podcasting. Thank you for listening to Voices in My Head. Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer-songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is your source for discussions on music, literature, movies, pop culture, theology, and more. Now sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of the Voices in My Head podcast. And don't forget to let the voices in your head be heard by following me on Twitter @RickLeeJames and sharing your thoughts about today's show. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host, Rick Lee James. He's the founder and host of the number one theology podcast, Home Brewed Christianity. As an author, speaker, podcaster, and professional theologian, He is committed to bringing the best resources from the academy to the church so we can brew a more robust faith today. Tripp Fuller, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Oh, glad to be here, uh, in your head and, you know, a bunch of other people's heads as well. Definitely.

Well, it's great to have you on today. As we begin today, uh, we're here to talk about a movie that you recently have released and starred in. But before we do that, I would love for you to tell our listeners about Homebrewed Christianity and how it began and, and how it's branched out now that it's 10 years old.

Well, um, yeah, so I started it 10 years ago, um, near the end of my time in Divinity School at Wake Forest University. And, um, it came out of our kind of pub theology group at Div School, and my best friend Chad, we wanted some reason to kind of hang out on the internet and things when we didn't live next to each other anymore. We wanted to keep having, uh, theological conversations and such. So, um, I, uh, had started the pub group similar to that right at my first— the first church I was working at, and started bringing, um, theologians on and recording it, uh, and putting it on rewritable CDs. Back then. And Chad's like, idea, we should start a podcast instead of you rewriting CDs. Then everyone can download and listen to the interviews of the theologians and Bible scholars and such, and then you don't have to, uh, do the whole CD thing. Yeah, I didn't know what a podcast was. He explains it to me and I'm like, oh cool. So we start Homebrewed Christianity, and originally it was connected to those pub groups where You know, if you have a group and you're getting together discussing a book, 10% read it. So if you are the extrovert who read it, you spend most of the time not with high quality craft beer, but in explaining the book. So, um, I started doing the interviews of people. We were going to discuss their books at the group. Then I realized people are listening to the podcast and I could get free books. So. Uh, it kind of took off from there, and over the course of 10 years, there's just been that kind of slow and steady growth, really, until podcasting got significantly bigger, um, and just a larger percentage of the population listened. But I've been interviewing theologians and philosophers and all that kind of stuff, and the whole goal has always been to have engaging interviews with the best academics so that your average person who went, you know, majored in something different at school or has a career elsewhere can benefit from the ideas that are in the academy. And, um, they can, you know, quote, brew their own faith. And that, it really kind of started the same time craft breweries revival started, home brewing got popular again, and America was realizing that beer was something more than Paps Blue Ribbon. So, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of how it started. It's gone on since then. Now, um, this year we passed— we've already passed 3 million downloads, which, you know, for some podcasts is big, some it's not. But, you know, when you think of them as 90 minutes of theology with a lot of big words, it's, uh, quite a few. And yeah, um, there's a book series Homebrewed Christianity Guides. There I, I speak a lot and that kind of thing, and we put on our own events. Uh, Homebrew does, um, events that are like mixtures of craft beer and super nerdiness. Sure. Um, and, uh, yeah, and that backed into making a movie.

Yeah, well, congratulations to you on 10 years, by the way. That's not— there's probably not a lot of podcasts that can, can boast that, for one thing. And you do it so well and have have become such a wonderful host, and your insights are always really fascinating. And through the years, you've interviewed some really great guests. You've had people like Jurgen Moltmann and Richard Rohr and Jen Hatmaker and Science Mike McCargue and Stanley Hauerwas and William Willimon, just to name a few of your guests. And I've had several of those on my show as well and have made some really great memories in my mind. I just have to ask you, do you have a favorite Homebrewed Christianity moment that when you think of like, this was, this was the best thing, or in your mind, it may not even be one of those great guests, but is there just a time that you think of like, this, this is it for me?

I think the first— when I realized that the podcast meant something to people past, oh, I can learn something. The first few times that happened, and I was you know, speaking at an event, and it was, uh, probably like the third or fourth time I spoke at some, you know, event for ministers or whatever. And, um, and, and all of those early ones are, you know, people I knew and looked up to suggesting me where I got an opportunity to do it. And I'm like driving down, driving 3 states away and spending 3 nights in a hotel to get paid $200 to talk. Um, and I was speaking at an event in Florida and one of the keynote people got sick. And so the, the organizer said, hey, you know, a whole lot of people really went, they went to your session, like they all knew you. So like, do you want to like talk tomorrow afternoon for the keynote? Because I mean, I guess I could get, you know, like someone that's already talked again and talk again, but I think people would like it. And, you know, I freaked out, then was like, obviously, and then went and planned my talk and, and was amazed humans chose to listen to me for an hour and a half. So, and then after it, hearing them go, oh, I liked how you pulled that from that interview. And there are these ideas and it's, it was so good to meet you in person. Cause it's like, we talk every week. Um, those kind of first few times where I realized that numbers on downloads were actual humans. Yeah. And that someone cared about what I was so passionate about enough to, to listen and engage was, I think, the big, the big shift, shifting point for me. And, uh, since then, you know, I've tried all sorts of stuff and real— and trusted the audience so that, you know, um, the podcast makes up a very significant portion of my time, my income. Um, the— it opens up all sorts of doors for, you know, speaking and teaching. And, uh, at this point in the game, I'm, uh— I love when I finally get a yes to interview someone I've been trying to get on the podcast for years. And, uh, or when someone I've told they need to start a podcast for years finally does. Like when Pete Enns started his, he had come to a couple live homebrew shows and stuff. I'm like, you should really start one because, yeah, uh, there's not a like clear for normal people Bible person on podcasting that's not a fundie. You'd be great. He's like, no, I don't know, blah blah blah, you know. And then he starts it. Uh, anyway, yeah, so to me, being in it that long Um, the communities that have built out of the listeners, of community with other podcasters. And, uh, each year Homebrew does a couple of events and they're intentionally, you know, like under 100 people. Um, and I get to hang out with people, listen all the time, hear their stories, and, and everyone gets to meet each other and community kind of is formed that way. So those are probably the, you know, why I love, enjoy, and dig doing it. Yeah, well, that's great.

Well, and it's obvious that you do care about the people who listen to your show, and anyone who's ever listened to you can tell that pretty quick. And I think it shines through also in this new movie that you're starring in, The Road to Edmond. So I want to talk about that with you while you're here today. In The Road to Edmond, I enjoyed watching this and And I want to read the synopsis though from the website for people who may not have had a chance to watch it yet, because it is an independent film and it's not really in wide release yet. So this is the synopsis, and as always, I don't know if you wrote the synopsis or if it was David Trotter or somebody connected with you on that line, but it's a great synopsis. It says, imagine a youth pastor, also known as Cleo, whose love for a teenage girl puts his job at the church in jeopardy. No, not an underage pervy sort of love. We're talking about a level of care and acceptance that most churches aren't too fond of. Now you're wondering what her deal is, aren't you? The elder board puts Cleo in a 2-week Jesus timeout, so he packs a bag, hits the road on his bike, and runs into a hairy guy named Larry traveling with his dead dad, which is you. Actually, Larry runs into Cleo, but we'll leave that for the film. All kinds of craziness ensues, causing Cleo to question faith, sexuality, and Jesus. Including How Far Is Too Far. It's weird and you'll love it, we promise. So the first question I have for you about The Road to Edmund, had you ever done any acting before this film came out? Because you have quite a large role in it.

Um, so in undergrad I started as a musical theater and philosophy major. Um, the, uh, so, you know, in part that I— it was like enough for me to think, clearly you can do this. And I guess the other side of it is, for, um, for me, the, uh, I was in Art Magnet School growing up. So from middle school on, I would have like 2 of my periods at school connected to to, uh, doing, um, theater and such. So I, I would say like I had just enough experience with acting that, um, someone with an inappropriate or unhealthy relationship of confidence would say yes. Um, now if you're a minister and a youth minister and have to get up and lecture in front of people you get more comfortable doing what's necessary to hold attention. You get better at timing and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I, I figured there was transferable skills. Um, Nathan, who plays Cleo, had never done anything, and, um, Dave and I both thought our just natural friendship and dynamic would work. And so I kind of, uh Well, uh, he did not know how serious we were about making the film until I brought him the contract. I'm like, so, you know, on the rare, you know, on the rare occasion that we actually pay off the film and make money, then here's how we're splitting it. He's like, we're really going to make the movie? I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's like, and I'm supposed to act in it? Don't worry.

Yeah, right. So it's, it's sort of a homebrewed film too in that, in that regards, when you think about it. That's great though. Well, you're really fun to watch in the film, and I think the chemistry that you two had shines through a lot in the film. But I'd love to know, you know, you talked a little bit about, you know, bringing the contract and people who hadn't acted before. How did this movie really come about in the first place?

Well, um, the, uh, Dave Trotter, who's the producer of it is a friend of mine. We'd worked together in other contexts, and, you know, he, he and I had talked a couple times about doing some movie stuff or films projects together. He's made a number of social justice documentary films. He wanted to make a, like, a feature-length film. He wrote a script for one, couldn't really get it off the ground. Had the idea for this, comes to me, says, okay, youth minister, church is like, why are you welcoming to this girl that came out? Take 2 weeks off, pray about your vocation and stuff. And, um, dude hits his bike, they go on a road trip, all craziness ensues. What do you think? And I'm like, that sounds fun. Um, what about the guy that's hitting him? He is— I don't know, what do you think? So we went back and forth and kind of sketched out the characters of Cleo and Larry. And then he comes back to me a few months later and says, hey, remember that idea we had? I'm like, not exactly. Well, be funny in an hour. I have a friend calling. I think he was going to give us money to make the movie, you know, the one about the youth minister and stuff. And I was like, all right. So I answer the phone, say things, and we get the thumbs up. And after that, we're like having to write out all of our ideas and outline the movie and then figuring out when can we film it. And that summer, like not this summer that just ended, but the one before, 2017, um, Peter Rollins and I were doing a little tour in Oklahoma and Denver for, uh, Theology Beer Camps, which are these like homebrewed events. And I'm like, well, we're doing one in Denver, Colorado, and then one in Oklahoma City. So what if we filmed between, like on the weekdays between the weekends and after it? And they're like, all right. So then we went through our story and found all the locations and things to fit in that journey, in that story. And the movie is a kind of, uh, you know, inappropriate buddy comedy with progressive spiritual themes, um, telling of the Emmaus story. And so we're like, what's a town with the letter E in it that we're gonna pass? Edmond, Oklahoma. All right, so we're gonna end in Edmond. And so then we got on the internet, found places, all that kind of stuff. We had the sketch of the story and things, and we started adding locations and everything. And, you know, that— then that summer comes, and me and Nathan and then Dave and 3 crew, Brandon, Jess, and Corey, were— we had 2 big white vans and And between the beer camps, we were filming and it was a, it was a blast. And the most work I've ever like done in 2 weeks of back-to-back days. They were all like 16, 17-hour days of filming or driving to the next place. Um, but yeah, it was a, it was a fun thing to make happen. And looking back at it, I. I don't think I had any clue what I was saying yes to when I started, or I might not have said yes. But at this point I'm like, all right, we, we want everyone to find out about this film and like it enough that we get to do it again because that was awesome.

Yeah, well, you know, that's— it's amazing because there's a lot of memorization that has to go into something like that, and it's over a 2-hour film with mostly just the two of you. Carrying it. So I can only imagine how much work that must have been just on the memorization side of things and blocking and figuring out what you're going to be doing. And then there's, you know, the fun of driving White Lightning around. And I had heard that maybe that van wasn't the greatest van on the planet that you had driven around, just listening to some of your podcast conversations. About it, but could you tell us a little bit about White Lightning? Because that really is almost a character itself in the film.

Oh, oh yeah, yeah. And in the, in the credits, um, you know, it's like, oh, Cleo played by Nathan, Larry by Trip, White Lightning as self. Um, the— so one thing is the story is really about youth minister, a youth minister in transition. Sure. Um, and, uh, like if you were to think of like the icon of youth ministry, it's the van. Yeah. Like the youth van. And if you've been a youth minister, all sorts of things that are amazing and horrible have happened in youth vans. Hmm. Um, so we, we were like, where is all this gonna go down? In a big van. Um, and Uh, so in one sense, it is, uh, if the youth band is like the, the, the, the tool that youth ministers use to take youth out of their normal rhythm with their friends and their family and their school and sports, all that kind of stuff, and put them in an environment where they can, um, detach from all these groups and people projecting on them who they have to be, and they can kind of get to know themselves more in the context of grace, then um, let's use a van as the place that happens. And, um, White Lightning, uh, was, was, uh, had just enough in her to get through the film. On the, the day after the film, it, uh, it died. Wow. And White Lightning never really, um, uh, recovered.

Well, also, that reminds me of youth ministry because I was a youth pastor for several years, and it seemed like those vans were always the, the least dependable vehicles on the planet. You'd always get either just, just where you needed to go and they'd die or something like that. So I guess that's sort of appropriate when you're telling a story like this one as well.

Yeah, and it's, uh, um, the, the van, I think, in the film is, uh, it, it's carrying everything that the characters have to decide if they're going to leave behind or not. And a lot of us, I think, as people of faith, the very same context where you come to encounter faith, encounter God, and grow spiritually also become places you have to leave behind to stay, uh, alive in that journey and growing. Yeah, um, and, uh, and, and if you're a youth minister, you know plenty of people who never really grew past, uh, where their maturity that they had then. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, so it picks up his broken bike and he keeps it all the way until the end when he's really kind of moving on and leaving that part of him behind. And sure, that kind of thing.

So, well, something that your film does that I find most faith-based films do not do is your film really asks difficult questions and it doesn't give easy answers, which actually is what kind of makes me not like most faith films because I really come away feeling like they don't feel incredibly authentic whenever you watch a film. So one thing I really appreciate about what your film does is you're, you're asking some very difficult questions, but they are not foreign questions. They're just questions that churches don't necessarily want to deal with. And so I appreciate it from that aspect of the film. I can only imagine how hard the writing and the acting must be. And there's sort of a twist surprise ending, and it really, for me anyway, it brought me nearly to tears just thinking through some of the things that the character had been through, especially your character. That we don't, that we don't see. There's a lot more depth to your character than what we would ever imagine when we first meet you in the film. And that starts to come out again and again throughout. But I want to ask this question to you, because I can only imagine how hard it must be to market a film like this that doesn't necessarily check the boxes for any particular genre. And I'll tell you what I mean, and I'm sure you know. There's a few strikes against it, it seems like, like being shown in most churches because of— there's some drug use, there's bad language, there's adult themes, as I said before, that a lot of churches don't want to deal with, like homosexuality. And it's a movie that is— it's pretty lengthy, and it doesn't have Batman or Iron Man in it, which is almost a strike against any film these days, it seems like. So I guess my question in all that is Who do you hope is the audience that this movie will find as it goes through the coming days? Obviously, I think it speaks a lot to ministers. I think it speaks a lot to maybe even youth pastors and youth who are dealing with a lot of things. But who did you hope you were making this film for?

So I really think there are two different primary audiences, and Um, and one is, I think the number of ministers serving in congregations that are either explicitly, uh, condemning of LGBTQ people or just assuming it, so they'd say nothing, uh, the number of ministers in those communities that have more progressive intuitions or thoughts is pretty high. Just Like, in having a podcast like mine, I get emails and messages and meet people at live events and stuff who regularly say, like, my denomination, my church, um, uh, or at least enough of the church that they don't want to say anything, um, they believe are much more rigid and closed around being open and affirming. And so you have ministers who end up like, uh, the senior minister of the church that Cleo works for, who at one time is like sitting there going like, I'm really proud of you, Cleo, for being welcoming to this girl. It was courageous, you know. I, I support you in whatever you decide, and you know, I, I probably do the same thing if it wasn't for the fact I needed health insurance and blah blah blah. Um, so this film for those ministers and those leaders is one to go like We know you exist, and it's hard to share what the tensions are, what it's like to be in that position as a leader unless you've been there. So, um, uh, Dave and I are both ordained ministers, uh, the producer of the film, and he and I wrote most of the film together. So, um, he and I are both ministers. He comes from a much more conservative place, uh, growing up, um in the churches he worked at, like mega churches and stuff in Southern California. So it's, uh, we had— we both thought of so many people who are trapped in the situation like Cleo, and the solution isn't to explain to them what to do with the clobber versus or whatever. Sure. It's really to give, um, you know, the space for them to be honest and, um, and, and an opportunity to really reflect outside of the day-to-day anxiety and tension of being in a church, in a congregation, about who they are and what they want to be as a minister. And so for those people, we made the film. And, um, the— in, in the group of people have really loved and responded, uh, to the movie, um, and And the others are really people who have been hurt and harmed by the church, uh, who have baggage with Christianity or just assume the church is so dismissive of questioning, doubt, and stuff in faith around— sexuality is one issue in the film, but also like salvation, uh, providence comes up and that kind of thing. Um, And, and for those that are— and a lot of them have this experience if you do, if you read much of the interview form of research on the nuns and duns— is they will have had such wonderful experiences early in their life in church and even youth group and stuff and walk away like they graduated from it, or they really benefited from the encouragement in the community and the formation and the moral development and stuff, but 'Uh, yeah, the church is kind of backwards. It's not really trying to like keep us from killing the planet and helping the poor and welcoming their neighbors, so I moved— I matured past it and stuff.' For people that have that kind of baggage or, uh, resentment or have been harmed or they've just walked away, um, we wanted the film to both introduce them, uh, to a vibrant progressive expressions of the faith, like the church where the wedding's at in the middle of the film, um, where it's an extremely diverse Methodist congregation in, uh, Denver. Um, the people that were all there were members of that church and members of the Gay Men's Chorus of Denver, which meets in that church where the wedding scene is, right? So we wanted them to just see that, and we wanted, um, uh, those that have been harmed and stuff that are like 'Until I've heard you hear me, I can't keep this conversation going.' So Larry's antagonism to, um, Cleo and his faith and stuff in the first part of the film was there so that if you are comfortably conservative evangelical and such, you have to hear, if you're going to finish the movie, what a lot of people think and may not say to you. And why it is people walk away. It's not because they hate Jesus. And for those that think all that stuff, to know they've been heard and understood. And then what does it look like to process your religious past, your religious baggage? And so my character Larry, towards the end of the film, you realize that, um, he's the reason he was the person he was in the beginning. If you're a person of faith and you're judging him It's for a reason. You could see yourself doing the same thing. Mm. And, um, so often our religious identities are things we have to protect. So we have to label somebody and then dismiss what we think that label means. When if we got stuck in a van by a river with them for 3 days, and then we realized they cared about us and found out more about their story, we would cry in solidarity with the pain they're going through. And in doing that, we open up the space for healing and transformation. Um, and so the— when I think of this film and the audience, like, I want the ministers who are sitting there, um, to— that are stuck in the thing to see, like, uh, here's a story of someone that chose, uh, the loving path and the cost of that kind of fidelity. Um, and here's the cost if you don't do anything. Like, there are individuals who will, in your silence, assume that God judges them just like, uh, they assume you do, until you're clear about their— well, the welcome and embrace of God. And on the other side, there are a lot of people that are harmed and hurt by the church that I want them to see a bigger, uh, and more loving and embracing vision, especially those who have been ostracized and excommunicated over their sexual identity. Um, but not just them, their friends or their grandparents and stuff. The one of the first times we screened the film, after a grandmother's crying with her grandson, the first time they had hung out in years because the parents disowned the grandson when they came out. And she agreed to, uh, she had said, I'll always be with you, I just can't, I don't want to disobey, you know, like your parents and the boundaries they want. Um, and it was screened at a church. And so the grandmother shows up because it's at a church and you can always be— you can see him when he goes back to church, is what the parents said. So she's like, well, it's screening at a church, he's invited, it's a Christian movie, so I'm gonna go because I want to see my grandson, right? So after the film, she's sitting there, uh, crying because she hadn't seen her grandson in a number of years. Um, she sees these the, the story of, uh, Larry ends up resonating with her and her son, the one, the grandkid, um, father, and the pain that the dad's dealing with. And she realizes how much of what's sitting there in the family keeping relationships apart isn't really about the fact that her grandson's gay at all, um, and there are the, all these other issues. And yet You know, this movie that if her grandson wasn't with her, she said she would have walked out at the campfire scene, um, became the place he was affirmed in a church, acknowledging the wounds he carries because of what his parents had done to him. And a grandmother saw those acknowledged, and a group of ministers that were there to speak life into him. And like, who knows what her grandmother— his grandmother thinks right now about sexuality or whatever, but The film facilitated, because of the laughter and the stories, humans getting over the way their ideas keep us apart. Hmm. And I think that when God leads us to greater beauty and goodness as a people, it's so often our faithfulness to the humans in front of us. Hmm. In loving and doing the right thing. And then we have to think through scripture and our and truth and stuff so that our theology can catch up with our faithfulness. And a lot of times it doesn't happen because, all right, we're— we, we know we'd act like Jesus, but our doctrine's in the way, and that keeps it from going on. And I could have made tons of podcasts about ideas and things that have never had the same response as a movie that has, uh, you know, tons of funny or inappropriate jokes in it. But also, uh, stories that you can identify and resonate with. Um, yeah, sorry, that's a long answer.

You, you know, it's good.

Yeah, it will. Um, there's a reason my podcasts are never 30 minutes.

I understand, it's, it's hard to keep them that close, and you have a lot of good things to say, so that's totally fine. Um, and I appreciate that. I appreciate the way that hopefully this film will facilitate some conversations, and I, I love hearing just just that one story about the grandmother and the grandchild. And that's a beautiful thing. We often have such a hard time in the church of even if we don't agree with a person's lifestyle choices, or whether we do, or whatever the case, so often the church is so bad at saying, "But we want you here, and we want to figure this out together, and we want to walk together in this, and we're gonna seek together. And so often it's just, well, sorry, we disagree and you're out. And I wish that churches would become more embracing of just being like Jesus in that regard of, I'm coming to your house today, you know, we're gonna go have a meal together, we're gonna talk about these things. And I think that your film is bringing up some very good questions, and it's bringing up some very necessary relational issues between family members and people in churches. And so I appreciate all the hard work that you've done on the road to Edmond. Before our time is up here, which we're running a little bit close today, but I want to know, how can people see this film? The way that I saw it is David sent me a screener to watch, and I know that that's not the most effective way to get it out to the masses. So Um, how, how is it that you would, um, like for listeners today to know if they're interested in seeing this film, what's the best way that they and their friends can see it?

Okay, so there's a couple ways. Um, just I would say go to theroadtoedmond.com, um, theroadtoedmond.com, and, uh, all the social media stuff is The Road to Edmond. Okay. Um, right now we just— a couple weekends ago we had house parties and House of God parties where you could screen the film in your church or in your house with friends. And, uh, there's a, uh, bingo game that goes along with it, and/or it could be attached to, uh, your favorite beverage like orange juice. Um, there, uh, bingo cards you can print out and use, discussion questions and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, it— that went so well, there were like over 50 different people um, or churches hosting screenings that weekend. We opened it back up where anyone that wants to host those can, and you can get that at, um, the— and you could, you know, literally do it by yourself. But our thing is we made the movie for people to talk with people in their lives and about it. So the cheapest way to watch the film currently is just to host a house party because, uh, we're pumped about it serving as that, as a conversation starter. Um, you can also get the VIP Access experience, which is like, uh, I think it's like $40, and it includes all the behind-the-scenes videos and stuff we made while we're making the movie, the movie to watch, you know, um, and or stream and stuff. And, uh, I made a 4-week small group curriculum called How Far Is Too Far about the Bible and sexuality. That, um, you know, they're kind of like 15 to 20 minute videos, discussion guides, and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, looking at the Bible and sexuality in, in, in a broader sense— it's not really about like LGBTQ issues specifically, but what does it mean to have, uh, what does holiness look like with our bodies? How do we, uh, understand shame and pain around, uh, sexual violence and things like that that the church has done a poor job discussing And it's not just— at least this is Tripp's opinion— it's not just, um, those who have been excommunicated, kicked out, or shamed in our congregations, um, that really feel like our, our opinion about sexualities ended up hurting them or whatever. All of us, and especially American Christianity, I think, have a bad understanding of the gift of sexuality and our bodies that God's given us. And so The small group curriculum is really looking about, looking at a bigger picture, reclaiming it. So if you go do the VIP access thing, you get like the movie, the behind the scenes, and all that kind of stuff, and the small group curriculum. Um, for those that want to, uh, support the film and us spreading it and all that stuff, you can become an associate producer where you get all the VIP access things, can screen it at your congregation, all that, and, um, you Uh, you know, until the movie goes through all the film festivals and stuff in the next year, um, we will keep adding associate producers into the credits, uh, which will be on the finished version when you can like purchase it, you know, like on iTunes or whatever. Um, and, uh, you'll get your name on the IMDb page. Uh, so that's an option. And, and the other thing I would just say is, uh If you are interested in— if, if like that, what we've said, you know, in our conversation and, and stuff about it, that you're interested in screening it but don't know, then just email us on the website. Because I don't want anyone getting in trouble at their congregation if they like, oh, it'd be great for us to have a movie, I heard Tripp and Rick talk, blah blah, and then they get halfway through the film and they're like, oh, junk. Yeah. Um, so email if you're interested. You can screen it and decide what the right place is. I've, uh, it's been shown in entire churches, it's been shown in youth groups, and it's been, uh, I, I know a number of ministers who screened it at their homes, did not tell anyone they were doing it, and only invited certain people from their church. And like all sorts of different things. So Um, you know, uh, I mostly just want people to see it. And, um, you know, there are those 3 different ways. Plus, if you're a faith leader or community leader or work with students, um, campus ministry groups have screened it and stuff, that whatever. If you want to show it and have a conversation with people about it and the options that exist don't make sense, then just let us know, um, and, and we'll figure it out. And you can holler at us at— on the website, The Road to Edmond. Okay, great.

So, well, that's a great way for people to find out more. And well, I want to tell all the listeners who are listening today, I encourage you to, to check out theroadtoedmond.com and find out more about this film. And also check out all of the many hats that Trip wears over at Homebrewed Christianity. And Trip, I want to thank you for— well, first I want to congratulate you. 10 years, that's, uh, that's an awesome thing. And so we really are proud of you and the work that you have been doing through Homebrew Christianity and the good questions that you're raising for us to ask together. And, uh, is there anything that we have left out of our conversation before we close today that you would like to talk about?

Um, well, I mean, actually the thing that pops in my head is, uh, I'm interested what was, uh, like, what was the scene of the movie that made you laugh the most, and what was the one that gave you the heebie-jeebies the most?

Well, I'll tell you the heebie-jeebie one. That one's probably the campfire scene with the smoking and the tearing out of the pages of— I don't want to tell too much about the scene because I don't want people— but that was just— that might have been my like, ooh, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that moment, which is okay because I think film, you know, wants to draw that out of us. I'm trying to think of what the funniest moment of the film was. You have so many lines that you bring about that I'm trying to think of any, any one good spot that I like more than another. I really enjoyed, you know, just your dialogue scenes that you had, and I thought it was funny, the, the man, the mechanic that you had talked to in town. It wasn't necessarily just one scene, but sort of the idea about coming back and talking with him about the mechanic that wasn't going to work on the car over the weekend, but then you befriend him later on. And there's just a lot of good, good moments like that. So I'm gonna have to check it out again. But yeah, but it's— there's a lot of memorable moments for sure in the film. But I'll be honest with you, more than the funny, I, you know, I get, I get moved by the serious things. And especially being a father, I myself. And again, I don't want to give too much away because if people haven't seen the film, they really need to see it fresh, I think. But there is something that has to do with, with being a father and really being a son too towards the end of the film. And, and it's a very emotional scene, and I can only imagine how difficult that must have been to play that scene. And it really moved me. And when I think about the film, for me personally, that's the part that resonates the most with me, and especially having to do with, you know, I've— we, my wife and I have lost several children due through miscarriages. And, and I just get very emotional. Yeah. When I think of parents who have dealt with that sort of— not just that sort of loss, but the loss of a child is, is— it's, it's profound. And so for me personally, if I'm going to talk just about moments that, that meant the most to me, I want to say what you did with those closing scenes of the movie for me resonated a lot. And so I appreciate your work.

I, I really appreciate that. And the, um, one of the things, and this would be interesting to look at next if you watch it again, is there's a lot of rather subtle symbolism throughout the whole first half that, um, echo specific moments in the life of Jesus and the relationship of him and the disciples that, um, and they're almost all— there's one that's not, but, um, but I've— I always tell people to look for it, but don't ever spell it out because I would hate for my own interpretation of the film to ruin others. But because you emphasize the fatherly thing, when you rewatch it, a whole lot of the jokes and bits that the first time you watch it, so you know the whole story, you don't get, are, uh, Larry processing his own relationship and stuff with his father before it even is revealed at all in the film. And they serve as these kind of analogies to parts, uh, places in the Gospels where Jesus is coming to a greater understanding of who Abba is, what his mission is. And so there's like this contrast of Larry resisting in anger about his father coming up, and at the same time what's going on is triggering in Cleo, who's this little youth minister, uh, parallels to Jesus teaching about Abba to the disciples and all that kind of stuff. Um, so the, the, uh, father-son themes run, run throughout. And, um, it's not till the second time you watch it that a lot of the, uh, a lot of what's going on in the first half gets— can get picked up on, you know, if we semi-succeeded.

Yeah, no, no, you did, you did. And I could totally see that because I think when I thought back through the film in light of the ending, so much of that did click. And, and so you're right, it does need a second screening with that in mind, as good things that make you think, you know, they're worth a second and third and fourth and many more after that look. So, well, Trip, we're out of time, but I just want to thank you again. I'm proud of the work that you're doing, and thank you for being here on the show today, and thank you for being one of the voices In My Head this week.

Well, uh, I'm glad to, uh, spend some time in your head. And, um, let me know, uh, how, how a second viewing goes. And, uh, if you ever want to hang out on the internet again, we can do it.

Sounds great. All right, God bless.

All right, peace.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com Follow me on Twitter @RickLeeJames, like my artist page at facebook.com/RickLeeJames, and keep up to date on what I'm writing on my author page on Amazon. There's also the Voices in My Head Facebook community found at facebook.com/VoicesPodcast. And if you want to follow my alter ego on Twitter, follow my popular Mr. Rogers quote account found at @MrRogersSounds. Say. Also, make sure to follow my appearance schedule on my website, and if you would like to have me come to your town to do a concert, a speaking engagement, or a book event, you can book me through my website at rickleejames.com/bookings. And it would mean the world to me if you would write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews we receive, the more visible this podcast is on the internet. And now the benediction. May the God of peace, who raised Christ from the dead, strengthen you in your inner being for every good work. And may the blessing of God Almighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rest upon you and dwell within you this day and forevermore. Amen.