Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast) Episode 444: Becca Jordan

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you could be here with us again for what I know is going to be a great conversation. My guest this week on Voices in My Head is singer and songwriter Becca Jordan. Her new album, Becoming Ordinary, debuted last month to great acclaim, and she's here to speak with me about it today. To start, let's begin by playing a track from Becoming Ordinary. This is a song called Ordinary Everyday Love.

Sam goes next door every day to meet her. He sits in the very same place to wait. He raves about how good the food is while she picks at her plate. That's what I saw love do today. Dale sees his kids every day to visit, talking while walking around the neighborhood. They get their steps in together, no matter the weather. That's what I saw love do today. Give me eyes to see who is standing in front of me. Could it be enough? Just ordinary, everyday love. Jean's family comes every year for Christmas. I take their picture by the tree. We laugh and say how the time flies while it passes us by. That's what I saw love do today. Oh, that's what I saw love do today.

And that was ordinary everyday love. By my guest, Becca Jordan. Becca, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you, Rick. Thanks for having me here today.

Well, I'm always so glad to have guests every week, but I'm especially glad to have you because I am really a big fan of this new album. It's great. Um, had a chance to, to meet you, uh, just a few weeks ago at one of the house shows, and we'll talk about that some. But while it's all fresh in our mind, I want to talk about the song that we just heard 'Ordinary Everyday Love.' Again, it's on your new album, 'Becoming Ordinary.' I really love this song. And so while it's fresh on our mind, give us the behind-the-music story of that song because I, because I want to hear the story behind it.

Sure, sure. Well, so I have spent 4 years working in a retirement community as an activities director, and I actually just left that job in August of this year, so it's fairly new. But my work there, um, of course course gave me tons of field study, if you will, on what it means to love people in a very simple, organic, natural way. So most of my job was spent doing things like leading bingo, taking my seniors on field trips, helping them, you know, check their mail. I mean, just anything from daily life to helping them thrive in that setting was a part of my job. And so this story of this song unfolded by me simply just paying attention to where I was and watching these stories unfold before me. So they highlight 3 men in this, in this little vignettes, and these 3 men were particularly special to me because they were a part of a group called the Four Amigos. There was one other guy that I didn't talk about in the song, but they, they called themselves the Four Amigos, and they called themselves that because they were all widows. And so they would have meals together, and at parties they would socialize together. And so they just became three, um, and the other fourth that I didn't mention in the song, but they became just dear friends of mine, and they would offer to include me in their amigos at parties and such, which I found quite delightful. And so the song is very simple. It's, it's true stories of watching these men, um, You know, one interacted with his wife. And when I talk about going next door, so next door to our retirement community, there was a nursing home. So his wife had, had Alzheimer's and was, was now living away from him. So he would go visit her on a daily basis and have meals with her. And I would walk through there and see him eating with her. And, you know, the other men, I just— you become a part of their life cycle and their rhythm. And you just— I just started paying attention and felt like that part of the thing the Lord was asking me to do there was simply see who was in front of me, especially as someone who who, you know, longs to be creative and explore this, you know, territory that's the tire, that's above normal life somehow, you know, to, to think about— I don't know, I think I often think that creativity is just something magical out there. And I think what the Lord was inviting me into was saying, I, I'm like the Creator, and I am in these little vignettes of daily life, can you, can you see me in these people as well? So that's where that song came from.

Well, that's great. Well, I had a suspicion it came from your real-life encounters working with the elderly in that community, because we had met just a few weeks ago— I want to say it was probably about a month ago now— in Cincinnati at a house show down there, and you were with Taylor Lee and Hart and Eric Peters that night. And it was a wonderful show. I really enjoyed it so much. It just so happened that it was my fall break week for me because I'm, as listeners know, I'm pursuing my master's right now. And we had a chance to talk just a little bit before. And when you had shared that you had worked in the elderly community, you had said that you were possibly considering at one point going into medical chaplaincy as well. And I was like, well, this is interesting. And so I was I was glad to hear more about— I could hear some of that, just sort of your— I want to call it your pastoral heart coming through the music and through songs like that, "Ordinary Everyday Love." I could hear it in the music, just in the storytelling, in the images that come through in the song and in the way that you write. I love even just the simple lines about how he brags on the food. That's not the line you use exactly, but that's the image that comes to my mind about, you know, of how they cook. Come together for food. And, um, and this doesn't have to do specifically with, with your song, but I was thinking about the ministry that you had there and the way that you would work with people in that community. Um, and I think that probably is a, a very neglected part of our society, uh, in some ways, elderly care and people that work with them. And, um, there was, there was a movie that I saw, and we don't even have to talk about this at all if you don't want to. It just reminded me of this because there was a movie I saw years ago. I think it was made in Canada, and the movie was called Away from Her, and it was about an elderly couple. And I believe the woman had Alzheimer's or some form of dementia, and she had to be put in a home, but her husband didn't have any sort of mental incapacity. And every day he would go to visit her, but she couldn't remember who he was. And at one point she actually started a relationship with another person in the care facility. And the whole movie was just like this heartbreaking story, but he would go back to see her every day and even let her like pursue this other relationship with this person because she didn't remember him anymore. But he did everything he could to lovingly like care for her and be with her. Um, and it was just like this, this story of like how lonely he was in the midst of still loving her so well. Um, Anyway, I'm going on too much about this movie, but all that was to say, I thought about stories like that as I was hearing your song because of the pictures that you put into it. And I thought about what a neglected community this is, I'm sure, so often among people who have such big hearts and are still loving each other so well. Sometimes when maybe it's one-sided, but they're still doing this incredibly loving, um, agape work of love, I guess I would say. And anyway, that's what I feel like came out in your song. Sorry about the long rant, but I love this song.

I love it, and I need to watch that movie. I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm gonna look that up.

Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a pretty— it's a, it's not like the feel-good movie of the year or anything, but it's a pretty, it's a pretty powerful film. So anyway, well, well, let's get back into your, your music a little bit. Um, the, the new album is really great, and it has some powerful songs on it. Um, I, I had mentioned about this house show that we were a part of, and you're, you're kind of, uh, starting touring, and you had just said, um, you'd left this job in August, so it hasn't been a terribly long time ago, and you're starting it at an interesting time, kind of pursuing music full-time in this way when we're kind of coming out of a pandemic going back into a pandemic, um, kind of been an endemic phase of it and all. And so I'm just wondering, how has life on the road been right now for you? Because I know as an artist myself, it's been kind of slow, up and down. I've had a couple places I've played, and it's, it's been, it's been not normal, I'll say that. I just wonder how, how it has been for you.

That is a great way to put it. Yeah, not normal is as aptly put. It's, it's been adventurous. That might be a positive way to spin it, I think. Um, so I did leave that job. I also work at a church part-time leading worship, so that's another form of income that's steady and another aspect and part of my life that I really love. So that also keeps me pretty grounded. Um, but the fall, September, October, was full to me in terms of shows. I had about 5 shows, which is great, from for me. Yeah. So I had, um, opportunities to play, and I feel like the last couple weeks coming into November, it's kind of come into a slow stop, which I was kind of prepared for, for the holidays.

Sure.

But this is a new, you know, this is all embarking on something new for me of like, what do I do? You know, I spent the time making the record, and now I'm like, now how do I— what do I do in order to share the record?

Yeah.

And how do I do this? So I'm trying to plan some shows in this, the winter and spring, and say, let me just give myself a few, a few weeks weeks from, from the holidays. And so I don't know if that answers your question, but it's certainly been a new chapter for sure. And one thing I've been learning is, you know, I came out of an 8-to-5, very steady work week, and now I'm trying to figure out how do I create structure and order and around this very loose, ambiguous thing in the stream. So I wish I had good answers for you, but it's a lot of work online, just emailing people and asking and, you know, seeing what, what comes up from, from those requests, I guess.

But yeah, I totally get that. I get that. And it's, it's in many ways when you, when you release an album, it's like when an author releases a book too. Um, in some ways, like, the day of release is like the worst and the best day all at the same time, isn't it? Because you're like, it's release day, woo! And yet there's like there's no response. Like, what are you—

yeah, it's anticlimactic.

You're like, like, you're expecting it to be like the whole world's gonna be like, wow! And in reality, it's like, like, does anybody even know this happened? You know? Yeah.

So yeah, it feels a bit like skipping rocks, and it feels like sometimes there's a good ripple, and the other times it just sinks to the bottom, and you're like, well, that's But it's been also neat to realize that it does feel like— it's easy, I think, to use the gardening analogy, but it really helps me to, to stay truly grounded in things that matter. But it's helped me to be like, this is really a seed that I've planted. And so it's, you know, it doesn't— it's not going to yield fruit immediately. And so I think I'm just praying that the Lord is the giver of— he's the gardener ultimately. And so I'm trusting that whatever fruit this yields is whatever he wants it to be. And that's also really hard because my ego's involved, and I'm like, well, if I was gardening this thing, this is what I would do to like, right, to make it grow and flourish. And so it's that weird, you know, divine personal agency coming together and saying, okay, Lord, this is what's on my heart, but ultimately like you're the one that's gonna make something come of this. So, amen.

That's true.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, let's move on with a little bit more of your, your background and your bio, because I, I'm really fascinated by some of your story that you actually have written in your bio on your website. And, um, it says— and I'm just going to read straight from your bio, these are your words, not mine, okay? Um, you said, I traveled to Loughborough in England in the fall of 2016, where I soaked up the reality that the Lord is Lord over all things. Things, stuff like cooking and washing dishes, not just mysterious creative processes like songwriting. So I was wondering if you could share about that part of your story just a little bit with us.

Sure, yeah. For those that aren't familiar, L'Abri Fellowship is a home started by Francis Schaeffer and his wife Edith in the 1950s. It started in Switzerland, but they now have, I think, 7 or 8 branches around the world. So I went to the the location in England. And it's, um, he's really an apologetics guy. So it started from his heart of wanting to say, if the Lord truly is the Lord of the universe, then let's have these conversations about what it really means to be a Christian in very practical, daily rhythm kind of way. So they opened up a home and said anyone who's willing and able and wants to come question this belief of what is Christianity, then we invite you to come do that by living among us, eating meals with us, and doing chores around the house. And so that ethos of L'Abri still stands today. So I've— they have a small daily fee that you pay to stay there. When I went, I stayed for about 3 months and I met people from all over the world, from Australia, New Zealand, a lot of Europeans. And we We lived and worked together. Your day starts with breakfast. You have an assigned chore for the day, whether it's cleaning the bathroom or gardening in the yard or helping to prepare for dinner. And then you also have some built-in time to study and read, and you have a mentor assigned to you to say, what are the questions you're asking? How can I help guide your time here? And it was incredibly formative for me because— and the interesting thing was I met a lot of Christians who have come out of ministry backgrounds. I'm a pastor's kid. I met several missionary kids, several people who said, "I don't want to walk away from the Lord or from the church, but I have been wounded, or I have these questions about what it really means to be a Christian in the world. Do I want to do it in this particular way that I've either been raised by or—" I met people who didn't believe in Jesus and were saying, "I want to know what this is all about." So the questions and the conversations were so rich and so meaningful to me. And really taught me so much about what it means to be, just to be in the world. You know, we focus so much on doing. What do you do for work? What are you doing in school? And what are you doing, doing, doing? But it was such a time of saying, how am I being in the world? What does it mean to rest? What does it mean to be a neighbor? What does it mean to do these really mundane things and believe that Jesus is still Lord over the earth and has meaning laced in things like sharing a meal with someone. And I mean, to this day, I really even view communion different because I still picture, you know, the table with friends and saying, this is what it means to know the Lord and to have these conversations. So I'm always talking about it. I'm always telling people you should go because it was just really impactful for me and my faith. In my life. So I'm a big, big fan and really grateful for the work of the Shaffers and the work that continues to happen at La Brie to this day.

So yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, and I'm glad you mentioned the Lord's Table, because I, I think one thing that opened up for me, even when you mentioned that about sharing a meal, was so often for the longest time, I think as a kid, whenever I would hear, you know, to not, you know, receive the Lord's body in an unworthy manner. And not even realizing until later when I learned Greek and started studying deeper that when it was talking about the body of Christ, it was actually using the plural word, and it was referring to the body, not, not Jesus' body. It was referring to the body of Christ, like the church. And it was referring to the coming together and, and the way that we gathered and the meeting. And so it was actually talking about like the assembly of the people together together at the Lord's table. And it was talking about like the way that we meet together in an unworthy manner is the way that we leave people out. And, um, and for the longest time I had thought, oh, it was like, uh, I, I always had always thought like, oh, I'm, I'm not worthy enough to come, so I've got to pray harder or something. And actually what scripture was trying to say was the unworthy way to come is by leaving people out of this, you know, it's by fencing people away and keeping them away from, uh, this fellowship together. And Paul is saying the exact opposite. So what you're saying and this idea of like, you know, this sharing of a meal and finding the Lord in that place. And, and so I'm glad you mentioned that because for me too, I think that, you know, the Eucharist took on like a whole new meaning, you know, whenever I started kind of uncovering the, the meal aspects of that. Like, oh, it really was a meal, you know, it was supposed to share together. And setting the table.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Well, once again, I'm— you, you wrote it better than I could, so I'm going to read from a little bit of your bio again because I'm grateful that you were able to share that part of your story because it's very meaningful. But this one's going to jump us forward in time just a little bit because now we're back to your record and this part of your bio, which I feel like that part of your story from back then when you were learning about these simple ways of washing dishes, sharing a meal, finding the Lord in these different places really helped you in the time of becoming a writer to where you are. But you also say in your bio, you say, this is what my record Becoming Ordinary is all about, leaving behind all the illusions of what I thought my life would be and picking up what it is— mundane, sometimes deeply lonely, sometimes fraught with joy, and mostly just very ordinary, and giving it to God. Which I really like the way that you phrased that. Um, what a beautiful way to put it though, because that is just life, and that's how you described it. Um, tell us a little bit about the process of making Becoming Ordinary, if you could, because I always like to give my listeners a chance to, again, kind of a behind-the-music type feel when people make make albums, because there's a lot that goes into it. And I feel like artists don't always have a chance to talk about, like, this is what actually went into it, you know, in the process of musicians. And I think one of my old friends Dale Baker got to play some drums, uh, on your album too. Oh, Dale, he's the best. Yeah, but whatever you feel like telling us, and you can make it as long or as short as you want, but I just love to hear some about the, the making of this very cool record.

Sure. Well, thank you. I will try to keep it short because I feel like it's years, honestly. But, um, so before COVID so in 2019, I was in a place with my job where I thought, okay, I don't know what I'm doing here. I know that— I know the Lord's put me here and I should stay, but, um, this desire to sing and share music has always been in my heart. And there was a job opportunity that came up in Texas, actually, that I was considering for leading worship at a church. And I ultimately decided it was interesting because I really felt like the Lord wasn't done with me yet at my workplace. And I thought, I really don't think that— I think I struggle with the line of wanting to, to serve the Lord and love the Lord in his local church, but also feeling that kind of pull-push feeling of like, but you know, ministry really happens with real people in real settings, and trying to figure out what does that mean to like love people and my desire to care for people. So anyway, I started wrestling through that and decided ultimately to stay at my job and to stay Nashville. And it was then that I decided, okay, if I'm going to stay here and really commit, I'd love to really make this record and try to do both things at the same time. I think I really struggle with this idea that I have to, you know, in order to be a real musician, I have to quit everything and just do this full time. And I guess ironically, I am trying to figure that out even now with leaving my job. But at the time, I felt compelled to stay at work and then pursue this record. So as I thought about who I wanted to work with, I really wanted to work with a female. That felt important for some reason. Um, I've done a few things with, um, male producers in the past. It was great, but I discovered that as a female, I, I learned that I would kind of cater towards like wanting men to approve me in ways that I found like this isn't probably healthy. So I thought, I wonder if I work with a female if I could have a more like a peer-to-peer relationship. So I am a big fan of Jess Rea's music and the way that she lives in the world. And I had, um, so Taylor, that we met, or that you saw at Cincinnati shows. She's a friend of Taylor's and a friend of Jess's, I should say. And so I just started asking. I reached out to Jess and said, are you open? So she produced Taylor's record Riverhouse, and I really loved that record, and I thought, I wonder if she could do this again for, for me. So I reached out to Jess, and in March of 2020, we had coffee in Nashville, like, 3 days before the world shut down, and discussed the opportunity, like, what would it look like to work together, what was my heart behind this, this record. And of course, at the time time. I had no idea what it would become, but I just knew I wanted to put something out. And so things kind of, yeah, took, you know, got pressed pause for, of course, like the whole world did. But in July of 2020, we decided to go for it. And Jess and her husband Kyle are based in Raleigh, and I decided— she offered to come to Nashville and produce it here, and I thought, you know what, I think it'll help me. I think there's such a pressure I feel in Nashville of like being surrounded by so many amazing gifted people. And I thought, I think this will make it more playful and fun for me if I can travel and leave this feeling of like I have to make a Nashville record and do this thing and go to Raleigh and just have fun and play with Jess. I think I'm trying to see creativity as a true like playground and not performance-based thing. So Jess really brought that out of me. She brought out like, who are you? She encouraged me to say, to really face the parts of my job and the parts that at first I felt kind of embarrassed by. Like, yeah, I do this full-time, but here's what I really want to do. And she said, no, you need to write from where you are and look at the people and places in front of you. So she gave me that permission and that charge, honestly, to write. And so that's kind of how the record came about. So Dale is in Raleigh. We had Dale play drums and Jess and Kyle played a lot of guitar. My friend Hitoshi flew up and played bass from Nashville, and Sarah Maria Blanton played violin. And we spent about a week in October of 2020— I'm like, what year is this? Yeah, 2020— make— starting the process of making the record.

So, um, yeah, well, that's great. It's, it's funny because I, I didn't know, uh, Dale had played on it until I think I had done a post that you were going to come on the podcast, and Dale was like, oh, and I played on that. And I was like, no kidding, really? Um, I've known Dale since, uh, probably the '90s, back when he was still with Sixpence, a long time ago. And just such an intelligent, talented musician. And, um, I met Jess briefly a couple years ago at, um, the Escape to the Lake— probably been 3 years ago now, because I think that's the last time that UTR Media did Escape to the Lake, and she was there playing with Taylor and Krista Wells and different ones. And she's, she's a great musician in, in her own right too. So a lot, a lot of talented females. You all have gotten together and done some really amazing work, so I'm glad that you have. Um, and I have to say, as much as I like the new album— I mean, I love the new album. I didn't mean to say like because I really do love it. Um, for me, it was great that evening just to be able to hear you play live too at the show that you did in Cincinnati. I love live music, um, and I haven't gotten to hear a lot of live music over the last— well, none of us have really, probably over the last year and a half or whatever. Um, and it was so refreshing getting to hear, um, some of the songs for the first time that night with just you and a piano piano. And then to be able to hear it on the album later after it released, really within about a week and a half I think was whenever the album actually came out, and to hear the contrast of the two. And I loved hearing it both ways, but I really enjoy just the singer-songwriter storyteller aspect of you sitting with your piano— well, it wasn't your piano, but you know, sitting at a piano because you couldn't haul that piano around with you. That was a pretty nice piano. But it was, it was great to get to hear you be able to share your heart and the stories along with the songs that night. And so it's great to be able to have the album as sort of a keepsake along with the, the songs and the stories now too. And you have a great way of sharing Um, again, I'm just going to call it your— what I'm going to say is your pastoral heart that I feel like comes through whenever you're sharing. Um, there was a song that stands out, and you'll have to forgive me because I, I'm terrible with song titles, and I'm so in the midst of all of my studies right now. I've got a lot of things going on, but there was a song that you sang about, um, holy time. Um, yeah, keeping time, keeping time, keeping time, that you sang that evening that I thought was just brilliant, that I thought would be so good for churches that actually focus on like the church calendar. And I was thinking like, here we are again going into like the season of Advent and how helpful it could be for like churches even that they might want to use that song for like Advent's a perfect time of year for like teaching churches about like the cycle of the church and what it means to like keep holy time. And, um, and I can't remember, I think it was, um, I think it was Abraham Heschel who said, um, you know, that one of the most blasphemous things that we can say is time is money. Uh, time is actually holy, is what he said. And it reminded me of that with, with that song in particular. So Anyway, sorry, I went off a little bit on, on a, on a sidebar there, but all that was to say, I really have been enjoying not only your music on the album, but I enjoy— it's just as good live. And, uh, so if people have a chance, all that is to say, to hear you in a live setting, it's just as good live as it is on the album. So either way that they get to hear you, it's worth showing up for a live show. Um, so I— as we start close our time together out on the podcast today. We're going to play another song here in a minute, but I do want to encourage people to, to go and find you on Spotify if they haven't done that already, or Apple Music, or one of the many ways that people listen to music now. Christmas is coming, so it's always a good time if you want to actually find music to share with people, and, and you can do that and share it as a Christmas gift gifts. So people listening out there, um, the gift of music, it's, it's a gift. You can give music to people, so make sure you do that. Um, and I just want to say how strongly I recommend Becca Jordan's music for people on your list this year. I, I would give it to people in the family or friends that may be looking for quality music that really speaks to the heart. And so with that in mind, um, let's talk about one of your your songs as we close today, because we are going to close with one. It's called All I've Got, and we're going to close the show with it today. What would you like to tell listeners about this closing song, All I've Got?

Sure. I guess this song is my, is my confession and my prayer to the Lord. The song idea actually came though from a family member who had gone to rehab and was struggling with some addiction issues. And so the idea of just watching their life, you know, really immediately change and shift was what kind of that first verse came to of like, I'm not the person I was before. Like, this is all kind of— my life is kind of imploding in front of me. And I think as a writer, of course, when you're writing, you're thinking, I'm writing this for someone else. As I began to write, I thought, "Oh no, I know this feeling too." You know, I haven't been to rehab, but I know what it feels like to be empty and to feel like my life isn't going in the direction that I pictured. And so, yeah, I think I've struggled too. I think that anger is a topic that's not talked about a lot, not only in the church, but specifically with women. I think it's talked a lot about with men, but as women, you know, how do we deal with our anger? What do we do with it? And so I think I've struggled with that in my life with the Lord of like, Can I tell the Lord that I'm angry? Can I— what do I do with this energy that I feel? And, um, and so I— it's, it's my journal entry of like, I, I really believe that the Lord wants it, that he wants all of me. And so that's— it's my song to say, this isn't a lot, but if you want who I am and what I have, then, then it's things like heartache, it's things like sorrow and anger and loneliness. Like, we come to the Lord not not put together, but truly at our end. And that threshing floor, I think, is where the Lord really begins to do His good work of really tending to our heartache. And so I would want listeners to be invited into that song as a means of encountering the Lord right where they are.

Yeah. Well, it's another great one. And we're going to close out our time together with the song "All I've Got Today." This is Becca Jordan's song, "All I've Got," from her new album, "Becoming Ordinary." It's a really great album from start to finish. And I just say to my guests every week, and I'm gonna say it to you, Becca Jordan, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week.

You're welcome. Thank you, Rick Lee James.

Walk to the middle, lay my heart on the threshing floor. I'm not the person that I was before. Everything I had, watched it burn to the ground. So I say a prayer as I bend down. Turn my heartache into laughter. Let my lonely become love. I give you my anger, may it become something good. It ain't a lot, but it's all I've got. Well, time, she passes so fast. Patiently, waiting on hope to grow. Sometimes it seems like the sun won't ever shine again. Here I pray out loud as I speak my fears. Turn my heart Heartache into laughter. Let my lonely become love. I give you my anger, may it become something good. It ain't a lot, but it's all I God of God. Turn my heartache into laughter. Let my lonely become love. I give you my anger, may it Become something good. It ain't a lot, but it's all I've got.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at RickLeeJames.com where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at RickLeeJames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.