Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast) - Episode 532 - Press Your Luck with JR. Forasteros
In this episode of the Voices In My Head podcast, host Rick Lee James interviews longtime friend J.R. Forasteros, a pastor, author, and podcaster, about his recent appearance on the revived game show Press Your Luck hosted by Elizabeth Banks. The conversation begins with a quick overview of J.R.'s personal background—his pastoral work, his book Empathy for the Devil, his board‑game hobby, his wife’s roller‑derby career, and his quest for the perfect brisket. They then dive into the history of Press Your Luck, describing its original 1983‑85 run, the iconic Whammies, the 2003 short‑lived Whammy reboot, and the 2018‑19 revival. J.R. explains how the show’s board algorithm was once cracked, leading to its cancellation, and why the newer CGI Whammies changed the show’s tone. The bulk of the episode details J.R.’s multi‑step journey to become a contestant: submitting an online application in 2018, a delayed response, a screening call about vaccination status, a series of video‑calls and a 3‑minute sizzle reel, multiple rounds of casting (ABC, Press Your Luck, Elizabeth Banks’ production company), a wardrobe‑selection process, and a boot‑camp in California where contestants are coached on strategy, interview talking points, and custom prize ideas. J.R. recounts the actual game, describing the trivia‑to‑spins mechanic, the loud studio environment, his strategic choices, the historic run of fellow contestant Carlo, and the emotional disappointment of not reaching the bonus round despite a signed Cocaine Bear poster from the host. He reflects on the intense but supportive production culture and the fleeting nature of the experience. The conversation concludes with a broader reflection: J.R. draws parallels between the contestant‑centric, story‑focused casting process and how churches might better hear and integrate individual stories into their mission, suggesting a more flexible, people‑first approach rather than a rigid, one‑size‑fits‑all model. He also shares his current writing outlets and upcoming projects. Overall, the episode offers a behind‑the‑scenes look at modern game‑show production, personal anecdotes about performance pressure, and a thoughtful analogy for community building.
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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast. Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host, Rick Lee James, and due to my busy schedule, it's been a couple weeks since since I've been with you, but I hope you have been enjoying the past episodes with Justin Gambino and Pamela Cooper White on our last episode. And this week is going to be a great episode. I am so excited to have our guest with us this week. J.R. Forasteros has been a friend for a while now, but he's a friend that I don't get to see very often because he lives in Texas. Let me tell you quickly about him. And then he has a fascinating story to share on today's show. JR pastors Catalyst Church in Dallas. He co-hosts the Fascinating Podcast. He wrote a book called Empathy for the Devil, which he has been on this show and we've talked about before. It's amazing. If you haven't read it, there will be links in the show notes for you to go get that. He's on a quest to smoke the perfect brisket. His wife Amanda skates for Assassination City Roller Derby as Mother Terrorista, which is also an amazing fact about his family. They are always looking for a new adventure, and their board game collection has been described as excessive and really fun. J.R. has bylines at Relevant, Think Christian, Real World Theology, and more. And what I wanted to talk about, especially with him today, is he was recently a contestant on the TV game show Press Your Luck with host Elizabeth Banks. So there's a lot to talk about today, and I'm gonna stop talking and just say, J.R. Foresteros, welcome back to Voices in My Head.
Rick, it's so good to be back. Uh, you, you're right, we have been friends for a while, which is old man code for more than a decade. So it's so good to get to talk with you face to face instead of just on Messenger or email or the normal ways we communicate.
You as well. I don't know if you remember the, the first time that we— I think maybe we met face face to face, or one of the first times you came over to my house and we recorded in the basement. And that's right, the studio has gotten better since then. And I've been recording my own music at home and even, even have a couple. I've never won a Grammy, but I have nominations now off the songs that I've recorded.
Amazing.
Which is like amazing. I definitely— the studio was not in that condition to do that quality of work when you were there, for sure. So, but I think your presence blessed it. That's what it was.
That must be— that's the only explanation. Yeah. Can't be all of your hard work and talent. Yeah.
Well, well, listeners won't be able to— yeah, listeners won't be able to tell it because this is an audio-only podcast, but we are on Zoom today and it's so good to see your face because I feel like we are getting to have that face-to-face conversation. And you have an amazing story to tell. And I really want my listeners to be able to hear it. I was listening to your podcast. Where you got to tell the story, and it was so much fun to hear. And I had no idea what the process was for a person to get onto a TV game show. And I know that you are a game person, to say the least. And this has been one of your childhood dreams. So as we get started today, I know we could talk about your, your brisket quest, we could talk about your wife's time in roller derby, we could talk about your board game collection, your book Empathy for the Devil, we could talk about all your podcasting and so so many different endeavors. But today, we want to talk about Press Your Luck. So tell us first, what is your history with, with Press Your Luck, the game show? Because it's been around in different iterations for quite some time.
Yeah, this is actually the 40th anniversary of the original air date of Press Your Luck. So it was on, it was on from '83 to '85. So 3 years. And I was actually gonna ask you, did you watch it back in the day?
I remember watching it, not, not like religiously or anything, but I remember the animated characters. I forget what they're called.
The little whammies. The whammies.
That's right. The whammies that would come out. And, you know, that was probably my favorite part as a kid.
I remember unquestionably, that's the best part of the show. No doubt about it.
And so still pretty fun watching them today.
So for people who don't know, because I found this, people either know the game show and love the game show, or they've never heard of it.
Okay.
And it only ran for 3 years in the '80s. Uh, all that story is crazy, and I'll tell that in a second. But it's not like Jeopardy! or Wheel of Fortune or some of these other game shows that have, you know, these legacy runs where we've been with them through multiple hosts and they've always been on the air. I mean, 3 years is not long, and particularly talking about in the '80s, right? But yeah, it's you play the game in 2, 2 rounds, and they each start with trivia questions that are designed to get you what they call spins. So there's, you know, 3 questions in the first round, 4 in the second round. If you buzz in and answer the question and you get it right, you get 3 spins after. So like if you and I are playing and they say, you know, what is 2 2? And Rick rings in and says 4, then the host says, okay, J.R., is it 3, 4, or 5? And I say, yeah, it's 4. You know, then Rick gets 3 spins because he rang in. I only get 1 spin because I had the multiple choice. But again, the trivia is not— it's not Jeopardy!, right? It's not designed to stump you. Right. Though in my episode, I got stumped quite a few times. It's designed— it's designed to get everyone spins because the main part of the game is what they call the big board, which is where the podium spins around and you have this big board up there with all these squares on it. And when it's your turn to spin, all these squares start lighting up in a random pattern, and even what's in the square changes. It's either a dollar amount or some kind of goofy prize. Like the night we played, there was like limes for life or skydiving in the Grand Canyon or front row tickets to a Madonna concert. You have no idea what it's gonna be, right? A vending machine.
Yeah.
Or the whammy, which, as you described, these little very poorly animated— I call them sort of Tasmanian devils with a cape on.
Yeah.
You know, and so, you know, the boards go in, it's making the doo doo doo doo doo sound. And then the contestants— again, I think that part of the fun of the show is they're talking to the board. So they're saying, all right, you know, I see those limes for life. You know, I want to— I want to make me some guacamole. Give me those limes for life. Give me that big money. No whammies. And then you push the button and say stop. And whatever it lands on, that goes into your bank. So it's pretty straightforward. Yeah, the whammies are like hitting bankrupt in Wheel of Fortune, right? So you get a whammy, it takes all your money. But there's this hilariously, again, badly animated, very silly sort of cartoon where a whammy comes out on the bottom of your screen and does something goofy, like is an opera singer or is teaching a classroom of baby whammy whammies or what, you know, again, there's a million different whammies. And then they're usually pretty rude, which is funny. I think as a kid that's why I liked them because they were so funny.
Yeah.
And that's basically it. They especially back in the '80s, that was— you just played 2 rounds and whoever had the most money won.
Yeah.
These days they've added a thing where whoever wins the most money goes to a bonus round where it's just them and they get to, you know, play for big prizes, custom prizes, all that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, it was— it ran for 3 years. And do you know why it went off the air?
I don't. Uh-uh.
So back in the day, they used an algorithm to decide how the board was going to light up. And there was a guy that just sat down and watched every episode of Press Your Luck and he figured out the algorithm.
Oh, wow.
So again, it's not cheating. It's like counting cards, right? It's like, well, he just used all the information available and he went on the show and had a 3-day run where he just— I mean, he— whatever he decided he wanted on the board, he just knew how long to wait. Until the algorithm would give it to him. And so he walked away with a lot of money.
Wow.
And they had to shut the show down because of that.
Oh my goodness. That's pretty— that's a pretty smart fellow, though, to be able to figure that out.
I mean, we're talking pre-VCRs. Yeah, right. We're talking pre-computers and AI that— I mean, maybe this dude worked at IBM or something, but I don't think so. Right. You're right. I think he was just like some kind of crazy genius. So, so anyway, it came back. In— it came back briefly in 2003. It was called Whammy, and they made the Whammies all like CGI and like nice looking, which I think actually hurt the show. I mean, it only ran for a season, right? But the Whammies are mean. Yeah, like they make fun of you, they take your money. Uh, and so I think, I think having them be crudely animated actually works in the favor of the show because you can laugh at them even as they're being mean. You know, and, and making them look too good, I think, actually hurts, hurts what the show is trying to do, which is ultimately celebrate these contestants. And they want to be a feel-good game show, right? And, and the whammies can't be, you know, if the whammies are too hateable, uh, then, then that, that undercuts that. So it was only on for a year in 2003, and then it came back in 2018 or 2019, I think, with, as you mentioned, Elizabeth Banks as the host. Her production company is the one that brought it back and works with ABC. And I mean, I was sitting in the living room with my wife. We had just pulled up Hulu and it was the banner, you know, Press Your Luck with Elizabeth Banks. And I shrieked.
And what year would you say this was?
It was either 2018 or 2019.
Okay. So it's been a few years ago.
Been a few years. This, this what's airing right now is its fifth season.
Oh, okay.
So 10 episodes per season. They're very short seasons, but yeah. So my wife looked at me and she was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, Press Your Luck is back. And she was one of those people that had never heard of it.
Hadn't seen it.
Okay. Hadn't seen it. And so I was like, all right, well, cancel our plans. Like, whatever else. Like, this is, this is what we're doing immediately. And in her, to her credit, like, she also fell in love with it right away. Like, it's just such a fun show. Yeah. So, so that was kind of like, that's kind of like the history of the show.
Okay.
And like how it got back to where it is today.
Well, and I was just gonna say too, before we get into like the process of how you even tried to get on the show. You're right. It's one of those shows that like, we don't watch it all the time. But we're always pulled in like when we pull it up on Hulu or something. And then it's like, it's like, you know, before we know it, we're 6 episodes in. We're like, oh, we gotta see what, you know, like, yeah.
So does your son enjoy it?
He does. Yeah, he likes to watch it too. Although right now he's into video games. So when I told him, I was like, Daddy has a friend on TV. And he came in long enough just to go, cool, and then he left it, you know, he was in the middle of, uh, Roblox.
Put in the, uh, the bare minimum enthusiasm required by that sort of scene. Yeah, yeah.
But, but when he stops to actually watch it, yes, he does. And I think he loves the whammies the best too. That's kind of always the thing as a kid, you know, you're—
I mean, they are, they are a real genius part of that show. And I think the show does a lot of things well, but that is, that is certainly a piece of them that is just really, really terrific.
Well, well, JR, let's, let's talk about this, this application process. Like, how did you even start? Because I, I know you love the show. I know you're a big game enthusiast anyway, and this is probably like a big dream to be able to get on and play. But how did this all come to be?
You're right. I mean, I watched several of my cousins actually, when I posted, when I was finally allowed to post I was going to be on the show, they all replied, oh my gosh, I remember watching this with Grandma as a kid. And that's it. Like, that's, that's how we all got into it, right? So way back in the day, I always thought, like, how cool would it be if I got to go on Pressure Luck and get a whammy? You know, that was, that was all I wanted. And so, yeah, when it came back, we were watching it and I was like, man, I would just love to go on the show. And my wife Amanda said, well, why don't you apply? And I was like, I don't know, how do you even do that? Well, you know, today, unlike the '80s, we live in an age where we have machines that we can ask such such incredible questions. And so I just, I went to, I went to ABC's website and went to the games page and there's, there's a big button that says apply to be on Press Your Luck. And I was like, oh, okay, that's easy. So back in, back in 2018 or 2019 or whatever, that first time it came on, that was when I applied. I filled out the application. You have to you know, fill out a bunch of information, but then you also have to record a little video of yourself so they can see. Yeah. And I've learned the application process, what they're looking for is energy, enthusiasm. Like they want to see kind of how you're going to be on camera. So if you're like, uh, yeah, I think like it would be pretty cool to be on, like, you know, you don't have a chance. Uh, so.
So you kind of got to be camera ready, you know, like, like knowing that you're going on a TV show.
You know, and I would say, yeah, I mean, you don't have to have like professional hair and makeup or anything like that, but you need, you need to be loud and excited. Like they need to think that like you're going to get on that stage and be a little bit unhinged.
Enthusiasm. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.
Uh, that said, I, that was in 20, I think 2018 when I applied. I did not hear from them until February of this year.
Oh wow, there's a lot happened in the world between, uh, between then and now, that's for sure.
Literally every season we'd watch it and someone would be like, JR, you'd be so good on this show. And I'm like, yeah, I applied, like, I guess, I guess they didn't want me, you know?
Yeah.
Um, and so literally Friday, since I'm a pastor like you, Fridays and Saturdays are my day off, like kind of my weekend. So there's a Friday, my wife's at work, I'm just sitting on the couch like hanging out, and I get a random text on my phone, and it's like, hi, I'm in a— I'm in a casting associate from Press Your Luck. Has anyone reached out to you, and are you vaccinated? And I stared at my phone, and I was like, is, is this a scam? Like, but then, but then I was like, well, how would they know? Yeah, I applied to be on Press Your Luck. Like, that's— that would be like, that would be like a very low return scam, I think. And they didn't ask me for my social or anything. They just asked me like, has anyone talked to me and am I vaccinated? I don't care who knows I'm vaccinated. Like I put it all over my social media. It's like, whatever.
Right.
Yeah. So I texted it back and I was like, uh, hi, no one has reached out and I'm vaccinated and boosted.
Yeah.
And they replied and said, can we do a phone call in 30 minutes?
Oh wow. No pressure. Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Right. I was like, yes. Okay. I guess this is real. And sure enough. So. That was the first of probably 6 different people I talked to during the casting process. And again, casting associate, right? So this is a, this is an entry-level casting person at the casting company that they contract to get people into the final round of casting at ABC.
Okay. Right.
So this is like, this is like way— this is way outside at this point. This is the— this is one of the people who is fielding the 16,000 applicants that they have for this season. Wow. Right.
What a job.
Right. And so he gets on the phone with me. We talk for probably 10 minutes and he says, I love your energy.
Right?
Like, that's what he's talking about. Yeah. He actually said he first— he was— he said, okay, J.R., I see here that you applied. And he's like, In, in 2018? Is that, is that right? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, and nobody's talked to you? Wow. I just thought you didn't want me. And he was like, oh, all right, okay. And then he said, he said at the end of our conversation, he said, well, I'm gonna be honest with you, uh, very few of these straight white men that we talk to have this kind of energy, and it's kind of a bummer because we really need big energy for this show. And they're all— and I was like, it's like, you know, man, it's that toxic masculinity got us down. Gotta tell us we're not allowed to be excited about stuff. So he laughed From there, I had to— he set up a 20-minute, and it was very specific, 20-minute hard stop video call with a casting producer at the casting company. He had me answer some trivia, or he had me react. So he was like, pretend you just got this question wrong. I had to be like, oh, you know, and pretend you just got this question right. Okay, now spin the board. Like, so I had to like, just now I'm acting right now. Yeah. And my audition. And that was— that 20-minute video call was edited down to a 3-minute sizzle reel. I'm using their words, not mine. Okay. And I don't know how many sizzle reels they had, but all of them were passed. So then they went through this whole huge process that I was not a part of. They were sent first to Press Your Luck, who I guess, you know, winnowed them down a little bit. Then Press Your Luck sent them to ABC. ABC had their say. ABC sent them to Elizabeth Banks's production company. They had their say, and then they were sent back to Press Your Luck, who then like narrowed it down to 100 candidates.
Wow.
And so from there— and they're again, they're only filming 10 episodes a season. There's 3 contestants per episode. So 30 is the magic number, right?
Yeah.
So from that point, we're in the hands of the Pressure Luck people. So that's where, that's where I have to do a big— they're like, they're like, now pretend you're on the show, you know, get your— get, you know, make sure you're dressed nicely. You have to be standing. They said make sure all of the devices in your house that use internet are off except for the one you're doing the video call on. And then we were with two other potential contestants and a producer, and we literally just had to play the— like pretend we're playing the game.
Oh, gotcha.
So that was the first time we met one of the executive producers. His name was John, who was— but the two executive producers, John and Jeffrey, were amazing. Everyone was amazing. Like they have such a good culture at this show. But, you know, he pretended to be Elizabeth Banks and was doing all the questions that we had to like fake that we were hitting a button on Zoom and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. And then from there they said, you know, we'll let you know. And so after that was when they ran us through a background check. We had to send in wardrobe pictures. So they gave us like some strict wardrobe guidelines based on like what's good for the camera. So, you know, we couldn't wear stripes or patterns because the camera didn't like that. And we couldn't wear certain colors because those would either clash with or get lost in the set. So we had to like choose out of our wardrobe and send in 5 different wardrobe options, like just take pictures of us and stuff and send them all in and all of these kinds of things. That's also when we're doing interviews with— so we were assigned producers at that point. So I was assigned producers named Kyle and Emily who were— again, I could just talk about them forever. They're so awesome. And we're doing conversations with them that are both about our story, which includes everything from what Elizabeth's going to ask us when she interviews us to if we make it to the bonus round, what are our custom prizes that we're going to ask for? They give 5 custom prizes in the bonus round. I mean, they put them on the board and you can spin and hit them. But we had to come up with a list of 15 to 20. And then even they don't know what those are going to be. Like the ABC prize, there's like a whole prize division where people like put these prize packages together and figure it all out and what the cost, you know. So they don't even know until the night of the show, like what's going to be on there. You know.
Well, that's really— I was just going to say that's really fascinating too, that they kind of take into consideration what the guests might be interested in. Because like for me, a lifetime of limes would probably be like 3 limes because I just don't use it very much.
So I want to distinguish there's the, there's the, the prizes in the front half of the game, like the limes that has nothing to do with us.
Okay.
That is literally like the woman who won the episode that aired the week that we're recording. One of the things she won in the front game was $20,000 worth of garden gnomes. Oh, garden gnomes. And she was like, she was like, yeah, I don't, I don't want— I mean, I don't remember what the number was. It's like it was like 1,000 garden gnomes or something like that. Whereas I would be like, I know what every single person I know is getting for Christmas for the rest of my life, right? Like I would, I would abuse that so hard.
Or you could, you could have that one house in the neighborhood that's like, who's that weirdo that has 1,000 notes?
Yeah, exactly right. So yeah, so that like, that's the front half of the game. Nothing to do with us. It's just like whatever weird prizes they can come up with. It's the back half of the game and the bonus round where they do the customized prizes.
Okay.
You know, so it could be like if Rick goes on, one of the things they would definitely want to talk about is you're recording, you know, in your music making, all that kind of stuff. And they would just say like, okay, if you had $300,000 to build a home studio, what would it look like?
Oh wow.
Yeah, right. And you could just— you would tell them, you would say, oh, it'd be this and this and this. And they would be like, literally like, make, make the wishlist, give us like the product numbers.
Yeah.
Like they're like, just do it, right?
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah. So, so they told us to think of prizes that are around like $5,000 to $8,000, prizes that are around like $80,000, and prizes that are like $200,000 to $300,000. Okay, very good. So So again, that's all the producer is talking to us about, you know, what do we want? Why do we want that? Because again, I think the thing that this show does really well and it is what sets it apart from a lot of the other shows is they make it very contestant-centric.
Okay.
In the front game, they kind of want all 3 of the contestants to be fun people to cheer for. But when it goes into the bonus game, it's just that person that goes there and Elizabeth, and then they bring out, you know, 1 to 3 supporters.
Okay.
So usually that's a parent or a partner or maybe a kid or maybe some friends, right? You just, you just, it's kind of whoever they decide is going to be good. They, they approved just Amanda for me. So if I had gone to the bonus round— spoiler, I did not go to the bonus round. I guess I assumed we were spoiling my episode.
That's fine. Yeah, you can watch it on Hulu. It's a lot of fun to watch. That's right. Yeah.
So yeah, so, so even Amanda— so I even Amanda had to do an interview with the producers where they're just saying, you know, tell us about JR. How did you guys meet? What do you, you know, what do you like about him? Because they are working to create a narrative, okay, that can be compressed into about 20 seconds that's going to make me likable. Yeah, right, because that's about how much time they have, right? Tell me about it. You know, these people are all-stars. I told you, Rick. That's great.
Oh man.
And then, yeah, finally, after all of that, which, which again, that was— I told you I had my first Got my first text in February. That was early March by the time I finally had all that happen. And then they said, okay, you'll hear from us. As you know, I'm a pastor, so my schedule is a little flexible.
Yeah.
My wife, uh, she, she works at a hospital. She's a social worker. And so she had to— they usually have to submit their PTO requests the month before. And so as, as February is winding down and she knows we have a potential March show date, she said, you know, I gotta ask off, I gotta ask off. And I— and they just kept saying, yeah, we don't know yet, sorry, sorry, sorry. So she actually told her boss what was going on and said, hey, I just may not know and I may just need to ask off. And her boss was like, that's the coolest thing I've ever heard, like, don't worry, we'll make it work.
Yeah.
So, so they were incredibly gracious to make it so that when we did finally get an air date and they said, okay, we're flying you out to California, I think we left on Sunday and came back on a Thursday.
So, so I just want to like— that's cool. Like, they fly you out, like, and then they put you up when you're there, and like, it's kind— it's so— it's basically an expenses-free trip, if nothing else, to California. So that's pretty cool for you and your wife. That's amazing.
That's right. They put us in a— they put us in a very nice hotel. I mean, not like a 5-star or anything, but it was, it was, you know, I wasn't worried that we were gonna get STDs or something like that, right? It's a very nice hotel, uh, very pleasant, very pleasant stay, uh, and then they gave us a per diem each, um, for food, and then, uh, and that was pretty much it. So we were there, we got in Sunday evening, and then, uh, Monday all day I had what they called boot camp, where they basically teach you how to play the show and coach you and all that. Can you get to actually push a buzzer? It's not— you're not on the one in this on the stage, but it's, it's, you know, and there's a, there's a board that's projected from a laptop, but it's, you're spinning the big board and okay and all that. Um, yeah, there were 12 of us I think at that boot camp, so they divided us into 4 groups of 3 that were like our, our fellow contestants for the time we were there. And yeah, um, that's where they start coaching us on, you know, when, when you talk with Elizabeth, here's what, here's what she's going to ask you, uh, and it's, it's, here's what she's going to ask you because here's what we want you to say when she tees you up, right? These are not just Elizabeth making up random questions. It's like they, they have written a script of what they want us to talk about.
Okay.
Uh, you know, so, okay, we want to make sure this person talks about their grandkids because if they make it to the bonus round, that's one of their custom prizes. Or, you know, they wanted to make sure I talked about roller derby and being a pastor, uh, you know, and all that kind of stuff. So, um, yeah, they— when Elizabeth says, now what, you know, what do you do for fun? That's not just her making casual conversation, right? There has been something in, in the process of the story that someone has said that they want to be queued up about. Sure. If that makes sense. So yeah, all that. And that was like an 8-hour process. I mean, it was— we were there all day and then they told— here's the other crazy thing, Rick. At every step along the way, they kept saying, Now we want to be clear, this does not mean you're on the show. It's a good sign. It's a good sign, but it doesn't mean you're on the show. So when they told us they were flying us out to California, now we just want to be clear, this is not a guarantee that you're on the show. It's a good sign. It means you're probably on the show, but you're not actually on the show until you're on stage and the cameras are rolling. Okay. We get to bootcamp. They're like, welcome to bootcamp. Woo!
Push your luck.
It's so great. I just want to be clear. Does not mean you're on the show. It's a good sign. It means you're probably going to be on the, you know.
Yeah.
So, I mean, and there was one guy in our group that— so, so they called me that night after boot camp and they said it was my producer, Kyle. He said, hey, congratulations, you're on. Your air date is Wednesday. Here's what time you need to be in the lobby of the hotel, blah, blah, blah. So we had Tuesday all day, just, you know, free. So we get up Tuesday morning, get to go out to go out to breakfast, and one of the guys from our boot camp is hanging out in the lobby. And I was like, oh, hey man, you getting ready to go film? He goes, no, they sent me home.
Oh wow. Oh, oh man, that's disappointing.
Yeah, can you imagine? Yeah, but they weren't kidding. Just because you go to boot camp, right, just because they flew you out doesn't mean that you're on the show.
Wow.
So, so we were kind of prepped, you know. You always, you're always kind of holding that, like, I don't want to get like fully invested and excited. Yeah. Because they keep telling you, like, just, just so you know.
Yeah. Um, but obviously I made it on the show, so I, I would be the same way until I actually saw it airing on television, like in, in my home. And, and until I actually saw it, I would still be like, I'm not gonna be on, I don't think they're gonna, you know, like I'm just like, well, I gotta tell you, you know, it was originally supposed to air in July.
And it got pushed because of the strikes. And so that was a little bit agonizing.
I bet.
Come on. Because by this point, a lot of people had heard the rumor that I was going to be on, you know, but we still couldn't really publicly talk about it.
Well, well, the only thing I can relate to that kind of like what that kind of letdown might be like is, is having songs pitched to pretty big name artists and those artists getting back to me and being like, we're going to record it, it's going to go on the album. And then like, it's going to be our— like, I was even told one time by the Gettys, Keith and Kristin Getty, like, this is going to be our like title cut. We're going to use it at every concert. It's going to be the one that like we close the show out with. Like, it's going to be big. And then they backed out on it. And it was so— it was like, like, so I went from being like, oh man, this is amazing, to like, oh, never mind. So I know, I know. Yeah. And that's— yeah, that's just sort of been like the Christian music industry. So I can imagine how even more so when you're in, in like a big production on NBC, or is it NBC or ABC?
ABC.
ABC, which— so that's Disney itself, you know, that runs that whole thing. So just hearing about all these layers is amazing to me, like to think the hoops you have to go through. So yeah, please continue.
Well, so I want to say something about that. Because I, like you, I was astounded. It does make sense once you understand their logic, which is this is, this is a primetime hour-long game show.
Mm-hmm.
The thing that's going to set us apart is that we're contestant-centric and we have 20 seconds to get people to like these people other than how they behave. Right? So that's why we're casting for energy and enthusiasm. That's why we're working so hard. Now, it is only 10 episodes. And I got my first call from a contractor 6 weeks before I filmed, right? So the people who are working on this show, this is not their full-time job, right? This is 2 months, maybe. So they're doing all kinds of other stuff. And my producer Kyle, one of his other jobs is working on Wayne Brady's Let's Make a Deal. Okay. Which is a daytime, 5 days a week talk show or a game show, which has, I don't know, I've watched it a couple of times, right? It has like, I don't know, 5 or 10 contestants every episode, right? Where he brings them out and they make a deal or not and whatever. And so I asked him about that and he said, yeah, listen, that's a daytime TV show. These contestants have maybe 10 minutes of screen time and then they leave and they're never seen again. It's 5 days a week. It's, it's, I think he said it's like, you know, 45 or 50 weeks a year. He was like, we don't, we don't spend hardly any time casting those. Yeah, right. Like it's, it's just get them up there. If they can put a sentence together and they know how to smile, like it's fine. I'm paraphrasing, Kyle. I'm sorry. I know it's a little bit more intricate than that, but he just said that the difference between casting for a show like that and casting for Press Your Luck is night and day, you know, where they are just like, super, super, super hardcore about the contestants they bring on for Press Your Luck, right? And it's because in their mind, and I don't think they're wrong about this, that's what makes or breaks the show. Right? Is people, people want to stick around and root for people.
Yeah. And it's, and it's a, it's a big deal. Like, and it's, it's fun to watch. It was fun to watch you on the show with the other contestants. And I I, you have a great energy about you and you get so excited about the games anyway. So I, it totally makes sense that they picked you for sure. Um, but what, what I kind of wondered about is it can be one thing to like be playing a game at home. Let's say you had the Press Your Luck home version. All right.
Right.
And you're just doing it around the table and no pressure. What is it like when you're, cuz I've been on camera a few times and something changes about when you're on camera. You're like, And then you realize the number of people that are watching you. And like, what does that do to you? Like nerves? Is like, is it a help to you? Do you really struggle with anxiety in those moments? Or what was it like for you being in that place? Because I know you're no stranger to being in front of people week after week in church, but suddenly you're on ABC, on camera, with under the lights, with the loud crowd behind you. And I mean, just tell us what that's like for you.
Well, you know, I used to be in a metal band, so that, that actually prepared me than probably, uh, being a preacher. But no, I mean, it, it does change things. I will say, Rick, and you're gonna think I'm crazy, but having Elizabeth Banks out there helps a ton.
Really? Okay.
Um, and that is, that is not because she is a celebrity, it's because she's Elizabeth Banks. And I'm sure— I mean, no, I know in your, in your career you've met plenty of celebrities journeys. And you know that star power thing that they talk about, like, that those, those people just have, that when you meet them you're like, oh yeah, I, I get it. Like, this person, whoa. Yeah, like, she has that. But she has— I'm, I'm guessing— I was gonna say betting, but we're Nazarene— so I'm guessing that this is not just something that is innate to her. I'm guessing that is a skill that she has honed as a host.
Mm-hmm.
So, so they, you know, they bring us out on the platform. The crowd is filing in and John, one of the two executive producers, comes out. He's like, hey guys. I mean, he's, he is just like enthusiasm for days, right? Hey guys, you guys ready? He's so excited. We're like, yeah, you know, he goes, okay, Elizabeth's about to come out. She's going to come by and shake each of your hands, introduce yourselves, and she's going to go backstage. And we're going to get the show going. And I was like, oh no, here's, here's where I pee my pants and just like pass out, you know, like I'm about to meet Elizabeth Banks. And she comes out and you're like, oh, it's like the halo of light and the angelic chorus and all, you know. But then she comes up to you and shakes your hand. She's like, hi, I'm Elizabeth. Like, yeah, we— literally everyone here knows who you are. But she has some ability to just diffuse a lot of the anxiety, and she, she exudes this like warmth. And I mean, the best word for it is chill, where she's just like, hey, hey, you ready to have some fun? Like, we're, we're some friends hanging out, having fun, you know. And you're— nothing could be further from the truth. We're not friends. Like, I love that she's nice, but like, I don't have her phone number. I'm not sending her a Christmas card, you know.
Yeah.
And we're on a, like you said, national televised game show. It's going to be all crazy. Like, nothing could be further from this like energy that she's exuding, and yet she just makes it like really chill. Yeah, you know, and then in the game when she's asking the questions and talking back and forth, it's the same. She has just this like playful confidence that makes it so easy to just follow her lead, you know. Uh, so that really helps a ton, like the tone that she sets just with presence and her poise, uh, really made it better.
Yeah.
That said, what people don't realize is, particularly when you're spinning, the crowd is deafening. Like, the reason it sounds like everyone is shouting when we're spinning is because we are screaming at the top of our lungs.
Wow.
Because we can't even hear ourselves. Wow.
Uh, and again, So did you have like earpieces where you could hear what was being said?
So there was a speaker.
Okay.
So you— what you can't see that, you know, the podium looks like a solid slant up to the contestants. There's actually a break there where there's, there's a little video screen. So anytime there's a whammy, we can see what the whammy is.
Oh, okay.
We can see each of our scores so we can kind of see where we are in real time. And then there's a speaker so that we can hear Elizabeth.
With. Okay, very good.
And the other contestants, but mainly, you know, Elizabeth, Elizabeth's the one they want to make sure you can hear, right? Obviously during the trivia everyone's quiet, right? Um, but yeah, but it's during the, uh, during the spinning and stuff, it's, it's deafeningly loud. And that's one thing, so there's, there are a bunch of us that were all at boot camp together that are all in a text thread together now. We're all texting about now that our episodes are airing.
Yeah.
Uh, and, and after when we were all kind of debriefing you know, and we weren't even allowed to talk about who won or lost yet or any of that kind of stuff. Like, so this is literally like, you know, once we've all gotten back home in March, one of the first things that we said was that none of us were prepared for how loud the crowd is. And every single person was like, yeah, like it's bananas. And you would just never know that from watching the episode. But again, it's like, I mean, like when you crowd surf at your concerts, right?
Yeah, I do that all the time. Yeah. Nazarene churches are known for that.
That's right. That's right. That's right. It's, it's the It is the kind of— it's concert kind of energy, right? It's the kind of cheering that like juices you up. It's not that— it's not— you don't feel like people are like booing for you or something like that. So, so that really helped a lot as well. But I got to tell you, in the second round, especially when I, when I buzzed in 3 times in a row and got 3 questions wrong in a row, I was feeling pretty dumb and knew I knew this was going to be on television, knew I had missed one question in particular about Puff Daddy. Yeah, because I didn't let Elizabeth finish the question. Well, and I panicked.
Yeah, I think you need to, to explain that one because, okay, you're thinking on that one was, was like, after I heard you explain it before, like, that totally makes sense. And yet again, it's all this pressure, like you're in that moment. Yeah, everything's on you.
So again, when you— when I'm up there, at least, I don't know how the other contestants work, but when I'm up there, I'm thinking strategy the whole time, right? Because I want to get to the big bonus round. That's all you want to do. And that's what they tell you. They're like, you're playing the front game to get to the back game. So I hit the first, I hit the first round out of the park because they coach you. They say what you want, if it's at all possible, your goal in the first round is to end the first round with the most money because that means you get to spin last. And that means like when it finally gets to you, you know what you need to do, if you need to pass your spins or if you need to keep going or whatever. So that literally is how they coach you. Right? And I did that. I ended the first round with a little over $8,000. My, my other two contestants had a little over $5,000. I was like, okay, you know, stage one complete, now stage two. So again, all I'm trying to do here is get spins and keep them from getting spins. But because you're, you're rewarded for ringing in, of course, they always write at least one question that if you don't wait for the whole question, is going to be tricky.
Yeah, right.
So, so it could be like, uh, um, he was the first president of the United States, and I ring in and I'm like, George Washington. And she goes, okay, I'm gonna finish the question. Yeah, he was the first president of the United States. Who was George Washington's famous wife? Is it Rick Lee James, George Washington, Martha Washington, or Betsy Ross? And then I'm like, wow, you know, so it's like, and again 3 out of 4 questions I could have buzzed in and been right, right? But they always have at least one that's tricky like that. You gotta wait. So as I'm playing strategy, I'm trying to think like, okay, I want to buzz in early, but I gotta wait long enough to make sure that it's not a trick question.
Exactly.
So she goes in and she's like, we know him as Puff Daddy. And in my head I'm like, Sean Combs. She goes, now he's, uh, then he was Diddy, then he, you know, she's going on. I'm like, Sean Combs, Sean Combs, Sean Combs. I'm, you know, ready over the buzzer. And then she goes, But what is this? Rap Moguls. And then I'm like, ring in.
Uh-huh.
And she started to say another word, uh-huh, which turns out to have been real last name.
Yeah.
I, I, and I don't know how this happened, but like you said, pressure in the moment. I thought she was gonna say the word producer. Yeah. So I start panicking, right? I'm like, who is, who is Sean Combs's producer? Like, Sean Combs is the producer. Like, that's what he Does. Like, no one produces Puff Daddy. Puff Daddy produces Puff. But like, now I'm on the timer because I've rung in, and what I should have done was just not, not try to outsmart the question and just said Combs, right? Instead, what I did was, oh no, I did the thing I was afraid I was gonna do, which was ring in on a trick question. So I was literally, my head was just like, name another New York rapper.
Yeah.
And I was like, I don't know, Jay-Z, right? And she's like, I'm going to finish the question. And even like, I was like, that's got to be wrong, right? Like, there's no— and so yeah, she, she finished the question. I was like, oh, I'm going to look like such a fool on that. Like, okay, the white pastor from Texas didn't know that Sean Combs' last name was— that his name wasn't Sean Jay-Z, right? Like, give me a break. So yeah, I got— I rightfully got tons of crap for, for that, missing that question.
So.
But, but that was— by then I had missed 3 of the 4 questions and had zero spins. Yeah, right. So thankfully I did get the last question, but, you know, otherwise I would have had no spins going into the last round.
Well, and then there was this, this part on the show where the, the, the gentleman at the opposite end of you, Carlo, Carlo, he just got so many right in a row, like it was just over and over.
So that was his free spins. Yeah. During the big spinoff. Yeah.
So, and so it wasn't getting whammies and it just seemed like it went on forever. And my wife and I are like, when are they going to let J.R. do it again? Because it's like a long stretch.
It was an incredibly long stretch and it was literally historic. Like, Carlo is now the person in Press Your Luck history who has won the most money in the front game.
Hmm.
Wow. So, I mean, literally, it was a historic run.
So, so you literally were on a historic episode, correct? That's amazing.
And just like Jeopardy!, right? Press Your Luck does a bigger second round. So just like, you know, Double Jeopardy!, all the dollar values are higher. Same thing with Press Your Luck. There's 4 squares in the back or in the second round that are the big squares. One of them is the new one this season, the Big 4-0, which is celebrating the 40 years of Press Your Luck, where it's 40 of something. It's going to be nice something. They're like, it could be 40 Hot Wheels. It's not 40 Hot Wheels, right? It's going to—
although I wouldn't mind 40 Hot Wheels. That's all right.
So no, but that's not going to be a lot of money. Like when we were practicing, you know, in the boot camp, several different people hit it and it was a 40-day cruise. Wow. Or a 40-day road trip on I-40 in an RV.
Yeah. All right.
So I mean, like big stuff like that that's worth like tens of thousands of dollars. So the Big Four is one you want to hit. There's the vehicle. There's always a vehicle. And it's usually a car. In my episode, it was a boat that Sumati won. Uh, that's usually worth anywhere from $40,000 to $60,000. So again, another one that's really nice to hit.
Yeah.
There is the double your money space, which again, depending on how much you have, can be really nice.
Yeah.
And then there's the take the lead space, which as long as you're not in the lead, puts you in the lead by a dollar.
Yeah.
Uh, so I go last, right? I'm spinning last. That's the, the strategy I wanted. Carlo and Sumati only have 4 spins each. That's not a ton, you know, but then they just keep getting free spins and one by one, you know, Sumati hits the boat and then passes her spins to Carlo. Carlo gets Take the Lead. So now they both jump up. I think the boat was like $40-some thousand, right? So they both jump up $40,000-plus. And so that's off the board. The Take the Lead's off the board. Now I'm like, well, I've got double your money in Big 4-0. And then, you know, the last— Carlos, last spin, he hits the Big 4-0. And again, it was worth— it was 40 nights at the Ritz-Carlton, right? So that was, I think, another like $40,000 or something like that. And so even before that moment, even before he hit the Big 4-0, I don't know if you can see this when they're cutting around to the group shots, but like it had become clear to me that I was not going to win. I was like, okay, like, like, again, barring barring multiple miraculous instances that have already all been used up on Carlo and Sumati, like, I'm out of this game.
Yeah.
So I kind of shifted in my head. I was like, all right, I need to shift away from like, I'm gonna try to win, to just like, I want to be the biggest cheerleader for these other two that I can.
Yeah. You know? Yeah.
And both of them, every time they got a spin, it was hard for them to decide what I do, you know? Do I, do I press my luck? Do I pass it?
Yeah.
What they don't show— and Carl, sorry I'm putting you on blast here— but like, what they had to edit out was that every time Carlo had to decide to spin, he deliberated for a minimum of literally 5 minutes. Oh wow. Yeah, it was, um, and, and Elizabeth kept saying, you know, Carlo, take all the time you need, we need a decision. And again, you know, he's sitting on $70,000, $80,000, $90,000. And yeah, that, like you said, he's still not hitting these whammies.
So wow. Well, I thank you so much for like even just sharing the behind the scenes. I want to encourage people to actually go watch the episodes so they can see all this. But you were an excellent cheerleader for them too. That did ring through on the episode. I mean, well, thank you, which actually I really appreciate because we're always trying to teach my son when we play games that, you know, it's not just about when you win, it's the character you have shines through when you lose more than when you win. And so it was, it was kind of fun to see that and to be like, look at JR, he's up there like, you know, cheering them on. And even in the gets to vote, he's not going to win. So, so just a couple more questions here before Zoom says we got to quit this, this fun time we're having. But I'm enjoying every minute. I love hearing you recount all the episodes. The one question that I had was, was what was it like when it was done then? Because I know you've explained like, oh my gosh, it was, it was a whole process leading up to it. But when it was over, like, what was that? What happens.
Yeah, I mean, you're right. On game day, you know, we, we had to get there at noon. I don't think our episode started filming until like 6. And then, you know, we filmed for 2 hours because that spin-off was so historic. And then as soon as Sumati and I lost, they ushered us outside where we met— Sumati had her daughter with her and I had my wife Amanda with me— and then they like sort of unceremoniously tossed us into the van and shut up. Like, we— from the time that I hit the buzzer and got that last whammy and ended the front game to the time we we were in the van, I don't know that it was 3 minutes.
Oh wow.
And, and honestly, I mentioned this on, on my social medias and, uh, and everywhere, but the one souvenir I got was I did get Elizabeth Banks to sign a Cocaine Bear poster for me, um, which again, I didn't do that, my producers did that because they're amazing, um, but the reason it took 3 minutes was because I asked someone, hey, they, you know, they said they had my poster signed and they're like, oh yeah, You guys wait out here, we'll go get it. So like, if it hadn't been for like someone having to go back in and track down my, my poster, um, you know, it would have been like 30 seconds, tossed in the van and go.
So delusions of grandeur are crushed after this. That's right.
And, and it was like, we, we were debriefing on the way home with Sumati and, you know, her daughter and Amanda, and then we were just back at the hotel and, you know, we're flying home the next day and I was actually sort of like, I was surprised what a big wave of disappointment hit me. Like, I don't think I realized how much I was really hoping I would get to go to the bonus round and get some of those like crazy once-in-a-lifetime prizes. And, you know, um, yeah, so like I was, I was pretty surprised how sad I felt.
Yeah.
Um, but it was really helpful, honestly, to have that text thread because a lot of us were feeling that way. Spoilers: most of us didn't win, right? Of the 30, there's only 10 winners and there's not even 30 of us in that text thread. It's like, it's like 10 of us. But, you know, it was, it was really nice to be able to just feel that with some other folks who knew exactly what you're going through, you know, because it is a weird thing, right? Like, I got to go on a game show, have this once in a lifetime experience. Meet Elizabeth Banks, get a whammy on national television, have a freaking signed cocaine bear, like, you know, but then like, I'm sad. Yeah. You know, like, you know, so it is a little—
it's real. Yeah, it is.
Right. And it's just, it was really nice to have some folks that I didn't have to explain it to.
Yeah.
You know, they just also got it.
So, uh, well, I, I totally get it. I totally understand that.
Yeah.
Not from having the experience of being on that show, but yeah, there, there are big things that that, that can leave that impression in our life.
And, uh, but I'm sure that's how you felt when that song got pulled, right?
Oh man, yeah, it was, it was crushing for a few days. It was like, oh my gosh, you know, your expectations get real big and, and, and this could change everything, and then nope, nothing changed. But, but that's all right too.
So you just wake up and do the same thing again.
That's right, you just wake up and do the same thing. Well, it's dangerous to do this. Zoom says we have 8 minutes left, or just a little less, so I'll, we'll try to be quick with this question. But knowing that, that both, both of us are in pastoral ministry. I was thinking through this whole journey of how seriously they take this whole process. Like, it's— it is a— it's a long process. It's obviously worth it for them to go through all these stages, you know, to get to the final end result. But you don't just start out and be like some random schmuck, come on up, you know, and be on this show. Like, they take it very seriously. In that world, what they do. They are professionals. They have a lot that they leap through. I was just thinking like how that's actually a really amazing example, like of people doing things well in their world where they're at. And I was wondering how often, like in the church, we don't always go through such extremes, you know, when it comes to Like, I was just thinking about like discipleship processes and yeah, what do we do leading up to baptism? And what do we do, you know, before taking a person into membership or whatever? People have no problem jumping through all these hoops to get there on TV. Like they, they work hard to do whatever it takes. They make videos, they have it come down to a sizzle reel and all that. But I just wonder if you have any reflections, like thinking pastorally on this experience of of how could I apply this to like thinking about the way we do things in church? What could we learn from this experience together?
Well, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. In general, I think we are so trapped into one particular model of what church should look like that rather than asking— so it's a little different with a church and a game show, right? Because the game show is— I mean, ha, that's breaking news, right? Everyone, everyone is like staggered by that hot take that adventures in game shows are different. Um, well, so pressure luck—
I don't realize that though.
Now I'm sad, Rick. Thanks a lot. Yeah, no, you're right. Uh, let me see how to say this. Pressure luck is going out and looking for people, right? The church is a place where, where the Spirit brings people to us. Um, and so I, I would actually sort of flip this and say what I would actually love to love for churches to learn from this experience is Uh, let's assume that the Spirit has brought to us the people who are necessary, who are required for us to accomplish the mission God has given us, right? If, if the church is the body of Christ and, and God equips the body to do what the body's calling is, let's assume that. I think where we get into the problem is we all have received this enlightenment modernist structure of worship that is so rigid that I can drop in on pretty much any church anywhere in the country and experience more or less the same structure, right? There's a, there's a building, there's music, and then a lecture of some kind with or without a multimedia presentation. Hopefully some communion or Eucharist, and then, you know, leave. And I wonder if instead of, instead of assuming we have to fit everyone the Spirit brings to us into this structure, if we started with the people that we have as a part of our congregation and said, okay, what— almost more like a, more like a jigsaw puzzle without a box, right? We're like, okay, what do these pieces make? Like, what is our, what is our mission? What is our calling? And then how, how can this— or okay, so maybe not a jigsaw puzzle, maybe Legos, right? There's not one picture, one box we're trying to accomplish. It's more like, here's our mission. What can we build out of this? Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Because then again, I think we trust the spirit to do a lot of that. If I can be crass, recruiting process that Pressure Luck does so well. Right? But that's because they have a very specific agenda. They're doing a game show that's con— you know, contestant-centric, and they've built a very good machine that they know how to run. I think the church has some more freedom and can start with who we have, who we have, who the Spirit has brought to us, and try to just build something weird. And if it doesn't look very much like the traditional church structure, uh, who cares?
Yeah, right? Because that's Yeah, and, and this is what I've been thinking about just as I hear your story again today. And as I heard it last time, and, and I love the way that you're reflecting on this too. This is beautiful. And so maybe we'll kind of close it out with, with this thought and all of us continue to think as the days go by. But I love the way that when they were going through the process, they took so much time to hear everybody's story. Like every contestant, they were trying to help you weave together a narrative of what your life was, what it meant. Now, the difference being it wasn't just a means to an end to get you on a show and then dump you back in the van when you're done, you know, like an example for the church. I think when I hear that is every person's story is worth hearing. Like it's important for us to stop and not just, not just quickly, you know, say hi and bye. But the idea that we would sit down, like, tell me more about you. Tell me about your family. Tell it like, like your, your story is important. And I mean, you've, you've maybe walked with race differently than I have. I want to hear your story. Maybe you walked with your gender, your sexuality differently than I have. And it's important for us to like hear fully who you are and for you to tell us and you be free to do that. And in that way, we, we are not necessarily weaving together their narrative, but maybe we're giving people who haven't had a chance to have their story heard a way to bring them into the family, you know, and because those stories, I think, are important. So where I take from hearing this amazing journey, like this experience that you had, and like they were intent on making sure they knew who you were. But, but their means was kind of self-serving in all that, you know, to some extent, right? Not, not making a judgment about that other than it's TV. Yeah, that's what you do. But imagine if we in the church would give that same kind of care. And I think that's what you're talking about. Like, church may not look the same for every person that's coming in, but if we give that kind of a bow to another person, not so much for us to always be proclaiming at them,, but to really like hear who you are. I think that's kind of a beautiful lesson we might be able to learn, uh, from your process on, on Press Your Luck, you know? I mean, I mean, seriously, I think it's a good thing. So, well, hey, we've only got like a minute left, so I didn't mean to take so long, but I have loved every minute of this.
That was wonderful. Thank you.
What, what have you got coming down the pike, or should I just say go to your website and find out more information?
Uh, so I'm off I'm off Twitter. RIP. But I'm still on Facebook. I'm on Instagram, all those places at JR Forresteros. That's where I post all my writing these days is for magazine outlets. So I'm a columnist at Sojourners. I write for Think Christian. I write for Tor.com, which is a fantasy and sci-fi website. And so because it's spooky season, all my stuff is horror-centric right now. But I'm actually working on an article on the legacy of Jurassic Park 30 years later. So that'll be a—
Oh, wow.
In a couple weeks.
Yeah, that is cool. Well, JR, it is always so wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.
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