Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast) Episode 576 - Phil King - Miscarriages

Okay, well, welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I am your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad for all of you who are listening today. Glad to have you here with us today. We're going to have as a guest Phil King. Phil is a gifted singer and songwriter and worship leader, and his latest single, Miss Carriages, really it's not just a song, but I feel like it is a balm for grieving hearts. It's born out of personal pain of witnessing loved ones experiencing the loss of a child, and it's really a deeply emotional ballad. And so we're going to dive into it a little bit deeper today and talk about Phil and some of his music. But for right now, let me just welcome our guest today, Phil King. Phil, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Hey Rick, thank you for having me. So good to be here.

Well, I'm very glad to have you, and thank you for taking time out of what I know is a busy schedule. And it sounds like you've been, uh, on the road traveling. I think you were in Nashville yesterday and you're back home in Texas today. So yeah, it sounds like life has been very busy for you. So thank you for making time this evening for a few minutes to talk.

Absolutely.

Well, I'm so glad to have you here, and, and this is such a really personal song, and I know that there must be a really powerful story behind it as well. And I know a little bit of it just from reading some of the press release, but, uh, your song Miscarriages, it's, it's such a deeply personal, uh, song. And, uh, I wonder if you would take a moment just to be able to share kind of some of the story behind the song, what the inspiration was, and some of the things involved that you felt like compelled to write it.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Rick, we're in that season in our, uh, early to mid-30s, my wife and I, where we're having kids and most of the friends around us, you know, are married or about to get married and starting families of their own. And that's just something at that age— I know you know this, and for the young people listening, you'll know this someday— um, but, uh, you know, that you walk through that together with people, those seasons of life, raising children, bringing children to the world, baby showers, you know, this shower, that shower, all kinds of things going on. And so here in Amarillo, some close friends of ours were pregnant that were pretty close to us, are pretty close to us, and they lost a child. And it was like, you know, we were so invested In fact, they shared with us in confidence that they were pregnant. They're really, really good friends with us before they even made an announcement. And it was kind of, you know, they're the kind of friends that we would be like an aunt and uncle, you know, so to speak. And that was pretty heartbreaking. And then, you know, fast forward a few weeks later and we had twins 2 years ago, my wife and I, we had a son and a daughter. It's the best thing ever. And also So much work, but so awesome. And so we have two 2-year-olds. But anyways, another couple that's also a friend of ours came to us, hey, we're pregnant with twins. And we were like, oh my goodness, you know, my wife had already felt a draw to just really connect with this couple. And, and I did too. There's such precious people here. And we were starting to give them, you know, twin stuff because when you, when you had twins, you got to buy two of everything. It is just like insanity. And so we're like, you know, handing off our stuff to them and giving them all the tips, you know, here's the— you want to get them on a rhythm and all these things. Well, fast forward a few weeks later and my wife got the phone call that they lost Baby B, which is the, you know, in the pregnancy world and the twin world, multiple world, that's— that means the second child conceived. And I don't know, that one really hit home because for us, that would have been our son. Our son was Baby B. And, um, and he's just like, you know, my, my, my best little buddy ever. And, um, it just, it just really struck a nerve. And so one morning, uh, when I was getting ready, I was just mulling it over and thinking about it, and I just was like, man, I, I really want to write a song of comfort for these couples that we know. And, um, I sent the original demo to both of them. And just, just from the responses that we were getting, I was like, okay, well, maybe this is like a need where people need a safe place, a healing place. Um, and I, and I know that you know this being a songwriter and artist yourself, but giving people almost like a room to step into in the audio world to grieve, um, to cry, to let their heart be broken before Jesus in a safe spot. And so That's kind of the backstory, um, you know, and after that it was like, okay, well, let's get serious with this recording and had some great friends jump on it with the production side of things. But yeah, that's, that is, uh, pretty much how that took shape. Um, and the response is, oh my goodness, you know, it has just been very eye-opening because we didn't have a miscarriage ourselves. Um, but we really, you know, like the scripture says, weep with those who weep. Uh, we want to be there for our friends and rejoice with those who rejoice.

Wow, and that's, that's a beautiful bow to make to another person. And, um, from, from past experience with that myself, my wife and I, um, we know that, as many listeners will know and as your friends know, um, because it's something that isn't seen, um, unlike, you know, when, when we have loved ones who've been with us for a while, if they pass away, even then there's usually funerals and there's ceremonies to mark the day and friends and loved ones come around. With miscarriages, no one ever met that baby. And so it's a hard thing because there's not really like the visible evidence of it. There's just a sadness. And it's a very hard thing sometimes for people who go through it to feel solidarity. So I really believe probably the reason that it's resonating with people is because it probably helps them to feel seen. In the midst of and heard and their stories to be experienced. So, um, so I appreciate that. And I, I, if it's okay with you, I'm just going to play a little bit of the song for our listeners.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right now, because we've been talking about it and I just want them to, to get at least, uh, you know, just under a minute of the song. They can, they can go out and hear the rest elsewhere. But here it is. This is Miscarriages from my guest this week, Phil King.

They did not awake in this world. They awoke in the arms of God. The first light they saw was heaven's majesty. They're growing up being taught by Jesus, so alive in blessed freedom. How could a child be lost if they're home. So Mommy and Daddy, don't you be afraid. Your little baby is gonna be okay. They're being held in the arms of Jesus, and they can't wait to meet you soon someday.

And that's just a little clip of, of the song Miscarriages, and I love it. And I think our listeners can already hear what a powerful song the entirety of it is. And, uh, it, it actually made me think, just listening to it this time again, I hadn't had this thought before, but earlier today before work I was watching a little bit of The Chosen, uh, the TV series. I don't know if you've watched any of it.

Yeah.

I'm kind of new to it. I feel like I'm coming late, but I've been, you know, watching, trying to catch up on episodes.

Yeah.

But the idea of, in your song, being taught by Jesus, you know, and there's an episode called Jesus and the Children, and I love that so much because the whole episode is just Jesus with children and him teaching them, talking to them, and even reminding them that they are so open to receiving the word that He says something towards the end of the episode about, I fear that the adults that I go to share this with are not going to be nearly as receptive as you are. And I think what a beautiful thought it is for little children, including my own, in heaven to be taught by Jesus, to be raised by Jesus. You know, I think that's incredible. So what a beautiful line to put in the song. I mean, it's really powerful.

Well, thank you.

You know, we could— I don't know, there's a lot of directions you can take a conversation like this for sure. But I do know we have not only people who have experienced tragedies like this, but we also have people who just love music too, who listen to this podcast as well as different Christian-related things. And you've been blessed to have some of your songs recorded by some really great artist, people like Matt Redman and Leland and different ones like that. But I'd love to hear a little bit from you, just a couple of musical thoughts, if you don't mind, that are not specifically about only your new single. But I'd love to know who some of your musical influences are as you think about people that have shaped your writing and people that have shaped the way that you present song. I hear a little bit of a almost, you know, country influence in, in this song a little bit. And, you know, maybe some of the great writers there. But tell us just a little bit about your musical background and where you draw inspiration. Yeah, that's a—

that is an interesting, uh, journey there. So I grew up, um, at a little tiny church. I was actually born in California, and there was, in this just really soulful environment And if you listen to the whole like spread of my catalog, there's definitely a soulful vibe that can sneak its way out from time to time. I grew up underneath a B-3 organ next to a Leslie. And man, when that thing would flip on, it was just like— to this day, you know, if I hear that tone and that sound coming from the Leslie when it starts just taking off, you know, rotating, I'm like— It just makes me feel like a kid again. You know, so I grew up around that. And then my grandfather was actually the pastor over the choir for a time at the Brooklyn Tabernacle in Brooklyn, New York. So Jim Simbler is the pastor there, and they're still good friends to this day. And my grandpa, you know, I would go out to Grandma and Grandpa's house., most of the time during the summer when school was out and go to Brooklyn, or sometimes they were some spots they were living in Queens. But either way, we jump on the subway and we go to church. And again, I would just hear this incredible sound, this soulful sound, and these phenomenal songs, um, you know. And that their choir there was bigger than the whole church I was a part of growing up. It was massive, um, and, um, you know, so that, that was kind of the, the early roots. And then as I got older, I discovered, um, actually my first CD was, uh, Smitty, Michael W. Smith. And I, I still remember hearing him on, on headphones, you know, where you'd go into the Bible bookstore, the Christian music store, or whatever you call it, and, and you put on those headphones and hit the sample button. And I just happened to push his, and I went, Mom, who is this? And my mom like lit up, and she's like, oh yay, you've discovered Michael W. Smith! And, um, I didn't know, you know, as I older, when I lived in Nashville, moved there for music stuff, I, I eventually started traveling with him a little bit and sang on a couple of his albums. And we're still friends till this— till today. And, um, I just was texting with him a couple days ago, and I mean, he's just— and I don't know if you've met him, but everybody says the same thing, he's just the real deal.

Yeah.

And I would say he's had the probably the biggest influence on me, um, his songs, his, his style, his sound. And then also to Matt Redman as well, and Leland. Those two guys, um, I've, I've been blessed, especially with Leland, to, to be around him a lot and, you know, written songs together and just, just friendship. And all three of those guys just together, you know, have really— I feel like half or more of my tool belt as a writer is— are things I've picked up from them, you know. Um, and, and you learn by, by who you're around, and, and, um, the friends that you have influence and shape you in life and also in, in the— your craft and songwriting or whatever that is, whatever your calling and craft is. Um, I, I just really know that who you're surrounded by is, is a huge part of what you're becoming. And, um, I'm so thankful for people like them and the time that I've spent around them. And there have been other, other artists, you know, that I've, um, I've done little— had stints with or played for or helped out or gotten to serve, serve the Lord with. And that's been really awesome. But really, those three, um, mean a lot to me. And they might not even know that. I should probably tell them I know I've told them probably at different points, but, you know, I, I, I think I've told Michael he was my first CD, but I don't know, maybe that might make him feel old or something.

But do you remember which CD it was?

Yeah, it was Live the Life.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, I actually texted him a song from, um, it's called, uh, Never Been Unloved, uh, that I was listening to the other day. You know, I've been a minute, uh, such a good song. And I texted it to him, I was like, man, this is really ministering to me today. And he said, he's like, bro, I was just listening to that song this morning while I was on a walk. And I was like, that's so cool. Um, yeah, you know, sound like it was confirming for him. But anyways, you know, just those songs really got in my system. They became a part of, um, who I was growing up. And then Matt a little later on. And then, you know, Leland and I, um, we, we're about the same age, so as I was getting started, he kind of was too. And his stuff really did so well, and his songs are just beautiful. And Leland is a very, um, natural writer. Like, he just doesn't have to try. It's just, it's just, he's scary good, you know. It just— and he, he, he'll write other kinds of songs too. Like, he'll write like this pop indie stuff that I I don't even know if anyone's ever heard it, but it's just, it's like so good. Yeah, you know, um, he's just a natural creative writer and a lot of fun, fun to be around. So very thankful for, um, my time around them. And then, you know, you fast forward into my mid-20s and I somehow became a worship pastor. Um, and I, I really do though, uh, Rick, I really do love the church. Um, it's, it's a big I just don't think that any Christian is called to serve the Lord or do life outside of the church at all. You know, we're a body. We're all one body, as the word says. I know sometimes people go through seasons where they're figuring things out, but at the end of the day, you know, I love the church. And no matter what season I'm in as an artist or writer, I'll always just show up, you know, because that's our family. Um, and so, uh, we're here in Amarillo, part of a great church family here called Trinity Fellowship Church. And before this, I was at Gateway Church, and a lot has gone on there, obviously, last, um, year or two. It's been pretty, pretty tumultuous. Um, but been in touch with everyone, and just, um, so many sweet people in that season and season we're in now just really helped me, you know. I just Again, I can't say this enough, like I just said that about Michael, Matt, and, and Leland. I just would not be the person I am today without the body of Christ in the local church, um, just pointing to me. So I'm really grateful for all those aspects, you know. So yeah, I think that's a good nutshell, you know, good snapshot.

That's good stuff. And, and, you know, I was, I was thinking about a couple different things as you were talking. One was just, yeah, that Live the Life album really came out at a unique time, I think, contemporary Christian music, because we had that I think right around the same time, of course, DC Talk was putting out some of their, you know, kind of groundbreaking material where they were really breaking the mold from where they had been. You had Stephen Curtis Chapman who was coming out with like Signs of Life and doing all this really creative, amazing stuff. So that was, that was kind of a special, I think, you know, kind of period just in music in general, in the, in the faith genre.

It was.

So those were some good ones. Good songs that came out of that time that are very memorable. Um, and then I was also thinking, and yeah, Gateway's been through some difficult stuff lately, and we definitely pray for all the people involved in there. But I can think of one song in particular. I'm not even sure that many people know this song, but for me, they had a song several years ago. I was at a Lincoln Brewster concert here in Dayton, Ohio, and, um, the, the Host Church came out and did a Gateway worship song called Heaven's Song. I don't know if you're familiar with that one.

Yeah, I've heard of it.

Yeah, yeah, it's just this beautiful, um, you know, almost like it's straight from Revelation and just the heaven singing the holy song, you know, the holy, holy, you alone are worthy. And I remember, uh, having to like— I can't remember if I texted or called the worship pastor because I was like, I've never heard this song, where is— where'd you get it from? And Um, just still one of those things that when I hear it, I feel like transported to another realm. So it's really beautiful how music does that for us sometimes. So yeah, well, thanks for, thanks for sharing, you know, some of your—

Absolutely. Yeah.

And, uh, and if you ever have a chance just to mention to, uh, to Michael— I've never met him before but have been an admirer from afar for a while— um, that song as well, the one you mentioned, I've Never Been Unloved, Um, I actually refer to that quite often with patients in, in the hospital rooms with them sometimes. No way. Because people will talk about at times, um, how unloved they feel, how unworthy they feel, and, and oftentimes feel very isolated, very alone. And I often think of that song, for whatever reason it comes to mind, of just reminding other people, no matter where they are, that they really have never been unloved, no matter what situation they find themselves in.

That's so good.

Yeah, so, uh, if just one more kind of confirmation for him in that regard, if you ever have a chance to mention it, is it is, um, it's amazing how music will, will stretch beyond its time period and go places. So it's, it's a beautiful thing, as I believe, to bring it all back around, I believe your song as well, Miscarriages, is going to be a really, uh, powerful tool, I think to minister to a lot of hearts. There's some beautiful descriptive imagery in that song, and I'm so glad that people are responding in such a good way, an affirming way, to you writing it. Because I also think too, Phil, it is— it takes some courage to be able to share that with friends who have been through something like a miscarriage, because there is a fear of saying the wrong thing or like saying too much, or, you know. And so I appreciate even your courage and sharing the song, uh, even just with your friends before it even became, you know, something on a record and things like that.

Yeah.

And I think that honors them by you even trying to speak into their situation. So thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for saying that.

You bet. Well, thank you for bringing the good music to us. We appreciate it. Um, just one last question here where I can't believe we've almost been talking for about a half hour almost already, but, um, Um, I'd love to know just some of the music that's on your playlist right now, the kind of things that are, that are currently inspiring you. We've talked about things from the past, um, but what are you finding that— it doesn't even have to be of the, the Christian genre necessarily, it can just be— yeah, things you're finding like, wow, this is good art and I'm loving it and it's helping me.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was actually talking today, some other worship pastors and I, and I think because my brain is always in— like, for example, if a good song comes up that I'm like, oh, that, that could be a good, you know, uh, a good song too, or a good, a good fast song. I kind of tend to, when I'm on my own resting or on a walk, I kind of shy away from the contemporary worship stuff, and I'll listen to more obscure stuff. Um, you know, one of my favorites to listen to is actually Rich Mullins.

Oh yeah.

Um, I, I just, man, like Calling Out, Calling Out My Name. Um, uh, you know, uh, oh my goodness, what's the, what's the other song? Oh, I just like, I can't get enough these days of Rich Mullins. And I'm like, okay, let me, let me redo some of these ones Like, I love, uh, Sometimes by Step. Oh my goodness, like the verses in there. I know there's a more modern Hillsong version of it where Brooke put more modern verses to it, but his, his words and the way that, um, he was so vulnerable. And you know, all of us are broken people. Um, we are all jars of clay. That God's glory somehow just gets through all of the cracks and just shines out of actually our brokenness. And I feel like Rich really got a hold of that concept and put it out in other songs like Hold Me, Jesus, um, If I Stand. We Are Not As Strong As We Think We Are. Oh my goodness, you know, just like, we are not as strong I think we are. It's like so good. Holy Jesus. Just, uh, I, I love his stuff. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, no, I was just gonna say I'm a huge Rich Mullins fan too, and one of my favorites, uh, I wish he would have had a chance to live long enough to record it. All we have is this demo of it. Amy Grant recorded the song Nothing Is Beyond You.

Oh, nothing is beyond you.

Yeah, and, and I I just think that was just marvelous. I will listen to that again and again.

And it's the lyrics, you know, you can just read the lyrics, don't even sing them, and it's like, wow.

Yeah, his, his are definitely like back in the day when we actually had printed lyrics on albums and stuff. Like, his, his were ones that you could, you could go through and didn't matter what the song was, you could just go through and read them for the poetry that they were. And yeah, always made incredible statements. Um, that Liturgy, a Legacy, and a Ragamuffin Band album, just start to finish, is just, is just perfection all the way through. I know, down to the end and the Land of My Sojourn. And some of the pictures that he paints whenever he's writing, it's just, he was, he is such a talent that is missed today for sure. But I know so many people, I've often wondered actually if he hasn't touched more people through his death. Uh, I, I can remember being at a concert.

Yeah.

Day that he passed away, and they came out and announced it, um, years ago. I was in college at the time, just to date myself.

Oh my goodness, what was that like?

It was, it was really like, well, it was in Nashville because I went to college in Nashville, and it was an outdoor music festival. So at that time, a lot of the big artists were there. So, um, closing the evening was, uh, third day, uh, and the last artist was Stephen Curtis Chapman that night. But all day long had just been lots of music, and Chris Rice, a whole bunch of people had been there that. And I remember, I want to say it was like in the middle of Third Day's set, if I'm remembering correctly, they came out and made an announcement to the whole crowd, which was huge. And they said, you know, we just received word that Rich Mullins has been killed in an accident. And Third Day had just released maybe their second album, but their first one, Rich had played on their album. So they came out and did at least a handful of Rich Mullins songs on the stage that night, just kind of unplanned, kind of helped people grieve. And then Stephen Curtis that night revealed his song "Not Home Yet," and he said almost the same thing we're saying about— he said, you know, I could go and just read his album lyrics, and there was so much longing for heaven. And so I'm just going to sing this for Rich tonight. And so he's saying, oh my goodness, So yeah, it was, it was a, uh, definitely a moment that for me made me dive deeper into Rich Mullins. Like, I, I probably didn't know as much of his music before that night, but afterwards it was like, wow.

And I was—

from then on, I still to this day, I'll hear something by him and just, it's just as fresh as it ever was.

Yeah, nothing— for real. Yeah. And then not to, not to make it, uh, more depressing, but a similar story. I really also love, um, as a, as a lyric guy, uh, Keith Green, a whole lot, man.

You're talking my language tonight. Asleep in the Light and all those—

Asleep in the Light is like, is like, wow, man. I mean, they're just— those, those two gentlemen, uh, really woke me up to the power of, of words, you know, and, and song. And I think just listening to them and ingesting them, even though, you know, those songs are 30, 40 years old, um, some of them, it's just, uh, life, life-changing lyrics that really, really, uh, open your, your soul up to start doing some digging and thinking about what really matters, where you're at, where are you going, um, You know, and, uh, I just, I can't say thank you. And whenever I meet them in heaven someday, I'm just gonna say thank you, thank you, thank you, you know. Yeah, just incredible songwriters. And there's, there's a whole side too, you know, of, of, uh, on the, on the musical side of things, of people that I love. Um, you know, I, my, I, I really cut my teeth on, uh, as a, as a player, although I cannot play nearly as, as good as they can. But, you know, like Steve Ray Vaughan and Robert And John Mayers and Eric Clapton. Like, I love, you know, listening to all of them. Um, but, but deep down, I think what my, my heart cries out for more than great music is, is for a song to be like a space where I can get with Jesus and, um, hold my heart out before him in a real bare and even broken, vulnerable, real way and connect with him, whether I'm in a car or, you know, on a walk, whatever.. And those two guys, Rich and Keith, really were masters at making that happen for all of their listeners. So yeah, a lot of respect for them.

Well, and they are great. I concur. And I'm gonna throw one more name in and then I'm gonna close this out.

Let's do it.

Let's do it. Larry Norman, who was well before. Oh yeah.

But Larry, did you see Joe Rogan was recently, he on his podcast, you go look it up. He randomly was talking to this guy. He's like, man, I found this, this, uh, song. He starts playing a Larry Norman song.

Oh wow. This—

honest, he's like, this is awesome. It's like, what is happening?

Yeah, Larry was truly one of those— like, he was, he was out of the Jesus Movement, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

He was so inspired. He, he really was like the Bob Dylan of the faith community. And, and in a time when Christian music was not even a category yet. He just wrote about what he knew. He'd been radically transformed and changed, and he could see the hypocrisy of things. Like, he would write political songs that were, you know, really like blatantly in the face of like calling out different things that needed to be called out. And it was in a time when the church embraced it, you know.

It was like real.

It was, yeah, it really was a different kind of time. And he was, you know, he was controversial, but man, it was powerful stuff. So just another one to throw in the midst from a different time. But we do need— you know, they were not— none of those guys, as I think about as we close our conversation tonight, the thing that makes me think about all three of them, none of them were cookie-cutter writers. They all just wrote completely from their heart. It didn't matter if the song went on for 10 minutes, you know, they were gonna write what they needed to write, say what they needed to say., and, um, they were— the world is better off for it, I think, honestly.

Yeah.

Uh-huh. Grateful for, for people like that. So, so, Phil, and you keep breaking the mold too, and, uh, I look forward—

all right, I'll try—

more music in the coming days. And I, I always say this to my guests each time I have a guest on, but thank you for being one of the voices in my head this week. I really appreciate having you here. Um, I'm just going to play this outro music real quick as I say goodbye to our listeners this evening, but thank all for listening to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and you can find out more about me at my website at rickleejames.com. And I encourage you to go and check out Phil King's music wherever you can stream music. It's all over the place, and I know you know how to get there, so I'm not even going to tell you where to find it because you will find it. Just look up Phil King, uh, and he's great. He's— as you could hear tonight, even from the short clip we had. Amazing singer, has a big heart, and I know that you're going to really enjoy diving deeper into his catalog, as will I. So, Phil, thank you for joining us here tonight. God bless you all. Thank you, Rick, for listening.