Voices In My Head (The Rick Lee James Podcast) Episode 448: A Small If - Elijah Stacy

Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James. I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're back with us again for what I know is going to be a great conversation today. Elijah Stacy is a 19-year-old who suffers from Duchenne muscular dystrophy, a fatal muscle-wasting disease. At the age of 16, to avoid agonizing surgery, he had to endure enough physical therapy to change the shape of his spine. It had never been done before, but his doctor gave him a small if. Elijah has just released a new book called A Small If, and he's here to talk about not only his book, but his whole story today and to share more about his journey and to tell us how we can help raise awareness and help to destroy Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Elijah Stacy, welcome to Voices in My Head.

Thank you so much for having me today.

Well, I'm so glad to have you and to have a chance to visit with you for a few minutes here today. Uh, congratulations on the new book. I know it's always a great feeling of accomplishments for authors to be able to write, although I'm somewhat sad that it has to be written. And I wish that you could have happier topics to write about in your life at this stage. But I'm so proud at the same time of the great work that you're doing and the way that you are finding to be able to raise awareness of this disease and the way that you are using it to really find incredible strength to tell your story. So thanks for for taking some time today. I do want to let listeners know, um, at the beginning of the episode today that anywhere they go, whether it be my website for Voices in My Head podcast or my webpage on Substack, we're going to have links today where they can easily click through and not only find Elijah's book, but also find links to, um, to destroyduchenne.org and where they can help raise awareness and find out more about this disease. And if they can do nothing else today, they could maybe share the link and spread the word around and help out with this great cause today. So I just wanted to make that clear at the beginning of our show this morning. So let's, uh, start today, Elijah. Tell listeners, if you could, about Duchenne's disease, when you were diagnosed, and, and how it's affected your life and really the, the life of your family.

Yeah, so I was born with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and basically what this disease does is it eats away a person's muscles as time goes on. So when I was, you know, a little kid, I was walking on my tippy toes. I was falling to the floor frequently. I was not able to keep up with my peers at recess. And we noticed that something was wrong. So I was officially diagnosed with it when I was 6 years old after going through lots of testing and eventually a muscle biopsy that they did on my leg. And that confirmed that I had shin muscular dystrophy. Then the disease progresses so much so that you'll lose your ability to walk and you'll become dependent on a wheelchair. And that happened to me when I was just 11 years old. So when I was 11 years old, I had to use a wheelchair full-time. I could not bear any weight on my legs anymore. So I couldn't, you know, going to the bathroom is harder, going, getting out of bed's harder, taking a shower, getting in a car to go, you know, to go places, that's harder. All of that would change when I was 11 years old. And then the disease also will progress towards your arms because your arms are muscles as well. So you lose mobility in your arms and that makes everything more challenging. And then the disease, the worst part about it is it's fatal and it will attack the heart and diaphragm muscles. And most people pass away by 25. So it's a very, very serious disease that we need to do something about today.

Yeah. So this is literally, as we talk today, something, a matter of life and death as we talk. And so this is a very urgent matter. And, and I'm grateful to have the chance to be able to talk about this. And it's not just something that only has affected you. Um, two of your brothers were also diagnosed with this, this terrible disease, and I wonder if you would mind sharing about that with us as well.

Sure. So my younger brother, um, Kai, he's like the youngest in the family. He's 14 years old and he's in a wheelchair right now. He has the same disease. He's very into art, and, you know, he's an 8th grader. He's into art and video games and memes, you know. He likes to laugh all the time. That's the type of guy Kai is. And then my brother Max, he was 14. He passed away in 2019. Max had Duchenne as well, but he also had other health complications that made him really severe. Like, for example, he— well, when he was born, he had an open heart surgery that didn't go well, and it led to him being cognitively delayed, blind, not able to talk, confined to a bed basically his whole life with a full-time nurse. And, you know, feeding tube, really severe, um, condition that he was in. And he— but he also had Duchenne, and he passed away from Duchenne officially, um, in 2019. Wow.

Well, I'm, I'm so sorry for the loss there and for all that you and your family have gone through with that. You made what I think is a very courageous decision in your life. The doctors came to you with a choice about having a surgery, which was going to end up being, um, really a very painful surgery, uh, where, as I understand, it was going to be like a rod, I think, maybe down your back. I'm sure you could tell us more about what that was going to be, but you chose a, a really drastic form of physical therapy instead to try to fight this and try to change the, the shape of your spine. I, I And you did this at 16, and this is an age that most kids don't have to deal with decisions like this. I mean, that's a, that's a huge decision for anybody to have to go through. I wonder if you could talk to us just a little bit about that, why you made that choice, and, and are you glad that that was the decision you made ultimately? And, and I just, just maybe talk to us a little bit about that.

Sure, yes. So I, so I'll tell you the whole story. It's a good story. So When I was 16 years old, get off the X-ray table, we're looking at the X-ray with my doctor. And this time he's like, your spine is curved so much that, you know, we're going to have to— I'm going to have to put my foot down and really advocate for you having a metal rod in your back. And he's going down the hall. You know, this is what it's like. You know, we'll have this team of doctors, they're really good. We'll do it during the summer to avoid flu season. And he's getting specific. So I know he's serious now. And it's like, whoa, okay. I look over to my left, my mom's crying. My doctor's handing her a tissue. My dad's got his head down. That's what he does when he's sad. And I'm like smiling because I'm not accepting this news. I will not have this surgery. And he didn't even know. There was no, you know, there was no option like, hey, do you want the physical therapy? Or no, no, that was not on the table, right? It was, it was like, you need to have the surgery. I'm fine. He said, well, you know, what can we do? You know, can we do anything or whatever? And he said, you know, not really. And then I asked him, okay, I said, okay, I said, look, look Let's just say if I was somehow able to reverse the current state of my spine, could I avoid having the surgery then? He says, well, I've never seen it been done before. It's basically medically impossible. I don't want to give you any false hope, but because I know you, I will give you a small if, right? That's if you're able to do it, you don't have to have the surgery. Thought I small if, okay, that's all I need to hear. So from that day forward, went to physical therapy, did intense stretching and stuff, worked out every single day on my own at my house. I hung a picture of my curved spine on my bedroom wall so I'd wake up every morning and see it to remind myself of what I got to do. And I would visualize myself making it straight and, you know, doing everything I need to, to do that. And then, um, I even, I even, you know, taught myself how to cook in my wheelchair. So I'd be driving the wheelchair with one hand, carrying the pan in the other hand, you know, uh, because I wanted to eat healthier because I thought maybe losing weight would relieve some of the pressure off my, my spine as well. I was doing everything. I was not gonna— I was gonna do everything I possibly could, praying to God, every single thing I could possibly do to, to not have the surgery. Anyways, uh, after all the hard work and everything, the absolute determination, because I, I I wanted to do it, one, because someone said it's impossible. I'm the type of guy, if someone says something's impossible and I believe it's not, it's going to happen. That's, that's how I am. It's going to happen. I'm going to make it happen. And so I worked really hard and 3 months later I go back to the doctors and I'm confident my spine's straighter now. I'm like, I know the work I put in there is no way this is not straighter. I do the X-rays, they're straighter. Doctor said, you did it. I don't have to have the surgery. And all from just a small if. I just need a small if. And that's where the title of the book comes from, A Small If.

Yeah, terrific story. And, you know, the kind of commitment that you are sharing there is, is a powerful testament, I think, to the kind of person that you are. And when, when you were talking about it, I, I was thinking about other obstacles that you've overcome and that you talk about overcoming as well. Amazing to think about that. Sometimes emotional and relational difficulties are just as hard, and I know that you've been also, uh, one that struggled with bullying at times too. And I know that's something that a lot of kids are going through, and sometimes the kid at school that, you know, is different than everybody else is the easy target. And I, I wonder if you would mind sharing this morning too some of your experience with bullying and and maybe how you handled some of that?

Well, when it comes to bullying, I mean, like I said, I walked on my tippy toes, so a lot of people would make fun of me for that. The biggest thing today, which I don't really even care about now, I tell people it's a waste of their time, is they're going to go for the wheelchair. It's the easiest target, right? And like the way I see it, it's like, well, the only thing that you can criticize me about is the wheelchair or anything like that. I'm doing pretty good in life then because, I mean, you know, criticize something that I can't control. If you're going to criticize something I cannot control, I literally do not care. Like if you were to say, oh Elijah, like you're dumb, like you need, you know, you don't know, you should know something. I'd probably feel mad because I'd be like, you know, yeah, you're right. I should read more. I should learn something more because I'm really into like being educated and knowledgeable. Like that's something that's important to me. That would get me mad. But talking about the wheelchair doesn't matter. And so what I would say to young people or anyone that's listening to this that's getting bullied, number one, I truly believe— and people, we could debate this or whatever, but I, you know, I truly believe if people are bullying you, there's something wrong with the bullying, like the person doing the bullying. Because it's like, why do you need to go out of your way if your life is happy and joyful and you're secure in yourself, you know? And that's really me. I never feel the need to go out of my way to put somebody down. Yeah, to insult them. And a lot of times, something I'm incredibly passionate about is people project like crazy. If they're insecure about something, they're gonna go ahead and try and make you insecure about it. They're going to project their insecurities onto you. And it's like, do not do that. Like, you know, a lot of people try to tell me, oh, you know, you can't do this or whatever because you're in a wheelchair. No, you couldn't do it if you're in a wheelchair. Doesn't mean I can't do it because I'm in a wheelchair. Do not tell me what I can and cannot do. And so people are just full of projecting, and, and that's what I think bullying really comes down to, is people want to project their insecurities onto you. So when you, when you get bullied, take a step back and go, wait a second, let's think about this. Who's doing the bullying? And let's think about them, you know, and think about why are they trying to go after you. And honestly, it In some sense, I've taken it as a compliment a lot of times that people want to try and bully me or leave me hate comments or whatever, because it's like, well, I must be doing something right because you're going after me. You're not just going after anybody, you're going after me in particular. So there's something that I have that you do not have, which is making you feel like you need to come after me. So, you know, who really cares? So honestly, you could actually start to view bullying as a compliment. Now, if it's physical and stuff like that, well, you know, we need to fight back or self-defense or get away from that person. That's a whole other thing. Whatever, you know, if it's emotional and, you know, online or whatever, it's like, just, just block it out. Just background noise, just background noise.

What an amazing attitude you have in all that. You know, I was thinking, as just right now, as you were talking, I recently had seen— I'd recently seen a little bit of a new documentary that was out about a blind man who climbs mountains. And And he was talking about it at a young age, losing his sight. And he talked about how many people said, well, you, you can't do this and you can't do that because you're blind. And, uh, and he said, I still see, I just see in different ways. I, I kind of hear out things and, you know, I see it with my ears, you know. And I— and he climbs mountains. And I was thinking about as you were talking and some of the obstacles that you've overcome, when you just said— I think the way that you said it just now was maybe you couldn't do it if you were in a wheelchair. But don't put that on me or something to that extent that you just said. It makes me wonder if there's anything you couldn't do if you didn't put your mind to it. It seems like you have such an attitude to go at things and to attack them in a way that you would at least try it for sure. And it makes me wonder sometimes, do you ever feel like because of your unique perspective and especially since you've been in a wheelchair, do you ever feel like at times people look past you or that people ignore you. I've, I've come across this at times with other people that I've, that I've seen, that maybe when people are walking through a mall or when they've gone by, there's a tendency to— I don't know, there's just this tendency that people sometimes have. They say sometimes they feel like they want to pretend a person is not there, maybe if they're, um, different in some way in that manner. I wonder if you've come across that much.

No, I, uh, I really— it's me. It's like people do not— like, the one thing about me, it's kind of the reverse. Every single person, you know, will remember me or whatever. And, and I'm meaning this in, uh, I'm not even necessarily saying that's good. All I'm saying is like, it's kind of like whatever I do, I know that I have attention. I mean, I think it's like— I think it's honestly, I think it's my big personality combined with being in a wheelchair that makes me that way. But what I realized is, okay, you know, let's be— let's keep it really real. Being in a wheelchair is different, abnormal. It's just by definition, it's not what the majority is. And so when you see someone in a wheelchair, you're gonna, oh, like, yeah, that's different. It's gonna get your attention. What's different gets your attention. Okay, well, what I realized is since I have all this attention on me It's, it's a blessing in disguise. Now I get to decide where do I direct that attention, how I live my life. I can be an example. So I'm, you know, I'm a Christian. I believe that I'm supposed to model my life after, after Jesus. And if I act like Jesus, I'm directing people towards Jesus. If I talk about Jesus, if I want to evangelize, they're not going to forget that message when it's coming from someone in a wheelchair. And, and it's so powerful too because it's like you have someone in a wheelchair that is suffering really clear— I mean, it's clear the wheelchair symbolizes suffering, and they're talking about Jesus and they're joyful and they're happy. That's a powerful message because it's coming from a credible messenger. And, and so that's something that I realized is I could use this attention for good. You know, it says in Genesis 50:20, it says that, uh, what the— basically paraphrases— so what the devil meant for evil, God meant it for good. And it's like, you know, being— having a disease and being in a wheelchair is, is the, is the cause from a fallen world, right? It's from the fallen world that we have diseases and illnesses. And so the devil, you know, okay, is, is happy that I have this disease. It's not good health, it's not the ideal, it's not how God created us to be, right? It's outside of his perfect order, outside of his design. But because of it, now God is using it for good. You know, I, I run a Bible study every Monday for the last year and a half. And I'm someone that loves talking about God and evangelizing, and a lot of times I've been successful in it. And I just realized that God is using this now for good. It's such an attention magnet that he can, you know, use it to direct that attention towards himself. And I think that's an amazing thing. And even from, you know, the non-Christian side, like even just how I live my life, being a joyful, positive person, directs people towards that, and they can model their life after that. They can model their life after— this is someone that's resilient, this is somebody that overcomes adversity. And, um, I just see it as, as a great thing that, that this attention magnet, this wheelchair, can be used for, for a higher good.

Sure. Well, let me ask you a question on the creative side of things, because you, you really seem like quite an incredibly creative person, whether it be the Bible studies that you lead book you're writing, the different endeavors that you have, even finding a way to get the message out that you have. And this podcast often focuses on creative people like singers and songwriters and authors and, and just people of that, um, that ilk that often come on and have conversations. And I always like to ask them, uh, when I have a chance, just sort of about their daily routine and is there a certain set of practices that they try to instill in their life, um, that help them go about becoming the creative individuals that they are, that help them to maybe kind of keep creative. I would think that in, in your life that you probably have some things that on a regular basis you keep doing to stay fresh and to keep yourself going and to keep yourself challenged. I just wonder, as, as just as a creative person, not even as a person in a wheelchair or a person fighting the, the Duchenne's disease, which I'm, which I'm probably keep mispronouncing, and I apologize. Um, but I just wonder, as a creative person, what are some of those things in your life that just on a routine— are there things in your life that just you have regular disciplines about that are important to you that you keep at?

I love the question. I love the question. This is, um, fascinating me, and, and now I'm gonna go on a huge rant about it because I love this. I actually have a friend who— she's in the UK She, she's in one of the greatest art schools in the world. And so like she actually asked me this lately. So I've been, you know, I'm someone that's really into philosophy. So I like to really think about these things. So perfect question. So, okay, one thing, there's so much I could say, but one thing that is really big to stay creative for me is to read a lot. I read a lot of books. I try to read a book a week. I read a lot. That's number one. Number two is sleeping is super, super important. Right? Because, because when you get the proper amount of sleep, you go into REM sleep, and I believe that's where you start dreaming. And your dreams is like the ultimate form of creativity. I mean, you— it's like your brain is putting together all the things that you learned and putting together certain things, and you come up with brilliant stuff. You know, Einstein, Einstein literally came up with E equals MC squared in a dream. I think that's fascinating to me. I was like, wow, is that really true? I did all my fact-checking on that. That's true. Like, some of the greatest things people come up with— I think Isaac Newton, I'm not totally sure on this, I think he had one of his great discoveries through a dream as well. Like, it's because, it's because your brain is putting together all the stuff that you, you know, um, one thing about consciously, and then it, and then it clicks. It's, it's amazing. So dreaming is, is really, really important, right? So, but you have to sleep. So sleeping is like the greatest way of creativity. Another thing I'm really, really big on is I like to go on walks, if you will, strolls, call it whatever you want, um, outside, you know, being with like, you know, just outside from that, you know, nice breeze, being around like different trees and whatever. And I put on music and, and just listen to it really loud and just go out there and just think and whatever. And, um, you know, I don't know, for me music really gets me to be really creative. And, um, just being outside and just moving That's something that I always have to do is move. So like, you'll, you'll see me if I'm thinking, you know, my parents make fun of me, they'll see me in the backyard, going back and forth in my wheelchair. And it's just me thinking about something. That's how I get really, really creative. For some reason, me moving makes me more, more creative. The other thing too, I guess this is the last one I'll add is maybe it's because, you know, author and, you know, public speaking, it's kind of my creative field. But writing things out, like, I just like to write things out. There's something about writing that is going to be different than talking. It's like you, when you write it out, you can actually see your thoughts, right? It's, it does something in your brain. You can see your thoughts. And so I, I, um, I write out a lot of thoughts too, and it just helps you get way more clarity on what you actually think. And then it leads to new ideas. It's like, wait, what about this? I never thought about doing it like this. Maybe I should add that in. And so, yeah, does that answer your question?

Yeah, those are terrific. And I'll be honest, sleep is the one I struggle with the most. I just have the hardest time. I think probably a lot of us in, in the way that we live. I'm currently in a master's program. Last night I was up until after midnight working on an exam and just, yeah, it's just sleep is one of those things that you're right, it's so important and yet can be so elusive, and yet we need it. So I appreciate your input there, and I think those are great things. Um, a good walk by the way, or a good run when you're able to. Being able to get outdoors sometimes can open up things so well and really help the synapses to start snapping again sometimes, for sure. So, well, this has been great. And I did want to ask you one more question. There's some really, you know, believe this or not, listeners are going to know this, you know this, there's a lot of bad theology out there. And I don't know how people get this, because our Savior obviously set the example as one who was a suffering servant. You know, he was one that went to the cross, because he loved us. And it was so dear to the heart of God that he would suffer for mankind and be one who suffers with us. And, and yet so many people, when it comes to faith, they feel like when it comes to suffering, they go, well, why me? You know, And, and, and it feels like when I look at your story, you are presenting an accurate and good theology, not of shaking your fist to the heavens and going, "Why me, Lord?" but almost as if to say, "Well, why not me? Because I'm as human as anyone else, and I walk this earth like anyone else." I wonder when you are asked that question, when someone comes up to you and says, you know, "How do you reconcile suffering with your beliefs? What, what do you say to someone, um, maybe if they're wondering how you're struggling with it, I guess?

Well, so this is, this is where I love talking about God and philosophy. So I first ask them, well, what, what, what is your problem with it? Is it a logical one? Because then we'll have to go with the apologetic answer, right? If you want the apologetic answer, I can give that to you. There seems to be no logical contradiction between you know, suffering and God, they imply that there's some type of logical contradiction. So we have to really dig it out of them. But that's, you know, the more philosophical route. But most people don't, you know, they're not going out that way. They're going out like, well, you know, there's a God out there that is all loving and knows everything and all powerful, then why is he allowing people to suffer or whatever? And well, for me, I have no issue with it because it makes sense that we live in a fallen world. And so I, you know, try to give them that basic answer. But for me, it's just like suffering has made, has made, um, some of the greatest impact. It really develops your character. It really makes you do great things. I mean, if we look at, okay, if you look at Paul, for example, I believe he wrote Philippians in when he was imprisoned. And it's like, that wouldn't have happened if he wasn't imprisoned. And like, that book has impacted a lot, a lot of people. Um, and to me it's just like, the thing that God— like, where in the Bible does it say that you're gonna get like a super like materialistic life? That's not what you find. You find actually quite the opposite. You're not— you're not gonna— oh, you're gonna have great health. God can give you great health, but it's not like you're not guaranteed, oh, you're gonna get great health and you're going to be great wealth and famous and all these things that are of the world, you know. Um, you know, we're not supposed to set our eyes on, on this world and on our time here. We're supposed to set it on heaven and eternity. And so what you do here, you know, it's like store your treasure up in heaven, right? Don't store your treasure up here. And it's like these things of the world are passing anyways. It's all going to come to an end. You— I mean, okay, even if you're famous, I tell people this all the time, even you're famous super rich and have great health, you're going to die. That's the truth. You're going to die one day. So why don't you still think about God and eternity? Because, because you need to answer that question. Like, this is what I, you know, this is one of my evangelistic messages, is, is no matter what, you should really think about this and question it. Whether you want to question if God exists or not, fine, let's start there. If you want to do that, we have good reasons to believe that God exists. You know, we have the moral argument, we have the, the Kalam cosmological argument, we have the fine-tuning of the universe argument. I mean, we have all these different arguments that philosophers have really worked on that can show us that no, God does exist. And then, you know, my other question to them is, well then, who was Jesus? Because he was very significant, right? Everybody's talking about Jesus across the world in all different types of culture, so he's definitely a, an important person. So then who was he? And I believe the best explanation of Jesus is who he says he was, which is the Son of God. And I think that you can really get to that conclusion by looking at the resurrection. We can see that, okay, you know, all his disciples believe something actually did happen. And then, you know, you might say, well, they were all hallucinating. When have two people ever hallucinated the same thing at the same time? It's never happened. It's never happened. We still don't have it today. It's not happening. So the fact that all these people— I believe it was 500 at once in different locations at different times, right— saw Jesus rise from the dead, and then the fact that the tomb was empty— yeah, I believe the best explanation is he actually rose from the dead. And, and the one fact that I, I love to tell people, and this is a great faith builder as well for the believer, is why did the early church rise so fast after the resurrection. I mean, it spread like crazy. Not only did it spread like crazy, but these people were persecuted and tortured for believing in this new Jesus, right? This risen Jesus. But they did it anyways. That means that they must have been convinced, because who's going to die for a lie? And so I guess where I'm going with this is you asked me about suffering and whatever, and I think that, well, The only great way to explain suffering, if you want to get really philosophical with it, is on a Christian view. I don't think you could really explain suffering on a naturalist view. If you were just to say, well, you know, we're all just random chance and it's just, you know, we're just a product of our environment, whatever. It's like, well, then why do people suffer? Like, I mean, is there no greater significance to why do we— why do we think that we don't want to suffer? And I mean, I guess you can kind of try and explain through a biological lens, but like it doesn't have the— in my opinion, it doesn't have the metaphysical satisfaction, right? Because we're looking for something even bigger than just, just a natural explanation. That's how it feels, at least with, with suffering. And so that would be my answer.

Well, thank you for the answer today. I appreciate you taking time to share that with us. This has been a really Good visit. And I thank you for taking time to stop by and visit on the podcast today. I already told listeners at the beginning of the show today about the website, destroydushan.org. And I will make sure once again, to tell all our listeners that they can go there with an easy click on voicesinmyheadpodcast.com. Or if they go to rickleejames.com, they can find easy ways to click through there. But if If you would, Elijah, before we end our conversation together today, are there any other good ways for people to find out more about you or your organization, or what's the best way for them to get a copy of the book?

Yeah, so if you want to learn more about me and everything I do, you can go to my personal website. It's ElijahJStacy.com. ElijahJStacy.com. If you want to follow me on social media, it's Elijah J. Stacy. Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, wherever. And it's just Elijah, Elijah, J, the letter, and then Stacy, S-T-A-C-Y. And you can find me there. If you want to get the book, you can go to Amazon and you just type in A Small If, A Small If, and get it on Amazon. If you want to learn more about the nonprofit Destroy the Shame, you can go to destroytheshame.org. You can make a donation. You can spread the word about it. That all helps in the fight towards completing the cure for Duchenne muscular dystrophy. So that's how you can connect with me and get in touch and get the book.

Terrific. Well, Elijah, it's been a real pleasure. And as I say to my guests every week, thank you for being one of the Voices in My Head this week.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website, website at rickleejames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that The more likes we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.