Word Balloon's John Siuntres - Episode 377

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Welcome to Voices in My Head, the official podcast of me, Rick Lee James.

I'm a recording artist, a singer, a songwriter, an author, a worship leader, and an ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene. The Voices in My Head podcast is where I discuss music, movies, books, pop culture, theology, and more with friends, colleagues, and sometimes just by myself. Now make sure to let me know what you think of today's episode by leaving me a review on iTunes or by tweeting at me @RickLeeJames on Twitter. And please join my mailing list at RickLeeJames.com where you can receive an email every time a new episode is released. By the way, in case you're interested in a daily dose of kindness and encouragement beyond this podcast, I also run the Twitter account @MrRogersSay where I post daily quotes from Fred Rogers, one of the voices in my head. Well, I guess that's it for the intro, so sit back, relax, and listen to the latest episode of Voices in My Head.

Welcome back to Voices in My Head. As always, I'm your host, Rick Lee James, and I'm so glad that you're here for Another great conversation today. My guest today on Voices in My Head is John Suntras. John is a pioneer in the realm of podcasting, and his show Word Balloon truly is one of the greatest comic book conversation shows ever made. Word Balloon features one-on-one interviews with the writers and artists behind today's pop culture favorites, the creative mind— minds behind today's hottest comics, films, and television. They tell behind-the-scenes stories, providing a DVD-like commentary on their works without spoiling The stories. I have been a Word Balloon listener for over a decade, and I am thrilled to dig a little deeper today and find out more about the man who created it. He's Midtown High's very own Principal Suntris, John Suntris. Welcome to Voices in My Head.

Rick, a pleasure. I really appreciate you reaching out and asking me on. I have needle-dropped your music, and I'm a fan. It's, uh, you make great music, man. It's a pleasure.

Well, thank you.

I really appreciate that, and it's so good to be able to talk to you today. Uh, what people probably don't people know when they listen to my show is that your podcast was one of the inspirations for my show, actually.

Wow.

And I, I just loved listening to it. I travel as a musician— well, I used to before the COVID-19 pandemic happened— but you were always one of my companions when I would drive. I would listen to podcasts with various interviews. And when I got the idea to do a show, I thought, man, I think I could do that and do some conversations about various things. And so I landed on the name Voices in My Head because I didn't want to be stuck to just topic, and I love a lot of different things. And yours is one that I have just listened to again and again over the years. So many great episodes. So I'm really glad to have a chance to speak with you and let some of my listeners who may not be familiar with what you do know a little bit more about it today.

High praise, man. No, thank you very much. And it's very nice to hear when someone like yourself says that my show inspired you to do what we do. And yeah, it's, it's great to learn about people It's great to delve, be, you know, into the creative process and find out the influences of our favorite creative people and what makes them tick.

Well, thanks so much. Well, I don't do it or even claim to do it nearly as well as you do, and I don't have a great radio voice like you do. That's one of my favorite things about your show for sure. But to use a comic book term today, I'd love to dive in a little bit as we start just about your secret origin. I wonder if you would mind sharing just some of your backstory with us, maybe kind of where you grew up and how you got started in radio and podcasting, things like that?

Well, I grew up in suburban Chicago. I've lived in Chicago most of my life. And I loved radio, you know, radio, especially information radio, was kind of the internet before the internet, still is. And I was fascinated by even the news stations and literally would spend summer nights at 3 in the morning. And I'm like, wow, they are like, you know, giving us information at the moment, 24 hours, didn't matter, 7 days, you know, no breaks for holidays or anything like that. They were always there. So I was always fascinated by radio. Um, and, uh, and also the flexibility of radio in terms of, uh, the creative side. I really appreciated, uh, a lot of sketch comedy and, um, radio dramas as a little kid and really thought, wow, you could really create a world. Just with audio. Yeah, so I really was at a very young age like, this is what I want to do. In fact, uh, man, and again, showing my age, I'm in my mid-50s. For the bicentennial, my, uh, our school did a big play, our middle school, and, uh, they asked me to be the narrator. And I think it was like 7th grade, something like that, maybe 6th grade. Um, no, actually maybe 5th grade now that I think about it. But anyway, um The teachers couldn't have been like kinder. And they're like, John— I was the narrator of the, of the pageant, I suppose.

Sure.

Uh, because there was singing and acting and stuff. And, uh, and they're like, my God, you, you should really consider being a radio person. You know, I'm a 5th grader, for God's sake. And I'm like, oh, that sounds cool, and I like the radio, maybe I will do that eventually. And, um, and we had a high school radio station, so I was very lucky. So really, at 14, I even got, uh, I went to the FCC and got my They don't offer them anymore, but third class radio license that you needed to operate equipment back then, 1979. I still have it framed because it was pretty cool.

Wow, that's great.

Yeah, so I did 4 years of high school radio and then I went to Illinois State University, downstate Illinois, Central Illinois, and worked down there at the college radio station. Got involved with a professional station and started doing soft rock back then, you know, as they would say. Yeah, I mean, it was oldies and it was easy listening music. That was a lot of fun. And so I was a DJ for the first couple of years of my radio career. Then I came to Chicago and lucked out and broke into sports talk radio. And my particular sport where I really did get to do a lot was boxing, of all things.

Sure.

And I would go to Vegas and Atlantic City and New York and all over the country and get to cover fights, and this was in the '90s. So I did a good portion of Mike Tyson's fights and Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield and, uh, yeah, Julio César Chávez. Great fighters. Roy Jones. I mean, really, it was a— I think it was really the last great decade for boxing. I mean, the last 20 years have been kind of up and down, and there have been significant fights, but I do think that was the last time that the sport had the nation's interest year-round rather than, oh, look, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao are going to fight 5 years ago, whatever it was. So yeah, it was sports talk radio and I was working in sporting— I spent 10 years working in Chicago at the local sports station. Then I was with a network that was Sporting News Radio and Paul Allen, one of the Microsoft billionaires, bought the Sporting News magazine, the great sports magazine over a century old, and this one-on-one sports radio network and merged the two, kept the branding of Sporting News. And it was a typical internet company where people are like, you know, the people worked at the company, hey, if you got a great idea, let us know. And, you know, maybe, maybe we can work it into our bigger scheme. And Paul Allen had created the Science Fiction Museum in Seattle. And I had, and every now and then I would check out the website and I saw one weekend they were doing, they had cartoonists, local cartoonists come and work with kids and have like a cartoonist workshop for kids.

Nice.

So yeah, and this was 2005 and podcasting had already started. Adam Curry started in 2004 and we all point to this great article in Wired magazine about podcasting from February of 2005.. And so I just suggested to the company and I'm like, hey, you know, for the museum, would you guys be interested in any sort of kind of nerd culture podcast? I'm like, you know, I'd, I'd be happy to host it. It'd help promote the museum. I'm like all the different facets. And in my mind I'm like, oh man, maybe I'll be able to talk to, you know, Star Trek actors or somebody. Yeah. Star Wars or something like that. And they were very nice and they're like, no thanks, but no thanks. But you know, that's a great idea. You should really pursue it yourself.

Hm.

And I was already like, yeah, no kidding. I'm going to do it no matter whether I'm working with you or not. So I figured out how to do it. I started Word Balloon May 10th, 2005. So yeah, I just celebrated my 15th anniversary back in May. And yeah, luckily I had enough radio background because by then I had worked in radio for— in Chicago radio for 15 years.

Wow.

And 5 years earlier down in central Illinois. So I kind of knew how to do reasonable interviews and not be, uh, uh, you know, or whatever, a lot of long pauses and dead air and kind of, uh, you know, again, knew how to conduct a conversation. So, and luckily, as I always use, uh, the great old comedian George Burns when he talked about, uh, the great radio comedians and how popular they were. And he said, oh, we were all in the top 10. There were only 8 of us. And that was, that was kind of the deal with, with podcasting. There were so few people doing comic book podcasting, let alone interview comic book podcasting. And that was kind of my way in. And luckily, a lot of the people that I've spoken to, uh, in the ensuing years have become, uh, you know, real players in the television and film fields, and novelists as well. I mean, I— you know, God, here's the— you want the, uh, the quadruple threat? My buddy Greg Rucka, who I've known for 15 years. Was a novelist, broke into comics, started writing Batman, uh, did his own creator-owned comics, among them the comic book Stumptown, which has since become an ABC television show. Had a great first year, got renewed for a second year. And, uh, on Friday as we're recording, uh, Netflix will premiere a movie, The Old Guard, with Charlize Theron. A great, uh, military action movie. Oh, and based on Greg's comics. So Greg's got, uh, film— his foot in— and he wrote the screenplay for it. Not only is it based on his work, but he did get to write the screenplay. So there's film, television, comics, and novels, and that's kind of the four that I like to cover on Word Balloon. And it's, you know, or Jeff Loeb, my good friend Jeff, who, uh, you know, up until this year after Kevin Feige kind of took over all things Marvel— comics, film, and television— he was the president of Marvel Television. Um, you know, Robert Kirkman is a good acquaintance, uh, not as close to some of my other friends, but I remember when Robert's like, yeah, I got this idea, man, for a zombie thing. It's called The Walking Dead. And it's like, all right, whatever, Robert. That's, you know, good luck with that. Whatever. I'm not a big zombie guy, but okay. You know, and look where Robert is now. Robert's the George, you know, he's the George Lucas of zombies, for gosh sakes.

Exactly.

Yeah. So, so yeah. So then Bendis, of course, my dear friend Brian Bendis is kicking butt and, you know, doing well. I'm trying to keep myself, Rick, because I, you know, I'm a, I'm a potty mouth. So I'll try, I will watch myself for your, for the benefit of your audience and everything.

No, that we appreciate it.

No problem.

Absolutely, man.

That's all right. Well, there you go.

I mean, that's, I mean, I started in '05 and luckily, like I said, there were so few others out there. And luckily through word of mouth, creator to creator, people were really kind and said, oh no, talk to SunTrust. He knows what he's doing. Cuz as I always say, the greatest thing and worst thing about podcasting is, and I mean both ends of this, anyone can do it.

Yeah.

And, and you, there is no gatekeeper. It is your own tolerance for doing it because I know some people will do it for a little while and be like, Yeah, right. That's enough. And then get kind of bored with it or frustrated. They maybe don't— aren't hitting enough people that they want or whatever. But coming as they did so early, I love the term pioneer. I absolutely will claim that. And then, yeah, wear that as a badge of honor because so many celebrities will be like, oh man, I've been doing this forever.

Really?

When'd you start? Oh, 2010. It's like, all right, got 5 years on you, but whatever. That's cool.

Yeah.

You know, so yeah, so it's great.

Well, and truly, you had— you really came at a good time doing the podcast, but also your show is, is really a notch above. As you said, there's both ends of the spectrum. There are people that really probably shouldn't be doing podcasts that do them in many levels. And, uh, you know, I actually think I first discovered your show through the Spider-Man Crawl Space podcast because I was listening to them probably when I first discovered what a podcast was. I had recently gotten— this will take us back to when, you know, there weren't iPhones yet, there were just iPods, and I had like an iPod, and I remember listening to that show. And one of them on that show mentioned the Bendis Tapes, and I don't know if they were called the Bendis Tapes at that time, but, you know, just the shows that you would do and the long conversations that you would have with with Bendis. And I thought, well, I like him. I want to— you know, I was into the Ultimate Spider-Man at that time. And really, it was because of them and the draw of Bendis that led me to your show in the first place. And I just never looked back ever since then. It's a great way to have those conversations. And I love the long form, especially when I'm on the road or something and I've got a long trip ahead of me. It's great to just kind of turn on the conversation, and you feel like you're a part of it in some way, even though you're just listening in. And so it was a really great format, I think, that you discovered. The name was great— Word Balloon. It automatically makes you think comic books and the whole genre that you were dealing with in those ways. And so I've just really enjoyed it.

I go—

I'm sorry, please.

No, no, no, go ahead.

Please continue. More about me.

No, yeah, more about you. Exactly. No, I, I want you to feel free to interject for sure.

This is very relaxing to say is what you like about the show Years ago, the great film critic Gene Siskel from Chicago, we had a, we had a great afternoon radio show, really funny. And both guys are still active in Chicago radio but are no longer a team. Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer. And Gene Siskel said the great thing about listening to Steve and Gary in the afternoons when you're driving around is like having two really funny friends in the backseat of your car. Cracking you up while you're driving. And that really stuck in my head for the really longest time. And it's like, that's the kind of radio show I want to do. And essentially, Word Balloon is the radio show that I've always wanted to do without having the restrictions of having to break every 6 minutes for a commercial break. Or even in public radio, I am very— I, you know, you saw me on camera before we started recording and stuff. I'm a big guy. I'm a big heavy guy. So I do things to excess. And I, having come from, God, now 30 years in radio and having to kind of, you know, keep it short, don't forget there's a commercial coming up and stuff like that. It is so nice to have a free deep dive conversation with no restrictions. And the other example I always give is if I had gotten George Lucas to come on Word Balloon, maybe he will someday, who knows? But, but, you know, if you had that chance, You don't want a radio exec going, well, you know, you probably ought to keep that to 12 minutes. And meanwhile, George Lucas is willing to spend 2 hours with you. Bendis is a perfect, perfect example of that. It's like, if you are really into Bendis's writing or anyone that— one of my guests— why would you limit yourself to a half hour, 10 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever? And I also know that the younger generations are And our society is geared to being more of a short attention span thing. I'm shrugging right now. All I can say is I am like, hey, if you, if, if, uh, creator, like let's say Bendis wants to sit down and is willing to spend 2 hours, I can spend 2 hours. I'll find a way of listening to that whole 2 hours. I mean, my God, all of my favorite podcasters from Gilbert Gottfried to Joe Rogan. And people like that, they have 2-hour and 3-hour conversations. And if the, if the conversation is good, it will hold your attention. And there's something called the pause button. Yeah, I do that all the time. I was listening, running errands this morning, and I'm 30 minutes into a 90-minute Gilbert Gottfried episode. Okay, I'll get back to it when I'm shopping or working out or something like that. So, no, it's wonderful. And I just think that there is so little long-form entertainment that is worth listening to. So that's, that's the ambition. So to hear you say that, I, I'm glad that I am succeeding with you.

Well, and you do a great job with the aspect that you give them a chance to talk to. You're a really good, not only conversationalist, but I think you're a good listener too, which is so much of what podcasting is when you're interviewing people. And, uh, it probably gives them an outlet that as writers or people who are in film are so often behind the camera. I'm sure they don't always get a chance to talk about these things the way they would like. They're doing the work, but I'm sure they don't always have a sounding board like that.

Again, that's the ambition. I, um, I've spent a lot of time in press junkets with actors, and they're very nice people. And I— and this sounds almost condescending, and I don't mean it to, but I have seen and heard enough actors, especially either— well, actually, either whether it's episodic television or films, say, well, you know, at the end of the day, the writers really, you know, kind of give me the script and I go with that. And not to say that they don't put themselves into the characters, but I believe the keepers of story are the writers, are the directors, and, um, and the artists included in that, and then from a comic sense as well, because they're the camera. They are shooting the scenes that we see.. So the emotions you are looking at when you read a great comic and stuff, that's the artist. And, you know, so I really admire that. And like you say, they don't normally get the forum. And in fact, for The Old Guard, Greg, the Netflix film that Rucka made, you know, Greg kind of pulled strings with marketing and stuff. And they're like, so you just want to talk to our screenwriter? And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, you know, as much as I would love to meet and have a conversation with Charlize Theron, And I'm sure she's a lovely person and I've been a longtime fan of her work. But no, I want to know about the story. I want to know because that's the story. The play's the thing, as Shakespeare said, and it's the truth. I mean, it really is, man. And yeah, I just think— and also the great thing is comics in particular, and one of the reasons why film and television are taking such notice of them of late is all the people now that are writing grew up on comics and went from when it was a medium that was geared to children, and then it was geared to kind of a little older children and stuff. And but, but really, I think the storytelling has evolved, the characterizations have evolved, and they're complex in the best possible way, in the best way that novels are and film and television is.. And I want to help specifically when I do talk to comic people, um, if, if in some small way I'm giving them the forum, the forum to speak and legitimize what they do. And it's so great, uh, it's been a pleasure really in these last 15 years go from people being like, okay, so you talk about comic books, other adults, and, and really, as you know, the top shows, the water cooler shows are the comic book-created shows. And like, the, the success of the CW, uh, my— one of my last full-time radio jobs, it literally— it would be great getting, uh, office workers at the radio station going, okay, explain Reverse Flash to me. And I'm like, sure, sit down, this is gonna take a minute, but no problem. And it was great. And really, God, I really like Gotham. I'm really surprised I like Gotham.

And—

or One of my best friends who did like comics, uh, us growing up, when the Justice League animated series happened, uh, his wife walked in on the two of us watching an episode and she's like, you're watching cartoons? And he's like, hon, honest, I know, but like the writing and the acting is just— I, all I can say is seriously, this is like good as any television show right now. And again, the Japanese were already doing it. You know, anime and stuff like that. Um, thank God the American culture has caught up. And even as you might know, in recent interviews talking to Patrick Schumacher, the showrunner of the Harley Quinn animated series, or James Tucker, who is the supervising writer-producer of the DC animated films, it's like, no, there has really been this evolution not only in the comics but also in the TV and film-inspired product The Marvel Universe speaks for itself. Nobody— it's, uh, I, I always quote movies. It's, uh, uh, Milo Ventimiglia, uh, in Rocky Balboa, the, the last movie where Rocky's fighting, and he's like, nobody's laughing anymore. And it's like, yeah, nobody's laughing at comic books anymore.

They get it.

And it's like, no, we really are, man. You know, we, uh, meaning all of us comic book fans, we represent the mainstream now. And that's really cool, and it's exciting, and it's a thrill to have gone from when Sin City and Batman Begins were happening and were well-received movies, but it was kind of the start. I mean, I, you know, I guess you could say Blade and the Wesley Snipes movies, I think, really the start of when, when the movies really started happening. But, uh, but yeah, at least when I was thinking about doing this in 2005, those were the movies on my mind— Batman Begins and Sin City. And it's like, no, something's happening right now. And you very rarely catch a wave at the right time. But I, I think I was, I was fortunate, and then with my radio background, was prepared for it.

Yeah, it's, it's a really weird thing that has happened over really, I guess, the last decade, especially once Marvel really blew up. And now everybody is a, at least comic book hero fan, whether they read the comics or not, right? And it's, it's so strange that you're exactly right. People that would never have talked to me about subjects that related to anything comic book before, now we just to have conversations because they're into it. And they— some of them have never cracked a comic book before, but they love the movies and they enjoy the TV shows. And, you know, you've got things like, like The Boys that came on Amazon, shows like that that are even not the mainstream. They're more obscure. You have to be a little bit more entrenched in comics to know those things. And, and now you don't have to be quite as entrenched in comics because they're right there and they're being provided on those platforms. So it's fascinating to see Um, there are times— I don't know if you feel this way at all— there are times I really love that, and there are times I feel like, yeah, I also kind of miss when I was the only one that knew about that, you know what I mean?

Like, we're all like that as a musician. You can appreciate that. I mean, yeah, sure, you know, we used to— like, when, you know, like U2. I mean, I, I used to love U2 when they were in— when I was in high school and, uh, Boy and War, those first albums, and they were angry and, oh, you know, I will follow, and yes, I understand their political message, and I get it. And then by the time of— oh God, after Unforgettable Fire, some of the early '90s stuff, I'm like, God, get off the bus, man. This used to be the cool bus. I mean, so no, I totally get it and I agree. Yeah, I want to mention The Boys. What I love about The Boys and I think is interesting, it really is a parody of the success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe because it really does treat that group of heroes as this amazing marketing tool, as the films themselves are, and the merchandise machine that they've become. But also, again, this really dark human side that they are keeping from the public. So it's this great subversive parody of, I think, like I said, the success of what's happening. And I don't even think that was part of the original intent. Of the comic book that the guys were writing and stuff. But, um, yeah, I just think— and that's the other great thing about adaptation is what do you do with it? I mean, I still like, um, the, uh, the Robbie Rodriguez Sin City films. I think they're terrific. But, and, or Zack— even I, I'm in the minority, but I like Zack Snyder's Watchmen movie. They're very literate adaptations of the source material. But I kind of like the license to adjust things for a film or television that the successful programs, or even the critically accepted programs, have been able to do. Where they kind of, yeah, you know this, but we're going to change things. God, the Watchmen adaptation on HBO— yeah— was just fascinating. And man, that was high stakes because everything, including the Zack Snyder film, that has come since the original comic, all of us diehard fans are like, yeah, nice try, but, uh, you kind of missed the point. I mean, again, that's the minority feeling. I, like I said, I still like— I think Snyder's film ages quite well, the 2009 Watchmen movie. Um, but, but again, it— like, everyone had to be hip to the idea. And then Lindelof comes along and does that, those great 9 episodes of the HBO show, and it's like Good for you, man, because that is a tall order. That's like, yeah, one of the greatest comic stories ever. And even Dave Gibbons himself, uh, and I'm so glad because I remember when before Watchmen came out, the DC prequels that they made about 10 years ago, um, Dave was very careful with his words and really kept his cards close to the vest in terms of his opinion. I think because of that you could sense that he wasn't happy that DC was doing it, while it was certainly within their rights, he could not say enough great things about the HBO show. And that was really delightful to hear when he was on my show back in December. Yeah.

And man, what a punch to the gut they start with, even in that series, the very first episode, starting with the Tulsa Massacre. That honestly, maybe it's just me, but I don't think it was. I didn't even realize that was part of our history. You know, it's why that one of the only parts of the show that actually was real life starting off. And I just showed that opening scene, uh, to my wife not too long ago, just because we're in the middle of this very significant moment that we're in right now, where people are, are fed up with the status quo of the way things have been. And, um, and I showed that to my wife and I said, you know, I had never heard of this until this Watchmen show.. And we sat down for the opening 10 minutes or whatever that was, which is a very hard 10 minutes to watch. And you're just, you're just seeing the bombers come in and the people being dragged through the street, and you're going, this was real? Like, we really did this to them? You know, it's, it's unbelievable. So it's one of those examples where I think you can actually use the medium for something very important and very significant. And I think I think partially maybe one of the reasons that there's an appetite for conversation for change right now, I don't know that this is entirely true, but I think it's some true that a lot of people saw programs like that and thought, "You know what? We need to have this conversation that we have not had in a long time." And I think that's a powerful tool that something like the creativity with the Watchmen story that they did in that series. It can be something very powerful, I think.

So I agree. And I also think that thankfully, uh, beyond The Watchmen, um, a great comic book series from Image by Sanford Greene and Dave Walker and, uh, and Chuck Brown as well, it's called Bitterroot. And it is an interesting supernatural thing that happens during the Harlem Renaissance. And again, it's these portions of Black history that just were never given a mainstream platform to explore and discover. And this is— I mean, again, these are the positives that are coming out of the zeitgeist in, in terms of, uh, the different people of color telling these stories and having the pla— I mean, we're always looking for— and, and I say this in a clinical sense, not to mitigate the sadness of some of these stories, But we are always looking for intense, interesting stories. And I do think that there is a hunger for that, uh, at a, a machine like the Hollywood system, that there's never enough good stories, there's never enough interesting things to explore and exploit in, in terms of a marketing way, not a crass way when I say exploit. And, uh, and that's the thing. So I do think that Thankfully, the power brokers recognize that there's a significant demographic that has long been ignored, that continues to be a big part of certainly the American culture, but really the global culture of we have stories as well that you haven't heard, and they would shock you, they would inspire you, they would entertain you at the, at the end of the day. And that's the name of the game. And I do think that it's great that, um, again, we are reminded of these terrible things that happen. We should be reminded of those. This is no different than Germany coming to terms with its own atrocities over the decades, and, and any other culture that, uh, had a superiority over others. And, and we can't forget that because, I mean, I, you know, I'm a, I'm a Greek American, so my Although my ancestors were white, they were immigrants. So, you know, they weren't pilgrims. They weren't the class of the founding fathers or the ethnicity of the founding fathers. So they had their limitations as well. Not as high as the other people of color or orientation or women, certainly. But I mean, that's the thing. It's like, no, this is what makes America great is hearing all these different stories. So it's good that all of it's coming to light.

And there's another one I was thinking of that is a graphic novel, and I don't know if you came across it, but he might be a great guest for your show if you haven't had him already. His name is Ben Passmore, and he wrote and was actually the illustrator for a book called Your Black Friend. And it's, it's a little short graphic novel that has a lot to do with things that we as white people just don't understand because we're not living it, you know. And it's the kind of thing that, you know, in, in the position that I'm in, you know, I, I can try to get somebody to read a book book, you know, on Black liberation theology or something because of the field I'm in, but they won't read it, you know. But I could hand them a shorter book, graphic novel like this, and say, hey, if you want to spend 10 minutes and completely have your world transformed by things you've never thought about before, like read Your Black Friend by Ben Passmore, and he's going to enlighten you, you know, in a quick way. So I think there is a lot of power to the medium when it's used properly, and I think that's a really good thing.

Well, even as mundane, real fast, like Will Eisner, you know, I don't know if you know, but like between when he created The Spirit in the '40s and into the early '50s, for decades he worked for the government and created this magazine called PS Magazine because he convinced the military specifically that instead of handing servicemen boring technical manuals explaining things, of how to make things or whatever, or build things, or proper procedure, put them in comic book form, put a little humor in there. And, and for decades he was doing this for the government. And then when he was done with it, he turned it over to Joe Qubert, and Joe Qubert continued to do it. But yeah, no, yeah, I mean, that's the thing, man. It's like, comics are entertaining. It's usually the first way that we teach children how to read. That's how I learned how to read. I'm sure that's your case as well.

Same here.

Yeah, man. I mean, that's, that's the great— and, you know, seriously, my dad had a 9th grade education, and, and I was lucky to be a child when Sesame Street was happening and first on the air. And they had a thing in conjunction with the newspapers where they ran comic strips to help you learn how to read. And I, as a, as a kindergartner, I was reading always a grade ahead through 3rd grade where they had me in a grade above because my reading skills were superior. And they're like, we don't want to hold him back, let him read. And, and I know that sparked my imagination and excitement. And, uh, yeah, so I, you know, again, you're right, comics, comics can teach and do it in an entertaining way that are much easier to digest than a novel or, or a technical manual.

Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I, I want to actually talk before we, uh, go to go too far in our conversation today because I just don't have a chance to talk to you about some of the great interviews all the time that I've enjoyed over the years. So I kind of made a list of a few that I really enjoyed and would love to just bring those up to you and kind of get your feel— what was that like type of thing?

Sure.

Because there's some good ones. But just before I do that, I wonder if you could maybe help us understand a little bit ways that we can help you as listeners a little bit, because you're doing the podcast right now, and after a long time in radio and I can let you explain it. We've all been hit by pretty hard times right now due to the COVID-19 and all of that, but there is a Patreon account that you have, patreon.com/wordballoon, and I'd love for you just maybe kind of in the middle of our conversation tell us a little bit kind of about your present situation and ways that we can help through things like Patreon to help you continue what you're doing.

No, thanks, Rick. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's— a lot of people have found themselves in this situation. I was in Chicago radio for many years, and my most recent job, it wasn't a full-time job, but I was working at the CBS news station doing traffic reporting. And it was much more interesting than I thought it would be, but it wasn't what I expected to be doing in radio. I'm a conversationalist. I expected to be doing hosting talk shows and producing talk shows and things, but it was a good job and I didn't, I didn't mind Well, you know, again, we were 24/7 with traffic, but because of COVID there weren't as many cars on the road and certainly not late at night. So they cut back on several shifts. It's 7 days a week. There was no longer an evening or a nighttime or an overnight shift. So that cut a lot of hours. And I was downsized. I wasn't furloughed. I was, I was, you know, they're like, hey, we're sorry, we just, we have to cut you. And a lot of people that are still employed there aren't even working weekly and might only work 2 days a month or something as far as part-timers. So luckily Word Balloon exists, and I had already had this Patreon, a crowdfunding monthly thing, kind of in the same model as sponsoring public television or public radio. And so I reached out to my audience again. I've been doing it for 15 years. And honestly, it's like, hey, if you can spare a dollar a month, if you like what I do, can you spare a dollar a month? Can you spare the price of a comic book a month? Is what I— the hours— because I do— I mean, even prior to the pandemic, I was putting out about 12 episodes at least a month. And I mean, now I'm doing, you know, 4 to 5 episodes a week. So now I'm up to around 20 episodes a month. And it's like, okay, is that giving you enough entertainment in that same hobby sphere that your comic reading is happening and stuff. Is it worth the price of a comic book? Is it worth the price of a dollar? Give me a dollar a month if you can, if you can afford it, because hey man, like you said, we're all struggling. So, so yeah, it's patreon.com/wordballoon. Uh, I'm very pleased that I want to keep the show free, and I, and I think it makes sense because I still want to build my audience. I'm sure I am not Joe Rogan, I am not Adam Carolla, name your favorite. Mainstream celebrity. I'm not Conan O'Brien, as I think of mainstream people that have podcasts and do quite well at them and stuff. But yeah, I just— I wouldn't— I'd like to be— I mean, my ambition has always been, can I make this a full-time concern? That's not anyone's responsibility. But if you enjoy it, yeah, you know, it's like it's a tip. Hey, it's no different than tipping your waiter or whatever. So it's like, yeah, you know, and again, I'm not greedy. I don't want anyone to spend money they don't have. Can you spare $12 a year? I mean, it's that simple. And, you know, and that's kind of my humble hope in terms of asking. And I feel weird because, I mean, again, I came from commercial radio where it's like, hey, everything's free and it's underwritten. I have sponsors and they help and everything, but the patrons really do a big share of it as well. And I'm very thankful for that. And it's right now it's going well. It's allowing me to figure out other things that I think I will be transcribing. I'm in the process of transcribing my interviews.— and making a few books. Maybe I could see this almost being an annual, uh, given the amount of interviews that I've done over the years. And I do think it is interesting to see the trajectory of careers of where a lot of these creatives have started and their thoughts on these characters, because we do— we all think about these characters beyond the stories. And it is like, especially if we are passionate about some of these characters, we think about Batman beyond him punching the Joker.. And we think about his psychology or Superman's psychology or the Marvel heroes. And I do think that there is a very passionate group of fans. That's why they've made the TV shows and the films and stuff. And it's just, um, it's interesting to hear the people that write the stories, what they think about the characters and how they, and how they go beyond what they're able to say on the page. Greg Rucka, I mean, my God, hasn't written a Batman story I— well, I'm sure he might have written one for the Detective 1000 that's coming up, 1027, but, um, you know, not a regular monthly Batman story for years. But he still has thoughts about that Batman that we explore in our conversations. It's interesting. It's again Bendis with Superman and Spider-Man, the Avengers, the various characters, the Legion and the, the Young Justice team and stuff. Bendis has a lot of thoughts about those characters, and some people agree and they— some people disagree, but it's interesting. And I do think I think the audience wants to hear about them.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's some, some great conversations still to be had after all these years with so many great people, for sure. Well, you know, let's talk about some of those conversations that you have had. And by the way, for the listeners, you can go to patreon.com/wordballoon, as we already talked about. It would be great if you could support John and his work. But I'm also going to make sure that we have links to everything I can think of pertaining to what John does at voicesinmyheadpodcast.com on this episode page. So if you have a chance and just want to have like an easy place to click all the places at once, you can do that. But let's, let's talk first of all, because I want to ask you about some of your favorite moments. And, and I'm going to give you a second to kind of think about that while, while I ask you about some of my favorite moments on your show, if that makes sense. Because you've had some guests that I really enjoy. And one thing, this is going to be actually not pertaining to comic books necessarily at all, but it's just so unique to find something like this. My family, we have recently rediscovered The Beverly Hillbillies through the IMDb app, okay? And my son is at the age— he's 7 years old, so this is like the first time he's ever seen black-and-white TV anyway. But it's, but it's hilarious, you know, you watch it and it's still just so funny. And I remember one of the really interesting interviews you had was with Max Baer Jr., who played Jethro on the show. And you re-aired it, I think it was originally a radio broadcast that you did, but you re-aired shared it on Word Balloon. And it seems like, and I'd have to go back and listen to it a little bit, that he didn't want to talk about the Beverly Hillbillies at all, but he would talk about his dad who was a boxer. And I would just love to hear, what was that like for you to have a chance to get to talk to Max Baer Jr.?

Well, he was great. And honestly, the timing of the interview was during when Ron Howard's movie Cinderella Man about James Braddock came out. And Max Baer is the villainous champ that's depicted in the film. And, um, and there's a— again, this is the thing about Hollywood is a lot— some people really think that when they see a fictionalized version of true events that they're watching a documentary. And I have a lot of, sadly, sports guys that like saw Raging Bull and really thought everything in there was like, you know, absolutely it happened. Now it was based on LaMotta's book book, but you know, it's also LaMotta's point of view, and there's a little truth maybe in there and some not truth, artistic license. Even more so in Cinderella Man. And this is when Sporting News Radio— I had done those interviews for the Sporting News Radio— they had Ron Howard on, uh, the morning show. And I said, you gotta ask about his depiction of Max Baer Sr., the former heavyweight champion. And I said, because they really make him out to be an arrogant jerk. And the reality is, as I knew it from people like Muhammad Ali's former trainer-manager Angelo Dundee and, uh, my friend Burt Sugar of Boxing Illustrated, um, like Max was— Max Senior was one of the nicest guys in boxing. He absolutely lost to Braddock, but it's— he didn't take him seriously, and that's depicted in the movie, but he wasn't a jerk. And also, unfortunately, Max killed two guys in the just from being so strong and them not being up to the fights. And, um, he's proud of it in the films, but the reality was it really upset him. I mean, he started chain smoking from it, and it literally haunted him for the rest of his life, as I would imagine that killing someone with your bare hands might actually do. I can only suppose. So I wanted to give, uh, Max Jr. Jethro the chance to— and not to, to meet him, I refer to him as Jethro.

Sure.

But yeah, you know, to say, hey man, look, I, I knew he was bummed about the way Ron had done the movie. And, and, you know, Junior is no dummy. He comes from Hollywood. He understands artistic license and everything. But he's like, my dad wasn't like that. And I'm like, hey, you want a chance to, uh, like plead your father's case? Let's have a conversation. So that's what it primarily was about. And I have, um, collected a lot of my old boxing interviews, and I started a Big Bout podcast. And, um, I've walked away from it temporarily just because I really wanted to be more about boxing history rather than the fights of the moment, even though right now there are very few fights of the moment. Only Top Rank right now is back in the boxing business. Um, but that said, and it was such a great conversation. And yeah, I just— he was terrific. And he really— Max was— Max Senior was a complicated guy. Go to the Sun and hear the story. And I did. I'm glad you pointed that out because it is one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. He was— he was incredible. And yeah, I was just glad to give him that opportunity. And, you know, Junior's a smart guy. He's— he was very entrepreneurial. I think he's still with us. I don't think he's passed away yet. But I said, I think he is. I sent him a CD of— because this is pre-MP3s, uh, so I sent him a CD copy of the, of the interview. He was very appreciative of it. And really, like, I, I really was glad that I had that opportunity. And there's just been a few great quirky celeb interviews I've been able to do over the years. I got, even though it was only 15 minutes, Billy Dee Williams last year before Rise, you know, the summer before Rise of Skywalker comes out.

Yeah.

And that was fantastic. And, uh, you know, Bernie, Bernie Capel, Doc from The Love Boat, uh, and Zigfried from the Get Smart show, had a wonderful talk with him at the end of last year. Could not have been sweeter. And I really think he's a really underappreciated supporting actor comedian, uh, and it was really fun talking to him. So those kind of thrills are, are among my non-nerd sphere conversations that I've been able to have where it's like, God, I cannot believe I'm getting to talk to these guys. And these are not— well, with Billy Dee Williams is certainly an icon, but I would say that, you know, obviously Max Baer Jr., Bernie Capel, uh, there are bigger stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame than these guys. But I do think they're interesting and they have interesting stories, and I'm, I'm glad that I was up to the task of pulling these stories out of them and then having these conversations.

Yeah, well, that was definitely a memorable interview for me. It's been a number of years and I still remember it for sure. There's another one I just wanted to mention because I too— it may have actually been you through listening to your show that turned me on to the fact that Dana Gould had a podcast. And I have since listened to every single episode since I discovered it a few years ago.

It's a great show.

Oh man, it's just one of the best. I talk about great conversations that happen and it's funny. And, and, but you had the chance to talk with Dana Gould, and that would have been great just in itself. But then the fact that he was asked to do a graphic novel adaptation of Rod Serling's original script of The Planet of the Apes, I— that has to be a memorable moment.

100%, man. No, and again, already appreciated Dana Gould as a stand-up, appreciated him as a comedy writer working on The Simpsons, um, and Yeah, when Boom Studios sent me the press release, hey, we're adapting Rod's original screenplay and we're getting Danny Gould to do it, because as you know, he's a massive Planet of the Apes fan, to the point where, as I'm sure you know, he will— he's got makeup friends in Hollywood. I forget the specific guy, but he actually has a Dr. Zaius— yes, full costume— and has the face and makes himself up up for public appearances as Dr. Zayas, as if Dr. Zayas were like an old Hollywood kind of, you know, ridiculous guy. Or as he like throws out, like, you know, never find yourself in a gin game with Alan Alda. And it's just like, you know, in those great old Hollywood sort of ways that you hear on those old interviews and stuff. So no, that was terrific. And yeah, like you, I adore his podcast. It's great. He does deep dive conversations. Plus we'll do these essays of great movies or weird Hollywood stories or weird TV shows. And it's— oh my God, it's— it usually only comes out monthly, but it's so worth it. And it's a 3-hour show, and it's like this great variety show podcast. So no, I— when, when the press release came out, I'm like, can I speak to Dana Gould? And they're like, yeah, we think we can make that work. And Dana was excited about the project, so he was happy to talk. And oh man, it was— yeah, it was a real thrill. And again, you know, maybe a C-list celebrity, maybe a B-list celebrity, certainly not, you know, a red carpet A-lister in any way, but really interesting guy, multifaceted, and happy to have that conversation. And also, he inspires me for what I'm trying to do with the podcast because it's what he's doing with his career. And that is— and you might do it as well as a musician, Rick, I don't know what obstacles you have, but it's essentially make your own opportunities. Don't wait around for someone to hand you this dream job. Make it yourself. And he talks about it on his show constantly. And I reminded him of that in our conversation as well. And I'm like, thank you for saying that because especially I, I'm 55 and I don't feel like it's a death sentence or I'm too old to still be doing what I do. Quite the contrary. It is my experience that allows me to create my own opportunities. And I think that's really, really important for creative people is do not get down because— and perfect example, losing the radio job in April and people like, okay, you know, like they were asking me like emotionally, like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, actually I am because that's not what I got into do radio. I enjoyed the experience. But what I want to do is what I do with the podcast, and that's going fine. And I, you know, putting it in movie metaphors, I did a George Bailey, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know, uh, right now I'm out of radio, so if you can help me. Uh, and the audience responded, and the comics community responded beyond. I mean, the audience has been great, but also the pros, uh, are all like, hey, we love what you do, what can we do to help?

Help.

And I'm like, be on the show. I'm like, you know, hey, if you want to support the Patreon, that's great. I go, but you know, you're giving me the content by showing up. Be on the show. So, and I really, during COVID I've been upping the, uh, the episodes, um, just because I feel like, well, Christ, we're all stuck inside. Let's, um, what can I do to entertain you? What can I do to take your mind off the 24/7 news cycle of despair.

Yeah.

That we're subjected to, not to mitigate the importance of knowing what's going on, both the health concerns and the political demonstrations that are going on. But to say, okay, remember what you like about nerd stuff? I'm here. Don't worry, we'll have a fun conversation. It's gonna be fun.

Yeah.

So yeah, there you go.

Well, you know, I, and I want to, I want to give you a chance to, to talk about maybe if there is kind of one of your personal favorite moments, but I'm just gonna mention one, one more of mine.

And also, by the way, many— the ones you've named, I absolutely would put on my list. I mean, there's— there are probably— I could easily name 100 if I had to, but go ahead.

Wow, that's great. Well, you know, and we lost him recently, but your conversations with Marty Pascoe, I just really enjoyed those because I've been— you know, of all the heroes over the years that that I've loved. And Superman, you know, has always been a favorite, and especially like classic Superman stories. And so I collect not just Superman comics, but, you know, I try to find any of the figures or anything like that. It was so much fun, you know, to get to hear Marty on your show talk about so many things, including Superman. And that was, for me, those were just some of the great conversations. And of course with Denny O'Neil, and there's been some great ones recently of these these greats that have passed away.

Yeah.

And I really feel like your conversations with people like that, they're, they're really— they, they have become part of, part of comic books themselves, really. Because where else would we have had a chance to really hear from them in that way? We have their work, but I mean, to just get to hear them in that way. And you, you gave such a, a great platform for them. And so I think many of us in the years to come are going to be so appreciative to, to look back at things like that and go, hey, This is really a historical record, you know, that we have of some really valuable conversations with people and not just their work, but actually hearing them. So to me personally, those type conversations are just some of my favorites over the years. But I wonder if you have— do you have a personal favorite moment that you just think like, wow, this was the one for me? You know, I can die a happy man now.

Well, honestly, Rick, I very blessed in terms of— there are so many conversations that I've had that I'm like, God, that went well. And again, I don't mean to sound like I'm patting myself on the back. It really is like, oh, thank God I was up to the moment and prepared, and the guest was enjoying themselves, and we really got into an interesting conversation. Joe Straczynski, J. Michael Straczynski, Rick Lee James, um, 10 years ago when he was writing Superman, um, we didn't know at the time, but apparently he had a real health issue where he thought he was going blind, and so he had to pull himself off of the monthly book. Uh, I will admit that I also— I was not a fan of what he was doing with the character. I had said a few things on the air, and also I was kind of disappointed not knowing that it was for health issues. It was just all of a sudden he's not writing the monthly anymore. And but they— but because his name was on the overarching year plan story, they handed his Superman story to Chris Robertson, a good friend of mine. He was also doing a Wonder Woman story that was taking a year. Not, um, the DC really gave him full control over both characters to the point where they weren't appearing in Justice League stories at the time. They were taken off the, the chessboard, if you will. And it was really Straczynski's story or nothing. And he had very specific ideas for both characters, um, and I felt like, wow, you know, you really screwed up everyone else. Nobody else can tell Justice League stories with these two characters because of what you're doing. Plus you abandon these books. I thought it was lousy, and I let it be known on my podcast. I see him at a convention, Wizard Chicago, or no, C2E2 in Chicago one year. He's signing at the DC and I had never met him, and I'm a massive fan of his writing. I'm a massive fan of Babylon 5, and I approach him and I'm like, "Hi Joe, my name is John Suntorus. I do a podcast called Word Balloon." And he goes, "I know who you are," in a very like a neutral voice. And I'm like, "Uh-oh." And he's like, "I'll never do your podcast." And he walks away and I'm like, "Oh man, okay." And I'm like, "All right, well, I did say some things that weren't flattering." And I rarely critique books. Okay, so cut to— was it last year? I think it was last year. Or was it 2018? Yeah, it was last year. So he comes out with his book Becoming Superman, and his PR people are like, hey, would you like to interview Joe? And I'm like, okay, it was 10 years ago. Maybe he forgot. Maybe, you know, maybe he's put it behind him. I have no idea. And I'm like, so I don't want to tip anything, but I write back to the PR people, if Joe would like to talk to me, it would be an honor. And I meant that sincerely. Because I am. I'm a massive fan of Babylon 5. I think he's an excellent writer. I loved his Marvel work. I liked a lot of his other DC work, like when he was writing on Brave and Bold and things like that. So I was prepared for that conversation. I read the book cover to cover. They sent it to me in advance. I— it was all about his career. I mean, I even knew he wrote one of my favorite, uh, '70s audio drama shows called Alien Worlds. A great— yes. Great. Okay, good. I'm glad you're aware of it. A great sci-fi show. And, uh, so I was ready and, uh, we had a great conversation. I knew his history with the '80s Twilight Zone. Oh, by the way, did you know I live in Charles Beaumont's house, one of the original Twilight Zone writers? No, I didn't. That's amazing, Joe. Things like— I mean, things like that were coming from the conversation very organically. So it was a great— I stuck the landing putting it in pilot terms. I was very happy And I get this great email back from his PR people going, hey, just so you know, Joe really enjoyed talking to you. And I'm like, oh, that's great. Okay, so you see, people don't hold a grudge, or he forgot, or whatever, who cares. So that was very— I would say in recent memory, beyond my friendships with Brian Bendis, with Marty Pascoe— I'm so glad you mentioned Marty. I love Marty, and I— it seriously, it really upset me. And in fact, I kind of cried at one of my closing, uh, things when I represented some of the episodes. Yeah, I left it in because I'm like, you know, I really wanted people to know that this was my friend and I am hurt and I'm sorry that he's not around anymore. And I really do, I miss that guy. He, um, I'll spend a second on Marty and say, uh, it disappointed me that, um, when people talked about Bronze Age writers, he was rarely in the conversation. And that happens to a lot of creators, and especially a lot of pre-1980s creators because I, I just think the fandom— there was a very fervent, uh, magazine fandom, but there wasn't, you know, like certainly the internet. Or by the time of the '80s when the magazines like, um, oh God, Amazing Heroes and the Comics Journal and stuff like that, Marty's name was just never in the conversation. And I'm like— and, and I met him and he was very, very kind of shy and modest. Oh, people don't remember me. I'm I'm like, are you nuts? And so, and really there are guys like that. I have friends that are cartoonists that kind of have that aw shucks attitude about themselves. It's like, no man, you are great. And I am happy to be the loudspeaker saying, hey, this is Marty Pascoe. I don't know if you know, but this guy wrote an amazing Superman. He wrote great television shows. He was on the staff of Roseanne for God's sakes. Wrote Simon, Greg Rucka's favorite detective show, Simon and Simon. Marty wrote that show. I mean, he's just a really interesting guy and is a deep thinker and has a lot of opinions on a lot of different things. So over the course of our friendship, I did hours and hours of conversations with them on the radio, but also we would talk on the phone. I convinced him to go to a couple conventions with me, one in Cincinnati and one in Salt Lake City, and people loved him. He He was the story editor of the Batman Animated Series. And I mean, that was terrific. When the— I think when Mask of the Phantasma, it was the 20th anniversary or something, uh, we were in Salt Lake City and there was a full auditorium that was at— and he was one of the principal writers of that movie— and massive applause. And he was so thrilled. And he's like, I can't believe people remember. And I'm like, yeah, they remember, dummy. I'm like, you know, and then also he's only like about 10 years older than me. Me. So I just really felt this kinship. And by the same token, he would push me. What are you doing? How come you haven't written your book yet? And right now I'm sure he's screaming at me in heaven right now, said, come on, get off your butt, let's go. Yeah, but that was great, honestly. And we would, we'd kind of push each other that way. And man, you know, literally, like I said, uh, last time I had, uh, any correspondence with him was at the end of, uh, March. Then he sent me a really funny email. And I know, John, I'm sorry, I've got a headset. I'll, I'll talk to you, we'll talk in a couple weeks, I promise. Us. And then he passed away, and it's like, oh. And I— he was kind of sick, um, I don't know specifics, um, but yeah, I'm like, ah, damn it, you know.

I'm—

forgive me, but yeah, I'm just like, ah, you know. So yeah, that sucks. Denny O'Neill, we knew he was sick. I mean, and it was sad, but we kind of knew it was coming. Uh, I'm glad I— I'm glad I had the opportunity to have so many conversations with them, especially in the last couple years of his Uh, but yeah, Marty was a shock and a real disappointment. And I have other acquaintances that I consider friends that are a few years older from that Bronze Era. I— Elliot Magin, I'm going to talk to him on Wednesday as we're recording this and have a new conversation with him. And yeah, especially during COVID and how seniors are so susceptible, I am kind of making the rounds with the seniors that I know, not only in comics but also friends and, uh my friends' parents and stuff. Hey, are you okay and everything? And also, are you bored? Are you stuck by yourself? What can I do to entertain you? Paul Kupperberg is a buddy, and, and I want him on the podcast, and he has such a bad audio setup. I sent him a headset for his birthday. I'm like, happy birthday, now we can broadcast normal. Put this on, we're gonna talk in a couple weeks. And I did, I just sent it to him a couple weeks ago or whatever. So, wow. And Anyway, so yeah, Straczynski, it was a real like 180 degrees of, I guess I'll never talk to Joe Straczynski to, wow, I got to talk to him. We talked for 90 minutes. I asked him all my Babylon 5 questions and all my Twilight Zone questions in addition to his comic work and his life. And, uh, yeah, I was very pleased with that. So yeah, there, that's, that's one. But like I said, literally, that's true. That's one of 100 that I could easily rattle off.

Well, you know, that Straczynski I always pronounce his name wrong. How— Straczynski, however you say it. Yeah, Straczynski. Yeah, I actually went out and read his, his book after that interview with him, and my goodness, talk about a man that had been through— it was just heartbreaking, the first half of that book. I mean, I was, I was almost in tears at parts. I couldn't believe some of the abuse he'd been through. So I was so glad that he came on your show because that really led me to read his book, you know, it was to find that and to find out more about him. And it— you're right, it was— it turned out wonderfully. You conducted a great interview with him for sure. And I, I should have mentioned that one because it certainly was one of my favorites as well.

Hey man, like I said, the ones you hit, I completely agree. And I'm like, oh yeah, and seriously, like, it was an honor to talk to Dana Gould. It was great talking to Max Baer. So yeah, no, and again, Marty, you know, I love Marty and I miss Marty.

Well, that's terrific. Well, and I'm glad you're going to be, uh, talking with, uh, Elliot.

Yes, Magnus too.

You're probably going to at some point talk to him about the Miracle Monday book that he wrote, uh, on Superman. Have you, have you read that one?

Oh yeah. Oh no, I read— yeah, you know, I'll be honest, I like Miracle Monday fine, but for me, Last Son of Krypton, the first book he wrote, even more so.

I thought the same thing.

Yeah, that's great, because yeah, man, I'll tell you, that one scene where Superman is just in some sort of like fever dream and, uh, Lex pulls him out of it, and he's like— and he even like was able to like in this fever dream have a conversation with Jor-El or whatever. And, uh, and Luther's like, I saved you, I can't believe I saved you. And he's like, actually, I think you finally beat me, because he took him out of this, like, moment with his father and everything and his parents. And, uh, you know, and also just what I loved about it was it was all the Bronze Age— both books, Miracle Monday as well— but all the great stuff about the Bronze Age depictions of Superman, but they really were written for a mainstream adult audience. Yeah, so, and I mean, like, and that's why, like, even Lex and Superboy being friends— and that's the, like, it's a shame that the current continuity has eliminated that. Or I don't even know where, where we are with that, because Geoff Johns has put it in slightly. I don't know if Brian acknowledges that or not. It doesn't matter, but it's a shame because that's kind of cool in that same way that Jason Todd and Bruce have that relationship where It's like this is the hero's great disappointment. And then like my favorite scene in, uh, the Great Kingdom Come comic book that Mark Waid wrote and Alex Ross drew, uh, when they're in Planet Krypton, like Planet Hollywood, all in their civilian guises. And it's Clark, uh, Lois— or Clark, Diana, Wonder Woman, and Bruce Batman having a lunch or whatever. And, uh, Batman's keeping all the villains, and, and Clark goes, hey, how's Luthor? And he goes, I caught him the other day sneaking into the Batcave trying to hack the computer and stuff. And he says, he says hello. And Superman brightens up and goes, really? And Bruce goes, no. And that's what I love. It's like, no, you dummy, of course not. But Superman wants to think of the good in everybody. So even there's like always this like hope in Superman that one day he and Lex will be friends and he'll like figure that out end. But again, it's that kind of deep thinking about the characters. Again, I love that stuff. The one I've been— my broken record of late, and I've been saying this for years, is the crazy relationship between Ben Grimm, the Thing, and Doctor Doom. Because their rivalry goes back— or not even a rivalry, but their hatred from each other stems from that same period of Reed and Doctor Doom being in college together. Because Ben was in college too, but Ben was the big man on campus the football star, and Reed and Doom were the science nerds. And I love when it's just Doctor Doom and the Thing, and he calls him Grim, but the Thing calls Doctor Doom Vic because he's Victor Von Doom. And he's like, you know something, Vic, you're still that twerpy nerd that I hated in school. And by the same token, Doom is like, Grim, you're that jerk football numbskull that I hated in college, and I still hate you today. And then they are still having that same F you kind of war between each other, even as adult men now and stuff. And it's like when people tap into that— Brian did it when he was writing at Marvel still, and I love that, I do. I just think it's the funniest thing. And Grant Morrison did it at one point in a couple stories, and it is— it's always just little moments of just like, like the Thing, like before he's about to like wail on him, just like like, you know, Vic, like, I'm so tired of your act. We've been doing this since college. We've been doing this dance since college. I am not impressed with you, ruler of the world. Yeah. So, yeah.

Well, man, there's, you know, now that we're actually diving into actual comic conversation, I feel like we could go on and on, but you have been so generous with your time and I really appreciate it today. I do want to ask you about one final thing before we end our—

Yeah, whatever works for you time-wise, man. I don't want to keep you forever either, but No, I'm sorry, I ramble, I apologize.

No, no, this is, you know what, it's why I love your show and I really enjoy it. It makes for a really easy interview when the guest talks, for sure. But no, again, it's just the John Suntras fan club here today, for sure. So I'm enjoying every word of it. But I did just want to, as we start closing out on my end of the show today, How cool is it to actually be a character in the Marvel Universe as Principal Sunress? I wonder if— because I mentioned that at the beginning of the show and we didn't really go into it there— I wonder if you could enlighten our listeners a little bit about that and kind of how it came about.

It was the most delightful surprise and gift that Brian Bendis could ever give me. It started when Stuart Immonen was still drawing the book, and the character initially didn't look like me. But was named after me. And it was when— in Ultimate Spider-Man, when Peter Parker was still Ultimate Spider-Man before the creation of Miles Morales. But I did make a cameo with Miles. But yeah, it was insane to the point where after Ultimatum, I believe, was the event that the massive flood and tidal wave that like wiped out a lot of New York, and some of the X-Men were displaced and— and I'm blanking on— I know Iceman was one, and I don't remember if it was Firestar or if it was Kitty Pryde. Maybe it was Kitty. But they had nowhere to go because the X-Men— Xavier's mansion was wiped out. And so they stayed with Peter. And so Aunt May had to go to the school and let the principal know that Peter's cousins need to be enrolled in the school. And it's this great intense scene that goes on for a couple pages.— and it's great because it's so classically comic book-y where Principal Sunress leans in to Aunt May and goes, "Look, I don't know what's going on. I don't know if your nephew is or isn't Spider-Man, and frankly, I don't want to know because I've got a school to protect and a student body to protect." And it was great because it felt very authentic to the way I would be. And then other artists would come on the book, and all of a sudden there's like a lunchroom fight going on. And I have to break it up. I do. Principal Sunburst is my doppelganger, and Sarah Pascieli draws me. Or there was a scene where the PTA is yelling at the principal, and you're not doing enough to protect our children. All these strange supervillains keep coming and attacking the school, and he just yells at them. And really, he's yelling at Aunt May in terms of, hey, keep your— you know, the responsibility with your children, you know, starts and finishes with you. It's your job. And he's saying to the crowd But he's really saying it to Aunt May, and Aunt May is like, "Yeah, I understand he's talking to me." But as my buddy Josh Flanagan from iFanboy said, he goes, "Man, your scene, Principal Such-and-Scene," he goes, "That was like 6 pages!" I'm like, "I know, it's insane." So I have— I don't have any original art from it. I really should bug the guys and women and Sarah and see if they still have pages. But I do have the collected editions of those stories. And Brian, of course, has been hilarious. And then it was hilarious because then they do an Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, and Clark Gregg as Agent Coulson is placed in Peter's school to be the principal and keep an eye on Spider-Man and stuff. And I get all these hilarious, like, listener emails or messages like, oh man, they took your job away from you, man. Clark Gregg doesn't even have acting gigs. And I'm like, guys, 'Come on.' I'm like, 'I know, it's fine, it's okay, it's all right.' And I've never met Clark Gregg, but I would love to tell him that story one day. But no, it was ridiculous. And, you know, oh yeah, and then, then, yeah, with Chris Somni drawing, there was like one last little thing because after that PTA thing, Principal Sanchez quits. But, um, yeah, there's a scene where, uh, Miles is, uh, like on some, you know, crawling on a wall of some, like, you know penthouse apartment or whatever, and he crashes through and it's my apartment and I'm in my bathrobe and I'm watching— apparently I'm watching Girls Gone Wild, which I would not do, but I do think it's hilarious. That's how I'm being depicted. And so, oh no, yeah, so he sees Spider-Man and it's Miles and he's like, uh, hi, and has no idea who he is. And of course my character faints, so I survived the flood. That's the good news. So, but I don't know if the worlds have merged, if, uh, Principal Suntra still exists in the Marvel Universe or not. But yeah, I should I should ask Joe Rubinstein to draw me for my official Marvel Handbook page as a character. Absolutely.

Well, and what would be even greater is now that Brian Bendis is writing for DC, maybe there'll be an iteration over there somehow.

Well, when Mike Norton was drawing, of all books, one of my favorite teams, the Justice Society— I can't remember. Oh, I think Guggenheim was writing. I think Mark Guggenheim time, but there was a mayor of a city that the JSA was based in, and it looks like me. And I have— do have those original pages. And Mike, Mike absolutely— of course it's you. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. So I do exist in the DC Universe as this, uh, corrupt mayor of whatever town. So always a villain, never, uh, never a hero. I mean, I don't know, I bet it should put me— make me Bouncing Boy for the Legion. I'd be a good model for Bouncing Boy. I'm actually— now that I think of it, I'm gonna have to text him and say, hey, Hey, before you wrap up and everything, can you make sure whoever's drawing Legion that they make it look like me for Bouncing Boy?

That's right.

It should be Bouncing Boy.

Well, that would be amazing. Well, John, I just want to thank you again for being my guest today on this show and letting our listeners find out more about you, more about some of the great conversations. I know that many people listening today, maybe they'll go over and check out Word Balloon. It's a great podcast. I really enjoy the conversations you have there. Want to make one more plug for patreon.com/wordballoon where you can go and support John, and especially if you're digging what he's doing. Again, I know these are hard times, it's affected all of us, but again, if you're able to help John in any way, I just think that would be a first-class thing to do to all of our listeners. So as I say to my guests each week here on the show, John Suntris, thank you for being one of the voices in my head this Rick, you honor me with the invitation.

Thank you for letting me tell my story, and thank you for your support of the show and what I try to do, and, and the nice plugs for what I'm doing Patreon-wise. No, it's a, it's a pleasure to talk to you. If you, if you need another session for another Voice in Your Head, I'd be happy to come back.

Definitely would love to do that. All right, well, you take care.

Thanks a lot, Rick.

Thank you for joining me here this week on Voices in My Head. I hope you'll visit me on my website at rickleejames.com, where you can find out more about me, get my music on vinyl and CD, follow my blog, and even schedule me for a concert or a speaking engagement. Better yet, even a book signing in your neighborhood. You can find all that and more at rickleejames.com. Also, it would mean a great deal to me if you could write a review of this podcast on iTunes. The more positive reviews that we receive, the more visible this podcast will be online. And now for the benediction: May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. God bless you, and thank you for listening to Voices in My Head.